Hillary Clinton's private email scandal

Former secretary of state used to deplore the evils of 'secrecy'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 5, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I will. Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and she runs laps on a coaster, it's Dana Perino. This is "The Five."

Hillary Clinton conducted all -- not some, but all -- of her government business on a personal e-mail account. It's shocking. This from someone who deplores the evils of secrecy"


THEN-SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON, D-N.Y.: We know about the secret wiretaps. We know about the secret military tribunals, the secret White House e-mail accounts. It's a stunning record of secrecy and corruption, of cronyism, run amok. It is everything our founders were afraid of, everything our Constitution was designed to prevent.


GUTFELD: It's like a warm butter. I'd say it's the pot calling the kettle black, but it's more like the kettle smoking pot then blacking out. A Clinton using a false scandal to decry cronyism and secrecy, that's like squirrels decrying nuts, kittens condemning cuteness, Al Sharpton trashing tracksuits.

If there were classified e-mails on her account, then she broke the law, which for a Clinton is breathing. But at least Jon Stewart has her back. Cut her some slack, he says, because she's old:


JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: Against the law not to have e-mail account? It seems less of a scandal and more of like a nerd snap. Like, oh, she's so old, she doesn't even have an official e-mail account.


GUTFELD: Funny, except that this bumbling golden girl created a secret home e-mail system under the name "Eric Hoteham," an anagram for "HRC at home." It's also an anagram for "arch hotime," which sounds like a night on Jeffrey Epstein's jet.

And that secret system is where those 55,000 pages of e-mails came from, that's not bad for Grandma Clampett. Even more, she tweets. I thought Dowager Grantham was too old to get the Net. In the tweet she says, "I want the public to see my e-mail. I asked State to release them." Does she think we are idiots? She's talking about the e-mails she handed over, not the ones that she stole. That's like offering a plate of ribs, when all that's left of the bones. It is a jar of pickles with just the juice. It is all pants suit, no cattle. No wonder the Dems are offering our less covered than the G-strings found under Bill Clinton's bed.


GUTFELD: She's as crooked as his -- well let's just say she is crooked.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh.

GUTFELD: Alright. K.G --

GUILFOYLE: I knew it. Oh, God. Why it is me?

GUTFELD: This is pact (ph) like to punish you.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, God. I was trying to hide.

GUTFELD: OK. The real hilarity here.


GUTFELD: Is her tweet. I'm sorry, don't cry. Her tweet, in which she says she wants to hand over --


GUTFELD: The e-mails that were already picked over by her staff. That is nuts.

GUILFOYLE: It's nothing left. It's just bones, like the fourth of July, chicken wing eating contest. There's nothing. No carcass left to it. That's already been screened through by the minions.


GUILFOYLE: In some basement somewhere to determine what's nothing about nothing. It's like the empty headed subject missing, e-mail body missing.


GUILFOYLE: There's nothing that's gonna be gained from that, but she gets the appearance that she is being transparent and forthcoming and complying.


GUILFOYLE: And if only the State Department could get their act together, now that she's gone, then we can really put this behind us.

GUTFELD: Well, I know you think this is no big deal, because that's what they pay to you think. She set up this system for this reason, to cordon of the e-mails that might be unflattering so then later, she can pick them out. Doesn't that make sense?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: And if you're conspiracy minded, yep. I think that's right.

GUTFELD: Who told you to say that, Juan?

WILLIAMS: You did.


WILLIAMS: But I -- you know, I mean basically, look, she's wrong. I mean there's just no getting away from it. The question is whether she broke the law. I'm not sure about that. She certainly was told that she is supposed to have a State Department e-mail account. And yesterday, I was at the White House, had a lunch with, you know, the -- not a lunch, but a meeting with the president.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Oh, OK. Now we're getting. WILLIAMS: And there -- there -- saying yesterday, there's radio silence on this topic, because the White House told all the cabinet officers about the standards that they set --


WILLIAMS: For the records act, the Federal Records Act, and it requires some transparency and the ability to retrieve it. Now that's where the legality comes in. You know, you do have the ability to retrieve these e- mails. You can't. You're arguing.

ERIC BOLLING, THE FIVE SHOW HOST: But wait, wait, wait.

WILLIAMS: That you can pick them over first and only give up what you want.

GUTFELD: Yeah, what they gave up for (inaudible)

BOLLING: You can actually change out your servers that you have your own servers in your own house. You change them out, those e-mails they don't want picked over --


BOLLING: Or seen can be gone forever, and that there lies the problem. Did you hear Marie Harf yesterday say this, "but 55,000 is a lot of e-mails."


BOLLING: She said that. I'm -- wow.


BOLLING: Wow. Wow. OK, so it's 100,000, so as 1 million, or -- the 10 that you don't want us to see.


BOLLING: That's -- and therein lies part of the problem. She thinks -- they think, the Clinton's, both of them, think they are above the law. They think the law.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I do.

BOLLING: Is gonna apply to them. I -- Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, it goes on and on. The commodities scandal, that she somehow mysteriously made winning, trades on every single one of her trades, which is probably statistically impossible. They just think that these laws --

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. I thought that's what you did?

BOLLING: No, no. I aid a lot of lose.

PERINO: You have lost?

BOLLING: I have a lot of wins and a lot of lose, but she was like -- an amazing trader. But for some reason, because of all those five I just mentioned and they never stuck to her, she probably thinks this e-mail thing is gonna to stick to her, but --


BOLLING: I like to keep talking about it.

GUTFELD: Yeah, the only problem.


GUTFELD: With a lot of those scandals, stuff like Vince Foster was overreach. We get a little greedy here, you know?

BOLLING: Maybe, Vince Foster but -- certainly not Travelgate.

GUTFELD: Yeah. BOLLING: Can we --


BOLLING: Agree on that one?

GUTFELD: We will split the difference. Dana, you are closing in on 70 and yet you tweet --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: It feels great though.

GUTFELD: You do. You tweet every day, you know how to use a computer, do you buy Jon Stewart's -- oh, she's old defense? She doesn't -- she could not pass, she doesn't -- didn't know how to use e-mail?

PERINO: Well, that might be believable if the State Department hadn't gone at -- to great lengths to show her in several different pictures how she was so hip and ahead of this --

GUTFELD: Yes, with her Blackberry.

PERINO: How she use her phone.


PERINO: Have you just have to a thought experiment, with Jon Stewart and the -- anyone else -- not anyone else on the left, because there are some people on the left who are saying, whoa, like Ruth Marcus at the Washington Post.


PERINO: She has an additional 13 questions for Hillary Clinton today, that's worth looking at. Just a thought experiment, if you were to search and replace all these news stories, and took out Hillary Clinton name and put in Vice President Dick Cheney --


PERINO: Pulitzers would be won by The New York Times and The Washington Post, and there -- I mean, there would be a frenzy of activity saying, we knew it, we knew it all along, he is secretive -- person that's hiding information from us.

GUTFELD: Why don't they do that then? That would be no one would call them on it, if the press did that.

PERINO: They wouldn't.


PERINO: The other thing that's happening right now, I think the reason the White House is being radio silent, and they are being smart to is that, everyone's going to have to lawyer up here pretty quickly, because the -- a black and white issue, you have to do official government --


PERINO: Activity on official government accounts. Don't just take it from the House Republicans. The associated press is ready now to file a lawsuit, because they've had a freedom of information request into the Clinton -- the State Department, asking for information about Huma Abedin, the aide --



PERINO: Remember Anthony Weiner's wife --

GUILFOYLE: You mentioned like that.

PERINO: To say.

BOLLING: And for the spokesperson (ph)

PERINO: And the spokesperson. And they've been stalled on that. And then said that, we don't have anything, well now the AP is saying, how can you say you don't have anything? You didn't have anything to look at.


PERINO: And the other thing about the White House is that they say, well, you know, we told them that they needed to have -- to be in compliance, but I find it very hard to believe that Hillary Clinton, or her team, didn't -- never sent an e-mail to the White House. That -- does it raise --

GUILFOYLE: President Obama.


PERINO: I mean, it doesn't raise it comes to a red flag.


PERINO: Whoa, why isn't this on a e-mail? Like what --


PERINO: Why is this coming from, the Hotenham?

GUTFELD: Hotemham.

PERINO: What is that?

GUTFELD: Yeah. Well, it's a Clinton, but I don't know what that name is, but it was a clever anagram. Speaking of critics, I want to roll this tape, This David Axelrod -- basically saying that Hillary has to answer some questions.


DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: It would be good to get out there and answer these questions, why did she use a separate e-mail? How did she secure that e-mail? Was there another e-mail through which she -- through which she communicated with people? By not answering these questions, they are allowing the story to fester in ways that are unhelpful and so, you know lack of speed kills in this case.


GUTFELD: Kimberly, that phone call was from his missing mustache.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

GUTFELD: It's interesting, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: It wants to get back on his face.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Do you --


GUTFELD: Do you think that this all some kind of weird karaoke journalism, that everybody is getting the scandal out in front now, so they can all climb into bed with Hillary when it really matters, when the election -- when the election starts coming, you know, that they can get behind her? Right now, they are acting like they are objective.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I think what they are doing is probably trying to test the water, get everything out there and see if she can still withstand the scrutiny --


GUILFOYLE: And the scandal, because they don't want to lose. They've gotten cozy in the White House and in D.C. and they don't want to give it over to the Republicans. So, if she's not gonna be able to make it, she doesn't have the legs to go the distance, then they want to find someone who does.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait. Wait, hold on.

GUILFOYLE: Let's see.

WILLIAMS: You guys are --


WILLIAMS: You guys are -- don't even want to say, hey, The New York Times broke this story?

GUTFELD: Yes, but I think --

WILLIAMS: Oh my, goodness gracious.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I give credit --

WILLIAMS: It's The New York Times.

GUTFELD: I gave them credit yesterday.

WILLIAMS: The liberal --

GUILFOYLE: No, he gave them credit.

WILLIAMS: The communist --

GUILFOYLE: That was yesterday.

WILLIAMS: But wait a second. And what about The Wall Street Journal? They broke the foundation story that feeds into the thinking the Clinton's act as if they are entitled, they can have their own set of rules. I would think you guys would be saying, hey, mainstream press, go.

GUILFOYLE: We didn't.

GUTFELD: But we don't do that here, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.


PERINO: I think -- The Washington Post piece on the Clinton's foundation accepting foreign money --

GUILFOYLE: While she --

PERINO: While she was secretary of state. I think that is a huge story.


BOLLING: There's another story that was bubbling up this afternoon, that Hillary's brother Tony --


BOLLING: Received one of two permits for gold mining in Haiti. Apparently, in the aftermath of Haiti receiving billions of dollars after Hillary Clinton visited Haiti and made the promise of billions of dollars. Now, I don't --

PERINO: Duck, duck.


BOLLING: Again, that needs to be fact check that just started to bubble up this afternoon, if that comes true, everything seems to have a string attached to it.

WILLIAMS: Well you know the funny thing --

BOLLING: Everything has a string.

WILLIAMS: The funny thing from a democratic perspective is, Hillary Clinton has no opposition.

GUTFELD: That's the next question.

WILLIAMS: And here she is. She is suffering self-inflicted wound after wound. You just think.


WILLIAMS: It's like, what is going on? Why is this happening? I mean, arguably look, you know, Colin Powell had a private e-mail account maybe. I think Madeleine Albright might have had one. I mean, you know, and there are different rules, but the way it hits is that you're just feeding the opposition. You are just saying, you know, there's something wrong here. She is always above the law. She is always getting away with something, it just doesn't help her.

GUTFELD: And the media matter is imploding. They are imploding. They are just -- they are killing their best to defend Hillary, and it makes me think that the Democrats are starting to think about --

PERINO: Hillary (ph)

GUTFELD: Yeah. Who is her backup?


GUILFOYLE: It's Biden. He's like flowers in the attic. He's waiting upstairs for someone to rescue him and give him a call --


GUILFOYLE: For real life.

GUTFELD: Wait. He's more like --

PERINO: V.C. Andrews.

GUTFELD: Anthony Perkins' mother in Psycho.

PERINO: God. I mean.

WILLIAMS: Hey, hey, hey.

PERINO: Kudos on the VC Andrews --

GUTFELD: I love Biden.

PERINO: Reference, very nice.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice.

PERINO: Can I add one other thing?


PERINO: That the spokesperson's worst nightmare is when this starts getting in the technicalities. So additional -- additional reporting today, about how these -- how the server was set up, how it wasn't secure and starting to get into the very technical details. And as spokespersons, they are starting to try to answer those. Believe me, you will lose that game. And so the best thing to do is actually try to figure out how to not have to answer that and turn it over to the experts. The problem with the Hillary campaign is that they have had all the time in the world, with all this information at their fingertips that they knew it was coming, and they were totally unprepared and that's why the Democrats are really worried.

GUTFELD: Yeah. And perhaps it's the most damaging when you have a problem, not to say anything.

PERINO: Right.


WILLIAMS: But what do you think about today, when she says, hey, take a look.


PERINO: But she doesn't say that's so --

GUTFELD: That's fake.

PERINO: That is so --

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's fake.

GUTFELD: No, because she is talking about the stuff.

PERINO: Not all -- worst.

GUTFELD: That's already out there --


GUTFELD: That she had already removed --

GUILFOYLE: They already edited.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's your conspiracy theory.

PERINO: No, it's not.

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

PERINO: It's true.

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

WILLIAMS: How do you know? Is she removed what? I mean what --

PERINO: No, no, no, because -- because they actually, they said that, in the New York Times piece.

GUILFOYLE: She went through that article.

PERINO: They said they had somebody at the -- from the Clinton foundation who was going through her personal e-mails and deciding what was official and what was not and want to send to the State Department or not.

WILLIAMS: That was the 55,000, right?

PERINO: But what she is saying is that --


PERINO: What they -- she saying but --

WILLIAMS: But now they are saying -- now Harf is saying they are sending more I thought, right?

BOLLING: It got all or more?

WILLIAMS: That's what I think. I don't know.

BOLLING: All is relevant, more is not.


WILLIAMS: And that is --

PERINO: And the other thing Harf said is that there are -- she never conducted any classified business.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's right.

PERINO: On her computer and believe me.

GUTFELD: Which -- impossible.

PERINO: That's the worst thing to say, because it will just take one e-mail to show that she is wrong.

GUILFOYLE: And they have what? Somebody from the Clinton foundation.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Going through the e-mails that are private State Department -- I mean -- oh, paid for, the employee paid for by foreign donation? Love it.


PERINO: Kimberly, you could prosecute this case?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Hello, people rest within three minutes.

WILLIAMS: Greg, is that --


WILLIAMS: Are you going through those e-mails?

GUTFELD: Yes, I am.

WILLIAMS: That's your new job.

GUTFELD: Exactly, yes. Remember, was it The New York Times or Washington Post that actually enlisted viewers to go through Sarah Palin's e-mails.

PERINO: The crowds (ph) post. No it's Washington Post.

GUTFELD: Remember that?

PERINO: Remember --

GUTFELD: That they would never do that here though, that would just be unbecoming of a statesman or stateswoman. I don't know what I'm saying. Ahead, the Justice Department admits the hands up, don't shoot narrative from the Ferguson protest was a myth. Eric Holder explains, next.


GUILFOYLE: Hands up, don't shoot, it was a rallying cry of Ferguson protesters like Al Sharpton following the death of Michael Brown.


AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: If you're angry, throw your arms up. If you want justice, throw your arms up. If you want anticipates (ph), throw your arms up, because that's the sign Michael was using. He had a surrender sign.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, that's right.

SHARPTON: That's the sign you got to deal with. Don't make up, no sign. Deal with the last sign he shown.


GUILFOYLE: We got a problem. Because the narrative that police officer Darren Wilson killed Brown while surrendering was a lie, based on false witness accounts. Even outgoing Attorney General Eric Holder was forced to admit it when he announced the Justice Department cleared Wilson of wrong doing yesterday.


ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I recognize that the findings in our report may leave some to wonder how the department's findings can differ so sharply, from some of the initial, widely reported accounts of what transpired. Yet it remains, not only valid, but essential to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly and to be accepted so readily.


GUILFOYLE: OK. Rush to judgment, anybody? Juan?

WILLIAMS: Why do you say? I mean.

GUTFELD: Because --

WILLIAMS: By the protesters --

GUILFOYLE: They rushed to judgment against the officer with a false narrative, a flat-out lie.

WILLIAMS: What's the lie?

GUILFOYLE: That Michael Brown had raise his hands, don't shoot and that was not the point.

WILLIAMS: No, I think --

GUILFOYLE: By any of the press or something (ph)

WILLIAMS: I think what the report says --

GUILFOYLE: Or the forensics.

WILLIAMS: He raised his hand and the question is, did he say don't shoot?


WILLIAMS: And apparently, he didn't. They don't have any evidence that he said that, Right? And -- but I think that what you're missing here is --

GUILFOYLE: No, there's no evidence.

WILLIAMS: It became a symbol --

GUILFOYLE: Of him raising his hands either.

WILLIAMS: I think there's -- I think they say -- several people said he raised his hands.

BOLLING: No, no. Several people.


BOLLING: Did say --

GUILFOYLE: (inaudible) account.

BOLLING: He did. But --

PERINO: They lied.


BOLLING: But they did lie. They found that -- the justice -- believe me, if there was evidence of that the Justice Department wouldn't have their calling Eric. Eric Holder wouldn't have made that comment right there. They did find out, there was highly unlikely his arms were raised in the surrender position. Forget what he said, don't shoot.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I thought that was the heart and soul.

BOLLING: The surrender issue. But Kimberly -- they jumped to a conclusion, they didn't wait for the facts to come out -- they even heard the facts. Remember, during the trial that we --


BOLLING: Or the -- the initial indictment, remember the prosecutor talked about it. He said --

GUILFOYLE: Grand jury.

BOLLING: Grand jury. There was enough evidence to at least question whether -- they didn't care though. It was good TV. It was good Al Sharpton moments. The visual of this was working for them. They run with it, TV run with it, because it worked for them, too, and now, we find out it was all based on a lie. Tawana Brawley, (inaudible) Cross, it was on and on. The media sees a good visual on TV and they have a good victim, they are gonna run with it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Dana.

PERINO: It became the symbol of the moment, right? So it wasn't just the protesters themselves that were in Missouri or Al Sharpton. This happened at the -- at one of the Hollywood awards programs, football games, if you remember.


PERINO: The football players during the playoffs. News programs, there was t-shirts that were made. It's like a whole movement.

GUILFOYLE: Romney (ph)

PERINO: Was designed around an -- act that didn't happen. And it didn't matter that you could sell like -- that actually didn't happen as based on a false account, now you have the Justice Department saying that. I still think that some people will use it because they think that it is a good symbol for the struggle.


BOLLING: I'm sorry -- can I just add something?

GUILFOYLE: For black lives matter.

BOLLING: They -- That was a symbol prior to Ferguson, though. Black activists have used hands up, don't shoot in prior protests. And they applied it to Ferguson, because it was convenient and it worked for them.

GUTFELD: He did the -- the most disturbing part of Holder's talk was, admitting that the story was false, but the fact that it was so easily believed makes the falsity irrelevant, and this happens a lot when somebody says that there was a rape and it wasn't a rape. He says, well, it doesn't matter because there are rapes happening everywhere. So even if the story is false, somewhere it's happening.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: So never mind that this lie.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Was pushed by a cult of media and activists who made it sound like it actually happened, and what that did. So what are the consequences? It becomes a symbol but it becomes something else. It created a toxic environment that created a growing hatred for cops that generated the death of two police officers in Brooklyn. They were shot dead because of a phenomenon of an anti-cop hate tidal wave. And cops by the way, in New York City, which are more minority than white, have saved more black lives than Eric Holder, than Barack Obama, than Al Sharpton ever will.

BOLLING: De Blasio?

GUILFOYLE: And tell that too, to the family members of the two officers.


GUILFOYLE: That were murdered in cold blood, because.

GUTFELD: Mike (ph) has consequence.

GUIFOYLE: Of this race-baiting.

PERINO: For the --

WILLIAMS: Excuse me --

PERINO: The other thing that happened is it created frenzy --


PERINO: So that it required then the Department of Justice to try to calm things down and also politically to say, no, no, no, we are gonna get involved here, we're gonna try, we're gonna prosecute, believe us, we're gonna come in, and we're gonna fight -- they turns out on almost every time Eric Holder said, we're gonna go in, we're gonna prosecute, they actually end up disappointing the very people they were trying to placate.


WILLIAMS: Isn't that evidence that in fact, the Holder Justice Department did their job?

GUTFELD: Well, Juan --


BOLLING: A little slow, Juan, right?

PERINO: No, but like --

WILLIAMS: Look, but they did their job.

BOLLING: Yeah. You have a couple of cops are dead after.


GUILFOYLE: They help doing decided though. (ph)

WILLIAMS: This means -- by the way, I was gonna say that Greg --

BOLLING: They're going faster.

WILLIAMS: Greg, that guy who killed the cops here in New York, I think he was mentally unstable. I mean he was --

GUTFELD: Well, he was like --

WILLIAMS: A crazy person.

GUTFELD: He was two things. He was mentally unstable and he was at the protests.


PERINO: And who is by the --

WILLIAMS: No, no. He wasn't involved in the protests.

GUTFELD: And he's on -- he was on Facebook --

WILLIAMS: He was watching the protests. And you say he was at the protests, you make people think he was in the protest.

GUTFELD: He was advocate. So let's --

WILLIAMS: But I'm saying --

GUTFELD: Let's split hairs. When somebody is at a protest, they are just watching?

WILLIAMS: He came to watch.

GUTFELD: He was there and he was there and then he went on Facebook.


GUTFELD: But here's -- I want to propose an experiment. One Democrat suggested getting rid of the entire police force in Ferguson. Why don't you do that, as an experiment, try the city without a police force. In 48 hours, it will make --

WILLIAMS: Everybody --


WILLIAMS: Well, I can tell you what --

GUTFELD: At front and center.

WILLIAMS: I can tell you who want the police back first, is the black folks and especially the poor black folks. But --

GUILFOYLE: Because --

WILLIAMS: Let me just say this to you. Here is the interesting thing to me about this report, which is all of you ignored the idea that the police in Ferguson were found to have systematically engaged in racially -- you know, ticketing people, the court system went after people, they were basing the city's revenues --

GUTFELD: I would --

WILLIAMS: On really extorting. I think money out of poor black people.


GUTFELD: You know what that is? That's -- we are turning the police force into armed billing -- billing companies. They have to go and make budget. So, that happens in every city. They are all --

WILLIAMS: But they are picking here on the poorest black people in Ferguson. And do you think that contributed to some of the animosity?

BOLLING: And there's -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think so.

BOLLING: There are firings.

WILLIAMS: OK. But it was good.

PERINO: Right, but you're right.

BOLLING: But they fired people and --

GUILFOYLE: And there's right, right?

BOLLING: No, no. There's no doubt.

GUILFOYLE: There's accountability coming out of it.

BOLLING: I didn't saying that we are ignoring it. We're -- I don't think anyone is --

WILLIAMS: Well, no. I think, look, I think you guys.


WILLIAMS: Have a big point to make and I -- really think you're right. So many people went with the hands up, don't shoot, and it wasn't true, as displayed, as said to be the case. I'm not sure about the hands up, but I'm sure about the, don't shoot now after reading the Justice Department report.

GUILFOYLE: And it was good. And there were inconsistencies in the statement.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

GUILFOYLE: When confronted by cross-examination, there were admissions that they lied.


GUILFOYLE: It's false.

WILLIAMS: But I'm saying that --

GUILFOYLE: It's like narrative.

WILLIAMS: OK. But I'm saying that the larger point to me coming out of this report is, here we have the police, are no roaming (ph) white police department and said, oh yeah we can make money, just go after this poor.

GUILFOYLE: Alright, Eric.

WILLIAMS: Black people that have no political voice are now.

GUILFOYLE: But you know that wasn't the fact pattern with respect to this circumstance. The truth, the reality --


BOLLING: Out in the street --

GUILFOYLE: That this young man committed a strong armed robbery.



BOLLING: I was called the larger point. I'm not sure that's the larger point. I think the larger point may be that -- people across the country use the hands up, don't shoot, to protest in Oakland, to protest in New York, to protest --

WILLIAMS: Let me just add --

BOLLING: Protested, and people were hurt.

WILLIAMS: If you and your neighborhood --


WILLIAMS: If you and your son and your wife and your neighborhood couldn't go down the street without fearing some cop is gonna harass you and give you a ticket for no reason?

BOLLING: I know --



GUILFOYLE: OK. Already did the billing thing. You know. OK.

GUTFELD: You do you realize that the police officer doing the best work in minority neighborhoods and NYPD, they are reducing deaths by the thousands.

WILLIAMS: No. But we agree?

GUTFELD: And there's been --

PERINO: Who now?

GUTFELD: Who is largely saving, black lives.

WILLIAMS: We agree. I'm talking about --

GUILFOYLE: Because we all agree, black lives matter, all lives matter.

WILLIAMS: God bless.

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, the Obama administration is targeting one of the most popular bullets in America with the excuse that it endangers our police. But, the largest police organization in the United States isn't concerned about the ammo, next.



BOLLING: The Obama administration is looking to ban the most popular ammunition for the most popular rifle in America, the AR-15. The White House insists a ban on the M-855 ammo would be in the best interests of law enforcement. Listen.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Everyone should agree that if there are armor-piercing bullets available that can fit into easily concealed weapons that it puts our law enforcement at considerably more risk.


BOLLING: But the world's largest group of sworn law enforcement officers disagrees. James Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police says this specific round has historically not posed a law enforcement problem. He says it's most used for target practice.

Many of my fellow gun advocates warn that this is a backdoor attempt by the administration to render the AR-15 and, down the road, other guns, useless.

The proposed ammo ban has also drawn the ire of the NRA, especially executive director Chris Cox. Last night, he warned that the president's Constitutional overreach would and could extend beyond the Second Amendment.


CHRIS COX, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NRA: This president hates guns. He always has. He doesn't care for the Constitution. He says he's got a cell phone and his pen, and he's going to ignore it.

Well, we can't do much about his hatred, but we can do something about trying to dismantle the Second Amendment. If this president can pick up his phone and use his pen and ban ammunition, go after the Second Amendment, undermine the Second Amendment, he can do it to the rest of the Constitution, and that ought to concern everybody.


BOLLING: Juan, I want to start with you, because last week, you were concerned about the law enforcement.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

BOLLING: And then we have the Police Officers' Union telling us it's not a problem. They said there's no reason to ban that ammo.

WILLIAMS: No. They said they don't see it necessarily as being used to target police, and I think that's probably true. But what you see from chiefs of police nationwide, as well as Secret Service and FBI, is that they have said on the record that they think this is an armor-piercing, steel-tipped bullet, the green-tipped bullets, that pose a danger to police.

BOLLING: So, let me take it one step further, Dana. If they go ahead and ban this ammo, another ammo will be used. Someone will develop another ammunition, they going to go ahead and ban that one? In fact, isn't that what they...

PERINO: I think that's what the NRA was trying to say. I don't think he was trying to say other parts of the Constitution would fall apart like the First Amendment, but I do think that you let this one happen. That's why the NRA fights so hard, right? Because if this is a situation where the administration is looking for a problem to solve rather than solving an actual problem, then, yes, of course I think the constitutional question would be raised.

BOLLING: Greg, there is an issue with the green-tip, Juan points out. But listen, I have some research that says that's not necessarily the case. I'll look it up. Go ahead, Greg, you want to take it?

GUTFELD: Here's the point. They're removing a huge source of cheap ammunition, which is to make ammunition more expensive, because of scarcity. That raises the cost of gun ownership. This is if you can't ban the gun, you ban the bullet.

But it does not -- and no one can say it does -- it does not reduce crime. It does not reduce murders. It does not reduce violence by acting in this manner.

This, in an odd way, is an attack on the poor, because they can no longer afford bullets.

Also, homicides are up 20 percent in New York City, and I don't think you can link that to these bullets. That's not a hypothetical crime waiting to happen. Those homicides are real. They are happening now.

And what is the link to that? Could it be stop and frisk? Could it be the most progressive mayor we've ever had, who claims to be for the minorities, but yet more and more minorities are being shot since he's been mayor. That's kind of interesting.

I think we should raise the price of golf balls. They're dangerous. Go back, get President Obama. So he's got to spend more money on his golf balls. Raise the price of bars. Green-tip rounds classified as armor piercing in 1986 because a steel penetrator is what was considered in the corps, but they also said that's no longer necessary.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. That is correct.

WILLIAMS: No longer steel in the core?

BOLLING: That there are other -- there are a lot of other bullets that would have the same classification. So you're going to start...

GUILFOYLE: The same capacity.

BOLLING: ... banning a whole slew of ammunition.

GUILFOYLE: But that's the idea. And that's what he's doing. So it is an attack on the Second Amendment.

And since President Obama came in in 2008, there's been hundreds of millions in sales in this kind of ammunition and in AR-15s. So he's just eventually helped more guns be sold by this hysteria that he's done.

And good luck to the Democratic candidates in blue states that like to hunt. Big problem for them to go back and explain to their constituents that they support this kind of conduct from the president.

WILLIAMS: So, let me get this straight. You think the president's doing this?

GUILFOYLE: The president, for sure, supporting.

BOLLING: But the president is doing this.

WILLIAMS: No. ATF is doing this. The Justice Department are the ones who are promulgating...

BOLLING: Same thing. The president leads on the EPA or the ATF, and they change a regulation.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly was just saying, there is a hysteria and it leads to all these sales, because, oh, President Obama's going to take your gun, going to take -- President Obama has -- President Obama's too chicken to take anybody's gun because he thinks about the political fallout.


WILLIAMS: The reality is you have made an argument just a moment ago for gun control, especially big cities. I don't mention it.

GUTFELD: You know what it is? It's not taking the guns away; it's turning the guns into a club.

WILLIAMS: Well, whatever. But I'm saying the paranoia feeds this notion, better go get my bullets today. My goodness.

BOLLING: We got to leave it. So now hunters can't get their bullets, but bad guys can get still them on the black market.

All right. Coming up, how can you land a job working for the founder of Facebook? Mark Zuckerberg's hiring secret, coming up.


PERINO: All right. What does it take to get a job at one of the world's most popular companies? Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg reveals his secret to acing an interview with him.


MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: I developed over time a simple rule, which is that I will only hire someone to work directly for me if I would work for that person. I think as long as you have that as your role, as your rule for picking the people that you work with, you're not going to go wrong. I think this rule has served me pretty well.


PERINO: I say probably serve him well; he's got 10,000 employees.

Greg, you think that's a good practice?

GUTFELD: I do that when dating.

PERINO: You only date...

GUTFELD: I only date people that will date me. This is stupid.

PERINO: You're married.

GUTFELD: I know I'm married. I'm kidding.

This is stupid. He can say this, because he's young and most of his hires are older than him. But it's like it's really hard when you're interviewing an entry-level person, you're going, "Could I work for this person who's chewing gum?"

But you know, he does have -- he makes a good point. What he's talking about is character. You look at people who are honest and hard- working, who have a realistic ego, who don't have a chip on their shoulder, who don't come off as entitled. Those are the people that you look for when you're hiring. Don't want something that's going to be negative.

Generally, negative in a job comes from someone who feels entitled. Always.

PERINO: That's interesting. You've hired people. Did you have a motto, like did you have, like, a bar they had to clear to work for you?

BOLLING: As far as, what, intelligence or...?

PERINO: Whatever.

BOLLING: No, I typically hired people who either came from sports backgrounds or military backgrounds, because of the discipline. What I was doing required a ton of discipline.


BOLLING: Not what he is doing; it doesn't require that much discipline. I think the most interesting thing of this whole thing...

GUTFELD: Wait, he doesn't -- Zuckerman? Facebook?

PERINO: Zuckerberg.

GUTFELD: Zuckerberg doesn't require discipline?

BOLLING: I don't think so. I think what he was pointing out -- he even says himself, intelligence isn't even a commodity anymore in startups and dotcoms, and successful businesses. He says relationships.

So if you're able to get along with people, it's more important than being smarter than the next guy because -- because intelligence has become so commoditized, everyone has access to almost the same level of intellect. I think that's interesting.

As far as what I did, it was all about straight money management. If you can't take the loss fast, you're going to get thrown out and lose a lot of money. So our thing was just stay disciplined.

Look, look, he's in a T-shirt. The campuses at Google, Facebook, Apple, are gorgeous. No one has a tie. They're all kicking back. It's a nice life.

PERINO: Probably Diet Cokes in the fridge.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. Now you're teasing me. Why are you toying with me?

GUTFELD: They have Foosball.

PERINO: Now Kimberly, when you were hired -- when you were a prosecutor and you were going to have someone, like, that was joining your team...


PERINO: ... what was the characteristics that you looked for the most, if you were going to be mentoring somebody, and they were helping you with a case?

GUILFOYLE: I think that's very job-specific question. So what I would look for, say, for example in a prosecutor would be different than what I look for, you know, a defense attorney, never had to hire any of those.

So as a prosecutor, I want to look for somebody who has an incredible attention to detail, somebody who is competent, has good self-esteem, a passion for justice, and a way to be able to talk to and relate to juries and to victims of violent crime. So there's a lot of different skillsets at play there. But you have to be someone who's personable, because you irritate or, you know, annoy the jury, offend them, that can -- that can really affect your case.

PERINO: Another way to look at this, Juan, is to ask yourself, would you want to work for yourself as an employee? Like would you want to work for yourself? Would you want to work for yourself?

WILLIAMS: Yes, but I'd worry about it.

GUTFELD: The boss would always be hitting on you.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that could be. Leave me alone. Keep your hands to yourself.

GUTFELD: Exactly.


WILLIAMS: I think that...

GUILFOYLE: Getting weird. Deja vu.

WILLIAMS: You know, it's like Steve Jobs said he'd hire someone who is lazy, because a lazy person would look for the fastest, easiest way to get the job done.

PERINO: That's interesting.

WILLIAMS: Curious. Because I would worry a lazy person wouldn't do the job at all

GUTFELD: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: To me, what you want, to your point, you know, it's not about -- I think you guys confuse intellectual ability and information. On the Internet, you can get a lot of information these days, but people who think fast and people who are compassionate and loyal, that's what I'd look for, someone that I think if I'm in the drenches, you know what? I want to be with this woman, this man. They're going to work with me. We're going to get out of this together. That's what I'd look for.

PERINO: That has been very helpful advice.

GUTFELD: You also have to be attractive.

WILLIAMS: If I'm in the trenches with them.

PERINO: That didn't hurt.

Ahead, Florida's governor is giving up on a fight to force welfare applicants to take drug tests. We're going to debate that decision coming up.


WILLIAMS: Florida Governor Rick Scott's abandoning one of his signature laws. It required mandatory drug testing for welfare applicants. The law was ruled unconstitutional by two federal courts during the nearly four-year-long legal battle. Scott's administration could have taken the case to the Supreme Court, but they have decided against the appeal.

So, Kimberly, here is the deal, my lawyer friend.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Go at it (ph).

WILLIAMS: Is it the case that this is unfair, that you're picking on the poor, on people who are getting welfare benefits, but you would never do the same thing to someone who was getting Medicare or someone who was getting Social Security? You'd never say, "Oh, you're going to be drug tested to get this program"?

GUILFOYLE: I don't think it's picking on the poor. I think they are concerned about people using benefits, government benefits for the intended purpose, which is to help buy groceries and support their families versus people that have substance abuse issues using it to buy narcotics or marijuana, et cetera.

I'm not surprised that they abandoned this appeal just for the practical impact that any of the states that have had these challenges, they've ended up failing. And the small number of people that end up -- that don't pass these tests is very small in comparison to the grand total. So I think -- and also with the new, you know, overflow of, like, laws and states passing to make marijuana legal, this is -- you know, it's just an exercise.

WILLIAMS: Yes, it's a good point. I think it's, what, 2.2 percent fail the test.

GUILFOYLE: Two point six percent.

BOLLING: Can I throw something out here? OK, so it's supplemental nutrition assist program, the emphasis on nutrition. So I don't know if that was unconstitutional or not, what Florida wanted to do. May have been. Who knows?

But the way -- the easy fix to this is having the EBT card used only for food. Right now, you can walk into any -- not any -- many ATMs, and this is federal programs that are administered through the states. You can walk into liquor stores. You can walk into strip clubs. You can walk into casinos, put your EBT card in and get cash back. And the assumption is these people who are in need will use the cash for nutrition.

The likelihood in a strip club or a liquor store, they're not going to use it for nutrition.

WILLIAMS: That seems pretty ridiculous. That's absurd.

BOLLING: Focus on nutrition in a grocery store and supermarket.


PERINO: Well, I think that the governor was right to abandon it, because you know, something to be said about cutting your losses.


PERINO: I understand the goal, but if the lawsuit is costing the state money and you're obviously going to lose, I think not appealing it was right. The real answer to this is economic growth. Right? More people back to work with more earnings in their pockets so that they don't have to depend on government handouts in order to survive.

WILLIAMS: Now you notice that Eric talking about what happens at strip club. I wouldn't know.

But Gregory, what about...

GUILFOYLE: Here we go.

BOLLING: Can I call B.S. on this?

WILLIAMS: Greg, what happens at Disney world? Are you allowed to use your EBT card at Disney World?

GUTFELD: Well, it depends what rides I'm getting on, because you know my height issue.

GUILFOYLE: You can do the tea cups.

GUTFELD: Those make me nauseous and I throw up. Dana said...

WILLIAMS: Right on mom.

GUTFELD: Dana said everything I wanted to say, so I'm going to say everything else. If you're going to do it for drugs, then you should do it for booze, because booze causes more problems in the world than marijuana does.

And then you've got to look at cigarettes, which lead to, like, heart disease, which we end up paying for. Then you've got to look at Twinkies, which leads to heart disease, and you've got to worry about that, because you've got to pay for that.

And drugs and booze are basically one of the few amusements that you can enjoy cheaply when you're poor while the president -- while the politicians delight in your dependency. At least you have some kind of oblivion that makes happy.

WILLIAMS: Well, you can always tune into "The Five" and have a laugh.

GUTFELD: That is my drug.

BOLLING: You know the biggest -- the biggest kind of joke of this whole thing, is it's money. It's fungible, right? So if you have any money in your pocket, all you have to really do if you're in the liquor store or strip club or casino, just use your own money. And when you're at the food store, use your EBT card.

WILLIAMS: Well, they're poor people. That's what -- anyway, you get it. I agree with your larger point that you're on target on this.

"One More Thing" coming right at you. Stay with us.


GUILFOYLE: I don't know.

GUTFELD: It's now -- time now for "One More Thing." What are you doing, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: I was adjusting.

GUTFELD: I know you were. Goodness gracious, the things I have to go through.


GUTFELD: My eyeballs are singed.

GUILFOYLE: You prefer that or a flash mob?

GUTFELD: All right. You're first.

GUILFOYLE: I know, that's why I was adjusting. Hello. So I have something very cute to show you. You're going to love it.

GUTFELD: Oh, my goodness.

GUILFOYLE: You're going to love it. So 16 months of age, the cutest little baker you have ever seen. They call her Anna from New Jersey.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it in. Put it in. Yes.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. She didn't get a crack in there.


GUILFOYLE: How cute is that? Perhaps she's going to grow up to be, like, a famous pastry chef.

GUTFELD: Why does it have to be pastry? Why can't she be a sous chef, or a head chef? Sexist.

GUILFOYLE: OK. She's only 16 months.

GUTFELD: Well, she should know by now. Eric.

BOLLING: So the 2 1/2 million New York Catholics lost a great man today. Cardinal Edward Egan passed at age 82. He was archbishop of New York from 2000 to 2009, including during 9/11 when he, 13 days after 9/11, delivered this.


CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, FORMER ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: We need courage to deal with our pain. We need justice to deal with the evil-doers who have harmed us so fiercely.


BOLLING: At one point, did a mass over all the bodies that remained in the World Trade Center.

GUILFOYLE: God bless him. Great man.


GUTFELD: Dana, you can go next.

PERINO: All right. If you are in the market for some good news, I've got a new place for you to visit. It's called Opportunity Lives, and they have just released a new trailer. It's about real life stories of Americans where you have community leaders working one-on-one with some of the most troubled people in order to solve a lot of problems. It's happening all across the nation. Take a look at this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the family goes, so goes the community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it becomes a war-like environment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That result in chaos, violence, confusion and poverty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why you got to have people who remind those in this trap that it's not permanent and that you have the ability to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think is the answer to the poverty? Well, let me show you what I saw.


PERINO: So, that's a trailer. The whole series will be available on March 17. So come back. It's a culmination of the journey that Paul Ryan started when he was on the campaign and also under the direction and guidance of Robert Woodson. And he helped create this organization. It's a great place for good information and some real solid problem-solving opportunities that people could adopt elsewhere.


GUILFOYLE: Wow. That was a really good one.



GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: You're welcome.

GUTFELD: Banned phrase for today: "Breaking the Internet." You know when there's like a funny selfie or celebrities take a picture of their butt, and then everybody's like, "Oh, it's going to break the Internet"? Nothing breaks the Internet. It's like a giant phone book. That's all the Internet is. It's a giant phone book; it's unbreakable.

By the way, speaking of unbreakable, I'm going to be on "O'Reilly" tonight with Bernie McGuirk. We're going to be talking about all sorts of fun stuff.

Juan, I believe it's you.

WILLIAMS: It's on to me? Well, you know, it's snowing in the East. It's snowing a lot in Washington, D.C. I think they got, like, seven or eight inches.

And today, they broke a ban on sledding on Capitol Hill. As you see on the west side, they had a sled-in. In defiance of Capitol police, people just went sledding. That's Jenkins Hill, is the real name of that, if you ever want to know the real name of Capitol Hill. But people are just having fun. I think kids all over. It's hot chocolate. It's snow. It's sledding. It's wonderful.

GUTFELD: But those sleds are -- those are snow-piercing sleds.

WILLIAMS: Is that what it is?


WILLIAMS: If you're standing at the bottom and it hits you, that's no...

GUILFOYLE: Don't you see the green tips on them?

GUTFELD: You've got to see the movie "Snow Piercer," if you haven't seen that.

PERINO: Is that a real movie?

GUTFELD: It's a great movie. All right.


GUTFELD: Tilda Swinton, America's sweetheart.

Set your DVRs. No, you are, too.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, so charming.

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