New Colo. Univ. President Hank Brown Inherits Firestorm

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," Aug. 9, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: "Factor Follow-up" segment tonight. Ever since University of Colorado (search) Professor Ward Churchill (search) said some of the Americans killed by terrorists on 9/11 (search) deserved their fate, that huge college has been under immense pressure.

Churchill is a major embarrassment, but he does have protections, as you know. But now there is a new president at C.U. And Hank Brown (search) joins us from Denver. If he looks familiar, he's a former senator from Colorado.

And you've taken over there in a firestorm of controversy. Bring us up to date. Where is the Churchill investigation now?

HANK BROWN, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO PRESIDENT: Bill, charges were brought against the professor involving plagiarism and ethnic misrepresentation. A preliminary inquiry was made. And they reported back that they'd found enough grounds there to merit further investigation.

It was referred to a research misconduct committee. And that committee has been deliberating over the summer. And we expect a report, I think, early in September.

And that report could clear him. It could find misconduct on his part. It could involve serious research errors. But they'll then report to the standing committee. And they'll make recommendations for penalties...

O'REILLY: All right, let's assume, because I think the.

BROWN: Or exoneration.

O'REILLY: All right, let's assume that they do find that there has been some plagiarism, and has been some misrepresentation of his ethnic background. Let's assume that. That doesn't automatically mean you're suspended. He's still on the faculty. Right? Then it goes to step, what, 86? Because there's been a lot of steps here, Senator, as you know.

BROWN: There's no question there's a lot of due process here. What happens after a recommendation is made to the vice chancellor is the vice chancellor will come up with a — if he's found to have been guilty or as charged, he could come up with a wide range of disciplinary actions all the way to dismissal, from a warning to dismissal or things in between. And then that could be appealed further. So you're right, this is not going to be solved next month.

O'REILLY: All right. So the vice chancellor has the power if the committee investigating finds there's evidence to say that he did do something wrong. The vice chancellor then can come up with a punishment.

But Churchill can appeal the punishment and on and on and on. Is Churchill set to teach any courses? You guys start in two weeks, your new semester. Is he set to teach any courses this year?

BROWN: He is set to teach. And so he'll continue his normal load this fall and I suspect probably into spring.

O'REILLY: Now he's not pulled back from any of his marks. Still goes around and talks to radical groups. Still says explosive things. Still embarrasses the university. Still tees off the state legislature, which is paying, you know, the tax people paying this guy almost $100,000 a year. How is all that going to impact on you and your university out there?

BROWN: All of it makes it an exciting experience. There's no question about it.

O'REILLY: Exciting? Exciting?

BROWN: It's one of many things that every university campus has the opportunity to deal with.

O'REILLY: I don't know if I'd say it was exciting. I mean, don't you think it's embarrassing for C.U.? I mean, you've got a guy like this on the faculty. And you can't get rid of him. And he's saying that people deserved to die on 9/11? You know, people here in New York think this guy's trash.

BROWN: I have a personal experience with the Taliban and with Usama bin Laden. And I have a profound sense that what he said is not only incorrect but very, very misguided. And I suspect many Americans understand that.

O'REILLY: But he doesn't. And he represents your university when he goes out across the country and says these crazy things. He's always introduced as University of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill.

And I don't know. I mean, you're putting a little happy face on it, senator. If it were me, I wouldn't be pleased about this situation. I think your donations are down from alumni who are angry. They tell me that the applications for admission there are down. I don't know whether that's true, but I don't think this guy's doing your university any good, sir.

BROWN: Donations were down earlier this year, but happily in the last couple of months, they've surged back and made a year over year increase. So we're delighted with that.

But Bill, there's no question that this controversy has an impact on the university. At the same time, you appreciate that you don't get fired for disagreeing with the president.

O'REILLY: No, you've got to go due process because the ACLU (search) will skunk you, but if you let him go, I think the legislature in Colorado, the state legislature is going to come after him. I'll give you the last word.

BROWN: There is no question there's very strong feeling in the legislature and among the citizens of this state.

O'REILLY: All right, then. Good luck in your new job. And we appreciate you coming on.

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