This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 10, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Just tell the doctor you fell on it. Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and she snowboards on a lentil, it's Dana Perino. This is "The Five."
(MUSIC)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This isn't theater. This is a problem. I'm not interested in photo-ops. I'm interested in solving a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: "I'm not interested in photo-ops," said the man about the border, apathetic to the nature of our current disorder. The man seen here, and here, and here. "I'm not interested in photo-ops," said the man shaking hands, more intrigued by the gay, the bi, and the trans. The man seen here, and here, and here. "I'm not interested in photo-ops," says the man in retreat. There are no more pictures when the world has you beat. The border, Iraq, the Middle East on fire. There are no more photo-ops when slug in a mire. The economy, the V.A., the IRS on trial, and yet here you are, aloof and a smile. No more halos overhead, no more leaders to greet, no more athletes to hug, no Bergdahls to meet. Shooting pool as Rome burns. An insidious bluff, at least for once that's a true photo-op. Little Dr. Seuss there. Hey, you know, we've looked long and hard for pictures for photo-ops, because I wanted to find out if President Obama really doesn't like getting his picture taken. We couldn't find very many, except for these.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
GUTFELD: So, Eric --
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Just a few.
GUTFELD: This could have filled up two days. Is this right up there with like "read my lips", and "I didn't have sex with that woman", in terms of idiocy and kind of representing a presidency?
BOLLING: I'm not sure. I think he has to say I'm not interested in the photo-op so he doesn't have to go there. Look, drink a few brewskies, check; play some pool, check. You know, don't go -- get some cash (ph) from some donors, check. He's doing what he does best. He likes to party, hang out. He doesn't do very well when he has to go down to the border and solve a crisis, because he doesn't have any answers. You know what? He's a lame duck president and he's doing what he does best, being lame.
GUTFELD: Well, this raises a good question, Dana. He didn't go to the border. Was it because if he went to the border, so did the media. And you wouldn't bring all these other folks down here to see what was going on. Is that --
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: What would be the problem with that? Bring people down to see it?
GUTFELD: Because it would look bad. That's why he didn't go there. He went to a bar instead.
PERINO: I'm just going to defend the photo-op.
GUTFELD: Sure.
PERINO: Because a presidency is a photo-op. Let's go back for a couple of things. I thought of one thing today. Do you have the picture of Ronald Reagan at the Brandenburg Gate? A lot of thought went into this picture. Mike Deaver, who worked for Ronald Reagan, was considered like the guru of modern political communication.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: That picture was not just him giving a speech, that picture said this is the dividing line between good and evil. And I'm on the side of good, I'm the leader of the free world and I'm here to tell you that communism is going to end. That's what the -- that's that message. So, when President Obama said he doesn't want to go to the border, OK, fine. But when he's not interested in photo-ops, if that's true, then don't take photos of night before when you're playing pool, and you're drinking beer, because every photograph is the message. That is your communication. So, he could have gone to the border and actually used it in his favor.
GUTFELD: Yes. Bob, why is that? Does he just -- is he at a point that he doesn't care at all? Because the fact is, that -- it's kind of jarring when you're shooting pool while people are going nuts just miles away.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: No, I think -- let's go to the Reagan example. In that case, that's exactly right. It was a message that was well thought-out. But you didn't see the ugly side of communism behind that wall. I think if I were advising Obama, it would be, I wouldn't go either. Because you would get the media down there and you would get pictures of -- they're very disturbing. And, frankly, right now, the Democrats don't need disturbing pictures. Now, if he had thought about it carefully enough, they could have scripted it in a way, he could make it positive. But I don't think they know how to do that very well. I frankly -- look, I defend him every day, and I try the best I can. But some days are just longer than others and this has been a longer couple of days.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Did you like my poem?
BECKEL: I thought your poem was very well done.
GUTFELD: I worked on it all night, in my pajamas.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: You wear pajamas? That's comforting.
GUTFELD: Yes, it is comforting.
(LAUGHTER)
BECKEL: Are they flannel?
GUTFELD: I don't know anymore. Andrea --
PERINO: Do they have feet?
GUTFELD: Yes, they do have feet, they have footsies, and they have a little flap in case of emergencies. Andrea, my theory is, is that President Obama hates small government people. He thinks that they're no government people. So, he kind of punishes them through inaction. He's like, if you don't like government, why would you want me to go down there? Does that make any sense?
ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: I don't know if he puts that much thought into it. But I do think you're into something with the passive/aggressiveness in which he's handling the border situation. It's almost like, all right, everybody's yelling for me to do something, I'm not going to do something. I'm going to do whatever I want to do.
GUTFELD: Yes.
TANTAROS: It's tremendously passive/aggressive. There is one photo, though, Greg, that he didn't like. One photo-op that he wished he wouldn't have taken, and that's with the Danish prime minister.
GUTFELD: Yes.
TANTAROS: Maybe Michelle was the one who really didn't want him to take that picture. But I agree, he should have gone to the border with Governor Perry, or at least gone to one of the immigration processing centers, and said, even though if it would have been disingenuous, you know what? I don't want to do photo-op, no cameras. I'm going to go inside.
PERINO: Absolutely.
TANTAROS: I'm going to see first hand. I'm going to talk to these people, because you don't need to schedule a photo-op. I mean, Dana knows this firsthand. If you walk out of an immigration processing center, saying, I don't need cameras. The cameras are going to be taking pictures of you coming out anyway and it's going to be all over the press the next day. Then, he can say after seeing what I saw today in there, tell those human stories, take the moral high ground away from Republicans on the issue. And because he's so interested in politics anyway, he could have blamed them. He could have said, this is a humanitarian crisis. I've been here, and removed that one attack line that they have been beating him over the head with, which is -- you don't care enough to go.
BECKEL: Yes. But, you know, the problem here is that, when somebody said it, they expect him to go down there and come up with a solution. Well, there's no solution that he's going to come up by going down there. The fact of the matter is, the solutions are very few; options are very few. I think he's taken the few that he's had. He's asked for Congress to give money to do that. Congress is pushing back. I think that's a mistake on their part.
PERINO: I think that the announcement later today, late this afternoon, is that they're getting closer to an agreement, the leaders are.
BECKEL: But I think it's one of those situations that developed for president -- it's like the Middle East. You can try and try and try as hard as you want, but you can't --
PERINO: You know, last weekend, Peggy Noonan's column, she had a great line where she said, usually when you try to run out the clock, it's when you're winning. You don't try to do it when you're losing. And he is the president for the next two years, the President of the United States. That's the foreign policy of the United States. And there's another constituency that he could have talked to by doing a border visit, and it's not the illegal immigrants, it's not conservatives, it was the government employees -- the people that work for the government who are down there doing their very best, and a visit like that from a commander in chief would have probably meant a lot to them and shown them that he's listening to them. He's hearing them. Now, they'll say, well, he gets briefings all the time. But again, the message is borne out by the visuals. And the only visual they have for the weekend is the pool playing.
BOLLING: Or this could be another -- maybe they think about these things. They say, well, we've got this going on. And we have the IRS. How long is this going to last? We're just kind of not talking about it.
PERINO: Run the clock is this. BOLLING: Well, yes, but the clock keeps starting over. They find the next thing to run it. All the media --
GUTFELD: Etch and sketch. It's etch and sketch, shake it and it's gone.
BOLLING: The IRS, V.A., Bergdahl, these things all for some reason. Our attention span is so short. The V.A., it was huge. Bergdahl trade, it was huge. ISIS crisis, everything. A couple days later, it's gone. So, a couple days down the road, are we going to forget about the border when the next thing bubbles up? And he's very smart. If he goes to the border, he buys more news time, the news cycle lasts maybe a day or two.
BECKEL: You know, he needs to explain to the American people why he's stopping (ph). If I were him, I would go to Mexico and ask the Honduran president and El Salvadoran president to come there and sit down, and say, we're taking your people because you're driving them out of your country. We're not going to do it anymore.
PERINO: Or he could summon them to Washington.
BECKEL: Bring them to Washington, whatever it takes.
PERINO: Whatever he wants.
BECKEL: The head of states of the three countries that are doing the most of -- the people are coming from there and saying, enough. It's your practices that are driving these people to leave. And you're going to have to get yourself right. Or we're going to stop helping you.
GUTFELD: Well, let's -- I want to -- I want to get this sound on tape from Senator Coburn. We're spending, I guess, billions of dollars on our money -- of our money on all sorts of stuff for these children, to take care of them and get them back. He has an interesting message here. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the kids that are already here? Fifty-two thousand of them. By the end of the year, it's projected to be 80,000. We have to find a way to deal with the kids that are already here. And that's mostly what the -- you know, half of the money the president requested today goes towards the kids that are already here.
SEN. TOM COBURN, R - OK: It's a wrong -- it's a wrong approach. Look, for $8 million, we can put them all on a first class seat back to their homes. That's $8 million. That's a first class seat, one way, to each of their homes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Does that make sense? Just $8 million as opposed to a couple of billion? Does that make sense for --
TANTAROS: Sure. But the government has become a big fat blundering behemoth that can't figure anything out. I mean, do you really think that $4 billion is going to be appropriated in the right way to get these kids back? It's PR campaigns in these Central American countries, what's that going to do? You know, the GAO said that it would take $3.7 billion to seal the border in the first place. So, again, you're just wasting money on something that, frankly, Greg, the president could have made a very easy fix to get these Central American kids quickly deported. It would have been a very quick fix to a change in the law. But the president -- and I believe he's so incompetent because he doesn't have the gubernatorial experience that Bill Clinton had, that Bush had, that Reagan had. You know, governors actually have to do stuff.
GUTFELD: Yes.
TANTAROS: Senators don't. He thinks like a senator. And his hope is just that the media will cover for him, but as you point out -- these scandals, short attention span, he's thinking, maybe these will go away.
BECKEL: Well, Coburn is a master of coming up with these little fixes like this. There's a reason they left their homes, and the reason they don't want to go back. And that is their mothers and fathers or both didn't want to see them killed. Honduras is the largest number of murders in any country in the world per capita.
GUTFELD: Do you just send them on their own?
BECKEL: No, you just -- no, you can't send them back.
GUTFELD: Coyotes?
BOLLING: Well, Bob, under that theory, we're going to take people from Syria, we're going to take people from North Korea, we're going to take people from all sorts of countries, in Africa. That theory is very flawed.
BECKEL: Jordan takes them.
BOLLING: You know what you're missing here -- he doesn't want to send them back. He can talk all he wants about sending -- he's not going to send them back. They're not going anywhere. And no one else is going anywhere. They're going to eventually assimilate into our society and everyone is going to get the message, come on over, you don't have to go back. And this is --
BECKEL: Why send the kids back and put them in harm's way?
(CROSSTALK)
TANTAROS: Bob, they're in harm's way now, because there's a business of preying on immigrants. It's been happening for decades. They are in danger, these young girls, of being raped. There's a major health crisis happening.
BECKEL: I understand that.
TANTAROS: They're a danger of them being preyed upon. I'm not sure that they're better off, because look at the footage that we're seeing. It's inhumane what's happening to these kids.
GUTFELD: What about the U.N.? Isn't the U.N. involved in the border disputes and repatriation and that sort of thing? Why can't they fork over the dough?
BOLLING: It's our money.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: It's our money.
PERINO: Laundering the money.
GUTFELD: Can we get a refund? Wait a second. Can we all get a tax deduction on our taxes get a tax deduction if we count these kids as dependents?
TANTAROS: I see the wheels turning.
GUTFELD: I have -- I'll take 5,000 dependents.
PERINO: I think reuniting children when possible with their parents is the best option. That's what we try to do here in America. If a family has a problem and they have to go into foster care, there is compassion and empathy that we try to show to children. And I think reuniting them with their parents and say, we understand why you were trying, it's not going to work. If you want to apply, here's the --
BECKEL: I'm going to tell you how far left I am. I would get their parents and bring them to the United States.
TANTAROS: They're going to be coming anyway.
GUTFELD: Well, if they're --
PERINO: Well, that's the false hope. That's what they believe.
GUTFELD: Yes, it's the magnet. The kids are the magnet.
BOLLING: Yesterday, you said send them back.
GUTFELD: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BECKEL: I said send them back, and get the alternative, it occurred to me today that the alternative is to bring the families out of those dangerous places.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: No, I've never been to Honduras, but I've been to South America, I've been to Rio de Janeiro, there's a lot of crime in Rio, too. Should we take every Brazilian that wants to come here too?
BECKEL: Well, that's frustration which --
BOLLING: No, no, I'm not, Bob. I'm talking about a lot of crime in the -- throughout the country of Brazil.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Is it Obama's fault that these people are coming here?
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: We should take them all?
BECKEL: No.
PERINO: (INAUDIBLE) fault and I think the blame game is getting a little bit tired. Now, it's Thursday. I think now people are sort of ready for leaders to come up with some sort of solution. But he -- let's just not try to assign blame. But he is responsible, given that he is the president of the United States.
BECKEL: I agree with that.
PERINO: he has to do something. What I would hope is he could partner with the governors because they are the ones that actually have to govern and do things in their state, and they need the federal government's support because it's a national border. That should be -- they should be able to sit down and do that.
BECKEL: I think you're right. I don't think he wants to send them back, because he thinks he's sending them back to their death and I think he's right.
GUTFELD: Well, votes. Coming up, President Obama called this meeting with Rick Perry last night on the border crisis constructive. But the Texas governor has a different account and you'll hear about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: President Obama had to sit down, a showdown sit-down with Texas Governor Rick Perry in Dallas yesterday over the border crisis. The governor is fed up. Here was his reaction after the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY, R - TEXAS: I don't know whether he's inept, or there's something else going on. As I've said before. But the fact is, the border's not secure. The first thing I asked him when I got onto air force one, I said, Mr. President, I really want you to come and see this. I said, this is important for you to absorb, as a father, but more importantly as the president of the United States, to see the humanitarian crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: House Speaker Boehner is mad as hell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, R-OH, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is a problem of the president's own making. He's been president for five and a half years. When's he going to take responsibility for something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: But most importantly, the American citizens are sick and tired of all this. The taxpayer has had it. Listen to this Houston mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNADETTE LANCEUN, OUTRAGED HOUSTON RESIDENT: It's not right. Billions of dollars borrowed from the White House to help feed and house them. Well, what about the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kids here in our neighborhood, in our country? Not just in this neighborhood, but in our country. All these kids, really? Why can't they go back? I'm sorry that the parents are in poor living conditions, or surroundings or whatever's going on there -- I don't care. I care what's going on right here in my own backyard, my neighborhood. Am I the only one in this community that's out here that's watching the news this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) morning? Oh, my God. I feel alone right now in this. I'm very saddened by it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: So, Boehner -- oh, go ahead.
GUTFELD: I was going to say she's racist.
BOLLING: Because she disagrees?
GUTFELD: Yes, she disagrees. I think so.
BOLLING: She's racist because she wants to send the kids back.
GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. I just want to point out that civil rights activists should be looking at black neighborhoods, and look at the large groups, the support need when immigrants come in, ignoring that concern. Why would they ignore that concern?
BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts?
PERINO: Well, I'm listening to her, because I only read it earlier and then watching it. So, this is another reason I think that President Obama could have gone to the border, maybe not necessarily to show -- I'm not saying he should walk through a detention center and show him the children, but you can have a meeting with the community leaders just to see and hear -- presidents do this a lot, right? When there's a tragedy, the president of the United States goes and he's the shoulder to cry on. And his -- people want to know, are you listening to me? Can you hear me? And that provides him some breathing room, too, when he tries to work out some sort of policy response, because I think she's representing some moms and dads down there who are frustrated and concerned, worried and scared. It's different when you live on -- in a border state than when you live in New England or the mid-Atlantic coast, or Denver even.
BOLLING: Bob, Rick Perry's fed up. John Boehner's fed up. Houston mom is fed up. Are you fed up?
BECKEL: No. I would say, first of all, about Rick Perry, who is running for president. That was a campaign commercial he did. I checked with the brain room and I found he had been down to the border three times in all this. He is an overblown, loud-mouth, not very smart guy who took the president of the United States and made a photo-op for himself because he's running for president and he's going to lose.
BOLLING: Well, maybe he won that, if he got the president --
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Yes, we ran it here. That's a big surprise.
BOLLING: Look, maybe he accomplished his goal.
BECKEL: And Boehner got mad --
BOLLING: By the way, President Obama played that little game, the political photo-op game, I meet you (ph) game, quite often. I remember --
TANTAROS: What, little game?
BOLLING: Sat down with a couple of people in Boston.
TANTAROS: Little game?
BOLLING: Yes, go ahead.
TANTAROS: My point is -- why is it always a game? It's always a game, even if it involves children. Even if it involves taking away funds for truly American underprivileged kids, poor kids in those communities. This is going to take away resources from them. This is an issue that is not Republican or Democrat. The reason that Rick Perry is upset because he is legitimately dealing with this every single day. He doesn't get to get on his jet and fly back to Washington, D.C., and chug beer and play pool. And John Boehner is sick of it because the Republican Party, every time there's a serious issue, like the debt ceiling, he backs them into the corner and tries to paint them as anti-poor, anti-black, anti-woman, anti-Latino, anti-kid. It's enough. It's enough. It will backfire.
BECKEL: What's enough is for the Republicans to start voting for some of this aid --
(CROSSTALK)
TANTAROS: See? There we go, there we go. You don't vote for this? You hate kids.
BOLLING: And then he says?
PERINO: Well, I'll just say that after the president does all that, then he says -- well, yes, it's totally screwed up on my watch, but what's your solution? You come up with a solution. And then at that point, you're like, you're the president of the United States, you set the foreign policy of the country. So, we've got this crisis. He said he's seen it coming since October. That's what I think they're also frustrated about. The administration tries to have it both ways and said, well, we tried to warn you about this since October. If that's true, why do they need an emergency $3.7 billion with policy reform --
BECKEL: Somebody said that Rick Perry -- governors have to deal with this day by day. Has anyone heard anything that Perry's come up to deal with it?
(CROSSTALK)
TANTAROS: Seal the border? Legitimately seal it?
BOLLING: Come up with the solution. Dana is right. You're the president, you find a solution.
PERINO: But the border security issue -- yes, of course, the governor's there. They're very much for stronger border enforcement. And they would probably support a comprehensive bill. But they don't believe that the border enforcement's going to be there first.
GUTFELD: Yes, and, by the way, no one has seen --
PERINO: That's the first step. GUTFELD: Has anybody been able to read the bill? We kind of know what's in it. There's like 11 million people who are going to become citizens. We don't know what the border triggers are. We don't know how enforcement -- we don't know this stuff.
BOLLING: Can we do this very quickly? Because we got to squeeze this in. We promised. Sergeant Tahmooressi had a day in court in Mexico yesterday, sent back to jail, quick round on this one. Ands, 100 days behind bars. Maybe President Obama should focus -- how about a photo-op there?
TANTAROS: Completely shameful that he hasn't spoken out on this. He's spoken about a player coming out of the closet in the NBA. He's spoken out about, I think we mentioned, the beer summit -- issues that are not serious as this. The Mexican government must be hilariously laughing. And I think it's one of the reasons too that they're aiding the Guatemalans and bringing a lot of these kids up. They're helping these Central American countries traffic these kids over their border. And who cares? Americans keep going to Mexico, they keep spending their money. President Obama keeps giving them aid. As long as he's checked out, well, why stop now? And why release the marine?
BECKEL: We interviewed, we did this discussion, and his parents said that the government was doing an enormous job trying to get him back. The Mexicans are the ones that are going to get the black eye out of this. The Mexicans have caused more problems with us on the border than any other country, and yet we continue to try to pretend that these are great allies. The Mexican government as it now stands is an enemy of the United States.
PERINO: Mexico says that -- Mexico's defense of this situation, or response to the media, is that Mexico is a nation of laws and enforce its laws. I thought, how clever, right?
BECKEL: When I was in Mexico, they threw me in jail -- I got out pretty quick.
PERINO: Legit?
BECKEL: Well, I was drunk. But that's it.
GUTFELD: Maybe if the marine had wandered off and his dad grew a really neat beard.
BOLLING: There you go. Gotcha. Coming up, is the media's love affair with President Obama finally over? A lot of journalists are fed up and demanding more access to the White House. Andrea has that scoop coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TANTAROS: So is the media finally fed up with President Obama? Thirty-eight journalism groups just sent a letter to the White House demanding more access and slamming the administration's history of, quote, "politically driven suppression of news."
But there's certainly plenty in the mainstream media who are still happy to play along and make excuses for the president's failures, even on this immigration mess.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's also this immigration reform bill that's passed in the Senate. It's dead on arrival in the House. Is it a situation where you think members of Congress would rather have the political issue than a potential resolution?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since the Senate passed that comprehensive immigration overhaul, it has been held up in the House by your Republican colleagues.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I have seen refugees pouring over borders. God help if you're ever in need of help. And you show up, and there's a bus telling you to get out. This is America. Just -- just read what we're about. Just read it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TANTAROS: So is that why he doesn't have to go to the border, Greg? Because journalists are still carrying his water, and not accurately reporting the crisis?
GUTFELD: I don't understand. I mean, OK, what's driving me nuts here isn't them. It's the ones that are now complaining about him. Those are the ones that tick me off. The people that are complaining about Obama is not answering their calls. Things like that. It's like an arsonist complaining about the sirens. You know, you got him in there. You made that bed. Now you've got to lie in it.
If Obama got caught smoking a cigarette, they would accuse the Republicans of selling him the pack. So I find that a lot of the whining and the planning and all of this stuff is basically because they already won. They already got him elected.
TANTAROS: Eric, how do you feel about these 38 journalism groups? They're hitting the president, of course. The president pledged to be the most transparent in history. we know that's not true. But is this a "better late than never" situation?
BOLLING: Wow. Wrote that down right there. Smartest man I know, in -- in this building once said to me democracy doesn't work until the media does its job. Six years too late, but better late than never, perhaps.
GUTFELD: I didn't say that.
BOLLING: No, not you. The other smartest guy. The question is, though, if Hillary Clinton is POTUS 45, will they then spend the -- the following six or eight years being, say, lapdog media for her, because they're afraid to be anti-woman? Is that possible? And then do we have to -- we'll do the same charade all over again?
TANTAROS: And Dana, these 38 journalism groups aren't upset because of the different scandals. They're upset because they can't get access. So it's all about them. It's not really about the importance...
PERINO: The White House especially in the last probably 30 years, I guess, is the best way to put it, as technology increases and access in all of these different things, the groups get a little more professionalized, then the White House team tries to do as best they can to protect their turf. And I would try to be responsive. But I understand that the reporters have some complaints.
And you've heard about this for a long time. Remember, the most important one to me was the one about photographers, not allowing the photographers to come in and take a picture. And President Obama never takes a bad picture. So it would be a simple thing to be -- allow them to come in.
Remember that the White House does have its own camera crew paid for by taxpayers that follows him around. It's like a digital camera crew, so outside of the White House photographers.
Can I just say one thing, because I'm stuck on something that Savannah Guthrie said on "The Today Show." She said that the members of Congress only want an issue; they don't want a solution. And they just want to be political when it comes to immigration.
And I think she was there, as a reporter at the White House at the time. The person that was most political about immigration and ruined a comprehensive immigration reform effort was Senator Harry Reid. And he was backed by other Democrats, including Senator Obama, who were planning to run on that issue in the 2008 election.
So I think that was a little bit unfair to the members of Congress who have been trying to work on something. It was Reid that pulled that Bill on Memorial Day of 2007.
TANTAROS: Bob, when you used to guest host on "Crossfire," back in the day -- was that the year 2000, and I was one of the interns and I used to bring you the coffee when you used to guest host. CNN was very, very acutely covering the Elian Gonzalez issue. And Greg brought this up earlier in the week.
Remember this picture when they took him at gunpoint? The media covered this 24 hours a day, seven days a week. What if these kids were Cuban? Would this be very different? The media was totally on the side of giving Elian Gonzalez back.
BECKEL: Well, if they were Cuban, they didn't have to leave, because the law says so.
If I could make a point here, you're right about Harry Reid pulling that bill back. But the fact is, the bill passed, and it has been sat on by the Republicans in the House for very political reasons. So if they want to have a serious discussion and debate, bring the bill out and debate it, amend it and go to conference. They won't do it, because they want an issue.
And the next thing I say is here's the problem with the White House. They give -- they were at their best during their campaign. You can say that the media were in the tank for them, but they were very good campaigners. They've never gotten out of that mode in governing.
And part of that mode during the campaign, you don't let yourself be put in the position where you give them too much information. I think that's part of the problem. You have to make a distinction, and they didn't. Their team came over to the White House and it is sort of the mentality.
TANTAROS: They're still campaigning for immigration reform. Don't you think? Trying to make the case.
BECKEL: Probably because if they would get off their asses and do something about it, we'd be better off.
TANTAROS: Bob, it was such a bipartisan effort in the Senate to get this thing done. How can you say that?
BECKEL: So why didn't the House deal with it?
TANTAROS: Because it was a crappy bill. Filled with a bunch of nonsense. And exactly the opposite of securing the border.
BECKEL: You have a whole lot -- you have two houses. You have one that tries to fix the other one.
TANTAROS: Maybe you should tell the president that. He doesn't ...
BECKEL: Maybe you should take John Boehner and the rest of them, get out of the bars and get back to...
TANTAROS: He doesn't seem to think that Congress is there to serve...
BECKEL: How funny you use that analogy, get out of the bars. President Obama spent his whole week in a bar.
One of those IRS e-mails that Lois Lerner was hoping Congress wouldn't find. It's turned up, and we have our hands on it. Lerner's stunning admission, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Thousands of IRS e-mails are M.I.A., but a House committee has found one interesting one from the central figure in its investigation. It's from Lois Lerner. Remember her? She was warning her colleagues last year to be careful about what they put in e-mails.
Lerner wrote, quote, "We have had several occasions where Congress has asked for e-mails, and there has been an electronic search for responses to e-mails, so we need to be cautious about what we say in e-mails."
So while she pleads the fifth and the media pretends the right is crazy to think there was calculated effort to abuse the rights of conservative citizens, we are slowly getting a better understanding of what Lerner was up to.
And today a federal judge ordered the IRS to explain under oath how it lost all those e-mails and set a deadline of August 10 for them to respond. The hearing was held as a part of a lawsuit by Judicial Watch.
Greg, isn't it sort of comforting when your paranoia is confirmed?
GUTFELD: You know -- you know what's hilarious, is for the past how I don't know how many months now we've been talking about smoking guns on this show. There are officially now more smoking guns here than at the battle of Gettysburg. And still it's not enough to qualify as a scandal.
It was Lerner's shot at the Tea Partier to immediately go, "Is that lead biodegradable?" And then they would move on. It's amazing. Corruption is perfectly OK if it's directed against the conservative and it matches the assumptions of the media.
PERINO: There's a little bit of media bias, Eric, I noticed yesterday in The New York Times article in reporting on this story, which they did report on, but in order to introduce the e-mail, it says, the Republicans say that she said this. No, she said that. It's in the e-mail. They have to make it partisan.
BOLLING: What does she say? "We have to be careful what we put in e- mails?" Did it have the semicolon and the smile?
PERINO: The wink?
BOLLING: The wink. Careful what we say. Basically, look, I don't know, as my wife said on the way -- this morning on the way to the train station, that woman should be in jail. And I agree with her 100 percent, she should be in jail. As soon as she stops taking the fifth, maybe we'll find out why; we can put her behind bars.
PERINO: Bob, her lawyer today had to explain why he said one thing to Politico a month ago and another thing today. A month ago he said that she had no -- she didn't know about having to print out records. She didn't understand the law, which cannot be true because you've got to sign that document when you get your confirmation. Do you think that she's going to actually end up having to testify, because there's so many inconsistencies?
BECKEL: Yes, she should be. I mean, listen, the Federal Records Act is very clear. You're right: you do have to sign it, saying you have to preserve e-mails.
This has -- this has gone beyond the accessibility of reason. I mean, she should be in front of a grand jury, not in front of a congressional hearing.
It's clear to me, obviously, that there's been a scandal here. Somebody played with these records. I don't believe it came from the White House, but I think that Lois Lerner decided to cover her butt by saying this. And this is, in some ways, a smoking gun. What it said was, it's as much to her mentality as anything else, is what that was about. And when I read that, I said, this woman is a schemer, and she's figured out a way to cover her ass.
PERINO: And the possible trouble, Andrea, is not just the idea of targeting conservatives, although that would be against the law, but the destruction of evidence, and obstruction of justice is a very different problem.
TANTAROS: Yes. And the first thing I thought was the obstruction of justice and the way that they destroyed the evidence, or potentially destroyed it. It's a huge problem.
But you know, they've been telling us, Dana, there isn't a conspiracy. No conspiracy, no conspiracy. But when you have in writing the IRS chief saying, "Hide things," doesn't that undermine your whole argument?
And if there isn't a reason to keep any secrets or if there's nothing to hide, why do you need to keep secrets? One of the other things that she said was there was a chat, this internal chat that they were using, the Microsoft Chat. And Lois Lerner inquired whether or not the chat from employees internally would be able to be salvaged and reported.
And when someone wrote back and said, "No, it's not," she wrote back, "Perfect." Why would you respond that way if there was nothing to hide?
Very quickly, I think she's in this position because she isn't the typical green-visored, mechanical-pencil-cracking, numbers-crunching kind of gal. She has a history of trying to get Republicans out of office, and that's why she's in that job.
BECKEL: OK. Just one fast; I know you want to go. Why is it that you conservatives always think that everybody's against you?
PERINO: Because we're constantly proven right.
BECKEL: You whine all the time. And let's do a segment on this, will you? Whiners, conservatives, "They wouldn't do it to us, but they do it to them. Meh, meh, meh." You've got to stop whining. No wonder.
GUTFELD: You know what? We'll stop whining when the media does their job. They've abdicated their spines. This is why we have to do it, because the fact is, she should be in jail, like you said. And we are whining. I know that we're whining. We're just pretty much pissed off that these people are targeting people for their beliefs and getting away with it.
BECKEL: Yes, but you always say that "They're good to the liberals; they're bad to us."
PERINO: But we're cheerful. We're so cheerful. Which is lovely.
GUTFELD: It is.
PERINO: Greg, great. All right? We have to move ahead. So ahead, the 2014 Emmy nominations are in. Some of us are unhappy that our favorite shows didn't make the cut. We're going to tell you which ones. And one FOX News star got a nomination. We're going to tell you who, when "The Five" returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKEL: I'm not much of a TV watcher, but one show I make sure not to miss is "Justified," the best TV show ever. I can't get enough of U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens dishing out justice.
Apparently, the idiot Emmy voters didn't agree with me, as the show was shut out from the big categories. Nominations were handed out this morning. And a lot of the favorites of ours around this table didn't make the cut. Dana, which were you upset about?
PERINO: Well, of course, I love "Justified," as well. Nick Searcy, Timothy Olyphant, Walt Goggins, they're fantastic. I also love "Veep." And I don't know. Maybe it didn't -- I don't know why it's not on here. Because it was -- it's a really, really good show.
BECKEL: OK, Greg.
GUTFELD: All right. A couple things that bugged me. Kevin Spacey nominated. He's a ham. John Hamm, nominated, he's spacy. "Silicon Valley" got nominated. I love Mike Judge. It's a great show. It's about Silicon Valley.
Fred Armisen from "Portlandia" got nominated. Love Fred Armisen.
But the thing that was left out that I love, "Drunken [SIC] History." Derek Waters' show, where he has comedians get drunk and then tell actual realistic historical tales. It's the best show.
BOLLING: I watched one of those the other night. I just couldn't get it.
BECKEL: What did you think?
BOLLING: OK. My three favorite shows on television, "House of Cards," got nominated. "Homeland" didn't. "Walking Dead" didn't. I'm upset about that. Watch for "Tyrant" the next time. It's the best series, bar none.
But also, we need to say congratulations to Bill O'Reilly, "Outstanding Television Movie." "Killing Kennedy," which aired on Nat Geo, was nominated for an Emmy.
TANTAROS: Rob Lowe.
BOLLING: What about you?
TANTAROS: That was why he was in a very good mood today.
BECKEL: What upset you about not being on the list? What's not on the list? You know what I mean.
TANTAROS: All the shows on Bravo that I follow intently every single evening. I was very upset. None of the "The Real Housewives" series made it. Or "The Ladies of London."
BECKEL: The "Housewives" series? Like the "Housewives of New Jersey"?
TANTAROS: Look, I like "House of Cards." Eldad Yaron from "O'Reilly" said I need to watch "Scandal," because it's...
BOLLING: "Scandal" is good.
TANTAROS: He said I remind him of Kerri Washington. Don't know. Have to tune into it.
The one show I do like is "The Following" with Kevin Bacon. And that did not get nominated.
BECKEL: Yes. "The Housewives of New Jersey," now you talk about an advertisement for Botox and breast enhancement.
All right. "One More Thing" is up next, and mafia-wise.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing" -- Eric.
BOLLING: OK. So I came across this video. It's probably the coolest thing I've ever, ever seen. I could watch this for hours. Take a look at this. This is Joss "Stig" Ling (ph). He flew a drone through a fireworks display. Watch.
TANTAROS: But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Anyway, so...
BECKEL: Where the hell is the drone?
BOLLING: It's flying. See how the camera panned around? That's why America's great. We innovate; we come up with creative stuff. Josh, great job.
PERINO: How does it not get blown up?
TANTAROS: How does it not get better music?
GUTFELD: Well, you know it. Dana.
PERINO: OK. You know I'm a big fan of pot legalization.
GUTFELD: You are.
PERINO: You know, like I don't care. But this guy cares, because he stood in line. He stayed the night to be the first person in line to buy pot in Washington state. Take a look at him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
MIKE BOYER, FIRST BUYER OF LEGALIZED MARIJUANA: Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: He's a winner.
PERINO: So -- sorry, my I.T. (ph) is not working today. So Mike Boyer (ph) is his name. The thing is, is that while he was the first to buy pot, he was also the first to be fired for buying pot, because his employer is called Labor something -- Labor Ready. They sent him a text message saying, "We saw you on TV, and we have a strict no-drug policy." And then he lost his job.
BECKEL: He was stoned waiting for the stoning (ph).
GUTFELD: They left him high and dry. All right -- Andrea.
TANTAROS: For years you know I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for one of my favorite shows, "The Soup" with Joel McHale, to pick up on some of the absurdity that happens at this table every single day. Well, guess what? It finally happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOEL MCHALE, HOST, "THE SOUP": "The Five" is FOX News's cultural panel show, which explores race relations in the 21st Century.
GUTFELD: What did everybody think of the BET Awards last night? Just go around the table. What did you think of it?
PERINO: I missed it.
MCHALE: Not everyone on "The Five" failed to watch the BET Awards. Host Bob Beckel saw it, sort of.
PERINO: Bob.
BECKEL: I was with a black woman.
GUILFOYLE: Come on, Bob.
MCHALE: "At least she said she was black, and she said she was a woman. I don't know. I don't ask a lot of questions. It's cheaper that way."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Speaking of cheap, though, Joel is a smart guy, but he knew that was the joke. That was the whole point, was I was pointing out that none of us had watched it. And so he actually decided to replay the joke as his own, which is actually kind of cheap, Joel. I expected something better from you.
TANTAROS: OK. Well, I thought it was funny, for the record.
GUTFELD: Yes, but cheap.
Where are we, Bob?
BECKEL: Yes. I came across a story. I have said all along, as bad as Islamist terrorists are, as far as the threat to this country, the Chinese are the single biggest threat to national security of the United States. They have been; they will be. And they can wait. They're very patient. You know what they just did? As usual, we bring them over here, and we teach a bunch of Chinamen -- Chinese people how to do computers. They go back to China, and they hack into us, right?
The Chinese now have hacked into the Office of Management and Budget - - personnel management. And who do they go after? Everybody with a top security clearance. So China... (MAKES RUDE GESTURE)
TANTAROS: Can I just say something real quick? That is going to end up on "The Soup." That's one of those moments. I think that should be on "The Soup." It will be hilarious.
GUTFELD: Oy, vey.
BECKEL: Really, doesn't anybody worry about these people? Billions of them, and all they do is hack into our stuff. They send us cheap toys, all of which got lead in them. They kill kids.
GUTFELD: Oh, my goodness. All right. Should I just end it here? Can we end early?
All right. Banned phrase: "Beggars can't be choosers." I'm banning it not because it's overused but because it's factually wrong. Beggars can be choosers. Anytime you walk down the streets of New York, and they don't like what you give them, they're choosing. The world now, beggars can choose.
That's it, huh?
TANTAROS: Greg, way to depress us.
GUTFELD: I know. Don't forget to set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." We'll be back here tomorrow. "Special Report" is up next.
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