White House looking to capitalize on Ferguson fallout?
President meets with civil rights leaders, Cabinet members and police officials
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 2, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
You have to be living under a rock to have not been inundated with endless images and commentary surrounding Ferguson, Missouri. So, how did this small town crunch story become the biggest race story in America and likely the world? Maybe the media has something to do with it, or maybe these guys have something to do with it, first the president in D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is not a problem simply of Ferguson, Missouri. This is a problem that is national. What we need is a sustained conversation to hear young people -- feeling marginalized and distrustful even after they've done everything right. That's not who we are.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: And just hours later, the Attorney General Eric Holder took the mic in Atlanta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: In the months since this incident occurred it has sparked a significant national conversation about the need to ensure confidence in the law enforcement in criminal justice processes. The rift that this tragedy exposed in Ferguson and elsewhere must be addressed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: So our president and our attorney general calling for Ferguson to open a national conversation about race, sure looks like a planned rollout of the race debate from the White House. Let's not forget the words of former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, never let serious crisis, go to waste. Bob, do you think this is a concerted effort by the White House to keep the race debate going?
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: No, I think it's the right thing to do, the race debate has been going for a long time and it didn't begin with Ferguson and it will not end with Ferguson. And what I point it out here is it, if you look at a few research studies on college black man, their trust of the police department is somewhere it has no feelings. Now, there had to be reasons for that, these are educated people, to look I suppose, at that grand jury policy (ph) they don't trust the police, they don't trust white people and they have a good reason not to.
KIMBERLY GUILFOLE, CO-HOST: Oh that terrible, what a racist statement to make.
BECKEL: What is racist about that?
GUILFOYLE: Because you do --
BECKEL: You've been on the other side --
GUILFOYLE: You know what Bob?
BECKEL: On top of race.
GUILFOYLE: Great. You know what? In all you do is bad mouth and put down anybody who's white. You don't ever look into anybody's --
BECKEL: That's wrong.
GUILFOYLE: Done with their actions and you're making these huge --
BECKEL: I said not, I said they --
GUILFOYLE: Sweeping statements that are offensive.
BECKEL: No, I have tried to make some offensive -- You cannot understand.
GUILFOYLE: No, I can understand.
BECKEL: I said black men do not trust --
GUILFOYLE: I know more about it than you do. I'm a Latina woman, you're a white man, so I don't want to hear it.
BECKEL: If you do surveys of black and college educated man.
GUILFOYLE: This is craziness.
BECKEL: Wait a minute. Well, I just --
GUILFOYLE: I just don't understand, even people -- anyone who's getting an education, why do you mimic people by always labeling them by their skin color. Be broader, be bigger than that.
BECKEL: I said because, black men have a distrust of the system, simple as that.
GUILFOYLE: I mean, goodness, gracious.
BECKEL: You don't think they have a distrust of the system.
GUILFOYLE: I mean -- it is such a constant crucifixion from you.
BOLLING: Alright. So, let's bring it on this -- is it smart for the White House , President Obama, Eric Holder -- clearly keeping the debate alive by -- you know, almost a coordinated -- they hitting the microphone at the same time, keeping the debate up. Why would they do that?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Seriously, here's the problem. Even you're part of the problem or you steer clear of it. Because it seems to me, whenever you try do get involved in the conversation, you're going to be wrong. You just saw that here. That if you have any kind of opinion that goes counter, to I think the liberal conventional wisdom that blacks cannot trust cops, if you come at that from my other angle, even if you were black.
BECKEL: Greg I got to do that.
GUILFOYLE: For white people.
BECKEL: I never said that.
GUTFELD: You just said that.
BECKEL: I did not say that.
GUILFOYLE: Yes you did.
BECKEL: I said black men have a distrust of the system.
GUTFELD: Alright. OK, they have that -- I think that's what he said. Could this distrust be part of 40 years of pop culture instructing young black men not to trust the police, even though the police are there in their communities trying to prevent blacks from killing other blacks, the same thing like Giuliani said. My point is this -- you cannot have a national dialogue if, the people that you disagree with, you consider to be part of the problem. Here's the media math, if it is a black person committing a crime on a white person -- that is a crime. If it is a white person committing a crime on a black person, it's race, because generally, that might be a cop. So, it's not a two-way street, and whenever there's a debate, it is the other side that is seen as racist and that kills the debate.
BOLING: brings up a very good question -- can black people be considered racist? You will hear some of the most racist things, coming out of black men, Al Sharpton, you will hear it, but they're never considered or called racist. If you would take the other side, the exact opposite commentary from a white man or a white woman, they would clearly be called racist, they may have been thrown out.
GUTFELD: They -- its part of the idea that the history that they -- that blacks have gone through, they're incapable of being accused of racism because of the injustice that they have experienced. That's why.
BOLLING: Dana, the White House, coordinated, not coordinated. How about this -- they lost the midterms miserably. If Ferguson starts to before the midterms, they have this race debate going before the midterms. Smart to continue the race debate after the midterms?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think -- I think the White House is just dealing with what the news cycle is. I don't -- I think it makes sense for both of them to talk about it today because, it's still on the front pages of the news, and sometimes it takes a White House, a couple of days to think of the strategy. The president just spoke about it yesterday, if he's talking about it again today. I don't think that they're trying anything other than to deal with the news of the day.
The part of the problem is, the big story of the day on -- that deals for everybody of low income, white or black, is the front story of the Wall Street Journal today, which talks about the economic costs and the last six years, of how many -- how much prices have gone up for across the board including on health care and electricity, how people aren't doing better. I think that the problem -- I have of talking about this is that, the solidarity with Michael Brown would be more understandable if it was based on events that actually happened. The solidarity is currently being based on events that did not happen. So you cannot have a conversation on the people having different fact.
GUILFOYLE: On a false, on a false truth.
BOLLING: Hang on. This is an absolutely perfect transition to this, "hands up don't shoot" has become the metaphor, as Dana points out, for racial tension in America -- thanks to race-baiters like Al Sharpton, and a New Black Panther Party, Check out how the pro-race lobbyist is ratcheting up the rhetoric now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCIA FUDGE, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS CHAIR: The Ferguson grand jury's decision not to indict former Officer Darren Wilson was yet another slap in our face. It was a painful reminder that just like with Trayvon Martin and Tamir Rice, and so many others that law enforcement officers kill our black and brown men and boys without repercussions.
JESSE JACKSON, ACTIVIST: The fact is, for three and a half months, this was no jury of substance. No jury of integrity. No real America. This was a hangman's noose.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: Let's stay with Dana, a hangman's noose from the reverend. But, if that what we see, we see the ratcheting of the rhetoric is, this times goes for.
PERINO: For desperation I guess, could keep the story going. I think that is deeply irresponsible and a disgrace. It's like when in politics, when you call someone a liar, there's really nowhere to go from there, or when you say someone is a Nazi, that -- no one should bring up the holocausts -- if you just look at the facts of the situation, like -- I like to do it, not the emotional fan -- I'm not saying there aren't grievances and I think the president, when he proposed to cameras wear cops, that might be a good investment, that's great, but, if that type of video evidence is going to be important to a discussion like this, then surely the video evidence of what happened before the shooting in the Michael Brown case, should be admissible as well.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Can I just ask just one more time? I've made one statement which was, in the black community, young black men do not trust authority and they do not trust police. Why that is, whether it's fair or not, whether it's accurate or not, is not the issue.
PERINO: No, actually Bob. You actually said and they have --
BOLLING: That's not what he said.
GUILFOYLE: That is what he said.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Let me finish, let me finish.
GUILFOYLE: And all white people?
BECKEL: And all white people. That was all white people?
GUILFOYLE: You also said white --
BECKEL: I said people in authority.
GUILFOYLE: Yes or no? That's what you said.
BECKEL: I said people in authority.
PERINO: It was in artfully said anyway.
BOLLING: OK, so --
BECKEL: So, it was in artfully said, but it gets back to the point that I do not believe that they have a great deal of trust and I think there's a lot of reasons for it, period.
GUTFELD: I think -- you know, I think they don't have a lot of trust, but why is that? If you have -- I don't know. If half of the homicides are committed by blacks and they're 13 percent of the population, the police officers have to go to that community and they have to deal with it. So, they're already in an interesting position, where they are the authority and they are trying to reduce crime and however, there are people there -- they don't want them there and there are people that are so grateful, and there all black, that are grateful that they are there. If you look at people like AL Sharpton, the theory -- on my theory is that they are holding politicians captive. If you don't kiss Sharpton's ring, he will foment violence. Right now we have a chokehold case in New York City that is going to be coming up. It could get ugly, so what you going to do? Eric holder, to paraphrase says, we are cowards when it comes to race-baiting, we won't talk to the race-baiters and call them on their bluff.
BOLLING: But where were President Obama and Eric Holder -- remember the knockout game?
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: Predominantly black use scoring around punching white people, knocking them out, unsuspecting. There wasn't race summit's coming from the White House -- regarding that. K.G., my son knows better than to do this, however, if he knocked off a convenience store and then punched a cop in the face --
GUILFOYLE: Else that -- and then try to take his gun?
BOLLING: And he tried to take his gun --
GUILFOYLE: Shouldn't.
BOLLING: And the cop happens to be black. I guarantee you I'm not out here saying, he was shot because that cop was a racist?
GUILFOYLE: Of course not, because that wouldn't make sense. And this whole thing is base on false narrative, this "hands up don't shoot" has been disproved. Because, the individual that said it was retracted in the grand jury. That was a lie. So, I don't know while these people are running around, they're making themselves look ignorant, because, they were repeating something that has been proved to be false. So why are they're doing this? And I tell you what -- Eric Holder didn't do any favors to Ferguson, because he helps foment this with his rhetoric and putting attention -- why are they not, as two lawyers, President Obama and Eric Holder respecting the rule of the law and the decision of the people that presided over this in the grand jury?
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Among black, among blacks young men in Ferguson, you're right about Obama and Holder, I suppose. But, they simply do not believe it.
BOLLING: Alright, Bob. Rather than "hands up don't shoot"?
BECKEL: Because those grand juries are stacked.
BOLLING: Bob.
BECKEL: Because they do --
BOLLING: You saw --
BECKEL: I don't know what else to tell you, you guys, you're living in la la land if you don't believe that.
BOLLING: But the --
BECKEL: You don't believe these people feel that way. At least, at least accept the fact they feel that way.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I -- you know, I believe that. I believe that, however you can't have a discussion with leaders if they're -- if they're refusing to listen to solutions.
BECKEL: That's correct.
PERINO: And I -- can I tell something --
BOLLING: Can I add one quick solution? Dana, you address this. The highest dropout rate among any race, blacks, 32 percent across the board, almost double the white dropout rate, rather than hands up, two hands up, how about one hand up in a classroom, that metaphor that you just showed -- they showed it, that came from -- those are three congressional black caucus leaders on the floor --
PERINO: Right.
BOLLING: Of the House today, with the hands up. What -- why?
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: This is help.
PERINO: I think part of the reason is that, national conversations tend to have a short shelf life. After the shooting at the school in Connecticut, in Sandy Hook, we were going to have a sustained national conversation about mental health problems in this country. It lasted for about three weeks. There's not been -- there's been some good legislation introduced by the lead Congressman of Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania, I don't think it's gone anywhere. And that conversation ebbs and flows. In this situation the solutions that were put forward so far, are all changes that are suppose to come from the police. That they are -- so as to be better training, suppose to have better equipment, there's no this national conversation about the root cause, that actually would be -- I think the helpful one to have, but it's going to -- I think it's going to have to wait until the next presidential election for that actually to emerge because this situation is toxic.
BECKEL: One of the situations is -- desirably inferior schools for black people.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: They're public schools, Bob.
BECKEL: I know, but they're inferior --
BOLLING: Public school.
BECKEL: And it's interesting that you over right (ph) to be complaining about.
BOLLING: Let's get in this here, we -- we've been talking a lot about what -- what in the aftermath of Ferguson, what's been good, what's been bad, what's causing the racial tension, listen to Bill O'Reilly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR HOST: The protestors who did not loot or burn or assault the police, but who remained in the fray, are guilty of aiding and abetting those who did -- by providing them cover and support. The mob also did something else -- it's set back race relations in America years.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: So K.G., Bill -- paraphrasing Bill O'Reilly seems to protests on what's really setting back race relations in America.
GUILFOYLE: Well, it is again, because it's based on a false narrative, it's based on a set a fact, the circumstances that actually didn't occur. And it's -- it's upsetting to me that police officers that go out there every night and put their life on the line, the only way this kind of mob mentality is going to be satisfied? If that the cop came home in a pine box, instead.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: You commit multiple felonies, you can be high on, on drugs and you can go and assault a police officer and beat up a store clerk, and then go and take the cop's gun and -- you're still the one that's OK, you're still the victim.
GUTFELD: I don't think what Mr. O'Reilly was condemning protests. I think what he's talking about are the radicals that are piggy backing on sincere distress.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: But there are people out there that legitimately feel wrong. But there are people that are egging, egging it on for the sake of a violent revolution. Then, it signal their submissive, that they're not going to get hurt because, they're bloggers and they're activists, they don't own businesses. But -- to the point -- we know that blacks kill blacks and we know that whites kill whites. But, there are shopkeepers in their neighborhoods that are Koreans, and there are Serbians and there are Indians and they're Arabic's. So, it's not really this about race. It's actually about proximity. It's the people that are brave enough to stay in these communities as these communities fall apart. And as their citizens believe to go to safer places, if the immigrants who stay in these communities and start businesses, and I always go back, it's like, this is why I keep thinking yes to amnesty, because it really is a homestead act. Let these people come in and rebuild these cities, and if they can do it, they get citizenship --
BECKEL: Greg.
GUTFELD: And we should expand this awareness --
BECKEL: Greg.
GUTFELD: Of victim hood. No, there are all types of victims of violence, they are not just blacks, they are not just whites, they are --
PERINO: Americans.
GUTFELD: Rashid Keblawe, he was killed in a Miami drugstore on Thanksgiving, bagging groceries, he had a pregnant -- her pregnant wife, who got shoot -- we should be googling and posting those stories of those people getting killed and sending them to your leaders and letting them know there are all kinds of violent -- victims of violence and they are Americans.
BECKEL: That'll be it.
PERINO: Can I just mention -- comment on O'Reilly's comment? I actually thought that when I saw it last night, I thought it was an overreaction. I think that it's important that the people who do -- are looking at the facts, but not overreact. Because, it is a fairly small minority of people that are trying to foment the situation but, that's small minority is getting the lion share the attention.
BECKEL: Right.
PERINO: So like the Sharpton's and the Jesse Jackson's of the world. Most people actually have -- definitely advanced and evolved and were taught differently by our parents, and we think differently that's why we use -- think passionately about it. So why in one of the worst things you can be called is a racist, that's why it so stings so much.
GUTFELD: yeah, I appalled. PERINO: Do I actually think that over -- I think overreacting is something that we have to make sure that we don't.
BECKEL: That was a reckoned (ph) in his part, but, but beyond that, it would counted (ph). The people who showed up at those things were professional race rioters --
BOLLING: Right.
BECKEL: And 85 percent of the people in Ferguson stayed home and did not go out and cause this problem.
GUTFELD: Right, true.
BECKEL: They do not have, that do not use drug, but 90 percent do not trust the police establishment.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Before you start that conversation again ---
BECKEL: Well, you're the one that started it because -- why don't you start it.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: You know what? Because, he just made that number up. How about that?
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: I'll, I'll wait until your hands up on that one.
GUILFOYLE: OK, bring it.
BOLLING: A college teen gets mugged at gunpoint, he has no hard feelings for the criminals in fact he, understands why he was targeted. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Georgetown student Oliver Friedfeld claims he was robbed at gunpoint, but ads he deserved it, because of privilege. Writing for the school paper he says, "Who am I to stand from my perch of privilege surrounded by million dollar homes and paying for a 60 grand education to condemn these young men as thugs." Well that 60 grand well spent. I mean, what great satire -- he adds, as young people, we need to devote real energy to solving what are collective challenges, what that word. Until we do so, we should get comfortable with sporadic muggings and break-ins. So, this bozo, excuses armed robbery because, he doesn't expect those guys to act decently, and that's not racist? How? So, one wonders, what about murder or rape? Seriously, would he excuse the rape of a loved one? Perhaps, he should share his thoughts with the family of Zamir Begic, the man beaten to death with hammers in St. Louis last Sunday. Something tells me, it would be harder to voice this opinion to those poor people than in a college paper you little runt. Now, Al Lee's (ph) story sounds unreal I mean, who thinks like this? So, we reach out to him, but he didn't respond and the paper decline to comment. That maybe it's true and he really is this wimpy, after all he is a product of the modern campus, the conveyor belt of the masculation (ph) and intellectual disarmament, which makes mice not men. But to me is just a discredit to his race, the human one. This guy really is dating material, huh? Is there any got a date with this guy?
PERINO: Is there a police report?
GUTFELD: It is -- yeah, there is actually a police report. But, do you imagine being on a date with this guy, and you get mugged, and he defends the muggers, or what if he hits his girlfriend or boyfriend? What then? Like, Oh, you know -- there just disadvantaged.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: What kind of deserved it?
GUTFELD: His parents should be so ashamed of him. They paid 60 grand for that crap.
BOLLING: You know, my son is 16, he's going to got to college, I literally thought about Georgetown and how great it would be and then I see something like this. I watched -- I saw this story, I think -- number one, it has to be faked --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: His clearly just wrote this to be provocative and get to the media, to -- bite, and a lot of media's biting maybe that's big a narcissist, that's possible. But, I think he did actually file a police report --
GUTUFELD: Yeah, yeah.
BOLLING: One of the counties if there's so maybe, he actually did get mugged, if that's the case, this guy is just a product of being over liberalized. If -- look, everyone gets a trophy, I can't have more than him. But you're right, what about rape, what about murder, what about -- what if he does have enough and he just wants more?
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Yeah, what about if there is stealing?
GUILFOYLE: What if he got his butt the -- or his head smashed in or he got shot or he got stabbed, which happens most often.
GUTFELD: If that would be happen if he didn't --
GUILFOYLE: Would he have deserved that too? It's just ridiculous.
GUTFELD: Yeah, I wanna go, I want -- forget about this loser, I want to talk about this poor man, this Serbian in St. Louis, who a -- a group of teens beat him to death with a hammer, his name's Zamir Begich. This is the St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson, explaining that it's not racist.
PERINO: Oh my God.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SAM DOTSON, ST.LOUIS POLICE CHIEF: What can also tell you is that, there is no indication that the gentleman last night was targeted because, he was Bosnian. I want you to know that I take -- his not only your safety, but everybody safety in our community very seriously. I heard your message loud and clear tonight. You want to make sure that you're safe. I want to make sure that you're safe too, just like every neighborhood in our city.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: Identify them as Serbian in Bosnian. He said he wasn't targeted because he was Bosnian, could that be that he was white? I'm not saying this in fact, I don't even want to inject race into this. But it seems interesting that everybody now is bending over backwards not to inject race, Bob. Not to do it.
BECKEL: I think the more important thing here is forget the race issue, that people are going to go and mug where the money is, and this guy is in Georgetown or in Georgetown --
GUTFELD: No, this is, this guy is in --
BECKEL: St. Louis. I know. But he -- I assume that guy has something -- that trying to get some more of this.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: No, they didn't. They do it with hammer.
PERINO: Pulled him out of his car and killed him in front of his wife.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: They probably distrust, they probably didn't trust him.
BECKEL: No, that he was acting (ph)
BOLLING: Twenty miles from Ferguson.
BECKEL: They're wilders, I mean, these guys are out of control.
BOLLING: Twenty miles from Ferguson Bob, no relation.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: I always try to make -- I was coming back, he just gone for the first one. I said that, people go and commit crimes where there is money, that's all.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BECKEL: And this guy to suggest that somehow they committed it because he's privileged and therefore they should be released is ridiculous.
GUTFELD: Well, back to this horrible crime, do you think the news channel will spend 24 hours a day covering this?
PERINO: No.
GUTFELD: No?
PERINO: I'm sure that for our viewers, it might be the first time that our viewers have heard about it.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: But he deserves some recognition, amazing story of an immigrant family who came here legally --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: And was successful in business and starting a family has -- there's going to be -- a memorial service for him next week, or I think maybe on this end of this week. He died at an area hospital and there's a close knit boss knee yang (ph) community there, that was doing exactly what you were saying in the a-block, going into the community and working hard to try to create a better life for themselves and his wife said that she never thought --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: That the kinds of things that were happening in a war zone would actually happen here in America.
BECKEL: Did he catch the guys who did it?
GUTFELD: They caught one so far.
GUILFOYLE: No, there's three -- now, later there's three in custody, they're looking for at least one or two more, one turned, they're being charged with first-degree attempted murder, hopefully, being tried as adults. Then this is a horrific crime, and what we are talking about it here because, the rest of the media won't cover it and it shameful, but this is the reality.
GUTFELD: I don't know.
BOLLING: Why did they bend over backwards and say it's specifically are not racist and not a hate crime. When the family is saying, it was a race related crime. They bend over backwards one it's that way, but if it's a white cop who shoots some black teens who just roll the liquor store and or a convenience store, if it brings out everybody.
BECKEL: Well, it may end, I'm sure they would know a Bosnian from a Bosnian.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: White.
BOLLING: Was it Bosnian that is their call.
GUILFOYLE: Well, there is one report that it said, F the white people, so.
BECKEL: Well, OK. So, it is why I'm missing the point.
BOLLING: My point is why the cop is saying, definitively that is not a hate crime or race crime -- race related crime.
GUTFELD: They're scared.
BOLLING: Were you have scared?
GUTFELD: No.
BOLLING: Obviously --
GUTFELD: Alright, got to go. Ahead, Republicans want answers from the administration on the president's immigration action and they try to get them today on to the hill next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Today, Congress held its first hearing on President Obama's executive action on immigration. On the hot seat to defend his boss was homeland security secretary Jeh Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: The president said over 20 times that he did not have the legal authority to do this, to take this executive action, and that this is not how democracy works. Do you agree with that prior statement?
JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I've looked at various excerpts of remarks by the president concerning his legal authority to act and I do not believe that what we have done is inconsistent with that.
REP. BILL KEATING (D-MA), HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Before this hearing gets too polite (ph), let me be very direct, Mr. Secretary: Is this amnesty?
JOHNSON: No, not in my judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right, and we got the cue cards out.
All right. GOP-led House plans to vote down Obama's immigration action this week. The move would be only symbolic, for the president would veto the measure.
Now, talking immigration, Republicans are also hoping to avoid a government shutdown next week, and Charles Krauthammer has some advice for them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I understand the pent-up anger and the rage over the president's unconstitutional action, but the cure for that is to go to see a psychiatrist, not to vote in the Congress and shut down the government. The Republicans are ahead. They shouldn't blow it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Dana.
PERINO: Well, the people that like the shutdown talk the most are liberal Democrats. They can point to their fundraising spikes right after the shutdown of the last time, and they thought it gave them real momentum. They can point to poll numbers going up for Democrats and down for Republicans in the aftermath of that. But that's one of the reasons that they like to talk about the shutdown.
There is an argument from some on the right that says, "Well, actually, it would be President Obama that would be shutting down the government, because he would veto it. It's actually really hard to tell. I think Charles Krauthammer is very level-headed. He takes fact over emotion.
The thing about Jeh Johnson, too, is he's a very cool customer. It's not an envious position to be in, and as a cabinet secretary, I would say he did a very good job on behalf of the president. I don't agree that it was a wise thing to do to take the executive action. But as hearings go, I'd say it was probably one of the best I'd seen.
GUILFOYLE: So he represented the president--
PERINO: Very well.
GUILFOYLE: -- well. Bolling.
BOLLING: You look at it, it's such a charade. I mean, so they -- they go and ask Jeh Johnson questions, and he does well. And we go back, and there's nothing -- nothing they can do about it.
Charles Krauthammer and Dana are 1,000 percent right. You got the ball. You're winning the game. Just sit on the ball. Wait until January. You're going to get what you want. You can't roll this back. That's the consequences of electing a Democrat president that wants to change -- fundamentally change America. He did it before -- before the end of his term. Elections have consequences; there's one of them. Deal with it. Fix it going forward if you can. If you're a Republican president, repeal it or do something else or do the opposite. But it's just annoying seeing these people do this, because nothing's going to come out of it.
GUILFOYLE: Greg, are you annoyed?
GUTFELD: Yes, I guess. It feels like the next two years are going to be like a liberal's Black Friday. You know, they're going to try to get everything they can while it's on sale. And the Republicans are--
PERINO: What about Cyber Monday?
GUTFELD: They have to, like, mind the store. The new slogan for Republicans should be "If we don't do it, they will." And I mean govern. Because as a conservatarian, conservative libertarian, we don't like big government. But you're going to have to govern. So shutting down the government, if it makes MSNBC happy, it's got to be the wrong thing.
PERINO: That could be a good test.
GUTFELD: Yes. If MSNBC likes it, it's bad for the country.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Now, before Mr. Beckel brings up, you know, Bush- Reagan executive action, that was actually tried, so take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Congressman, this type of action has existed in one form or another, going back decades. It was exercised in the Reagan and Bush administrations.
REP. PAT MEEHAN (R-PA), HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: No, Mr. Secretary, I will not allow you to go there. It was exercised after activity by the Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Bob.
BECKEL: Here's what I want to say to what Dana said. The liberals want them to shut it down, of course. And the reason for it is they were stupid enough to do it twice. They didn't learn their first time. They didn't learn the second time. Did we raise a lot of money? Yes. Did they take a bad hit? Yes. Would they take the same type of bad hit again? Yes. And would we like to raise money? Yes.
PERINO: Well, I'm so glad we agree.
BECKEL: I mean, just to tell you, speaking of Republicans, listen to Charles. They probably had some hotheads over there that actually think it's a good idea.
PERINO: I actually do think it's good to get -- I think that the House vote on immigration is a smart one to have. I understand it's symbolic, but I think it's an important one to have and get everybody on record.
And if I were a reporter, and I was on the Hillary campaign trail, I would be asking her every single time to clarify her position on it and make sure they get her on the record.
BECKEL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
BOLLING: I know. I didn't say that they can overturn it. I said in 2016, you could.
BECKEL: I thought you said in January.
PERINO: Also Eric had an excellent sports metaphor there.
BECKEL: What was that?
PERINO: Sitting on the ball. I even knew what that meant.
BECKEL: What does that mean?
GUILFOYLE: There you go. Making new sports fans every day.
GUTFELD: Got to be very flexible to sit on a ball.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Stay tuned, because Dana's got some breaking news in the cooking world to tell you about. Mm-mmm. A major shake-up to the way Girl Scouts sell their sweets and, you're going to hear it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: OK. You can buy just about anything online but not Girl Scout cookies until now. Beginning next week, if you're craving a Thin Mint of a Samoa or another favor, you can order them through a new digital program the organization is going to try out. One catch, though, is that you have to know a Girl Scout to become a virtual customer.
For decades scouts have typically sold cookies door to door, and some still will, but we're going to talk about now whether it's a good idea to take away the door-to-door people skills like the rejections.
Kimberly -- Kimberly, you sold--
GUILFOYLE: I just lost my advertisers (ph).
PERINO: You sold Girl Scout cookies when you were a Bluebird.
GUILFOYLE: Well, no, I sold our cookies.
PERINO: I thought they were Girl Scouts.
GUILFOYLE: NO. I sold cookies.
PERINO: I sold Girl Scout cookies when I was a Bluebird, I believe. I loved it. I was good at it.
GUILFOYLE: You played for the other team.
PERINO: No, it was for us (ph), I think. So we had to do it. I remember being so scared to go up to the door and ring the doorbell--
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: -- and have to say, "Hello, I'm Dana with the Girl Scouts. Would you like to buy some cookies?"
GUILFOYLE: You have to go with adult supervision.
PERINO: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Unless you live in New York in an apartment building and you can knock-knock, you know, for your neighbors. But really who ends up selling so many of your cookies are your parents. Then they go and they guilt the other, you know, co-workers at their job into buying the cookies. But it all goes to a very good cause.
PERINO: They have raised -- if we could pull this up. They raised $800 million a year for the Girl Scouts. The biggest seller is the Thin Mint. What's not on here is Greg's favorite, the short bread.
GUTFELD: Ha-ha, that is so cute. Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: Girl Scouts are really good.
GUTFELD: So Girl Scouts are sexist and ageist. If I can't be a Girl Scout, it's exclusionary. I'm 50; I can't be a Brownie.
And where does the money really go? To big Girl Scout. We're talking they control all the badges, the camping, the hiking. If you cross Girl Scouts, where do you go? You disappear. You've heard about "Soylent Green." Samoas are people; Thin Mints are people. That's where you go if--
GUILFOYLE: What about Tagalongs?
GUTFELD: This is human. This is made from human flesh. Yes, sue me, Girl Scouts.
PERINO: Bob, you've given up sugar, but would you still buy Girl Scout cookies?
BECKEL: Yes. Listen, I -- it doesn't really worry me that these girls don't get a chance to meet face to face. On the other hand--
PERINO: They still say they will -- some will.
BECKEL: There's no argument doing marketing online is probably the future more than anything else, right?
I used to buy Girl Scout cookies all the time. I'd invite them in. I'd go through all their assortment of things. It was great.
PERINO: You did not, Bob.
BOLLING: What is so--
BECKEL: I asked a lot of questions. They were very articulate.
PERINO: Tagalongs.
BOLLING: So while that's great, they'll probably sell more. But thought of losing that whole competitive nature. You know, this Girl Scout wants to be here (ph), so she wants to spell more. Understanding marketing, price, value, all that stuff.
PERINO: And also that rejection.
BOLLING: The rejection, I was just going to say.
GUILFOYLE: What rejection? Who says no? Who says no? Come on.
BOLLING: I mean, think about the ability to understand no. "Will you buy this?" No. They don't do that anymore. Now everyone gets the trophy. Everyone's--
PERINO: What if you get an e-mail response that says no on your digital program? That could be devastating. It's probably easier.
GUILFOYLE: Only if you can read.
PERINO: OK. That's good training for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) dot com.
GUTFELD: This tastes like people. This is the big scandal.
GUILFOYLE: This explains everything. I'm a people person.
PERINO: We want to thank the Girl Scouts from sending over all these cookies. And we will keep them away from Bob.
GUTFELD: They told us to be nice. That's why I said it.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
GUTFELD: They wanted us -- they were really worried we were going to bad mouth the Girl Scouts, but we weren't. But we weren't. That's why I said it.
BECKEL: Making cookies out of human beings is not bad?
GUTFELD: Because they -- they demanded that we be nice. So I said--
PERINO: No, they didn't demand. They asked.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.
PERINO: They wanted to protect the Girl Scouts and who wouldn't want to do that?
OK. The potential GOP candidate who scares Bob the most, as could be decided on 2016 in the near future. See Bob quake in his boots when he tells you about news from -- someone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKEL: I've said for a while that Jeb Bush is the one GOP candidate who scares me when it comes to winning the presidency in 2016. Of course, my own personal choice is Teddy Cruz.
But last night at the Wall Street Journal CEO Council Dinner, Bush hinted his decision on running may be imminent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I'm thinking about running for president, and I'll make up my mind in short order.
I don't know if I'd be a good candidate or a bad one. I know -- I kind of know how a Republican can win, whether it's me or somebody else. And it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive, much more willing to, you know, to be practical now in Washington world, lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKEL: You know, Jeb shouldn't have his trouble raising money as a result of this. He's going to get a lot of money out of the CEOs.
But you know, the one thing about him that worries me, and one is the Hispanics. He could cut into the Hispanic vote by a whole lot, one. And two, he also -- something he said that was very important at the end. He said, "You have to be willing to lose the primary to win the general." I'm not sure you can, Jeb, lose the primaries.
But what he's saying is primaries take the Republican way far right and make them unlikeable, because all the yahoos get in the middle of it and screw it up. He's saying you've got to be willing to forego that to win a general election.
BOLLING: So we're talking about Jeb running. We're talking about money. It looks like, you know, every indication that he's going to run and announce. I would guess sometime in the first couple of months of the year--
BECKEL: Yes, most of them will.
BOLLING: But you have four good Republican governors, four of them who will likely run: Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Chris Christie and probably John Kasich. So you've got to like -- you have to like the Republicans' chances. Those are really, really solid governors. And I personally love the idea of a state CEO running the country, because he's -- he's done it before.
BECKEL: I have to tell you -- I haven't seen a congressional Republican with some solid, you know, frontrunnership here.
PERINO: Well, some of the senators do. Well, I think that there's a lot of them.
BECKEL: Besides Teddy Cruz?
PERINO: Yes. I think that Rubio and Rand Paul have -- have their names in the mix.
But what I like Jeb Bush is a lot of things, obviously. But he has been saying all along that he will decide by the end of this year. He's very punctual. I like punctuality. I like that humility, where he said, "I don't know whether I'd be a good candidate or not." That's refreshing.
And also the thing I like about him I've heard is that he's not afraid to lose. That's one thing. But he's also not afraid to win. Whoever the next president is, is going to have so many major problems to deal with, especially on the economy and the fiscal health of the country that I think it will be a very interesting fight.
BECKEL: Punctual or not, the Iowa caucuses are 12 months from -- about 13 months away. So you have to start working on it very, very soon.
GUILFOYLE: How do you like his chances there?
BECKEL: It's not bad. There's a lot of Hispanic voters there. I think -- I think this myth about the Republican white wing dominating. Now, it is true, though, he's very much right to life, is he not?
PERINO: Yes. I don't want to speak for him.
BECKEL: Because that's important. Because that's where Christie will run into trouble in Iowa.
Greg, who do you like in the Republicans?
GUTFELD: You just -- you just said everything I've said for the last, what, six months, that we need a positive, uplifting voice. My problem is, can you get a new car smell from a car that reminds you vaguely of two other cars you already owned?
PERINO: What about the Clinton car? I mean, if you choice is -- you think that -- I don't know if it really will, but if it came down to that. Which car do you want to drive?
GUTFELD: Well, I think the Bush car smells better than the Clinton car.
PERINO: OK. That's a great way to vote.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: I mean, if you're going to make a decision, you can't make up your mind--
GUILFOYLE: Because a Porsche -- because a Porsche smells better.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: -- Bryl Creem (ph).
How much -- how much of a problem do you think the Bush legacy is for him?
GUILFOYLE: Why wouldn't it -- why can't you just turn that around and use it as an advantage? Somebody who has a tremendous amount of experience, a family that has dedicated their lives to public service, to serving this country, to serving the government, that cares deeply about America, that doesn't put their own agenda first? That sounds really good to me.
PERINO: Besides, it's a different time, and he's a different man.
BECKEL: The other thing, though, to keep in mind: Rubio is not running, but Jeb Bush is.
PERINO: We don't know that.
GUILFOYLE: He should be -- he should be judged on his own merit.
BECKEL: Very, very rarely--
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I'll arm wrestle you over it.
BECKEL: OK, good. We'll arm wrestle. A friend from Virginia will get in the race.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes.
BECKEL: All right. "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." Greg's up first. Time for--
GUTFELD: All right, a banned phrase, "said no one ever." People always put that after a phrase to point out that the previous phrase is wrong, like "I think Lou Dobbs isn't sexy, said no one ever." Because obviously, Lou Dobbs is sexy.
BECKEL: I never heard that before.
GUTFELD: You haven't? Well, it was cute a year ago. Now it's stupid, said everyone ever. Said everyone. See what I did? Girl Scout cookies, they're made of human beings.
BOLLING: All right. They want me to rush along. OK, take the first screen very quickly. Oil prices have slid almost 50 -- actually more than 50 percent over the last year and a half. That last move down went from about $115 a barrel down to $65, $63 a barrel.
Next screen very quickly, what does that translate to? A dollar lower, dollar or two lower in gasoline prices over the course of a year, and that translates to a $150 billion stimulus package to every single American, whether you're rich at the top end like Bob, or at the very bottom end. That's more money to drive with, more money to spend.
BECKEL: Congratulations, President Obama. That was a good job.
BOLLING: Has nothing to do with President Obama. Bob is trying to give him credit.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: OK. K.G., you're up.
GUILFOYLE: Right here in New York City, they kicked off World AIDS Day, and unfortunately, front runner Bono is recovering in Dublin from a five- hour surgery and bike accident that he had in Central Park. So guess who stepped up? Nothing like a couple friends. Bruce Springsteen and Chris Martin coming in to save the day for their friend. And it went very well. But we still love Bono the best.
BOLLING: Too well. Some people are saying Springsteen should be the new--
GUILFOYLE: Well, Springsteen singing "Where the Streets Have No Name" and "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking for."
GUTFELD: Chris Martin is the worst human being.
PERINO: They totally should have invited Dierks Bentley, who covers one of the U-2 songs much better..
GUTFELD: No, it should have been Jasper singing.
PERINO: And that would have been great.
GUILFOYLE: Jasper opens it up.
PERINO: Jasper is on his way home.
BOLLING: Dana, you're up.
PERINO: OK, yesterday, I did something to drive Bob crazy. Today I want to do it to Greg. You'll enjoy this. Did you love the Muppets? I did. Adam Shleikorn (ph) -- make sure I got that right -- he did a little take on the Muppets, using Naughty By Nature's "Hip-Hop Hooray." And this is just for Greg.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: NAUGHTY BY NATURE, "HIP-HOP HOORAY")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: I love Beaker.
GUTFELD: You know what?
PERINO: All day long I couldn't wait to show you that to you.
GUTFELD: Our culture is being contaminated on all fronts. Those were the Muppets, and you have destroyed them. Should have been NWA.
GUILFOYLE: And you destroyed the Girl Scouts.
BOLLING: OK.
BECKEL: The list is out over the most popular names, according to Baby Center. Most popular names in the United States, take a look at these: Jackson, Aiden, Liam, Lucas and Noah. But -- but in the U.K., in England, guess what? You saw it, can you believe it? It's Muhammad, and my guess is that most of the Muhammads are in fact Muslims. So--
GUTFELD: What about Noah? Noah is No. 4. You should be happy about that. He had an arc.
GUILFOYLE: Did this "One More Thing" get approved?
BECKEL: Yes.
BOLLING: We've got to go. That's it for us. "Special Report" on deck.
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