Government shutdown winners and losers

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 17, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and she once dated Raggedy Andy. It's Dana Perino.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City, I'm told.


GUTFELD: So, the standoff is over. Who won? Who lost? Who cares?

The media will say the president, of course. But what do you expect? He's their Bieber.

When a president's victory is a nation's loss, that kind of sucks. When the good news is we're more in debt, I'll take the bad.

I wish the standoff never ended, you know why? Because now, Obama can get back to work. That's a threat. But in time, we will go through it again. D.C.'s junkie mentally is America's hair shirt.

And the can that keeps getting kicked down the road, that can is us. Our American cans just got punted all over the place. I'd show you the bruises but this is a family show.

We still have $17 trillion in debt and a president who mocked us for caring. Yes, with the media firmly up his own can, Obama portrayed the debt debate as injustice itself. He insulted Americans by insulting Congress who represents Americans. If he wants our money, he has to go through them. But, instead, he cultivated fear to generate political leverage, unleashing punitive actions during a quasi-shutdown.

But the shutdown never was shutdown. Of 10 port-a-potties available, only one or two for business, making his rhetoric for crap. And so, Obama's definition of compromise is really shut up and hand over your wallet.

My suggestion to the right: next time there is no next time. Make the ceiling permanent and refuse to hand over our wallets. It might be a losing battle, but only if you blink. So, remove your eyelids first.

So, last night Obama was asked if this will happen again. Let's roll that.


REPORTER: Mr. President, isn't this going to happen all over again in a few months?



GUTFELD: That was my favorite speech he's ever made.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Best sound bite.

GUTFELD: Here's the thing, Andrea. Can we save all of our talking points for next February?


GUTFELD: This is going to happen again.

TANTAROS: Yes, put them in a drawer, Greg, and on your Microsoft Outlook just 13 weeks from now. You can use that again.


TANTAROS: The president last night stood in front of the American people and said we can't govern crisis to crisis. And now, the cloud of uncertainty is removed. How?

I don't see what anyone got from this. If he has his wish, we will govern crisis to crisis, because that's exactly how he is perceived he wins, right?


TANTAROS: But it is embarrassing for the country. I mean, if you're another country, how do you take us seriously when you watch what just went on last couple of weeks and knowing it's going to happen again in just 13 weeks?


Bob, you're grinning. My feeling is --

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I've been trying to be held back on this. There's one question of who got whooped, the Republicans got their whooped -- as simple as that. But if you think there's --


ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Anyway, can we just put out that you're wearing cowboy boots and probably why you're talking like that?

BECKEL: No, but I'll tell you, two things have come out of it. First of all, Claire McCaskill -- who ran for vice president?

PERINO: Paul Ryan.

BECKEL: Paul Ryan, met for breakfast this morning. They're starting to work.

I have a sneaky suspicion. One thing is for sure not going to happen. The Democrats are not going to be dumb enough to use the debt ceiling as leverage. That's over it.

The question is, whether they get an agreement on the budget this time call me, you know, crazy, but I think this time, they're going to get it.

GUTFELD: Eric, do the Democrats know now they can win at a game of chicken?

BOLLING: Well, they won because the Republicans made it about ObamaCare and it's a law. It's already done. They didn't have the votes to overturn it. They made it about that and probably shouldn't have done that.

But going forward, I agree with Bob, I think there's still cards in their hand that they can play. You can have a debt ceiling and you're going to have to continually fund the government until you get a budget that both sides agree on.

President Obama is responsible for $7 trillion of $17 trillion in debt. That's all the presidents from George Washington up until George Bush. I mean, insane. Remember, it was unpatriotic and national threat and all that when he wasn't president. But now, he's breathing a sigh of relief that he's got his new debt ceiling.

And as far as the deficit goes, he's the one who jacked up the deficit four times from the Bush level, all the way up to $1.4 trillion. Now, Bob is going to say part of that was Bush. Maybe. But he kept it for three years. And he brings it from $1.4 trillion to $700 billion, which is still way above Bush levels.

I don't know how this man can say I've cut the deficit. So, here's the point. The point is, we have fiscal problems, we have fiscal mayhem on the horizon. You better fix it because we haven't fixed anything. All we did was buy a few more months and do the same exact -- we've going to address the same problems that we have right now.

GUTFELD: Yes. Dana, if there were a game show for Republican, would it be called no deal or no deal?

PERINO: That would win awards. That would Emmy Award-winning.

GUTFELD: Answer the question.

PERINO: I think, look, here's -- the game show was they averted the shutdown. It was like not even Bud Light. It tasted terrible and gave you a horrible political hangover. This is going to hangover them for a little while now.

You know what this really helped is the permanent political class in Washington D.C. and the lobbyists, because you can bet, for example, that because the unions did not get what they wanted out of this past deal, they would be working very hard to get it in January or February whenever they decide to finally get this done.

Same is true on the Republican side. Everybody in Washington is thinking, hot damn, this is great. I'll get more contracts now and continue to tell my clients that I'm going to be able to fight for them and their tax break, et cetera, et cetera.

I don't have a lot of faith in the McCaskill-Paul Ryan talks, because I have faith in Paul Ryan, I don't have faith in the president's activity in this. If you remember, the last time there was a super committee, that was supposed the big deal. They came to an agreement and then he chunked it out the window. None of these things matter.

GUTFELD: Yes, I don't remember that.

PERINO: Well, we were on the show. We discussed it. You should keep your notes.

BECKEL: Can we keep in mind the vast majority of the American people wanted this over? It wasn't just a bunch of --

GUTFELD: I don't think people were even paying attention. There's a misguided notion D.C. is the center of the universe. Ninety-nine percent of the population were going out there and they had to make the shutdown seem like it was apocalyptic. But still, nobody --

TANTAROS: Yes, and that's why they pulled those stunts at the World War II Memorial, and they tried to make it bigger, like sequestration.

What I thought was so egregious was the fact that President Barack Obama said, if Republicans would have succeeded in leveling the playing field, right, letting and making sure that the political class has the same rules and regs as everybody else says, President Barack Obama said, I'm going to veto those subsidies, those generous subsidies for Congress. That barely made the papers, Greg.


TANTAROS: I don't think people were following this closely. There is a consolation prize to no deal or no deal for Republicans. Now, every single day, they have to get on the same page with ObamaCare. They need to go to one of their retreats that they like to go to and get on the same page, bicameral, House and Senate, and figure out what the strategy is.

It can't be these messages all over the place, one was defund, one was delay, one was medical device tax. That means bupkis. It's a stupid tax.

The other one was entitlement reform. What do Republicans want? I mean, I was posed that question today.

BECKEL: Do you dislike Obama so much that you can't for one day for once say the guy won?

TANTAROS: I don't think he won, Bob.

BECKEL: Oh my God. How could you say that?

TANTAROS: I don't.

BECKEL: You're so smart in so many ways, I just can't --

PERINO: Politically, he probably did, but I think in the court of public opinion, out in the country, Washington lost.

TANTAROS: What do you constitute winning? A couple of polls that you --

BECKEL: Not a couple, a lot of polls. Not just a couple, a lot. And the Republicans took a terrible beating.

BOLLING: And there's no doubt Republicans have to refocus the message, they have to figure, come up with a concerted this is what we stand for. I would suggest it's not about immigration, which we're going to start to hear a lot more about. It's not about contraceptives, it's not about women's rights. It's about the economy.

It's the economy, stupid. Remember James Carville's famous line that got President Clinton elected.

Stay on that message. That's what it is. This debt thing, Bob, you make fun of. This debt, $17 trillion in debt on our way to $25 trillion is an overhang that we can't afford to ignore.

At one point, China is going to go, we're going to pay 3 percent anymore, we're going to make that 6 percent. What do you think of that?

Your debt -- you're exposure debt goes from $300 billion to $600 billion overnight. That would be a problem. And it could.

GUTFELD: I have a question for you, Eric, because this is a financial question. If the shutdown, they claimed, took out $24 billion out of the economy, why don't we quadruple the size of the government. If that's the philosophy, we should all be working for government.

PERINO: That's Paul Krugman's --

BOLLING: I don't know. That was Moody's -- S&P, I'm sorry. S&P said $24 billion. How did they come up with that? I'm not sure where Fitch says if you don't reopen the government quickly, we're going to downgrade debt because we won't have the ability to pay.

I'm not sure who's getting to these people. There seems to be motivation for the agencies to be having opinions, political opinions, which they don't really, they shouldn't have at all.

PERINO: They make money off of this.

BECKEL: So, now, the press is the back pocket. The (INAUDIBLE) are in the back pocket. The business establishments --

PERINO: And the polls are wrong, don't forget.

BECKEL: The polls are wrong. And all the business community which comes down on the Republicans hard and the Tea Party harder, they're all in Obama's back pocket.

GUTFELD: Obama has got more back pockets than the Gap.

BOLLING: I give all besides the business community. How and where did they come down on Republicans exactly?

BECKEL: I read (ph) --

BOLLING: No, no, just give me an example. This is the most unfriendly business environment of probably the last four decades, as far as regulation, as far taxation, corporate taxation, hiring, now ObamaCare. This is the worst environment to hire people --

BECKEL: The Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable did not want this --

BOLLING: The Chamber of Commerce?


BOLLING: I don't defer to Chamber of Commerce to all businesses of America.

GUTFELD: Can I just jump to -- I want to play one side of Obama talking to Congress about who you should listen to before we go to break. And then I'm going to ask you a question.



OBAMA: All of us need to stop focusing on the lobbyist, and the bloggers, and talking heads on radio and the professional activists who profit from conflict, and focus on what the majority of Americans sent us here to.


GUTFELD: So, is he talking all the talking heads and all the bloggers, or just the talking heads and the bloggers on one side?

PERINO: I think that he was trying to channel a message directly to you. I really think. If you look into his eye, he was thinking that Greg Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Yes. Nobody listens to me.

But, Andrea, what was he getting at? What do you think?

TANTAROS: I think he was -- he was doing what he does best, and that's lecture, right? He's lecturing. And he's also telling the American people don't listen to the chattering class on the right. Don't listen to the Tea Party, don't listen to talk radio.

GUTFELD: Listen to "The New York Times".

TANTAROS: Listen to me, above all else. That's what they want. It's just unfortunate Republicans couldn't get anything out of this.

So, while I don't think the president won, per se, Bob, I will say I do think Republicans lost. And we lost the most.

GUTFELD: All right. Coming up, President Barack Obama 's former chief of staff wants to thank the Tea Party for helping the president cover up the ObamaCare disaster. Look at Bob --


BILL DALEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Every time he gets in trouble, they come to his rescue.


GUTFELD: Is he right?

Check out our Facebook page at, and our new web site at


TANTAROS: Well, with the shutdown and debt drama behind us for the time being, the biggest questions remaining in Washington right now are what can be learned and what happens next?

Obama's former chief of staff Bill Daily thinks the Tea Party has actually helped the president throughout this debacle.


NORAH O'DONNELL, TV HOST: Why did you say you think the president is so lucky to have the Tea Party?

DALEY: Every time he seems to get in trouble, they come to his rescue.

The American people do have a great concern about spending and yet these people pick ObamaCare to have the fight over.

O'DONNELL: And the fact there have been so many glitches in the rollout of ObamaCare, including internal estimates of how many would be signed up in the first couple of months, White House is not releasing that. But there's really not been a focus on that because it's been about the budget fight.

DALEY: Right, so they have him from that, which would have been a very difficult couple of weeks since the rollout begun.


TANTAROS: But Tea Party Senators Ted Cruz and Mike Lee said their tragedy would have worked with united Republican front and they're not ready to give up the fight.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: If Senate Republicans had united and supported House Republicans, supported the American people, we could have had a very different outcome. But instead, Senate Republican divided and, in fact, actively and aggressively attacked House Republicans, attacked the effort to defund ObamaCare. And that's what led to the lousy deal we had tonight.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: We've got to emphasize the fact that is really just the end of the beginning. This is a fight that's going to continue.


TANTAROS: All right. So, Eric, a lot of people have disagreed with Ted Cruz's tact tick defunding strategy because it was never realistic from the get-go. Is there some truth to what Norah O'Donnell was saying, which is they saved Obama from his own mistakes? We've talked about this around this table. They did, didn't they, Republicans?

BOLLING: Well, no, I'm not sure. I think what happened was Ted Cruz and Mike Lee to a certain extent did what they felt they had to do, they had to fight the fight, whether they believed in their minds they are winning or not. But they had to find out who was on their side, who are the conservatives going to back defunding ObamaCare in the face of unlikely odds to see who was there.

Going forward 2014, I think this -- I think the Tea Party will become stronger because of this, because there was a voice that they were speaking that although they didn't win was still wanting to be heard.

I find it very interesting, though, on the right -- Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie played this very well. They were in the right place and the right time right frame of mind. But they laid back a little bit. They let this fight be fought by Cruz and Lee right now. They watched. And I think they may be the ones who kind of come around in `14 and again in `16 and say, hey, look, we're on your side, speak you're voice. Let's do a more realistic way.

TANTAROS: If there's one silver lining, Dana, one at all, can Republicans thank Ted Cruz for putting them on the record as being against ObamaCare? So, now, going forward every time there's a negative headline which I'd love to see if the media is actually going to start reporting them, they can say I told you so.

PERINO: Well, I guess if you're in the group of 16 senators or 18 senators that voted no, that maybe you're in that position. But all the others are not. And the most important is that you have the Senate red state Democrats that are up for re-election that are going to have a tough re-election.

So, Mary Landrieu, for example, of Louisiana, who was in a very difficult position just even two weeks polling-wise, pulls way ahead of her Republican opponent in Louisiana over the last two weeks. I don't know how lasting this is. I think in two weeks, we're going to have yet another crisis.

But to Norah O'Donnell's point, in August, we were on this table talking about, geez, the weight of the IRS scandal and Benghazi, and Fast and Furious and Syria complete debacle, and now, today, President Barack Obama gets to take a victory lap. I don't call that winning.

From the beginning you were never going to have five Senate Democrats and the president defund their own bill. So, I would say that maybe if you're a purist, you think this is great. The problem is there are completely different world views happening. And Democrats with their view are 100 percent united. And the Republicans and Tea Party conservatives are probably 95 percent united, not enough.

TANTAROS: Do you think that Eric has a point this did rally the base and show them that, I guess, on some level there are people willing to fight in this? Or no, do you think the Republican Party, Greg, is more fractured than ever?

GUTFELD: Well, the point -- the problem with Cruz trying to check out to see who's with him and who's against him, what if you think it's a bad strategy? Then what happens is you become a victim of SABS, self-appointed bouncer syndrome, where all of a sudden -- well, you know what, you're not as conservative as I am. You're out of the club.

That's the opposite of Reagan. Reagan got people into the club. We can disagree. People with brains were for the strategy. People with brains were against the strategy. You don't become stupid because you disagree. You don't become a RINO because you disagree.

I'm also critical of these anchors. They say, if this didn't happen, they'd be all over ObamaCare.

TANTAROS: Yes, right.

GUTFELD: We don't know that, because they certainly mocked Benghazi and mocked other scandals.

Finally, there's a solution here: harnessed the gift of ObamaCare. Every candidate should go out there and handcuffed somebody who's a victim of ObamaCare. ObamaCare is a fire lose of bad government you could spray all over immigration reform, spray all over climate change. It's the greatest argument for small government. That can rally -- ObamaCare can rally everybody --

PERINO: I agree.

GUTFELD: -- that believes that government is bad.

TANTAROS: Bob, you have been looking at the polls over the last couple of days and you've been following how the Tea Party has, I guess, been faring in this battle. You were a member of the far left, you protested a lot of things. There's a poll right here.

You've actually said the debt is something we need to tackle. That's what the Tea Party is about. Why do they have such a bad wrap?

BECKEL: Because they're marginalized, because they're not people who understand legislative process does require on occasion trying to find consensus. They are people that have absolutely no experience.

Look, I don't doubt they believe what they believe. They are a marginalized part of American society. They are not as Eric says going to be a big force in 2014. ObamaCare could be, there's no question about that. The Tea Party itself --

BOLLING: Here's what Bob --

BECKEL: -- is basically dead. It is dead, dead, dead. Anybody who wants to get it -- and Republicans are running from it like scolded dogs.

BOLLING: You're forgetting what the Tea Party was formed for, to fight ObamaCare.

BECKEL: That was a long time ago. Republicans are against ObamaCare.


BOLLING: You said in '14, ObamaCare could be a problem. Well, if the Tea Party is a reason for ObamaCare --

BECKEL: I don't think it is the reason.

BOLLING: OK, ObamaCare is the reason for the Tea Party. They'll come back and see we told you. This law sucks. It's your fault. Now elect more of us and change the law.


BECKEL: There are mainstream Republicans, if it's as bad as you say it is, they can pick it up.

But the Tea Party, get this on your belt, for your sake, it's a non- existent entity in American politics.

GUTFELD: I got to tell you, Bob, I hope you keep saying that. The more you say that, the more the Tea Party will gain. I don't think the Tea Party is weakened at all.

BECKEL: You don't think they're weakened?

PERINO: I don't think -- they don't think they're weakened.

GUTFELD: You saw the president of the United States fighting for power while this group was fighting, this amorphous group, were fighting for a principle. They don't care what you think. They don't give a damn what you think.

BECKEL: They lost.

GUTFELD: No, because the ObamaCare is still exposed as a travesty. And they might win the end.

But it's not about winning or losing. It's about shrinking government. They don't care that you think they suck. They really don't.

BOLLING: Can I also add that they won in 2010? You have to admit they won in 2010. You're talking about a second term, midterm elections in the second term president which typically loses seats. That party typically loses seats. You have more strengths to the Tea Party. And don't forget, on a state or local level, the Tea Party kicked, as your point, kicked ass last time around and probably responsible --

BECKEL: They were responsible for putting some people in the House of Representatives. They lost three Senate seats single-handedly.

BOLLING: Talk about how many states flipped from Democrat to Republican last time.

BECKEL: I'm talking about, you could have taken the Senate back, but you lost it because Tea Party put up three radical candidates that have lost.

TANTAROS: Think about this. The more people get acclimated with ObamaCare, if they can even log on, the more they're going to identify their frustration with this bill, with this law I should say, with what the Tea Party is saying. The Tea Party is not going to stop fighting. I know you want them to stop fighting.

BECKEL: No, it's not --

TANTAROS: I know you're going to try to call them, one of your Democratic buddies, Robert Redford, trying to call anyone that opposes the president racist. Here we go again with this card. Here's Redford.

BECKEL: I said that the Tea --


ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR: There's a body on congressional people that want to paralyze the system. What's underneath it unfortunately is there's probably some racism involved which is really awful.

INTERVIEWER: Is that the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about?

REDFORD: I think -- well, I don't know if it's an elephant. It's some kind of animal.


REDFORD: I think it's not just racism. I think it's a great of people that are so afraid of change and they're so narrow-minded that when you see -- some people when they see change coming, get so threatened by change, they get angry and they get terrorized and they get vicious.


TANTAROS: Vicious and terrorized. What's wrong with not liking change?

GUTFELD: You know what's funny, Robert Redford made a movie, it was a flop. I think it was called "The Company You Keep," which whitewashed a terrorist who killed a black guard in a Brinks truck robbery. So, why did he cover that up? Why didn't he point that?

I think Redford is a racist and an aging relevant racist attack.

BECKEL: It's a bad idea that we're using the word "racism" in the Tea Party, it doesn't make any change. But what's happening with the Tea Party -- I believe they believe in what they believe in. I'm not trying to diminish that. But as a political force, it reminds me of what happened to the McGovernites back in the `70s, when the Democratic Party, the mainstream, took it back over and decided they had enough of the fringe.

This is what's happening with the Republican Party and the Tea Party. Look at any pole, look at Republicans on the trail, they're staying away from the Tea Party. They don't want anything to do with them and they're right to do it.

GUTFELD: But, Bob, OK, it is hard to participate in something that you don't like. That is the challenge of the conservative. When liberals say, where's your ObamaCare? Where's your alternative?

We don't believe in that because we're small government. And that's the problem. It's like an atheist going to church, or you going to the gym, Tea Party are always antagonistic to government, which is why you don't like them, because you like government.

BOLLING: Can I throw something out here, too, Bob? If you take the Tea Party and then you add in the libertarian, call them libertarian party, you put those together and there's some overlap. No doubt, there's some overlap. If you get that and have that grow from -- have the GOP grow up from that, that's a force to be reckoned with.

BECKEL: Grow out with from that?

BOLLING: Yes, libertarians and the Tea Party.

BECKEL: That's like growing out from Joe McCarthy (INAUDIBLE)

TANTAROS: I think you'd be surprised if you took the Tea Party label off and you brought in a group of people, maybe they should try it on Hannity's live shows and talk about what the Tea Party stands for, reducing the debt, which is a question that is asked in many polls, people agree wit this. I think when they revealed who they identify with more, President Obama or the Tea Party, I think most people would be surprised and identify with the Tea Party.

BECKEL: Republicans have been for themselves for years. It's not the Tea Party. Republicans opposed ObamaCare and didn't vote a single vote for it. They have been against the budget spending.

TANTAROS: Ahead --

BECKEL: So, you give that credit to the Tea Party? Give me a break.

TANTAROS: Some atheists are upset with Oprah. Yes, you won't believe this.

So, what did the queen of talk say that got them so irritated? We'll show you that coming up. Stay with us.


BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody.

Remember when President Barack Obama promised to be the most transparent president in history? You don't. Here's a quick refreshment.


OBAMA: I have a track record of transparency.

I'll make our government open and transparent.

We'll do it in a transparent way.

I want transparency. I want accountability.


BOLLING: Oh, come one, transpa -- come on, really?

Here's how "Financial Times" correspondent Richard McGregor describes it. Quote, "Covering this White House is pretty miserable in terms of getting anything of substance to report on in what should be a much more open system.

Ellen Weiss, Washington bureau chief for E.W. Scripps newspapers and station said, quote, "The Obama administration is far worse than the Bush administration in trying to afford accountability reporting government agencies."

And don't forget, CBS report Sharyl Attkisson trying to report on Fast and Furious and Eric Holder, she said she was screamed and cussed at by a White House advisor.

Transparency, Mr. President, surely, you're joking.

Dana, where's the transparency -- this could be not the most transparent, but the most opaque. Is that the right word?

PERINO: Well, if you're in the White House and looking at this report the former "Washington Post" editor Leonard Downey put out last week which kind of got lost, you're thinking high five. We're doing a good job protecting our boss. So, that's one way to look at it.

I always felt it was best to have the relationship. So, I knew they had a job to do everyday, reporters. They knew I had a job to do. Try to defend the president 50 percent of the time.

But you also have the responsibility to defend the access of the press to the president and other agencies. I understand their frustration. But I think the administration probably things they're doing a bang up job.

BOLLING: Greg, social media -- remember President Barack Obama, he is the first social media president. He got elected on social media. Well, social media is kind of like shined light on a lot of things that use to maybe stay in the corner, not seen. Is that part of the problem, that he wasn't expecting so much light to be shined on his presidency?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I think it's more like the media is sad he doesn't hang out with them. They wanted to be friends. He was the cool guy.

He was -- they're the fan club to One Direction. For those of you that don't have kids like me, One Direction is a bunch of teen bopper boys. The toughest question they get is will you marry me? That's how the press is with Obama, and the fact that he hasn't reciprocated.

He hasn't come back and said I love you too. They were going to walk off on the sunset on the beach and barefoot and white linen, it didn't happen.

BOLLING: Bob, one of the most important things going on now. They could actually tell us how many people enrolled in ObamaCare. Why won't they?

BECKEL: Why? I mean --


BECKEL: They haven't gotten as many as they like, so why tell anybody? I mean, I consider this a great badge of courage and political astuteness. I mean, I don't know of an administration that's wanted to have its laundry transparent out there for, if that's such a word, for the press. If they don't get it? Tough luck.

I mean, look, the idea here is in politics we do our best to cover up bad news. We don't want bad news to get out.

BOLLING: Did you see the montage, though? He ran on transparency.

BECKEL: Everybody runs on transparency --

TANTAROS: No, not, Bob.

BECKEL: Presidential candidate --



TANTAROS: No, not at the level president Barack Obama did. He promised unprecedented amount of transparency and didn't get it.

I don't blame him, though. I think his advisors are doing a great job. They're bullying, they're getting their way. Dana said, the media only speaks up and calls him on this when they're not allowed to watch him golf. Remember that was when that prompted the media outrage because they didn't get to watch him play golf with Tiger Woods.

However, he is actively fighting FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, request in court, at Obama's direction. He is fighting this every way, both executive privilege on Fast and Furious. He won't let us see the ObamaCare records. Then he spies on everybody else, including the media.


BECKEL: Greg particularly keeps saying media is in his back pocket. Now, you're saying all the poor media is not getting access. Come on. You can't have it both ways.

GUTFELD: The media --


BOLLING: Right. They're not asking the tough questions.


BECKEL: Oh, they're not?

TANTAROS: They're not.

BOLLING: My daughter wanted me to ask you, how cool is it to be president? In the midst of the financial shutdown.


BOLLING: We've got to leave it there.

Are you in a toxic relationship with someone? Would you even know it if you were? Dana has got a list of signs to help determine if it could be time to let that person go. Greg, watch out.


PERINO: Are any of you out there married or in a relationship and something isn't quite right? The relationship could be toxic. How could you tell?

I came across interesting advice from Dr. Gregory Popcak of the Pastoral Solutions Institute.

Greg, this statement was designed for me and Greg.

Here are five signs you are in a toxic relationship: One, it seems like you can't do anything right. Two, everything is about them and never about you. Three, you find yourself unable to enjoy good moments with this person. Four, you're uncomfortable being yourself around that person. And five, you're not allowed to grow and change.

Does that ring a bell for you?

TANTAROS: Or you both aren't going to grow anymore, let's just get that out.

GUTFELD: I'm actually shrinking as we speak.

A relationship is toxic when somebody uses the word toxic. What happened to bad or lousy? Toxic is one of those words that experts use and magazine editors use and it's just garbage.

And the other thing I hate about this is --

PERINO: Toxic is more descriptive than bad.

GUTFELD: This article was written by somebody who got dumped. All right. This is the list of symptoms. They mock your personality, everything is about them. This guy got dumped by somebody.

The bottom line is, relationships are easy until they get hard. That's the story of life when you live with somebody forever. It's really easy to bounce from casual relationship to casual relationship because you never get dirty. You never get involved.

That's why monogamy is the bravest thing in the world. Being married is the bravest hardest thing you can do. Trust me.

PERINO: You have a lot to say.

GUTFELD: Well, no, because I was in the magazine industry. I saw this article reconstituted every month by hack writes.

PERINO: People like this stuff because people are in relationships.

Bob, you have been lucky in love. Have you ever been in a toxic relationship like this?

BECKEL: Well, I will say this. In defense of my former wife, she had to put up with a lot of this from me. I was never meant to be in a relationship. Some people aren't.

TANTAROS: No kidding. At least you're honest about it.

BECKEL: Now, you all are going to sit here and say with your current situations that you don't have any of this. I'm sure you think your opposite does everything right.

PERINO: Well, it is all about me and not Peter.

BECKEL: It's never about them, it's about you. I mean, come on. You have to own up to some of this.

PERINO: What do you think is the worst of these, Andrea? If you had to pick one of those things in a relationship as Bob, what would you pick?

TANTAROS: I think being uncomfortable being yourself. That's a really bad one when people can't be themselves around somebody else because they're afraid they're going to be critiqued. They're hiding who they really are.

GUTFELD: Or you're too comfortable.

TANTAROS: There is such a thing.

GUTFELD: Certain types of bodily functions.

TANTAROS: But I do agree with you on this, Greg. I do think this is giving people an out to say, well, I have numbers one, two, three, it's over because it's hard and I'm out of here. I do think that's true.

PERINO: I actually think Eric that this could help people that they don't understand what's wrong in their life. They read something like this and say oh my gosh, I'm in a toxic relationship. And they fix it.

BOLLING: Do they fix it?

PERINO: Maybe.

TANTAROS: They don't.

GUTFELD: Every woman's hack article in every "Cosmo" or "Glamour", oh this is me. I'm going to do something about it. Oh muffins.

BECKEL: Can I just point? One of the attempts of dealing with, I guess, difficult relationship is don't be a Debbie Downer, that "SNL" character.

PERINO: That's so accurate. If you are just happy, if your significant other is mean to somebody else or Debbie Downer towards somebody else, I don't like that.

GUTFELD: Yes, you can't date somebody who's mean to a waiter.

PERINO: No, I agree.

TANTAROS: They'll be mean to you eventually.

BECKEL: I'm being serious here. This thing about not being able to grow and change is true about any relationship. I mean, that's probably hard trying to get somebody trapped and not let them expand to their fullest.

Now, my wife had enough sense to dump me before I expanded to my fullest, because that would have been disaster. I think there's a lot of people that do hold people back in marriages.

GUTFELD: That's another excuse.

PERINO: You also, it can work the other way. If you're in a good relationship it could help you grow and do more.

TANTAROS: I think everyone has their own crap. It's just a matter of who's crap you're willing to put up with.

PERINO: You know what, we could have ended the segment with that there.

That's the relationship advice with THE FIVE.

BOLLING: Just have fun. Just have fun.

GUTFELD: Are you advocating swinging?

PERINO: Whoa, whoa. We'll talk about that on the break.

Now, we're going to talk about this because Bob's block is next.


PERINO: I don't want you to get mad at me if you're block is only two minutes.

OK. Some atheists in America are very upset with Oprah Winfrey and demanding an apology. They're an angry bunch about something she said to record setting swimmer Diana Nyad. You're going to find out what ticked them off, ahead.


BECKEL: Atheists in America have a new target, Oprah Winfrey.

What are they upset about with the talk show queen? Over an interview she just did with record setting swimmer Diana Nyad who swam from Cuba to Florida without a shark cage. Now, that's smart.

Nyad told Oprah she doesn't believe in God but she does believe in awe and wonder.

Here's Winfrey's respond was to that.


OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: You told our producers that you're not a God person, that you're a person who is in deeply awe.

DIANA NYAD, SWIMMER: I'm an atheist. And --

WINFREY: You're in the awe.

NYAD: Yes, but, you know, I don't know why anybody would find, you know, a contradiction in that. To me my definition of God is humanity and love of humanity --

WINFREY: Well, I don't call you as an atheist. If you believe in the awe and wonder and mystery --


WINFREY: That that is what God is.


WINFREY: That is what God is.


BECKEL: The atheists -- various atheists clubs of America who are extremely tolerant people have asked that Oprah apologize.

TANTAROS: Oh, yes.

BECKEL: What do you think, Eric? Do you think she should apologize or will she apologize?

BOLLING: No, I don't think she -- first of all, I'm thoroughly confused what she's talking about. If you have awe in nature that means you believe in God? I don't really understand how that --


BOLLING: I believe in God and I respect in everyone's right not to believe in God. But I don't think we should have an opinion whether Nyad believes in God or not. Why waste so much time --

PERINO: Why not? I think they were having -- first of all, I'm an unabashed Oprah fan. They were having a discussion. Oprah expressed her opinion she wouldn't call her an atheist and she believes in humanity and awe. So, why should she apologize for her opinion?

She wasn't -- I don't why atheists are so overly sensitive. Everything is an insult to them.

GUTFELD: Not awe, you have to be careful here.

PERINO: To some people, like Greg.

GUTFELD: There are plenty of extremely sensitive religious people as well. There are religious people who will kill you if you insult their religion. You can't blame all atheists as being hyper sensitive.

There's many atheists, some people who you work with don't care one way or another what you believe in. So, I don't think you can say -- obviously there was an offhand comment and it was a discussion.

One thing they pit atheism versus lack of faith. There are other options out there. There could be a God but he just moved on.

PERINO: Or maybe it's a different kind of God.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's what she was saying.

BECKEL: What do you think?

TANTAROS: Well, I guess you can be in awe of something even though she doesn't understand it. I guess if you believe that we came here because of some massive explosion out of nowhere and there is no God, which I'm assuming what she's saying, she can be in awe that we just exploded or evolved from monkeys. I would be in awe -- I am in awe of that theory. I don't believe it.

But, look, Oprah can say whatever the heck she wants. She's sitting down with the queen of talk. She's got to deal with Oprah. Oprah is not going to apologize. That's how she feels. She's allowed to participate.

That's why people love Oprah. She's opinionated. Sometimes you like her, sometimes you don't. I don't know why atheists care so much.

BECKEL: The other thing, I think, when she talks about awe and wonder. I mean, that is for people who are spiritual people, or people of faith, they do see awe and wonder in nature as something having to have been given to us by God.

But atheists don't. That's their business. Everybody ought to --

GUTFELD: I think she was saying you can appreciate awe without having it connected to a higher being.

BECKEL: Right.

BOLLING: Nyad was.


BOLLING: Oprah didn't accept that.


BECKEL: That was her opinion.

OK, "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: It's time for "One More Thing".

Let's go to Bob first.

BECKEL: OK. You know I do this thing once in a while about this day in history, one day in this day in history in 1931 gangster Al Capone is sentenced to 11 years for tax evasion and fined $80,000. He was one of the great criminals of all times in the `20s and '30s and he died of syphilis.

There's a reminder of everybody out there --


BECKEL: Crime and syphilis do not pay.

TANTAROS: Have you ever heard the saying those in glass houses?

PERINO: You can wear a hat.

GUTFELD: All right. As you know Friday, last Friday, Alec Baldwin's new show debuted on MSNBC. What people didn't realize is that he actually has a segment on exercise in which he leads the audience in actual exercises. I think we have a tape.

Tetherball is really good as you get older. He's working his shoulders and his muscles.

PERINO: It helps your core.

GUTFELD: It does help your core.

BECKEL: I think it's a great exercise.

GUTFELD: We should have an exercise segment.

PERINO: I had a tetherball at home when I was a kid.

GUTFELD: I don't care.


TANTAROS: OK. So my favorite snack, gummy bears. The creator died this week at 90 years old.

BECKEL: Oh, bummer.

TANTAROS: His name is Hans Riegel. He's from Germany. He's worth billions of dollars and he worked up until the day he died because he said it made him happy and that's the slogan of the Haribo gummy bear, everybody, the most delicious gummy bears in the world. It makes people happy.

And I'm going to devour this entire bag before Bob steals.

BECKEL: Give me a couple. Come on.]


BOLLING: Very quickly, running out of time. FOX Nation, new article, the liberal media we talked about. Check it out Leave a comment.

GUTFELD: Dana, I hear you have an excellent one more thing. I thought, no, we really not because Joshua and Sean the producers I work with could not come up with a good one more thing for me today. However I'm throwing them under the bus because they dropped the ball but they are great about one thing, social media and our website. Sean O'Rourke helped engineer and made sure our Web site THE FIVE,, no,

This is an excellent Web site. It puts ObamaCare to shame and it did not cost taxpayers $300 million in a no bid contract.

BECKEL: I can't get on the damn thing. How do you get on it?

PERINO: ObamaCare?



PERINO: You can find out everything that's going to happen in the segment if you miss Greg's monologue you can catch it there. There's a tip you gave on one more thing to all the parents to sync their phones.

And I have turned this one more thing nothing into an amazing one minute of television that no one will ever forget.

GUTFELD: Without mentioning once your dog.


GUTFELD: I'm sorry.


GUTFELD: I apologize.


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