This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 15, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Katie Pavlich, Juan Williams, Pete Hegseth, and she jogs on Google Maps, Dana Perino -- "The Five."
Senator Elizabeth Warren just released a campaign ad disguised as a DNA test or maybe it was a DNA test disguised as a campaign ad. In it she ladles her DNA results with somber relatives in music and even includes me. I'm touched. But that happens every time I take the subway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hear some of you are Republicans.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I am a Republican registered.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think of him calling her Pocahontas?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think it's ridiculous.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. I think it's silly.
GUTFELD: What does Warren translate into Cherokee as? Spreading bull?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: We did find five segments of Native American ancestry with very high confidence where we believe the error rate is less than 100,000.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS.: You know, the president likes to call my mom a liar. What do the facts say?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: The facts suggest that you absolutely have Native American ancestor in your pedigree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: So, her Native American ancestry may date back six to ten generations. She's potentially 1/1,024th Indian which is 0.09 percent. Using such standards, I'm Asian which is why I can't get into Harvard.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: So, no wonder she had to rely on sentiment and victimhood. But this isn't really about history but her story, and fixing it because it's a mess. Did she or did she not list herself as a minority in law school directories when it suited her, then removed it when it didn't? It's not about her background, it's about cheating. She's a white woman of vast European ancestry who went to the buffet of identity politics and took seconds then thirds. Warren is Native American because she said so. She wins the 2018 Rachel Dalziel award.
So, if we all do the same test as hers and find similar percentages, aren't we also eligible to claim the experiences of an oppressed group and their past grievances too? Her results now become the standard for anyone choosing a past that offers an edge, who can now skip ahead in admissions or jobs in places where diversity trumps experience.
And so, DNA tests become the new affirmative action, but at whose expense? Maybe no one because if we're all a little oppressed, we're all good. Goodbye, identity politics. If everyone is a minority, then nobody is.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Silver lining.
GUTFELD: There's a silver ling. I think she did the nation a service. We're all now Native American. Interesting fact from Michael Aaron -- Aries -- what's his name? The GOP spokesman. Dana, it used the New York Times sourcing, the average European-American is .18. So the average European-American is actually more Native American than she is.
PERINO: Wow.
GUTFELD: Did this backfire?
PERINO: I think a little bit. It is interesting that a lot of the media were treating this as her response to Trump, but remember she's going to have to get through a Democratic primary. And I imagine -- if it got down to the top ten.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: . that her opponents were going to use this -- Donald Trump wasn't going to have to do anything. So I think she's overreacting a little bit. To your point, she has never actually had to answer this question. Why did she not listed when she was applying to lower tier schools? Only listed it when she applied to the higher tier schools, and then did not list it after she had tenure. That is the part -- even if you are Native American, why did you listed when you only thought it was going to help you get an edge?
GUTFELD: Good points. Juan, do you think that this is about Trump or is it about the people she's going to have to face before Trump?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, I think it was about the effectiveness of the Trump attack, calling her Pocahontas and ridiculing her in that way, and so I think she wanted to respond. And now, I think it's like jiu-jitsu. She thinks that she has put the pressure on Trump. The key thing here for me is that when the papers then ask the folks at Harvard, did you, in fact, consider this when you hired her, they said no. And look at the University of Pennsylvania, in fact, I think they said at the University of Pennsylvania they filled out a form explaining why they hired a white woman over minority candidates. So the whole basis, the foundation of the Trump attack was, hey, you use this to get ahead falsely, right? And it turns out that's not true, in addition to which she has some Native American ancestry.
KATIE PAVLICH, GUEST CO-HOST: I would disagree with you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: OK.
PAVLICH: You're shock. But in 1997, Fordham University, the lower view describes Warren as Harvard law school first woman of color. So they had that cemented in their legacy. The funny thing about this today though for me was looking at the way the media reacted to this, before really looking at the study and going through the numbers, it was Warren verifies that she's Native American. And the Boston Globe goes through a series of corrections because first they were saying it was 1/30 second, then they go all the way to correcting it due to a math error and it turns out to be 1/1,024. And so, she's going down the line of the impossibilities of the point that you just brought up, Greg, in the sense that she's less Native American than the majority of Americans.
WILLIAMS: So do you guys think that she's owed a million bucks by Trump?
GUTFELD: I would actually say -- well, Pete, I would say -- I think it would be good for Donald Trump to donate that money, write it off, and then thank her -- thank her for saying -- she points out everyone in America is a Native American. She's done a service.
PETE HEGSETH, GUEST CO-HOST: Thank you for doing the work for me.
GUTFELD: Yes.
HEGSETH: She's got the money, do it. Why not?
GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
HEGSETH: And I can see the campaign t-shirts now, you know, wearing it. I'm black. I'm Hispanic. I'm Jewish. I'm whatever. And on the back it's just like .09.
GUTFELD: Yes.
HEGSETH: 1.3, 2.4, whatever you want to be. To your point, it is exploiting minority status. She did it. She did it time and time again. And what the president did was devastatingly lay out how she used it for own advantage. Continues to use it for own advantage. And now, she thinks she's getting ahead of it. No, no, no, no. She's creating more of a problem for herself. She can't get past it. This will make it worse.
PERINO: Also, she just have terrible political timing. So, 22 days until the midterm election, the Democrats are losing ground with many Republicans, but they still have an edge, especially in the house, not in the senate. But they're losing ground, but they have all this money. So they have all this -- they could have used all day today, all this week they could have been talking about that, but instead she had to release this today? Why couldn't you do it the day after election?
HEGSETH: They think it's great.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I don't think so. Most of the Democrats that -- like, Jim Messina, for example, who was Obama's communications person like pulling his hair out saying why would you do this today? It doesn't help any of the Democrats that are on the ballot.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: What I'm saying is that -- the story about the DNA test came the day after a Washington Post story about how great she's been to all these Democratic candidates. Once they win their primaries, she's there with a phone call of support with money. And so that was basically saying, well, like she's doing a lot to try to build up a lot of support within the party and then she does this.
PAVLICH: Well, and the thing is too, she's having serious problems on the left. If she thinks this is going to help her by claiming with unsubstantiated evidence really that she has minority status. On the left, that a problem with the intersectionality argument, the white woman trying to represent minority argument. So when she's up against people like Cory Booker, Kamala Harris. And on the right people are saying, look, you're a liar. You exploited this to get ahead just by you claiming that you didn't. There's all this evidence and a number of law reviews saying that you were chosen essentially, or at least stated on the fact that your name was listed as a minority as professor before you got to Harvard law. So she has problems on both sides of the aisle both in the primary for 2020 and in a general election.
WILLIAMS: But I must say on -- from the Democrats' perspective, I don't think you're right. But it's interesting to listen to how you Republicans are responding because.
PERINO: I was quoting Jim Messina.
WILLIAMS: No, no. Messina was saying the timing might be an issue, but not all of this, kind of, piling on. I mean, I think it's interesting, to my mind, what comes out is here's another Trump fallacy. Oh, Pocahontas. He likes to ridicule people.
HEGSETH: It's a 1 percent constitutes your ethnic background?
WILLIAMS: I don't care what it is. The fact is.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Because her family history -- her family history was that her great-grandmother was.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: She lied about it anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
HEGSETH: I don't think you can tell a folktale about my background and then pretend like it's true.
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. I'm just saying that was her family story. She didn't know, obviously, that's why.
PAVLICH: She knows now.
GUTFELD: Look, my 23 and me, to your point, has me at 2 percent Native American, which is actually more than her, so I'm welcoming her to my family. But to the point, and it's actually a bigger point. Is this the next step in affirmative action, DNA testing? So that every single person, when you're applying for college, you get the 23 and me.
PERINO: You don't just get to check the box. You have to send in your results.
GUTFELD: You have to send in your result. Yes, scary.
PERINO: I'm 1 percent Albanian, remember that from the 23 and me.
GUTFELD: That is true.
PAVLICH: I was too scared. I was actually sitting at my desk last night about to do that test that was sitting there for a year, and I got freaked out reading the terms of service, and I put it back, in fact, on the desk.
WILLIAMS: We always talk about identity politics at the table, but if you are applying, you really want to be white upper-class.
GUTFELD: Maybe not have gotten into the Harvard.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Harvard said that's not true. By the way.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: No, but I'm saying, University of Pennsylvania, Harvard say the same thing. And you said, oh, but Fordham listed said, oh, guess what, we think this woman -- but it didn't impact her ability to get.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: We're going to probably see how Harvard really thinks in this Asian discrimination case. We're going to see how they treat people for real because we're going to be covering that I think wall-to-wall, aren't we?
PERINO: It's going to be amazing.
GUTFELD: I know. All right. Some in the media are blaming President Trump for the disappearance of a foreign journalist. That's ahead. And don't forget to check out our social media for more behind-the-scenes action on "The Five.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: President Trump has ordered Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Saudi Arabia to meet with King Salman about the disappearance of a Washington Post columnist. This comes as investigators have begun inspecting the Saudi consulate in Turkey where Jamal Khashoggi was last seen entering nearly two-weeks ago. The president vows to get to the bottom of what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We are going to leave nothing uncovered. That being said, the king firmly denies any knowledge of it. He didn't really know. May be, I don't want to get into his mind, but it sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Meanwhile, CNN's Brian Seltzer suggest the president may be to blame for the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: To lower someone to a consulate to dismember the body and to take it back to Saudi. It is a crime of a different caliber. I wonder if you look at what happened in the last 12 days and you wonder if enemy of the people rhetoric, not just from President Trump, but also then from other world leaders, has anything to do with this, anything at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right, Katie, let me go to you first because President Trump, obviously, I think, taking it very seriously and that he's sending Secretary of State Pompeo, like, don't pack your bag, pretty much you're on the plane, right now you're headed to Saudi Arabia. Mike Pompeo probably on the ground.
PAVLICH: Absolutely. The stakes are extremely high. The Middle East has changed in terms of the alignment of where things are going. Saudi Arabia is depending on us in terms of the Iran deal. There're lots of things at stake here. And I have a feeling that Secretary Pompeo is going to go ask a lot of very serious, pointed questions. And if the Saudis did this, I know there's some reporting coming out from another network and the Wall Street Journal saying that the Saudis are now preparing a report saying that he came into the building, to the consulate, they wanted to interrogate him and accidentally end up killing him and never made it out of the consulate. Now, we still have to verify that here at Fox. But the point is that this could have been ratcheted up to an even higher level than what we've already seen. The stakes here are high both economically and in terms of national security and that's why Pompeo was sent on the plane this morning as soon as President Trump talk to King Salman from Saudi Arabia who denied it. So we'll see what happens. And I have a feeling we're not going to know all the details in the end of exactly what went down.
PERINO: But the Turks and the Saudis are supposedly working together on this investigation, Pete. And the thing is, like even with the Turks, sometimes, well, you don't get to pick your allies necessarily. Sometimes you have to have.
HEGSETH: Actually, the Turks are our allies at all.
PERINO: Well, that's my point.
HEGSETH: Yeah.
PERINO: That they are part of NATO which is the alliance.
HEGSETH: Which is part of the reason why NATO has become less and less relevant. Not that the whole alliance is but when you let in a country that's increasingly becoming a dictatorship and an Islamist country, -- you don't have a real alliance.
PERINO: But if you have an alliance with Saudi, I mean, is the same thing. My point is that sometimes your allies do things to you that will disappoint you.
HEGSETH: I don't think we know the two or three layers underneath this. I think it's not fair to call this a journalist pulled in and killed. We don't know what this guy may or may not have been doing on behalf of governments or not. He should have been killed either way. But any cover story that we're going to interrogate him and then we've accidentally killed him? Having been in interrogations, it takes a lot to accidentally kill a guy. So clearly that's a bad story to try to cover up. Clearly, something that was intended towards this guy from the regime.
PERINO: And if this story is the one that they eventually come out with, Greg, that they had lied to the world and to the president for about ten days beforehand.
GUTFELD: Yeah. I was more interested in, of course, the Stelter angle because -- you know, I remember President Obama mocking Romney about -- saying that Russia was a threat and then -- remember the whisper that was on the hot mic with Medvedev or whatever his name was, about, hey, don't worry. This was happening, you know, while Russian journalists were being murdered in scores, dozens.
PERINO: Apartment buildings.
GUTFELD: Exactly. I just don't remember Stelter blaming Obama for that. And also it bothers me because the Saudis have done a lot of bad things and we've talked about it on The Five, their treatment of gays, the treatment of women, obviously, they didn't start driving until this year. Thank you, Trump. It's a joke. The way they treat Jews, Christians, they myriad human rights abuses, these have been conveniently ignored. But then they get outraged because it's a journalist. It's one journalist. But what Stelter did was he revealed why. He could leak it to Trump. Like, if he could not link it to Trump, would he have actually brought this up? I don't think so.
I'm more interested in Raif Badawi, do you remember him? He was the blogger who had a religious freedom website and he was imprisoned for that by the Saudis. And he's been sentenced to ten years and a thousand lashes. Again, in Saudi Arabia, they still do the lash, OK? So while the journalists are really upset about this one guy, they've been doing this for a long time. And Raif is still in prison. He doesn't get enough attention. He's just a blogger and he's alive. And I think it would be great if Trump sent Pompeo and brought that guy back.
PERINO: Right. Juan, your thoughts.
WILLIAMS: Well, I thought, you know, to my mind, this is about money. And you see already big American corporations pulling out of the conference that was to be held in Saudi Arabia. And then you see the response coming from the stock market over there. The stock market over there went boom, went way down. And I think there's lots of concerned that the Saudis who now say that if there are threats against them, they will retaliate even more severe terms, Dana. And I think what they're talking about is economic retaliation against not only, potentially, the U.S., but the Germans, the French, who have said this is unacceptable. I think.
PERINO: It's not like the Saudi economy has a lot of room -- a lot of flexibility there.
WILLIAMS: No, but they have money and they can redirect their resources. But I don't know exactly how much they can do. Clearly, there's a deal on the table that I think concerns President Trump greatly to sell them some airplanes -- I'm sorry, armaments.
PAVLICH: But the bigger picture there is Iran, right?
WILLIAMS: So that.
PAVLICH: It's bigger than just the economy.
WILLIAMS: . on the table even as we're talking about American values killing your political critics. It's just wrong.
PERINO: They're threading the needle. All right, we've got to run. Trump touting a red wave in the midterms as some Democrats are now fearing a possible 2016 repeat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Three weeks from tomorrow voters head to the polls in one of our nation's fiercest midterm battles ever. President Trump touting Republican enthusiasm during his campaign blitz in battleground states. The president also ramping up his attack against Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If Nancy Pelosi --
(PEOPLE BOOING)
TRUMP: . crying Chuck Schumer and the radical Democrats take over congress, they will try to raise your taxes. They will immediately restore job killing regulations. They will destroy your second amendment and the Democrats want to open our borders to a flood of deadly drugs and ruthless gangs.
(PEOPLE BOOING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Speaking of Democrats, their new concerns the party overconfidence heading in to November. Some Democrats reportedly worried that they could see a repeat of 2016. Well, you know why that is because nobody predicted that Donald Trump was going to beat Hillary. What do you think?
PAVLICH: Well, there're a few people who did. So I want to give the people.
WILLIAMS: Who? I don't know. Who, the professor?
PAVLICH: Few people who did predict that he would beat her.
WILLIAMS: Did you?
PAVLICH: I did not. The majority.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Terry Sheppard.
WILLIAMS: I know that guy at American University predicted. But he also predicts that.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: What is the question?
PAVLICH: To answer your question, the majority of polling outlets had Hillary Clinton winning with a percentage of like 87 percent in terms of the chance she had to win. Those same polling firms like 538, they're saying the same thing today about Democrats beating Republicans. Now, that may be accurate, maybe they've change their.
PERINO: Well, that polling -- like there's no Electoral College in the midterm election. So the Electoral College was what? Helped President Trump get the victory because he knew what the actually game was and his team plotted out that version. So there's no Electoral College that can help the Republicans. They've got to do it on their own, but they're doing a lot better that they were.
PAVLICH: So the point is that the polling could be more accurate because it's per district, it's not for state across the country, the Electoral College. So that being said, there are lots of questions about what people are saying and who they're going to vote for. Independents are still very split. President Trump's numbers are up in terms of his approval. And it's very clear that based on his schedule, when the White House announced a couple of months ago he would be on the road three, four times a week doing these rallies, it was like, OK, it's a lot but it's paying off and people are paying attention. And his polling numbers are not only going up personally but he's actually polling up in numbers in a lot of these districts that he's targeting.
WILLIAMS: So, Pete, he's talking a lot about Brett Kavanaugh, a little bit about the economy. Not so much the tax cuts. What do you think of his rhetoric on the.
HEGSETH: No, I think he's setting the terms of the 2018 debate. I mean, you saw the gubernatorial candidate in Georgia talk about how undocumented immigrants are going to be part of the blue wave. And he looks at that and says no, no, no, no, we still believe in borders and citizenship and we're going to throw down on that and support our police and stand for the anthem. I don't think this -- the economic results are in and they're good for this president. This election is not about the economy in my opinion. It's still a cultural battle that's being fought. People feel like they're losing their country. They saw what happened to Kavanaugh, they're galvanized by it, 2018 feels a lot like 2016 because the elites are telling us that the polls are for the Democrats, but the pulse on the ground is that their still a belief that this president can deliver. It will be interesting to see in certain houses and senate races watching candidates who kind of technically support Trump versus candidates who have embraced him in suburban districts in which way it actually goes. I'm of the belief that embracing the president means you ingratiate yourself to your base which you need. And independents are more with Trump than we think. And trying to play the tap dance game never works.
WILLIAMS: All right. Dana, just picking up on what Katie was talking about. So we see in the Washington Post-ABC poll, the president's numbers went up.
PERINO: Yep.
WILLIAMS: I think they went up from 41 percent to -- from 36 percent to 41 percent. But that's still -- he's still underwater, 56 percent -- 54 percent disapproval.
PERINO: Right. But remember he won the presidency with the same approval rating. And Hillary Clinton -- he and Hillary Clinton had about the same approval rating going into 2016. Actually, I'm going to disagree a little bit, the poll actually show the Republicans are doing better in almost every way. And certainly.
HEGSETH: In news cycle than 16?
PERINO: Yes. And only in the last four or five weeks and that is partly because Republicans were a little bit late to come home than to focus on election. But in those states where the senate Democrats are running for reelection where Trump won, North Dakota, Missouri, Tennessee, the Republican are starting to pull away. And so, I think, that those things look a lot better. There's one poll today that shows the Republicans are actually right neck and neck with Democrats for the house seats as well. So, who knows what will happen. And that's why we'll be here to bring it all to you. But the polls look a lot better for Republican today than they did a month ago.
WILLIAMS: Greg, culture wars?
GUTFELD: I think so. I don't think it's about policy or politics, the personality because the policies are working, and so the Democrats have to boil it down. So what if he's made America great. He's still a big jerk. I don't know it that's going to work. The hard part for Republicans a Trump presidency is like -- is measured in dog years. It's like for every one thing that happened in the Obama White House every day, there are seven things that happen every day in a Trump White House. So Obama might have eaten a dog, but Trump is a dog. And he's always out doing something. And -- and that's people are going to tend to forget about the Kavanaugh stuff, maybe in two weeks.
PERINO: I don't think so. I think it was -- I -- David French had a piece this weekend that the Kavanaugh hearings and confirmation was more divisive than the 2016 election.
GUTFELD: Perhaps.
PERINO: Because it shone a bright light on where the divisions actually are. And I think that it did bring a lot of Republicans -- it reminded them why they were Republicans in the first place.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: And I think they that are starting to see that especially in those Senate races.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yes, I think enthusiasm on the Republican side is definitely up. Although I saw a poll today -- I think it was The Washington Post -- that had Democrats in the generic up 11, which again would be a jump, so --
PERINO: It could happen.
WILLIAMS: We don't know. We don't know.
PERINO: And also they -- and also the Democrats have registered a lot more new voters.
PAVLICH: True.
WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton facing backlash from both sides of the aisle for dismissing her husband's affair with Monica Lewinsky. How can this be? Details straight ahead on "The Five"."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAVLICH: All right. Well, Hillary Clinton's shameless hypocrisy is hitting new heights, as if we thought that couldn't happen. The self- proclaimed feminist is making controversial comments that fly in the face of the #MeToo movement. Clinton is now defending her husband's infamous affair with former former White House intern Monica Lewinsky.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In retrospect, do you think Bill should have resigned in the wake of the Monica Lewinsky scandal?
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't an abuse of power?
CLINTON: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are people who look at the incidents of the '90s, and they say a president of the United States cannot have a consensual relationship with an intern. The power imbalance is too great.
CLINTON: Who was an adult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: So Dana, your response?
PERINO: Well, I just remember -- I'm going to date myself a little bit but in 1997 when this was going down, I was a staffer on Capitol Hill, and I remember thinking, "Wait a minute. She was the intern. And I took -- this was wrong." And I knew that it was wrong. And I remember the feminist organizations not defending Monica Lewinsky. Remember, of course, how they tried to discredit not just Lewinsky. They called her a looney tunes. Not to mention Juanita Broaddrick and the other accusers.
I also feel like she undercut the abuse of power position that has been used in sexual harassment cases in the workplace that was the entire basis of the #MeToo movement. And I think she's been on record saying how important that movement has been, but she undercut the entire thing.
Look, her road-show with Bill Clinton is going to be fascinating. And we will be able to get, probably, a block out of it for the next 365 days.
PAVLICH: Greg, your thoughts?
GUTFELD: Well, first of all, I read that Bill Clinton was also about to do 23andMe until he found out it wasn't a dating site.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: And this -- by the way, this whole thing with Monica Lewinsky isn't a first. If you Google Mimi Alford, similar story happened under JFK. It was an intern that he deflowered, I guess, in his swimming pool. Am I right?
PERINO: I think that sounds right.
GUTFELD: If not, I probably dreamt it.
PAVLICH: I'm not going to fact-check that, but I will assume you're correct.
GUTFELD: To your point, no feminist would agree with what she said, because in the mind of the feminist, it's all about the power structure, not about age. It's that, you know, here you have a very powerful man and a powerless woman.
But you're talking to the wife. And a wife has a different way of looking at things. She's -- she's thinking that it's entirely possible that the 22-year-old knew what she was doing. That's how a wife would look to defend her husband. So I also see that; I see her point of view. I can't believe I'm actually defending Hillary here, but she's basically saying that that woman -- "that woman," to quote Clinton, had a choice. She had a choice in this matter, too.
PERINO: That's a hypocrite.
GUTFELD: No, it is. But you know what? Humans are hypocrites when it comes to this stuff. When it happens to you, you and your wife, or you always change the rules.
PAVLICH: But Pete, the question is, you know, the power structure, of course, is a problem. The definition of sexual harassment is using a position of power to get what you want sexually out of someone who has less power than you do. The president of the United States with an intern, even if she's an adult, of course is a perfect example of that situation.
But as we've seen on the left, the power structure only really matters depending on the political outcome. The reason why feminists defended Clinton in the '90s was because he believed in abortion, so they defended him. And now that we have, you know, different scenarios and different situations, they tend to have a different view of things. And so I'd like your opinion on how you feel about this --
HEGSETH: It's actually amazing, how much of it comes back to those cultural flashpoints.
PAVLICH: Right.
HEGSETH: Where do you stand ideologically on the things that I say I believe in? And as a result, I'll decide whether I believe you or don't believe you.
So Hillary Clinton says, "I believe all women except those women who -- who said that they were raped by my husband. And I'm not going to believe them, and I'm going to deny them. And not only am I going to deny them, I'm going to shame them publicly," which she did multiple, multiple times.
Of course power dynamics are here. She made a bargain a long time ago. "I stay with my husband. I get to run for president. I get to lose twice. Now I get to go on tour with him and continue to pretend like I'm happy to be there."
Listen, it's all speculation. I hope they have a great marriage. You know, I'm not -- I don't disparage them that. But that bargain was made, and she every day has to walk that line. And it looks like blatant hypocrisy.
PAVLICH: Juan, what about Hillary's role? Because every time Hillary opens her mouth, it's a gift of the Republican Party, especially before a midterm election. She's not being helpful on the #MeToo issue at this point. So what's the end game for her? Is it all really just about herself, or do you think it does benefit the Democrat Party in some way?
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think it benefits Democrats. And I think people -- we were talking about timing earlier with Messina's comments about Elizabeth Warren.
But I think David Axelrod was onto this one when he said, hey, this is not what Democrats want to be talking about.
I think my -- my point here would be, look, I think she was asked if her husband should resign. And she said definitely not, because -- and this is according to Monica Lewinsky -- it was a consensual affair. Nobody ever said this was sexual harassment. This was Monica was interested in --
PAVLICH: But I have to -- Monica Lewinsky came out in a piece for the Vanity Fair and said, look, at the time, yes it was consensual, but there was -- looking back on it now --
WILLIAMS: Yes, that's what --
PAVLICH: -- the power structure of it doesn't exactly make it consensual. He really doesn't.
WILLIAMS: No. I think -- well, I agree with that. Well, that's what -- you have to look back, though, Katie. Right? So she said at the time it was consensual. That's why it didn't fall into that larger category.
But I'm of a mind that, if you go back to the Kennedy -- go back to just throughout history. People have different responses at different times. We're at a Me Too -- hashtag #MeToo moment right now. Remember Kavanaugh, in the midst of his hearings, he was blaming the Clintons. He said, "Oh, this is payback for the Clintons." That was nonsense.
GUTFELD: But you -- the point that you're making is, I think, really important. It was a consensual relationship and when things are consensual, the luxury of then changing your mind looking back. It's not fair. To your point, if two people are in a relationship and then all of a sudden, years later they go, "Looking back on it, I was in -- "
PAVLICH: I think that -- I think that's a fair point to make. However, the bigger argument of feminists at the time and still today, fighting sexual harassment on the definition of someone with power --
PERINO: Yes.
PAVLICH: -- using that power against someone who doesn't have any. And when you have the president of the United States against an intern.
WILLIAMS: Not against.
PAVLICH: Setting the bar.
WILLIAMS: I don't know about "against."
PAVLICH: Of course against.
WILLIAMS: Look, you could argue she was interested in having access to the president.
PAVLICH: He was leveraging -- he was leveraging his power to -- against a young woman, as he did against many women.
WILLIAMS: But I think that women can also absolutely be entranced by a powerful man.
PAVLICH: But the boader problem, I would argue -- and I'll let Dana get the final word -- is the feminist argument of what the definition of what sexual harassment is and excusing it for Bill Clinton while not --
PERINO: Well, let's be very clear. If I had said this or let's just say if Ann Coulter had said this, everyone on the left would have come out and, like, wanted her head on a stake.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Hillary Clinton says it, and all of them are silent? That's ridiculous.
GUTFELD: Good point.
PERINO: And that's been going on since 1997. And they have to keep revisiting it, because they didn't deal with it then. They didn't deal with it appropriately then. They're not dealing with it appropriately now. Every single interview that they give they have to answer for it again. So once -- over and over again.
Why do you think you lose? This is exactly why you lose. I've been mad since 1997.
PAVLICH: -- about it often, so says a lot.
But coming up, anti-Trump celebrity Alec Baldwin ratchets up the rhetoric by urging fellow Democrats to overthrow the government. Up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
HEGSETH: I can't name this song, but I should be able to. Greg?
GUTFELD: I don't know either.
HEGSETH: No, I don't either.
All right. After rolling out his Trump parody again on "Saturday Night Live" this weekend, Hollywood hothead Alec Baldwin -- that's an official title -- headed to a Democratic fundraiser in New Hampshire to double down on the left's divisive rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC GUINNESS, ACTOR: We need to overthrow the government of the United States under Donald Trump.
Not -- not in any violent or unlawful way, but it must be overthrown nonetheless.
Let's make America great again by making Donald Trump a casino operator again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: So a lawful overthrow? Juan, I'm going to go to you. So whether it's regime change or harassing or confronting or an illegitimate administration, the left finds every verb they can do to define this administration. Are they going too far?
WILLIAMS: No. No, he's very careful. In fact, he said the way that we overthrow governments in this country is at the ballot box.
HEGSETH: Why didn't he just say, "Then vote"? Why is it always "overthrow"?
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Pete, in the age of Donald Trump, you're complaining about hyperbole?
PERINO: Yes.
HEGSETH: That's a fair point. Fair point. But what do you think? I mean, this is -- Alec Baldwin plays Trump on "Saturday Night Live." He makes a caricature of it. And he walks out in a serious way on the campaign trail and makes a similar argument.
PAVLICH: I will say, asking for civility or political correctness in terms of language is one thing, but we have a record now of Democrats, a Democrat shooting up a baseball field. Republicans who have -- Democrats like Maxine Waters telling people to get out in the streets and get up in the faces of Republicans. When we see them -- we've seen Ted Cruz attacked at a restaurant. A number of officials in the Trump administration.
And that's the problem here. It just adds onto this frenzy of real physical behavior that we've seen. And he's not doing anything to help kind of bring the temperature down, tell people to get out to vote. We don't really want violence. Just condemn the violence that we've already seen. So you know, that is where we are.
WILLIAMS: You should mention this to your "lock her up" friends.
PAVLICH: Which ones? Which ones?
HEGSETH: Well, she's not currently locked up.
(CROSSTALK)
HEGSETH: -- but some of us.
Anyway, this kind of rhetoric, OK, out-of-bounds, inbounds? What do you think?
PERINO: Well, I'm not -- I don't really judge the rhetoric that badly. Basically, it's saying overthrow nonviolently, which means, like basically, get out there and vote.
I do think that it was instructive. He's in New Hampshire. He's doing a fund-raiser. Because we are -- we are talking about the midterms, but we're actually already talking about the 2020 election. They're in New Hampshire for a reason. Mike Bloomberg was there. He's planning to run as a Democrat in 2020. They could have 35 candidates. So, you know, get ready --
PAVLICH: Buckle up.
PERINO: -- for your rhetoric meter to be off the charts.
HEGSETH: Pegged, absolutely.
So Alec Baldwin says if he ran for president, Greg, he would win.
GUTFELD: See, this is the thing that bugs me. Like, I agree with Juan. I don't have a problem with heightened language. Because drain the swamp, it's an analogy. It's not like D.C. is filled with alligators, but he's saying that there are Republicans and Democrats who are swamp rats, and swamp creatures. So I'm OK with it.
And the only issue is that, because the left traffics in radical revolutionary rhetoric --
PAVLICH: Right.
GUTFELD: -- overthrow probably not the best term. But still, it's just heightened rhetoric that is tied to the ballot box, as you say, I don't see it as a big deal.
However, I'm tired of him saying that, if he ran, he would win, because he's a real wuss, if he believes that to be true. That's my heightened rhetoric. He is a wuss for saying that he could win and then not running. Because if you believe you can win, throw your hat in the ring, Alec.
In fact, I think that would be a really good thing for him. It would be exciting and interesting, and he's kind of outside of the box. He's their Trump. He says a lot of incendiary things. He's had TV shows, talk shows. He foments controversy.
PERINO: He never said he was Native American.
GUTFELD: He never said he was -- and he is more Native American.
PAVLICH: Because we're all Native Americans now, according to the data.
GUTFELD: And what a great first family if he wins.
HEGSETH: It would be amazing.
GUTFELD: Stephen Baldwin showing up.
HEGSETH: Juan, what do you think? I mean, add him to the list on the Democratic ledger?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I mean, entertaining. I think what Greg is saying is that this would be a wildly entertaining contest.
And so there was a piece I saw today that's talking about, oh, so that's where we are. We're in the age of celebrity politics. So you could have the Rock. You could have Oprah Winfrey and Alec Baldwin, right? But I mean, what does this say about us as a country? That's who we pick to be our leader?
You love it. You love it.
HEGSETH: You don't have to raise $1 billion to raise your name I.D., but you already have 100 percent name I.D. That's a pretty good advantage. I mean, that is where we are. We live in a media world where people have to know where you are.
WILLIAMS: So the media landscape determines your leader. It's like the tail wagging the dog. It's like, you know, you guys are so hard on Avenatti, that lawyer. Avenatti says this --
HEGSETH: You'd rather just compare old-fashioned resumes?
GUTFELD: We have "One More Thing."
HEGSETH: We do?
GUTFELD: Yes.
HEGSETH: Let's do it. Up next, "One More Thing" on "The Five."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: All right. Halloween is upon us. I hate Halloween costumes. They're so boring, and they objectify my body.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: So I thought we'd have some costumes. This is from "The G.G. Show" that we offered that are fair and balanced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Introducing the FOX News Favorite Faces costume collection. Like the Brian Kilmeade. This costume comes complete with dark jacket, light shirt, khakis and a bold but tasteful tie.
Or how about the Steve Doocy? With this awesome-looking dark chocolate, light shirt, khakis and a bold but tasteful tie.
We've even got Tucker Carlson with his one-of-a-kind dark jacket, light shirt, khakis and a bold but tasteful tie.
Then try the Greg Gutfeld.
(GUY IN A SWEATER VEST, ON HIS KNEES)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: That was mean.
All right. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, it's a fun Saturday afternoon for me in Washington, D.C., this weekend. I spoke at the Newseum about my new book, "What the Hell Do You Have to Lose? Trump's War on Civil Rights." Here are some pictures from the event.
As you can see, I was interviewed by John Maynard of the Newseum. It was a great turnout, people from all over. Fans of "The Five" a major presence. Thank you so much.
Here I am signing books, talking to some folks. In addition to enjoying the book talk, though, lots of people had questions about the Newseum and the state of American journalism today, covering President Trump. It's difficult.
Anyway, it was a great afternoon. My thanks to the Newseum and to John Maynard.
GUTFELD: Great.
PAVLICH: Very cool.
GUTFELD: Dana.
PERINO: OK. So Chris Stirewalt has two boys, and they came to visit me last week and brought me these amazing things. Like, the seasonal flavored M&Ms. So I went and I got some for everybody.
This one here would be Neapolitan. OK? You can open these up and try them here. We've strawberry nut.
GUTFELD: Strawberry nut?
PERINO: Let's see, which one's this one? No. 3, raspberry.
Greg, I'm going to get you these, because I think you're going to like these. Mint chocolate chip.
GUTFELD: Oh, yes. That's going in my pocket.
PERINO: Those are really good. Espresso, anybody want espresso?
GUTFELD: Those are great.
PERINO: And how about this? White pumpkin pie. Anybody like that?
GUTFELD: White?
PERINO: White chocolate pumpkin pie.
GUTFELD: That's very alt-right.
PERINO: I'm 2 percent pumpkin pie.
I don't know what that is. Can I have some of -- wait, you took them?
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: We have to share them. Anyway, they're really good. I can't get enough of the mint ones. Thank you to the Stirewalt boys.
GUTFELD: All right. What, did they make them?
PERINO: No, they bought them and brought them to me as a gift.
HEGSETH: If you made M&Ms in your basement, you might have copyright problems. Just a little bit.
GUTFELD: Exactly. Pete, you're next.
HEGSETH: Am I next?
GUTFELD: Yes.
HEGSETH: All right. So I've never been to a Foo Fighters concert, but I'm a big fan. I'm told the concerts are always a big -- full of surprises. They were at the Sprint Center in Kansas City. And they pulled up a 10- year-old -- his name is Collier Rule -- onstage to play Metallica, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: "ENTER THE SANDMAN")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Juan's asking the right questions. That's just a 10-year-old from the audience.
PERINO: Wow.
HEGSETH: Handed -- Dave Grohl handed him his guitar. He immediately started playing, "Enter Sandman."
PERINO: Wow.
HEGSETH: And the band played it with them. The kid says, you know, "Metallica knows who I am now. Foo Fighters know who I am. Dave Grohl gave me his guitar. I played in front of the Sprint Center. I think my bucket list is done."
Amazing!
PAVLICH: A multi-million contract now.
HEGSETH: But they gave him the guitar, and he just started to play.
GUTFELD: Do you think that's because they learn from the Internet now? They just learn From YouTube?
HEGSETH: "Guitar Hero."
GUTFELD: "Guitar Hero"?
PAVLICH: Maybe.
WILLIAMS: We need more guitar players.
GUTFELD: Yes, definitely. Katie.
PAVLICH: All right. So last week I was in Israel visiting the borders of Syria, Lebanon and Gaza. So I have some photos for you. I was there for a fact-finding mission through the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
Here's the separation wall with the West Bank and -- and Judea Samaria. This is obviously the Western Wall and the Al Aqsa mosque. This is a view into Lebanon. Those hills you can see in where Hezbollah has lots of rockets pointed at Israel. This is a sign next to the Syrian border.
And also, we have some photos of a fence. We went to a kibbutz, which is a little neighborhood right next to Gaza. And as you've seen with the reporting from Trey Yingst there in Israel, there has been lots of rioting. And they think things are going to start heating up even more than they already have.
So we were there getting some interesting information and briefings from officials as things get heated up, as we like to say. So thank you to FDD for taking us on that trip and giving us some information.
HEGSETH: Cool.
GUTFELD: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.
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