Published January 25, 2017
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," December 4, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: John Q. Kelly, you have a voicemail. Well, the lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family has been trying to get Aruban's chief prosecutor, Hans Mos. Well, Mos finally returned Mr. Kelly's call, and apparently left John Kelly a rather nasty voicemail. John Q. Kelly is with us.
John, let's get some timing, first of all. When did you send that letter asking to have the arrest? When was that sent?
JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR HOLLOWAY FAMILY: Eight days ago. It would have been last Wednesday.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Get a response?
KELLY: No response to the letter. First phone call back was today, my cell phone.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. When did you get -- when did you last make a phone call to Hans Mos?
KELLY: Yesterday morning.
VAN SUSTEREN: Before -- yesterday morning?
VAN SUSTEREN: And I take it you said, Call me back, right?
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So what was your voicemail that met you today? What'd you get?
KELLY: Oh, I wouldn't call it nasty. I would say it was curt. He was clearly angry. And it was just basically two things. One, he said it was unfortunate, what I said about him on your show the other night, which, whatever it was, I stand by it 100 percent. And the second thing was, basically, Don't hold your breath on the letter you wrote me.
But Greta, this is petty stuff. Let me tell you, there's incredible news out of Aruba and the Netherlands today. And I don't know if you're aware of it. The minister of justice, Rudy Croes, has now come out and publicly said that the police chief at the time in Aruba when Natalee Holloway disappeared, Jan van der Straaten, was clearly complicit with Paulus van der Sloot in covering up for Joran in the initial days after Natalee's disappearance. He's calling for a whole new investigation, and he's basically, by stating that, corroborating what Joran told you in talking to you.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, I'm delighted that the minister of justice is finally doing that. But any clue why he waited three-and-a-half years, when the trail is really cold?
KELLY: Well, it's remarkable. None of this is about Natalee and a missing young women, and you know, parents without child. It's a bunch of ego stuff right now. It's Van der Straaten apparently criticized the police investigators, his own investigators, this week. Rudy Croes in turn then came out and said, “What's Van der Straaten talking about?” He's the one that covered up with Paulus van der Sloot. We have a whole trail of phone calls between Van der Straaten and Van der Sloot in terms of what happened in the days after Natalee's disappearance. Van der Straaten, he went on to say, used his second-rate investigation team to -- to check into Natalee's disappearance initially and just, you know, covered the whole thing up, deliberately hindered the prosecution and investigation into Natalee's disappearance.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right...
KELLY: Between Paulus van der Sloot and the chief of police...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. You and I are having a nice, sort of calm-voice conversation, but the headline is the minister of justice in Aruba now admits there was a cover-up.
KELLY: Between the chief of police and Paulus van der Sloot, yes. For starters.
VAN SUSTEREN: And Hans Mos, his reaction to this is to leave you a voicemail saying he didn't like what you said on TV the other night and basically, “Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.”
KELLY: Right. And now we have more new evidence. We have clear evidence of the cover-up between the chief of police and Paulus van der Sloot in addition to the damning admissions made by Joran van der Sloot of criminal conduct, the kidnapping and trafficking and the implication of others.
You know what, Greta? Just going back to your conversation with Joran on tape, everybody's saying, Well, why don't you get an exemplar of Paulus's voice, and things like that. You know what? Hey, Paulus, why don't you stick your head out the front door and say, That's not my voice and I didn't have that conversation with my son, and end all this?
Kalpoes have been dead silent. Joran certainly hasn't come to bat for his father or anybody else in this thing. I know he's tuned into all this. And you know, it's just unbelievable. You've got a 21-year-old woman who might be out there terrified, helpless, being told nobody cares, nobody's looking for you, and you have all these people over in Aruba pointing the finger at each other now and forgetting about what it's all about.
VAN SUSTEREN: And it's, like, Holland, where are you? What's Holland doing? This is part of their kingdom. They're doing nothing. The prosecutor's now worried about you saying something about him not returning phone calls, and you've got the minister of justice admitting that there is a cover-up. Paulus van der Sloot won't give an exemplar and stick his head out the door. So basically -- I don't know. Shoot me, John. It's just, like -- I cannot believe the -- the...
KELLY: Oh, it's unbelievable.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Unbelievable cruelty on the part of all these people. Shame on them.
KELLY: And then, to end it all, Rudy Croes complained about the Netherlands not backing up Aruba, you know, with international moral support after he admits that his own police department was in a complicit cover-up.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, John...
KELLY: Greta, last thing. This is a stain on Aruba, a horrible stain...
VAN SUSTEREN: A stain? It's worse than that!
KELLY: It's getting...
VAN SUSTEREN: A stain...
KELLY: ... Bigger. It's getting bigger darker. They're the only ones that can clean it up, and they'd better do something soon because it's only getting worse.
VAN SUSTEREN: John, thank you.
KELLY: Sure, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Up next: As you heard, the justice minister of Aruba is admitting something disturbing, incredibly disturbing. He says there's a cover-up. Finally, this could blow the lid off this investigation if they'd ever get off their whatever and want to investigate. A live report from Aruba is next.
And then -- uh-oh! Nude photos of underage cheerleaders cause a huge controversy in Seattle. That's coming up.
VAN SUSTEREN: Finally, maybe, the Aruban Justice Minister is talking. It has been three and a half years. Joining by phone from Aruba is Jossy Mansur, publisher and managing editor of Diario Newspaper.
Jossy, what did the justice minister say, and does it have any impact whatsoever in Aruba?
JOSSY MANSUR, DIARIO NEWSPAPER IN ARUBA: He is saying a lot of important things that have a lot of impact in Aruba. He has openly and publicly accused the ex-chief of police that he refused to arrest Joran van der Sloot because he was the son of his best friend, Paulus.
VAN SUSTEREN: And does that make any difference to anybody in Aruba?
MANSUR: It does make a difference to many people here in Aruba, of course, because coming from the minister of justice, who was in charge of the police--he is the director of the police corps and (INAUDIBLE) that occupied themselves with the disappearance of Natalee. Of course it's important.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does he have any proof that the chief of police did this or that there was a cover-up?
MANSUR: He does not have any proof as such outside of other declarations(ph) of other people who have heard the same kind of statement before.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is our interview with Joran van der Sloot pushing any investigation further. Are they taking it at all seriously because they still haven't asked for it? They haven't asked for the records that we think could either prove or disprove. But is it having any impact whatsoever in Aruba?
MANSUR: I think it had a lot of impact worldwide. We saw this man lie again, lie his head off. He doesn't care if it's publicly or whatever. And I think that it has not stirred the prosecution to the degree that they should be after him by now.
VAN SUSTEREN: In the conversation that we had with Joran, he claims that the voice on the tape is his father. And obviously the prosecutor could prove that or disprove that. He could use subpoena power and do that. We can't get a first-generation tape from his father and do that.
Is it likely that the prosecutor will do that? Because, frankly, if it turns out that is his voice, his father under what he said is up to his eyeballs in something.
MANSUR: Of course. We know he was involved from the beginning. And after the new wave of things(ph), Mr. Herman, who saw Joran walking with his clothes all muddy. And then later he was saw him in the car with Paulus van der Sloot.
And we assume, and it has been certified by this man that the man who took Joran van der Sloot to his home that night after Natalee disappeared was his father. So he was involved from the beginning.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you, and we hope that there is a full, fair, and complete investigation some time. Thank you, Jossy.
VAN SUSTEREN: Let's bring in our panel. Joining us live are criminal defense attorneys Michael Cardoza, Ted Williams, and Bernie Grimm. Michael, do you want to start?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. Does this surprise me that there is something of a cover-up? No. It is a small island. What the minister of defense is saying makes absolute sense to me.
And we have known this right from the get-go. We knew there was some sort of delay, cover-up. They wait 10 days before they arrest Joran.
What should they do now? The Dutch really should step in. I am a little bit suspect of the minister of justice, because he waits this long to come forward and say something. Why did he wait this long?
Everybody is pointing fingers now at each other, but somebody neutral has to come in and resolve this. They have enough to prosecute this case. And this kid is hateful(ph).
VAN SUSTEREN: Michael, earlier this morning on Gretawire I posted asking them to contact the Dutch embassy to finally get them to do something. And a lot of people have contacted the Dutch embassy. I have to go back and read the comments, but the Dutch embassy here in the United States does need to since this is part of the kingdom.
All right, Bernie, this is what slays me, that Hans Mos is more concerned about what John Q. Kelly says on TV about him then even to look at the tape, investigate any of this stuff. It is stunning to me.
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It would be as if Eric Holder got offended that somebody said something about a department of justice investigation, a civil rights investigation in Mississippi, and he called the person and said, "Do not leave those messages. You are upsetting me."
I do not know what to say. I can't say it even on FOX, this racy, classy network, that I want to say.
But either the Dutch or the FBI, someone with some level of competence needs to get involved instead of us just playing tennis from the baseline here.
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I talked about the word "corroboration" in this investigation. Rudy Croes has come out, Greta, and represented that there was a cover-up with this Van der Straaten and Paulus.
Now, if you remember, a few nights ago, you interviewed someone who had gone down to Aruba who can corroborate, and this is what one of your viewers who came on this show said-Van der Straaten told us, he said, quote, "I do not think I could arrest my best friend's son. I am his godfather, and I honestly don't think he is guilty. He is a witness."
This was somebody independent of that island that you talked to on this show, and that person has now corroborated.
So there is some nexus, and I really believe that clearly there is a cover-up.
VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, what it is? Why won't they do this? You would think they have a sense of decency. There is a lot of missing persons all over the world, but they are worried about being insulted on TV.
GRIMM: It seems that they've dug their heels in, and Natalee has become the non-issue in the case. And their position and self- righteousness and soapbox position with the media seems to be what they are obsessing about.
VAN SUSTEREN: Maybe that's now, but go back to June '05. This was the same way in June of '05 before they even met us. It is stunning.
GRIMM: It is troubling. From the outset, when Van der Sloot and his boy said, "Listen. The black guys did it," after that everything was downhill.
WILLIAMS: Bernie, there's a bottom line here. The Dutch need to get involved. The Netherlands need to have an independent investigation. They cannot police themselves on that island.
VAN SUSTEREN: Michael, you have 15 seconds and we have to go.
CARDOZA: You know what's so hateful about this-
VAN SUSTEREN: A lot.
CARDOZA: --Is that this kid says-a lot, you're right-but this kid says that she's dead it, she died in his arms. And then later, he says, "Oh, no. She is alive, and she is in Venezuela." Think how the parents feel here. They ought to--
VAN SUSTEREN: Stop right there, Michael, come on. Then 30 days later he is having a conversation that's taped, and he's talking about her as though she's alive. And this prosecutor would not do anything. The police would not do anything. The minister of justice would not do anything. They have been dragging their heels.
VAN SUSTEREN: Holland is not doing anything. They're all doing nothing because they don't care and they want this to go away.
CARDOZA: They have enough to prosecute this case. They have enough to prosecute him now.
VAN SUSTEREN: They're worried about telephone calls -
VAN SUSTEREN: It's horrible.
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