This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," April 28, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Reverend Wright says the criticism is not an attack on him, but rather an attack on the black church. Here is what he said this morning at the National Press Club.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRIGHT: As I said, this is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright. It has nothing to do with Senator Obama. This is an attack on the black church launched by people who know nothing about the African-American religious tradition. And why am I speaking out now? In our community, we have something called playing the dozens. If you think I'm going to let you talk about my mama...
(LAUGHTER)
WRIGHT: ... And her religious tradition and my daddy and his religious tradition and my grandma, you got another think coming.
Understand, when you're talking about my mama, once again, and talking about my faith tradition once again, how long do you let somebody talk about your faith tradition before you speak up and say something in defense of -- this is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright. Once again, let me say it again. This is an attack on the black church.
And I cannot, as a minister of the gospel, allow the significant part of our history -- most African-Americans and most European-Americans, also Hispanic Americans -- half the names I called in my presentation have never heard of it because they don't know anything at all about our tradition. And to lift up those, they did not -- they would have died in vain had I just kept quiet longer and longer and longer and longer. As I said, this is an attack on the black churches, not about Obama, McCain, Hillary, Bill, Chelsea. This is about the black church.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us in Houston is Reverend Myron Cloyd of the Pilgrim Congregational United Church of Christ. Reverend Cloyd has known Reverend Wright for the past 25 years.
Welcome, Reverend.
REV. MYRON CLOYD, PILGRIM CONGREGATIONAL UCC: Hello. How are you doing, Greta?
VAN SUSTEREN: Very well. Reverend, I have to -- I have to differ with Reverend Wright on this. He says that this is not a personal attack on him, it's not an attack on him but on the black church. Frankly, if the -- all the criticism has been directed directly at him for his words, and no one's said anything rotten or mean or nasty about the black church. Isn't he trying to divide people now, trying to get allies in the black church thinking that they themselves are under siege?
CLOYD: Well, I certainly disagree with you on that. I don't think his saying that this is an attack on the black church is way off base. The fact of the matter is, the ethos out of which he speaks, shares, preaches and does what he does in terms of ministry is, in fact, the ethos of a significant portion, you know, or part of the black religious experience and community. Now, hear this. You know...
Watch Greta's interview with the Rev. Myron Cloyd
VAN SUSTEREN: But here's the problem...
CLOYD: The black church is -- black churches are not a monolithic group. You have all kind of persuasions of churches that are predominantly black in terms of the demographics of their congregation. Yes, you know, there is a historical black church, and at the core of the historical...
VAN SUSTEREN: But let me...
CLOYD: ... Black church is liberation.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I got that...
CLOYD: And he's speaking about...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's the theology, and...
CLOYD: ... Liberation and empowerment of black people...
VAN SUSTEREN: But I understand...
CLOYD: ... And at the core of that is self-determination. And so...
VAN SUSTEREN: Reverend, I understand that, but that's not the objection. Let me give you one specific...
CLOYD: OK.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you -- have you said this in your church, or would you say this, that, "We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing that al Qaeda is doing under a different color flag," essentially saying that we're like al Qaeda. Is that something you, sir, would say in your black church, or is that something only Reverend Wright says?
CLOYD: No, as a matter of fact, I've said something similar to that in my church, in my congregation. Now, not everybody in the -- in the sanctuary that day agreed with me. Certainly, you know, I spoke some very similar words to that as we were getting ready to invade Iraq because...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well...
CLOYD: ... I thought at that time, and as I still see now, as many other people do, that that's an unjust war, and we went in under lie and pretense, OK, and...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me ask you this. Would you say that...
CLOYD: And so our...
VAN SUSTEREN: Would you say -- I'm just trying to understand what's said in the black churches and what's not so I can sort of decipher this.
CLOYD: I'm sorry. Repeat that again?
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm just trying to understand what is said by Reverend Wright himself and what is said in your church and other churches. Would you say that September 11 was essentially -- that September 11 was a time when chickens have come home to roost? Is that something you, sir, would say in your church?
CLOYD: I haven't used those exact words. And again Reverend, Wright was quoting, you know, a U.S. ambassador when he said those very words. But the fact of the matter is, if you cast...
VAN SUSTEREN: FOX (INAUDIBLE)
CLOYD: If you cast...
VAN SUSTEREN: FOX has gone back to the tapes, and they...
CLOYD: If you cast the bread upon...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... And I've been told that didn't happen.
CLOYD: ... The water -- if you cast your bread upon the water, it's going to return to you. And our government engages in some very heinous acts and things that other people would experience and have and do experience as terrorism.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, then, let me -- then -- then if you're saying that, then we've got the other problem, is that the church, and any church to keep its deductions with the IRS, it can't be a political site, it's got to be a religious site. You know, and I guess that now I'm sort of curious why the reverend mentions, you know, Senator Clinton from the pulpit, President Clinton from the pulpit, had very unflattering things to say about them, and he's talking about 9/11, the chickens coming home to roost, our government not doing -- I mean, it's -- it's getting to be awfully close to political discussion from the pulpit.
CLOYD: Well, certainly, if -- you know, certainly, if you look at -- you know, look at the gospels, certainly, if you look at anything, both New Testament and Old Testament, particularly the Prophets, you know, when you look at Old Testament (INAUDIBLE) and particularly the Prophets, they're speaking about, you know, what -- what the government, if you will, be it the Babylonians, be it the Persians, be it the Syrians and be it the Jewish or Hebrew people at the time, talking about, you know, social aspects. And when you talk about social aspects of the community, certainly, you've got to involve economics, you've got to involve politics to some degree. Now, that's not advocating...
VAN SUSTEREN: I understand...
CLOYD: ... A particular candidate. And when you start talking about our IRS laws, the church's -- church body cannot support a particular candidate as part of this activity. And that's the rule. But we have to speak about social issues. Now, let me make one more point...
VAN SUSTEREN: And I get that. Let me -- just let me (INAUDIBLE) because we're running out of time. And I understand that, and you're right on that. You can't endorse a particular candidate, but you do discuss issues...
CLOYD: Certainly.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... In the context...
CLOYD: Certainly, you have to.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Of -- all right. Let me ask this. Two quick questions. Do you know Senator Obama?
CLOYD: I've met him before, yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any reason to believe that Senator Obama agrees with Reverend Wright on such issues as chickens have come home to roost or this business about...
CLOYD: No, no. I've...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... al Qaeda and the United States...
CLOYD: I've never...
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any reason to believe that?
CLOYD: Never had a conversation with him about those kind of things, you know, never at all. So you know, I can't speak to what his perspective or position is on that.
One thing I'd like to say that I find is interesting -- you know, when I was here, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and as I've heard folks, you know, say, Well, you know, where he is? Why -- you know, why is he -- why isn't Dr. Wright saying or speaking out or coming out? And now that he is, you know, sharing and giving his perspective, and he's accused of grandstanding. You know, many of these...
VAN SUSTEREN: I didn't. I'm happy to hear from him. And he has an open invitation, as you know, Reverend. He can come here. I don't even...
CLOYD: But he's not (INAUDIBLE) You guys asked for him to say something. Now that he is, you're indicting him for speaking out and for sharing his perspective.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm trying to understand him, sir. I'm trying to understand him. He has an open invitation.
(CROSSTALK)
CLOYD: You guys put him in a no-win situation. You say, Speak, and now that he's speaking and sharing, you know, you got folks on here that are accusing him of grandstanding. Now, that's not fair.
VAN SUSTEREN: I understand...
CLOYD: You guys wanted him to say something, you know, just because he's saying something you don't agree with or don't want to hear, and you know, that becomes a problem.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I appreciate...
CLOYD: And so, you know, I agree with him on so many points.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I appreciate the problem -- I appreciate the problem he's in. I'd just like to understand his viewpoint. And if he'd come talk more, I'd be ecstatic to talk to him. Reverend, thank you, sir. Thank you for coming back.
CLOYD: Always good to be with you, Greta. Look forward to seeing you again.
VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you, sir.
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