New showdown over immigration amid a Trump tweetstorm
President Trump says there will be no deal on DACA and steps up calls for tougher border security. Reaction on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 2, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
No more deals on "dreamers," President Trump spending part of his Easter Sunday fuming over Democratic roadblock to his immigration agenda. He's now urging Republicans to use the nuclear options to pass new border legislation. He said DACA is dead because the Democrats didn't care or act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Mexico has got to help us at the border. And a lot of people are coming in because they want to take advantage of DACA. And we're going to have to really see. They had a great chance. The Democrats blew it. They had a great, great chance. But we'll have to take a look.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: His press secretary, Sarah Sanders, followed up on Fox News earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president made multiple offers on DACA. He wanted to see something get done. And Democrats refused to actually put something on the table or work with the president to get anything done. They wanted these DACA recipients as political pawns. Look, the president wanted to make a deal. He made two incredibly generous offers that went far and above even what the previous administration had done on DACA, and Democrats still refused to make a deal. And I think it's because we're getting close to an election. They don't want to see the president continue to win like he has for the last year and a half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Jesse, I'll go to you first. There is a debate on who killed DACA, right? So the Democrats are saying, well, he killed DACA, they killed DACA. I think the truth is it wasn't going to go anywhere before this midterm election. Anyway, everyone is going to try to utilize this for their advantage in the midterms.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Exactly. You know, the president offered a very generous proposal, and crying Chuck denied it several times. That's fine. The reason we're in this situation is because President Obama put forth DACA, and he knew it was unconstitutional because for the two years before and he'd said I wasn't allowed to do it as president. Then he changed and he did it. It was challenge in the courts. It was about to get rejected, so the president comes along and says let's have congress deal with immigration law because that's the right place.
PERINO: Right.
WATTERS: . to deal with immigration law. So, he comes out and he puts forth an arrangement which I thought was overly generous. It was 1.8 million amnesty in exchange for wall funding. That was rejected. So the president try to make it a broader solution and say, OK, let's put things that the American people want on the table, merit-based immigration system and doing away with the visa lottery and with chain migration.
PERINO: Yep.
WATTERS: Seventy five percent of the country believes that. That was rejected as well. So, we're now in a situation where the Democrats are going to campaign in the midterms as the Republicans hate Hispanics. And the Republicans will campaign in the midterms as the Democrats want illegal immigration and open borders. And we're just going to see which narrative wins.
PERINO: Here's that DNC deputy chair, Keith Ellison, to that point on what he thinks of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH ELLISON, DNC DEPUTY CHAIR: Back when Trump ended the DACA program back in September, I knew he wasn't going to do anything about it. He never had a plan for trying to fix DACA and he turned down several bipartisan deals. It was always a game. It was always a trick. He was never arguing in good faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Juan, the president did put a pretty generous plan on the table for going beyond the DACA kids to say that there would be up to 8 million that he would be willing to do, basically, an amnesty for. And it couldn't get done. Is there -- is it fair to say that for the Democrats this is an election issue is better for them than solving the problem?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No. I think, in fact, the Democrats would like to crow, Dana, that they have solved the problem and saved the dreamers. And what you see is, in fact, the proposal that the president put forward didn't even have the support of enough Republican votes in the senate to get past. So Republicans didn't back what the president.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: No, he didn't.
WATTERS: He need 60.
WILLIAMS: Oh, he need 60.
PERINO: Yeah, he had 36.
WATTERS: He need 60.
WILLIAMS: He had 36 Republicans, so he didn't even had the 52 Republicans behind him. I think what struck me was how little relationship there is between what the president was tweeting and reality. He says these people -- there's a caravan, as you know, of people from Honduras, Guatemala, trying to make their way up to the U.S. border to request asylum because they're fleeing from the crime and the chaos down there. And the president says these people are trying to take advantage of the dreamers. Well, they can't apply for a dreamers status. There's no relationship. But he makes it as if it's one. And then he goes on to argue as if somehow.
WATTERS: It is related, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Oh, tell me.
WATTERS: Well, because if you cross the border illegally as a migrant seeking asylum, you will get special treatment and they'll consider you for amnesty.
WILLIAMS: No, they'll consider you for asylum.
WATTERS: Amnesty or asylum, you still get to stay in this country and have protected status.
WILLIAMS: But there's nothing -- I'm sorry.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, under consideration.
WILLIAMS: Right. So there's nothing -- there's a huge difference. In order to qualify for DACA, Jesse, you have to have been in the country, you have to come in to the country at a very young age.
WATTERS: There's no argument that not having a border wall and having the DACA situation still in play does attract illegal immigration from the southern border.
PERINO: Yeah. Kimberly, if you're being technical.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
PERINO: . then, yes, these people that are applying for asylum are not -- or children being brought across the border by their parents. But it is true that there is this caravan. It comes around every year. This is the fifth year this group has tried to do this. And they tried to deter them. So, like, you're not going to get asylum here. Like, you might be able to try to apply for it. And Nikki Haley was actually in Honduras just this past spring and saying, if we want to help you solve this problem at its source, but you're going to have to partner with us.
GUILFOYLE: Well, isn't that reasonable, though? I mean, she's going right to the source of the problem and saying, look, we like to partner with you. We like to find a positive solution for this. But nevertheless, you can't just, you know, flagrantly violate the law and expect for the law to show you consideration at expense to others who are comporting themselves in an appropriate matter and following the legal guidelines. Nobody is trying to, like, step on anybody's dreams or hopes or ability to get into this country. What people are against is illegal entry. And let me tell you something, the president was giving the Democrats, and they missed a great opportunity here to take advantage of this positioning, and of what he wanted was to get the 25 billion for his enhanced border wall. And instead, they went ahead and passed on it for political reasons, which is a disservice to everyone.
Because, really, it was 80 percent of what they want, OK. And he's just was saying, listen, we've got to, like, slow it down about this in terms of chain migration and this lottery system, and put some more specific standards and practices. Little bit more structure to make sure that the right people are getting in and it's properly background vetted, etcetera. That's not an unreasonable request. What's unreasonable is the obstructionists on both sides, to be quite frank, because people acted like political party pigs and they wanted everything they wanted on their plate without an ability or reason to compromise. And now, this is what we have. So, the president didn't kill DACA. I mean, I think the Democrats killed it. And people who were too entrenched in their own political beliefs and won't willing to compromise.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Who killed DACA?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Who ended DACA? President Trump.
GUILFOYLE: No, he did not.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Sort of a tit for tat. You killed it. No, I killed it, whatever. Basically, it's not getting done before the election.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes. It's like murder on the Orient Express. They've all killed DACA.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Yes. I've ruined the ending for you.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I love Agatha Christie.
GUILFOYLE: I know.
GUTFELD: I love all of her paperbacks. Anyway, I believe this group that is helping these Hondurans and refugees -- were hired by Trump, because it is perfect.
WATTERS: True.
GUTFELD: Again, here is -- just a singular example that underlines the necessity for a plan which is a wall with a door, which is what Trump is talking about. Weaving in a group of illegal immigrants is not a plan. Wall with a door is a plan. So, this, actually, again, validates his concerns over a weak border. Even Mexico knows that this is wrong. They deported tens of thousands of Hondurans. And yet, this is, hey, come on through. So, again, it validates -- and then, back to the point about DACA, who killed DACA. I think the Democrats sacrifice the people they've used as pawns for so long just to score against Donald Trump. This Trump deal would have solve everything.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: . but they didn't want the solution unless it involved a humiliation of Trump, because Trump was giving -- was it 1.6 million?
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: But he was willing to go up to 8 million.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: And it's not the first time that the Democrats did this.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: I mean, if you go back to 2007 when that deal was on the table they blocked it then too.
GUTFELD: I don't know. In business, if the deal gives you what you want, it doesn't matter if you don't get along, right? You can get a deal with people you don't like. But in politics, there're no such rules for this. You can kill a deal and get rewarded for it because it rewards your side. There's no political consequences to this.
WATTERS: And to your point about the responsibility of both parties scuttling this deal, if you look at the Republicans, a lot of those people in the pocket of big business, they want certain amount of open borders because they want the cheap labor for the companies to come in. And the Democrats, obviously, want open borders because it means more votes and more amnesty. Meanwhile, the middle-class American workers are getting hosed, and the body politic suffers from this. And our national security suffers because you have no idea who's coming in the country. Like Greg said in Honduras, that border with Mexico, they've had a fence on that border too, about 500 miles. And we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars sending it to Honduras and Mexico to make sure they secure that border, and make sure that they root out the corruption and try to help their economy, because right now it's such a disaster, it's spilling over. And no matter what we spend, we're still getting -- I think in 2016, we stopped 200,000 Central American illegal immigrants crossing through Mexico into the United States. That is a lot of people.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: One of the reasons I've look up the Honduras trip that Nikki Haley took, the U.N. ambassador -- there's basically several areas. One was combating drugs and gangs, which is one of the things these people are fleeing from. Economic ties are super important. Valenzuela, again, another huge problem. A lot of people in South America concern about that. But also, remember, it was Honduras and Guatemala, where -- two of the only countries that supported the president on his push to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
WILLIAMS: So, I just wanted to jump in and say, Jesse, we have hit a 47- year low in terms of people crossing this border. That you and President Trump want to, I think, create alarmist rhetoric about. Secondly.
WATTERS: Well, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Let me finish. Hold on.
WATTERS: . 300,000 people they're catching. How many are they're not catching?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me just say, the numbers, the percentages, the actual count, they don't vary. I mean, that -- this is a 47-year low. They've been using the same count for 47 years.
WATTERS: A lot of that thanks to Trump's rhetoric about building wall.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Because Trump is the wall.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: The second thing to say here is these people are coming seeking asylum. In other words, as Dana was just describing the situation in Honduras, this is a humanitarian crisis. And we, as Americans, have created a system that allows people to apply for asylum.
GUTFELD: OK. You're absolutely right. People should apply. But there's a bit of -- just because they're closer to us isn't fair. There's plenty of people who should be in front of them who happen not to be on our borders. And I could go through them. We know where they are. I just came up with an idea for a CNN town hall.
PERINO: Oh, no.
GUTFELD: Not for Fox News but for CNN. Why, when you talk about all these things that are going on in the world, why is his approval rating still moving up? That's worth discussing. Like, why is it? Is it because of progress on North Korea? Is it because of immigration? Is it because of being tough on China? Is it the second amendment threat? Is it the collusion theory dying?
GUILFOYLE: All of the above.
GUTFELD: Is it terror? Is it a Stormy backlash? All of these variables exist. And it kind of makes you think, he might be doing a pretty good job.
WILLIAMS: Yuck.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Do you know why his numbers -- worse of all, the guys is at a record low in terms of approval rating.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I knew your head would explode.
WILLIAMS: Not only is he on a record low.
WATTERS: Wrong.
WILLIAMS: But I think a lot of this, Greg, has to do with people saying, well, he's the president. We're patriots. We're going to support -- you know what.
GUTFELD: That's a terrible reason.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I agree.
GUTFELD: To support your president because you're patriotic.
GUILFOYLE: No. But all of a sudden that happened. They woke up, they're like patriotism.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: The guy numbers still terrible.
GUTFELD: It's getting better.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
PERINO: The Gallup poll today had him at 39. I want to give Juan a little cover.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: No, no, no. The point I'm trying to make is that every one of these issues that people are throwing out there has a rebound effect and that's what's happening. And Americans are looking at this and they're still looking at the assumptions that Trump makes which is, I'm going to be tough on immigration, law and order. They like that. And all these other things that are going around like collusion, Stormy, they're creating a backlash, he's up at 50 percent.
WILLIAMS: Oh, please.
GUILFOYLE: A collusion storm.
PERINO: Fifty percent in -- that's true.
GUTFELD: We get there.
PERINO: Basketball legend Charles Barkley is angry with President Trump and his supporters. You're going to hear why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: Every now and again, Charles Barkley popped into the new cycle with some kind of tirade against President Trump. The former NBA star now says he's never been more angry and disgusted with the president because of his tweeting and staff changes. And Barkley is unloading on his supporters too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Nobody ever wants to look in the mirror and say it's my fault. I think he reached a demographic that won't look in the mirror and says my life sucks because of me. And he came right after President Obama, and there were some people who are like, wow, we've got a black president. They're not happy with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Wow. All right. Dana, first of all, Charles Barkley is a basketball player.
PERINO: Oh.
WATTERS: OK. He played for the Sixers and the Suns. That's the game where you shoot the ball.
PERINO: Got it.
WATTERS: Got it. All right. So, second of all, one of the biggest mistakes you can make when you're doing, you know, political analysis, and trust me, I know what I'm talking about here. Is that you never go after a candidate's supporters. That, I think, crossing the line.
GUILFOYLE: Did you learn a lot from that, Dana?
PERINO: Thank you, yes. It's very helpful. I'll use it in my future. I do think that life is too short to be mad at people who made a choice based on -- it's not like we didn't litigate the 2016 campaign for two years leading up to it. And people were clear eyed about the decision. And they might have decided, well, I can't vote for her. I'm going to give him a shot. Like, why not? Give it a try. I do try to listen to them, though, because I feel the resentment. I hear it. I don't feel it personally. There is a resentment there that -- as, unfortunately, I think pulling people farther and farther apart. But Hillary Clinton learned that lesson when she said the deplorable.
WATTERS: Yep.
PERINO: . in September of 2016. She was denigrating an entire group of people rather than pulling people together and it's not helpful.
WATTERS: Not helpful. So, Greg, Trump flipped 217 counties that went for Obama in 2012.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WATTERS: Does that all of a sudden make people, you know, not racist after four years?
GUTFELD: It's an irrational comment for him to make, but that isn't news. Guaranteed, if Barkley says something you hate, wait 5 minutes and he'll say something you love. Even in that tirade that he did, he actually said some things that were actually pretty good, about like the Russian thing, the Stormy thing. He is -- he talked about looking in the mirror. He should look in the mirror because he's talking about himself. He is just like Trump. He's an opinionated trash talker. He's run into trouble in his past. He has considered entertaining a career in politics. He would be another Trump. He's upset about Trump tweeting? Charles won't keep his mouth shut if he's president. And I think people -- and Charles is probably in the back of his head thinking, man, I could have done this. I have a pass, but Trump proved that a pass doesn't matter. I could have actually been the governor of a large state or ran for president, which may happen, Charles.
WATTERS: He's very authentic and likable guy. And to your point, he did mention something about whether the Russia story was a big issue and we had that. Let's hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think the Russian thing is an issue?
BARKLEY: I do not. I think it's probably true that they got -- but I'm pretty sure in area election, state, local, national, somebody can get some dirt on somebody if they wanted to.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: So, you don't think it's a distraction?
BARKLEY: It's definitely a distraction. We have spent the last year talking about Russia every single day. Now we've got Stormy. Now we've got another girl. And I'm sitting here saying, when are we actually going to help the people?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Oh, Juan, Charles makes a good point there.
WILLIAMS: Well, I thought that was the best point he make. I mean, to me, the idea that you need to pay attention. I think he mentioned our schools, he mentioned Puerto Rico. You know, the whole idea that even DACA, he mentioned, we should do something to help the dreamers. So, I think on that level, you know, like, let's really help people is what he says is the purpose of government, and he things that we're not doing that job. And I guess that means, by extension, since Trump is president, Trump isn't doing it. But I thought what really struck me was, on some level, you know, we're in the midst of, again, culture wars. And nobody goes to Charles Barkley for political expertise. He was endorsing Doug Jones down in Alabama. As a guy who, at one point, thought about running for governor in Alabama as a Republican.
So, I think people say, well, it's Charles Barkley, a celebrity. We like to hear what our celebrities say. But why we take it, like, to heart as, oh, boy, this is big news, I don't know. But he is much more than a basketball player or former basketball player at this point. I think he is, may be, the preeminent basketball analyst in the country. He does not only the NBA, but also the NCAA, and he's very popular. But, I mean, I just think it was interesting, but I don't know that it's any -- of any big consequence.
WATTERS: Well, people do like listening to Sir Charles, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
WATTERS: He's not just a basketball player. He's always said interesting things about politics, pretty in touch with the people.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I think that what we're saying at this table. So, he said a few things in there, it's like Halloween candy. There's some in there I'm like, yeah, I love it. Love it. Candy corn peeps.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: You're pro-peeps.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. And then there's like that almond joy, mounds thing, I don't like that at all.
WATTERS: Taste like coconut.
GUILFOYLE: Totally. Only on my skin, you know, like suntan lotion. So, he's like that. He's like a whole bunch of good stuff, and then there's a few things like, man, maybe I'll toss that one out. But I think he's a thoughtful person the way that he comes across. He thinks about things. And I totally agreed with him about the Russia collusion that's just been ridiculous. Like Russia-nitis. And in terms of, you know, what he's saying about those Trump supporters, that I don't like so much.
WATTERS: Right.
GUILFOYLE: . because I think, yeah, a lot of people made choices. And people made choices to go with President Trump with his agenda and reject that of Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, which was, sort of, really the establishment that was back in there holding court for a while. So, I mean, I was like listening to what he has to say.
WATTERS: Holding court? Well said, K.G. Ahead, this protest isn't getting much coverage, a student walkout in support of the second amendment, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Well, we saw the March for our Lives a couple of weeks ago. And on Friday, a group of 75 students at a Central Florida high school walked out of class in support of gun rights and the second amendment. Here's one of the students who organized the protest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHLOE DEATON, ROCKLEDGE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: It was important to me because the other walkout that happened on March 14 for the Parkland students turned political, and was big support for gun control. And personally, I don't believe that gun-control is the best idea. Everyone has the right to have their own opinion, and I believe that our right should have just been expressed. In the beginning, it was a very big risk to step up and do this. It took a lot of fight with our school to get them to approve it and support us. But in the end, they did support us.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: OK. So, it's good to hear some different viewpoints, isn't it, Greg, on this subject matter?
GUTFELD: Well, what's interesting is the media praise for the earlier protest was portrayed as independent of ideology. People that come forth and say, isn't it great that teenagers are going out there and they care about something? That's good. Well, if that's the case, then he should have equal praise for this. If you're independent of ideology, you should say there are kids out there talking about gun control. There kids out there talking about gun rights. Isn't it great that all these kids are out there? But I don't think you're going to see that in the media. On a personal note, I am very, very skeptical of all teenage activism because I was one. I worked on the nuclear freeze. When I was in high school, I did it for extra credit. I got signatures to ban nuclear weapons from being transported in California. I know that I wasn't thinking about it clearly. I know that I was naive and I was doing it for romantic and for extra credit purposes.
GUILFOYLE: For a girl?
WATTERS: That will get the girl. Nuclear freeze.
GUTFELD: You have to understand, nuclear freeze and gun-control arguments are the same.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUTFELD: . in the sense that you're saying, my God, these weapons are for killing. Therefore they are wrong. And that's naive. Because when you grow up, you realize they exist primarily to protect you with the risk factored in.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And to prevent war.
GUTFELD: Right.
GUILFOYLE: And them being used. As a deterrent.
GUTFELD: And to protect your house.
GUILFOYLE: As a deterrent. It's why we also have, like, jails and the justice system. So we say, "Uh-oh, if you mess up, you're going to go there."
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: To the big house.
OK, Dana, what do you make of this?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I love civics education, and studying the Constitution sounds like a really good idea to me. And you can disagree with it.
But I loved listening to her, because she's obviously thought it through. And they were able to get their school to agree. You know, they had to persuade them based on some sort of logic to be able to do that.
What I would recommend is that the debating association, they choose a new topic every semester for students for the high school debate teams. And I think that gun-control or the Second Amendment should be the one that they do next year. And let these kids argue it.
But when you are on the debate team, you don't know if you have to argue pro or con. You have to be well-versed in both, and then you can make a decision at the end of the day. It would be a useful exercise, and I'd love to hear what they have to say.
GUILFOYLE: Perfect. Very good idea. Helpful hints from Dana. Good point journal.
OK, go ahead.
WATTERS: I support both walkouts. One, because if I was in high school, I'd walk out if I didn't have to be in class. And two, you want kids civic-minded. And that's a good thing. Although I think it's --
GUILFOYLE: You want them to buy your future book.
WATTERS: Exactly. In 2030.
PERINO: And come to your party.
WATTERS: And come to my -- it's so sad. I'll take anybody.
But I would say I think it's -- the kids that walked out just recently, I think shows more bravery, because it was very easy to walk out a couple weeks ago. But to walk out on a pro-Second Amendment platform takes a lot more guts. And here's why.
Student during the first walkout, some were actually physically assaulted for holding up signs supporting the Second Amendment. One kid was suspended for staying inside the classroom. Other kids were sent home, because they didn't want to participate.
With that said, Scott Israel is the real villain here. We really know why -- and that we've been over it 1,000 times. And any day now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is going to come back with its decision after the investigation into what went wrong, and he may be fired or suspended.
And Rick Scott has taken action with the Florida legislature. They've raised the legal limit --
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WATTERS: --- for gun purchases into 21. You have to wait now three days before you purchase a long gun. And they banned sale and possession of bump stocks.
GUILFOYLE: Well, he's been quite proactive about it and vocal about it right from the beginning. I foresee in our future, a Greg monologue on Sheriff Israel.
GUTFELD: Oh, I hope so.
GUILFOYLE: As it comes down.
WATTERS: Any day.
GUILFOYLE: Wait for it.
OK, Juanito.
WILLIAMS: Well, everything you just outlined, you know, that Rick Scott did as governor of Florida. Guess what? Your 75 students opposed. So they're opposed to even what a Republican governor in Florida has to do in terms of his response to what's taken place at Parkland.
And I think what you're seeing here is really an effort to sort of -- first of all, there were only 75 versus hundreds of thousands that marched around the country.
GUTFELD: They're in the minority.
WILLIAMS: In the polls, polls show overwhelming support for gun control legislation, including universal background checks and the like. This is not, you know, in dispute.
But I think what you're seeing here is the right thing. We can produce some students who can march out, because they understand the power of the students who went through the shooting at Parkland. At Parkland, Florida.
GUTFELD: Are you are saying this was controlled by the right?
WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh, you know, the sight of so many "Make America Great" hats again might have been a clue.
GUTFELD: But that didn't happen in those other protests with other groups?
WILLIAMS: They supported -- people came into support. But I think what you see here from these students, this 75, is clear support not only for Trump, but they used the kind of language that would make you think, "Gosh. I think these people have -- are being somehow" --
PERINO: Coached.
WILLIAMS: -- "promoted or coached or something."
WATTERS: Oh, Juan.
GUTFELD: But I mean, that was -- that was more transparent in the other protests, because they were so many adults involved and so many celebrities giving money, and so many groups behind them. That was obvious.
GUILFOYLE: And the majority of people that were marching and walking out, being not even teenagers but over that age. And, you know, so it was very well-orchestrated.
PERINO: And helping them in the green rooms, too.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's unbelievable.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: But now that it's on the other side, everybody will say, "Oh, no. This is the fake side."
WILLIAMS: Seventy-five? Wow.
WATTERS: Sometimes doing the right thing is unpopular, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I can see it's very unpopular here.
PERINO: Always lonely in a crowd.
GUILFOYLE: Isn't it?
What does the mainstream media have against fair and balanced news? Greg breaks it down next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: If you have a life, then you probably missed this idiotic story making the rounds Sunday on Twitter and CNN -- same thing, really. In a nutshell: Local anchors delivered a message that promised diligence in the fake news era. It's what you'd call a mission statement. But someone compiled the scripted missives, and it was hilarious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sharing of biased --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- and false news has become all too common on social media.
More alarming, some of the media outlets publishing these same things without checking facts first. Unfortunately, some members of the media are using these platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Oh, my, they were all saying the exact same thing. Who does that remind you of? Hollywood, the mainstream media, the late-night comics? Yet how all these hypocrites whined, the same clacking jaws who get their talking points from Chuck Schumer and Media Matters are mad over this? Shut up. Read the actual script and what do you find? Nothing in there that's pro- or negative Trump, nothing about Democrats or Republicans. Instead, what you'll find is a call for balanced journalism, a concern over unverifiable stories on social media and a criticism of biased broadcasting in general.
That sounds pretty healthy to me. Yet our nation's hall monitor clutched his pearls.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN: All these anchors in these markets are required to read this script. It's attacking fake news. But really, what it's doing, it's kind of like the Fox "Fair and Balanced" slogan. It's a way of saying, "We're fair. Everybody else is biased" and it's taking a page out of Trump's playbook.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Yes. Come on, Brian. Given CNN's obsession over Stormy, maybe you want to tape this script on the company fridge. And how could it be worse than CNN's mission statement?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: This is an apple. Some people might try to tell you that it's a banana. They might scream, "Banana, banana, banana" over and over and over again. They might put "banana" in all caps. You might even start to believe that this is a banana. But it's not. This is an apple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Who was high on mushrooms when they wrote that?
But Stelter wasn't the only media mouth freaking out. So why was the howling media triggered by this? Well, maybe they feel threatened. People are saying what they're really about, finally. Or maybe, just maybe, this is what angry people do on Easter Sunday and that's even more depressing.
So Kimberly, as a mission statement, what exactly was so outrageous about that and the fact that they read it? It was a great audiovisual of putting it together.
GUILFOYLE: Right. It was how they packaged it to put it together to make it sound like groupthink.
GUTFELD: Like cultish.
GUILFOYLE: Et cetera. Very much like a cult or something like everybody drank the Kool-Aid. The perfect little packet mixture combination of little powder and water for a delightful, delectable thirst-quenching treat.
But no, but if you look at it and, like, actually examine the separate and disparate parts, you see it's, in fact, just journalists trying to do their job.
But I'm also then reminded in the juxtaposition of how good FOX News is where you look at all the different local clips across. And like, we really do have the best people, I just have to say. Well done.
GUTFELD: Dana, I think Jimmy Kimmel tweeted that this is a threat to democracy or something like that?
PERINO: Well, I think that also, you have to remember who it's coming from. Right? So this is Sinclair. This is a group that is working on their merger right now. They're super ambitious. They want to be very competitive, including competitive with this network.
And what's interesting is I think the way that -- every news organization markets themselves as being the source for truth, the source for the best information --
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: -- the one that you can trust the most. Look across all media. They all are saying that. Some just do it better than others.
And I think that there's a lot of consternation about the Sinclair Group, because they're taking over in local media markets that aren't necessarily used to hearing that type of thing, so it does sound weird when it's all in lockstep.
Contrast that with the new media campaign that FOX News is doing, which was super sophisticated, very different. And the thing that was really different about it from my perspective is that there was no script. So we went in there not knowing what we were going to be asked or what we were actually going to say. Maybe thought about it a little bit. But all of that is very spontaneous, and authenticity is what I think viewers are looking for. And if you're making fun of that thing, you could probably see that it was not authentic.
GUILFOYLE: We just showed up with a few different colored outfits.
PERINO: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: And then the rest was, like, let it fly.
PERINO: And it's intellectually good. And it's different; it's very modern. And --
WATTERS: Yes. We changed three times.
GUILFOYLE: Nobody was telling us, as every day here, no one tells us what to say --
PERINO: Right.
GUILFOYLE: -- what to do, what to think. And that's why it's genuinely authentic, and it shows in the Pew research in the polls. The people trust us.
GUTFELD: I still think this is unfair. I think this is a mission statement that they read, and so that's what you do.
WATTERS: Yes, they read it, because they can't afford to spend all the money that FOX spends on a really nice promotional campaign. And that's fine. They don't have the budget, so they did what they did. It's the same thing, as you said, as the CNN promo.
You hit the nail on the head. CNN is threatened by it, because they know that this Sinclair piece was targeting a place like CNN.
You know, this brings me back to the Fake News Awards. Let's remind everybody some of these awards. CNN, Don Jr. and WikiLeaks, false. The Mooch story about Russia, falls. The fake Japanese feeding the fish video, false. Brian Ross, ABC tank market. What do all these things have in common? They're all fake news from the liberal mainstream media, and they were all done in order to hurt President Trump.
So when you combine that with the fact that 90 percent of D.C. journalists are Democrats, and 90 percent of the nightly evening news from the networks are against Donald Trump, people understand in this country that the mainstream media is biased, and they calculate that when they watch the news.
GUTFELD: Last word, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's telling that Donald Trump immediately defended Sinclair. And I think that indicates to me how political this was.
So you can say it was a mission statement from a corporate owner, but it's a corporate owner that really controls a lot of local media. And I think the understanding people have when they, you know, if they tune in to us, they say, "Well, that's national media, and I understand the roles that are being played, left, right, all that."
But when they turn on their local news to learn about tax assessments in the school board, I think they're surprised that this kind of lockstep, lack of independence would exist. And I think that was the power here. That this is not independent anymore. Your local news is now under control of somebody who is pro-Trump. And Trump is defending them.
Because the message, although you see it as not having any bias, it fits the Trump message perfectly, which is you are being assaulted by fake news that's unfriendly to me and not to be believed. And so now coming in your local news, people see this as insidious.
GUTFELD: I think it actually fits the FOX News message, fair and balanced. That's all they were saying.
And No. 2, I would urge people to actually read the actual transcript. Because when you look at the video, all you see in here are the sounds. No one is actually listening. So I think that if you read it, it's not political at all. And it's not Trump. Because remember, Trump came after fair and balanced.
WILLIAMS: No, this is -- this is a context. You have to ask people to read it in the context. They read it without that, they'll say it's no big deal.
GUTFELD: Read the whole thing.
All right. Coming up, Kellyanne Conway responds to allegations she's the No. 1 leaker in the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: A new book on the Trump White House making some headlines ahead of its release. This one written by Ron Kessler, who claims he knows where all those leaks are coming from: Kellyanne Conway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON KESSLER, AUTHOR: I know that White House aides have seen texts that she has sent to other journalists dissing her colleagues, leaking material. So if you wonder, you know, why there are so many leaks out of the White House, one reason is Kellyanne is the No. 1 leaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: FOX asked Ms. Conway for her response this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO DONALD TRUMP: He knows, and he has said publicly and privately who the leakers on the liars are and have been. Very happy that there's a lot less leaking in the White House.
Leakers get great press. And one day, Abby, I will have my say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Wow. So Dana, you're a White House person. What do you think? What's the truth here?
PERINO: She's right. Like, the book she writes is the one everyone is going to want to read. Because she'll finally be able to be free and talk about it. I think she is indicating that there was somebody at the White House who is no longer there working at the White House who she thinks was the big leaker.
My experience is that people who are the leakers are the one who complain about it first and like saying, like, "Oh, my gosh. Did you see this leak?" And like, oh, yes, you're the leaker.
She doesn't seem like the one who does that to me. But I've never been the -- I don't know. I've never been the recipient of any White House leaks, so I don't know.
WILLIAMS: No, you would have been the leaker.
PERINO: No. Let me tell you, communications people don't leak ever.
WILLIAMS: Oh, is that true?
PERINO: You have to clean up the mess of everybody else.
GUTFELD: That's a really good cover.
WILLIAMS: I don't think that's -- I don't think that's true, let me just say.
PERINO: Really?
WILLIAMS: You're telling me White House press secretaries don't leak?
PERINO: No, because you're on the record.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no, no. They leak. I can personally attest to this.
PERINO: Not me.
WILLIAMS: No, not you. I would say not you.
Jesse, what's interesting in this is I know Ron Kessler. Terrific reporter but a big Trump supporter, and in fact, someone who's gone down to Mar-a- Lago with Trump, likes Trump a lot. All of a sudden, here he is attacking Kellyanne. What do you make of this?
WATTERS: I'm confused by it. Kessler is a good author. A lot of the times the books are salacious and gossipy. Although he is a good author, and he does sell a lot of books.
I don't know what to think of it. I've always seen Kellyanne as a straight shooter, and she is very supported by the president. One if not the best and most articulate defender of the president of the United States and is one of, if not the best and most articulate defender of the president.
So I don't think she's the leaker. I don't know that for a fact, but I do know if Dana was to leak, she would not leak to you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Is that right?
WATTERS: Never. Never.
WILLIAMS: Excellent.
PERINO: I'd be leaking to Jesse Watters.
WATTERS: That's right. That's right.
GUILFOYLE: Kellyanne is going to be on "Watters' World"?
WATTERS: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: It's like --
WILLIAMS: The truth teller. I call on the truth teller.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, the truth teller. I mean, come on, everybody knows who the leakers are, were, in the White House. Kellyanne not one of them.
And so I think when she has her day --
PERINO: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: -- you know, to be able to tell the truth about what went on there, she's going to have a very revealing and not surprising story to tell in terms of what transpired there. So I've never known her to leak, to do anything like that. And I know other people who have. That's for sure.
WILLIAMS: So Greg, the one last thing I'd say is that, according to Kessler, Ivanka and Jared are problems. That's what Kessler writes. And he said that they were involved with firing Comey and hiring Scaramucci.
GUTFELD: I don't know. I actually believe Kessler on this, because I don't think that -- what's her name again?
WATTERS: Kellyanne.
GUTFELD: Kellyanne, I don't think she's the leaker. I think she's a human being. And this White House is not a perfect White House. It's a human being White House. That means people talk and they complain and they vent. So I don't think anybody is actually leaking. They're just walking around venting, and people hear it.
By the way, I have an idea for a sponsored segment on this show. Call it "Leak of the Day." It could be sponsored by Poise. It would be great.
PERINO: Oh, my gosh.
WATTERS: Got to go.
GUILFOYLE: Got to go.
WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing" -- you want to get out of here. "One More Thing" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." Juan hits -- kicks us off. Hits us off?
WILLIAMS: It's April, time for high school college seniors to open those make-or-break college acceptance letters. This year's big winner across the nation is a 17-year-old from Houston, Michael Brown. He got into Stanford, but that's just 1 of 20 schools that accepted the young man. And he got into all of those schools and also got full scholarships to all of them. His mom, who's a drug counselor, says her dreams have come true.
PERINO: That's awesome. Good for him. Jesse.
WATTERS: Yes, Stanford was my safety school. Nice try.
GUTFELD: Nice.
WATTERS: The guy in Sarasota, we're going to call him a Florida man, went out to his backyard to go for a swim around midnight, and guess what he found?
PERINO: Oh, dear.
WATTERS: An 11-foot alligator swimming in his pool in Florida. He called some people, they said get out of the pool, and he was safe. But I mean, look at that thing.
PERINO: That's a big thing.
GUILFOYLE: My gosh, look at how much fun it was having. It was like how I feel when I'm in the hot tub.
PERINO: Greg, you're next.
GUTFELD: All right. First, if you go to Berkeley, you've got to start making shirts that say "Stanford was My Safety School." You have to do that.
All right.
WATTERS: I want a cut.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I hate these people!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: All right. If you're in a meeting -- let's say it's an H.R. meeting, or its traffic school, or it's records preservation training -- and at the end of the meeting, someone says, "Does anybody have any questions?" Don't ask a question. Nobody likes the person that asked a question, especially when it's nice outside or it's the end of the day. Go -- if you have a question, go on Google.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: Find out that question there, answer that question.
PERINO: That's a good answer. Everyone should listen to that. A good point. Everyone should listen to his advice.
All right. People who know Jasper know he likes to look for fish. If you follow me on Instagram, he's always every day fishing, everywhere he can. This weekend, not only was it Easter yesterday, but Jasper caught a fish. Check him out. A big one. Check him out.
WATTERS: Nice.
PERINO: The other thing is, it was April Fool's, and I got so many people on that. He didn't catch the fish. Don't forget, "Let Me Tell You About Jasper," it comes out in paperback tomorrow.
Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Very, very cute. OK, so a little bit of damp weather was no match for this year's 140th annual White House Easter egg roll. Nearly 30,000 adults and children joined the first lady on the White House lawn. It was packed with fun. Melania Trump, Betsy DeVos and Kellyanne Conway were among those featured as readers this year. And this goes back to 1878.
PERINO: A great event. "Special Report" is up next. Hey, Bret.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Does Greg have any questions?
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