U.S. Pullout of Racism Conference Debated on FNC

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This partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, September 5, 2001 was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House.

Send your comments to: hannity@foxnews.com or colmes@foxnews.com

COLMES: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes.

And coming up: Now that Congress is back in session, is it business as usual for embattled Congressman Gary Condit?

Then: Mexican president Vicente Fox told President Bush he wants to make it easier for Mexicans to come into the United States. Is that a good idea? Sean goes one on one with Dick Morris.

But first, in the battle zone this Wednesday: The United States pulled out of the U.N. conference on racism in South Africa this week to protest Arab efforts to punish Israel. Secretary of State Colin Powell, who boycotted the conference, sending another U.S. delegation, said final declarations from the meeting contained hateful and abusive language toward Israel, and he had no choice but to call the delegation home. Did the U.S. do the right thing?

Joining us from Washington is activist Kevin Martin and syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux.

Good to see both of you.



COLMES: Kevin, let me begin with you, since you gave me that nice robust "Hello." I fear that we look like we are afraid to confront some of the ugliness from our own past. For example, accusations that we were too soft on slavery at one time in our history. We know it happened in this country. By pulling out of this conference, it seems like we're not willing to face the tough questions about our own bad behavior. What's your response?

MARTIN: Well -- well, you know something, Alan? I'm going to sum it up just like this. The only thing that was missing at that conference was a bunch of white sheets and a burning Star of David in the background.

COLMES: Oh, come on. Oh, come on.

MARTIN: No, no, no, no! Hold on, Alan! OK, some of the hateful rhetoric that came out of Arafat -- I mean, who wrote his speech, David Duke and Robert Byrd?

COLMES: Look, I will grant you -- I will grant you there was that kind of hateful rhetoric. But the idea of a conference like that is to confront that rhetoric and to meet it with our own rhetoric, not to take

our bat and ball and go home because we don't like the way they're playing.

MARTIN: But Alan...

COLMES: This is a tough conference with tough issues. We look more like an isolationist nation, not part of the global community, when we pick up and go home because we don't like what somebody is saying.

MARTIN: Alan, we -- we protested these -- we -- we boycotted these conferences in '78 and 1983...

COLMES: Right. That was a mistake.

MARTIN: ... OK, for the same -- for the same type of rhetoric. The State Department knew two weeks going into this meeting that the rhetoric was not going to be changed. Colin Powell was not going to go. Israel is our No. 1 ally in the Middle East and the only true democracy in the Middle East. And for Yasser Arafat to stand there and say that Israel is a racist state, when he's sending daily suicide bombers dressed as Hasidic Jews into Jerusalem to blow themselves up -- suicide bombing is the worst type...

COLMES: Of course!

MARTIN: ... of hate crime out there.

COLMES: No one's arguing that, Kevin, but I think...


COLMES: ... Julianne, the thing is, we need to stay in the game. In fact, had they sent a higher-level diplomat -- if not Colin Powell, someone close to his level -- maybe some of that language would not have been there and it would have been less confrontational if the United States had given this conference a little bit more respect by sending a higher-level person. What about that?

MALVEAUX: Let's look at it. We have committed only $500,000. If you compare that to the Beijing conference, women in 1995, when there were about $5 million committed -- we sent a deputy assistant secretary, Michael Southwick (ph) -- I've never heard of this guy before -- a deputy assistant

secretary as delegation leader. Even as delegation leader, he refused to sit when all the delegates -- before any hateful rhetoric was out there, he refused to sit with the delegation. They were like a stealth delegation.

They wouldn't even give quotes to the press. I mean, we were sort of there with our small toe, waiting for a reason to leave.

HANNITY: Hey -- hey, Julianne...

MALVEAUX: Former president Jimmy Carter said that we could have done number of things to change the tone and tenor...

HANNITY: Julianne...

MALVEAUX: ... of the rhetoric. Just a minute! Because I think it's really important to know...

HANNITY: We don't need a speech.

MALVEAUX: We could refuse to talk about -- you just got -- you just got big mouth over there giving one. Give me a break! We could have refused to talk about Israel.

MARTIN: Oh, Julianne, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the rhetoric, and you know that!

MALVEAUX: Oh, come on, Kevin! I was quiet for you.

MARTIN: I love you, too, but...

MALVEAUX: I know you could not restrain yourself.

MARTIN: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rhetoric, sweetheart!

MALVEAUX: Get over yourself, boy! Get over yourself! Come on, now! I listened you!


HANNITY: All right.

MALVEAUX: You wouldn't give me the same courtesy I gave you!

HANNITY: Julianne...

MALVEAUX: Hey, I played it clean until you went dirty!

HANNITY: Julianne...


HANNITY: ... you got to be quiet.

MALVEAUX: All right.

HANNITY: You got to take a breath, OK?

MALVEAUX: Why? He didn't.

HANNITY: Next time you come on the show, please, decaf, OK? Now...


HANNITY: ... we're going to give everybody an opportunity to be


MALVEAUX: Oh, come on! That's not fair.

HANNITY: We're going to give -- we're going to give everybody an opportunity to be heard. You know, Kevin, the way I view this is, you know, especially, there are attacks against our ally, our close friend, Israel, when they say Zionism equals racism, and the horrific things that have been said there. I view that as sitting down with, like, Klan members. I view that they are so bigoted...

MARTIN: It basically is, Sean! You're right!

HANNITY: ... in their hatred towards Israel, I don't think we should sit at the table with people that have that anti-Semitic venom.

MARTIN: OK, you're telling me, Dr. Malveaux, that you agree with the Arabs and all these factions sending suicide bombers dressed in -- as Hasidic Jews to blow themselves up, to target a group of people because of their religious conviction! Do you agree with that, Dr. Malveaux, or do you not?

MALVEAUX: Very rhetorically stated. Of course, I don't agree with that! Nobody agrees with that. I don't agree with Arafat, either. At the same time...

MARTIN: Then you should be condemning his rhetoric!

MALVEAUX: ... the fact is that -- just a minute! -- Palestinians have been discriminated against. Things have happened to Palestinians in Israel on their land because of their race. Now, are they supposed to be quiet about that? I'm not saying suicide bombers are right...

HANNITY: You know...

MALVEAUX: ... and Arafat is wrong...

HANNITY: Let me -- let me go to Kevin Martin again...

MALVEAUX: ... and Arafat stabbed Jesse Jackson in the back...

HANNITY: Kevin, it's not...

MALVEAUX: ... by changing his position.

HANNITY: It's not just about Israel and Palestine and Zionism equals racism. It's also about -- you know, there are serious issues about slavery going on in the world today, in the Sudan and other places, and where this could be effective in perhaps eliminating these things. It seems to be almost the typical and quintessential example of the United Nations taking an opportunity to bash the United States and dragging up old issues that we have rectified on our own, without their assistance, as a means of trying to embarrass and hurt the United States. I don't think we should participate in that.

MARTIN: I agree with you, Sean. I think when we were thrown off the Human Rights Commission, when we were thrown off the other commissions...

HANNITY: Yeah, but wasn't Libya still on there?

MARTIN: The U.N....

MALVEAUX: We were thrown off those commissions...

MARTIN: ... lately has taken an anti-American...

MALVEAUX: ... because we didn't do what we were supposed to do.

HANNITY: Julianne, let -- let Kevin finish. Julianne -- Kevin?

MARTIN: The U.N. as of late has taken a very anti-American stand. And I have to agree. A low-level delegation, in my opinion, was -- it was too good to be at this conference. I mean, it's just ridiculous, Sean! It really is.

HANNITY: Yeah. All right, let me...

MALVEAUX: You know what?

HANNITY: ... give Julianne the last word here tonight.

MALVEAUX: The point is this. The United States is not at war with the United Nations. We elevate the discussion. We are the biggest power in the world. The Sudan thing could have been dealt with. But by us getting up, taking our bat and ball and going home, we're saying that we're only going to do it our way or the highway. I think it's absolutely wrong.

COLMES: Julianne, you're right...

MALVEAUX: And I think we missed an opportunity.

COLMES: Thank you for being with us. Kevin, good to see you.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

MARTIN: Thank you.