Is President Obama committed to fight against ISIS?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 7, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Katie Pavlich and Greg Gutfeld. The 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Our commander in chief says, "We're going to degrade and destroy ISIS, but if he really committed to the fight." Airstrike haven't stopped the terror network from just raising its black flag near the Syrian city of Kobani. John McCain calls the president's campaign so far, reckless.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: There's a town called Kobani surrounded by ISIS and if it falls, there's gonna be a mass slaughter. And there will be no one better indication of the ineffectiveness and recklessness of this air campaign we're now seeing.


GUIFOYLE: Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters agree that he's accusing President Obama of just launching strike for political reasons.


LT.COL. RALPH PETERS, FOX NEWS STRATEGIC ANALYST: Our president who launched this phony air campaign, basically to absolve him of any blame to get him through -- his party through in November elections. This air campaign has been paltry from the start, he warned them we're coming, he hit empty buildings in the dead of night, he doesn't want casualties, not only civilian casualties, he doesn't even want a lot of dead terrorists.


GUILFOYLE: And it's not just critics from the right, taking the president to task for the continued rise of ISIS, his former defense secretary says, "he should have followed through on that red line he set for Syria."


LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: The most important thing that the president has is the credibility of our word, when he drew the red line in Syria I think it was the right thing to do. But once you draw that line, and he did, then I think the credibility in the United States is on the line, that really somehow began to pull back. I sent a mixed message not only to Assad, not only to the Syrian, but to the world.


GUILFOYLE: There we have it, Leon Panetta, you take.

KATIE PAVLICH, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, I think that the president needs to take a hard look at what the point of this is, I mean he's clearly made a huge mistake by telling the enemy that they -- we're not gonna implement ground troops, because now they have readjusted their strategy, right? They're going into these areas in a way that we can't get to and we have that the question of, "Is this really going to work in a way?" he says, "If we hold on to account to his own statements, which is to degrade and destroy ISIS." First of all, we're not degrading them really and we're certainly not destroying them, they're on the march. And so until President Obama start to treat them like they're not the JV team, they're not gonna act like the JV team. And blowing up a couple of trucks here and there certainly isn't stopping them and we're starting to see them marching as close to Turkey as they're gonna get much we do something else.

GUILFOYLE: Given what we have been doing in air campaign, you would expect at least some better results been said they're taunting, "21 ISIS militants are deceased" so is that we were supposed to clapped about and applaud.

PAVLICH: Right, out of 31,000, right? And that's the other thing if they're still recruiting, people are going over, they're recruiting something like, 5,000 fighters at a time and we're touting this idea that we're killing a couple here and there. I mean, this is a huge problem, and if the United States doesn't want to have a long war, like Philip (ph) always complains about, then we need to get in there and get the job done and get out.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: OK. So now -- unless you guys are right, we got two trucks and 21 big one, I was from campaign for 60 days, I just want to sure your facts right.


BECKEL: Peters by the way, with all due respect, is the most ridiculous comment I've heard anybody make. Because I could not understand it very well but, it is probably called and could be forgiven but the point here is to suggest that the commander in chief will do something like that to get you through a fall election, it's one of the -- it's just -- well, it's somebody that's been out of the military too long.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: But, OK. Two things, President Obama is a political magic 8-ball. Whenever you go to him, every answers there was gonna be political. However, we are talking about American lives and I don't think that he's doing this for political reasons. But when you talk about what critical things are said about Obama, you got to remember what was said about President Bush during the Iraq war and how vile that was to make anything said about President Obama look like a butterfly kiss. This stuff is mile compared to the stuff that was a --


GUTFELD: Preminisce to call Bush, Bush Hitler. But I do think there is point to be made, that the issue is trepidation, and war was supposed to be waged, it's not supposed to be manicured like a Zen garden. And because of this procrastination, the campaign has become less efficient, we're bombing vacant buildings. I called it airaoke, its karaoke air strikes, they -- which are seem more perfunctory than they actually are substantive and I think that's the problem.

BECKEL: You don't believe that's the strategy do you? That they picked out empty.


ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: And that is the problem. Look, I'm gonna agree with what the president is doing with the exception of he has no strategy. What's the end game if you add --

GUILFOYLE: So what are you agreeing with?


GUTFELD: Eric campaign.

GUILFOYLE: That's it.

BOLING: Look, Muslims have been fighting for Jihad for 1,500 years. We're not going to wipe out ISIS, we'll turn ISIS into another form of Jihad, but they will continue to fight it, they'll continue to hate the west, they'll continue to hate anybody who frankly doesn't ascribe to their call of faith. So what is the strategy? Isn't to degrade and destroy? May be that's a little bit too aggressive, may be it should be punish these people for what they're doing. Look, we have two beheaded Americans.

GUILFOYLE: I don't understand this. So you want to put ISIS in the corner, like on a stool and say, "you've got a time out?" That's not gonna work. BOLLING: Here's I wanna do, as of at.

GUILFOYLE: Its punish.

BOLLING: At the beginning of June, the ISIS -- against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, we've hit Syria 104 times air strikes and in Iraq 265 for a total of 1,000 about 1,100 bombs dropped on this group in that period of time. That's not enough, you just go after them, you hit them, hurt them, and if they behead another American, hit them again and hurt them even more. But I just -- I don't know that we have had one American death. We have had one marine who, I believe is considered a casualty of this war so far, of this portion of the war. I'm -- I like that number low.

GUILFOYLE: Well, sure but you know, but do you like terror better? I mean this is the problem.

BOLLING: You never gonna get strategic war and never gonna eradicate terror, we're fools if you think the war on terror is a winnable war, it's a manageable war, but not a winnable war.


BECKEL: Your approach is to recognize its rules are put on the ground here, right?

GUILFOYLE: My approach is to do whatever it takes to get it done. I don't want to hear their name again, I want do their job right so that other generations don't have to suffer from it. And we have the military that has the wherewithal to do it and get it done right. And they're frustrated, marching straight over to Turkey to the border.


BECKEL: This start was out in the empire 2,000 years ago.

PAVLICH: OK. But we're in a position now. We're not just talking about a terrorist group here, a terrorist group there, we're talking about a terrorist group that is 40,000 strong now they are an army and they have two countries that they have taken over and they're not going to stop. They're going to continue on.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, I want to see your eyeballs roll like that.

PAVLICH: Exactly, so there -- we're not talking about some terror group and stopping a small cell here, we're talking about a huge portion of the Middle East that's been taken over. And to Kimberly's point, what is the point here? I mean the president complained and actually pulled the troops out of Iraq in the first place because he said we had been there too long. Why then are we engaged in a campaign that is going to take a long time to get the job done? And this idea that we're gonna take a year to train the moderate Syrians to fight out ISIS when be trained Iraq army couldn't do it. The only people that are capable of doing it is the U.S. military with forces and maybe some of these coalition forces.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think we have a year to wait and waste time.

PAVLICH: Yeah, and they have already taken so much land.

BOLLING: What's ends goal if we win in full force as many boots under, as many troops as we needed. The end goal, will we defeat Al Qaeda and Khorasan and ISIS and all the forms of terrorism in the Middle East least? Or do we just shoot them to another country. That's -- rebirth.

PAVLICH: I think taking out tens of thousands of them is a good start, stopping the recruiting and President Obama listening to his military leaders when they say all of them, pretty much, including people who have left the administration, who worked under both Bush and Obama saying, "this is what you've sweet done (ph) what you're doing is mission impossible" that is something that we can start with.

BECKEL: I don't want to give you a geography lesson, Katie, but if you say the whole chunks of the Middle East, that is ridiculous. It probably less.

PAVLICH: You don't think Syria and Iraq are huge chunks of Middle East?

BECKEL: No, no, not the Middle East.

BOLLING: But they -- they have been won and they been lost and they been won over countless tens of centuries.


GUILFOYLE: I don't know what happened here.

GUTFELD: No, but were actually.

GUILFOYLE: This table is getting sauce and I thank Katie wore her boots.


GUTFELD: We can agree on one thing and that is terror is at a minimum a 30- year war, Panetta is right on that. But that shouldn't keep us for want him to destroy them completely.

HGUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: So I think -- I think you could be right and said this thing is -- is this thing is ongoing, but so was it like getting up in the morning and going to the gym. That killing terrorists is just like going to the gym, you get up, you do what every day to make your life a little better. And we have this -- we have the best killing machine ever created in the history of the world, this is what it is made for, to eradicate evil and evil will always be here, that's the nature of the world.


BECKEL: Are we supposed to take care of the Middle East?

GUILFOYLE: And by the way, and by the way they're ready to answer the call.

GUTFELD: It's our responsibility to eradicate those were a threat to America. And they are a threat to America.


BOLLING: Can I agree to Greg.

GUILFOYLE: They're a direct threat to the United States of America and our military is ready, willing and able to serve. We don't have a draft in this country. We don't have to force people to serve.


BOLLING: I said we all agreeing on the same thing or we're just debating on what method of doing it. GUILFOYLE: So if you think, OK.

BOLLING: We all feel terror.

GUILFIYLE: What? Is not air strike then what?

BOLLING: I said air strikes.


GUILFOYLE: The military commanders have said that's not gonna work.

BOLLING: We have done 400 air strikes in six months, 400. How about 200 a day? I mean, when we went into Iraq, we -- there I think.


BOLLING: There were more than 100 air strikes the first day in Iraq. We have done 400 in six months.

GUILFOYLE: But all the credible experts agree that this is not working, it is woefully insufficient to get the job done.

PAVLICH: The former head of the marine corps, the head of central command, I mean Leon Panetta has said this, Oliver north has said this, I mean, all of the attend (ph) military commanders who are both retired and currently serving have said, a Martin Dempsey came in front of congress and said, "if ground -- if air force are strikes do not work, we will have to send in ground troops" and the American people have said, "we support air strikes and if they fail" which they are failing --

BECKEL: How do you know that? How do you say that?

GUILFOYLE: Bob, are you paying attention? Are you paying attention of what's going on?


GUTFEL: They are moving on. I mean they are about to take another city.

GUILFOYLE: Marching and raising the flag. They've got this open.

BECKEL: I tell you, if I was in New Jersey, I would be worried about it.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? You can make a joke about this, but this is a real threat to the United States.

BECKEL: This is American -- these Americans men and women have to go and fight a war that they should be fighting.


GUTFELD: But they want to.

GUILFOYLE: Give them a chance.

GUTFELD: I think the military is more than happy to hear the media concerned about them, but they are happy to do this, this is the volunteer army and then are trained to do this and they're looking for who -- It may be a holy war for our military as well, not just for them.

GUILFOYLE: But that's what I've been trying to say, I don't understand. They have taken those, and they've signed up, they want to be part of this, they believe in this country, they want to fight for freedom and liberty and for the gains that we achieved in the Middle East.


BOLLING: In the Middle East, that's what this fight is about. And that's part of the problem.

GUILFOYLE: Alright. OK, let's talk about them, let's have Bob's favorite suggest, the administration, President Obama, Biden once again, Biden is the new Bob and this is what he had to say, suggesting last week that Turkey, the UAE and the Saudi support the extremist in Syria. We're gonna take it around.


VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria. The Turks were great friends, the Saudi's, the Emiratis', etcetera. They were so determined to take down Assad, and essentially we have a proxy Sunni-Shia war, what did they do? They poured $100,000,000 and 10,000 tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad, expect to the people who were being -- who were being supply were all in Syria (ph) and Al Qaeda.


GUILFOYLE: Alright, Bolling?

BOLING: Well, he was right.

GUILFOYLE: About the money?

BOLLING: He was right about a lot of things, I mean, we don't really know who we were supplying, we don't know who we were arming and that's part of the problem. It offended some of the Arab coalitions, so he had to make the official anthology, but, look he was -- he was right. Look, you know how I feel about this. You say what you mean, you mean what you say, and ifs -- if you have to apologize, I guess.

GUTFELD: There will never a yell-- what's interesting, though? I have been on this planet for a long time, 20 years. No one ever apologizes to America, nobody says, "hey, guys, sorry about those terrorist that came from our country." I don't get the apologize -- we apologize for everything including the good stuffs we do. When you grade things into this world and then we have to apologize for exporting values that make you live longer.

BECKEL: And that's it -- it is a good point but I mean, let's also say that what Biden said, if anybody here can factually suggest us that Saudi Arabia has not funded terrorism. I mean is what Joe said was the truth the problem is, he shouldn't have said it because it was .

GUKFOYLE: Well, it doesn't help the coalitions that a love sandwich trying to make this work out.

PAVLICH: What Bob, I actually completely agree with you, I was surprised that these countries were offended that we would -- even accuse them of funding terrorism. And of Bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia, let's be real. So the fact were apologizing now to these countries who -- not only a funded terrorist, a Harvard (ph) terrorist, I think it`s right.

BOLLING: If he doesn't apologize, exactly what happens, I'm not sure.

PAVLICH: The coalition falls apart. And they go back to their..

BOLLING: Will they really fall apart?

PAVLICH: Of course, they're looking for any reason to leave the coalition. They wanna leave so bad.

GUILFOYLE: It should be stronger than that it's unfortunate, isn't it? Once again, calling America. Ahead on The Five, an American teen is arrested for trying to join ISIS. Greg, thinks the fed, should let him go.


GUILFOYLE: He's gonna tell us why.


GUTFELD: So imagine you're throwing a party and some obnoxious guest wants to leave. Do you stop him or do you jail him in your garage? Of course not, you toss him out like the stinky garbage he is, which is common sense. I like how we treated the Chicago team busted on O'Hare for trying to join ISIS. Muhammad Hassan Khan, no doubt a tea party or Mr. Affleck, was arrested before heading to Istanbul. If convicted, he'll face 15 years in jail, which really means two, and thanks to prison, when he leaves, he'll be lean and lawyerly. He can sue you and do 100 pushups simultaneously and while in jail, I doubt he'll convert to Buddhism. So I say you let the dude go and follow him to Jihadist land then blow that places with the rings. (ph) It's obvious, a Western Jihadist is an amazing tool for Intel, a tracer that lead you to the target, he's the skeet. More important the straw (ph) had an express a hatred for western values, so we should be grateful that he is leaving. Unlike those who come here and stay with Sharia in mind, we need a martyr exaltation program, where we encourage the mawps (ph) to migrate. And as the self appointed Sally Struthers of infidel support, I'll buy the first one-way ticket to paradise myself. Think about it, for just pennies a day, you too can eliminate a dirt bag, and we'll send you a picture of your adopted martyr, once he's achieved nirvana, although it's probably not suitable for framing. So I think, I mean, there is -- I guess, Katie there is -- there is a logic to keeping him here because there's a fear that if he goes, he'll come back. But aren't we smart enough that when he goes, we can follow him?

PAVLICH: Apparently not. Because the problem that we're facing is that we can't keep these guys from coming back to United States. The way the law is written, they can't -- you can't just stripped off their passport because they haven't run out their citizenship, Ted Cruz introduce legislation about two weeks ago.


PAVLICH: That would have allowed for the stripping of citizenship and therefore the passports and they couldn't come back. So I don't mind letting him go, but we need to work on keeping them there aspect of this, but yeah, following them right away knew the drone can fire it, it's from the airplane. That will work out pretty well.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, why do you put a GPS and put some take their phone, put something on there, trace some, drone them, something charming like that.

GUILFOYLE: You're the James Bond to this show.

PAVLICH: Love it.

GUILFOYLE: I mean honestly, I'm about so constrained perhaps to sit here from 5 to 6, the things I could do.

GUTFELD: But Bob, why didn't we stop them? I don't know.

BECKEL: Listen, an example of the guest being thrown out of the party, I was many, many times.


And they should have let me keep going. I agree with you completely. Look, what it is done, here's the good news about all this, we disagree on how to deal with this right now, but all the major Jihadists in the world are gathering for their conventions, in a relatively small area by the way, and what now we have to -- whether you decide you want to do it with troops I don't think we you should do, we can leave it aside, get let him go.


BECKEL: I mean, I don't -- the idea that we can't track these guys is silly.

BOLLING: You're making a very, very good point. Why not track him? Especially, this guy was gonna go -- the flight he was boarding was gonna go to Turkey. I mean, at least the Turks could follow him.

GUTFELD: Yes, yeah.

BOLLING: It's not like he's going to find his way into Pakistan or Afghanistan and get lost somewhere. We hope that they would pick them up on there on the side. But look what he say, he left a note to his parents saying, "He wanted to fight for ISIS because U.S. taxes were being used to kill Muslim, his Muslim brothers." At that point, I'm going to agree with Katie and Ted Cruz well, you just -- you relinquish your citizenship at that moment. If you're treasonist, you should probably be sent to Gitmo (ph) and then go ahead water board the torch.


GUILFOYLE: Any other country, they don't have this problem. They don't unlock the moral will to be able to do something and say, "Listen, you have committed not to treason against this country, I'm not gonna be worried about hurting your legal feelings, give me your passport, your citizenship is revoked, so be it."

BECKEL: Well that every European country is like that. That's why treason got the problem they got VAT (ph)

GUILFOYLE: No, they don't let people in, guess what?

BECKEL: But they don't.

GUILFOYLE: They don't let everybody come back. Anybody is coming from Liberia.

BECKEL: I know, I know you're a worldwide travel, because I been in terrorist line and it's more Muslim there than they are.

PAVLICH: Well they did it and then they learned their lesson and they.

GUTFELD: Yeah, but it is too late. The genie is out of that bottle.


PAVLICH: You know the FBI is tracking these people they're just tracking them after they go fight for ISIS and come back to the United States and they're saying that they can't necessarily arrest them.

GUILFOYLE: What about a porous border, I would have to say, I would just walk right on over from Mexico.

BOLLING: It's easy to do. If anybody else concerned that -- call me on 60 minutes on Sunday night, we have our eye on 12.

PAVLICH: Exactly.

BOLLING: And I got to do this a lot more on 12.

GUILFOYLE: That's the 12 that they know about.

BOLLING: But he said he knew about all of them and there are 12. (CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: It's not like congress would not know about them and they got out of the country so they can back on test.

GUTFELD: Well here's -- there's this other interesting weird development. This is got to be the first, I guess engagement were -- it's also an online war. Catherine Herridge reported this morning that their ISIS and their sympathizers were threatening an air force pilot and his son on Facebook, they're sworn by sympathizers. This is a new thing, and I don't know how serious you take it, but given the fact that they are encouraging followers to go to military homes and slaughter them, this is just an internet troll.


BECKEL: It's proven, it is proven already, that somebody is listening in, and this is something -- this guy is Oklahoma, all of a sudden then you'll find out that he probably got a lot of his information from those terror networks and web pages. But and by the way, before we leave segment, I wanted to be very clear. I have been the toughest one on this show on Muslims. That anybody.

GUTFELD: Radical Muslims. BECKEL: And nobody said anything about it.

GUILFOYLE: Radical Muslims Jihadists.

BECKEL: As I said before, let me say today, Jihadist.


I was talking about this thing when nobody else was talking about it. And what I wasn't doing was leading the military campaign to get over there. I want you to do that, because you would be great at it.

GUILFOYLE: I'm all got it.

PAVLICH: Can be a done and out if Kimberly was in charge.

GUILFOYLE: And I also would like to military families to stay off of social media and Facebook, we goes, go dark.

GUTFELD: Really?


GUTFELD: That isn't right. That I think they should.

GUILFOYLE: I want them to be safe.

GUTFELD: Why run from trolls?

GUILFOYLE: You know why, because be fell (ph) find a way to serve, find a way to get after them, they'll make it.

GUTFELD: They have to use Facebook to talk to their -- to their husbands and wives who are away, you know?

PAVLICH: Privacy settings. Change them.


GUTFELD: Screw these people. Screw these people that are harassing them.


GUTFELD: Don't let them stop you from what you're doing.

BOLLING: Alright. I think we have it.

GUILFOYLE: Why don't we eliminate them so we don't have this problem anymore? That's what I'm saying.

BECKEL: Every one of them.


GUTFELD: Alright. Coming up, is one of America's most popular TV shows Islamophobic? What some politically correct critics are saying about homeland when he come back.


BOLLING: Well, you all know by now homeland is one of my favorite TV shows. Watch.


UNKWON: We should go.

UNKNOWN: Wait. Wait.


BOLLING: Well, season four kicked off Sunday. The lead character is a CIA agent now stationed in Pakistan. Most critics love "Homeland," but others are panning it, calling it Islamophobic. One writer in The Washington Post just said it's the most bigoted show on television, riddled with basic errors about Islam and filled with absurd stereotypes.

I want to bring it around, Greg. It's a TV show.

GUTFELD: Yes, it is. Can I point out the writer is an activist who writes for The Socialist Worker? So it's not even about Islam. It's not about Islam; it's about being anti-west. This is somebody that is accusing this show, which is approximately for the United States, of racism.

In fact, she says actually "Homeland" perpetuates racist ideas that have real consequences. the accusation of bigotry always arrives as a defense against hate facts. These are the facts that you hate because you cannot dispute them." She cannot dispute so she has to call everybody racist.

BOLLING: Katie, four seasons now, there's a lot of things that are very, very close to what's really going on in the world, and maybe that's what scares people who are worried about things like Islamophobia.

PAVLICH: I think that they just need to distinguish that this is a television show. This is fiction, as you mentioned at the top of the segment. And if there are exaggerations or things that are not true, it's because the show isn't true, and it's written by people based on maybe world events, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Are Brad Thor (ph) books homophobic -- Islamophobic, as well. I mean, there's plenty of literature you can look at that is based on world events and pull any of these things out, whether it's Islam or other situations. So I just think it's ridiculous.

BOLLING: That's part of the problem. It's so close to reality that they feel that...

PAVLICH: Maybe it's -- maybe it's so close to reality that they're uncomfortable, as Greg said, with maybe some of the truth coming out about what they're all about.

BECKEL: That wouldn't be -- if it wasn't for what's going on at the same time is not an issue. It is a TV show. But it's going on at a time of Kimberly's (ph) war. So you're going to get this.

BOLLING: All right. Listen, yesterday we showed you Ben Affleck on a panel with Bill Maher, arguing over public criticism of radical Islam. Last night Bill O'Reilly weighed on in that debate.


BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Militant Islam continues to draw worldwide terrorism, and there are plenty of sanctuaries from which to commit their evil. Ben Affleck should well understand that he himself would be beheaded in a heartbeat by these ISIS animals and that even though they are the most extreme element of the Jihad, they're not that far away from their fanatical cousins.



GUILFOYLE: I mean, here's the problem I have. Islam is a religion. And people keep saying, "Oh, you're racist." Race is talking about a religion? I mean, they don't even understand the terminology. They're making these blanket statements, getting hysterical, throwing it out there instead of understanding the history, understanding the cause, the news, what's going on and the different facets of it. So they're speaking in a way that I find to be very ignorant.

BOLLING: Along these lines of something K.G. just said. People are saying if you're -- if you have a big issue with this, you could be racist instead of Islamophobic. Is one worse than the other?

BECKEL: No. The racist part floors me. You have to keep in mind that this is a religion that these people follow that are killing a religious people, Christians, who were there before many of them.

GUILFOYLE: And they're...

GUTFELD: But they're also killing Muslims. Muslims are killing more Muslims than Christians.

The interesting thing about the writer, The Washington Post article and Ben Affleck is they don't mention radical Islam's attacks on women. And interesting thing also about the article in The Washington Post is the woman mentions that one of the creators is Jewish, and I wonder why she puts that in there.

PAVLICH: Yes, well, I think if we're going to be consistent with western values, both liberals and conservatives, that people like Ben Affleck, if they're really going to be out there parading for gay rights and women's rights, then they should probably speak up against radical Islam where they're hanging gays off bridges and stoning women in the street for going out without the proper headgear.

GUILFOYLE: And this is all in the name of a religion, of using Sharia law and their interpretation of the Koran to justify these heinous crimes that are being committed.

BOLLING: Did you see -- after we talked about this yesterday, did you see Bill Maher explain to Salon what he was really saying? He literally didn't walk back his comment, but he wanted to explain to all his fans, I guess, who are giving him a hard time, why he just seemed so weak and so shallow.

GUTFELD: I think his point is that, if you're a liberal, you should defend liberal beliefs.

BOLLING: Right. Above all. Above all.

GUTFELD: And also if you wanted to make clear that he thinks all religion is stupid, he just finds at the moment Islam is the most potentially harmful or radical Islam is the most potentially harmful of the religions.

BECKEL: Here's the good news. Finally, the Muslim community is beginning worldwide to speak out, and that's a good sign.

BECKEL: All right. We're going to have to leave it there.

Up next, is Colorado's governor second-guessing his state's decision to legalize pot? We'll have that Democrat coming up on "The Five."


PAVLICH: A lot of folks in Colorado are happy the state became the first to legalize marijuana in 2012. But its Democratic governor isn't one of them. John Hickenlooper actually says it wasn't such a good idea and is warning other governors to think twice.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A number of other states are looking at what Colorado has done when it comes to recreational marijuana. Was Colorado's move a mistake?

GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), COLORADO: To do that without having all the data, there is not enough data, and to a certain extent, you could say it was reckless. I'm not saying it was reckless, because I'll get quoted everywhere. But if it was up to me, I wouldn't have done it. I've opposed it from the very beginning. Oh, what the hell? I'll say it's reckless.


PAVLICH: He's going to say it's reckless. So Bob, there are three other states -- well, Washington, D.C. isn't a state -- but Washington, D.C., Alaska and Oregon who are considering -- they're putting this on the ballot next month for legalization. What, do you think they're going to heed his warning? Or do you think they're going to go through?

BECKEL: No, I don't think -- the problem with studies and facts about drugs and alcohol, is that there are so many varying studies that you can find. The idea that there's a definitive study on the impact of marijuana and that it is addictive, which having been down that road myself many times, it is not. Whether it does corrode certain parts of your brain, a lot of things do. Kimberly does to me once in a while.

GUILFOYLE: I definitely improved your brain.

BECKEL: But I just -- I'm a little bit -- this guy said he was -- we needed more facts. Well, facts are facts are facts. Greg, you're the fact guy.

GUTFELD: Well, there's a lot of -- there's a lot of studies that come out, and it's true with Bob, like the percentage of drinkers who become alcoholics is higher than the percentage of pot smokers who become heavy users. You don't hear about that.

Pot's effect on I.Q.'s, they've been saying it lowers your I.Q. But it may be the behavior, the fact that somebody who tends to smoke a lot of dope misses the key information from school that would help you in an I.Q. test. It has to do with the fact that it's stealing time from education.

The fact is, pot does affect your brain, and that's why you shouldn't do it all day, just like booze, sugar and cable TV. All of them will destroy you if you do it 24/7.

PAVLICH: Yes. I want to bring up the study that, it's actually one of the most expensive studies done on marijuana in the past 20 years. It's a 20- year study on the long-term effects of cannabis by professional Wayne Hall. And it's -- he's an advisor to the World Health Organization. He found that one in sixteen -- one in sixteen marijuana users become dependent on marijuana if they use it on a regular basis. Intellectual development is impaired for heavy using teens. It doubles the risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia. So this is a 20-year exhaustive study when all of the other studies we've seen, Kimberly, have been very...

GUTFELD: I hate to use a pun; it's a rehash.

PAVLICH: A rehash?

GUTFELD: It's a rehash. I just went through some of the things that disprove what he said. I'm sorry, go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, this is a great debate. You're engaged in it. I'm happy to hear your voice.

GUTFELD: The percentage of drinkers that become alcoholics is higher. If you look at percentage of who die in car crashes, 31 percent are from drinking. Maybe 18 percent had pot, but they also might have been drinking at the same time. So you can't even put that on pot.

Can I just add one little weird theory? It's Jacob Stallen (ph), who's a brilliant writer. Marijuana impairs driving less dramatically than booze. If it is substituted for booze, you might actually see less traffic fatalities if more people smoked marijuana than drink. In fact, total traffic fatalities, as marijuana consumption increases. It's gone 20 percent fewer, from 2012 inks back perhaps to the fact that maybe more people are smoking.

GUILFOYLE: But when you think about driving, though, think about the other crimes that are committed, or people using it as a gateway drug into other more serious or harder drugs. It's the first step.


GUILFOYLE: In the study, they...

GUTFELD: You've been smoking, haven't you?

BOLLING: ... and I don't. But let me give you the fiscal side of things.

PAVLICH: Numbers. Yes, numbers.

BOLLING: Tax revenue has gone up in Colorado. It probably would go up in any state that legalized it. And if you don't go so far as legalizing it, you probably are going to see a push to decriminalize it in states which means you'll save a ton of money with over-occupied prison systems, jail systems at the state level.

GUILFOYLE: That's the Democratic-libertarian argument.

BECKEL: Can I make one fast point. This guy says this it is addictive. Being an addict myself, addiction means when your drug of choice is removed, you have a physical reaction to it. You have to have it, or you have to go through the DTs or you have to go through whatever to get through it. I have yet to see in all my years of both rehabs and working with alcoholics and working with drug addicts, I have never seen anybody go -- getting the Jones off of marijuana.

BOLLING: But you have seen people step up from marijuana when they can't get high any more from marijuana.

GUILFOYLE: This is all insane. Not so innocent.

GUTFELD: I think alcohol is the biggest gateway drug there is. I never did anything bad until I started drinking.

PAVLICH: Well, we're all going to need a drink after the show, I'm sure.

GUTFELD: I'm buying.

PAVLICH: Coming up next, who are the most generous people in America? The wealthy or the poor? And where do they live, in red states or blue states? The answers may surprise you, coming up on "The Five."


BECKEL: That is an awful song. I apologize.

Americans are generous people. And according to a new analysis of IRS data, it's not just the wealthy who are charitable in this country. From 2006 to 2012, poor Americans actually increased donations to charity while their incomes were going down. The rich decreased their donations.

The study also shows which states as a whole gave the most. The top ones all happened to be red ones. Yes. The top five are Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and Utah is No. 1.

Eric, you were suggesting about Utah what?

BOLLING: I think the people you saw there, they're -- it's a heavily Mormon population. and they tithe. They give a lot of money of their incomes.

BECKEL: Twenty percent.

BOLLING: Surprising, though, the top 1 percent, the top even 1 to 5 percent have done very well in the last couple of years. I'm surprised to see them back off their giving.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you think that is?

BECKEL: Because they...

BOLLING: It's probably a raw number, in other words they're probably giving the same percentage, but it's not -- they're not giving -- I'm sorry, they're giving the same amount, but not the same percentage of their income, so as their income is going up...

GUILFOYLE: They're not investing it. They're not investing.

BECKEL: That was a good try. They're just not giving as much money. PAVLICH: This is the number that actually caught my eye, was the $200,000 number. So Americans who make more than $200,000 a year are typically people who own small businesses. So the way that they offer charity isn't through donating money; it's through creating jobs. And they're maybe not donating the extra money they had to charity, because now they're dealing with a lot of government regulations. Obamacare is a big one. So I don't think that's really fair to say they're not being generous, considering what they have to spend the money to...

BECKEL: You just hijacked my segment.

GUILFOYLE: Did you see how amazing that was? How she tied in Obamacare?

BECKEL: I mean, what -- right away.

PAVLICH: They don't have the money.

BECKEL: My entire -- what is it called, the Stockholm Syndrome? You're taking hostage my story -- block here. So be quiet. I don't want to talk about Obamacare. No, it was a good point, I think.

Now Greg, your giving has gone up?

GUTFELD: Yes. Here's my theory on the difference between income -- the richer you get, the more it might be reflective of an education. And the more educated you are, you tend to be less religious, and we see that trend happening. Charity is often a product of a community, which is often bound together by faith.

And that raises the question, what happens when religion declines? Who replaces, what replaces religion in terms of tying a community together and encouraging charity? Somebody's got to figure that out, because it doesn't look good.

BECKEL: You know, that's what Greg was saying -- or Eric was saying about Mormons. They do tithe; 15 to 20 percent of their income goes to the church and to charity. They do wonderful things.

GUTFELD: That Mitt Romney was a terrible person.

GUILFOYLE: Horrible. Thirty million dollars a year.

BECKEL: I was trying to support your point.

GUTFELD: No, no. I was saying that he was such a good man, but it didn't matter.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I was so upset about it. We miss you, Mitt.

BOLLING: And I just -- you notice the other four in the top five were all southern states?


BOLLING: The people in the south, right?

BECKEL: Always have been.

BOLLING: Fantastic.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Bob's...

BECKEL: It was the war of northern aggression, and don't suggest that it's over. They're simply waiting for resupplies?

PAVLICH: What are you talking about?

BECKEL: Just what you were talking about, which is take my whole segment and taking it into Obamacare. So now I'm going to take mine into something else.

PAVLICH: I'm just saying people who make that much money, $200,000 number, are typically people who are giving others jobs. And when they have extra money, think have extra charity money.

BECKEL: That's not the point of this segment. OK?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it is.

BECKEL: It's a good point, yes. But I mean...

GUILFOYLE: Gee, Bob. She made a good point.

Here's the deal, that's what happens.

BECKEL: That was a very tough thing to say right there. I mean, it was just -- that was a gut shot, that one. And I really don't appreciate it.

OK, now.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not sorry.

BECKEL: You know we're struggling here? I'm going to tell you why. Normally, my blocks last 90 seconds, and today it's four minutes.

GUILFOYLE: Now you know what to do. Please adjust the timing. You see?

BECKEL: I got to put up with you guys all week long, being outnumbered.

GUILFOYLE: Couldn't we find a better way?

BECKEL: What? OK, now let's go. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: Well, it's time now for "One More Thing." Are you excited? I am.

Did you guys check out Jimmy Kimmel? Because as always, he is very, very funny. And he asked Americans, went to people and said, "Hey, who is Joe Biden?" These answers are hilarious. Take a look.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to take a guess?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden? I don't know. A terrorist group, I guess.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Biden, is he a movie star?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden? I don't know who that is.


GUILFOYLE: All right, do they all vote? That's my concern.

Bolling, what do you got for me? You're agreeing over there.

BOLLING: OK. So 272 points down in the Dow today, a lot going on over there on the FOX business network, you should check it out if you get a chance to. Europe getting a little bit weak, China also saying their growth projections may back off a little bit.

Take a look at the chart very quickly. The S&P over the last year and a day on the S&P. Watch, some important numbers got taken out of the downside rate there. You know what? Basically it turns into the stock market probably has a little bit more to go south, maybe 500 to 1,000 points. So if you're an investor or looking to invest, pull up. Give it a little time to breathe.

GUILFOYLE: And if you don't have FBN, demand it.



GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.


GUTFELD: And is this a good one. We've got the International Kangaroo Street Fighting Championship, which took place in Perth. Check this out. They're not booing him; they're "roo"-ing him. Kangarooing him, that is. In a typical ritualized fight where you have high standing posture, with pawing direct at the chest and head, locking forearms and wrestling. By the way, they were fighting over a parking space. Harsh. Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: You sure that wasn't in L.A.?

GUTFELD: The -- let's come back to me. An interesting kangaroo fact. A kangaroo releases no flatulence, which is methane. Scientists are now interested in transferring the bacteria in kangaroos to cattle, because the gases effects of cattle are 23 times greater than carbon dioxide. Kangaroos, because they can't pass wind, may save our planet, ladies and gentlemen.

BECKEL: You're about to make me throw up.

GUILFOYLE: This is, like, the weirdest show. Bob.

BECKEL: And I'm following up your kangaroos with my "One More Thing." There's a lot of dog lovers around here. I'm not one of them. But I want to show you what happens when these cute little dogs you all like so much - - look what they do to this poor old guy. Like, he comes in there to pet those puppies. They bring him down, that one's got his ear. That's a gut shot right in the middle. That one's got the hand. And they're little puppies. Imagine when they get big. They're going to ruin the whole neighborhood. This poor guy, look at him. He's dying.

GUILFOYLE: OK. This has now become Animal Planet.

PAVLICH: Well, I have a public service announcement. Winter is coming, it is flu season. It is cold season. If you're going to cough or sneeze, either in your home, in public or on public transportation, you do not do this into your hands. You sneeze into your elbow and your biceps. You're helping everyone stay clean. You're helping everyone stay healthy.

GUTFELD: You just offended somebody.

PAVLICH: Just make sure you sneeze in your elbow and not in your hand. Thank you very much.

GUILFOYLE: Like a kindergarten class.

BOLLING: What do you do if your bicep is too big?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know, Bolling. Guns and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Before we go, we're celebrating an anniversary here today at FOX. Thank you to big boss Roger Ailes, who launched this network 18 years ago, the most powerful name in news.

GUTFELD: We're legal.

GUILFOYLE: We'll all so very proud to be a part of it. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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