Rubio: Senate impeachment trial of Trump is going to hurt America

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Rubio: Senate impeachment trial of Trump is going to hurt America

Florida Republican stands by comments that impeaching the ex-president is unconstitutional on 'Your World'

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto" January 26, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  All right, thank you, Trace, very, very
much.

We are just getting word right now that President Biden, when he addresses
the nation later this hour, will outline a plan to get more vaccines in
Americans' hands, or at least their arms, by next month, up to 10 to 15,
maybe 17 percent more.

That's coming to us via AP. But, again, it could confirm some of the
optimism we were seeing telegraphed at today's press conference in which
the administration talked optimistically about getting back to maybe a
million-and-a-half doses a day, which would be about 150 million doses
within the first 100 days, now, what about 95 days.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World."

My thanks to my buddy Charles Payne for doing such a great job in my
absence.

Let's get to the matter at hand, the encouraging news on COVID. I know it's
been a while since you heard that. But we should point out that, in a
number of states across the country, they are easing things up a little bit
in California, New York, and New Jersey, and that on signs that at least
seven-day averages for COVID cases have markedly improved,
hospitalizations, for example, in the latest week down 7.5 percent.

And reason enough for the governors of California and New York and New
Jersey to consider efforts now to reopen their economies and their states.
Now, there might be politics at play here. We will get into that in just a
second. We will explore it in a lot more detail with Senator Mark Warner,
Democratic man that runs, of course, the Senate Intelligence Committee.

This is on the same day that a formal single article impeachment has been
raised in the United States Senate. Now they take it up in a couple of
weeks time. Also, fair and balanced, Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican
senator, who says this whole process is a waste of time.

A fair-and-balanced view from both men on this historic day.

Now let's go to Jackie DeAngelis on this change in economic behavior in
three crucial states, and it all concerns a COVID turnaround, I guess, huh?

JACKIE DEANGELIS, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT:  Good afternoon, Neil. That's
right.

Well, COVID restrictions are easing across the country, specifically in
some of the blue states where they were the most strict, right here in New
York, Governor Andrew Cuomo saying that some restrictions could be lifted
as soon as late this week, no specifics on what we can expect exactly.

And it could be different in the city vs. the rest of the state. But the
governor did tweet that the positive rate has dropped to 5.47 percent. But
while declining, that's still high on a relative basis. Look at this chart.
The seven-day average of new cases and deaths, it is down, but still well
above where we were at the end of last year.

Now, in California, Governor Gavin Newsom finally lifting stay-at-home
orders for all parts of the state, including hard-hit Southern California,
which was suffering from record low intensive care capacity. The reasoning
behind this shift is interesting, projections that ICU demand will drop.

A reporter press Newsom on this, saying that some are arguing the timing of
all this is arbitrary and convenient. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA):  That's just complete, utter nonsense.

So, let's just dispense with that fundamental, foundationally, nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEANGELIS:  Now, in New Jersey, Governor Murphy also quietly easing some
restrictions, making it easier for schools to stay open, saying this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ):  We think we're plateauing right now between now
and early February. If that turns out to be the case, and we can control
the variants that are coming through, and make sure we keep our basic stuff
in place, like social distancing face coverings, I think we can.

I think, sooner than later, we can at least take some modest steps in that
direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEANGELIS:  And there are a few other things to consider as well, Neil. New
variants of the virus are highly transmissible and they are causing greater
sickness than the first time around.

And there's one camp saying that the easing of restrictions in these states
is not based on a brighter picture, per se, but it's bogged down in
politics.

CAVUTO:  All right, Jackie, thank you very much for that, Jackie DeAngelis.

To Ashley Dawn Flowers, who no doubt, no doubt is saying. Governor Newsom
out in California, what took you so long? Her Insignia Hair Salon, she's
the manager there, it's been stuck in park while the governor has all but
shut down the state.

So, Ashley, now what do you think? He's sending signals that things will
start reopening up? Have you have gotten the word how this impacts you?

ASHLEY DAWN FLOWERS, INSIGNIA HAIR SALON:  Well, we were told yesterday
that we could open up.

And it was one of those things that they said we can open up right now. And
so we were able to call clients and have them come in. It's just rather
ironic. The timing is just -- you can't help but look at the timing and
wonder, so -- in the midst of the recall.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  Is it your sense of -- are you wondering about the recall effort?
You think that had something to do with it?

FLOWERS:  Yes, absolutely.

I mean, there is not a single person in California that I know that has not
heard about the recall efforts and -- or been pro-recall.

CAVUTO:  When you say you can open up now and you did yesterday, what kind
of safeguards do you have to keep in place? How many customers can you
allow in, the whole distancing thing, everything else?

FLOWERS:  We are at 25 percent capacity. We're still considered in the
purple tier, which is the most severe tier here in California.

And so we still have to take temperatures when people come in. We still
sanitize all of our equipment. And we still have the barriers between
clients when they're here, so, that way, there's no cross-contamination of
anything.

CAVUTO:  You know, the signs out of California, the governor's own recall
situation, I don't know where that stands right now. I know they're very
close to the 1.2 or 1.3 million signatures they would need to at least get
the ball rolling.

But having said that, they have seen noted improvement, I think, in all the
major counties in California. Are you convinced, your business
notwithstanding, that the worst is over for California?

FLOWERS:  I mean, I can definitely say that I hope that the third time's
the charm, because this is the third time they shut down our business. And
I hope that this is the last time.

So, I -- to say that we're out of the dark at this point is a hard thing to
say at this -- I feel like we can't trust our politicians at this point,
because they tell us one thing, but do another.

We are, as a business, getting informed as quickly as other consumers are,
with the news. We are told when we can shut down with the news. We are told
when we can open with the news. There's nothing that's coming down the --
that comes to us directly.

And so it's very difficult to make that determination to say we're out of
the dark at this point. But we can hope that this is the last time. We can
hope that these numbers are the last time that they skyrocket.

I certainly do hope that.

CAVUTO:  Yes, I can't blame you. Three times through this gets a little
repetitive.

Ashley Dawn Flowers, the Insignia Hair Salon manager in California, now
open for business, she hopes permanently.

Let's get the read on all of this from Dr. Amesh Adalja, the Johns Hopkins
senior scholar, infectious disease specialist.

Doctor, always good to have you.

This trend right now that's shown noted improvements in the number of
cases, indeed, the number of people who are diagnosed with a positive case,
has also ebbed a little bit. What do you think's going on behind the
scenes?

DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SOCIETY OF AMERICA:  I think we're
seeing a little bit of a plateauing right now, that people are getting
better at wearing face coverings. We have a vaccine rollout going where
you're seeing nursing home residents get highly vaccinated, at least better
than the general population, as well as just sort of the ebb and flow of
cases.

And it does -- initially, I thought that this wasn't going to be sustained.
I was worried it wouldn't be sustained. But it does look day after day that
we are seeing a real downtick in cases, a downtick in hospitalizations.

And I think that, when you think about public health measures, they always
have to be tied to metrics. This is something I have advocated since the
beginning. So I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with lifting
these types of restrictions. And I have never been in favor of blanket
restrictions.

And I always want them to be tied to real data. So I think that this is a
good sign. Hopefully, it sustains. Hopefully, the variants don't upend this
entire -- this break we're starting to see. But we're still at a very high
plateau. This pandemic is not over.

CAVUTO:  You know, Doctor -- and you have reported on this issue. It's that
final mile to get the vaccine out to the people who need it. When it's
distributed in the states, the real difficulty is getting it to people at
that final stretch.

The Biden administration is going to outline a plan, we're told, to up the
number of vaccine doses that will be available, maybe by double digits.
But, of course, it's not so much the increased number of vaccine doses, but
getting it to people, because there are far more doses on shelves, we're
told, than have gotten to people.

So, how do you correct for that?

ADALJA:  You have to really look at each state and see where they're
faltering.

Certain states, like North Dakota, West Virginia, they're doing really
well. But other states are not. So you have to figure out, is it because
they don't have enough people to vaccinate, is it because they don't have
enough places to vaccinate, and then really try and meet them where they
are, using FEMA, using the National Guard, using the expertise of the CDC
to try and scale this up.

I think that we really have to move to a situation where there's no speed
limit, there's no limit on the number of vaccines. We have to go as fast as
possible. We are literally erase with this virus and the variants of this
virus. And the quicker we can do this, the quicker this gets behind us.

And I think there can really be no excuses right now. We can't have
bickering between federal and the state governments. We just have to do it.

CAVUTO:  All right, we will watch very, very closely.

Dr. Adalja, very good catching up with you.

Just a reminder of what we have coming up for you on this broadcast, where
news is everything, and the only thing.

A fair and balanced read from a top Democrat, Senator Mark Warner, on what
he makes now of the impeachment push and trial that is on in the United
States Senate, albeit formally starting not until February 9, and then
another read from, well, Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican who says all
this is a waste of time.

What both men make of what's happening, on the same day Bernie Sanders,
another senator, is talking about the unequivocal push and the take-no-
prisoners position that Democrats will demand a $15 minimum wage, and that
is going to happen soon.

Will it? The fallout -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, we knew they would be good. We didn't have any idea
they would be this good.

Microsoft after the bell reporting earnings that blew away even the most
bullish estimates. The stock is soaring in after-hours trading right now,
with earnings a little bit more than $2 a share.

They were expecting about $1.64. But here's what's telling, revenue, in
other words, how much you're selling, how much you're churning out, north
of $43.08 billion. They were anticipating something in the vicinity of $40
billion.

As I said, this stock is jumping. This could be a precursor of things to
come. Remember, the big one to watch is Apple tomorrow. That could be the
first company in the history of this planet to have a $100 billion revenue
quarter, and potentially the best quarter in terms of making money that any
other company has ever experienced, ever.

That is the backdrop for an economy that might have its fits and starts,
but appears at its basic corporate foundation to be doing pretty well.

Bob Nardelli with us on that, the former Home Depot and Chrysler CEO.

Bob, I want to get into a lot more politics as well. But, on the numbers
that we're seeing from technology land, that's a good backdrop for a Biden
administration, is it not?

ROBERT NARDELLI, FORMER CHAIRMAN, PRESIDENT & CEO, HOME DEPOT:  It sure is,
Neil.

I mean, those are fantastic numbers you just reported for -- for Microsoft.
I think a lot of that, quite honestly, has been spurred by the pandemic, I
mean, the very fact that I'm sitting here in Atlanta and Skyping with you,
and it's not uncommon for a lot of us to be on four or five Zoom calls a
day or Team meetings or what have you.

So, I think the advances in technology have certainly benefited from a lot
of us being locked down, and not being able to travel. But good for them.
What a great job at Microsoft.

CAVUTO:  You know, I don't want to force words in his mouth, Bob, but
Bernie Sanders was -- has always been a champion of getting a $15 minimum
wage at a federal level, saying that corporate America can afford it.

You have always argued in the past, yes, that, for every Microsoft and
Apple and some of these guys that pay well north of the minimum wage
regardless, you have small businesses that are just now stumbling out of
this pandemic, and in a world of hurt.

So, what do you think now with this push to make it national, to make it
federal, and to do it now?

NARDELLI:  Yes.

Well, Neil, it's a -- this is a conversation we have had many times over
and over again, haven't we? And then, if you look at the two sectors, both
federal, and if you look at the state level, I mean, at the federal level,
every decision like this has pros and cons and consequences.

So, if you're going to be fiscally responsible and maintain a budget to try
and get the debt down, then you may force yourself to cut other programs at
the federal level with wage -- to cover the wage increases.

At the state level, what we could see, Neil, is a return to offshoring vs.
offshoring to maintain a competitive position. We may see a reduction in
the amount of money that is spent on research and development, which could
impact our innovation as a country.

We just talked about I.T. I have seen this before personally, where you
reduce your I.T. budgets because you have a wage increase or some other
costs that offset it.

And then to your point specifically with small businesses, I deal a lot
with them now in my new role. And if you restrict their cash FLOWERS: 
because they're paying more for wages, it may restrict their ability to
grow and to be able to add and reinvest in various things.

So, my sense on this thing over the years, 50 years now, Neil, is that we
should let the market dictate this for retention. So, if you're having a
problem attracting, motivating and retaining a high-performance work force,
then you're going to pay more wages, you're going to do some things.

And I think, in today's market, the other thing that's different, Neil, is
that we hear a lot about purpose for a company, we hear a lot about
mission, we hear a lot about geography. So, a lot of workers today take
great gratification out of who they work for and job satisfaction.

So, I think those are the things we really need to think about going
forward, Neil, as we think about this $15 wage.

Here's a perfect example, if you really drill down. You have talked a lot
on your show about the restaurants and the hardship that they're going
through. Just think if the -- in this new legislation, if they exclude the
tax -- the tip consideration.

So, if you go to a restaurant now, as a customer, and you may not put that
20 percent tip anymore, because it won't be used to boost the average wages
for the servers that are in here.

CAVUTO:  Yes. Well, that's a fear. You're right. That's a fear for another
day. You're right. That's a legitimate concern right now.

But we will watch this very closely.

Bob Nardelli, thank you very, very much.

Again, the Biden administration wants that $15 minimum wage to be part of
that COVID stimulus plan. It's an uphill battle with Republicans, speaking
of which, we're going to be talking about the uphill battle that Democrats
have on their hand to try to impeach the former president of the United
States.

A whole bunch of Republicans just pushed an effort to drop the whole thing.
It didn't go into anywhere, but that could be signaling where this whole
thing is going, if you can't get Republicans on board with even the
procedure of a trial, and calling it a waste of time. That's the view of
Marco Rubio.

The view of Mark Warner, where it goes from here, as well -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, two senators with two very unique views on this
upcoming impeachment trial now slated for, well, February 8 in the United
States Senate.

Marco Rubio calling it a waste of time. Mark Warner says it's important
this time -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  He hopes -- and I will quote him
here -- "The Senate leadership will find a way to deal with their
constitutional responsibilities on impeachment, while also working on the
other urgent business of the nation."

He still continues to feel that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO:  All right, that is the old view that, of course, Congress can walk
and chew gum at the same time.

That's an argument that Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia, the Senate
Intelligence Committee incoming chairman, has long argued, that they can
get all this done and address some of the needs of the young Biden
administration, including getting confirmations done and maybe getting some
of that stimulus they want done as well.

Senator, very good to have you.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA):  Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO:  Are you worried about this Republican effort -- obviously, it
failed -- where all but five Republican senators were on board quashing
this thing and not letting it move forward?

That would seem to indicate that, now that it is moving forward, you could
have a devil of a time finding 17 Republican senators to convict the former
president of the United States.

WARNER:   I think -- tend to agree. It maybe uphill.

But I also think there is a constitutional responsibility here. There has
to be some level of accountability for not only what happened on January 6,
when, as we have discussed before, those thugs were all through the halls
of the Capitol, and we, frankly, gave a great gift, present to our
adversaries, particularly Vladimir Putin, images of those insurrectionists
undermining our democracy and the role that Donald Trump played.

But we have now got this additional story that maybe Mr. Trump was trying
to intervene with mid-level folks at the Justice Department. How many more
of those stories are going to come out between now and February 9?

And my hope will be that, by giving Mr. Trump time to get his legal defense
together, that people will come in and look at the facts. I'm anxious to
hear Mr. Trump's defense. I think, if there's a legitimate request for
witnesses, we ought to honor that.


But I do think, as much as we want to move to unity, I do think, as well,
we need to move for some level of accountability. And, as Mitt Romney said
-- and I know some of your viewers may not agree with Mitt Romney -- if
urging an overthrow of a duly constituted election is not an impeachable
offense, then what is?

CAVUTO:  Well, doesn't this really come to inciting an insurrection,
though? Whatever you make of whether the president pushed things too far,
that is to actually single-handedly incite an insurrection, which I believe
was the article at its core, that that's a pretty tough one, to remove a
former President Trump from even considering elective office down the road.

So, that's when I begin to wonder, is this really more political and a
chance for Democrats to get some good P.R. than to really get what they
want?

WARNER:  Well, Neil, if -- I'm not sure it's going to be necessarily good
P.R. if they don't get to 67 votes.

I mean, I know there are still some others and conversations going on about
whether there could be a censure or an article -- or -- I'm sorry -- the
14th Amendment provision that might have a lower bar. I think some of those
conversations are ongoing.

But I also think we ought to give the House the attempt to make the case.
We ought to give Donald Trump the attempt to put up a defense. We need to
see, as we have just seen in the last week, this story come up, and which
we don't know if it's true or not. But if this was a pattern of trying to
overthrow the election inappropriately by finding--

CAVUTO:  But do you worry, though, Senator? I see what you're saying.

But do you worry about the precedent it could set that, let's say you're in
the final month of a Biden administration, if he does something that the
other side deems to be untoward or dangerous, that this gets to be routine?

WARNER:  Well, but, Neil -- but, Neil, Neil, hold on.

CAVUTO:  Because, after all, if they don't have to be president to get
fingered, they could be -- they could be fingered long after they leave
office.

WARNER:  Neil, if -- if Joe Biden sends thousands of people to physically
attack the United States Capitol, with people trying to come in and,
frankly, cause bodily harm to Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi--

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  So, just so we understand, Senator, you have no doubt that
President -- that President Trump single-mindedly and purposely ordered an
attack on the United States Capitol?

That's what you're resting this whole thing on.

WARNER:  Well, no, what I'm -- what I'm saying, Neil, is that I want to
hear the House make that case.

I saw and heard Donald Trump's words. Neil, I was on the floor of the
Senate when the insurrectionists took over the Capitol of the United
States. I was there. So, at least that part of the action, a police officer
was killed. Other people were killed. Fifty of them were injured.

I saw that attack. I witnessed it. So -- and is there a--

CAVUTO:  But wouldn't you worry, wouldn't you worry, Senator, wouldn't you
worry if your effort fails, if he's not convicted, and he can go ahead and
run for office again, either as a Republican or to start a third party, and
you have given him ample publicity for him to state you have made him the
victim again, and look what they're doing to me again, that you have
actually helped him?

WARNER:  That is a -- that is one argument.

We have also seen how many other examples are there being -- that will come
to light? And we have got one additional one now -- and I don't know if
it's true or not -- of attempt to intervene with the Justice Department.

How many of these actions can anyone, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Hillary
Clinton, how many actions can any political figure take without any
consequences?

Now, we can agree to disagree whether a former president is subject to
impeachment. I think the case has been made in prior history. I think it
was the secretary of war back in the 1800s resigned and still got
impeached.

CAVUTO:  Right.

WARNER:  So, there is legal precedent. Well, we can have that debate.

But when you start taking these series of actions, and calling on folks to
go to the Capitol and take it back, intervening, whether with the Georgia
officials or with the Justice Department, to try to overthrew -- overthrow
an election that even Bill Barr, even Donald Trump's CISA director all said
was one of the cleanest elections in our country's history, how many of
those actions can take place without any consequence?

CAVUTO:  All right.

WARNER:  Now, we could get into a debate whether the consequence should be
impeachment or some other form. That's, again, I think, an ongoing
discussion that's going on.

But I don't think we can simply say, well, that was in the past, and we're
just going to move on, because what kind of precedent, Neil, does that set
for future elected holders that they can say, do whatever you want, And
then you can quit and have no -- no consequences?

CAVUTO:  All right, we will see what happens.

Senator Warner, very good chatting with you.

WARNER:  All right, Neil, always great to be with you.

CAVUTO:  Be safe and be well.

Again, this -- same here. This all kicks off on February 8.

To the senator now, fair and balanced, who says the whole thing is a waste
of time and a sham, called it so far as stupid, Marco Rubio -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, you just heard from Democratic Senator Mark Warner,
who's OK with this impeachment trial that will start on February 8, Monday,
February 8, because it's something that we should do, even though it
involves addressing a former president and preventing, at least the goal of
preventing him from holding elective office ever again.

Now, fair and balanced, to Marco Rubio, who has called the whole
impeachment trial itself stupid and bad for the country.

Senator Rubio with us right now.

You still feel that way, Senator? Stupid?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL):  Yes, more than ever.

It's -- look, first of all, it's not even constitutional. It's -- logic
tells you that, OK? The automatic consequences of impeachment and trial, if
you're convicted, the automatic consequence of it is, you're removed from
office. That's the automatic consequence of this process.

How can you put someone through a process where the automatic consequence
of it is impossible? You can't remove Donald Trump from office. He's not in
office.

The second is, we have got all these important issues in this country. We
have heard all these months and years about how the virus needs to be dealt
with. And I agree. The economy has been hurt by it. I agree. National
security threats, nominations, all these things we should be working on.

And, instead, we're going to spend from 1:00 until 7:00 or 8:00 six nights
a week for as long as it takes on an impeachment trial. And they're going
to tell you we can walk and chew gum.

When they were doing the first impeachment trial a year ago, they wouldn't
let us move nominations. They wouldn't let us move legislation. They said
it was -- they didn't want the day distracted. So, that's -- that was their
view of it then.

The third is, it stokes the fire. This is a country that's already deeply
divided. Politics has become very emotional. People literally hate each
other in this country over politics. And now, on top of that fire, we're
going to pour all of this gasoline, and really get it going hotter.

And the last point I would make is, it is pretty typical in the Third World
that, after someone's out of office, they lose, they leave, the party that
takes power then prosecutes them. It happens all over the world.

And that's the precedent we're creating here now, that we're creating the
precedent where we are going to have future political majorities in
Congress pursuing, pursuing the previous president, maybe even threatening
that president while they're in office that they're going to impeach him
after they leave if they don't do this or they don't do that.

So, there's a lot of reasons why this is stupid and a terrible idea for the
country. This actually isn't just a waste of time. It's going to hurt
America.

CAVUTO:  But isn't that of Donald Trump's doing, though, Senator? Do you
think that he provoked that crowd when he was saying: "These are the things
and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so
unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from our great patriots," that
he egged them on?

RUBIO:  Donald Trump is a private citizen.

CAVUTO:  There should be punishment. Do you think he should be punished for
those remarks?

RUBIO:  Yes, so, if someone makes those remarks as a -- he's a private
citizen.

So, he's now -- the reason why we have impeachment is the following. You
can't charge a president. So, you have to remove them from office, and then
they're subject to criminal penalty. That's why -- that's why Ford had to
pardon Nixon, because, after he resigned, he could have still been
prosecuted.

If the president did something that rises to that level, as these folks so
strongly believe, then he should -- that the criminal justice system and
the civil system is in place to pursue.

CAVUTO:  Do you believe, if these remarks were six months earlier, though,
Senator--

RUBIO:  The reason why the impeachment process exists--

CAVUTO:  If they were six months earlier -- and I understand what you're
saying about the timeline here, that now you're dealing with a former
president -- but that if he had said the exact same thing and triggered a
riot that happened on January 6, let's say, on June 6, do you think that
impeachment proceedings against him would have been warranted?

RUBIO:  Well, on the basis of these facts, that's why you would have to
have a trial at that point.

But here's why that trial would be different than what's happening now.
That person is in office.

CAVUTO:  Just his language, Senator, just his language.

RUBIO:  No. No, it isn't. No.

CAVUTO:  Do you think his language was incendiary enough?

RUBIO:  Well, I think that there's no doubt that the president bears some
responsibility for what happened. I think what happened was a foreseeable
consequence, not just of what he said, but all the events leading up to it.

But here's the point. If he's president of the United States, you can't
charge him criminally. You don't -- you can't. You have to impeach him,
remove him, and then you can charge him criminally.

In this case, he is now a private citizen. And if he committed wrongdoing
while he was president, then the criminal justice system can deal with
that.

But this is not the right use of Congress' time. It's vindictive. This is
all about the left's demand for revenge. And I'm going to be frank. Some of
the people out there in the political entertainment business, this is about
ratings and about clicks, because this is another drama story that adds to
the show.

And I just think it's a terrible thing for the country. And -- but they're
going to put us through it, because this is exactly what their base is
demanding.

CAVUTO:  It could help -- as I was raising with Senator Warner, sir, it
could actually help Donald Trump. It seems unlikely -- you know the read of
votes among your colleagues far better than I -- that he would be convicted
in the Senate.

So, he could go ahead and, if he wanted to, run for office again, maybe a
third party run again. What do you think if he does either?

RUBIO:  If he does either what? I'm sorry.

CAVUTO:  Run for president.

RUBIO:  If he runs again?

CAVUTO:  Yes.

RUBIO:  He has -- he's a private citizen. He has every right to run again.

And this idea that we need to do this so we can disqualify him, it's
arrogance. Who are we here in the Senate or in the -- those guys over in
the House, who are we to tell the American people, here's who you can vote
for and here's who you can't?

Let me tell you, if Donald Trump did as terrible a job as the Democrats
think he did, if history is going to reflect so poorly on him, as they
believe and they say it is, then what are they worried about? Then why --
then why do they have to do that?

Because the only way Donald Trump can ever be president again is if people
vote him into office, if they elect him, the people. And so I just don't --
again, it's a tremendous arrogance on their part to decide, we're going to
disqualify you from office.

This is a vengeance play. That's all this is. This is all about vengeance
and retribution, because that's what the radical left is demanding of their
party leaders.

And I would imagine it's also an opportunity for some House members to get
some free national airtime doing this impeachment trial and help them raise
some money off that as well.

CAVUTO:  Have you talked to Donald Trump since he stepped down, Senator?

RUBIO:  I have not.

But I should. He lives in Florida. He's a constituent now.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  You ran for president before. You ran for president before,.

Would it make any difference to you if Donald Trump were readying another
run, either for the Republican presidential nomination or maybe a third
party bid?

RUBIO:  Donald Trump is the most prominent, most influential Republican in
the country.

Now, we will see what he wants to do. It will have to be his decision in
three or four years. And I would imagine anybody who's thinking about
running for president -- I haven't made that decision. I have an election
in 2022 that I will have to get through.

But anyone who's thinking about running for president as a Republican would
have to take into account that the most prominent, well-known and popular
Republican among Republicans in the country would run again. I mean, of
course it would be a factor. Everyone would take that into account.

But I'm not presuming that's what the president is going to do. I don't
know what the world's going to look like in four years. I'm trying to focus
on my job right now. And my job right now is--

CAVUTO:  Understood.

RUBIO:  -- how can we help small businesses recover after this terrible
pandemic? How can we get more people vaccinated? How can we keep our
country safe from the threat of China and terrorists and Russia and all the
-- and Iran?

That's what we should be working on, not putting on trial, through an
impeachment process, someone who's no longer in office. This is a clown
show. It's a joke.

CAVUTO:  The only reason why I mentioned the presidential thing is, it
sounds to me that Chris Christie seems to be off and running already, and
that he doesn't think much of candidates -- he hasn't cited you, I should
say, sir -- but of this kowtowing to President Trump.

So, regardless of what the president's -- former president's intentions
are, I get a feeling he's going to run regardless. It -- would it make a
difference to you, your views on the president notwithstanding, if he were
in or out?

RUBIO:  Well, I think it would make a difference for anybody. It would
certainly be a factor.

But, again, I'm not going to speculate--

CAVUTO:  Yes.

RUBIO:  -- and get into the political gamesmanship.

I'm going to have an election in '22. I have a job. I don't even know what
I'm going to be thinking about in two or three years or what anyone is
going to be talking about. If I had told you--

CAVUTO:  But you do know that, next year, you could be facing a primary
challenge, right?

RUBIO:  Yes.

CAVUTO:  There's talk that Ivanka Trump is interested in running against
you. What do you think of that?

RUBIO:  But who -- who can't? I mean, all of us are elected.

Every single one of us can be primaried. Every single one of us can have a
primary challenge. I'm not the owner of the Florida Senate seat.

CAVUTO:  No, I know that. But what would you think if it were Ivanka Trump?
What would you think if it were she?

RUBIO:  I would -- I would -- I like Ivanka Trump very much. We work
together very well. I have never heard her say that.

And bottom line is that whether she -- she's a resident of Florida. Anybody
-- any resident of Florida who's 30 years of age can run to be the
Republican nominee, can run to be the U.S. senator for -- as an independent
or as a Democrat.

I have -- if -- if -- when I run for reelection, like any other senator,
you have to earn the right to continue to serve the people of your state.

I'm very proud of what I have done over the last six years, and especially
over the last four working with President Trump during the campaign. And we
will talk about that. We will point that out to people when the time comes
to do that.

But none of us -- none of us are entitled to run unopposed. People have a
right to run against you. And I have always anticipated that a Senate race
in Florida is going to be tough. I have done it twice. And they were both
tough.

CAVUTO:  Would it be weird, though, that for -- you have been very loyal
and very supportive of President Trump -- if his daughter would have run
against you?

You're quite right. She has not indicated that. It does seem to be in the
rumor mill, though. But you're ready regardless, I guess, right?

RUBIO:  Well, I think you have to be ready regardless, no matter who you
are, no matter where you are.

CAVUTO:  Yes.

RUBIO:  I mean, and they're -- every state every six years, you elect a
senator by going to voters. And you have to go to them and say, this is
what I have done. If you send me back, this is what I will do.

And they make a judgment, both within your party and ultimately within the
general electorate. But that's what I have always thought when you decide
to run for reelection, especially in a state like Florida that is so
competitive. Of course, this -- these are all going to be tough races. I
have always known that.

And the last time I ran for reelection, I filed six days before the
deadline. That was pretty tough to put together. But we were successful.
So, when the time comes, we will have a great campaign, we will have a
great story to tell. But I still have two years left in this term, and I
have a lot of work to do.

But I won't be able to do as much because I will be sitting on the floor of
the U.S. Senate in a stupid impeachment trial, so that you -- these guys
can make their base happy.

CAVUTO:  Senator, let me ask you a little bit about the governing style
early on -- I know it's very early on -- of Joe Biden.

I think you had said -- I don't want to misquote you, so I will try to
paraphrase it -- that he talks more moderate than he approaches his job
with these executive orders. And he's got a bunch of them, in fact, at this
point, more than his four predecessors combined, and then some.

Now, Donald Trump was famous for executive orders as well, and they built
up in the ensuing months in office. But are you worried about this trend to
sort of lead by order?

RUBIO:  Yes, I'm very concerned about it.

And, again, the -- I think that this growth of executive power in this
country has been going on now across multiple presidencies. Every
administration we have seen, certainly in modern history, has pursued an
aggressive pen and a phone strategy, as Obama called it.

President Trump certainly did that on many occasions. And now I imagine --
and I see now Joe Biden is doing it.

My point is that -- and his temperament is moderate. Certainly, his career
would be defined as that of a centrist for the most time that he was in the
U.S. senate. But, right now, what he seems to be going is checking off the
boxes of a liberal wish list.

You look at the Keystone pipeline cancellation, that does nothing for the
environment, nothing for climate change whatsoever. It does upset the
Canadians a lot, an important ally. And it just put thousands of people out
of work overnight, at a time when it's already hard to find work, at a time
when work is difficult for people in blue-collar jobs.

You just put thousands of families on the unemployment line at the stroke
of a pen just to please your radical base.

CAVUTO:  Senator, we're very clearly going to be going to a Joe Biden event
on the coronavirus, and it's to get more vaccines out. He wants to
dramatically up the number of vaccines that are available.

RUBIO:  Good.

CAVUTO:  Are you surprised some of the difficulties he's been having on
this front?

RUBIO:  Well, I think every state has handled the distribution of it
differently.

Look, this is a massive effort. This is -- these are two brand-new
vaccines. They were developed in a record period of time. There's two doses
associated with them, that you have to get them out there. You have got to
convince people to do it.

There's still a tremendous amount of reluctance in some places. I think
Florida has gotten it right, prioritizing seniors, the people at -- most at
risk of winding up in a hospital and losing their life. Every state will
have to make decisions like that.

But I certainly think that we could work together. There could be a strong
bipartisan support for doing whatever needs to be done to get 100 million
people vaccinated in 100 days. We have largely been on pace to do that. And
we want to stay on that pace.

And we want to see that equalizer that is happening all over the country. I
think that's a very worthy goal. It would be great for the economy. The
more people are vaccinated, the faster this disease drops, the sooner we
can get to reopening things in places where they're closed to get people
back to work and get the economy going again.

CAVUTO:  Are you surprised states like California, New Jersey and New York
that had some of the most stringent restrictions in place are now loosening
things up?

RUBIO:  Well, I'm not -- I'm surprised it took them this long.

Like anything else In public policy, you have -- there has to be a
balancing act, OK? There has to be a balancing act, costs and benefits. And
there are certainly benefits, to a point, with some of the lockdowns and
some of the things that have happened.

But there comes a point where the benefit is outweighed by the cost of
doing it. In some places, kids have not gone back to school in almost a
year now. The costs of that are extraordinary and irreversible in many
cases. You have put many small businesses out of work. Entire industries,
like hospitality, have been wiped out.

So, I think the way to make good public policy is, you constantly have to
weigh the costs against the benefits of any action. And I think that
perspective is lost here in a lot of places that are now learning that the
hard way.

CAVUTO:  All right, very quickly -- and you have been very patient, Senator
-- we're learning as well that Joe Biden will still stick to his $1.9
trillion COVID stimulus plan that will include a hike in the minimum wage,
if he were to have his way.

There's also in there some help for states and all the rest. Is it too big
a package for you?

You said in the past that you're open to follow-up stimulus, but I would
imagine the sheer size of this has you worried still?

RUBIO:  Well, first of all, because he knows it's not going to pass.

I mean, they know $1.9 trillion is not going to pass. So, what you have
done now is, you have added weeks of delay on getting something done.
Second, look, the cost is a lot.

CAVUTO:  Right.

RUBIO:  But we have already spent a lot of money, we're going to have to
probably spend some more because, otherwise, we risk damage to the very
structure and architecture of our economy, some of which will take a decade
or longer to reverse.

Where I do think things like the minimum wage, Florida just passed the
minimum wage through the voters. That, in and of itself, is not the
problem. The problem is, that's an additional cost on small businesses. So,
here, you have been out of work or out of business for a while.

CAVUTO:  All right.

RUBIO:  You're going to try to reopen, and, suddenly, your labor costs are
going to go up, but your profits and your income isn't there yet. So, what
are you going to do?

You're either not going to reopen or you're going to hire less people, at a
time when we have got to get more people back to work. I don't know why
that has to be mixed in with the rest of it.

Again, if he focused on COVID relief, if he focused on, can we get
additional payments to individuals who need it, can we get more vaccines
and -- out there distributed to people, can we get more help to small
business, I think you could have a very strong bipartisan bill.

CAVUTO:  All right.

RUBIO:  If you start adding in all the stuff that the left has been
demanding that has nothing to do with COVID, you're going to have problems,
it's going to take a lot longer than it should to get to a deal, and people
are going to be hurt.

CAVUTO:  All right, we will see what happens.

Senator, I wanted you to finish that thought.

And now to the president of the United States, whether he will address some
of the things that Marco Rubio just pointed out, because Rubio is not alone
in his concerns.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  -- administration and the
science community and the medical sphere for getting the program--

(BANGING NOISE)

BIDEN:  I didn't do it, I promise.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN:  For getting the program off the ground. And that credit is
absolutely due.

But it's also no secret that we have recently discovered, in the final days
of the transition -- and it wasn't until the final days we got the kind of
cooperation we needed -- that once we arrived, the vaccine program is worse
shape than we anticipated or expected. A lot of you who follow this -- and
nobody is -- I mean this sincerely, the press is the smartest group of
people in town; you hone this stuff down, clearly -- I think you found the
same thing.

Even before I took office, I announced a new vaccine -- a vaccination
strategy which centers on federal leadership and execution for our whole
country. And that's why I directed my COVID team to go to work immediately,
and how we could step up the vaccination efforts and the vaccinations.

I'm pleased to announce the first progress in that work today on day seven
of my presidency. First, after review of the current vaccine supply
manufacturing plants, I can announce that we will increase overall weekly
vaccination distribution to states, tribes, and territories from 8. 6
million doses to a minimum of 10 million doses, starting next week. That's
an increase of 1. 4 million doses per week.

And you all know -- if I may note, parenthetically -- you all know -- know
that the vaccines are distributed to states based on population. They're
based on population. And so the smaller the state, the less vaccine; the
bigger the state, the more they get. And so this is going to allow millions
of more Americans to get vaccinated sooner than previously anticipated. We
got a long way to go, though.

The second thing:  We're increasing the transparency with states, cities,
and tribes, and local partners when it comes to the vaccine supply. This is
something we've heard over and over again from both Democrats and
Republicans, state and local leaders:  that they need a plan in order to
what -- they didn't know what they had to plan on. They need to know what
the order is going to be.

Jeff had a meeting with the governors on Zoom and others. And I think we're
getting this coordinated in a way that there's increased cooperation and
confidence.

But until now, we've had to guess how much vaccine to expect for the next
week. And that's what the governors had to do:  How much am I getting next
week? This is unacceptable. They -- you know, the lives are at stake here.

From this week forward, God willing, we'll ensure that states, tribes, and
territories will now always have a reliable three-week forecast on what the
supply they're going to get. So they'll know, three weeks ahead of time,
what's going to be there in the third week.

This is going to help make sure governors, mayors, and local leaders have
greater certainty around supply so they can carry out their plans to
vaccinate as many people as possible.

So, we will both increase the supply in the short term by more than 15
percent and give our states and local partners more certainty about when
the deliveries will arrive. These two steps are going to help increase our
prospects of hitting and -- or exceeding, God willing, the ambitious goal
of 100 million shots in 100 days.

But I also want to be clear:  100 million shots in 100 days is not the
endpoint; it's just the start. We're not stopping there. The end goal is to
beat COVID-19. And the way we do that is to get more people vaccinated,
which means we have to be ready, after we hit the ground -- after we hit
the goal of 100 million shots in 100 days.

Now, that means fewer than 100 million people getting totally vaccinated;
it means 100 shots, and it means somewhere between 60 -- maybe less, maybe
more -- million people will have the -- because it requires two shots in
many cases -- not always.

So today, I'm directing COVID-19 Response Coordinator Jeff Zients, here, to
work with the Department of Health and Human Services to increase our total
supply of vaccine for the American people. And we believe that we'll soon
be able to confirm the purchase of an additional 100 million doses for each
of the two FDA-authorized vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna. That's 100 million
more doses of Pfizer and 100 million more doses of Moderna -- 200 million
more doses than the federal government had previously secured. Not in hand
yet, but ordered.

We expect these additional 200 million doses to be delivered this summer.
And some of it will come as early -- begin to come in early summer, but by
the mid -- -- by the mid-summer, that this vaccine will be there. And the
order -- and that increases the total vaccine order in the United States by
50 percent -- from 400 million ordered to 600 million.

This is enough vaccine to fully vaccinate 300 Americans by the end of the
summer, beginning of the fall. But we want to make -- look, that's -- I
want to repeat:  It'll be enough to fully vaccinate 300 Americans to beat
this pandemic -- 300 million Americans. And this is aggregate plan that
doesn't leave anything on the table or anything to chance, as we've seen
happen in the past year.

I've said before:  This is a wartime effort. When I say -- when I say that,
people ask, Wartime? I say, Yeah, more than 400,000 Americans have already
died. I think it's 400,000 and 11,000 or 12,000 have died in one year of
this pandemic -- more than all the people who died in all of -- Americans
who died in World War Two. This is a wartime undertaking; it's not
hyperbole.

And as such, I directed the team to be ready to exercise all the
authorities I have under the Defense Production Act, and expedite these
vaccines. And we're using the Defense Production Act to launch a full-
scale, wartime effort to address the supply shortages we inherited from the
previous administration.

We're going to be working across the government, with private industry, to
ramp up production of vaccine and protective equipment -- the syringes, the
needles, the gloves, the swabs, and the masks -- everything that's needed
to protect, test, vaccinate, and take care of our people. Well, we've
already identified suppliers, and we're working with them to move our plan
forward.

The biggest problem -- I hope you're all asking me by the end of the summer
that, You have too much vaccine left over. You have too much equipment
leftover. That's not my worry. I hope that becomes the problem, rather than
we somehow find interruptions in supply or access.

These aggressive steps to increase vaccine supply come on top of the steps
we took last week to get more people vaccinated for free, to create more
places for them to get vaccinated, and to mobilize more medical teams to
get shots in people's arms.

We've directed FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to stand up
the first federally supported community vaccination centers, and that work
is underway. We're working to make vaccines available to thousands of local
pharmacies,
beginning in early February; it's a couple weeks off. And we -- that will
enormously expand our reach.

Last week, I also signed a declaration to immediately begin reimbursing
states 100 percent for the uses of their National Guard to help the COVID
relief effort, both getting people -- getting the sites set up and even
using some of their personnel to administer some of the vaccines.

And I think it's something Democrats, Republicans, governors alike have
called for.

END

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