This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," March 5, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GLENN BECK, HOST: Now, President Obama's tax-and-spend policy is marking the death of small business in America. A lot of people will say yes.

Lloyd Chapman, head of the American Small Business Association, is here with us.

Are you in San Francisco, too? Where are you?

LLOYD CHAPMAN, AMERICAN SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION: Yes, I am.

BECK: Good heavens. OK, the last guy made sense. Are you going — I mean, what are the odds that we get two people on the show that make sense, and they're in San Francisco?

Video: Watch Glenn's interview

CHAPMAN: Well, what are the odds?

BECK: Yes, OK. So, do you think that what's happening now in Washington is — I saw 14 percent of small businesses fear they're going to be closing their doors in the next 12 months because of these policies. Is that true?

CHAPMAN: Yes. In fact, quite frankly, it could be even higher than that. When you look at the $2.3 trillion the government has spent to stimulate the economy, not one — not one dime of that, Glenn, has gone to small businesses. So, so far, 100 percent of that $2.3 trillion has gone to the top 1 percent of American companies.

BECK: OK. So, here's what this means, if I'm not mistaken. Please clear up my numbers if I'm wrong on this. But 97 percent of all new jobs are created by small businesses, 70 percent of our economy is created by small businesses. Small businesses are the people that make around $250,000 a year, in that area.

And if you have 14 percent or more, what is the impact on the economy?

CHAPMAN: Huge. It's significant. In fact, so far, President Obama has not only given — he's refused to give small business even a dime of the stimulus package. He's going to raise their taxes. He's refused to address the abuses of the existing federal stimulus program for small businesses.

And mark my words — Barack Obama is going to support legislation that's going to divert even more government small business contracts to wealthy venture capitalists that contribute to his campaign.

BECK: Lloyd, here's...

CHAPMAN: So, small businesses are really in trouble.

BECK: Here's what I don't understand. I mean, you know, we used to be a country that used to believe in the little guy. And it's understandable that, you know, oh, I hate the rich.

Back in the old days, when you would pass it on wealth from generation to generation to generation, that all changed. That's no longer that way. Most rich people are self-made. They're people that started with nothing, and they made something of their lives. And Americans used to believe — I can do it, and if you do do it, we celebrate it.

But now, we're protecting all of the people that are too big to fail. What happened to our country where we look at the big people and not the people that are in their pitch in and they're the underdog?

CHAPMAN: Yes. Well, I'll tell you what, Glenn, I think what happened is that when you look at Congress, and Congress is responsible for this, small businesses don't have a voice in Washington because they don't make a lot of political contributions. I think that's the reason why 100 percent of the bailout bill money has gone to the top 1 percent of large corporations because that's — they make all the political contributions.

But, yes, you're right. President Obama needs to realize that small businesses are the heart and soul of this nation's economy.

BECK: It always has been.

CHAPMAN: They create 97 percent of the new jobs, and he needs to do something to help small businesses, not just, you know, large corporations.

BECK: Look, I mean, here's — to me, here's the scariest thing is. People play by the rules. Americans don't mind a fair fight, but you got to play by the rules and the whole game is being stacked against the individual and it is being stacked for in favor of the collective.

America, let me ask you this — what do you think would be said if anybody would have ever — you know, if Dick Cheney would have gone down and had an evil secret meeting, you know, with all of the big executives about what are we going to do? Biden is meeting in secret with the unions. He's meeting in secret today with the unions.

Do you remember the outrage when everybody was saying that Dick Cheney was doing the big meetings with the oil companies, and the energy companies, and they wanted investigations and everything else?

CHAPMAN: Yes.

BECK: I mean, what are unions going to do to small businesses, Lloyd?

CHAPMAN: Well, you know, I don't think unions are going to do anything to small businesses, but, you know, I don't think unions are going to do anything for small businesses.

BECK: You don't think card — you don't think "card-check" is going - - is going to hurt companies?

CHAPMAN: Oh, it could. It could. I don't really like the fact that Vice President Biden is meeting with anyone in secret. What happened to this increased transparency that President Obama was going to give us? Secret meetings — you know, I don't like it.

BECK: Well, OK. All right, thank you very much, Lloyd.

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