Updated

This is a rush transcript from “MediaBuzz” November 22, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

 

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  This is MEDIA BUZZ. I am Howard Kurtz.
President Trump is escalating his attack on the election result despite a
series of legal setbacks, the latest one last night in Pennsylvania, even
talking through Republican lawmakers who might flip their states by naming
pro-Trump electoral delegates.

And media are ramping up their attacks over his blocking a transition with
Joe Biden's team over Rudy Giuliani's wild press conference, and over Trump
repeatedly declaring victory.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I won by the way, but you
know, find that out. Almost 74 million votes, we had big pharma against us.
We had the media against us. We had big tech against us.

UNKNOWN:  Trump's continued insistence that the election was fraudulent,
his willingness to fire a top official who dared contradict him on it,
well, it gives encouragement and coverage who his supporters were trying to
sabotage results.

UNKNOWN:  My mouth agape when I was watching this. Rudy Giuliani was
rambling on about wild conspiracy theories.

UNKNOWN:  It's time to tell the president that he and Rudy and their
confederacy of dunces need to stop making fools of themselves, and let the
next commander in chief get ready to protect and defend this country.

UNKNOWN:  This is a president, this is a nation, that has just been wrong
mightily. Only an idiot would try to claim that there were no
irregularities that there were no anomalies.

UNKNOWN:  The president wants to take a few weeks, count every legal vote,
investigate every claim of fraud and abuse, and media acts like the world
is ending. Obviously, with amnesia the last four years. 

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Guy Benson,
host of the Guy Benson Show on Fox News Radio. In New York, Liz Claman,
host of the Claman Countdown on Fox Business, and Harold Ford, former
Democratic congressman from Tennessee. Guy, the media are in total open
revolt of against President Trump's tactics in refusing to concede this
election.

Chuck Todd, Meet The Press this morning, Trump is conducting an assault on
our democracy, Jake Tapper CNN's State of the Union this morning, Trump is
trying to undermine democracy. Is this fair?

GUY BENSON, THE GUY BENSON SHOW HOST:  I think that the president deserves
a lot of credit the way that he and team are handling this election loss.
Some of the sound bites that we just heard there from a number of
commentators, I agree with. Count every vote, make sure they're all legal,
cross every T, dot every I, pursue legitimate questions and irregularities
or allegations.

But that is different than declaring victory repeatedly. And alleging mass
fraud, of which there simply is not evidence, and that is not me speaking.
That is the Trump's legal team in court. I think the canyon between what
they are saying in theatrical press conferences versus what they're saying
in court under oath where they're at least some, you know, professional
issues that arise or legal issues that arise if you don't tell the truth to
a judge. I think that that gap is pretty telling.

KURTZ:  And on that point, Liz Claman, look, we in the media have an
obligation to cover every lawsuit filed by the president and his team. 
Last night, federal judge in Pennsylvania tossing a suit, saying they are
trying to disenfranchise seven million voters based on strained legal
arguments and speculation unsupported by evidence.

Also, a lot of media criticism when the president fired his DHS
cybersecurity chief, Chris Krebs, saying that he didn't agree with Krebs'
conclusion, that there is no widespread fraud, so what is your take on the
media coverage?

LIZ CLAMAN, THE CLAMAN COUNTDOWN ANCHOR:  Well, the media has been showing
up to every event, from the four seasons total landscaping event to of
course Rudy Giuliani's news conference. I have to say that when you look at
the judge from last night who threw out that case, this was a Republican
judge who is a member of the federalist society.

So this isn't some Republican, you know, center left or, you know, they
call them rhinos, Republican in name only. This is a very respected judge
who looked at this evidence said you guys have brought together some very
ill defined conjecture, and there is a scarcity of, you know, legally
acceptable evidence that you are presenting that you are supposed to before
a judge.

And when you have, Howie, the president's own lawfirms, from corner right
to Jones (Inaudible) saying we are out. We can't do this anymore because we
don't see an even possible attempt at winning here. That is a problem. I
mean, that is -- since when do we see lawyers who don't want to take money,
since they look at evidence and say there is no this there, there.

So that becomes the issue. The media covered it. And when I say the media,
let's just bring that out, and that is Fox News, Vox, New York Times, left,
right, everybody.

KURTZ:  Harold Ford, the president went on a tweet storm last night about
challenging the election results, different ways in which he thinks he can
win, including the media are just as corrupt as the election itself. So my
question is are the media basically reporting the facts of all the press
conferences and litigation, or are they using this period to indulge in
their resentment and sometimes hostility toward President Trump?

HAROLD FORD JR. (D) FORMER TENNESSEE CONGRESSMAN:  First, thanks for having
me on. I think that this based on Liz's comments. She found a range of
media making the case that Mr. Trump's lawyers are making. And the results
are getting all that's been as reporting it -- the news media's reporting
it. Thomas Jefferson at the founding of our republic said with freedom
comes responsibility.

We Americans have a responsibility to Thanksgiving, as we think about
COVID. And the president and his team has a responsibility of the law -- as
the facts and the law collide in order to make decisions. I am hopeful that
at a minimum this week the President Trump team will allow the GSA
administrator to begin sharing of information from COVID to China to Russia
to North Korea to the state of affairs, economically for everyday
Americans, particularly main street.

So if and when this is done, and I think the president knows he's lost, but
when he concedes, we have a peaceful transfer of power (Inaudible) this new
administration to lead --

(CROSSTALK) 

KURTZ:  Well, let's turn to this 90 minute rather wild Rudy Giuliani press
conference that has gotten a lot of attention. Here's a brief clip of him
taking a question from a reporter from a certain network.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN:  What publication are you?

UNKNOWN:  CNN.

UNKNOWN:  It's to go around the outrageous iron curtain of censorship and
get facts to the American people that if you are a fair and honest network,
you would have been reporting for the last two weeks.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  Guy Benson, so Rudy has gone from alleging fraud
irregularities in various state lawsuits, talking about an international
conspiracy to steal millions of votes from Trump to Biden. And my question
is -- and calling the Biden's crooks, by the way. My question wouldn't you
expect a lot of media pushback on that?

And what would the conservative reaction be if a President Obama or Clinton
had -- was in this position and making these kinds of arguments?

BENSON:  We would be going apoplectic. I mean, that's obvious. I would say
this as to that quip about CNN everyone starting laughing that the question
was coming from CNN. You can ask fair and legitimate questions right now,
especially based on what the Trump team is attempting to do and what they
are saying without basis and fact.

And that can come from any news organization. The issue that CNN has is
they have been so relentlessly hostile to this president for four years. I
mean, to a point that has been almost comical, right? It's been almost
cartoonish how much they hate him. And I know they claim that they're just
a straight news network.

They don't have an opinion programming. I think their programming belies
those slogans, so they do not have a lot of credibility with anyone who is
remotely sympathetic to President Trump given their editorial hostility
toward him four years. So I think that when everyone is going to an 11 out
of 10 all the time for an entire presidential term where they're outraged
about everything.

They might become, you know, the boy who cried wolf where when there is
time to really raise serious concerns, many people tune them out. So I
think it is up to other people who have been more fair to the president to
tell the truth.

KURTZ:  Well, Liz, at that same Giuliani presser, he also pushed back hard
against a question from reporter for the conservative Daily Caller, so this
doesn't always break down as a left right debate in the media.

CLAMAN:  Well, sure. And Fox, let's talk about the 800 pound gorilla in the
room. The president has lashed out at Fox News, but let's be very clear
about something. I am going to defend Fox News very hard on this one. Fox
News, aside from the prime time opinion shows in some opinion shoes on the
weekend, Fox News is a news operation.

They have covered this case. They have looked very fairly at much of it.
And when you have reporters, top reporters, Eric Shawn, Jonathan Hunt,
Steve Doocy, all of these names, and Peter Doocy, you know, and Jacqui
Heinrich. They're doing yeoman's duty here as a news organization, and what
do they see? They see Rudy Giuliani coming out, talking about quote, "hack
judges".

He referenced all kinds of things like a Venezuelan dictator, saying they
were behind and one of them is dead. One of them is alive, and then no hard
evidence. And as they look at it and demanded Tucker Carlson the other
night demanded the hard evidence from Sidney Powell, the Trump attorney,
did not did not get it.

What is a reporter doing here? They are looking at this. I don't know. Rudy
Giuliani, Jedi master level effort at self destruction on a national stage,
Howie, and saying we have judges who are Republican who are kicking this
out. We have attorneys. We have, you know, a lot of legislators right now
who are saying forget it, and they are covering the story as it proceeds.

KURTZ:  Well, that is what a news organization does. And I know some people
think that Fox should back President Trump no matter what, but we have to
follow facts. We're a little short on time here so we're going to ask for
short answers. Harold, Reuters poll says that 68 percent of Republicans say
they are concerned the election was rigged.

That is a word that President Trump often uses, so his message is getting
out, at least to his party.

FORD JR.:  Look, this is what happens at the end of races. I remember in
2000 when the 2000 race was contested. I was one of the first if not the
first in Democratic congress to congratulate George w. Bush. I was a huge
supporter of Al Gore. I was criticized by some Democrats for doing it then.
I think Republicans have to step forth, too.

The question around media, any media person can ask a question of a
politician or someone making a claim and they ought to defend their
position regardless of the media organization. That is not what is
happening here. I hope that Joe Biden is able to remove those poll the
other way, Howie, that you talked about. We unfortunately entered era where
we think a Republican judge is supposed to side with Republicans.

A Democratic network is supposed side with Democrats. We need to get back
to regular order, as some would say in Washington. And I believe that Joe
Biden might be -- all people the right person at this time to help us do
that.

KURTZ:  All right. And Guy, on a whole new level here, President Trump's
taking a lot of heat from media for inviting top Republican lawmakers from
Michigan to White House. And part of an effort, he comes out says to get
them to flip their states. And they came out and said no, no, we think the
vote count was fine.

Are the media right or wrong in saying that this is pretty unprecedented
and rather troubling?

BENSON:  It is troubling, and people are going to be mad I say that, but
our job is to tell the truth. And it is troubling. The good news is and
this is on the record before the meeting ever happened. Some of the
Republican -- top Republican legislators, the leaders in some of these
states that are contested had come out, to my knowledge, unanimously and
said we aren't going to cave to any sort of pressure.

The people have spoken in our states, and the winner of our states will get
our legislators. That is the way it ought to be, and that should not be a
controversial thing to say.

KURTZ:  Right. You know, it's also stranger that since election, President
Trump usually talks to the press all the time, hasn't taken a single
question from reporters in nearly three weeks. All right, when we come
back, many in the media demanding the president give Joe Biden and his team
transition briefings because of the pandemic. And later, Sharyl Attkisson
on MEDIA BUZZ.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  Donald Trump, Jr. is the latest high profile person to test
positive for the Coronavirus. This is the American death toll passes the
250,000 mark. The president is drawing media flak for focusing far more on
the election battle for not cooperating in the transition, and that
criticism is starting with Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES:  More people may die if
we don't coordinate.

UNKNOWN:  There has been no effort by the Trumpers except to put Trump's
political health first, not your health. Literally, Trumpers are risking
the fates of so many of you because Trump is upset about his own fate.

UNKNOWN:  Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, they have a lot of work to do after
the months of fear-mongering about a vaccine. Essentially, if they don't
turn this around and start talking positively about these vaccines, they
are essentially killing people.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  With some Democratic officials, not to mention the CDC,
urging people to cancel their holiday plans for fear of spreading the
virus, a conservative counter attack is casting this on a war on
Thanksgiving.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN:  Liberals who worship at the altar of Fauci have no problem
reaching into your homes and demanding that you behave in a certain way. If
you had Thanksgiving plans, they want to shame you into cancelling them.

UNKNOWN:  So politicians have now decided they have total power over you.
They can literally decide who comes to Thanksgiving dinner at your house
and where they can stand. Let's lunatic -- it's never happened in American
history before.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  Liz, there were 198,000 new COVID cases on Friday
alone, to the extent that people are being urged not to travel for
Thanksgiving. Should that be portrayed as an assault on civil liberties?

CLAMAN:  I'll go to Congress -- sorry, Senator Ric Scott who tested
positive on Friday, Republican from Florida. He issued a statement after
testing positive, and in essence he said listen to the public health
experts. Translation, you really do want to be awfully careful. And perhaps
by saying something that is that serious and that focused and pinpointed.

It really shows that there are a lot of people who are rational and
thinking about this, not necessarily, you know, Dr. Fauci, but people like
these representatives and these senators who tested positive. Again, why a
Republican has to go and get out there before people listen to it. That is
just the state that we are in right now.

But I would say that the American Medical Association, Howie, American
Nurses Association, they have all really gotten concerned about this, and
we've got a terrible number --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ:  Guy, it's frustrating to be told don't go visit your grandma. Don't
go visit your parents for Thanksgiving. It doesn't help when California
governor Gavin Newsom, we've seen the photos now, throws a swanky birthday
party with no masks, a lot of people sitting together. And for a lobbyist,
do you see an emerging war on Thanksgiving?

BENSON:  I think the selective shaming is really frustrating to a lot of
Americans. And you mentioned Governor Newsom, that is just one, right?
There is Speaker Pelosi at the salon. There were various Democratic mayors,
you know, in Chicago, in Washington, D.C., making exemptions for themselves
to their rules.

There were photos over weekend of Democratic political fund-raisers
happening indoors in New York City where they've closed schools, which is
against the best scientific evidence. So a lot of normal people sit at
home, see this hypocrisy, see the media loving the crowds of people
celebrating Joe Biden's win, and then shaming the MAGA rally.

It feels like a lot of it is political, and it should not have to feel that
way. But that is on leadership. That is, I think, on the media to a certain
extent. And just to be transparent, Howie, as soon as this show is over, we
are driving up for Thanksgiving to see my family, smaller group. We have
been isolating. We got tested. We're wearings about masks.

We're socially distancing, but we're making smart and I think safe choices
for our family, which is what public officials should be encouraging and
giving us tips rather than all this finger wagging and shaming which seems
to not always apply to everyone.

KURTZ:  I hope you enjoy the food. And the double standard you pointed out
a fair point. Harold, the media debate seems to be Democratic officials
love lockdowns and Republicans care more about struggling businesses. But
is that rather out moded now that you have Republican governors in places
like Utah, North Dakota, or Ohio issuing ask mandates, issuing curfews and
other restrictions in light of this fall surge.

FORD JR.:  Look, we don't need another lockdown. And we certainly also
don't need a patchwork system to deal with this. We need a national system
and a national strategy. I would push back a little bit with some of the
narrative in the last few minutes. We do have some numbers, 195,000 people
contracted the virus. I know that Americans are going to be safe.

I know that Americans are going to be vigilant. But it certainly doesn't
hurt public health experts and the infrastructure to encourage it in the
strongest of ways. Remember, the people have take care of people who come
down with the virus and face awful, awful health situations are frontline
workers, I mean, nurses and others who fought back in March and April and
June.

I thought we might be in a better position now. So I can only hope that
whatever you may do this Thanksgiving, and I am normally hosted 40 people
at my home, my family and my wife's family. We're going to be (Inaudible) I
would assume a lot of Americans will be. And I wish Guy and his family a
happy Thanksgiving and hope that they do very best in being safe and
socially distance.

KURTZ:  Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

BENSON:  I agree with that.

KURTZ:  All right. Liz, Joe Biden has now been ratcheting up his rhetoric
this week about how President Trump needs to authorize a transition so he
and his team especially can get up to speed on these Pfizer and Moderna
vaccines that he will be in charge of distributing. And let's face it. The
media basically agree with him on this point.

CLAMAN:  Well, so on the business channel, on Fox Business, we covered
supply chain challenges and things like that. Howie, I can tell you, this
is a bear of an effort ahead. You've got to move this vaccine, millions and
millions doses of it. Scatter it throughout United States. And by the way,
a lot of the spiking cases are in red states the moment and rural areas.

So you've got to work on that. You've got to get national coordination
with, you know, freezers that that go down to 90, you know, minus 90
degrees. So you're looking at a very big challenge here. And there has to
be coordination, and with the GSA kind of MIA. And Emily Murphy who is the
one in charge and not really kind of making that happen that is of concern
to every American, I would say.

KURTZ:  We got to do. Huge challenge, thank you all, Liz Claman, Guy
Benson, and Harold Ford. Up next, we will drill down on the charges made at
that Rudy Giuliani press conference, including his attacks on the press.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  Rudy Giuliani made some far-ranging conspiracy allegations at that
rambling news conference that featured tense exchanges with reporters, and
some of the claims were a bit hard to follow.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN:  You should have asked me -- and you should be more astounded that
our votes are counted in Germany and in Spain by a company owned by
affiliates of Chavez and Maduro.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  Joining us now, Fox News correspondent, Griff Jenkins.
And Griff, when Giuliani talks about the late Hugo Chavez, when he talks
about George Soros, when Jenna Ellis also on the legal team talks about
communist money financing widespread election for -- what are they talking
about and are they providing evidence?

GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  They're not providing any evidence.
Good morning to you, Howie. And look, these are what they are, baseless,
unsubstantiated, wildly conspiratorial and serious allegations President
Trump's former cybersecurity chief that he just fired, Chris Krebs, called
it the most dangerous hour and 45 minutes in American television history.

But here's the thing. I just got off the phone with Jenna Ellis, a part of
that have legal team and said what do you have to say about these claims
that you have no evidence for. She says that, look, they do not intend to
file at any point in the coming days in court a complaint or lawsuit
related to these charges of a massive global conspiracy related to this
dominion voting system.

However, Ellis did tell me that they intended to push very hard on their
cases, particularly in Pennsylvania where they believe they have the
strongest case. Of course, we just had a judge yesterday rule that -- threw
out the Trump lawsuit, threw it out, saying that it didn't have merits. But
she says that it was a lawsuit that was not handled properly.

And they will be back, and they intend to carry this in the courts in
Pennsylvania and elsewhere, perhaps Michigan between now and December 14th.
But to be clear as it relates to Venezuela and Maduro and this Soros
conspiracy, they do not intend to legally challenge it.

KURTZ:  Well, thanks for that updated reporting, Griff. Earlier, we played
sound bite of Rudy Giuliani kind of laughing at a CNN reporter. Here he is
responding to a question from a reporter for conservative Daily Caller.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN:  We're not going to drag it out. I mean, this is ridiculous for
you to say we are dragging it out. Our witnesses don't want to be exposed
to the tender mercies of the vicious press.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KURTZ (on camera):  I just wanted to say it's not all liberal media. You
have Wall Street Journal's Peggy Noonan,  National Review's Rich Lowry
talking about Trump's ugly exit. They're mad at a lot of people in the
media right now.

JENKINS:  You know, look, this is becoming a bipartisan media issue with
everyone pointing it out. Liz Claman earlier was telling me, Howie, that,
you know, Tucker Carlson is even saying, look, Sidney Powell, if you don't
have evidence of this conspiratorial stuff, then get rid of it. And we saw
earlier today on some of the Sunday shows. 

You saw people like Chris Christie, big supporter of President Trump
saying, look, this is getting to the point now that it's going to be
embarrassing. You have an obligation to either present the evidence or, you
know, get rid of this and stop making this claim because it is going to
hurt serious reputations. 

KURTZ:  Yeah. And when Rudy says he has secret witnesses but can't share
them with what he calls the vicious media, I have to say it's very hard
then for the press to confirm these allegations. Griff Jenkins, thanks as
always. We really appreciate it. After the break, former CBS reporter
Sharyl Attkisson says the media are more interested in pushing slanted
narratives than pursuing the truth. And later, we'll talk to Geraldo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  We'll talk to Geraldo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera):  When Joe Biden took questions from handpicked reporters
in two sessions this week, they mainly asked about Donald Trump and why he
won't cooperate. NBC's Geoff Bennett set the tone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF BENNETT, NBC NEWS CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT:  What do you see as the
biggest threat to your transition right now given President Trump's
unprecedented attempt to obstruct and delay a smooth transfer of power?

UNKNOWN:  What is your message to Republicans who are backing up the
president's refusal to concede? How many (INAUDIBLE) do you think are at
risk here if this transition remains stalled?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWSHOUR:  What do you say
to Americans, especially immigrant Americans who came to the United States
looking for political stability and seeing all the things that the
president is doing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  Joining us now to talk about the media is our old
friend Sharyl Attkisson, author of the new book "Slanted: How the News
Media Taught Us to Love Censorship and Hate Journalism." A lot of people do
hate journalism these days.

Sharyl, based on those questions you just saw and some were about future
policies, which is totally appropriate, many were gold-plated invitations
to attack Donald Trump, do you believe the press is starting to hold Joe
Biden to the same standard as the incumbent president?
 
SHARYL ATTKISSON, AUTHOR:  There is no doubt that that is not the case and
probably not going to be the case.

I think beyond how this impacts a candidate or a political figure, there is
great harm being done to our industry and the public's ability to trust the
things that we report and trust that we are coming at news stories with a
neutral viewpoint and a fair analysis of what is going on rather than
trying to take one side or the other.

I think that is the problem when it comes to hard journalism.

KURTZ:  Sharyl, you've interviewed President Trump. In fact, he retweeted
you just this morning and you criticized the media's negative coverage of
him in many ways. Have the last four years radicalized you and your view of
the press?
 
ATTKISSON:  Well, I think I've just continued along a continuum that I
started looking at couple of years back when I saw political incorporate
interests really influencing the topics we do and don't cover on the news,
and then I tracked how they became commonplace in our news. In fact, we
started to hire some of these special interests, not just kind of do what
they say, but they are us now, in my view.

And then in 2016, I tracked with a lot of facts and footnotes and
citations, how the news media took leaps and bounds forward down this
devolution, as I call it, away from the standards and practices we have
long tried to follow to at least give a semblance of a firewall between
opinion and fact.

And we threw it out the window proudly and even cheered on by non-profit
news watchdog organizations, journalism schools, journalism professors --

KURTZ:  Right.

ATTKISSON: -- the New York Times, as if we were proud to do this. I see it
as a dangerous --

(CROSSTALK)

ATTKISSON:  -- public confidence and the things we report. Obviously, the
people see that differently but that is just from where I sit.

KURTZ:  Well, we want your take. Let me quote your book. You talk a lot
about the power of media narratives. You write, Trump is the vehicle that
the media at large has used to unleash its furor and redefine journalism.
What do you mean by that?

ATTKISSON:  Well, when you talk about me being critical of negative
coverage of Trump, I would word it a little differently. I have been
critical not that he has gotten negative coverage. I have been critical of
the double standard and the mistakes and the false news that has been
lobbed at him unquestioningly and unskeptically by a press that is very
anxious to take a side when it comes to this president uniquely like
they've done as far as I've seem to no other.

And I think this is something that if we step back, we would understand
this is harmful to us as a profession and the public confidence -- the
confidence the public has in what we are reporting and what we are doing
where since we appear to be taking sides so vehemently in many situations,
they come to distrust everything we report, even when we are telling the
truth or not taking a side, and then we turn around --

KURTZ:  Are you seeing that happen? Are you seeing that happen with what
might be considered legitimate reporting in this post-election period with
the president's tactics in contesting this election? Do you think the
media's loss of credibility is making people not believe even our straight
news reports?

ATTKISSON:  Some people, yes. You know, I think that there would have been
no harm for straight news reporters to not take a side in this, to let it
play out instead of saying one side is being ridiculous.

And lying and unpatriotic could not the neutral press that simply said,
here is what they say. And let the public determine what they think about
that. They may think it is ridiculous. They can think for themselves. And
then report what is known --

KURTZ:  Mm-hmm.

ATTKISSON:  -- about the other side and hold off on putting your own
opinions and disparagement because then, the press doesn't trust -- the
public doesn't trust in some cases the rest of what you say. They don't
know where the line is drawn because they think that you've got a horse in
the fight.
 
KURTZ:  Right. Two more things I want to get to. One is early in the
pandemic, early this year. The New York Times branded you one of five top
coronavirus doubters. You asked for retraction. What happened?

ATTKISSON:  Well, they misquoted me. They put false information in there.
It was outrageous. I had only done some factual reporting, actually very
little about coronavirus at that point in time. It mirrored much of what
the Times itself had reported. But there was clearly someone trying to get
a narrative out for some reason against me and other people, maybe ahead of
what they thought we might be covering.

And I had to hire a lawyer because the Times dug in their heels, didn't
care that there was false information and false quotes. The lawyer was able
to press them and get multiple corrections. Of course, many people don't
see the corrections. They only see the original report.

And as I write about in my book, that is mission accomplished for those who
try to press a narrative. They know that if they get the word out there
even if it is not true, by the time it is corrected --

KURTZ:  Yeah.

ATTKISSON:  -- a lot of people will never see that.
 
KURTZ:  Just briefly, you once worked at CNN. You quote one time CNN anchor
Lou Waters as saying I can't watch CNN, Walter Cronkite would roll over his
grave. And you contrasted the way you anchored there many years ago with
Anderson Cooper after a Trump news conference on his meeting with Vladimir
Putin. Explain.

ATTKISSON:  Yes. You know, we would wrap up a news conference with the
president and not even think about whether we liked him or not or agreed
with what he said. We would simply repeat factually a summary of what he
said compared to Anderson Cooper coming out of a Trump news conference
saying something like that was the most ridiculous, outrageous thing I have
ever heard.
 
KURTZ:  Disgraceful.
 
ATTKISSON:  And it just shows how far CNN has changed, how different it is
from what it was in 1990. We talk about that in the book with a lot of
interviews from CNN (ph), executives, news executives from the broadcast
networks who are as concerned as some of the rest of us about the turn news
has taken --

KURTZ:  Right.

ATTKISSON:  -- not just at CNN but across our industry.

KURTZ:  Yeah. Cooper actually used the word disgraceful. The book is
slanted. Good to see you, Sharyl Attkisson. Thanks so much for being here.

ATTKISSON:  Thanks.

KURTZ:  After the break, Geraldo Rivera weighs in on the Trump election
battle and his conversation with his old friend. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  Joining us now from Cleveland is a longtime friend of Donald Trump,
Geraldo Rivera, the veteran Fox commentator --

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE:  Hi, Howie.

KURTZ:  -- and reporter. And Geraldo, hi there. You spoke to the president
a little more than a week ago. You said he told you that he was -- quote --
"a realist and would do the right thing." Is he doing the right thing now
by continuing to claim that he won this election?
 
RIVERA:  Well, when we had the conversation, Howie, it really did seem to
me that he was grudgingly coming to the conclusion that he had lost the
election and that if the various lawsuits, etcetera did not play out, that
he would go along with the traditional process. That was totally my
impression, that he wouldn't be clinging to the resolute desk in the Oval
Office, that he would concede the election or at least go through with the
transition.

That was on a Friday, week ago Friday. On Saturday, if you recall, he went
to play golf and he drove through the crowds of supporters that had
gathered almost spontaneously there in Washington, D.C.

It just seemed to me that the love and the determination of his supporters
that was demonstrated there as he drove through the crowd, as he waived to
everybody, strengthened his resolve or at least changed his mind in the way
that made him much more defiant and much more resistant to what seemed
increasingly obvious, that he had lost the election, Howie.

KURTZ:  Well, you wanted him to win. There is no question. You described
him in this conversation as being angry, as being dissolution, as being
somewhat wounded. Do you think that your old friend now should graciously
concede this election?

RIVERA:  Well, yes, I do. You know, I want him to show grace and good
manners and honor the tradition. The election of 2020 is lost. I felt very
embarrassed watching another old friend, Rudy Giuliani and his team, Sidney
Powell and the others, in what seemed a bizarre and disconnected press
conference raising allegations that -- we are from the far side of the moon
as far as I was concerned.

I met Hugo Chavez. He couldn't make the traffic lights work in Caracas
during the time I knew him before he passed away. And George Soros, that
old (INAUDIBLE) again and, you know -- it just seemed the Clinton
foundation. I said, come on, this is this is silly stuff.

And I think that what it did was, you know, lower, in my view and I think
the view of many people who love the president, the whole position of a
noble well thought contest in which he defied the odds, he defied the
pollsters, he wounded the Democratic Party in a way that was very historic
profound even --

KURTZ:  Yeah.

RIVERA:  And when the circus came to town, it just seemed to me to be a
diversion from the noble image that I would like my friend to have as he
leaves office.
 
KURTZ (on camera):  Geraldo, let me play for you a clip that has got a lot
of attention, Fox's Tucker Carlson talking about his dealings with Trump
attorney, Sidney Powell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST:  We invited Sidney Powell on the show. We
would have given her the whole hour. But she never sent us any evidence
despite a lot of requests, polite requests, not a page. When we kept
pressing, she got angry and told us to stop contacting her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  Sidney Powell told Fox Business's Tucker was being
rude. He says even other Trump lawyers haven't seen her evidence. What is
your take on this latest twist?

RIVERA:  Putting aside Tucker's rudeness --

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA:  -- I think that is a different issue, I totally agree with him
substantively. Sidney Powell in that press conference was as disconnected
from reality as Rudy Giuliani was. In a way, they were enabling each other.

I thought when you -- I am a lawyer. I have been around. When Pennsylvania
dropped one of their suits in Michigan and the other legal dominoes started
falling, it became obvious pretty soon that we were not going to reverse
the results of the election. We are not Belarus. We are not Uganda.

We don't reverse presidential election unless there is some obvious and
easily provable reason for it to bring in this whole notion of, you know,
these mysterious forces, changing computes and -- it just -- it seemed
almost like, you know, a UFO kind of story, Howie.

KURTZ:  Right. I was just quoting Sidney Powell in terms of her dealings
with Tucker. By the way, you are getting a lot of mockery, as you know, for
suggesting that the vaccine that will finally come on to market should be
named after President Trump. I will give you a chance to respond.

RIVERA:  Well, my wife says that she is a Democrat, that we should name it
the Fauci.

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA:  I -- I -- you know, maybe I said it happened just when I said that
it should be called the Trump. But here is a guy -- at least it is a
consolation prize of some sort. There is no doubt that he was the driving
force behind Operation Warp Speed. Maybe his motives were political, that
he wanted it in time for the election so he could be see, I got you the
vaccine, I cured this awful global pandemic.

It did not happen. I think the politics did influence the timing of the
announcement of the vaccine. He should get some credit for it. I don't care
about mockery. Why do I care about Brian Williams and his opinion or Don
Lemon? They never said anything nice about me in the 51 years I have been
on and I am still on.

KURTZ:  All right.

RIVERA:  I mean, my 20th generation of (INAUDIBLE), and I am still here.

KURTZ:  I got it. I got 20 seconds. The Washington Post says the president
is talking about giving speeches, writing a book, maybe starting a network,
maybe running again in 2024. Do you think he knows that ultimately he has
lost this election?

RIVERA:  As I said, as he said, quoting him, he is a realist, he knows
everything we know. He is also a very proud man. He will come around. You
know, Thanksgiving is a good week for it to happen.

I think that all will be well. Biden will get all the info he needs if he
hasn't it already. We will go on. He will be the 46th president. We will
live happily ever after until -- don't think you have heard the last of
Donald Trump.

KURTZ:  All right.

RIVERA:  If you do, you don't know the man very well.

KURTZ:  I would never suggest that. But for now, we have heard the last of
Geraldo. Thanks very much for being here.

RIVERA:  Right. Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ:  Still to come, Christiane Amanpour sort of regrets her latest
attack on the president. Andrew Cuomo gets very testy with reporters. And
the White House press corps erupts at a COVID briefing. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera):  We told you last week that CNN's Christiane Amanpour
had outrageously compared the Trump presidency to Kristallnacht, the Nazis'
murderous rampage against Jews 82 years ago. After a fierce backlash, she
said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  It is the
event that began the horrors of the holocaust. I also noted President
Trump's attacks on history, facts, knowledge, and truth. I shouldn't have
juxtaposed the two thoughts. Hitler and his evil stand alone, of course, in
history. I regret any pain my statement may have caused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  Sorry, but regretting any pain I may have caused is not
an apology. Amanpour's words about Hitler will be on the pale yet to a
little media coverage and no public comment from CNN.

Andrew Cuomo became a media hero in the early days of the epidemic for
those bland and sometimes witty daily briefings, but New York governor is
taking a lot of heat for the pressure this week in which he scolded
reporters beginning with The Wall Street Journal correspondent who asked
whether he would intervene to close New York City's public schools the next
day.
 
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY):  First of all, let's try not to be obnoxious and
offensive in your tone, because you are 100 percent wrong. We did it
already. That is the law. An orange zone and a red zone. Follow the facts.

UNKNOWN (voice-over):  I'm just still confused.

CUOMO:  (INAUDIBLE) confused?

UNKNOWN (voice-over):  I think Jimmy is correct in asking that question. I
don't think it's obnoxious at all.

CUOMO:  Well, I don't really care what you think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  Cuomo is known as (INAUDIBLE) as the toughest nails
politician who pushes back against the press and we just got a glimpse of
that side of him.

Now, Cuomo, who disputes criticism that his policies contributed to nearly
7,000 nursing home deaths, has been awarded an international Emmy for his
masterful use of television at the briefings, which seems pretty odd until
you consider that this group is also under such liberals as Al Gore, Norman
Lear, and Oprah Winfrey.

Vice President Pence and the Coronavirus Task Force held their first
televised briefing in months after growing criticism in the White House.
And when they left without taking questions, the White House press corps
erupted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
 
(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN:  All of you need to answer this.

UNKNOWN:  Why is it that --

HUNTER WALKER, YAHOO NEWS REPORTER:  What is going on? You are not working
with the transition. You are all part of not recognizing democracy. You are
all undermining the democratic election, every one of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  That was Yahoo's Hunter Walker shouting you're all
undermining the democratic election. Look, I think they should have taken
reporters' questions. But some of that shouting didn't just look bad. It
sounded pretty partisan.

Rachel Maddow returned to MSNBC after self-quarantining, revealing that her
partner, Susan Mikula, had a very bad case of the virus and how much it had
shaken her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST:  Susan has been sick with COVID these past
couple of weeks. At one point, we really thought that there was a
possibility that it might kill her. Whatever you are doing, however you
calibrated risk in your life, don't get this thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera):  Well, I'm glad it turned out well. And yes, that advice
is spot on. Please, every one, please, take every precaution you can to
avoid this virus.

We are out of time. Thank you for watching. We try to get as much in on the
pandemic and the election and everything that we can to you. We are back
here next Sunday at 11:00 Eastern. See you then with the latest buzz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END

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