THE FIVE

US disengaging from increasingly chaotic world?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 24, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

PERINO: Is America becoming too complacent in the midst of worldwide terror threats? This week, the 9/11 Commission issued its first report in a decade and warned just that. The commission says that the complacency that led to 9/11 is happening again.

"The Wall Street Journal's" Daniel Henninger warned, "All the world's chaos is going to get worse. In the next two years, many more people are going to die and not necessarily in the places where they are dying now. Hope alone won't protect Europe or us."

And take a look at the cover of the new issue of "Time" magazine. It reads, "Cold War two, the West is losing Putin's dangerous game."

Is it time for the U.S. to step up and take charge?

Well, Secretary Kerry and President Obama think that we already are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: The facts could not be more clear. The United States of America has never been more engaged in helping to lead in more places than we are now.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We live in a complex world and at a challenging time. And none of these challenges lend themselves to quick or easy solutions, but all of them require American leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates thinks the U.S. appears to be disengaging from the world. Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think that there is a perception around the world of the U.S. disengaging. I know that the administration makes the case of its diplomatic involvement and how busy it is, how involved it is around the world. But look, the reality is, withdrawing from, or disengaging from two wars, both of which end without a clear-cut victory, is a tricky business to avoid giving the impression you're disengaging from the rest of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK. Our attempt here is not to get too specific on tactics and try to keep at the bigger picture.

Let me just start with you, Greg. Do you think America is having a national identity crisis?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I don't know, maybe. Next?

No, America I think is falling victim to a number of things. It's entitlement plus distractions, which leads to, I think, a steep decline in making us vulnerable to outside threat. As the government bloats and buys off a population, who are distracted by incredible technologies, and endless faucets of pop culture, we no longer are paying attention to the threats around us.

So, as the patient is medicated, by these painkillers, which make it happy, and indulge our senses, we lose sight of the fact that the world is pretty threatening. There are people who do not respond to reason. We think that we can somehow convince our enemies to listen to us, when actually the only way to get into their thick skulls anything is with a bullet. I mean, extremists do not listen to us.

PERINO: Another type of bullet is an economic one. Eric, I wondered what you thought about America's economic position in the world. Is that having an effect on other decisions that we're making or not making?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So, the three conflicts that we're talking about. You look at Ukraine and Russia, we talked about it quite a bit. Yet we need to step up sanctions against Russia. The way to do that would be with the oil industry and tell them, you know, in no uncertain terms we're going to do what we have to do to drill more here. We're not going to rely on any Middle Eastern oil, any Russian oil. And if we need to help out some European trading partners, oil trading partners, maybe we'll do that, too, in the form of sending them crude oil, sending them gasoline products, heating oil and all those types of things. Not necessarily natural gas.

Israel, send them support -- military support in the form of intel and technology. We did that with the Iron Dome, continue to help them out with the Iron Dome, things like that. And with the Middle East, I think that's just one where we just need to wait and see what happens. And we probably disagree on how to handle the Middle East, but my take on it is, the way to really hurt the Middle East the most is, again, frack, drill and Keystone Pipeline, our way out of the Middle East completely.

PERINO: Economic.

Bob, you are wanting to comment on the "Time" magazine cover, which is asking about the Cold War. Here's how I wanted to frame the question to you, and you can, of course, answer it however you want, of course. Before it was called the Cold War, in the middle of those first several years, people didn't know exactly what they were in, but they knew that it was -- that they were having a fight without weapons against the Soviet Union.

Are we in some sort of a new phase now that will be named later, that we can't exactly pin down at the moment?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, let me start by saying, Mr. Gates who --

PERINO: Secretary Gates.

BECKEL: Secretary Gates, who criticized the administration, went around this table, particularly Greg has made the point about cutting back on the military, it was the Gates' program to cut back on the military. I want to make that point.

Secondly, the "Time" magazine cover is one of the most feckless, ill- informed pieces of journalism and crap I've ever seen. Look, the Cold War was borne out of the Second World War. It was the USSR versus the United States.

It was very clear-cut. The USSR was big, it was powerful, it had a number of countries that it controls. It does not now have that. All it has is oil and gas. It's basically a third world country. Its unemployment is unbelievable.

And in terms of the economics -- look, the world has changed. A lot of countries like India and Brazil have become very strong economically. So, we can't expect to control that. But the idea that somehow we're going into a second Cold War, I don't know who did that for "Time" magazine. They ought to be fired.

PERINO: Do you think, Andrea, that we are entering something, that we'll name and brand later on?

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Well, there's no question that areas that Russia used to control, it's moving its way back in, because there's a perception around the world that U.S. power is receding. And whether you agree with the last two wars or not, right now, it appears that we are losing them.

And we have a president that's not interested in continuing fighting them. That's a fact.

When it comes to Ukraine, I don't want American blood and treasure to die in Ukraine. I'm not sure our national interests are over there. Our NATO allies are feckless, they're unreliable. So, I do think we should stay out.

Eric mentioned some really great ways to impose crippling sanctions. But I go back to what I've said before. We have a president that would be better if he didn't draw any red lines, than draw them and not enforce them. Instead, a message has been sent that the president cares more about food stamps than fighter jets. And so, that's why any bad man living in a hard country somewhere around the world is saying, OK, it's time to flex my muscles because the U.S. won't do anything.

I think he should stick to the Sandra Fluke press conferences. The last thing I want and I've said this time and time again, is President Obama stumbling into a nuclear war that he doesn't have the guts to fight.

PERINO: Do you want to respond?

BECKEL: Yes, the idea of nuclear war is to annihilate this world, so anybody wouldn't be around to fight.

The other thing I'll make a point. We made this point about Israel. We give Israel the most high-tech technology we have. When I was in the White House, we sold them the best military equipment we could, and we continue to do that. So, that's -- and we give them the best intelligence we can.

Beyond that, the question is, do we get involved ourselves on the ground. The answer is clearly no.

PERINO: Let me ask -- go ahead.

GUTFELD: Well, everybody says no boots on the ground as if there's a group of people yelling, boots on the ground, boots on the ground!

It's the least helpful thing you can say in a chaotic world. It's like telling a misbehaving child that no matter what you do, you'll never get spanked. Daddy and mommy will still give you dessert, we still love you.

The world is besieged by a number of really horrible children who rape, who mutilate the innocent. Saying no boots is no comfort to the world's victims. We are here not to wage war. We are here to offer the possibilities that we will wage war.

If you offer the possibility to wage war, you will not have a war. That's how it works.

The idea that we say, we're out of this. We've got some problems at home. We've got to deal with, you know, these social ills. You guys take care of it.

That's not a message you send around the world when there are people who are dying for freedom.

BECKEL: The message you just said is exactly what we're not sending. We have 600 military bases around the world. We have a four-ocean navy. We are everywhere we could possibly be.

We are not receding. We're cutting back certain things, we should be. I wish we wouldn't build another aircraft carrier, but we are.

I can't -- I would like to see the evidence that somehow any of those military bases were closed.

GUTFELD: Well, I think they should go back and get the missile bases, maybe in Eastern Europe, Poland. I think we should stop saying no boots on the ground. Even if we believe that we're not going to do it.

TANTAROS: Remember, the president said and he made the argument to disarm the missile bases in Eastern Europe because he said Iran wasn't a threat, and he's drawing down our military right now. And he's saying there's no war as an option on the table.

So, why wouldn't you -- it's sad to watch somebody like Putin push around Ukraine. It is sad to watch, but it's not our fight.

GUTFELD: Yes, the thing is, if you keep saying it's not our fight to every fight, you're going to --

TANTAROS: But not every fight.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: Not every fight.

The policy needs to be, if our allies, or if the United States is directly threatened, if it is a national security interest to us or our allies, say for instance, perhaps Jordan, we would consider it, then we get involved and we go and we flatten them and we leave. No inky fingers, no democracy building, no -- yes, we stand with you, and this orgy of ideological democracy promotion and nation-building. Enough of that.

BOLLING: Let me also add another -- yes, if you tell your kids you're not going to spank them, they'll misbehave. Try telling your kid you're going to take their iPhone away and they'll get right in line. And so maybe there are other forms of spanking them.

GUTFELD: I know.

BOLLING: And, yes. Right.

TANTAROS: You like it, though.

BOLLING: Economic spanking, sanction spanking. So, I think we're probably in the same ballpark.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: So, I think we're probably in the same ballpark, which is actually the administering of the spanking is where --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I think Greg is right about not saying no boots on the ground. The fact is, we do have boots on the ground in a lot of places. We just don't make that point enough. And when it comes -- by the way, it was not a missile base in Eastern Europe.

But nonetheless, it was taken away and that was very controversial, I understand that. But the reality is, that there are now very complex geopolitical issues going on around the world that were not there during the Cold War. That's something that any country, particularly the United States, is going to have to deal with in a multi-faceted way in 20, 30 different areas of the world.

I don't know how you do that with -- we've spent as much money as we can in the military on intelligence, what more can we do.

BOLLING: Can I just agree with everything except the last part? We spend as much money as we can on intelligence in the military, a ton more. We can spend a lot more. We could be a lot smarter, and we can win any war through our technology and intel. I think that's probably, in my opinion - -

PERINO: Is anyone else alarmed by the 9/11 Commission report? They haven't done a report in a decade and their first one is basically all the lessons we've learned, you've forgotten.

GUTFELD: Yes, it is the product of a short attention span, the fact that we are now living in a world where everything is happening so quickly. The world might actually be more peaceful than it has been, but the amount of atrocities might have decreased but the reporting of it has increased.

So, we are feeling -- we're feeling the sense that bad things are happening every day. And that -- maybe we're wrong. However, the desire to pull back, the desire for open borders, hating the NSA, that creates a recipe for terror. And you can't have all three at the same time. You've got to be for intelligence, you've got to be for borders, and you've got to be for presence. They're going to come and get you at some point.

BECKEL: I think the 9/11 report is something to pay attention to. Look, before we were dealing with al Qaeda, which was much bigger, and it was centralized and it had a leadership structure. Now it's in 20 different countries by franchise. That by definition presents potential problems.

PERINO: Not only that, but in Syria they've had up to 20,000 foreign fighters that they actually hold Western passports. They have gone for training and they can leave. They can show up in any one of our countries and we are hamstringing on our intelligence to try to track them.

BECKEL: Yes, but --

PERINO: The other issue I think on Jordan, I haven't had a chance to speak a lot on here, I just wanted to make a point on the humanitarian side of things. For the last two years, 13 million refugees have entered into Jordan. They've doubled their population and they're all poor, helpless people living in camps. And we do not have a strategy to try to deal with that problem, which will be one that your children, our grandchildren, are going to have to deal with.

BECKEL: And the United States media has been terrible trying to cover that. And it probably leads to the downfall of Jordan as we know it.

PERINO: Oh gosh, let's hope not. OK, we can do better than that, right, America?

OK, ahead "The Five" --

GUTFELD: No, we --

PERINO: -- Obama relishes the chance to insult Republicans, but in his mind, he's not really all that partisan. We'll debate that claim, next.

Plus, the president may have just lost one of his staunchest supporters. Who is that? Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: She likes certain --

GUTFELD: Ssshh!

BECKEL: Sorry, Greg.

PERINO: There we go again.

GUTFELD: On Monday, President Obama attended the IRS hearings to condemn the corruption that infests the agency. I kid again, he was at a fund- raiser.

There he said some stuff, none of it recorded, because no press was allowed. No biggie, it's not like they'd report anything. When Obama talks, they glisten.

But there, the president claimed he's not very partisan. Perhaps, but compared to what, the red army?

Then, I realized he's right. He's not a partisan, because for him, Democrats are too moderate and too fearful of the change he's unleashed like a bag of gremlins in a crowded theater. Obama succeeded where other progressives have failed making the next Democratic presidential candidate seem like a Republican. It's true, after Obama, everyone looks right because there's nowhere left to go.

But Obama is partisan if you mean any party where George Clooney is a guest. It's where leftists meet in rarified air to discuss the toxic origins of a country that created their opportunities for wealth.

Obama is a partisan to an ideology, a dogma where all calamity serves a higher purpose, where a goal is never reached, only suffered. And that's the gimmick of progressivism. As successful traditions are subverted, the replacement is never spelled out, because there's no alphabet grim enough. It truly is Obama's world. And we're just gagging in it.

All right. Hey, Andrea, let's be honest. Isn't he really bigger than any party? Is that what he really thinks? Like he's not part of the Democratic Party either. He's just -- he's just beyond --

TANTAROS: Oh, I think he's part of a wing of the Democratic Party. But I think when he says "I'm not a partisan," that means if you agree with him. So, if you see things his way, like for example, when Speaker Boehner came out and spoke in favor of immigration reform, President Obama had nice things to say about him. If it goes his way and if you agree with him, then he's not a partisan. And he likes you.

If you disagree with him, he will attack you, like I guess our producer said he did moments ago in a fund-raiser that he was just giving. I actually think the best thing for him, and I know he's fund-raising to keep the Senate, I personally think if I was sitting next to him advising him, the best thing for him would be to lose the senate.

The same way Bill Clinton had to deal with an all Republican Congress, that would be a dream for him. He's not going to get anything through with a Republican House anyway. And then for the next two years, he can demonize Republicans, blame him for everything he can't get done, and use executive orders. Bill Clinton did it, he did it masterfully, but Clinton still said, "I feel your pain." That's what Obama's missing. He doesn't even pretend to care about the crises.

GUTFELD: Bob, aren't -- isn't everybody a partisan? I mean, with the exception of may be senator like a Joe Lieberman. But if you're in a party, you're partisan.

BECKEL: Yes, except -- let me just --let's look at this thing historically. The progressive movement in America is much smaller than it used to be. Labor unions used to be much more powerful. The left used to be much more powerful. Bill sort of took the Democratic Party more to the center.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: Here's the difference, dealing with the Republican Party today, when you used to be able to deal with people like Howard Baker and Bob Dole and Everett Dirksen and Jake Javits, and people who are big people, then you could actually sit down and work out deals.

In the House of Representatives, they have refused to go to conference on anything. About 80 percent of them refused to go to conference, which is where most of this gets done. The problem is that the Republican Party has elected a group of, I hate to say it, but they're midgets. And there is no big standing Republican left that I can see, with the exception maybe being --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They're called little people --

BECKEL: Sorry.

GUTFELD: -- Bob. And I want you to apologize to Dana.

BECKEL: I apologize.

Seriously, I try to look across -- the Democrats, by the way, I would say the same thing about for the most part. But I think that he Republicans --

TANTAROS: Bob, when Republicans came to the table on immigration reform, the president demonized those who didn't. Even when they're willing to compromise, it doesn't matter because they get name called and thrown in the mud anyway, so what's the point?

BECKEL: They never got to conference for immigration reform, that's the point. Harry Reid was the one responsible for killing immigration reform, I agree with that. But he had a chance to get that, but I still say the point is that there are no big players in either House that -- what?

PERINO: It's just that you're making arguments that, all of a sudden, by the time you walk back around, you actually nullified the point you made.

BECKEL: No, not all. I don't consider Harry Reid at the level of a Lyndon Johnson or somebody who can put together deals. I can't find anybody in the Republican Party in either house that stands up to that -- that stands up to the Everett Dirksen level or Howard Baker level.

GUTFELD: Eric, who are you texting?

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: No, I'm reading -- the reason why this is relevant to the conversation, we're talking about President Obama being disengaged. We've talked about that before.

But at 2:57 this afternoon, we get this news breaking on our BlackBerrys that said Marie Harf from the State Department said they have confirmation, they believe, the State Department believes that Russians were firing at -- into Ukraine territory. Not Russian separatists, actual Russian military is firing. So, we've been going back and forth. Yes, Russians themselves are firing.

So, now, 2:57, two and a half hours since then, has President Obama or anyone come out denouncing the Russian government for firing into Ukraine territory? No. Hold on. But he did talk --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Hold on, but he did talk about his basketball -- he gets 80 percent of his free throws give or take a few, his arm is a little bit tired.

TANTAROS: Few, thank God.

BOLLING: He has said that since then, but nothing denouncing Putin, renouncing Putin.

BECKEL: Don't you it's a little silly to talk about his --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I think -- here's what I think, Bob. I think this news that came out at 3:00 today --

PERINO: By the State Department.

BOLLING: -- by the State Department is massive. And no one is talking about it. We should be talking about it, and they should be talking about it.

GUTFELD: Well, the issue here, Dana, essentially, the president belongs to the party of Obama, which is a singular god, like entity that we all aspire to but can never achieve.

PERINO: Well, whoever the president is, then that is the titular head of the party. So, yes, the Democrats have to dance with the ones that won. And that happened to be President Obama this time around. Who knows who it will be next time?

I do find -- partisan wasn't necessarily a bad word. It wasn't a negative word. You can be a partisan and not be a jerk, and that is possible. It doesn't necessarily mean people are like that. But you can still go to conference, and have a bill and say, I'm for these principles, these are my principles. But what are your principles? Can we make a deal? You give that, I'll take this, done.

I mean, that's the part of thing -- it's not about being partisan, it's just about just figuring out a way to compromise.

GUTFELD: To merge the partisanship issues. I don't think there's an issue in front of the Congress with the exception of abortion that can't be resolved by reasonable people sitting down everything --

TANTAROS: Bob, they went to conference over the debt ceiling and budget bill. They've gone to conference on that before, and Republicans caved, on the payroll tax and a number of other things. And heard and caught hell from their base.

And so, now, they're not giving the president his way. And that's just too bad. We can't compromise on everything.

BECKEL: Andrea, the base of the Republican Party has changed and moved way far right. It didn't used to be that way.

TANTAROS: Not way far right. It's just not way far left.

GUTFELD: We have the most -- this has to be the most successful, effective left-wing president in the history of the --

BECKEL: I think -- by the way, I think you're right, Obama's trying to recreate a progressive movement in America. And he can't do it because there's not enough pieces to put it together.

GUTFELD: There you go.

PERINO: Thank goodness.

GUTFELD: All right. Ahead on "The Five," a brutal murderer was put to death for his crimes yesterday. The execution took a little longer than expected, and the media is going crazy. Why doesn't he care as much about his victims? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Well, yesterday death row inmate Joseph Wood was executed in Arizona, and some in the media are outraged over how long it took for him to die.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The convicted killer should have died quickly from lethal injection. Instead, it dragged out for almost two hours. It's the latest execution raising questions about lethal injections and the death penalty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arizona takes nearly two hours to execute an inmate. The demand for answers after another botched death sentence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What went wrong, an execution in Arizona goes on for two hours, some witnesses saying the inmate was gasping and snorting before finally dying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Well, what about the victims of the brutal 1989 murder, Gene and Debbie Dietz? Will an AP reporter document their final gasp for air as one did for Joseph Wood?

Listen here to family members of the victims respond to the execution of the man who shot their loved ones in cold blood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANNE BROWN, SISTER OF VICTIM: Everybody here, from what I heard, said it was excruciating. What's excruciating is seeing your dad lying there in a pool of blood, seeing your sister lying there in a pool of blood. This man deserved it. I shouldn't really call him a man. He deserved everything he had coming to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man, I mean, conducted a horrifying murder. And you guys are going, oh, let's worry about the drug and how he's affected. Why didn't we give him a bullet? Why didn't we give him some Drano? How would you guys feel if it was one of your family members? Would you be talking about the drug or would you be talking about the family member?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: All right, Greg, I'm not in favor of cruel and unusual punishment, but this is called the death penalty. It's not the "Let's hang out and have a good time" penalty.

And you -- we talked about this a lot in the Mumia case and others. The victims are always lost by the media.

GUTFELD: Yes. The media is notoriously liberal and against the death penalty. Therefore, they focus on stories like these, and they're less likely to look at the victims and more at the victimizer, and it's part of our modern culture. We find victims boring. We find the villains interesting.

This is why, you know, not to be a cheerleader, but FOX News is fair and balanced, because you need to hear those people. You need to hear those. Because it's the least fair and balanced news coverage comes when these things happen. They forget about the victims. And you only have so much sympathy in your life, and you should allocate it carefully. You should allocate it to the victims. You know, nobody wants some guy to suffer. But they suffer. They suffer more.

TANTAROS: Dana, what do you think about this? I mean, the media certainly made a big deal about the treatment of this criminal on death row, because they said he gasped for a number of hours. And then they've been telling the tale that a number of different executions have been botched. Is this something that we should be focusing on?

PERINO: Well, I think the Arizona taxpayers deserve some answers from their -- from the state government about what went wrong and how they could make sure that, if they're going to have the death penalty, that it is done within the confines of what the law says it should be, and that it comports with people's compassion or empathy for that point about -- about the cruel and unusual punishment.

There was one other point, though, that she -- we didn't play the sound byte, but later on in her quote there, in the interview, the victims' sister said, "It's ridiculous 25 years later to go through this appeal after appeal. It's ridiculous the paperwork I have."

I actually think that if you are against the death penalty, that is actually where you could focus your efforts to try to help people deal with the judicial system that drags these things out for so long and makes it so much harder for somebody like her and the gentleman with her to get closure.

TANTAROS: Eric, what do you think? You are pro-death penalty. You said just let him die. Who cares how long it takes?

BOLLING: Right. I have no compassion; I have no empathy for the criminal. But there are ways to face the. The reason they get into this trouble is they found the electric chair wasn't -- was too cruel. The people were dying and things were happening. And it was -- so they went to lethal injection.

We can fix this. You're on death row. Your know, after your time is up at the end of the week. I'll let you choose. You want a bullet? You want electric chair? You want a lethal injection, or do you want to hang? It's up to you. We know, then, what the end result is going to be. So you know what? There's your compassion. And that's where my compassion would end.

TANTAROS: Bob, you know, I think I used to be pro-death penalty and then I've moderated my position because if you're going to be pro-life, you should be consistently pro-life. That's just my take on the issue.

And we've seen some people get executed that I don't think should have been executed. But we've seen a lot of people executed in Chicago without a peep from the left.

So if you're going to be pro-life -- which so many on the left are not; on the issue of abortion they're pro-choice -- why don't they show their commitment to life across the board?

BECKEL: Well, listen, I happen to be a pro-life, and I am against the death penalty. One of the reasons I am is that the Constitution does specifically say that the government, not other people, but the government does not have a right to involve themselves in cruel and unusual punishment. This was that instant. It was a mistake, probably.

But the reason a number of states have cut back on the death penalty and frozen it is because we're finding out that more and more of these people have not been lawyered very well. They did not commit crimes. They've put away people who are not guilty. And it seems to me that you've got to take a very hard look at this system and say we've got to make sure that we're not putting people to death who don't deserve to be put to death and when we do, we do it in a humane way, whether we like that word or not.

GUTFELD: That -- that's really what this is. It's not about a botched execution. A botched execution is used as a Trojan horse to talk about the death penalty.

I could be pro-life and pro-death penalty, because I just say you kill the guilty and protect the innocent. I don't think there's hypocrisy there.

BOLLING: By the way, I don't think there are that many cases, if any, of executing the wrong guys.

BECKEL: Oh, my God. There were three of them in Illinois.

TANTAROS: That's why I moderated, because of what Bob said, because there are instances where there have been innocent people executed.

BOLLING: The jury's out on that, exactly.

BECKEL: I think...

BOLLING: I think it's a lot less frequent than you'd say.

BECKEL: It is less -- I mean...

TANTAROS: It's less frequent. But if it happens one time, isn't that enough?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

TANTAROS: I don't know. I don't know. What an interesting block where we have all different views.

And on "The Five," a huge update on the Christian mom who is sentenced to death in Sudan for refusing to renounce her faith. Bob's got a picture of her that you're going to want to stick around to see, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Corporate greed meets government greed. Add a father versus a daughter and, just for fun, make the father a U.S. senator.

Democrat Senator Joe Manchin's daughter is moving her very, very successful company, Mylan, overseas because the business environment her father's party has provided is so restrictive and expensive here, she feels it's her job to move out of the U.S.

You know where I stand: I'm a free market capitalist, and I warned lawmakers for years this was going to happen. Companies flee the U.S., bringing high-paying jobs with them. Wake up.

Let me guess: you and Obama think they shouldn't go, she shouldn't go.

BECKEL: I think that the law says she's allowed to go. I think you ought to close the law. But what we don't take into account here, and I'll try to get you the number. I can't give it to you exactly today, but I will by tomorrow. The number of foreign companies that move here and establish themselves as U.S. corporations. Now, it goes both ways.

It seems to me the pharmaceutical companies seem to be leading the way here, and they do that by buying up pharmaceutical companies overseas and then declaring themselves pharmaceutical companies of another country.

BOLLING: Regardless, the reason why she did it is because they have the top tax rate is 35 percent. I think they're paying in the mid-20s or so.

But Ands, she's going to bring her tax rate down to 21 percent the first year, teens the second and third year going forward. Who wouldn't make the move? You've got to make that move, right?

TANTAROS: Yes. Most of the time people are fleeing car wrecks, right, or train wrecks. The fact that U.S. companies are running away from the United States and not -- their government and their laws is a huge problem. And President Obama wants to keep them here, wants to keep their wallet here. He's saying, "We don't care if you go. Just leave your money here."

On the pharmaceutical industry, the point that's so nauseating about this is so many in the pharmaceutical industry, like Pfizer were the first to the table when it came to Obamacare. They pushed for a law that would be imposed on everybody else. Then Pfizer tried to buy AstraZeneca so they could stash their money away in Ireland and be subject to this British tax rate. Meanwhile, guess who gets stuck with the bill for Obamacare? The U.S. taxpayers.

So these inversions is what they're trying to do, which is what Pfizer was trying to do, are the hottest issue in business right now. U.S. companies don't want to be here anymore. They want to be something -- somewhere else, which tells them that there's a real problem here at home.

BOLLING: Rather than fixing the problem -- either one of you guys take this -- fixing the problem by making it more business-friendly to stay here: lowering the corporate tax rate. They want to slap some sanctions, some fines, some fees, and force companies not to do it.

GUTFELD: Well, in this day and age when government grows, that's compassion. When corporations grow, it's greed.

TANTAROS: Yes.

GUTFELD: And what's amazing is, why are we worried about China right now? Because they woke up. They woke up to capitalism. It's state-run. But it's capitalism. The result: massive eradication of poverty. The reason why the world has gotten better is because China's gotten better. The poverty level has lowered because of that. An explosion in new wealth. This is because communists are now better at capitalism than the capitalists.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on what the -- the way to fix this?

BOLLING: Well, I think it's a simple question. Should America be the best place in the world to do business or not? If the answer is yes, then we have one simple thing that we can do, and that's the corporate tax rate. Because all of these -- you take all of these issues. It traces it back to that one issue.

Interestingly, today, four Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee, Carper, Bennett, Warner and Casey, all said that they would not back -- would not back President Obama's proposal to...

BECKEL: Let's make one point here. We are sitting here talking about an infinitesimal number of U.S. corporations. We're making it sound like there's a big flood of people leaving, and there are not.

BOLLING: Billions and billions...

BECKEL: There are not. What about your idea? I like your idea. But your idea is...

GUTFELD: But there are actually little children leaving. The little children. That's how the Democrats do it, when little children are coming in. It's babies.

BECKEL: No, but seriously, the reason they come here, the reason the foreign companies come here is because we have the best workers. We have the best technology. We have the best universities.

BOLLING: Highest tax rates, most restrictive...

PERINO: Wait a minute. But...

BECKEL: Do you want to move to Nairobi?

BOLLING: They want to go. Can we please just get this in? President Obama said this just a few minutes ago. You have to listen to this line, "fair share" coming up once again. And you wonder why I call this guy a socialist. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need to stop companies from renouncing their citizenship just to get out of paying their fair share of taxes.

Let's everybody get together, Democrats and Republicans, to deter companies from rushing to take advantage of this tax loophole, and let's make sure that we're rewarding companies that are investing and paying their fair share here in the United States. I'm not interested in punishing these companies, but I am interested in economic patriotism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And Bob, that is why -- that is why we're talking about it. Because President Obama decided to make this a campaign issue. We didn't come up with this on our own. The president and his staff has decided that this is what they're going to -- that this is where they're going to place their flag in the ground for the campaign...

BECKEL: What is wrong with fair share? What is wrong with fair share?

BOLLING: Our tax rate is the highest in the world. Thirty...

BECKEL: Oh, so what? We still make more money, make more profits. Take a look at the Dow Jones.

GUTFELD: It will never be enough for you, Bob, will it? Why not make it 50 percent, or 55 percent?

BECKEL: I think we've got to raise corporate taxes.

PERINO: You didn't even realize you were supposed to be defending President Obama there. That was kind of refreshing. You just said that it's a stupid issue. So you're telling President Obama, don't run on this in the campaign, because it doesn't make sense.

BECKEL: I think it doesn't make sense. I agree. And last time around, it wasn't corporations as much as it was the 1 percent of people who were just trying to have some vacation money, save, maybe invest. He said that was greedy. That's called survival.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The hedge fund guys are more than surviving. Those guys can survive on what they've got in their pockets.

BOLLING: Next up on "The Five," could you go an entire day without complaining? How about three weeks? One of you guys just did that. Are any of us up to the challenge? Find out next. That was a terrible piece (ph).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Did you ever go three weeks without complaining? One guy just did, and he says it changed his life. Tim Ferriss, the author of "The Four-Day Work Week," said at first he was only able to go 11 days without complaining. But eventually, he was able to go all 24. Would any of us at this table be able to do that? Who's the biggest complainer around here?

Well, first of all, this is a television business, and I discovered that it's just about everywhere. I do pride myself on not being much of a complainer. But let me go around. Eric, do you think you're a complainer?

BOLLING: It depends here. I complain. But what's technically complaining?

BECKEL: It's not being angry about something. Complaining is -- the definition of it.

BOLLING: Look, the producers, Porter would probably say I'm the biggest complainer, but I just really -- just want to, you know, like when I complain, I try to make the show better. I, like, complain about some topics.

TANTAROS: Complaining for a purpose.

BOLLING: Yes.

TANTAROS: Is that why you do it so much?

BECKEL: Dana, what would you rate yourself in complaining from 1 to 10?

PERINO: Probably a 6, 7.

BECKEL: Six, seven?

PERINO: Depends on the day. I mean, if I'm not, I'm...

TANTAROS: Keep going. PERINO: If it's WiFi, I will fix it. But...

BECKEL: Well, see the WiFi wasn't -- that wasn't you complaining because you were angry, because the thing didn't work, which is a legitimate thing to do.

PERINO: Right. But then it got fixed.

BECKEL: But there's something -- instead of, like, complaining about -- some people have the complaining in their DNA. Now Greg, I'm not pointing my finger at you, but where would you put yourself on that scale?

GUTFELD: No. I -- I am constantly complaining. I know that. But a complaint, remember, is a reminder of how lucky your life is. Like people don't walk around and go, like, "Ow, this cancer is irritating." No, they're saying, "Damn it, the printer's not working." When your problems are -- yes, when your problems are the printer's not working or that you can't find a taxi, and all these things, that pretty much means your life's OK. That's the way I look at it.

BECKEL: That's interesting.

All right. What about you on 1 to 10?

TANTAROS: I don't complain very much.

BECKEL: Really?

TANTAROS: Really.

BECKEL: I heard you complaining a bunch about vegetables.

TANTAROS: On this -- yes. I don't -- I definitely don't think I'm the biggest complainer at this table, for sure. Do I complain in life? Yes, it's hard not to.

BECKEL: Well, I find complaining to be a sort of a useless exercise. Although if you walk around this building, or any TV broadcast network, that's all you hear is complaints.

GUTFELD: Well, complaints are necessary therapy.

PERINO: Yes. How do you make things better if you don't complain?

GUTFELD: Yes. But it's just something you do to relieve stress. It's like getting -- you know, loosening the screws.

BECKEL: But why do you think it's indigenous to the TV industry, seems to me, more than anything else?

GUTFELD: I think it's everywhere.

BOLLING: Yes. It's everywhere.

BECKEL: You do? You think so?

BOLLING: People complain all the time.

BECKEL: Dana, you and I both came out of politics where there's a lot of complaining. But do you find the TV industry to be more complainers than the political industry?

PERINO: No, not necessarily.

BECKEL: Really?

PERINO: I don't know. I just -- here's the thing. I think when you complain about the little stuff, then that's what adds up and then it weighs you down. So you can't complain that they have chicken noodle soup as a special two days in a row, those little things. You should only complain about things you can control.

GUTFELD: But everything to you is bad.

PERINO: And you can't control it, let it go.

GUTFELD: Little things. There are no big deals in your life.

BECKEL: There are no big deals in my view except for death and taxes, I guess.

"One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'm going to go first. thank you, Greg, for that support. This is something that I would never, ever do. This is why I don't go whale watching. It's why I do not go in a kayak in the ocean. Take a look at these people.

They were kayaking off the coast of Argentina. And they end up with a -- on the top -- on the back of a humpback whale in the ocean. Now, Bob, look at that. They're on...

BECKEL: That is scary.

PERINO: Can you imagine?

BECKEL: No.

PERINO: Would you ever do that?

BECKEL: No.

GUTFELD: This is perverted.

PERINO: Why? Because of the humpback whales?

GUTFELD: First gay marriage and now people jumping on whales.

PERINO: Well, they were in a kayak.

GUTFELD: Still disgusting.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: I'm writing an angry letter.

PERINO: OK. Well, we look forward to that complaint.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

PERINO: OK. Andrea, you're next.

TANTAROS: OK. Jimmy Kimmel last night shows how much people love Apple. And if you're Apple, you've got to be feeling pretty good about this. They used a Casio watch for only 20 bucks, put an Apple emblem on it, and asked people how much they would love this watch and how much they want this watch. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest from Apple. It's the iTime smart watch. Do you like that it tells you the date as well as the time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think that's a neat feature, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you excited that it's always in airplane mode?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's good. That's good. Definitely saves on the batteries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has a timer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just like that it has an Apple insignia on the back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's Apple, that would be what would impress me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you would buy anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would pretty much buy anything from Apple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even a Casio watch with a sticker on the back?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: If you're Apple, how psyched are you right now? I'm an Apple shareholder. I'm very excited.

BOLLING: That is a powerful brand.

TANTAROS: It is.

PERINO: Eric, you're next.

BOLLING: OK. So LeBron James has decided to go back to Cleveland. We knew that. He wrote a heartfelt letter that some say brought them to tears explaining his decision.

Frank Caliendo did a brilliant job reading that letter. And let me remind you, he did it in Morgan Freeman's voice. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK CALIENDO, COMEDIAN: Before anyone ever cared where I would play basketball, I was a kid from northeast Ohio. It's where I walked. It's where I ran. It's where I cried. I'm ready to accept the challenge. I'm coming home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And that goes on for like three minutes. It was fantastic. Caliendo's awesome, and that was on the "Mike and Mike in the Morning" show.

PERINO: That's a good show, right?

BOLLING: Yes.

PERINO: OK. You're next.

GUTFELD: Well, as you know, I'm incredibly patriotic, Dana. But I hate July 4th, which was last month, because everybody's wearing skimpy clothing, like halter tops and cutoffs. Even the women. It's disgusting to me.

Finally a solution, we have a -- an American patriotic burka. Now I can enjoy my Fourth of July while also subjugating my body to total modesty. And this makes me feel comfortable. And it's actually kind of cool under there, because you don't have to wear that much. There's a little website there where you can order it. And I'm sure you'll be flocking there as soon as this show is over.

BECKEL: Do they have those in your size?

PERINO: He has to have it hemmed.

GUTFELD: Yes, thank you.

PERINO: So he doesn't trip.

GUTFELD: Thank you very much.

PERINO: All right. Bob.

BECKEL: We all remember the woman that the Sudanese government had decided to put to death, the death penalty because she refused to denounce her Christianity. She had a husband who was a Christian, two children. But she chose to take the death penalty.

Fortunately, because of worldwide opinion, she got out of Sudan, and she went to Italy, to Rome. And she met with the pope. And I want to congratulate the pope for doing that. I want to remind people that this is just another example of what happens in Muslim countries to Christians.

And at some point, maybe the world will wake up, certainly the pope I hope wakes up on this. It is time for us to denounce them for what they are, which are barbarians, and people who mutilate people, people who kill people, and people who destroy Christians who were there before their butts were there. So there you go.

PERINO: A very powerful picture of the pope that I'm sure will get worldwide recognition.

BECKEL: I hope so. Because it's really -- the pope has not, frankly, said that much about it. And not a lot of other people have either.

GUTFELD: Because the pope doesn't have an army. We have an army.

BECKEL: That's true. That's true.

PERINO: Don't forget to set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." We'll see you back here tomorrow.

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