Transcript: NOW President Kim Gandy Talks with O'Reilly

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," Jan. 27, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Unresolved Problem" Segment, will President Bush ever be accepted by those who opposed his reelection? The answer, of course, is no on many fronts.

Joining us now from Washington is the president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy.

I bet you were appalled, weren't you, last November? First of all, did you think that President Bush was going to win?

KIM GANDY, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR WOMEN: No, I — actually, I didn't think he was going to win. I was very surprised.

O'REILLY: And were you angry after he won?

GANDY: I think I was more frustrated than angry...

O'REILLY: OK.

GANDY: ... and concerned. I'm the mother of young children, and I am concerned for their future. I'm very worried.

O'REILLY: All mothers and all fathers are concerned for their children. Certainly, we respect that.

The National Organization for Women — I have your research here. It looks to me like you have no conservative or traditional positions at all. Would that be wrong to say?

GANDY: Well, it depends on what you consider traditional. I think I'm...

O'REILLY: Well, give me one. Give me one.

GANDY: I'm a pretty traditional person. I grew up in Bossier City, Louisiana (search), spent the first 33 years of my life in the Deep South, and I think I'm a pretty traditional person. We believe in...

O'REILLY: All right, but do you...

GANDY: ... the basic values of family and taking care of each other and the — what you would call Christian values of taking care of the of least these.

O'REILLY: OK, but I don't know of any public policy initiative on the conservative side that NOW supports. Is there one?

GANDY: I can't think of too many that would be called by today's — conservative.

O'REILLY: All right. So then it would be fair to say that you are...

GANDY: But traditional and conservative, I think, are two very different things.

O'REILLY: Yes, there's a difference. Yes, you're right. You're right about that. There is a difference. And I'm a traditionalist, and that's why these pinheads can't figure that out.

GANDY: I think I am, too.

O'REILLY: Well, I'm — and I'm — but what I'm saying to you is, in a public policy arena, the National Organization for Women is decidedly a liberal group at this point in time. I think that's fair to say.

GANDY: I think that we are perceived that way, and, certainly, as it is now, we probably do fall into that category...

O'REILLY: OK. All right.

GANDY: ... because things are moving in a different direction.

O'REILLY: So — because that's — we want everybody to know who we're talking to. Now let's get...

GANDY: Sure.

O'REILLY: Let's get to your beefs with President Bush. Predictable. You want judges that would uphold Roe v. Wade. Obviously, you would want that. But this is interesting. You're pro-choice on abortion, but you're not pro-choice on Social Security. Isn't that interesting?

GANDY: Well, they're two very different issues. Choice is, I think, a misnomer as applied to Social Security. Social Security is a social insurance program. It's a security program.

O'REILLY: Well, what if I don't want it?

GANDY: It...

O'REILLY: What if I don't want it. Don't I — shouldn't I have the choice to say I'd rather be in charge of my security than the government?

GANDY: Well, that's...

O'REILLY: Shouldn't I have the choice to do that?

GANDY: That's easy to say, but, in your old age when you're on the street and looking for somebody to provide for your support, somebody is going to have to step forward and do that. I think it's better that we all together provide for our retirement security. Social Security is not just about retirement.

O'REILLY: OK, but you're taking away my...

GANDY: Remember that Social Security is about disability...

O'REILLY: You're taking away my choice. You're taking away...

GANDY: ... disability and life insurance...

O'REILLY: Well, look, you're taking away my choice.

GANDY: ... Which most people don't have and can't afford.

O'REILLY: You're taking away my — well, those people can stay in the current system, and I would respect that. But if I want to be bold, why can't I have the choice to do that?

GANDY: Well, why can't you have the choice not to pay taxes? I mean, why can't you have the choice to have to build your own road if you want to...

O'REILLY: I still would have to pay my...

GANDY: ... or build your own park if you want to have a park.

O'REILLY: I can build my own park, and I can build my own road, and I would still have to pay the payroll tax. All right. It's just that portion of the payroll tax would go to me rather than the big government. See, look, I just can't understand your philosophy on this.

GANDY: But it does go to you.

O'REILLY: You should be pro-choice about everything because it's individual choice.

GANDY: Well, fortunately, you don't get to decide what our position is.

O'REILLY: No, that's true.

GANDY: Our position is that...

O'REILLY: Fortunately.

GANDY: ... women have the most to lose if Social Security is privatized. We are at greatest risk...

O'REILLY: Why? Women aren't as smart as men in investing?

GANDY: ... of poverty in our retirement. We are at greatest risk of poverty in our retirement because we have smaller incomes due to pay inequity and time out of the workforce often caring for children and elders.

O'REILLY: Well, then they should stay in the system.

All right. But you did — you're...

GANDY: Now I think that would be a conservative point of view.

O'REILLY: You're depriving women of choice. You're depriving them of choice here. And I'm not going to be like Larry Summers and say, oh, well, you don't think women are as good investors as men. See, I would never do that.

GANDY: Good.

O'REILLY: OK. Now you don't want any more tax cuts, right. You want more taxes. More taxes are good, you think, for the economy and everything for everybody?

GANDY: Well, you know, you bring up Social Security. The whole reason they're talking about privatizing Social Security is because George Bush gave away more money than would have been taken to make the system solvent into the next two centuries.

O'REILLY: No, he'd to have raise payroll taxes. As you know, only the payroll tax...

GANDY: Not at all.

O'REILLY: Only the payroll tax goes into the Social Security fund, as you know.

GANDY: You would not — you would not have to do that at all. If you took just the tax cuts to the top 1 percent, people making $370,000 a year or more, just the people making $370,000 a year or more, the tax cuts that went to just that group...

O'REILLY: Ms. Gandy, you're...

GANDY: ... would be enough to completely ensure the solvency of the Social Security system.

O'REILLY: I know I'm not as smart as you, but I think you're wrong here. The payroll tax wasn't cut, all right. The payroll tax wasn't touched. It's still the same as it was when Bush got in...

GANDY: Other taxes were cut that...

O'REILLY: ... and that's what goes into Social Security.

GANDY: ... and that money was taken out of general revenues.

O'REILLY: No, no. But other taxes doesn't go — Ms. Gandy, with all due respect, other taxes don't go into the Social Security fund. They go for other reasons.

GANDY: But they go into the general revenue.

O'REILLY: So does — yes. So it doesn't make any difference. It's the payroll tax which has been looted from every president from JFK on. That's why we don't have the money we should.

GANDY: And the politicians need to keep their hands out of it and...

O'REILLY: That's right! I agree with you!

GANDY: We agree on that, and what they've looted...

O'REILLY: Common ground!

GANDY: What they've looted they need to put back...

O'REILLY: Right.

GANDY: ... and giving a tax cut when they should have been putting that money back into the Social Security system was a bad decision on the part of the administration...

O'REILLY: OK. But, Ms. Gandy, if you raise...

GANDY: ... and a bad decision...

O'REILLY: ... taxes, you're going to hurt the economy. Fewer people will work, and then fewer people...

GANDY: Those people making $400,000 a year...

O'REILLY: ... will be paying the payroll tax.

GANDY: ... are not going to feel it.

O'REILLY: No, but you're going to hurt the economy.

GANDY: You — you would be the only one in this discussion who would suffer from that.

O'REILLY: Well, Ms. Gandy, I'm the only one in the discussion who deserves that kind of an income. You know that. Thank you.

GANDY: I — well, no argument there.

O'REILLY: All right. You don't want — you don't want — you want gay marriage, right?

GANDY: Oh, I absolutely think that...

O'REILLY: You've got to have that, right?

GANDY: I've been married 15 years myself, and I think that two people who...

O'REILLY: But you're not gay.

GANDY: ... love each other ought to be able to get married.

O'REILLY: You aren't gay, are you?

GANDY: It wouldn't matter if I was.

O'REILLY: No, but you've been married to a guy, right?

GANDY: Well, I guess I gave that away, didn't I? Yes.

O'REILLY: You're married to a guy, right?

GANDY: Yes, I am.

O'REILLY: OK. All right. So you want gay marriage. Now is this important to NOW, to have gay marriage? Is that like a big thing?

GANDY: I think it's important for people in this country not to be discriminated against and to have the ability to be married to a person that they love. I think that's a basic...

O'REILLY: All right.

GANDY: That's a basic human right.

O'REILLY: Well, we appreciate you coming on. I think everybody knows where NOW stands, and we all want clarity above everything else, Ms. Gandy. It's a pleasure to talk with you this evening.

GANDY: I'm sure.

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