Final Push: Former Bill Clinton Adviser Dick Morris on the Importance of the Pennsylvania Primary

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," April 21, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: We get right to our top story tonight. We are just hours away from voters going to the polls in Pennsylvania. We have complete coverage tonight, Frank Luntz and L.A. Antonio Villaraigosa will be joining us later in the show.

And first the controversy over Barack Obama's — you didn't want to have to say that name, right?


COLMES: First, we talk about the story about the Obama connection to admitted terrorist Bill Ayers, which continues to get coverage on the campaign trail, and now John McCain is talking about it.

Take a look at what he said yesterday to George Stephanopoulos of ABC News who asked Senator Obama during last week's debate.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R-ARIZ.) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sure he's very patriotic, but his relationship with Mr. Ayers is open to question.


MCCAIN: Because if you're going to associate and have as a friend and serve on a board and have a guy kick off your campaign that says he's unrepentant, that says he wish he'd bombed more, and then the worst thing of all that I think really indicates Senator Obama's attitude is he had the incredible statement that he compared Mr. Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist, with Senator Tom Coburn. Senator Coburn, a physician who goes to Oklahoma on the weekends and brings babies into life, comparing those two, I mean that's not — that's an attitude, frankly, that certainly isn't in keeping with the overall attitude of the American people.


COLMES: Joining us now former Clinton adviser, Dick Morris. By the way, you can get Dick's columns and newsletters for free by logging on to

Interesting, Dick, that Charlie Black, who is a senior McCain adviser, said that McCain believes candidates can not be held accountable for all the views of people who endorse them and people who befriend them, and then McCain says what we just played McCain said. We're getting mixed messages out of the McCain camp.

Is Charlie Black right or not?

DICK MORRIS, FORMER CLINTON ADVISER, DICKMORRIS.COM: Well, I don't know. Charlie is a political consultant and a very close friend. When I used to work for Bill Clinton, and I had a code name, nobody knew I was there, the code name was Charlie, and I named it after Charlie Black.

COLMES: Yes. Yes. Right.

Watch Part 1 of our interview with Dick Morris

Watch Part 2 of our interview with Dick Morris

MORRIS: What I want to talk about is that the Ayers connection is a — is one that Obama needs to explain. But Hillary's connections with terrorists are far.

COLMES: Here we go.

MORRIS: .far more extensive. In 1980 Hillary sat on the board of the New World Foundation that gave a grant to the Palestine Liberation Organization headed by [Yasir] Arafat which back then was identified as a terrorist group.

And then in 1996 she had a reception at the White House organized by the American Muslim Association, and Steve Emerson, who you've had on your show — who's really the expert on domestic terrorism, said curiously nearly all of the leaders with whom Mrs. Clinton elected to meet came from Islamic fundamentalist organizations, and he said that AMA has sanctioned terrorism, published anti-Semitic statements, and repeatedly hosted conferences that were forms for denunciation of Jews and exhortations to jihad.

Then in 2000 Hillary got a $50,000 contribution from the American Muslim Association that somehow or other got listed as the "American Museum Association," and by the time they discovered what it was and she had to give back the money, it was a week before election day and she couldn't use soft money, anyway.

COLMES: By the way, Dick, let me just...

MORRIS: Now those connections to terrorists are a whole lot more significant than Barack Obama's connection with Ayers.

COLMES: Well, let me point out to you the June 11th, 1999 Jewish Daily Forward reported the New World Foundation granted funds to something called Grassroots International which in turn funneled money to two PLO affiliated groups, and Hillary Clinton says the grant was made for $10,000 to Grassroots International for a specific project in South Africa.

If money was diverted, she didn't know anything about it, and you know, it was at least one or two steps removed here. You're drawing a parallel line here which does not exist.

MORRIS: Well, let's add that to the list of the things Hillary didn't know about, that her brothers were being paid to get pardons out of her husband, that her husband pardoned the Puerto Rican terrorists and the FLAN, as well as the whole litany of things that Hillary has been involved in.

My point is that we are not talking here about families whose kids played together or an association with somebody who was a terrorist 40 years ago. We're talking about her being involved with terrorist organizations and their thinking highly enough of her...

HANNITY: Hey, Dick.

MORRIS: give her $50,000 for her campaign. That's what I'm talking about. And by the way, this information is available on my Web site,

HANNITY: No, it is. And I read your column. What did you think of McCain's answer?

MORRIS: I think that Obama has a lot of explaining to do, and when we get to the general election and it's Obama against McCain, I'm going to have a lot more to say on it, but tomorrow it's Obama against Hillary. And you have one guy who you tie into terrorism by an arm's length association and another person that got a $50,000 contribution from a terrorist organization in the hopes that she could get elected to the United States Senate.

And by the way Aaron Klein at World Net has a wonderful book called "Smooching with Terrorists," where he interviewed the terrorists personally and found they are supporting Hillary Clinton for president.

HANNITY: Let me move on then and ask you about this. Hillary Clinton's internals as The Drudge Repor" pointed out today — that they feels they're up by 11. I would argue that based on the intensity of Barack Obama's attacks against Hillary this weekend that they think they're down.

How much does she have to win by for her to be successful?

MORRIS: Well, Sean, she could win by a hundred points and she wouldn't be successful. If she wins by 10 or 11, she'll hail that as a great victory, but think about it. There are 188 delegates in Pennsylvania. If she wins by 10, she's going to get 19 more delegates than Obama got. It's proportional representation, and that means that instead of his leading by 161 in elected delegates, he'll lead by142, and two weeks later you have Indiana and North Carolina where independents can vote.

Independents can't vote in Pennsylvania. And because Obama's lead is mainly among independents, he'll beat her in those primaries and probably win back the same 19 delegates that he might lose tomorrow.

HANNITY: All right.

MORRIS: So, no matter how you slice it, Hillary is going to go into that convention triple digits behind Obama in elected delegates, and that's going to make all the difference in the world. If Hillary gets a new lease on life tomorrow, it's a two-week lease.

HANNITY: Well, it's still going to be a matter of time. What do you make of the fact that Hillary took a shot at, and that got back to MoveOn, and they weren't happy about it, and similarly Michael Moore called Hillary disgusting? What do you make of that? Does that hurt her?

MORRIS: Well, I think that he's hurting her on the left. I was appalled, Sean, during that Philadelphia debate when Hillary Clinton suggested that she would go to a nuclear war to defend the city of Dubai and United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

What happened was that Stephanopoulos asked Obama, "Would you go to nuclear war to support Israel if Iran bombed Israel with nukes." And he said yes. And then Hillary said yes, but I would also expand our retaliatory protection to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, where Dubai is located, and Kuwait.

Now what she's literally saying is these anti-Israel, anti-Semitic governments that are among the most repressive on the planet are so deserving of our support that she would even risk retaliation against the United States. She would trade New York for Dubai.

HANNITY: All right, Dick.

MORRIS: And I wonder if that's what Dubai got for the $15 million bucks they paid Bill.

HANNITY: All right. More with Dick. More is coming up right after the break.



ANNOUNCER: It's the toughest job in the world. You need to be ready for anything, especially now with two wars, oil prices skyrocketing, and an economy in crisis. Harry Truman said it best, "If you can't stand the HEAT, get out of the kitchen."


HANNITY: That was a new campaign ad from Hillary Clinton and it seems like another attempt by the former first lady to play up her supposed foreign policy experience. And we continue now with former Clinton adviser Dick Morris.

You know what? This was a good ad because that ad was in response to Senator Obama whining and complaining that George Stephanopoulos and Charlie Gibson's questions were too hard. Do you like that ad?

MORRIS: Yes, I do, except you know what I think Obama should do. He should go back with the ad where the red phone rings at 3:00 in the morning, and a woman should answer it and say, "Just a minute. Hey, Bill, it's for you."

HANNITY: You know, you just. I think he's [Alan Colmes] right. You never let up.

COLMES: Finally.

HANNITY: Well, I mean...

MORRIS: That was the basic point, Sean, is this woman has no experience. She talks about being on the economic — about the economy and able to handle the problems of the economy. She never attended a meeting of the Economic Advisory Council except as an invited guest.


MORRIS: She had nothing to do with the energy policy of the administration. I mean my wife Eileen said it best. She said Bill — Hillary Clinton was there for eight years, and so was the White House pastry chef.

HANNITY: Well, that's actually a pretty good line.

Howard Dean is scared to death that, you know, with — that so many in the polls, Democrats, want this fight to go on, he wants these superdelegates to announce who they're going to vote for. Do you think it's dangerous if this goes to the convention?

MORRIS: Yes, lethal for the Democrats if it goes to the convention, particularly if Hillary in effect steals it after Obama won a plurality of the elected delegates. But what I think is going to happen, Sean, is I think that Obama — Hillary will do well in Pennsylvania, Obama will do well in Indiana and North Carolina. Hillary will win Kentucky and West Virginia. Obama will win Oregon, and by the time everything's said and done, Obama on June 3rd, the last date, will have about 150 delegates. Then I think Dean and Gore and Pelosi and...

HANNITY: They'll all tell her to get out.

MORRIS: ...Edwards are all — no, they're going to tell her to get out. They're going to tell the superdelegates make up your minds...


MORRIS: the next 10 days.

HANNITY: All right. But now.

MORRIS: And that will put Obama over 202.5 and Hillary will then have to get.

HANNITY: Right. No, I agree with that. But the new narrative has emerged, Barack Obama, the one hopeful optimistic, new changed politician, the perceptions of him have changed because of the revelations in the last six weeks. Is he now the weaker candidate? I believe he is.

MORRIS: I would have to say right now he is the weaker candidate because — Hillary does have a point which is she's been so mendacious in the past that we know all of the rotten things about her, whereas Obama...

COLMES: You're unbelievable, Dick.

HANNITY: No, let him talk.

COLMES: You're unbelievable.

HANNITY: That was great. Keep going.

MORRIS: So I think that ultimately Obama would be the weaker of the two candidates.

COLMES: Right. That's the nicest thing you've ever said about Hillary. But let me, look we only have a second left here. Look, John Hume, former member of parliament, architect of the Good Friday Agreement, says he's surprised anyone would suggest Hillary Clinton didn't perform important foreign policy work. You, on this show last time you're on, basically called her a communist, yet in rewriting history, you said Hillary was no communist nor should her work for the law firm as an intern or as a student imply that she was.

Tonight, you've practically called her a terrorist sympathizer. How could you possibly have worked for such a horrible human being, Dick, as Hillary Clinton? How could you have worked with such a terrible person?

MORRIS: Well, let's go back to — John Hume. I'm a friend of John Hume's, Nobel Prize winner, and when I vacation in Ireland, he lives right nearby and we frequently, three or four times, had dinner together. On one of those occasions Hillary was in Ireland, and Bill was in Ireland. They were giving separate speeches in separate venues, and he and I talked at length about Bill Clinton's enormously important contribution to the Irish peace process, and the man said not word one about Hillary, and she was giving a speech less than 50 miles from where we were sitting having dinner.

Now as to the point that you're making there, I did not know when I worked for Bill Clinton in '95 and '96 that I — that would mean I'd have to support his heirs and assigns.

COLMES: But you praise her in all your books. You praise her (INAUDIBLE) oval office.

MORRIS: I think Hillary Clinton is not qualified as Bill Clinton was qualified to be president.

COLMES: You even praised her in "Rewriting History."

MORRIS: I think that Hillary Clinton is not qualified as Bill Clinton was qualified to be president, and I didn't work for Hillary Clinton, I worked for Bill Clinton, and the last I checked, that was the name on the ballot in 1996 that I worked for.

COLMES: By the way, John Hume says "I can state from firsthand experience she played a positive role helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland." But maybe didn't want to share that with you. I don't know.

MORRIS: Yes. And she forgot to mention it in her memoir. She talks about how she was presented with a teapot by the Irish women...

COLMES: I think John Hume was not.

MORRIS: ...and Bill doesn't mention it.

COLMES: All right.

MORRIS: And Hume didn't mention it.

COLMES: Well, he mentioned it there. I just told you what he said. But Dick, thank you very much.

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