Black leaders doing a disservice to Ferguson community?

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Black leaders doing a disservice to Ferguson community?

'The Five' react to a night of violence following grand jury decision

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 25, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News alert, I'm Eric Bolling. Chaos rang out in the aftermath of the Ferguson decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burn this (beep) down. Give me the mic. Burn this (beep) down. Burn this (beep) down. Burn this (beep) down.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: Well, that was Michael Brown's stepfather and burn it did as 25 structure fires ripped through the Ferguson night. Smoke, tear gases, 61 arrests followed, a night, a violent protest are made calls for calm. The face of racial discord in America, MSNBC host Al Sharpton traveled the Ferguson and didn't disappoint. Instead of setting a calming tone, Sharpton called for further protests in Missouri and throughout America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: We are going to continue to pursue justice. And this is not a Ferguson problem. This is a problem all over the country. Nash (ph) action network, NACP, you guys heard (ph) league all of our members are coming out, we will determine an ongoing strategy that will include mass and regular marches, legislation and economic world class. We will not turn around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So Bob, now that the Ferguson decision may hand it down and that the Ferguson is still in chaos. Where the black leaders? If they stepped up, they could calm the tone, doesn't sound that they're calming tone at all.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, I mean, we talked about this yesterday. The problem is there really are no black leaders to have that kind of influence, let's say, Martin Luther King at, you have it since -- you know Ferguson (ph) might be, if you.

BOLLING: I hate the chaotic yell the police. (ph) Isn't President Obama a black leader, isn't Eric Holder a black leader? They could have come out and say, "You know what? The grand jury has spoken, there's no indictment."

(CORSSTALK)

BECKEL: This executive (ph) president says my son that was an eloquent statement he made last night. He said that this we live by the rule of law, now -- and that's true. Now the problem of course is, that for this community, that they had their minds made up about this facts or no facts, before, most of them, I mean they're a lot of these people were demonstrating peacefully, we're from Ferguson. Because, they have some substandard schools, and these guys just don't get, they've got to have a police department that reflects their community.

BOLLING: Greg, I listen to President Obama. Here's what I heard, we still have work to do. We've come, we've come away but we still have work to do. I'm not sure that's the right -- the right tone to strike.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, I -- I thought he did it great - - he actually repeated almost for bait him. What Giuliani said, he said that police -- in minority neighborhoods, where more -- minorities are dying, cops are valuable there, and I -- agree with Bob, I think it was about, but here's -- here's a bigger problem. The media keeps describing this as an angry reaction, but I watched this all last night on Ustream, which are channels that were used by the protesters. The truth was -- a lot of the people weren't angry, they were having fun, they were openly talking to police, they were bragging about everything, they are having a great time because let's face it, anarchy and chaos is fun and this is where I go -- I go back to President Obama. He can't reach these rioters, we'd like to think because he's a black leader, and some of these rioters are black, that he can reach them. But, this isn't a race riot this is basically plan -- targeted mayhem by criminal opportunists. Criminals don't take advice, they take televisions, and so -- no matter what President Obama says at this point, I don't think he had any effect on those people jumping up and down. I think that for them, this is the purge.

BOLLING: So, OK.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: What about the beginning of this though, right? BOLLING: Well, right after the decision K.G., there was a bit of a pause, and everyone say, where's the National Guard? Remember Jay Nixon saying he was going to bring in the National Guard. The National Guard wasn't present. Now, earlier today on Fox News, Peter Kinder, the lieutenant governor who happens to be a Republican, said that, he was expecting the National Guard as well, but he thought, maybe Jay Nixon responded to Obama and Holder and didn't bring in the National Guard.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Benny (ph) lose his job, because what about all the people that loss their business and although looting was going on by yes, criminal opportunity, it's disgusting. This wasn't about an 18-year-old that died on an n officer whose life been on the line, they've going to to live the rest of his life in fear. These are people and their looting from the beauty supply store. Stealing tennis shoes, all it's shameful behavior, and even on behalf of the stepfather, jumping up and down trying to fight violence, saying burn this town. It's, it's so disturbing on so many levels. I want to take you back before when this all started, because that was in this whole domino effect this way, trampling through Ferguson and through this country, by the race baiters and people calling all this injustice and all incorrect information coming out. There was no outcome that was really going to satisfy -- but what like Al Sharpton, I think they in fact, wanted this to be able to be something that they could have a loud voice on, to stir the pot, and they poke the cage and say what a horrible country we are and really diminish all -- the forward movement that we've made together in terms of civil right.

BOLLING: Can I get you the toretles (ph)

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: To couple of comments. One on son (ph) and one -- false scream. It didn't stop Al Sharpton, listen to the local -- she was in local elected official, a Ferguson committee woman and Missouri state senator, claiming racism was behind the acquittal of Officer Darren Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICIA BYNES, FERGUSON COMMITTEEWOAMN: Tonight is another display of what American justice looks like for those of us who are black and brown.

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, MISSOURI STATE SENATOR: Not only has this Mike Brown movement revealed the true intentions of people in police departments across the state, but I have to tell you, that there has been systematic racism institutionally and state government and for decades. This is St. Louis's race war. We didn't have a race war, like other race wars throughout the country, this is our race war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And the chairwoman of the congressional black caucus, congresswoman, Congresswoman Marcia Fudge, further fueling the unrest when she said, quote, "It's a miscarriage of justice, this decision seems to underscore an unwritten rule that black lives hold no value, that you may kill black man in this country without consequence or repercussions. This is a frightening narrative for every parent and guardian of black and brown children and another setback for race relations in America."

BECKEL: That Eric.

BOLLING: I got to get Dana here Bobby.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Just go ahead, almost fine Bob.

BECKEL: No, go ahead, I'm sorry, don't know who comment on.

PERINO: Well, -- I'm not, you know -- I can't put myself in her shoes, per se, I can try, I can try to be empathetic, I can try to understand. She said it's frightening for black and brown children, I ask of the thing, it's frightening for America. I think that all the progress that has been made, as President Obama has said, we have a lot more to do, and Eric Holder said they've got more to do. In the meantime, number one, -- it's not as it didn't have warning that this was going to happen, it's like, not a seven day forecast, this is a -- like a several month forecast, that they knew it was going to happen. There will be a question about the National Guard because, think about all those business owners, have they've been paying into and investing in that community through their taxes, their time and their willingness to be there, and grow their businesses a lot of good people, remember when this first happened, all the good -- all the good about Ferguson came out.

GUILFOYLE: They love Ferguson.

PEIRNO: This is -- that the one thing that they've got to figure out a way to do is to stop the initial problem, and then we can talk about the healing, but until they do that, I don't think anybody can have a rational conversation about it.

BECKEL: Let me just tell you, that these people -- these elected officials were talking to their base and their base believes that. They believe it's not safe to be a black child in America, they believe it's not safe when you face what's likely because at that.

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're, they're right when you look at black on black crime.

BECKEL: Wait a second, wait a second. I'm just trying, I'm just trying to give you what I think is their perception.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BECKEL: And the perception is that they do -- they do think they're singled out for harassment and I think the problem they started with some of the worst policing I've ever seen, that Ferguson police chief blew it at the first night, take it was a tense down the street.

BOLLING: All right.

BECKEL: And wait, wait a second, wait a second. And then I'm going to bring in state police black router (ph) to take the thing over, because these are incompetent fool.

BOLING: Fine but...

GUTFELD: But I think, wait a second, I think -- I would love to see Bob's rage -- the above level for the looting and the destruction of those -- of those law abiding businesses, then the police officer who is actually have to go out there and actually slip there and try to stop it.

BECKEL: I was thought at the first night to said, so I'm not -- listen, these people look advantage of breaking into these stores, you know -- you're right, they probably don't care much about this kid, but in the community, the community believes that they deserve of that.

BOLLING: Bob, they are literally hours after the decision was given, and we have a state senator, a congresswoman, and an elected -- councilwoman and a congresswoman who are basically saying, it's not over, it this is not done, we let --

PEIRNO: It no matter what the evidence was.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think that we've -- one thing we have not, the word that was not been used so far even in this segment is evidence. And you had not a bit of it that came back to say they had three -- how many people Kimberly? Was it nine? Three African-Americans, three white people, they all said there is not enough evidence here to indict, so why perpetuate the myth that there is enough. In this particular case -- maybe there are bigger, broader problem of racism, but not in this particular case, this is not the one that they're going to -- they're not going to win this battle.

GUILFOYLE: They're making it up here.

PERINO: They found this one.

GUILFOYLE: They're bad example to them.

GUTFELD: But I think, I think you guys are all -- you're all saying the same thing. Bob, it is Bob, your saying thing their -- they have an invested belief in a specific feeling and no facts will satisfy because the perception to them is real and therefore, evidence is just -- for its fabricated. It had to be fabricated.

BECKEL: That's the right word. They believe this evidence.

GUILFOYLE: Evidence is inconvenient.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: No, no wait, wait a second. For the -- for black who live in this - - they believe this evidence was tarnished from the start.

GUILFOYLE: What else if they read the grand jury of evidence information.

BECKEL: No.

BOLLING: Will you, will you do that? Hold on.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I'm just saying.

BOLLINGL: Why would have a lie -- why would -- why is it OK for elected officials --

GUILFOYLE: It's not.

BOLLING: To come out within hours of the decision and stoke the flames.

BECKEL: Because, because Eric, they don't believe this. They don't believe that was the right decision. They had decision they believe maybe for once -- it was like O.J. Simpson, when everybody -- every black applauded O.J. Simpson --

BOLLING: There was no right decision other than to indict Officer Wilson, matter what, no matter how much the evidence show differently.

GUILFOYLE: And you have a chance.

BOLLING: If you get indicted --

BECKEL: You got, you got to remember something Officer Wilson has had a lot of support, I -- I know the guy was probably afraid, but he's going to make money, write a book and that kid is six feet under the ground.

BOLLING: Bob, I'm not even talking about it. I'm not talking about the people and the racial divide that was going on.

GUILFOYLE: What are you're talking about? You are going on the facts that night. That kid beat up a store owner too and he committed a robbery that no one wants to talk about that either.

BOLLING: I'm talking about --

GUILFOYLE: Give me a break.

BOLLING: Officials in this community should be looking to get the community back together, not to continue to divide it and maybe stoke some more flames. Look, we're seeing right now, we're seeing across the country, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Ferguson, more violent it's a trap. (ph)

BECKEL: It's I'm trying to say and say there is to go comeback together and come down, everything is fine. They would crawl on to stairs.

BOLLING: I will tell you President Obama did and Eric Holder, maybe all these people did -- maybe. If I'm, if I'm black, and I'm angry, and I want to know and I hear the elected officials, these people who I look up to saying, you know what? It's time for calm, we had our moment in court, it's time for calm. Maybe I don't right, maybe.

GUTFELD: The other problem here is -- again, I have to go back to watching, I wasn't watching any of the networks that was on Ustream. I know -- I never saw so many people casually bait the police and the violence. So wasn't injustice or feeling that something was wrong, there was an element of society that has been coerced into disrespecting authority. So what happens -- you can't meet, you can't meet if they do not respect you, they believe for the last 40 years that the police are corrupt.

BOLLING: Correct.

GUTFELD: And awful. So that -- there is no way that they can actually meet. So instead, they go out, these -- the agitators go out and they aide the police on who just sit there and stand there. There is no, there's no meeting of the minds.

BECKEL: That's right. But 70 percent of the blacks in Ferguson stay at home.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: Right. And they, they still believe, it was a bad decision.

GUTFELD: Yeah, right.

BECKEL: But they weren't there right, they're going to take advantage of it, certainly.

BOLLING: Let's take a listen to, there were a few voices of reason coming from the black community, one came from our very own Juan Williams. Thank God for one sensible analysis of the Ferguson decision, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL POLITICAL ANALYST: The grand jury decision I think clearly left a lot of people unsatisfied, there's a dead young man, even if he was sluggish or whatever you want to do, shot six times. But, the grand jury seems to have followed the law and we have to follow the law in this country so, how do you make something good come out of it? Where is Al -- where is Al Sharpton? Absent. Where is Jesse Jackson? You know, now that you need leadership on the ground, being constructive, productive, I don't see it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, it's the -- well, I think what he's getting at is a moral investment in communities which require citizens to participate in their own policing, which is a two way street. You can't say all the police aren't hiring blacks, if there are enough blacks that are willing to work for the police department. It's almost like Bob, when we talk about peaceful versus radical Muslims, they're up -- they're bad apples that change the world for everybody and the violent element will never be fixed in any of these groups, whether it is bad cops or agitators or rioters or radical Muslims. You can never change a bad apple, what you can only do is return to condemning evil, rather than glossing over it under the rhetoric of injustice.

BOLLING: Let me ask Bob this question. Greg points out the moral investment in the community, where is the moral investment in the community to ask for and to highlight and to call for more education rather than healing.

BECKEL: Listen, I -- I believe that most of the people who live in that community are peaceful people who want a resolution.

BOLLING: I'm talking about the leaders.

BECKEL: The -- the problem is, that the leaders, if they stood up there and said, this was a bad -- this was a correct decision, say what Juan said, it would be a good thing to say, they've been laughed off to stage.

BOLLING: How is this -- Greg, Greg.

PERINO: Who cares if you get laughed off the stage?

GUILFOYLE: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So what are we supposed to do?

BOLLING: Listen, Greg is 100 percent right. There is no moral investment in community by the black leaders, they did the investment is in their own race-baiting.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: That perpetuates their income, that's were -- that it is.

GUILFOYLE: Why don't they go and do Officer Wilson shift just one night, go his -- take his care and go and see what he has to deal with. Is this just such ignorance and lack of information, they don't want to hear the facts, the grand jury has

BECKEL: That's because the facts are always running against them, come on.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh, Bob.

BECKEL: Oh yeah?

PERINO: That's ramekin (ph)

GUILFOYLE: This is not the case. This is not the case.

BOLLING: We, we -- you know what we're going to do? We're going to get in into the facts, and next block, the prosecutor in Ferguson reveals the details behind the grand jury's decision to not indict Officer Darren Wilson, we're going to analyze his explanation, when The Five returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Before mayhem hit the streets in Ferguson last night, St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch was a Democrat, laid out a detailed explanation as to just how much the grand jury process in reaching their decision -- not to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: They met on 25 separate days in the last three months, heard more than 70 hours of testimony from about 60 witnesses, they heard from three medical examiners and experts on blood, DNA, toxicology, firearms and drug analysis. They examined 100 of photographs. They were instructed on the law and presented with five indictments raging from murder in the first degree to involuntary manslaughter. They determined that no probable cause exist to file any charge against Officer Wilson.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: In light of the newly revealed evidence of the case, should people have more or less confidence in the grand jury's decision? Let's talk about that now. So, we've heard a lot of people throughout the day talking about the evidence, but guess what? We don't have to speculate now because, the district attorney in my opinion, as former prosecutor who put homicide cases in front of the grand jury, laid out so much detail that he didn't have to, that's one responsible move to make sure the people understood that there wasn't speculations hopefully, to prevent rights of things they happen or loss life or loss of property damage, Eric. And, laid it all out, and the grand jury had five options to be able to consider to say that if they want to indict and they said -- no indictment.

BOLLING: Murder in the first all the way down to.

GUILFOYLE: Manslaughter.

BOLLING: Manslaughter. And -- look, here's the thing, 60 separate witnesses, 70 hours of testimony -- massive amounts of conflicting stories, and if you listened to McCulloch, he was fantastic by the way he laid it out very meticulously.

GUILFOYLE: Really good job.

BOLLING: Very good. But, a Democrat -- there's no partisan line here, he laid it out and he showed that there was not consistency of the story to even get and go after a manslaughter conviction. So, they back away and they voted against that.

GUILFOYLE: And witnesses is changing the story from people who would said he was hit was on the ground with his -- on his knees with his hands up, Oh, no, they didn't say that anymore.

BOLLING: In summary, I would say the grand jury system worked, it worked there. The only question that I would even begin to ask is who -- I don't even know this, who picked the grand jury? I don't know.

PERINO: Random.

GUILFOYLE: You get -- yes, random.

BOLLING: It's not supposed to reflect the community that, that.

GUILFOYLE: No, what happens is -- you get a summons to go to show and go for be on the grand jury, and then you'll go and tell see if you can serve, but basically, and they'll take anybody.

BOLLING: The only concern I would have is -- nine whites and three blacks on, on the grand jury, that would be the only thing.

BECKEL: And the tough part of the thing.

GUILFOYLE: They have anything to do with it. Unless is someone.

BECKEL: They have to move to sit for three months. I mean, it is -- there is just one phase here.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. They have multiple juries.

BECKEL: The grand jury has to sit for a long time.

BOLLING: Right, right, right.

GUILFOYLE: We'll fix that tomorrow (ph)

BECKEL: But, you know the things that surprise me was -- first of all, the shot in the hands that everybody talked about, happened in the police car.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

BECKEL: Right? He reached in and grabbed for the gun and the officer shot the gun, OK. Nobody knew that so late yesterday during the day, so I'm not surprised that the community was not aware of that. But what to see the south that have been struck me was Wilson's own lawyer, comes out and makes a statement saying how great the grand jury was and he never once mentioned this kid or his family, I found that outrageous.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Why I don't know where you going on with that, because right now.

BECKEL: Well, it's don't you think it's.

GUILFOYLE: Think it's about the facts and the evidence. So, we -- I'm going to take it back to the car where -- you're going to a good direction here. Because, we found out something that we didn't know before, that he was shot in the hand. We also found out that the forensics were very compelling and told a story that was consistent with a story that Officer Wilson gave, and keep in mind, Bob, Officer Wilson who was the target -- subject of this grand jury and investigation had no obligation on whatsoever to go forward, put himself on the line for four hours and testify and answer every single question that they have.

BECKEL: What do you mean an obligation?

GUILFOYLE: You, you don't have to testify and put a case against you. He absolutely had no obligation whatsoever, in fact, I've never even seen in the cases I had with the person who was the subject of the grand jury investigation came forward and answered questions. They'll come forward and sit like this, and if Greg was on there, Dana or Bolling or you, you can submit questions to ask the officer. So it's not just the prosecutor, the grand jury can proper questions and say, this is what we want to know, tell us what you thought, and he had to go through the whole rendition of the evidence, and in fact, then they had all the ballistics. This was as extensive as an actual jury trial for murder charges the fact they went this far. The Stamford grand jury, probably (ph) more likely than not that a crime has been committed and Officer Wilson is the one responsible.

BECKEL: If you had the .

GUILFOYLE: It's slow compared to beyond a reasonable doubt.

BECKEL: You, you believe -- I tell you how believe these people think. Just most of us -- does anybody believe that O.J. Simpson was -- did not kill that woman?

PERINO: Right.

BECKEL: Of course we did.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: They bad job of prosecuting. (ph) That's exactly what they feel about this seven (ph)

GUTFELD: Well, OK.

PERINO: Greg.

GUTFELD: To on to, to Bob's point. The more -- as more evidence came out, intended to undermine the emotional component.

PERINO: Correct.

GUTFEDL: Of the outraged. However, if it's all emotion then the evidence doesn't matter. And that is born from a problem that happens, not only in Ferguson but with immigration where activists create a false conflict between justice and safety, that if you want a secure community, somehow that's going to create an injustice against black males or illegal immigrants. But, I believe in most law abiding people believe that security doesn't mean right infringement, that you can have policing and you can have a safe community that works together. Just because you have more cops, doesn't mean you have less justice, but when you create that false conflict, you end up with an emotional base argument that leads nowhere, but to violence.

GUILFOYLE: Dana.

PERINO: I was actually going to ask you, Kimberly, that in -- you sometimes you'll have a hung jury, where the jury could not come to agreement, that's after something case has gone to a trial. And the grand jury, it doesn't appear that there was any split decisions, that what we know that?

GUILFOYLE: But we won't know because, the secret proceedings that we're not suppose to find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if we heard something, you know, through the great fine on this --

BECKEL: Does this mean the analysis that is.

GUILFOYLE: No, is it not. So, this is -- it's interesting but again, you know, Bob, we can't say this all of the grand jury was racist, I mean, they look and try

BECKEL: No, no all of this, I'm just to answer the question.

GUILFOYLE: Just look the evidence it's online, and you read them.

BECKEL: So it's the majority voted the grand jury right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, you don't have to have, you know.

GUTFELD: They're not racist, they're evidentists.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BECKEL: What's that evidentists.

GUILFOYLE: All right, next on The Five. Can the rioters who torched buildings and looted stores in Ferguson really claimed they're out for justice for Michael Brown? Well, you're going to hear it from Greg, is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: To when buildings burn, any sympathy left goes up in smoke, as you heard protesters bragging about the attention, taunting the police, deciding which building to burn. I realized that it wasn't really about injustice, it was a can do it for destruction, a time to break things that aren't yours, and take things that aren't yours. Rachel conflict became an excuse for the purge. A free for all of looting, vandalism and fun.

You've got to love creeps who scream for justice after torching a car. And any tool wearing a Guy Fawkes mask is almost always a white male in his late 30s who still air-guitars to Rage Against the Machine. Chances are he didn't have to get up for work this morning, because he doesn't work.

But if one burns businesses to the ground in your community, what does that say about your investment in that community? No person who loves Ferguson would burn Ferguson. Of course they are outsiders, but outsiders are simply those out for themselves. It wasn't their Walgreens that burned, and there is no value if it doesn't cost you. Looting is redistribution on meth.

But what of the other outsiders? The press who flocked to Ferguson, hoping to capture the story in one stark image? That's their job. But it's an ugly game we perpetuate: we go and they perform. And when all that's left are cinders, we can return to our cities. Our stores and our cafes will be fine. But Ferguson is done. It's dead, and you can't blame the cops for that.

So Eric, I want to just play this Ferguson prosecutor saying the most significant challenge is us. Roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS PROSECUTOR: The most significant challenge encounters in this investigation has been the 24-hour news cycle and its insatiable appetite for something, for anything to talk about, following closely behind with the nonstop rumors on social media.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Does he -- does he have a point?

BOLLING: I think he does. I mean, you know, you see the fire. You see the car start to shake. Everyone looks up. When the cameras go there, the ratings go like this, so we continue to do that. And the people realize that they're on TV, and they continue to do that. Self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess.

We turn the cameras off, I guess it stops. But why do you turn the cameras off? I mean, you know, we talk a lot about freedom of the press, freedom of speech. We want to know what's going on. And we, for one, would like to know what's going on in Ferguson, rather than not knowing. It's tough. It's a tight rope.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's an unspeakable truth, Kimberly, that people go out and do this stuff, because it's actually fun. And we watch it because it's interesting.

When I was looking at it, I was looking at our news stream, which was really bizarre, because they had commercials in between the riots. In between destruction, there was Allstate insurance commercials. Which was weird. But my point is, I saw more people with cameras...

BOLLING: And ironic, by the way.

GUTFELD: It was very ironic. But I saw more people filming than actually protesting.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Because it becomes a whole spectacle. And they'll go and they'll film, and it sort of feeds upon itself. Right? It's like it's chasing a tail, just around and around in a circle.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Eventually, though, Rome stops burning. And then we go away, and what's left? Ferguson in tatters with bad administration, the governor who should have had the National Guard out but was probably listening too much to an administration, to say, "Hey, don't put them out. Then you'll be guilty of militarizing it. Then you'll be part of the problem." That's the deal.

You know what? If you care about Ferguson, you love Ferguson, sign up to be part of the fire department. Sign up -- try and put yourself forward, you know, to try and be part of the police department. Show that you care about the communities and the people and about making a change, being a positive force for change instead of just complaining and rioting and stealing things that aren't yours.

BECKEL: But that's -- you know, the thing about this, getting back to the majority of the people in Ferguson, the worst thing that happens to people who want a real dialogue about what the underlying problems are here, is this stuff, because it leaves people fed -- the people who want to believe that this is what happens in black communities when you have riots like this, that these guys represent most of the community. They don't.

Nobody sat down and -- if we could take the time to sit down and talk about education underlying, the infrastructure, the police, that goes out the window as soon as they start burning stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Why doesn't Al Sharpton talk about that? Why doesn't he get up and make a scene and talk about getting involved and giving back to black communities?

BECKEL: Well, that's -- that's -- well, again -- again, you have to ask yourself whether Al Sharpton's constituency is more the guys throwing those Molotov cocktails or the people sitting in their houses.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he's the verbal one.

GUTFELD: I had an idea, Dana, and you can tell me -- I thought it would have been cool, if perhaps there was a center where all the business owners could have gone to watch what was unfolding with the media, so the media would have sat there with the people watching their own communities get destroyed. And what affect would that have had on the rest of us watching it?

PERINO: Rather than the cameras waiting to see people who were burning things down?

GUTFELD: Right. Yes.

PERINO: I like it. But I do think it's a catch-22, right? There's no doubt that in the future, even if none of the cable channels or none of the networks had sent reporters there, now there is a whole new dimension for prosecutors, for police, for agitators, for community members.

When you are able to be your own producer.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: As you were saying that you were watching Ustream. I didn't even know what that was until you sent the email to me, and then I checked it out. You're not going to -- you're not going to need to have the filter. The journalism -- the journalism is the part that's the most important.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: In my opinion. But journalism versus advocacy are two different things, and I think the line got blurred last night.

GUTFELD: Yes. All right. Speaking of journalism, if you want to Google a good story, "Change the Game" by Sonni John -- Sonni Johnson. It's ten questions citizens of Ferguson should ask outside agitators. It's one of the best things written about what happened last night. You should check it out.

PERINO: She writes from -- she writes from such a -- well, obviously, the perspective of a black woman, but also from the heart.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: She's got a raw style that is some of the best writing that you'll see on this.

GUTFELD: Yes. And she's -- you'll see her on FOX.

PERINO: You will.

GUTFELD: Up next, an update from FOX's Steve Harrigan, who was up close with the mobs on the street of Ferguson last night. Is more chaos in store for tonight? We'll preview when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: This is a FOX News alert, the situation in Ferguson quickly spiraled out of control after the grand jury's decision was announced last night. FOX's Steve Harrigan was at the center of the storm as shots rang out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Eight shots, nine shots. Let's go back. Back, back, back, back, back. Back, multiple shots fired. Back now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And moments later, a masked looter smashed Steve's camera on live TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: All right, you heard that, those watching at home, this is live television. How about those people who have masks on like that guy. How many people are covering themselves? Uh-oh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Steve joins us from Ferguson with more on his experience last night and what he expects tonight.

Steve, you've covered conflicts all around the world. Last night you found yourself in the middle of another one. Tell us what that was like and how you feel about how things are shaping up for this evening?

HARRIGAN: You know, it felt probably the scariest I've ever been in the U.S. I've had sort of bad feelings in a town in Pakistan, bad feelings in Afghanistan, but really, to be surrounded in Missouri, I didn't see it coming. I didn't think it would get that bad. By the end of the night, the whole street was in flames.

If you see where we are now, we're in what was a used car lot yesterday, and these cars were smashed and burned pretty much all night.

If you go further down the street, a payday loan store has been burned. This Conoco gas station also burned. So this is really what people are waking up to seeing today. A lot of them coming out to take pictures, as well, Dana.

PERINO: Greg, you have a question for Steve?

GUTFELD: Yes. You -- what was your impression of police? You seemed that you might have been pretty critical of the response last night?

HARRIGAN: Yes, I probably was critical. I figured, just in my amateur, you know, ignorant point of view, I figured they had three months to prepare for possible unrest, and the street I was standing on when up in flames. So I thought that was a real show of incompetence by law enforcement last night. Perhaps more by their higher ups than the police themselves, who were doing the best they could.

They were getting -- there were shots fired, shots fired at night, 100 gunshots. It's hard to -- it's hard to go off into the darkness when that's happening.

BECKEL: Hey, Steve, this is Bob Beckel. Did you get a sense that the people doing most of the looting and throwing these cocktails were not Ferguson people; they were outside agitators? Or was it just not that clear?

HARRIGAN: I think it's not clear when you're just on the street. If you look at the police reports the next day, I think probably about 80 percent of the arrests for burglary were inside Ferguson last night. So it seemed like a lot of locals, at least according to arrest records last night, Bob.

BOLLING: Hey, Steve, I believe law enforcement said they're going to bring in the National Guard tonight. Are you seeing any presence of the National Guard yet, and if so, does it look like it's going to be substantial? What's your sense for tonight, let's put it that way?

HARRIGAN: You know, I think there's the stance -- I saw some police officers in Target today buying gloves. And they said, "We're going to bring it tonight," sort of off the record. And I sense that there was a sense of failure, a sense almost of embarrassment by the performance last night and I think a real calling from the mayor and everybody else: "We want more troops out on the street. We don't want to see this happen again."

So I think we're going to see a very strong, visible presence by law enforcement tonight, and I think a lot of people are hoping for that.

PERINO: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Steve, when you saw the mayhem and the violence that was erupting in Ferguson, at what point where you like, where is the National Guard, because that was promised, a state of emergency declared a week ahead and then all of a sudden, like crickets, nothing -- no one showed up?

HARRIGAN: Yes, especially early on. It was -- we were pretty much surrounded early on, too, and I was looking myself for some police officers to see, maybe to help us out. We were in sort of a risky situation with people calling me Darren Wilson; "You look like Darren Wilson." I was like, "Where are the police?"

And, you know, to see firefighters under threat, too. They actually had police who because there were actually people taking shots at firefighters. So...

GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable.

HARRIGAN: You know, it's pretty stunning to see the whole thing go up in smoke last night.

BECKEL: Hey, Steve, this is Bob again. Do you know -- When you said three months to get ready for this thing, and I think that's exactly right. I mean, these are strip centers that are burning here. They had to know they were the targets of these firebombs. And yet, I didn't get a sense that there were police lining in front of those buildings.

HARRIGAN: No, there weren't. Perhaps there was, like, this cooling off period to let them demonstrate peacefully. But I think the bigger question is, if the police, the authorities, were so unprepared and so underestimated the opponent, it really, I think, shows the bigger question. They don't really know the people here. They don't really know the anger in their own community. There's just a huge gap here between people.

I mean, I've had people come up to me just now. It's like where do you come from? You know, why? Why are you taking pictures? See? He's swearing at me right there out of the car. You know? It's just whoa.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That was Anderson Cooper.

HARRIGAN: Yes.

PERINO: Steve, I have a question, because earlier on, we were talking about what leaders could possibly say anything that would make a difference. From -- and maybe you don't have enough intel, but who on the ground, are you hearing that there would be anyone that could say anything, even if it was President Obama, that could help calm the situation?

HARRIGAN: Yes. I don't know the answer to this. I just -- you know, this is a group, especially the younger males. This is a group that I don't think is going to listen to a lot of the old-time leadership. This is just -- this is a gap or a gulf that, you know, I don't bump into all that often in the U.S.

PERINO: All right, Steve. We appreciate you being on "The Five."

When we come back...

HARRIGAN: Thank you.

PERINO: ... President Obama addressed the nation on the Ferguson grand jury's decision last night. Did he set the right tone, and should he head to Ferguson himself? We're going to talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Last night President Obama called for calm after the grand jury in Ferguson decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. But that didn't stop violence from erupting, even as the president was speaking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are real issues.

And we have to lift them up and not deny them or try to tamp them down. What we need to do is to understand them and figure out, how do we make more progress? And that can be done. That won't be done by throwing bottles. That won't be done by smashing car windows. That won't be done by using this as an excuse to vandalize property. And it certainly won't be done by hurting anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Here's more from the president on -- from the president on the root of the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The fact is in too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. So of this is the result of the legacy of racial discrimination in this country. And this is tragic, because nobody needs good policing more than poor communities with higher crime rates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: All right. Dana, what did you think about his tone?

PERINO: Well, I think that the president had -- I think that was the right call for him to make a statement last night. I think it's unfortunate that he -- it was reported that he did not watch the prosecutor's -- McCulloch's statement. And I think that would have helped the president maybe -- rather than just being brief.

He's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. If he had not come out and spoken, then people would have said, "Why didn't he come out and speak?" and that that led to more rioting.

I think that, in some ways, his tone is just -- you know, he's being himself. And I could have wished for him to be a little stronger. But I think, on balance, it was the right decision that he made.

BECKEL: You're usually very critical of the president. You see anything there that you liked?

BOLLING: The first half. The first sound bite, he called for calm. And he did exactly what we would hope the president would do, calm -- the breaking windows, throwing bottles, breaking car windows does no one any good.

But the second half, the second sound bite, which is part of that same press conference, he goes into the racial divide and how the law enforcement in communities of color that are on a divide and he highlights the divide that is at the very center of what's going on in Ferguson. There's a time to do that. In my opinion it wasn't, you know, 20 minutes after a jury -- grand jury decides not to indict Officer Wilson.

BECKEL: Well, you could -- it also depends on whether you believe that to be true or not.

OK, let's go to Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Fine. So here's the problem. I just don't think he should have been highlighting the issue, you know, of race. I think he had a calm tone, OK.

However, as a prosecutor who worked in communities that are heavily stricken with violence, gang violence and stuff, I had so many amazing witnesses from those communities that cared deeply that were minority, African-American and Latino communities that came forward because they wanted something to be done. And they were deeply appreciative of the police officers there making it safe for their children to be able to go to school, for them to be able to go to work in the morning.

So you know what? Make sure you know what you're talking about before you say something like that that's not going to help a situation like this.

BECKEL: Greg, we don't have much time, because it's my block, but please go ahead.

GUTFELD: Yes, kind of agree with Eric. I think -- I think that the first part was -- there needed to be a second part to the mistrust. For example, policing is not a one-way street.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-huh.

GUTFELD: No one is trying to keep blacks off the force. There are decades of denigration of law enforcement among -- among the black community. They don't trust -- like you said, they don't trust cops. But at a certain point, we've got to get over that. You've got to integrate. You've got to integrate.

Giuliani has done it. There are other cities that have done it. So it's time for that.

BECKEL: OK. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right, it's time for "One More Thing." I'm going to kick it off. If you didn't see it last night, this was really heartwarming. Watch Sadie Robertson, the daughter of our good friend, Willie Robertson, on "Dancing with the Stars" last night. She crushed it. Tonight -- I believe the finals are tonight. Hopefully, she wins, but take a look at Willie Robertson's response. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BERGERON, HOST, ABC'S "DANCING WITH THE STARS": Your dad was really moved by it, too, over there.

SADIE ROBERTSON, REALITY TV STAR: Is Dad rocking away?

BERGERON: Yes. Head on up for your scores.

ERIN ANDREWS, CO-HOST, ABC'S "DANCING WITH THE STARS": You saw that awesome shot of your dad just getting so emotional. What does everybody's support mean to you?

S. ROBERTSON: I mean, it means to me to have the whole family here cheering me on, my friends texting me. It's just been a blast.

ANDREWS: What are we laughing at? What are we laughing at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really, really special.

ANDREWS: Oh, he's the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: That's really, really heartwarming. The Robertson family, a great family, great people.

All right, K.G., you're up.

GUILFOYLE: Love him to pieces, and she can dance, so there you go. They just don't have duck call ability in that family.

There's nothing I like more than a -- a kiss. So do the Bushes. Take a look at this, because it's so sweet. We have 41 and the former first lady on the kiss cam at the game. This is so romantic and adorable. Look at this. Leaning in. Awwww. After 69 years of marriage, the fire is still alive.

BECKEL: Sixty-nine? Is that right?

PERINO: Good thing that camera three is not a kiss cam for you and Bob.

BOLLING: Oh, God.

GUTFELD: So inappropriate for a family show.

GUILFOYLE: Really?

BECKEL: It really is.

GUTFELD: Physical affection.

BOLLING: Greg's up.

GUTFELD: Anyway...

BECKEL: I would have filed against her anyway.

GUTFELD: It's time for something new.

GUILFOYLE: Against me?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Up with Chuck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes, it's another golden moment with Chuck Todd as he expresses his love for his king.

GUILFOYLE: His king.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: He's a very likable guy. Yes.

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING NOW": I agree.

TODD: He's very friendly. I mean, he's very easy to talk to. You do, you sit here and you have these off-the-record sessions with him. You've had them, and they're just very nourishing conversations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes, very nourishing conversations with President Obama. He's like a delicious cupcake.

BOLLING: I get the "Up with Chuck." Now I understand it.

Dana, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: That was very funny.

PERINO: OK, so, November is National Adoption Month, and there are, according to the Congressional Coalition on Adoption, more than 100,000 children in America who are up for adoption in the United States.

And this family in Nebraska has done their fair share, adopting over -- ten. They're just about to their 10th sibling so to make sure that their own child could have all the brothers and sisters together in one spot. This is an amazing family from Lincoln, Nebraska, the Groves family. So congratulations to them on their new baby, Zayn, and thank you for all you've done. Very sweet. God bless them.

BOLLING: Very good. Bobby.

BECKEL: I want to say to the Barry family, who I well know, Marion Barry was a friend of mine, mayor of D.C. And he and I used to spend many a night together. He was a remarkable politician. He was a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with Copper Sun. he came to D.C. He was elected to mayor three times, then went to jail; came back and got elected again. A lot of people controversial about -- a lot of things are controversial about Marion Barry, but people loved him and I loved him. And I'll miss him.

BOLLING: All right. We'll leave it right there. We won't comment. Just leave it right there.

Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode. That's it for "The Five." "Special Report" on deck. I will see you in a few days.

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