This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 19, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: This is a FOX News alert. I'm Dana Perino.
All eyes on Ferguson, Missouri, as violence erupts yet again. Police fired tear gas after bottles of Molotov cocktails were tossed into the crowd last night. Two people were shot, 31 more arrested following the clashes.
The chaos has forced Captain Ron Johnson to take a new tune, slamming criminals for the latest unrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: We cannot have that. We do not want any citizen hurt. We don't want any officer hurt. When you are shooting in apartment complexes and children are laying in their bed in apartment complexes and bullets are flying through the air, the old saying on the streets as they say, a bullet has no name.
We do not want to lose another life in this community, and I am not going to let the criminals that have come out here from across the country or live in this community define this neighborhood and define what we're going to do to make it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: FOX News correspondent Mike Tobin and Steve Harrigan were front and center last night when things got out of hand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shots fired, shots fired. Yes, shots fired, and now, they are firing the tear gas. That smoke does have some tear gas in it, whew! That's in my eyes. A lot of tear gas. Whew! My face is on fire.
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The dignified protesters went home at dusk. This is just child's play right now.
HARRIGAN: I'm on TV right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't give a damn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all on TV. I don't care about this (EXPLETIVES DELETED)
HARRIGAN: I don't want to argue with you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told them this is just child's play? Who is the child playing with toys? That's them. Can you cite (ph) it? White.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Steve Harrigan joins us now. Steve, last night looked intense. How did the rest of the night go and how did today shape up?
HARRIGAN: After that tear gas, things quieted down quite a bit just about 1:00 in the morning. And right now, today, as you can look around, it's a vastly different scene. We've got traffic moving through. Probably about 60 or 70 protesters in total really getting the shade there from the McDonald's building. It's about 90 degrees out here.
Things usually ebb and flow throughout the early afternoon, but then it gets little hectic at night. A lot of different groups have said, for today, they do not want their people out on the street protesting after dusk. So, there is a chance we could see a quiet night tonight, but we haven't seen that so far.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hey, Steve. It's Eric Bolling. So, there's been a lot of people reporting that there are 70 arrests, I believe. One of four are from a different place, Chicago, Detroit, Texas, some parts of Brooklyn as well. Have you noticed people coming from other places to protest, and/or are they also there to do looting and rioting at night?
HARRIGAN: Seventy-eight arrests last night. Of those arrests, only about three or four from this town of Ferguson. A lot from Missouri, but as you correctly point out some from as far away as California and New York.
There's definitely a small sector trying to take advantage of this protest. What the police captain himself said, trying to use it as cover to attack police. On the other hand, though, there are a lot of protesters who are trying deliberately to keep things peaceful, trying to keep their people back on the curb, trying to prevent an outbreak of violence.
So, a lot of different groups inside the protesters, their numbers yesterday as high as a thousand over all. But in that thousand, there's people with handguns, people who want to throw Molotov cocktails and people who legitimately want to protest what they think is a racist, divided city, and they're trying to do that in a peaceful fashion.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Steve, this is Gutfeld.
It seems to me when I'm watching this stuff, the worse it gets, the worse it gets. Meaning as the media attention becomes a magnifying glass, it seems to take something, sizzle it and make it burn even more.
Do you feel that the media is actually hurting this rather than helping?
HARRIGAN: You know, I think the media can give a distorted picture a little bit of things. When I actually go home and watch some of the footage on TV, I see -- I hardly each recognize it because the small screen can really capture a sense of violence that I don't really see. It looks like Rome is burning, you know, when you watch it on TV, and basically we're talking about an area of two square blocks where there's been street protests but the police didn't actually fire a shot last night.
On the other hand, when you talk to people outside of these protests, it's really -- you really do get the sense that people are angry here. That there's been racism here for decades and they are fed up.
So, on the one hand, TV is giving a misleading picture that the whole city is on fire and it's not. On the other hand, there is a real problem here and we're bringing attention to it.
ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Steve, if you can break down the ratio of how you see the people there, the peaceful protesters versus the rioters because we've heard all sorts of information, right? We've heard another host on another cable channel say that it's mostly media in the streets. We've heard the president yesterday say that there's a very small percentage of rioters and protesters, it's mostly peaceful.
If you can break us down, break it down, give us a sense of what it's like on the street and who makes up the majority of what you are seeing.
HARRIGAN: It really depends on what time you go out. As of now, there's probably about 70 or 80 people in all. Around 6:00 or 7:00, when it cools off a little bit, we could see up to a thousand. Those are peaceful marchers, sometimes people pushing kids in strollers.
It gets bad around midnight and sometimes there's only 100 people left then, so we're talking about a very small amount of people. And among that 100, there might be, you know, four or five with masks on who are ready to throw a Molotov cocktail or who have a gun.
So, a small percentage I'd say could be violent, but you know it's a tense stand-off when police are four rows deep with batons and helmets on and there's a crowd of a thousand. That's all it takes is two or three bad people to really set off a spark that could turn things very ugly here very quickly.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Hey, Steve, it's Bob Beckel. Can you confirm something for me? I don't want to put you on the spot here. You've been very busy, doing a great job.
But is it the case that Ferguson police do not have to live in Ferguson, to be cops in Ferguson?
HARRIGAN: They definitely do not have to live in Ferguson. I think the officer in question here did not live in Ferguson.
BECKEL: That's what I thought.
HARRIGAN: And when you look at the two lines, it's basically, you know, white police, black protesters. So, even though it's police and protesters, there's also a white-black division that's pretty clear.
PERINO: Steve, it's Dana. I wonder if you could tell us if the National Guard and police department today, do they have a new strategy going into tonight?
HARRIGAN: I think that's one of the things that's been a problem that you are getting at. We've seen a new strategy every day and sometimes within the same day, several strategies. The one strategy that seemed to work was making people march. That calmed things down, thinned out the crowd, kept people moving and kept things peaceful, when they went away from that, that's when trouble really started.
The National Guard has been pretty much held off in reserve at the (AUDIO GAP). We've seen SWAT teams, local police -- a shift in strategy and a shift in command.
A even if you are not a expert, when you look at the police lines and seen some of the charges they have made, seen some of the things they've done, seen the show of force, you get the feeling of uh-oh, not a whole lot of experience, not a whole lot of calm confidence on the side of police, especially the local forces right now.
PERINO: All right. Eric?
BOLLING: Steve, Bolling again.
So, I woke up this morning, I was watching all the stuff from overnight. Around 10:00 or 11:00, it felt likes things are starting -- even the story felt like, it was -- all right, we've seen this now.
And then, 1:00 Central Time, your time, there was another police- involved shooting. A man was shot and killed. He was wielding a knife. Police felt threatened. They shot him and killed him. They say he was yelling some crazy things and whatnot.
But I wanted to know did that spark, did that energize anything that you saw going on there? Does that have any effect going on in the scene? By the way, that's only about four miles from where you're standing.
HARRIGAN: That's right. Around the scene itself, it sparked some attention, small crowd gathered, making some of the same chants that we've seen, "Hands up, don't shoot, they shot another one of us."
But, right here, it's had no effect so far tonight. When the sun goes down and cools off, more of a crowd. It might have some effect. But we haven't seen it yet.
BECKEL: Yes, Steve, the -- checking with the Missouri Department of Public Safety, Ferguson police statistics were rejected for gross in errors. Also, as I understand it, 67 percent of people in the town are black, 97 percent of the cars that are stopped are black. Two times as many blacks get frisked as whites and three times more chance to get your cars frisked than white.
Is that -- have you picked that sort of stuff up from blacks? Even prior to this, do they feel that there is a racial divide in that city?
HARRIGAN: There's no question about it. We were standing out in front of Target yesterday just talking to African-Americans who are not part of the protest, who were coming out.
And this woman about 40 told me, "I avoid Ferguson. I drive around it. Those people, the whites, don't want us in their stores and we get the sense that it's a divided place that we don't want any part of. They don't like us, we don't like them."
So, even if they're not protesting here, you get the sense that this is the place that's stuck in 1970. And there's a lot of people who have some real frustration that's been building over the years.
GUTFELD: Steve, those are interesting emotions. What about facts? Have you asked any of the police officers or anybody within the police department, why they aren't living in Ferguson?
Is it because perhaps maybe they haven't been able to find qualified applicants for the police force, or are they actively avoiding hiring people in Ferguson? Have they said, "No, we don't want to hire them"? Or is it because of certain factors that prevent them from hiring them? Or perhaps, education, criminal records or a lack of desire to become a police officer?
HARRIGAN: I can't answer the specifics of that question with facts, but a couple of things have come out since this crisis began, and that is that the police here in Ferguson are going to push for more minority candidates for their police academy. They are also going to make sure that they have cameras on their vests, on their dash, so we see spurred on by this incident some reforms headed for the police department here in Ferguson soon.
BECKEL: Steve, you want some facts. There are other facts here. The fact is the budget of Ferguson police department or the town have zero dollars for minority recruitment. Now, I can assume that a lot of --
BECKEL: Zero, zero.
PERINO: Hey, let's not make Steve get in the middle of this. We got two more blocks.
TANTAROS: He's got enough conflict.
PERINO: Steve, you're going to get your last question from Andrea.
TANTAROS: Yes, Steve. Sorry, you are in the middle of enough conflict in Ferguson.
HARRIGAN: Thanks, Dana.
TANTAROS: We don't mean to put you into our conflict here on THE FIVE.
TANTAROS: Eric Holder is heading to the area tomorrow. I know the administration has been pressuring the police department in different ways, so over the weekend we heard a report that they pressured them, the feds not to release that surveillance tape. However, they were lecturing them on transparency.
Any idea of what's happening behind the scenes? If the police plan on releasing more information, if they plan on indicting? What are you hearing from the department about how they're going to take next steps?
HARRIGAN: I think the release of that video was a real surprise, both at the county and state level and at the national level as well and it shows the real gap in the command structure between the very top and the local force.
And I imagine the local police feel real slighted by how they have been portrayed in the media so far.
But the story is likely to take on more national attention in the days ahead with this Thursday day of national rage and then a funeral for Michael Brown on Monday, could get a lot of real national attention as this story expands beyond Ferguson.
PERINO: All right. Steve, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.
HARRIGAN: Thank you.
PERINO: When we come back: Greg on the media's role in stoking Ferguson's flames. Will they care about the city after they jump to the next story? That's next on THE FIVE.
GUTFELD: The media, like humanity, can only handle two sides to a story, and they almost always flock to one side and it's David, never Goliath, even if Goliath might be right. It's a side dictated by decades of pop culture deeming what's cool and what isn't.
Who needs balance when Buffalo Springfield tells you there's something happening here? We're all suckers for that.
But there aren't two sides to Ferguson. There are lots, or at least four, aside from protesters and the law. You've got insiders and outsiders, those who stop by for the racket and those left to clean up after the opportunists are gone. The outsiders arrive like moth to a flame, and the flame is any camera. And reporters, a different moth, find their flame in all the action.
Al Sharpton, a moth, has never met a spotlight he didn't like. Freddy's Fashion Mart, Tawana Brawley, Crown Heights -- the pain and suffering of others is a small price to pay for his stardom. The only crime is when he's ignored, which is why you most always keep in mind those who were left behind, because once these outsiders leave, the only people left are those who can't.
Shop owners don't happily return to their "Huffington Post" podcast. They're repairing windows in displays. The shop keeper stays well until he packs up for good, for safer pastures. And what's left behind is another scorched hut (ph), another city undone by the divas of division.
Andrea, what would happen if all the cameras packed up? Like what would the agitators do?
TANTAROS: They probably wait for another situation like this, which is what they do. They're not spending their time in Chicago addressing black on black crime for the most part.
But what's been shocking to me was the handling of this by certain cable news channel. I think some of it has been very fair. There's one in particular --
GUTFELD: Rhymes with PNN?
TANTAROS: Well, yes. It does remind with PNN and the C, in the end now stands for the "cops not needed" network.
TANTAROS: Yesterday, when the autopsy came out, Dr. Michael Baden couldn't have been more clear. He said that there's no specific series of event that this autopsy can confirm. There's no specific fact pattern.
Yet, on the air, one of the anchors said the results of this autopsy now confirm what protesters believe to be true -- reporting that as fact. That is completely untrue.
It's irresponsible. Leading the guest is very irresponsible.
And these ear buds that I emailed last night, the reporter for "The Huffington Post", I think we have the full screen really wanted these ear plugs to be rubber bullets, he put out a tweet asking if anybody knew -- can anyone confirm, these are rubber bullets? No, they were what I used to go to sleep at night when the cabs are honking. It's just mine are pink.
TANTAROS: So, there really is some irresponsible journalism happening. And when they do leave, Greg, you're going to have a lot of those business owners, unfortunately minority business owners, a lot of them, left to pick up the pieces.
GUTFELD: Eric, we just heard Harrigan talked about the upcoming day of rage.
GUTFELD: Is that something reporters should be talking about?
BOLLING: Yes -
GUTFELD: Coming up.
BOLLING: He's reporting what's going on down there. That's what we want -- look, that's what cable news is right. You got 24/7. You want to know exactly what's going on. This happens to be a story.
It's incredible, like -- I analyzed the ratings on these things. You can go and find out by quarter hours, or 15-minute chunks of time. Shows we'll be handling the show -- this situation in Missouri will be rating here. They will go off and do another topic, very compelling topic, provocative, the ratings will dip and they'll go back to it later and the ratings will go back up.
There's an appetite by the consuming public who want their news. They want to see this. They want to see that video. They want to see the looters shooting the window out and then running into this one, right there. That one, that's what they want to see because, frankly, they are sitting from home from wherever they are and go, wow, can you imagine what's going on there?
The problem is that poor storm owner is going, can you imagine what's going on here?
GUTFELD: Yes, looters are making money for somebody.
BOLLING: And how is that helping the cause, right?
BOLLING: I mean, the Michael Brown cause or the incarceration or arrest rate amongst African-Americans in a community. That doesn't help.
GUTFELD: Dana, it's the chicken and egg question, does the chaos incite more chaos, or does the chaos incite more media to come and watch it?
PERINO: I think that what you're saying is that if the cameras were to leave right now, if everybody made -- if the media made a pact, and they said because they say -- everybody says they really want this get this situation to really get calmed down, they made a pact and they all walked away, and nobody was going to film it tonight, would there be riots? Maybe, maybe not.
I think the interesting thing, though, is that there's different ways of filming things now. Everybody has their own phone. So, the story is going to be covered.
And, plus, what Steve Harrigan was saying is, maybe this is a story that needed to be exposed. If people in Ferguson feel that strongly about a racial divide, maybe this is something that had to be talked about.
GUTFELD: Yes, true.
Bob, there's another night of riots, which means another night of award-winning photography, which would guarantee another night of rioting. It's like a snowboard of -- snowboard -- a snowball of suffering.
BECKEL: Yes, and you know, the thing -- the sad part about this these punks that come from out of town, they are in there to do one or two things, either to incite riot or to steal. And I would bet you when all of said and done, most of people who did the violence in this thing, in a very contained area as you pointed out, were done by out-of-towners, all of whom should be lock up quick.
And the other -- but the other thing is, it is seems to me that for CNN, you know, I understand exactly what you are saying about the Baden thing. I mean, he did not draw a conclusion.
Now, you have to look at it two ways. When you say conclusions, you can't draw conclusions. There aren't enough facts here. But if you are somebody who lives in Ferguson where you believe that the police are racists and you see that these gunshot wounds are coming down your arm like this, they are going to assume, they are going to assume without full evidence that this kid had his hands up in the air.
Now, I don't know what happened. I know I tackled a lot of -- if this kid was tackling this cop, I've tackled a lot of people in my life, I've never done it with my hands up like this.
Does that mean that the guy was not charging him? Probably not. But does it mean the people in Ferguson believe it? Absolutely.
GUTFELD: No, you mean charging him?
BECKEL: Charging him.
GUTFELD: Yes, yes.
GUTFELD: Not charging him.
BECKEL: Charging (ph) him.
GUTFELD: I don't know. No, it's true. It's very confusing to all of us.
What about the people that are still -- like in a couple of months, it will be Ferguson but worse because everybody had left and there would be shopkeepers who were in debt because they had to repair all of these displays and windows.
TANTAROS: That's right. And a lot of stories about how the economy is driving this even more. How does this help the economy? How does this help the police force?
I mean, if this is a region of the country that has deep-seated racial divisions, I don't know how you begin to put the pieces back together after what just happened, especially after the cameras leave? I mean, then really who's going to focus on this?
BOLLING: I --
PERINO: It's a slow burn. It's a slow burn to -- it takes -- it will take many years. But, you know, yes, shops will leave and people will have to travel farther in order to get services or people have to live farther out in order to work in Ferguson.
BOLLING: And there's one possible silver lining to this whole thing and the coverage in seeing what's going on, that the African-American community in there can vote, they can vote in the people they want, they can vote in the town council people. They can -- and have those town council people, I don't know, put -- hire cops that are more diverse and maybe that will solve some of the problem in the area.
BECKEL: Yes. Well, you know, I would bet you most of the people going into the stores looting don't care one whit about this kid.
PERINO: I agree.
BECKEL: They would not go down there and protest the fact that he was killed. They went down there to take advantage of the situation, knowing full well they could get into a liquor store. We've seen it happen before in riot after riot after riot.
And this is the point I keep making. The majority of these people, the vast majority of them, want to see this kid -- his trial be fair and the rest of it. They don't go into liquor stores and rob. And I bet most of them couldn't even pronounce his name. >
GUTFELD: All right. We got to go.
Coming up: President Obama faces another racially charged story in Ferguson but some African-Americans are not buying his explanation for the causes of violence. Details, next.
TANTAROS: Well, President Obama has never shied away from diving into racial issues before and yesterday was no exception. The president took a break from his Martha's Vineyard vacation to address the unrest in Ferguson and blamed black violence on our, quote, "tragic histories."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Part of the ongoing challenge of perfecting our union has involved dealing with communities that feel left behind, who as a consequence of tragic histories often find themselves isolated, and you have young men of color in many communities who are more likely to end up in jail or in the criminal justice system than they are in a good job or in college.
(END VIDOE CLIP)
TANTAROS: But "The Wall Street Journal's" Jason Riley took issue with that explanation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON RILEY, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": He said black criminals should be prosecuted, which is helpful. But then he attributed that black criminality. He suggested it stems from poverty or a racist criminal justice system. Which is nonsense. The black crime rate in 1960 was lower than it is today. Was there less racism or less poverty in 1960? This is about black behavior. It needs to be addressed head on. It's about attitudes towards the criminal justice system in these neighborhoods, where young black men have no sense of what it means to be a male or what it means to be black. And he needs to talk about that head-on, not dismiss it as a product of poverty or history, which is a dodge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TANTAROS: Right, Greg. Also, the president taking heat for not saying looting was wrong. He basically stated the intended goal of the rioting and the looting, right, to promote aggression. Charles Krauthammer made that comment -- comment last night.
What did you think about the president's remarks yesterday?
GUTFELD: I can't get too, like, out of shape about it. I think his goal is to remain calm. I mean, he's the most famous black American in the world, and sometimes you'd like to think that he would take some risks and say some uncomfortable things. But maybe he will, and maybe he realizes that's not who he is.
But if you look at what is wrong, and you see what's happening to Ferguson, which is almost like Detroit condensed into a made-for-TV movie. It's like a time lapse history with a generation of a city, I think it's not simply black on black. It's poor on poor. You've got a decline in the family structure: bad schools, high taxes, corruption and bureaucracy, joblessness.
The result is you have people leaving, leaving to the suburbs, who are both black and white, leaving the poor to prey upon the poor. Who runs these places into the ground? It's not evil white cops. It's liberalism. It's liberalism that has destroyed every single one of these cities.
TANTAROS: Dana, one thing that I thought that was pretty radical yesterday, even though he had a very muted tone, some of the messaging was anything but.
When he talked about suspensions of black youth in schools, this is a policy the president has talked about before. And it seems like he's going to be putting pressure on schools not to suspend as many black kids. Which I just took issue with. He was almost deducing that this happened because of black kids getting suspended more than white kids.
So the answer to that is, is this administration now going to pressure schools to stop suspending blacks and suspend more whites? I mean, I'm just wondering where he was going with that yesterday.
PERINO: I actually think it was part of a bigger picture, because he mentioned his program, My Brother's Keeper, which was well-received by everybody, to say yes, this is something that we need to do. And then he is in the best position to be able to do it.
I think tomorrow when he sends Attorney General Eric Holder to Ferguson, it does raise expectations and it also raises questions, because this is going to happen again somewhere in America, and at that point has the precedent been set? Hopefully, they can calm things down.
I think maybe the most helpful thing that Obama and Holder could say is to the people who have come -- the outsiders that have come in that have stoked further violence, they should have a very tough message for them and tell them to get the heck out of there.
TANTAROS: Um-hmm. Eric, do you think that the police officer has a chance for a fair shake with Holder going to the town? A lot of people wondering that. And out of the gate he said civil rights investigation without knowing the facts. He went right to civil rights. He met with the victim's family before he knew any of the facts. Do you think he'll have a fair shake?
BOLLING: You know, on the other side, I've been hearing all day about the county prosecutor. His father was a cop who was killed by an African- American, so the other side is saying they won't -- he will have more than his due -- fair shake or however we put it. Hopefully, justice is fair, and it will be taken care of.
Let me throw one thing at you, though. President Obama has now become probably the most influential civil rights activist in the country, far exceeding Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. So if he wants that job, and he seems to want it with the kind of rhetoric he's saying. Comes back to Martha's Vineyard; makes this big announcement. How about he go himself? How about he -- hold on. Let me just finish this one thought.
Let him go himself. Let him stand there for five minutes, say, "All right, everyone. We're going to take care of this issue. We understand there's a racial situation going on. Let's calm down, fix this. Get out of there," and I promise you I won't be that right-winger that says, "Why does he only show up to the things that are important to him?" Because that would probably calm things down overnight.
BECKEL: I think calm is a good idea here for me. Let me just say it. It contributed to the destruction of American cities, being liberal.
We did not put on what Barack Obama said yesterday about looters. And he was very strong on it. No, we didn't do that. We put that on. And so I'll get in trouble here. I'm not attacking my own show. I'm just saying the president had other things to say.
He's spoken three times. Three times he's denounced looters. Three times he's called them criminals. Three times he said to get out of town. Now, I don't know what more he has to do.
And you know, it just -- this guy, Ridley [SIC], whatever his name is from The Wall Street Journal, the idea that poverty does not contribute to crime, you just don't get it. Is it more poverty in the '60s? Yes, but there were families in the '60s. That's the difference.
PERINO: That's actually a good point.
BOLLING: That's a good point, though.
PERINO: That's what he said. If you know anything about Jason Riley, that is his point. And he knows something -- he knows a lot more about growing up in -- a black man in an inner city than we do, because he did. So I think he's worth listening to.
BECKEL: But I wish he had said that. That's one...
PERINO: He does. I'll look in on -- maybe -- follow Jason Riley. He has really interesting good things to say about this topic.
TANTAROS: Yes, he does.
PERINO: Every day. Not just...
BOLLING: And by the way, Bob, I think he did say poverty does contribute to crime. He said black -- race doesn't contribute to crime. Poverty does.
BECKEL: He said...
TANTAROS: All right. Bob, you got your Bob-o-logue. Just like to drag-o-logue without your Bob-o-logue.
Up next, there was another fatal shooting involving a police officer just miles from Ferguson. Mike Tobin will join us with the details on that next.
BOLLING: All right. We're going to head back out to Missouri, where earlier this afternoon, police shot and killed, I believe what is said to be a 22-year-old man who was wielding a knife, trying to rob a convenience store.
Mike, you have the very latest? Tell us what the response is from your -- where you stand.
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. Because I'm out here on West Floriston (ph) Avenue, and you get the reaction from the people; and the reaction from the people really involves a lot of misinformation. It gets out on social media. It gets out through -- through word of mouth. And the conclusion that was arrived at right away well was, "Well, the police got another one." It also gets twisted along the lines of this guy was paying for his food, and the police ultimately shot him.
And it also combined the narrative. The police have a lot of nonlethal options that they could have used instead of deadly force. And it sounds like, in reality, this guy had some mental problems, and sadly, he's dead now.
BECKEL: Mike, you know, the reactions of those people you're talking about, I mean, it is -- the conclusions that they jump to right away -- the social media doesn't help on that -- but there -- doesn't there seem to be a predetermined view on their part to accept that that would be the case? I mean, I'm trying to -- it's difficult to put myself in their situation. But if I heard that a cop killed a guy in St. Louis, and I was living there; and I was upset already about what's happening, my conclusion would be, "There, that they got another one."
TOBIN: Well, and that's immediately the conclusion they arrived at. What I didn't see out here, Bob, though is a big flash of anger. You get a lot of talk. The crowd is pretty small right now. And as the -- as the evening comes around, you'll see the crowd grow, and then once the sun goes down, you'll see the crowd get aggressive; you see the crowd get cranky; you see the crowd get angry. But we haven't seen the immediate flash of anger.
And you do have a big differentiation in this case, because with Mike Brown the narrative was that he was unarmed. In this case, you know now he had a knife, and at least according to the information we got from police, he was lunging at the officers.
TANTAROS: Mike, I know we don't have a lot of details on this specific incident that just took place, and I'm not trying to jump to conclusions on either story, but it does seem a little odd that we have two men who are now dead, shot dead in the streets of Missouri, because I guess the police suspected them of a crime, or something transpired.
And I did a little research into the law. This is pretty troubling here. Cops are allowed in Missouri to use deadly force if they suspect that the person in front of them is even a suspect in a crime or if it's going to affect the arrest. That's a pretty liberal reading of the law, that these cops are just killing people when this person could just be a suspect. I mean, one had a knife. One was unarmed but this law seems pretty unbelievable that cops are allowed to do this.
TOBIN: Well, I think the interpretation of law is one thing, but I think there's an exception with your notion that this is unusual. This kind of thing happens across the nation all the time. The only reason we're paying attention to this particular case in St. Louis that happened today is because it happened with such close proximity and so close in time to what happened to Mike Brown.
PERINO: Hi, Mike. It's Dana. I'm just curious if anybody that you've talk to, do they have expectations for tomorrow's meeting, when Attorney General Eric Holder comes to Ferguson, or is that not really something they're concerned with?
TOBIN: They don't really talk about it that much, and I think I've watched Captain Johnson go around and tell the demonstrators, "Look, you had an impact. You have 40 FBI agents combing this neighborhood right now, trying to bring you the justice that you say you're after." But they just don't accept it.
The people out here hear what they want. They want to see an arrest. and they want a conviction right away. They don't want to go through the long process, and they don't really want to take the time to understand the process, particularly as it relates to a grand jury.
GUTFELD: Mike, this is Greg. I'm struggling to come up with a question, but I can't come up with one. All I can say is, from my statistics, black offenders outnumber whites in homicides by almost 25 percent in 2012, despite having a population of a fifth the size, and I'm wondering what that would be like if we covered every one of those? Just a question.
TOBIN: You got me there.
GUTFELD: It wasn't really meant for you.
BECKEL: I've got a question for you about tonight. I assume that we -- these outsiders who come in there that do this -- the lion's share of this tragedy will use St. Louis. I mean, St. Louis is going to become a rallying point tonight, don't you think?
TOBIN: Well, St. Louis or Ferguson here. The one stat I can give you is there were 78 arrests last night, most of them for defying the order to disperse. Of those 78 arrests, four people were from Ferguson. Thirteen were from out of state. So that answers your question about outside agitators.
BECKEL: What I'm saying, they are the things who are going to use this St. Louis thing as part of their argument -- part of their anger, supposedly, tonight. Man, you must have a hard time hearing out there. I have a hard time -- is that all day long you have to put up with those horns?
TOBIN: It's constant. There's always somebody heckling. There's always a horn going on.
BOLLING: All right. Hey, Mike, we're going to let you go. But just one observation: Last night, I think you were doing about the same live shot, and I think you were saying about the same thing. It seems kind of calm, and last night happened to be the most violent and the most arrests of all of them so far.
Mike, we're going to leave you right there. Thank you very much.
Directly ahead, football is back, and so is the Redskin name controversy. More on that when we return.
BECKEL: Take a look at that picture. You're never going to see that few cars on Sixth Avenue.
Football is back, and so is the Redskins controversy. It continues to create headaches for the team's ownership, and two new voices might just have them reaching for Advil now.
Hugely influential commentator Phil Sims some people's minds, of CBS, and Tony Dungy of NBC have both said they both will refrain from calling the team "Redskins," instead referring to them simply as "Washington."
Eric, what do you think?
BOLLING: Simms, great quarterback, Dungy great coach, two -- two guys wussing out on this. I think that it's the Washington Redskins until either the team changes their name or the league instructs differently. Until then you go with "Washington Redskins."
The good news is Mike Ditka and Al Michaels will continue to use the Washington Redskins until the name is officially changed. I'm with them.
BECKEL: Dana, this seems to be a growing problem for the Redskins from a communications standpoint. Do you agree with that?
PERINO: Yes. I was just -- I was wondering earlier today. How do they get this behind them? Like, what actually could happen that they can move forward, move past it?
I think it's reaching a point where Snider is either going to have to make a decision, and I think you'll see a change, maybe not this year, but within the next three years they will probably change it.
The other thing they could do is just bleep every time somebody says Redskins, and then it would be so annoying that they'll make sure they have to change it.
BECKEL: Do you think they'll give up the name?
TANTAROS: He might if it continues to get -- if they continue to get political pressure. But I think this is a smart way of handling it. Look, if the announcers don't want to use the word, don't use the word. That's a perfect way of dealing with it, but I don't think you should be forced to change the name.
TANTAROS: That is -- and that's a banned phrase.
BECKEL: Do you think that they're wussing out? Or they're...
GUTFELD: I think calling them "Washington" is way more offensive.
PERINO: I knew you were going to say that. I knew it!
GUTFELD: The proportion of outrage devoted to this is absolutely nuts. Redskins, silly bad name, but the suicide rate of young Native Americans is three times that of the general population, and that's not due to the name of a football team. So this -- it's a collection of pathologies that have nothing to do with football, and it makes this whole issue seem idiotic and silly.
BECKEL: OK. I -- let me, being a Washingtonian defending this for many, many, many years, I've got to say I just don't see it going away, and I agree. I don't know how you put it behind you. I hate to say it, but I just think it's time or maybe time shortly for the -- the Washington team to change its name.
BOLLING: But what about weighing in on whether Phil Simms and Tony Dungy should not use it?
BECKEL: I think they should not use it. Because that's what they believe.
BOLLING: It's the team name.
BECKEL: I know, but that's what they believe. I mean, they feel pretty strongly about it. And...
PERINO: What if people don't like, like -- let's just say they don't like Speaker Boehner. And they say, "We, I'm just going to call him the speaker. I'll never actually say his name"?
GUTFELD: I don't like the Sims, so I'm not going to call him...
TANTAROS: I think that's a great way of dealing with it.
BECKEL: I don't know how else...
TANTAROS: I'd rather say "minority leader" than Pelosi.
PERINO: There you go.
BECKEL: You would? OK. I'd rather say -- I'd rather say "speaker."
OK. "One More Thing" up next.
PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing," and Andrea kicks us off.
TANTAROS: OK. This was supposed to be in Eric's block. But last night Johnny Football decided to, oh, I don't know, extend a very specific finger out to the Washington Redskins bench. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cleaning house before the season started.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incomplete as Manziel was on the run looking for Jonathan...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TANTAROS: How is that for arrogance? Look at that. Very, very clear.
He apologized, though. Let's take a listen. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY MANZIEL, CLEVELAND BROWNS QUARTERBACK: I had words exchanged with me throughout the entirety of the game, every game, week after week, and should have been smarter. It was a "Monday Night Football" game. I mean, the cameras were probably solidly on me, so I just need to be smarter about that. I felt like I did a good job of holding my composure throughout the night, and you have a lapse of judgment and slip up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TANTAROS: Hey, Johnny, humility. You can be cocky when you start winning, but don't extend that finger when there are families watching either.
BOLLING: Don't say, "We're No. 1."
BOLLING: This one.
PERINO: He went to media training. You can tell. He's much better than before the summer. So I don't know who that was. Ari, was that you? I don't know.
Let's see. I'm going to show you the best picture I've taken this summer. You know I take a lot of pictures of Jasper. This is my friend, Macy English, jumping off the dock and Jasper going after her.
GUTFELD: Of course, she was eaten by the dog.
PERINO: Macy English is 10. She was not eaten by the dog. But he went in after her.
She's -- they're in South Carolina. I thought it was the best picture of the summer. And I learned something about her, though. She went back to school last week, and you know how it is over the summer. Sometimes your classmates grow taller and you don't. Turns out she's now the shortest person in her class. She doesn't like that, but Macy, I'm here to tell you, I was the shortest person in my class, too.
BECKEL: You put a picture of your dog attacking little girls?
PERINO: She just jumped after her.
Anyway, I just -- Macy, look, it's OK to be the shortest person in your class and, you know, sometimes short people wear glasses too, right, Greg?
GUTFELD: That's absolutely right.
PERINO: Don't you want to give her a word of encouragement.
GUTFELD: Things get better. They really do. Hang in there. Hang in there.
PERINO: You met her.
GUTFELD: Yes, she was a very nice kid, very nice kid, and she's going to grow.
PERINO: She'll grow. Unlike you.
GUTFELD: Unlike me. I stopped growing.
TANTAROS: There's always high heels. That's your motto, right, Greg?
GUTFELD: Exactly. Exactly.
PERINO: OK, Greg, you get to go next.
GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's Secrets to Happiness, the abridged version.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Now in Esperanto. So hey, Matthew McConaughey was at Fenway Park, and he was wearing a fanny pack, and he was forced to defend himself, saying, "I'm not afraid of the fanny pack." Instead of stuffing your pockets, you just put it off on the side. It's kind of nerdy, whatever."
OK. The secret to happiness here is it's good to see a person of influence credit an uncool behavior. What's the next step? It's to focus on destructive behaviors and protective behaviors and not be afraid to defend the dorky.
PERINO: OK. I'm going to have to rewind that.
GUTFELD: That made no sense, did it?
PERINO: It did not, but...
TANTAROS: Wait. Fanny packs equal happiness, was that the message?
GUTFELD: Yes. Fanny packs equal happiness.
PERINO: Oh, there you go.
TANTAROS: No wonder I'm so miserable.
PERINO: Short of Greg Gutfeld, which is hard to do. Fanny packs equal happiness.
GUTFELD: Thank you for that, crazy person.
PERINO: Eric, you're next.
BOLLING: No, if you have a good one, you can take mine.
BECKEL: I don't have enough time. OK. The -- I want to -- this is a very big and important day for all of us who have spoken out against the leadership of the Muslim religion for not denouncing terrorism, particularly al Qaeda and ISIS.
And the Saudi Arabian grand mafafti (ph), Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh, is somebody who is the most influential person in Saudi Arabia. And he said, "extremism, radicalism and terrorism has nothing to do with Islam and their proponents are enemies, No. 1 of Islam."
I'm not going to tease them. It's that important. Watch something else. "Special Report" is coming up.
PERINO: "Special Report" is coming up. I'll be on the panel. Don't miss an episode of "The Five." We'll be back here tomorrow, and I'll give my time to Eric.
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