OTR Interviews

Former Casey Anthony attorney Jose Baez: 'No one won here'

Jose Baez 'OTR' Uncut, Pt. 1: Casey Anthony's former attorney on their first meeting, whether he believed her story and lingering questions about the case


This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," July 6, 2012. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS GUEST HOST: Her trial played out on nation television, and the nation watched as Casey Anthony was acquitted of murdering her daughter Caylee. But since that controversial verdict one year ago Anthony has been in hiding. There's been very little new information revealed about her until now. Casey Anthony's former defense attorney, Jose Baez, is telling all. He just wrote a new book called "Presumed Guilty." And now part two of Greta's interview with Jose Baez.


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Can you disavow me of my opinion of Casey? I saw her as selfish, a liar, cold, and didn't care about her child. That was the public -- I don't think I'm alone in having that view or impression of her based on everything that happened. Can you disavow me of any of that?

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JOSE BAEZ, AUTHOR, "PRESUMED GUILTY": Well I can tell you that if I were in your shoes and I heard of all the things that I heard, I'd probably share the same opinion. But you have to assume that those statements that were made to you, those reports were all true. And the other thing that I would say in her defense would be, you never sat down -- you never sat down with Casey.

VAN SUSTEREN: That's true, but --

BAEZ: You never sat down with Casey. I understand the partying and - -

VAN SUSTEREN: I talked to the people partying. I went to the tattoo parlor. I asked what she was like at the tattoo parlor. I talked to all these people that she was living with in that window between June and mid- July. There was absolutely nothing to suggest that anyone knew there was anything awry with her or that she had any concern for her missing child, absolutely zero.

BAEZ: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: Maybe she knew the child was dead from seeing the child dead at the pool at home, I don't know. But it's stunning how cold.


VAN SUSTEREN: So she walks in here. You say, "Casey, I haven't seen you in a long time." Is that basically how the conversation goes down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. I walked out. I have kids. Anybody that's a regular that has children, usually interact, and I asked her where her daughter was. She said she was with the nanny. And we talked a little bit, and she said she was making an appointment for Saturday and would bring her in with her.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was that the end of the conversation about her daughter? Or was it perfectly natural about the way it flowed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking back now, that was the scary part. It was natural, not a blink, no hesitation, no show of emotions, just straight ahead into I'll bring her Saturday.


BAEZ: Let's take that and analyze that a little bit more. It's either cold or it could be something much deeper. For example, this is a person who created a different life, created numerous friends that didn't exist, with the nanny. The nanny wasn't just the only one. I mean, Casey got up each morning, got dressed up, and got Caylee ready, and went to a job that didn't exist for two whole years.

VAN SUSTEREN: That's weird.

BAEZ: Two whole years.

VAN SUSTEREN: That's very strange.

BAEZ: I think it's a little bit more than weird.

VAN SUSTEREN: You're right, it is.

BAEZ: She created all of these stories of all these different people in her life who didn't exist. And there was a -- one of the telling parts in the trial that I found fascinating about Casey's imaginary friends -- that's what we called them -- is Juliet Lewis, there was an incident where Cindy testified that one day they went to -- Casey and Cindy went to Universal Studios and waited in the parking lot for an hour and a half for Juliet Lewis to show up, and she never showed up.


BAEZ: Juliet Lewis, who is she?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was told she was a coworker of Casey's through not only Universal Studios, but also someone she worked with at Hard Rock Cafe.

BAEZ: And did you ever speak to Juliet Lewis?


BAEZ: What does she look like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could only tell you a description that Casey gave me. I've never seen her.

BAEZ: And why did she describe her to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember one day we were sitting in Universal parking lot waiting for her boss and Juliet to arrive. We were supposed to -- I volunteered to help Casey with a fundraiser.

BAEZ: And how long did you wait for Juliet before she never showed up?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hour, hour and a half.


BAEZ: Think about that for a second. That's the length of a movie while you're sitting there waiting for someone to appear who you know doe doesn't exist. And what was the motive for that? Murder? No, absolutely not. This happened close to a year before anything ever happened to Caylee.

So all of these things -- this would have to be a remarkable, extraordinary, super thought-out process of two years of living in this fantasy world is really the only phrase that I can use, or that there's something wrong, that this person knows how to shut out and compartmentalize what is going on in their life and what they're actually feeling, and go on and live like nothing ever happened.

And, you know, I just certainly couldn't put my finger on it. Of course we put forth the reason that Casey was telling us we thought might have been the reason. It's also based on some of the conversations that I had with some of the mental health experts, that this is a -- these are symptoms of someone who suffered significant trauma and abuse.

VAN SUSTEREN: Let me ask you about that abuse. The allegation at the trial was that George sexually abused her. Did you ever ask George about it or did you have -- I realizes if abuse occurs it's done in private, but is there anything to corroborate that?

BAEZ: In the book one of the first things -- one of the things that I mention when we talk about the case and the abuse is that we sat George down in his office. And this was just before the letters were going to come out from one of the jailhouse snitches that Casey was alleging that he had abused her. And we sat George down and we told him that his daughter was saying that she -- that he sexually abused her.

And he didn't admit to it, but he didn't deny it. And we found that to be very shocking to us, that it left Cheney and I looking at each other in complete -- we were dumbfounded, and we couldn't understand how he just didn't deny it. Now, again, that's one of those things that it's more of a subjective opinion. But all I can tell you is we confronted Mr. Anthony about the abuse and he never ever, ever denied it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was there any suggestion or any accusation that he ever abused the child, Caylee Anthony?

BAEZ: You know, we thought -- and first of all, that's something we gave consideration to when we were -- when we were investigating the case. In fact, we even thought and considered maybe the reason that he didn't call 9-11 was because, you know, an autopsy would ensue and that kind of abuse would be revealed.

However, I didn't have any evidence to support it. It was just speculation. And because of that, you know, I said, no, we can't go that far. It's not something that -- while I could have argued it, and we could have pushed the issue, I just didn't feel without some type of corroboration or without some type of something in that direction, I didn't feel comfortable doing.