Lawmakers question Secretary Sebelius on ObamaCare failures

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 6, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: This is a FOX News alert: President Obama moments ago, behind closed White House doors, met with a group of very frustrated Democrat senators.

Ed Henry is standing by with the breaking details on that meeting. Don't go anywhere.

But, first, it was a busy day on the Hill today where the woman many see as the face of the ObamaCare failures, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, was taking some heated questions from senators, frustrated senators. Democrats frustrated with the sheer breakdown of ObamaCare from the Web site disaster, to the embarrassing enrollment numbers. And Republicans who warned that ObamaCare was an atomic bomb about to be dropped on America.

Madam Secretary --


KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I am accountable to this committee and to the American public for getting the fixes in place. And we are committed to getting fixed.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: You've been misleading the American people and the president has over and over and over again. And I would much rather you come up and say, yes, we were wrong. Yes, we didn't tell the truth.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: You made a promise to fix a broken system.
You made a promise to insure that all Americans had access to quality, affordable health care. You, Madam Secretary, must make good on that promise.

SEBELIUS: In the last five weeks, access to has been a frustrating experience for far too many of these Americans. It's unacceptable, I am focused on fixing it and I'm accountable.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: You have said America should hold you accountable, which is why today, Madam Secretary, I repeat my request for you to resign.


BOLLING: Resign? We all know that ain't going to happen. Accountability?
Please. The woman still has her job. She's not going anywhere.

People are frustrated, ObamaCare sucks, and seems there's nothing we can do about it. Is there any way out of the mess? We'll bring it around the table.

Greg, any way --

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: By the way, this is the fifth hearing. Officially, we have more hearings than people who've signed up for ObamaCare. Sebelius is actually pretty confident because before this hearing, President Obama said if you like your job, you can keep your job. That made her very feel confident.

Here's the issue about -- by the way, closed doors? Are there any meetings where doors are open? I'm so tired of hearing about behind closed doors --

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Meetings that you have with Bob always need to be with the door open.

GUTFELD: That is true.

But, you know, here's the thing -- when it comes to scandal, President Obama's way more efficient than Bill Clinton. The difference is that Obama screwed millions of people.

BOLLING: We don't know how many Bill Clinton did. Is that the point?

GUTFELD: No, I said it once.

BOLLING: All right.

Ands, any way out of this?

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: I don't think so. Not at this point. The Web site, I think, is the least of their problems because even when they fix the Web site, you have Kathleen Sebelius, and I think this is an underreported story, saying today that HHS has plans to, quote, "re-invite people to sign up."

So, what does that translate to? That translates to them sitting on millions of dollars, which they are. There was one report on how much money they're sitting on to try and advertise to get healthy young people into the system.

And, Eric, because they didn't have the political courage to make that penalty more than the premium, they can run all the ads they want with our money which is going to -- really going to bankrupt us.

I still don't think they're going to have people sign up. So, they have doctor shortage, lack of people enrolling, premiums going through the roof because of adverse selection and the employer mandate which is the biggest issue set to drop in 10 months.

BOLLING: Bob, the question, I'm sitting there waiting, probably an hour and a half hearing, senators like to talk, they like to hear themselves speak. But the question wasn't asked, who made the call to go October 1st knowing very well there was security risks and that the Web site wasn't ready?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: First of all, let me say, I'm sweating a little bit because I went to the New York marathon a day late. I thought it was not, so --

PERINO: Great effort, though.

BECKEL: It was.

Max Baucus, who's the chairman of the Finance Committee, was a client of mine for many years. Max is the kind of guy that's very quiet. He's also the one who wrote this law and he said way back four or five months ago, there's a train wreck coming if you're not careful about the implementation of this.

I've talked to Baucus about it. And he said he doesn't have a problem with the plan itself. He has a problem with the distribution of information.

BOLLING: Well, he also -- he also looked Kathleen Sebelius in the eye and said, Madam Secretary, you're going to get -- you said November 30th, you're going to get done by November 30th, right? And she said, yes.

Were you confident in her testimony?

PERINO: I have never thought they should put a date on it. I think they could have said soon and then tried to define that along the way.

Max Baucus is such a refreshing, mature voice on this issue. It also shows what a Democrat who is not running for reelection in a red state can do.
And that means he can be completely and perfectly honest with them while the rest of the Democrats that we talked about yesterday were saying, oh, the president didn't lie, he didn't lie.

Maybe Ed Henry will have a scoop for us.

But on the Senate meeting today where the Democrat senators came to meet with the president and they were behind closed doors, I'm sure they were very respectful, but they've got to be nervous because some of the election results from last night.

BOLLING: All right. So, very good point. Also, let's ask Ed about that meeting. There was a behind the door closed meeting. I believe 14 Democrat senators in there, very frustrated.

Ed, do you have any more details about that meeting?

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, 15 of them, Eric, and interesting because I've talked to some people who are inside the room and are basically saying that there's deep frustration among these Senate Democrats. They feel like it's beyond the rollout being botched. They feel like they're not getting enough information, and not enough help from the administration in terms of pushing back and explaining this to the American people.

And I think specifically, the next shoe to drop is what kind of a delay is there going to be in the enrollment deadline. There were some Democrats who came out of this pretty fierce. You have Mark Udall of Colorado for example, who is a stalwart ally of this president, he's not a critic. And he put out a blistering statement that said they've got to do more with the privacy safeguards that you mentioned, people's Social Security information, et cetera.

But he also said he wants the enrollment deadline pushed beyond the end of March 2014. He didn't specify how far, but the other thing is Mark Begich of Alaska, another Democrat, just told us that he's been screaming at the White House, his words, yelling at them in recent days even before this meeting to do a better job of figuring out the Web site, giving people more confidence, and in fact, he used the phrase crisis in confidence, a Democrat, Mark Begich of Alaska, who's up for reelection said there's a crisis in confidence right now as to whether or not the administration can get this Web site fixed.

And, look, the other thing to think about is if you push that enrollment deadline beyond March of 2014, what are you going to do? Three months, six months, you might be pushing it right up against the '24 election and make the health care law in even more of a referendum in that election and make it an even bigger issue than maybe Democrats want.

PERINO: Ed, it's Dana. So, there's a chorus of this line that there's a crisis of confidence which really comes down to competence. And what they're -- it's just one step below, a millimeter below saying incompetent.

Here's the thing I'm concerned about -- for my friends, fellow colleagues in the communications office -- this is not a communications problem. So, if the senators come and complaining to the president, we need you to give more speeches, do they really think that that's going to help?

HENRY: Well, I think they were going beyond speeches. My understanding, from Mark Begich for example, he was telling the president and -- by the way, we should point out, it was a two-hour meeting. That's a pretty long meeting. You've been inside the White House. It's not some half hour drive by. But also the vice president was there, also Denis McDonough, the White House chief of staff, and also interesting, Jeffrey Zients, who is the guru in charge of fixing this Web site.

And I'm told that Mark Begich said that he's getting calls from constituents beyond communications who were saying, I can't get on the Web site. I just can't get on and enroll, I want to enroll, I like the law, I want to make it work.

So, these are Democrats saying they don't want to repeal the law like Republicans do, they want to fix it. They want to mend it, if you will.

And so, I was even told that Mark Begich may have said that he tried to get on the Web site, and couldn't.

BECKEL: Hey, Ed, how many of those are up for reelection next year?

HENRY: All of them.

BECKEL: That's what I thought.

HENRY: All of them except Michael Bennet of Colorado who, as you know, was a DSCC chairman, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

BECKEL: Now --

HENRY: So, yes, their hides are on the line and that's why they're here.

BECKEL: If you look at the returns from Virginia, the closing that happened in the last four or five days, if you look at the counties, the red counties are redder and that clearly was, I think, motivated by ObamaCare, it certainly was with Cuccinelli. But -- and also, Terry became
-- Terry McAuliffe became an issue unto himself. There's no question that impacted in the race.

HENRY: Well, Cuccinelli, of course, was somebody who as attorney general in the state of Virginia, has been against the president's health care law from the beginning and so, he tried to make that an issue at the end. That helped him close double digit gap. He still lost, the Republican lost, but it got closer.

And I think even more telling than that is the fact that think about when the president went there Sunday for a rally to help Democrat Terry McAuliffe, he never mentioned his own health care law.

So, if the president in the closing hours wanted to help Terry McAuliffe who, by the way, was an unabashed supporter of, quote-unquote, "ObamaCare", he was supportive of it. The president himself didn't give it a big push.
He understands that in these close races, this health care law is unpopular right now.

TANTAROS: Hey, Ed, it's Andrea. We know that the Web site is just a small problem when you look at the policy side of this bill. Has the White House at all indicated they're willing to budge on the policy side or make any adjustments besides the delay, for example, doing away with the penalty for a short-term, or maybe extending the individual mandate?

And second part of that, Ed, have Republicans expressed any interest in maybe now with some Democratic support trying to push through some policy changes with bipartisan effort?

HENRY: Well, on the latter half, of course Republicans want to put this together. They now have some bipartisanship to change the law. In terms of the White House, we should say in fairness, the president and Jay Carney at the podium behind me have said in many times in recent weeks, that they're willing to sit down and make what they call reasonable changes to the health care law.

But in practice, that's sort of in theory, but in practice, we press Jay Carney on a bill, for example, that Mary Landrieu was asked about yesterday, who wants to delay those fines, as you asked. And Jay Carney was sort of squishy on whether or not they support it. So, I think in theory, they're saying they work with Republicans to change the law, but specifically, they have not gotten behind any of these various bills out there, pushing for changes.

Bottom line here is that when you've got Democrats like Mary Landrieu and Mark Begich of Alaska saying we've got to change this, there's going to be some sort of pushback on that deadline beyond the end of March 2014. It's sort of just untenable because these Democrats who are facing the voters in 2014. By the way, the president doesn't face the voters again, but they do. They are pressuring this White House and that's why this meeting came together today. So, that's likely to force a change here.

GUTFELD: Ed, is there any truth to the rumor that they were handing out Imodium to the incumbent because ObamaCare was scaring the crap out of them?


HENRY: I will check that out. I actually didn't hear that, Greg. I'm not really sure how to respond.

GUTFELD: That's a good answer.

BECKEL: Ed, let me ask you a question, Republicans gave them absolutely no votes in the United States House. None. Why do they think for a minute that these guys are going to do anything but continue to obstruct?

HENRY: Well, look, the Republicans have made clear from day one of this administration five years ago that they were going to try to block everything the president does. So, they know that inside this White House and why do you think they push forward with the October 1st rollout? They knew a week before when there was some problems, the administration got some heads up, that the tests were not working out, that if they had pulled back and said we're not ready for prime time, the Republicans would've pounced on that and had some ammunition to slow or stop this law.

That's why Republicans criticizing this law is not new and it's not going to change this president's mind. That's why this meeting today is so important. Fifteen Senate Democrats whose political hides are on the line, a year from now, pressing this president to make changes, that could make a difference.

Republicans screaming at him is not. But Democrats, in the words of Mark Begich, saying he's been yelling at them to fix this, that's more likely to have an impact.

BECKEL: Republicans absolutely have no interest in doing this.

BOLLING: Let me get Dana in here really quick before we lose Ed.

PERINO: All right. Ed, I just wanted -- first of all, I wanted to compliment you when we teased your name at the beginning, when Eric mentioned your name, and you did that little pop-up. It was a very well done -- and showed you have a lot of energy and you bring it to the show and we appreciate that.

HENRY: Trying to bring the pep, yes.

PERINO: Is there any evidence that the White House is concerned about the bigger issues that are coming? Not just the Web site issue, but the small group market that is starting to make a noise to say they're going to lose lots of plans in October of 2014, people that react on December 1st. Are they planning ahead for the next big problems they're about to have?

HENRY: Yes. They tell us that behind the scenes they're working 24/7 to not just deal with the Web site but deal with other issues popping up.
But, look, I think what's interesting. You put a finger on a very important point, which is that the president as the Web site was failing in the early days, remember, came out in the Rose Garden and said, look, this is not just the Web site, guys. That's just a small part of this. The bigger thing is actually implementing the law on a substantive standpoint.

But I think Republicans and now some moderate Democrats up for election are looking at it and saying the substance of this law may also blow up in the White House's face. So, the more the White House pushes to implement this, you get the cancellation letters, you get some people with premium spikes, et cetera. That may end up being more politically painful for this White House.

We should also note, though, that they still believe inside the White House from the president on down, that while they're going to get through these bumps and that, in the end, you're going to have millions of people who don't have insurance now will have insurance and while we're focusing on the people whose premiums are going to go up, there are going to be other people whose premiums come down and have better health care in the end.

So, some of that is going to balance out. But right now, it's hard to see them getting beyond this big, big hole they have where even Democrats now are mad at them.

BOLLING: Ed, we're going to have to leave it there. But I got to tell you, it doesn't matter what they want or what they're trying, or Jeffrey Zients tries to push, it doesn't really matter because come, I don't know, mid-November, we're going to find out how many there are and that's going to be a big day. We'll bring it back for that day for sure.

HENRY: We're waiting for it.

BOLLING: Ed Henry, inside the briefing room at the White House -- thanks, Ed.

Up next, last night's blue state blowout for Chris Christie has people wondering just how big Chris Christie really is.

Before we go, check out our Facebook page at



GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: So tonight, first and foremost, I want to say thank you, New Jersey, for making me the luckiest guy in the world.



PERINO: It was a blowout for Chris Christie who just won another four years as governor of New Jersey. And with 60 percent of the vote in his solid blue state, the 2016 talk exploded overnight especially after this.


CHRISTIE: The people of New Jersey four years ago were downhearted and dispirited. They didn't believe the government could work for them anymore. Four years later, we stand here tonight showing that it is possible to put doing your job first, to put working together first, to fight for what you believe in yet still standby your principles and get something done for the people who elected you.

I know that if we can do this in Trenton, New Jersey, maybe the folks in Washington, D.C. should tune in their TVs right now. See how it's done.


PERINO: That old-fashioned reference tuning in. You don't have to tune in anymore, it's all digital, Governor. Just kidding.

Congratulations to Governor Chris Christie.

Greg, no surprises in the New Jersey governor's race.

GUTFELD: No, but I think the rollout caused the blowout. If there was no chance with the ObamaCare is the hobo on the subway covered in poop, and no one wants to be touched by him. And that helped Christie and got the race in Virginia pretty close.

But I think what Christie's talking about which I think is important is that we've replaced 50 states with 50 identities. This country's gotten very decisive over who you are instead of what you do. We used to be Americans, now we're black, white, gay, straight, Hispanic, whatever.

Christie, what he's trying to say -- at least to me, is that it's time for unification, not divisiveness. And I think he's trying to say that he can do that.

PERINO: You are a New Jersey resident, Eric, do you think he can do that?

BOLLING: You know, listen, he did well. He got a 60 percent or 61 percent number in a blue state. Let's not forget, I think a poll went out right after that said Chris Christie or Hillary Clinton in 2016, and Hillary Clinton beat Chris Christie by six full points.

Chris Christie talks one game but plays another game. He's said he's very much conservative. He actually tried to say yesterday he was in the Tea Party world. Jake Tapper asked him if he was a Tea Party, and he kind of said, yes, I feel like I'm one of them.

But he's really not. I mean, he's been against a lot -- in favor of a lot more gun control in New Jersey, now he's walking that back.

He also claims to have lowered taxes in the state. I live in the state, I'll tell you, Chris, you haven't lowered my taxes. I don't know whose you have lowered, you haven't lowered mine. Income taxes are level of when you came in. And my property taxes are skyrocketing under you.

So, he's talking one game, I don't know, is that enough to unite the party?
Not -- I doubt it.

PERINO: How dangerous is it, Andrea, for immediately following this race?
He's got a job to do as governor. Four years to be governor.

But even today you saw a director named in New Hampshire to, I guess, coordinate on behalf of Governor Chris Christie.

TANTAROS: I don't think he should waste any time. Hillary Clinton's not wasting any time.

But I do think he needs to step back and regroup before he goes out hard and starting campaigning. So he can do things behind the scenes.

But he does have some work to do. Look, fiscally he stood up to the unions, which I think was a very important conversation that should happen across this country, right? Private sector versus public sector, a very gutsy decision and that's how he won initially.

So, he showed some leadership there. He also was able to show leadership after Hurricane Sandy, which helped him. I mean, he stepped up and helped that state.

However, he did do some things, gay immersion, conversation, global warming, to have conservatives very upset with him. And, again, Ronald Reagan was very -- about unification. And I do think that Chris Christie has to adjust his attitude as far as not shooting inside the tent, if he has any hope.

Because we saw what happened when the last candidate, Rudy Giuliani, I believe, tried to ignore those conservative states like Iowa and South Carolina and go right to Florida, didn't work very well.

PERINO: Well, I want to get to the Virginia governor's race before we get out of here. Do you want to make any -- do you think Governor Chris Christie is well-positioned to start flying to Des Moines, Iowa?

BECKEL: Well, he is. It's a caucus state. It's very, very conservative.
And if anybody believes he didn't take the heat and hit the Tea Party is out of their minds. He's been making this point over and over again. He's going to try to do this without the Tea Party and I think he wants to do it.

BOLLING: And libertarians.

BECKEL: And libertarians.

PERINO: And libertarians.

And we're going to get to that next because the other governor's race we thought was going to be more of a blowout turned out to come right down to the wire. It was in Virginia.

Here's Ken Cuccinelli who at the end of the night lost the race.


KEN CUCCINELLI (R), VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Despite being outspent by an unprecedented $16 million, this race came down to the wire because of ObamaCare. That message will go out across America tonight.


PERINO: So, Eric, most people, the conventional wisdom was he was going to lose big. I actually think that the McAuliffe team, Governor Terry McAuliffe -- Governor-elect Terry McAuliffe their team sweat around the
7:30 hour when Fairfax County came in, he was able to pull it off.

BOLLING: I think maybe a couple of weeks ago he was up by 14 or so and that narrowed it down to late in the night before McAuliffe regained that northern to Fairfax, Virginia, area, where all those votes came in, which is a suburb of D.C.

The point is, though, there's a libertarian candidate that got 6.6 percent of the vote and if you dig deeper, A, the guy wasn't very -- isn't very libertarian, number one. And number two, he was financed a big portion of his financing came from a very big Obama bungler, Democrat supporter from Texas no less.

So, is this the game the Democrats are going to start to play? They're going to try to divide the party by backing a third party candidate libertarian party candidate and try to liquidate some -- marginalize some of the Republican vote? Probably. But the Republicans better see it coming.

BECKEL: Absolutely no evidence of that. Let me put it this way.

BOLLING: Of what?

BECKEL: Of Texas Democrats fronted this guy.

BOLLING: No, you have to show where your money comes from. This guy put a lot of money into the libertarian candidate.

BECKEL: Let me ask you a question. The libertarian -- I mean, the Tea Party people opted for a convention in Virginia which is sort of old hat.
They didn't want to go to a primary which would've put the lieutenant governor in with the Republican nomination but for moderate conservative.
He would've beaten McAuliffe.

This is another example of the Tea Party once again costing the Republicans a seat.

PERINO: Do you disagree?

TANTAROS: I disagree. I think that there's a couple of lessons from Virginia. I rarely quote Ed Koch ever, but the voters have spoken and now they must be punished in the state of Virginia.

One thing I think really affected him was the RNC under Michael Steele spent $9 million to get Bob McDonnell, the former governor, elected. This time around, they only spent $3 million. They have some explaining to do on why they didn't invest resources there.

Number two, Republicans and focusing on the social issues, Dana, you've seen the exit polling. Women, he lost women big. Democrats set the same playbook that President Obama did in the presidential election, convince women to think that Cuccinelli was a right wing nut.

And instead, he should have been focusing on the economic issues, ObamaCare much sooner. I believe, Dana, if the shutdown wouldn't have happened, if the Republicans had gotten together, I think he would be governor today and that's why I think Republicans need to wake up because strategy matters.

PERINO: Let me ask Greg about that because Cuccinelli and Christie have on paper the same positions on a lot of those social issues. Christie wins by
60 percent, wins women, minorities, he did well and Cuccinelli doesn't.
How does that happen?

GUTFELD: Purity is great for the ego, but you've got to win first and then you can fight. I think if you have that backwards, you're going to lose.

There's one race we haven't talked about New York City mayor was a blowout.
Bill de Blasio, this guy makes Fidel Castro look like John Birch. And I believe it's going to be a first -- a one-termer only because the New Yorkers are going to wake up. This guy's so red, he's like a walking lobster.

TANTAROS: He makes Obama look conservative.

PERINO: OK. Bob, last point?

BECKEL: Very brief. The reason the Republican National Committee did not put money into this race is their bundlers were not willing to put money in a Tea Party race.

PERINO: A lot of stuff to chew on in that.

Next, Bill Cosby wants a major cultural shift in society and asking college students to help make it happen. You're going to hear from him when "The Five" returns.


GUTFELD: Last night, Bill Cosby spoke to the students at Tuskegee University. There, he saluted hard work and condemned lax morality.


BILL COSBY: Vulgarity is not our culture. It never has been our culture.
Hard work has been our culture.


GUTFELD: Cosby says there needs to be a shift in society where young people learn to respect others. He got a standing ovation, which is not uplifting, for we live in a time where that message is refreshing because the other messages on campuses suck.

Right now, moral decay is disguised as empowerment, degradation is destiny.
So, when Cosby talks, it's like tuning into some forgotten a.m. radio station from Pluto.

At an Oregon college, taxpayers just paid 24 grand for a speech by a sex columnist, it was sold out because it was free and students got class credit. Meanwhile, at Harvard sex week, they ran a course on how you lose your virginity, which damns (ph), quote, "our sex crazed society that cherishes this so-called precious gift."

Imagine talking to students about sex and thinking you're edgy. You're as edgy as a hula-hoop. On campus, sex talk has replaced Ramen noodles as a diet staple. It's not education, it's air. It's part of the slop every day, along with the usual anti-West crud spewing from fudgy professors.
So, yes, Cosby knows what needs to be heard, values are valuable and there's no great achievement in taking off your pants. Anyone can do it.
Ask the police officers who drove me home last night.

Andrea, I expect this from Bill Cosby, but wouldn't the impact be greater if it was from a celebrity a third his age? Like instead, you know, maybe it would be great to see, I don't know, anybody, Kanye West, anybody do this.

TANTAROS: Anybody. And I think Bill Cosby gets attention because every time he speaks, he gets criticized because he's directly addressing the black community.

But this is a message for any community. White, Hispanic, it's a great message. The problem is, most people don't want to work. It's easier nowadays for young people to sit on the couch and as you point, take off their pants, it's being pushed on college campuses and the taxpayers are subsidizing it, which again I think is the winning issue for Republicans, but they missed the mark.

One thing he did, Greg, I really liked is this time around too, he spoke to women specifically and, again, black, white, Hispanic, if women are going to allow men not to step up and allow them to sexualize them, then men are going to continue to do it. And he spoke directly to women about keeping your clothes on and, you're right, there's a lack of younger commentators, but I think his message was spot on.

GUTFELD: Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: I think I miss "The Cosby Show" so much. But everybody wants Huxtable in their lives. You want somebody in your life that's a good guiding force.

GUTFELD: You miss the sweaters, is what you missed.

PERINO: It was a great show. I love the message and I hope more people listen to it.

BOLLING: May be a great show, may be a great guy now, because I'm very sure, in fact, I'm positive there are a couple of sexual harassment lawsuits against Mr. Cosby, back in the day when he was in his -- I guess mid or late '50s or so. Some young actresses who he hit on very aggressively and they had to sue him and some --

PERINO: How do you know that wasn't a Herman Cain situation?

BOLLING: I don't. I guess I don't. But I'm not sure Herman Cain's out making -- doing speeches like that.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: About hard work?

BOLLING: No, about -- keeping it in your pants, you know.

BECKEL: This message, Cosby's been doing this for a long time, the last 10 or 15 years, he's been speaking out about education. I, for the life of me, do not know why Reverend Sharpton and Jesse Jackson don't pick up on a message like this.

GUTFELD: Why don't they?

BECKEL: I don't know. I'm flabbergasted by it.

TANTAROS: Because they get a check from saying, the converse.


TANTAROS: That's why.

GUTFELD: Those are great shoes.

All right. Next, did the Miami Dolphins encourage Richie Incognito to bully his teammate? Andrea has the details.

Plus, one of our reporters just caught with the suspended player. We have the tape. Wouldn't it be funny if we didn't have the tape?

Anyway, a new video of Incognito has surfaced that you're going to want to see. Look, he's great with a rake -- when "The Five" returns.


TANTAROS: NFL player Richie Incognito recently suspended for bullying teammate Jonathan Martin with insults that reportedly included racial slurs. In an ironic turn, a new video shows Incognito appearing in a Miami Dolphin's PSA requesting a different code of behavior from fans.


RICHIE INCOGNITO, NFL PLAYER: Hi, I'm Richie Incognito. On the field, players have called me overly aggressive. While off the field and on the croquet lawn, I'm quite civilized. While at our stadium today, we greatly appreciate you guys being loud and proud for the Dolphins, but please be respectful and civilized and be sure to follow the fan code of conduct.

Thank you for following our fan code of conduct. Anything less would be uncivilized.


TANTAROS: Uncivilized?


TANTAROS: He's not wearing that white cardigan anymore, huh?

Well, local reporter in Florida caught up with Incognito and asked him about the controversy.


REPORTER: What do you have to say about the storm you're in?

INCOGNITO: You know what, I'm just trying to weather the storm right now and this will pass.

REPORTER: There's an allegation that you left these voice mails on Jonathan Martin's voice mail. What do you have to say about those?

INCOGNITO: No comment right now. We're going to weather the storm and that's it.


TANTAROS: But the question is can he weather the storm? Bob, he says he's going to try to hang in there. A lot of NFL commentators say there's no way that he's going to be able to hang in there. The Commissioner Roger Goodell has appointed a special investigator to look into this as part of a bigger theme in the NFL.

Look, you've played football. They love to self-police in the locker rooms. At what point is it bullying and hazing of, say, a rookie who came on, made a lot of money, which is what they do in the NFL, and what point does it become a problem?

BECKEL: I'll tell you where it's a problem. There's a new piece of information about this that sort of went by which is that the coaches ask him to toughen up Martin. I don't know who the coaches were. Nobody seems to be able to put their names to it.

That's one of the things you've do got to be careful about, when the coach says toughen the guy up, that leaves pretty much latitude to do what he wants to do.

BOLLING: I was on record, I think, earlier in the week saying Richie Incognito is wrong doing this. When coach tells you to toughen up a kid, you do what the coach tells you to.

So, what's going on is, even if he took it too far, this is on the Dolphins and this is on the coaching staff right now. So, my assessment is a lot of that stuff goes on all the time. Once it goes public, you have to do something. So, the spotlight was on Incognito. If he was told to do it, I would tell you. Coaches heads are going to roll. Richie Incognito will be back in the starting lineup pretty darn soon.

TANTAROS: There is, though, a culture of intimidation in football. Dana, I believe they have a collective bargaining agreement so if Martin wanted to sue, I guess he could bring it under some kind of grievance proceeding.
But there are actually some Miami dolphins players who are angry not at Incognito, but angry at Martin for taking this outside of the locker room because he broke that --

PERINO: And because it could cost them money and it's embarrassing and the Dolphins are embarrassed in front of the world.

GUTFELD: Dolphins can't be embarrassed.

PERINO: They have feelings too, Greg. It's a strange development over the past several years. People in leadership seem to be clueless. They seem to not to know anything. Remember when you were in class and somebody threw a spit ball and the guy who threw the spit ball had to raise his hand and stand up so that the whole class wouldn't be punished?

Why didn't this coaching staff -- who was on the coaching staff with no honor and dignity to stand up and say, OK, I'm the one that has to toughen him up. I shouldn't have done that. And then he resigns and then the Dolphin players don't have to be mad at anybody anymore.

TANTAROS: Greg, I think this happens, though, more in locker rooms that people think.

You heard about the Philadelphia Eagles. They were using the N-word.
There was controversy there. They pushed players around. They hazed. It looks like Goodell's going to crack down on this.

But isn't this part of a larger culture of corruption and cover-up? Dana mentioned, why don't people speak up? Like Penn State, what level did they know about it and don't speak up because they condone the behavior.

GUTFELD: Well, a lot of my own personal research has been quite shocking and I'd like to talk about it but not here because it can disgust you. But he should change his name or wear a disguise so Incognito could be more incognito.

I love how he says he's weathering the storm. It's a storm he created.
It's like an Obama voter complaining about ObamaCare.

BECKEL: Just very briefly, Jack Nicholson did a movie which he said he ordered code red on guys that got killed, and he said you can't handle the truth and I don't think the Miami coach can handle the truth.


BOLLING: Here's what's going to happen, they're going to lean on Philbin because he's the head coach. He shot the spit ball, whoever shot the spit ball told Incognito to lean on J-Mart, he'll get fired --

PERINO: They can move on.

BOLLING: They can move on.

GUTFELD: Get rid of the dolphins, not the team, just the animal --

PERINO: That's racist.

TANTAROS: Yes, that is.

BECKEL: It is racist.

TANTAROS: You quoted Nicholson?


TANTAROS: It's like "A Few Good Men" without the murder.

All right. Coming up, believe it or not, it's one of the fastest growing sports in America: child cage fighting. Is it a real sport or is it child abuse? We will discuss that directly ahead.


BECKEL: Child cage fighting is a growing sport in America. There 3 million kids as young as 5 are duking it out while adults standby and watch and it's 100 percent legal. They're punching, kicking and doing chokeholds on one another. A lot of critics call it barbaric, but supporters say it encourages self discipline, fair play and exercise.

I'll hold back my view about this. But go ahead, Eric.

BOLLING: I'm shocked when I read 3 million, their estimate. I hope the estimates are right. It's an outrage if it is. As young as 5, little boys crying because they're getting beat with gloves. I'm not sure there's a standard weight glove. They're getting hit. They're getting hurt.

Look, kids' bones are still growing. Their cartilage is still growing.
Maybe at 14, 15 years old, you open it up. But prior to that, I'm concerned.

I'm also concerned on the girls side, the Honey Boo Boos if you watch the tiaras and toddlers and all that, it's just as much abusive to a little girl as this probably is to some of the little boys.

BECKEL: Dana, you probably don't know this, but this is a take-off on the professional cage fighting --

PERINO: I know, Brian Kilmeade was one of the first announcers for that thing.

GUTFELD: He beats up children.

PERINO: Yes, that's true. He was.

I don't understand this. I don't understand why people would think this is a good way to raise children. Books are great.

GUTFELD: What are you talking about?

This is fantastic for kids. The only thing missing is betting. If you're not betting on them, what's the point?

I am concerned about safety because if you're in the audience, I don't want to get hit in the face with a pacifier. I just don't need that.

Look, coming out against this is too easy, people. It's just too easy.
Yes, we don't want to see this happening --

PERINO: Yes, I'm for it.

GUTFELD: That's what I'm saying. You got to make this story interesting.

BECKEL: Are you for it, Andrea?

TANTAROS: I have front-row tickets Saturday night. I cannot wait. My bet is on Tiny Tim. He's only 6 years old.

Of course, it's deeply disturbing. But I'm more disturbed by the parents who somehow think this is a good idea. What goes through a parent's brain that would make them say, yes, I want to train my little kid to kick the crap out of another little kid and make money off of it.

GUTFELD: Maybe these kids are outside causing problems and they're trying
to get them involved --


BECKEL: These kids are kicking. They're knocking people down, chokeholds.
They turned their arms back around. They punch at them. It is the most barbaric sport I've seen at this and the professional level.

It ought to be banned. I know a lot of you out there like that crap, but it is very, very dangerous and somebody's going to die if it's not a kid, it's going to be an older guy.

BOLLING: Maybe you're not suggesting banning MMA?

BECKEL: Yes, I am.

GUTFELD: The whole thing?

BOLLING: I would push back on that hard.

GUTFELD: I'd say you don't let kids do it, but, you know, adults --

PERINO: You can be on your parents' health insurance until they're 26.

GUTFELD: Are you going to say that to everything?


BOLLING: "One More Thing" is up next.


BOLLING: All righty. Time for "One More Thing," I'm going to kick it off.

Last night, Jon Stewart took another cheap shot at me. Johnny and his team of creative producers selectively edited two sound bites I made regarding two completely different topics. And by the way, those were almost three years apart.

So, Jon, you and your crew of misinformation producers, usually reserved for the likes of Jay Carney and President O. I'd love to set the record straight at some point.

But maybe Jay Carney, if he has a tough day, he goes off the deep end, maybe you have a future at the White House.

All right. That's it. I'm done there.

Ands, you're up.

TANTAROS: Billy Graham who's turning 95 this month decided to do one of his final specials. And the FOX News Channel has decided to air tomorrow evening at 10:00 p.m. with Sean Hannity, uninterrupted Billy Graham delivering one of his final messages.

Now, of course, he's been a pastor to 12 presidents, kings and queens, listen to Billy Graham weigh in on this last chapter.


BILLY GRAHAM: I began preaching so many years ago because (INAUDIBLE)

Come to the cross! The gospel is for everyone.

God has done this.

Our country is in great need of a spiritual awakening.



BECKEL: I was going to say, I'm a friend of Franklin Graham, his son who has taken his ministry, who used to be a meth addict and has cleaned himself up.

TANTAROS: Yes, this is tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. with "HANNITY". And you can catch Dana and I later on "HANNITY".

PERINO: I want to give a shout-out to a fan, to Brian Kilmeade, he has latest book. It is called "George Washington: Secret Six." I've read most of this --

GUTFELD: Sex secrets?


TANTAROS: Take off your wig.

GUTFELD: You're watching sex secrets?

PERINO: However, if it was about sex secrets, it would straight to the top of the bestseller.

"George Washington: Secret Six", it's amazing. If you are interested in spying and what's going on now, how they used to do it back in the George Washington days, and even today, there's a tying at the end -- highly recommend the book.

TANTAROS: What's sex secret he would give besides like take your wig off.

GUTFELD: Bob just said.


GUTFELD: All right. That's enough. You sick people.

It's time for "I hate these people"!

All right, 18th floor, there's a microwave in the kitchen. There are people that sit around that microwave. You got lunch. You want to reheat yesterday's salmon with the broccoli.

Do you understand that you stink the hallway up? Do you understand what that does to other co-workers? Do you understand just because you can have that doesn't mean we have to stink up every place?

I hate you!


BOLLING: Well done. You're up, brother.

BECKEL: Turkey's always been considered to be the country that bridges Asia and Europe. And Tiger Woods was asked to hit a ball across from Asia into Europe. And, boom, he did. Slowed down traffic for I don't know how long. But only Tiger could do that. Do you think he did that for nothing?

TANTAROS: Speaking of turkeys.

BOLLING: How much?

BECKEL: Millions, I assume. $3 million?

BOLLING: We're going to leave with that.

That's it for us on "The Five". Thanks for watching.

PERINO: Oh my God. Did that happen?

BOLLING: See you tomorrow, everybody.

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