Tangled Forensic Web at Casey Anthony Trial
Debate over Caylee's body and the trunk may be beside the point. What about how she died?
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," June 22, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Is there any evidence tying Casey Anthony to the wooded area where Caylee's remains were found wrapped in plastic and duct taped? That spot is within walking distance from the Anthony home. The defense claims little Caylee drowned in her grandparents backyard swimming pool. But the prosecution says something much more sinister happened. They say Casey murdered her daughter suffocating her with duct tape. What did one defense expert testify today?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAUREEN BOTTRELL, FBI TRACE EVIDENCE UNIT: Three pairs of the shoes had some geologic material on that we could do a comparison. And of the three pairs the material recovered is different from the crime scene. So it could not have originated from that location.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: Our legal panel is back. Joining us are Orlando attorney Diana Tennis and criminal defense attorneys Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams. Diana, I still don't understand. If I were trying the case, it seems to me, I would -- my closing argument would be my client is a rat, no question about it. She didn't show concern. But the prosecution still must prove cause of death, and nobody could prove cause of death because the body was found so late. That would be how I would do it. She is a rat isn't circumstantial evidence to show cause of death.
So why in the world is the defense trying to remove her from the so-called crime scene of the remains? What difference does it make if she is part of that or not?
DIANA TENNIS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't know. Two and a half years ago I told you Jose Baez needed a time machine. I wish we could get him a little one back to opening statement. He did not need to involve dad as a co-conspirator. It is ridiculous.
If she found the child and done the loony thing the family does, check out of reality, deny your pregnant daughter is pregnant. Keep the body in the trunk for three to five days, nothing is crazier and more checked out of reality than that. Then yes, I wrapped her up, put her in the woods and I've months later, who knows what happened. Never used tape (INAUDIBLE).
It would have been so much more plausible than this burden that they put on themselves. It may not be legal. But it is logical. And the jury is going to start wondering. We've had days and days of you poking at the state case. Where is the evidence of your opening?
VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, murder has a specific definition. I don't need to, he will [tell] you. Beyond a reasonable doubt you have to prove the elements. One is the -- death is caused by a murder. She is the worst person. Her behavior was terrible. I don't understand why the defense is so distracted on these other things?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They are just collateral. Diana hit the nail on the head. The defense is taking on a burden they can't prove. The judge will instruct the jury. Jurors ignore that. When you assume that burden, that's a problem. The opening statement is you are going to despise my client. You are going to hate her. Have no respect for her. But there was an accident that happened. And the state can't prove that she killed her daughter.
VAN SUSTEREN: If it is a tie.
GRIMM: If it is a tie I win. You got to keep focus. Listening to Jeanine and Mark Fuhrman, they already have this girl convicted.
VAN SUSTEREN: What I don't get, what in the world is the defense attorney doing, Ted, going after the parents? Now sticking a mistress and the lawyer for George has denied it. Ruthless, why are they attacking the father?
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That's the $60,000 question. In the army we have something call KISS -- keep it simple stupid. In this case, you can condemn this woman. We know she is a liar.
VAN SUSTEREN: Sure you can condemn her, absolutely.
WILLIAMS: You can't condemn her and put her to death for just being a liar.
VAN SUSTEREN: You can't convict her. But you can condemn her. Her behavior is terrible. She is rotten.
WILLIAMS: Let's look at the evidence. What evidence do they have to show this was not an accident, that this was in fact a murder? All we have is a parent who unfortunately, left her child for 31 days which is terrible.
VAN SUSTEREN: But the way you typically prove death is by the autopsy. The fact that this autopsy was not as thorough as Dr. Baden has said. The fact the body was out in the environment for a long period of time has made it difficult to prove.
WILLIAMS: What you said, and I agree. What I would have liked to have seen Jose do is save and preserve his opening statement and put his opening statement on after the prosecution put his statement on.
VAN SUSTEREN: Diana?
TENNIS: I think that would have helped. I think the reason for the crazy co-conspirator dad thing is because they were too afraid of the duct tape. They had to put that baby into dad's hands so they could say I have no idea what happened with the duct tape. They were way too worried about that and they shouldn't have been.
VAN SUSTEREN: That's fine, but you can make stuff up. If it turns out to be made up, that's egregious on the part of the defense lawyer.
GRIMM: There's nothing wrong in a first degree murder case with taking a chance and going on the fly. I've done it hundreds of times when I'm boxed into a corner. But you have to have some evidence.
VAN SUSTEREN: Good faith.
GRIMM: You have to have good faith. The jury is going to say I despise her and I don't trust her lawyer either.
WILLIAMS: The government has not connected the dots. Strong circumstantial evidence case, I would agree. Are we going to convict this girl for being a horrible person?
VAN SUSTEREN: The strong circumstantial evidence scepter the one thing the cause of death. As bad as she is and despicable and getting tattoos and partying --
WILLIAMS: You have to connect the dots, and they have not evidentiary-wise.
VAN SUSTEREN: They should charge whether you can't stand her.
TENNIS: Aggravated child abuse gets you the death penalty, that's the problem.
VAN SUSTEREN: Diana, I have to go. Thank you all.
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