• With: Sen. Lindsey Graham

    This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," October 25, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

    GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: The secretary says she doesn't work for you. At least not for you, if you are seeking to tell her to step down.

    Senator Lindsey Graham joins us.

    Good evening, sir.

    SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Good evening.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Your thoughts tonight about Secretary Sebelius' statement --

    (LAUGHER)

    VAN SUSTEREN: -- a rather clumsy statement at best?

    GRAHAM: She made a bad situation worse. I think the last thing she wants to try to suggest to people is that she is not accountable for the product under her command.

    But, at the end of the day, let's don't get so fixated on the website as to realize, never forget that the product that they are trying to sell is worse than the website.

    But here is an idea. To the 11 contractors, whatever number, in charge of, you know, formulating the website, should you really get paid?

    VAN SUSTEREN: Well, are they going to get paid? Is there anyone going to do anything about paying them? According to their testimony yesterday, at least the four main ones, they said that they have done their job. It was the government that didn't test it.

    (LAUGHTER)

    GRAHAM: Well, at the end of the day, their product doesn't work. The people in charge of the contractors obviously failed to oversee, you know, how this thing was going to roll out.

    But where was the president in all of this? He is a pretty absent guy when he is need the most. Why -- if you were president and this is your signature issue, Greta, wouldn't you call people in six months ago and say all right, give me an update, primetime rollout is coming here in a few months? Tell me how this is working, show me how it works, so we are ready for prime time? The president has been such a distant leader on so much issues but particularly this one.

    VAN SUSTEREN: What do you make of the fact that -- you talk about the president? He said he was mad on Monday when he spoke about it.

    (LAUGHER)

    And then he directs someone else -- someone who used to be director of OMB to step up and take over it. Is he big-footing Secretary Sebelius out of a job, number one? Number two, he has appointed someone who is not a computer expert. I guess the person is not going to be programming the computers but an economic expert. And then that person comes out today and promised us November 30th is the day it's going to all work.

    GRAHAM: Well, number one, he is mad. But what did he do to ensure that the product, the website would be up and running, you know, when it was supposed to? It's not like this just snuck up on us. They had three years to get ready for this thing.

    Number one, Mr. President, who did you talk to a couple of months ago. And if you are going to put somebody else new in charge, what about the person who used to be in charge? Why wouldn't you fire that person? Nobody seems to get -- the only person that's been fired is the person that talked to Sean Hannity. That's just not right.

    VAN SUSTEREN: I just don't get it though. It's just beyond me. I really can't believe they didn't test this. Even when we launch this new show --

    GRAHAM: Unbelievable.

    VAN SUSTEREN: -- the day before we sat on the set and went through the traps to make sure it would be right. I mean, how does this even happen? I mean, I have never heard of anything like it.

    GRAHAM: Well, how does the president of the United States not ask questions and get a demonstration himself, because this is his signature issue?

    I have been home in South Carolina for a week. I have never seen business people so confused, frustrated and angry. It's just not about the website. The website is the debacle. But the product they are trying to sell is driving up premiums for businesses in South Carolina two and three times. It's going to be a nightmare for the economy. It's going to kill jobs at a time we need to create jobs.

    So when the president suggests the website is a problem but the product itself is working nicely. Mr. President, you don't know any more about the product than you do the website. If you had asked any business person about how ObamaCare is actually going to work, you would call a time-out.

    Has the president set down with business people, people who own fast- food restaurants and walked through what they have to walk through? Does he have any idea what business people are facing? Has he had anybody tell him how it works in the real world? I doubt it. You know what you should do? You should have business people come on your show, and for five minutes, walk through with you and your audience what they are having to try to figure out. It will blow your mind.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Well, we have a tester on, someone who has tested the website, and who goes a little bit deeper. It's sort of shocking --

    (CROSSTALK)

    GRAHAM: Forget about -- the web --

    VAN SUSTEREN: But --

    GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.

    VAN SUSTEREN: I know. I know --

    (CROSSTALK)

    GRAHAM: But the product itself.

    VAN SUSTEREN: And I totally understand it. But, let me ask you, should Secretary Sebelius resign or be fired? And before you answer it, how do we know that it isn't just the Republicans being political and trying to give the president a hard time? How do we know if it's a political or if it's a smart answer?

    (LAUGHTER)

    GRAHAM: Well, somebody should be held accountable for not having the website up and running in a professional manner with a couple years' notice. It is her agency who is responsible for making sure the website works and the product is rolled out in an appropriate professional manner. If she is not subject to losing her job, who should? And at the end of the day, is it OK for nobody to be fired? Nobody has been found --

    (CROSSTALK)