Ups and Downs for the Week of April 8 - 12

This partial transcript of The Beltway Boys, April 13, was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House. Click here to order the complete transcript.

MORT KONDRACKE, CO-HOST: Let's go down – to – go to the Ups and Downs.

Down: the European Union

KONDRACKE: Down, the European Union. With Germany taking the lead, the European Union stakes out a decidedly anti-Israel position, threatening economic and military sanctions, and even recalling ambassadors from Israel. Even Powell didn't exactly pour cold water on the idea of economic sanctions against Israel if Sharon doesn't back down. Watch this.


POWELL: Well, I'm hoping for success in my mission, so it'd be premature and rather hypothetical to speak about what other actions the United States might take, either alone or in coordination with our partners.


KONDRACKE: That's pretty weak.

FRED BARNES, CO-HOST: Yes. I'll say.

KONDRACKE: Now, look, the United States is fundamentally pro-Israel because of democratic values that we share, and also because of the influential Jewish community in this country. There aren't that many Jews in Europe. Guess why? you know. I mean, and you would think that the Europeans, out of guilt over the Holocaust, would sympathize with Israel.  But that's not the way it works.

I mean, partly because they're afraid of their own growing Muslim population, and partly, I think, out of sheer moral bankruptcy.

BARNES: What was that again, moral bankruptcy?

KONDRACKE: Moral, moral bankruptcy. I think that's what...


KONDRACKE: ... Europe is.

BARNES: Well, I certainly agree with that. And these European governments have either embraced Yasser Arafat or at least are endlessly tolerant of, of everything he does.

Now, Mort, here's – my question is this. Are, are their heads so in the sand that, for instance, they didn't hear about all this evidence that the Israelis have gotten from raiding Palestinian Authority offices in the West Bank that directly implicates Arafat in terrorism, planning terrorism, and paying terrorists? Don't they know about this? Or do they just want to ignore it?

KONDRACKE: Yes, they want to ignore it, of course.

BARNES: All right.

Up: Cloning ban advocates

BARNES: Up, cloning ban advocates. It's still too close to call in the Senate, but cloning ban advocates got a lift this week from President Bush and the Senate's only doctor, Bill Frist. Here's Bush and Frist tackling both the moral and scientific arguments.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Human cloning is deeply troubling to me and to most Americans. Life is a creation, not a commodity.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: Can one truly be an advocate for stem cell research and at the same time oppose human cloning experimentation?  After an in-depth study of this issue from a policy standpoint, from the standpoint of being a United States senator looking at that legislation, as a scientist, from a medical standpoint, I believe the answer to this question is yes.


KONDRACKE: Look, nobody is in favor of cloning babies. But I'm in favor of cloning embryos to cure diseases like Parkinson's, which my wife has, and cancer and spinal cord injuries and heart disease.

Now, the – there are 40 Nobel laureates that also spoke up this week.  And what they said is that if you are going to get a stem cell transplant, you're – it's much safer if you use stem cells derived from – with – that has your own DNA that won't be rejected, than it is if you get, get somebody from – get material from a foreign source.

BARNES: Yes, there's some studies that disagree with that.

Now, I tried to count the votes on where they are now on either banning all cloning or just banning reproductive cloning. And I don't think either side is much closer than 10 votes to getting a majority.

You know, I favor a ban on all human cloning. But it looks to me, you see looming out there, a moratorium, perhaps a five-year moratorium on all cloning while other promising alternative medical research avenues are pursued. That could happen.

KONDRACKE: Yes, I think, I think we need to go ahead with the research.

Down: Boston archbishop Cardinal Bernard Law

KONDRACKE: Down, Boston archbishop Cardinal Bernard Law. Law ignores the drumbeat for his resignation despite new documents showing that he allowed a known pedophile to continue working with children.

BARNES: Yes, Mort, all the world has heard your denunciation of the Catholic Church's handling of pedophile priests, and no doubt Cardinal Law is probably the worst offender in this, and I suspect regardless of what he says now, that he's going to have to resign sometime pretty soon.

My worry is the one I've had all along, and that is that the enemies of the Catholic Church will use this scandal to tarnish and defame Christianity itself, because I think that's their aim.

KONDRACKE: Look, the way to disarm the enemies of Christianity and the Catholic, the Catholic Church is to reform this, fix it now, and get, get it out of the way. And the responsibility for this goes to the top.  Cardinal Law is protecting pedophiles, but Pope John Paul is protecting Cardinal Law. He's – it's up to the pope to reform the system.

Up: Ozzie Osbourne

BARNES: Up, Ozzie Osbourne. The over-the-hill rocker and his eccentric family shocked the world with their new reality-based TV show on MTV. And viewers love it. <I>The Osbournes attract up to 5 million viewers a week and shows the former Prince of Darkness as the new prince of parenting.

Now, Mort, did that – when you watched the Ozzie Osbourne show, do you think of your family and so on? I don't.

KONDRACKE: Scarcely.

BARNES: Yes, I don't either. What, what the idea of this show is that the Osbournes, this rockers, drugs and all this stuff all his life, they – he and his wife face the same job – tasks in parenting that you – that everybody else does. I don't think their solution is widely practiced, though. Their solution seems to be to use the F-word as many times as possible in dealing with your children.

KONDRACKE: Yes, well, look, I frankly think that this is a freak show designed by MTV to make fun of, of responsible parenting. I mean, here you've got a guy who can't walk, is covered with tattoos because of drug use, and, you know, and he's sort of fecklessly trying to get his kids to...


KONDRACKE: ... listen to what he says. Meanwhile, one of his kids is using drugs, the other one has fuschia hair, and, you know, and, and nobody's listening to him, they're all using the F-word.

BARNES: Yes, what kind of hair was that?


BARNES: All right. Well, I (UNINTELLIGIBLE) – 5 million viewers, though. I don't get it.

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