This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," March 13, 2007, that has been edited for clarity.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Will Howard K. Stern be ordered to provide a DNA sample? Joining us, Ron Rale, the lawyer who represented Anna Nicole, and James Neavitt, a lawyer for Howard K. Stern. Welcome to both of you.
Ron, I'm still — I'm a little bit perplexed tonight why a DNA sample would be asked for from Howard K. Stern, when it's the baby that needs to provide the DNA so we can make some determination. I'll ask Larry's lawyer, but any thoughts why Howard K. Stern's DNA is wanted?
RON RALE, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH: Oh, that's a good question because they had never requested it before. And in fact, they don't need Howard's DNA to determine if Larry Birkhead is the father. So that's a good question.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, what is the status of the paternity contest?
JAMES NEAVITT, ATTORNEY FOR HOWARD K. STERN: Well, today we had a hearing on Mr. Birkhead's request to join Howard in the proceedings. The court denied that motion because he didn't do it procedurally correctly, and also, he didn't have necessary jurisdiction over the party.
The thing that also happened is the court — and I want to make sure you understand this — the court did find the case that he believes gives him the power on his own without a motion to join my client and he has — the court's given us two weeks to brief that issue. And then we get into all the issues after that, if we are joined, into the jurisdiction of whether this case should be abated for the purposes of letting the Bahamas do the job that they're already set for to do.
VAN SUSTEREN: Ron, let me square this up a little bit. Do you still represent only the estate of Anna Nicole and Jim represents Howard K. Stern, or are you also now representing Howard K. Stern?
RALE: Greta, I have never represented Howard. I represented Anna. And I'm kind of in limbo-land, where these courts in different jurisdictions are wanting to hear from me kind of as a friend of the court. But I am a successor executor of Anna's estate, and maybe at some point, I may be called in to play in that capacity. But I don't represent Howard. Howard's a friend of mine and — but I've not represented him in any of these proceedings so far.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, I imagine this litigation is tough on your client.
NEAVITT: Yes, I mean, I — I deal with the legal parts of it, and Ron actually has the personal contact with Howard. They're friends. And you know, it is a difficult thing for him. He'd like to get this thing over with. And Ron can tell you about the attempts he's made in good faith to get this litigation over and get it resolved immediately.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, let me ask the question, then, that I'm sort of leading up to. It's a very simple one. The pain of this whole litigation between Larry Birkhead and Howard K. Stern on the issue of paternity is so easily done if they simply agree to have that baby tested for DNA. Ron, why not do that and forget all this discussion of settlement or litigation or whatever, just test the baby?
RALE: I mean, Greta, I think that we discussed this after your last show that I was on. But you know, forget about what happened prior to Anna Nicole's death. Unfortunately, you know, I had — well, we discussed this. You know, I had stopped the test on January 23, but...
VAN SUSTEREN: But why not — let me...
RALE: ... after Anna Nicole...
VAN SUSTEREN: But just why not just do the test? It's been...
RALE: Right. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: ... we are at a kidnapping (ph) point, maybe. Maybe it's a kidnapping point.
RALE: It's very simple. Either you're talking settlement or you're talking court. In Florida...
VAN SUSTEREN: No, it's not. That's not true. You just — you know what you could do, all of you? You could simply — because the baby can't leave the Bahamas, it's under a court order, is you could simply invite an expert. You could agree on an expert, you and Debra Opri and Larry Birkhead and Howard, bring the expert down, do a swab of the baby's cheek under standard conditions and do a DNA test, and it's over.
RALE: There are no settlement discussions. Debra Opri — you can talk to her yourself...
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm not talking settlement.
RALE: She said that...
VAN SUSTEREN: She wouldn't agree to that...
RALE: Well, how are you going to facilitate this? You have to facilitate it. Either you're talking settlement or you're talking court.
NEAVITT: Right.
RALE: If we're talking settlement, she's nixed that. She says that's not going to happen. It would have happened in Florida. They were talking. I'm not going to divulge what was the nature of their settlement discussions. That's privileged. But the parties were talking. They booted me out of my hotel room. They were talking. I didn't even know they were coming. I was — I had my pants on, left the room, OK? But they were talking settlement.
The next day, we're having a hearing in Florida. I told Debra Opri, I said, Look, these guys want to talk settlement. Let's get out of the picture. She said, Oh, fine, we're not doing anything at this hearing other than collecting Anna's DNA that was, you know, taken from Anna.
VAN SUSTEREN: But Ron — all right, let me...
RALE: But then, sure enough...
VAN SUSTEREN: Wouldn't your friend and Jim's client agree to this: A swab is done of that child in a standard lab that you both agree on, and if that swab turns out that the DNA is consistent with the DNA of Larry Birkhead, that the child simply be turned over to the natural father of the child of 6 months old? Would your client agree to that?
NEAVITT: Greta, if you want to mediate between Debra Opri and us and have a settlement conference, I'm sure that would work. I've...
VAN SUSTEREN: Is — is that something you would agree to?
NEAVITT: As of today, I walked up to her...
(CROSSTALK)
NEAVITT: ... sit down and try to settle this case. There's two ways to deal with it. Either sit down and settle, or let's go to court.
RALE: And Greta, you have to remember...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Would you agree to that? Because I'm going to have Debra Opri on in a second, and I'll ask her. Would you agree to that?
NEAVITT: To sit down with her and you and let's try to settle this case?
VAN SUSTEREN: No. No, no.
NEAVITT: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: No, would you agree to picking a standard lab, doing a DNA swab, if the DNA turns out to be Larry's, the baby gets turned over to Larry immediately. If it turns out to be Howard, Howard keeps the baby.
RALE: Let's talk — you know, if we're going to talk turkey about settlement, let's talk about it this way. We've had hearings basically every week since Anna Nicole passed away. They've got to push off their hearings. If they're going to put a gun to our head and say, You're going to court...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: It's in the best interests of the child
RALE: ... how are we going to sit down to the — it's like sitting down at a table with terrorists. You got to...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: But wait a second, Ron — Ron, all we want to do — all anyone wants to do, whether it's viewers, judges, anybody, is to determine the father of that child. That child is 6 months old.
RALE: Right. Greta, it's...
VAN SUSTEREN: And a DNA test...
RALE: ... so simple...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... will do that.
RALE: It's so simple. Greta, I hate to, you know, talk over you, but it's so simple. In your practice of law, when you practiced law, I don't know if you were on the civil side, but if you're going to talk settlement, in my 19 years — it's been 19 years — you know, if the parties are going to settle, you push off the litigation. You don't sit there and try to talk settlement with a gun to your head.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know...
RALE: You push off the litigation...
VAN SUSTEREN: You know what, though?
RALE: ... and then we talk. If they want to go to court...
VAN SUSTEREN: You don't even have to — you don't even need...
RALE: ... it's a different story.
VAN SUSTEREN: You don't even need Debra Opri or anybody.
RALE: But you go to understand...
VAN SUSTEREN: You can first go make the determination of whether your client is the father or not.
RALE: There's a lot more to it.
VAN SUSTEREN: If your client...
RALE: Greta...
VAN SUSTEREN: If your client...
RALE: Greta, there's a lot more to it than...
VAN SUSTEREN: If your client's not the father...
RALE: Greta, there's so much more to it. When you're going to talk settlement, there are so many issues involved. It's not just who's the biological father. There's so many issues involved. And if you want to talk settlement...
VAN SUSTEREN: Like what?
RALE: ... if you're serious, then you push off...
VAN SUSTEREN: What other issues?
RALE: ... court hearings. You push off court hearings. I'm not going to go through...
VAN SUSTEREN: What are the other issues?
RALE: ... them. We don't have time to talk about it.
VAN SUSTEREN: There is no other issue.
RALE: There's issues — no — well, you don't know that much about paternity.
NEAVITT: Safety of the child.
RALE: Paternity is more than just the biological father, and if you want to...
VAN SUSTEREN: If that — if Larry Birkhead is the father, then Larry Birkhead has all the financial responsibility for that child, takes all the responsibilities of that child. It's — I mean, it isn't that complicated.
RALE: Greta, you probably haven't practiced in the area of family law, but there's more to it than just who's the biological father. And if you're going to talk settlement, you need time to lay all the issues on the table. It could be — in one day — it could be a couple days. But you certainly can't do it when you have deadlines, court filings and all of that going on. It's bad blood. Nobody does that. In my experience, when you're talking settlement and if the parties want to talk, they talk. Get the lawyers out of it. There should be no reason why the parties can't get together.
In fact, there is a letter from Larry's Bahamian counsel to Howard's Bahamian counsel saying, You better not contact my client at all. Debra Opri is going to get on here and say, well, you know, Howard's a lawyer and Larry's not. But that's a bunch of nonsense because...
VAN SUSTEREN: She's tough. Look, I...
RALE: ... ultimately, the lawyers — the lawyers have to sanction the final settlement. Let the parties talk. We shouldn't be there. There shouldn't be lawyers involved.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I will say...
RALE: I don't care what you say.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I will say, Ron, I know Debra. and she's coming up soon. She's probably here. I know she's tough to deal with, and I'm going to give her an equally a hard time.
RALE: She's not. I mean, we can deal with her. It's not that. It's just — it's very simple. Ask her the question, Why don't all the lawyers postpone the hearings? What's the emergency? You know, Howard was reaching out. This was before we went to court in Florida, and they lost. But Howard was reaching out. And I'm sure Howard's still willing to reach out. But if you're going to sit there and say, you know, Do this, do that...
VAN SUSTEREN: You know what? I don't buy it. Ron, I just don't buy it.
RALE: OK, but you don't have to.
VAN SUSTEREN: I just don't buy it. I know.
RALE: It's very simple. It's very simple. When you want to talk settlement, good faith, you don't do it with court hearings over your...
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think it's — I don't think it's — I don't think settlement is the issue. I think paternity is. I think that's where everybody starts, is who's the father...
RALE: That's what we're talking about. We're talking about...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... of the baby, who's the father...
RALE: ... settlement of the paternity.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Ron, James, thank you both. I hope you will come back, even though this got a little heated.
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