White House responds to Stormy Daniels interview

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 26, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

We got a response from the White House today to the interview that has much of the nation talking. Stormy Daniels broke her silence on "60 Minutes" last night about her alleged affair with the president in 2006. There were a few bombshells, but this story caught some attention. The adult film star claimed she struck a deal with Mr. Trump's lawyer to keep quiet after getting a mysterious warning back in 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STORMY DANIEL, ADULT FILM ACTRESS: I was in a parking lot going to a fitness class with my infant daughter, was taking -- seat facing backwards in the backseat, diaper bag, you know, getting all the stuff out. And a guy walked up on me and said to me, leave Trump alone. Forget this story. And then he leaned around and looked at my daughter and said, a beautiful little girl. It would be a shame if something happened to her mom. And then he was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: She signed a nondisclosure agreement months before the 2016 election when the affair story resurfaced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, '60 MINUTES': You thought that there would be some sort of legal repercussions if you didn't sign that.

DANIELS: Correct. As a matter of fact, the exact sentence used was, they can make your life hell in many different ways.

COOPER: They, being?

DANIELS: I'm not exactly sure who they were. I believe it's Michael Cohen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Michael Cohen's lawyer sent a cease and desist letter to Daniels last night saying his client had nothing to do with the threat that she alleges. The White House also pushed back on the allegations earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you. Was the president aware of a physical threat made against Ms. Daniels when she was with her daughter back in 2011?

RAJ SHAH, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, the president doesn't believe that any of the claims that Ms. Daniels made last night in the interview are accurate.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He doesn't believe she was threatened?

SHAH: No, he does not. With respect to that interview, I will say the president strongly, clearly, and has consistently denied these underlying claims, and the only person who's been inconsistent is the one making the claims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Meanwhile, Daniels' lawyer is teasing that evidence of the alleged affair will come to light in the coming weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL AVENATTI, STORMY DANIELS ATTORNEY: Again, we're not going to get into the details of everything we have at this time, and there's a reason for that. We're in the very early stages of this case. We understand the American people want all the information right now, immediately. It would make no sense for us to play our hand as to this issue and we're not going to do it. I'm not playing games. There will be more evidence. It's just not going to happen right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Well, they've also just stop a defamation suit against Michael Cohen. OK. So, obviously, continued developments in this case, where an affair that has alleged to have occurred quite some years ago. One of the things, Greg, as we were seizing upon was there was an alleged threat made, intimidation to get her to be silenced. And now you see there's already legal action regarding that.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Interesting thing, I mean, for me, I thought it was a big letdown. The verifiable information is well- established and old news. I mean, finding out again that Trump might have slept with a porn star is as shocking as Mike Pence not sleeping with one. I've heard better tell-all from Harpo Marx. There wasn't anything there that shocked me. And I think Trump is like any choice you make, with the flaws understood beforehand. And this is important because Trump's follies or how he was as a man are well documented for decades. The election proved that they were factored in by half of the population already. So, to continue to scream about the fact that he may not have been a good husband or he cheated on his wife, which are the same thing, that's like moving to Seattle, and then every day complaining about the rain. You moved there. The election happened. It is like the -- it is like how conservatives complained about President Obama's inexperience after he'd been elected, and just kept complaining about it. He won. So that debate is over. So, I think, the one thing I would do is, unlike Hillary Clinton and the media, I'm not going to trash a woman because of sexual claims, but it's safe to say that America can accept a billionaire extrovert with unlimited options in New York City, and wasn't a great husband.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Familiar story. OK, Dana, what do you make of this in terms of the communications on it, the interview last night, and then now the reaction the next morning?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, so, Raj Shah do the briefing today during the 2 o'clock show, and I was watching it thinking, wow, he's doing a great job of basically not giving the story any more oxygen, so starving it from being able to advance. But his answer to the MSNBC or the NBC reporter in which they deny all underlying claims, just ensures that they will continue to -- they, meaning the media, everyone is going to continue to cover the story because what she said on 60 minutes is that I don't want to be called a liar. So she's counter punching when it comes to that. When it comes to the lawsuit, so, apparently, she would owe $20 million as of today because, apparently, she's broke the NDA so much that that would be worth $20 million back to Cohen. But then, they countersued for defamation. So, I, legally -- legally, I don't see where this ends. It does remind me a bit of the John Edwards story that comes out because of the National Enquirer's investigation.

GUILFOYLE: Yep.

PERINO: And then, it was about -- the whole thing, like, -- they're paying people off in order to protect him, politically. That's why I think the story also has legs. I don't think it is as important as other things. I also can understand why Democrats are thinking, oh, look at these Republican hypocrites. They cared so much in the 1990's. Why don't they care now? Yes, but also, aren't the Democrats, in some way, dealing with what they did during the 1990's when they ignored it and excused it.

GUTFELD: And those were assaults. Brutal assaults.

PERINO: There are so many hypocritical discussions going on back and forth that, in some ways, I wonder, is there a way that they get to a settlement between the two of them, because, otherwise, I don't see how the countersuing ends.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, because it's back and forth. It's a million dollars for each time she violates it, so that's why it's up to 20, so good luck with that. Yeah, Jesse.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Yeah. Democrats, politically, are laying low on the Stormy Daniels thing because they defended Bill Clinton for doing much more than this allegedly. And they're letting the media go on the attack. And that's fine. It's just interesting back in the '90s, the media was defending the president and going after the women, and now they're defending the women and going after the president. But that's fine. You know, Republicans did overplayed their hand in the '90s, and Bill Clinton wind up in a pretty good position politically at the end of his second term.

But, to going back to what Greg said, I mean, if it's true when the president did have an affair, consensually, with this person over a decade ago, I don't think the American public cares that much. It wasn't a Me Too thing. It was consensual. And just technically, she hasn't provided any evidence to prove that it actually happened. And 60 Minutes, I don't think enlightened us that much of anything. We heard a lot of it before. The only substantive issues are, one, was a threat made. Two, was there a campaign finance law violation with the payment before the election. And then, three, did she have any pictures or video to blackmail the president with?

CBS didn't do anything to show us any of that information, and that's fine. And right now, it looks like sex sells because they'd got a great rating, but a lot of that had to do with the anticipation, and the fact it came off of the Duke-Kansas overtime game. But, you know, politicians, usually, can get away with this, but if they can it's for a few reasons. One, they're holy rollers, you know. And then, there's the hypocrisy thing. You know, you're pro-life. You pay for the abortion for the mistress. Two, if there's scandalous video that's going to come out. Three, if it's an out of the closet situation like a Larry Craig. And then, lastly, if there's public taxpayer money that's used to facilitate the affair.

Right now, Marc Thiessen had a really nice piece in Dot.com where he said the reason why evangelical voters are sticking with the president is because he's defended religious liberty. He's been very pro-life. He spoke to the March for Life march. And he appointed Gorsuch. And he's been very, very good on those issues. So, he's kept his promises. And right now, it hasn't moved the needle in terms of the base.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Juan, what did you make of this, sort of the expectation level seemed to be quite high in terms of what was going to be released on 60 Minutes? Uniformly, people say there's not much there.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh, no. I think people liked it if that's the issue. I mean, what Jesse referred to as the ratings, the tawdry aspect of it, the President of the United States being dragged through this kind of sexual scandal. I think caught a lot of attention. I think I read that it was number one on twitter.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I think people are watching it with a big expectation level, but.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I think that what happened, you know, was that -- one, it's news that a woman would be on national television, on 60 Minutes, talking about sex with the president in this way when the president's wife had just had a baby.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . about his character.

GUTFELD: It's news because it's news.

WILLIAMS: No, it's news because I don't think we've ever seen a woman on 60 Minutes, or any television, talking about this kind of thing about, you know, her sexual.

GUTFELD: So it's news because news is doing it.

WILLIAMS: Would you stop for a minute?

GUTFELD: No, I'm pointing out your logic.

WILLIAMS: I'll tell you what, you do the whole damn show. OK. So.

GUTFELD: Gee whiz.

WILLIAMS: It seems to me like we have a situation where you have somebody come out and do this unprecedented act. And then you have a situation where she seems to be telling the truth. And I think there're lots of questions, is this woman a truth teller or she's simply self-aggrandizing, or taking advantage of this moment? All she's is a stripper or whatever. And, you know, and he's the president now, so she's trying to make something of it. But you notice that Trump hasn't said much about it. And, even today, when I was looking, I thought to myself, wait a minute, she's only one of three. Because then, you've got the Karen McDougal. You've got Summer Zervos.

And now in the Summer Zervos' case, the judge has allowed that charge to go forward. And, potentially, the president will have to be deposed, and that will put him on the record. Again, this is tremendous danger in terms of his political stability. And I think that's where this is going. The other point is if she's telling the truth about the payments and being threatened, well, then you have a, potentially, a federal election commission violation in terms of, you know, contribution to a campaign because it was done to advance President Trump's campaign at a critical moment just before the 2016 election.

GUTFELD: Mr. Williams, can I respond after you?

WILLIAMS: You can respond, but I get tired of you interrupting. I don't do it to you.

GUTFELD: Juan, you are the king that have been interrupted.

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop.

GUTFELD: Imagine -- imagine if the press liked Donald Trump, they would say this is just sex. If you remember the argument, this is just sex. And they would also impugn our country and they say -- gee, whiz, our puritanical values are being laughed at by the progressive Europeans who understand that our world leaders have affairs. But somehow, that goes out the window now. "60 Minutes" is now the puritanical American program.

WATTERS: I would say about this lawyer, I think his name is Avenatti. And he's worked for about a 150 Democratic political campaigns for Joe Biden, for Rahm Emanuel. He sued Trump before. He sued The Apprentice. He's sued Mark Burnett. And he's a Democratic donor. So, a lot of these have to be viewed in the political context, and he's teasing this information that's going to be coming out. I mean, if you're going to bring out the information, why not put it out on 60 Minutes, when the whole country is watching? So, I don't know exactly what he has. It could be that he has nothing. And, you know, the whole Stormy Daniels thing, a lot of these people think on the right that this is like the new Russia thing. First it's Russia, then he's racist, then he's a traitor, and that he's mentally I'll. And now he's this, you know, lying cheater. You know, after a while, the country looks and say, you know, show us the proof. Show us, you know, show us something that we can sink our teeth into. And if not, just leave the guy alone.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think there's much doubt about what she's saying at this point. I mean, if you guys are making the case that we should not be so upset because, gosh, they had sex once, what's the big deal. It wasn't an extended. Well, the other woman said they had several months affair. But I don't get it. But to my mind, the trouble and the issue here, it doesn't move the political needle, the base. And you're saying it doesn't move the base because everybody just sees Trump as under siege and therefore -- I just don't think most Americans see it. Most Americans are saying, seems to me like we're in constant chaos and this guy invites a lot of tawdry behavior that I don't even feel comfortable talking about with my kids.

GUILFOYLE: What also -- much in the past, they're bringing it up now. I think they are political and financial motivations.

PERINO: Well, I think that one of the reason, though, we have to remember the reason that this came up again is not because she didn't break the silence first.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: It was the Wall Street Journal's reporting that reported on the payout from Michael Cohen, and that's what started this whole ball rolling. Otherwise, we might never have heard about this. So it was sort of good old-fashioned shoe leather reporting to get us to the article, than then she says, oh, wait a second. I'm not going to be put in this position. And we have the back and forth. The one thing about the lawyer constantly saying, we're going to have more, we're going to have more. The news cycle changes so fast these days that when you tell us you're going to have more, you better mean by 3 o'clock this afternoon. Otherwise, we're going to lose interest and we're going to think you don't have it. And I think the longer they try to drag this out, you have to ask -- I don't think that we've got to the final answer last night, which was what is the end game? What do you want? And I can understand what Michael Cohen wants. He has that defamation suit. The NDA he thinks should be in place. So they wanted just to stop. It's not going to stop.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: The end game is impeachment. That's what this is about. This is when each road to impeachment ends up a dead end, then the great thing about Stormy Daniels is it sprouts another leg. Something else happens. Oh, there's more of this. I have pictures, something to come. So all this is, is it allows the media to breathe into a paper bag over Trump.

GUILFOYLE: Right, they want to hyperventilate over it. But, yes, at the same time, it's also a distraction to what we're supposed to be focusing on in the country about something that was a consensual relationship back years ago. I'm wrapping. Ahead, some of our reflections on this weekend's, March for our Lives, and calls for a revolution. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: For the media, it was their March Madness:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN analyst: The wheels of change are happening. And I'm getting chills just having this conversation just north of the National Mall where women suffrage started and civil rights --

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: This really a handful of marches that you remember, that our town remembers the civil rights marches of the '60s, the abortion rights marches of the '80s and '90s, Tea Party, Million Man March, you think about those things. This is right up there.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: These young people were -- very much like the anti- Vietnam protesters in the early -- late '60s. It was the beginning of a protest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So, what was once personal is now political -- complete with slogans, signs, a gushing media, militant salutes and, of course, invective:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARKLAND SURVIVOR DAVID HOGG: First off, I'm going to start off by putting this price tag right here as a reminder for you guys to know how much Marco Rubio took for every student's life in Florida -- $1.05.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That was harsh, but was it daring? Not really. What would be daring is including a Parkland student with a different viewpoint on gun control up on that stage as well.

Now, with David Hogg, he's just a kid, right? So the media says off-limits. But the Rubio thing? That was lame grandstanding. Is that too harsh to Mr. Hogg? Not really, because by criticizing him, I'm complementing him. He's now a revolutionary, like other well-organized and well-funded revolutionaries. Not challenging revolutionaries will be patronizing.

But if you're asking me, the students of Parkland had a real gripe. A craven sheriff didn't do his job as well as an insane killer did his, so 17 people died. The students thought their school should be a safe space, not like the safe spaces of older college kids who weep at the hint of painful truths. But a real safe space protected from madmen and when necessary shielded by grown-ups with guns.

The same goals of sensible students should not be ignored by the NRA. But if the other truth is ignored by parents, well, go on blaming guns for acts of evil instead of actual evildoers. And in four years, you'll end up with cowering undergrads majoring only in sanctimony and sign-making.

There was a great story after this. Killer Mike who is an amazing rapper, did an interview with the NRA with Colion Noir about why his kids weren't marching. Let's roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KILLER MIKE, RAP ARTIST: I told my kids on school walkout, I love you. If you walk out that school, walk out my house.

(LAUGHTER)

COLION NOIR, NRA TV: I'm laughing what's so serious.

KILLER MIKE: It's simple. We are a gun owning family.

NOIR: Yeah.

KILLER MIKE: We are family where my sister farms. We're family where we'll fish, we'll hunt, but we're not a family that jumps on every single thing an ally of ours does, because some stuff we just don't agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Now, he had to apologize for that. Juan, do you think he should have apologized?

WILLIAMS: What did he apologize for?

GUTFELD: For what he just said. He had to apologize for saying he wouldn't allow his kids to go to that march. Was that right for him to apologize?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. Why can't he -- I mean, I don't -- did he say he was going to punish, is that what he's.

GUTFELD: No, he was saying he was not going to allow his kids to go.

WILLIAMS: No, no. Is he apologizing because people said, you're.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: . infringing on your child's right to express their opinion?

GUTFELD: No, he apologize because he realize he went against the -- I guess, the forced assumptions of his friends in the progressive movement.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know anything about that. I mean, he can say -- I mean, I think there're people who, especially, people who live in rural parts of the country, and as he was saying, you know, accustomed to hunting, fishing, and all that. They're much more comfortable with guns. But that's not the issue. We're talking -- the issue here is what happened in Parkland, what happened in place like Columbine, now almost 20 years ago. What happened at Virginia Tech, Newtown. That's what we're talking about. And to me, you know, I'm just struck that people will try to diminish the power of what happened over the weekend. The incredible turnout, the incredible numbers, not just in Washington, but around the country of people trying to express, you know, something is wrong and we need to really have honest discussions and confront it.

Like, I was on "Fox News Sunday" yesterday with Newt Gingrich. The former speaker says to me, who's paying for this? And I think, so you question the authenticity and the sincerity of these young people. Or to say -- as you're saying today, why aren't they mad at Sheriff Israel? And I think to myself, well, you can be mad but that's the heart and soul of it is that we see repeat occasions in this country of this kind of incident. And also, don't forget, the ongoing attacks in places like Chicago that we often discuss where handguns are used by the gang bangers and the like to kill people. And I just think it's time for us as a society to be willing and daring enough to stand up and say we're going to deal with this. We're going to stop having easy access to guns everywhere.

WATTERS: Well, I mean, there's the strictest gun laws in the country in Chicago, and it's the deadliest city. At least one of.

WILLIAMS: You know about Indiana?

WATTERS: I mean, Juan, guns get everywhere. You can always blame it on somebody else. Indiana, the Russians, that's not the point. For it is, it's good that they had a march. I mean, I'm glad to see student's active and not playing video games. You know, I mean, you want people involved in democracy, and that's fine.

GUTFELD: What's wrong with video games?

WATTERS: Nothing. Just get outside and get some sunlight, that's all I'm saying. But, there are a lot of contradictions at the rally. There was one rapper who was performing and he was arrested last year on a weapons charge. Or there's one of these guys, Cavett Phillips, who's like a younger version of me that went out and asked questions, what's an assault rifle? And no one knows what an actual assault rifle is. And all of these people are being protected by heavily armed security guards. That's fine. The guy -- is it David Hogg or Hoggs? He started off and I've seen him on Fox News. He started off as this balanced, nice kid who was reporting the facts about what was happening at the school. And he's just now become a real bomb thrower. And someone like this, I think, isn't helping the conversation. It makes people get their backs up. This guy makes people think you're coming for my guns. You're going to say that Rubio is -- you know, has blood on his hands because he takes money from the NRA? Maybe he takes money from the NRA because he supports the second amendment.

It would be more scandalous if the NRA was buying off Democrats and they were voting for NRA legislation, even if they didn't believe in it. So, that doesn't make any sense to me. I also think that whenever there's a scandal in this country, the left and the media blame Republicans. It's the NRA, it's Fox News, it's Trump, it's Bush, no matter what happens because in this particular situation, the guy had a rifle because the bill of rights said an 18-year-old with no criminal record can have a rifle. And it was the police, and the school, and the FBI, those are the people that failed. Let's just take a broader look and not just target the NRA.

GUTFELD: You know, Kimberly, the thing that troubles me is how -- well, it's an explicit point that you cannot challenge someone over this kind of idea because they're teenagers, which to me, it's the opposite of education.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: If they enter the realm of debate, you respect them by engaging. You don't respect them by simply saying you're right.

GUILFOYLE: Right. I mean, you're not supposed to coddle them. If they want to engage in public discourse and debate, I applaud their desire and their ability and their right to do so. Therefore, there must be healthy debate on the other side as well. And I do see there's a bit of a backlash with David Hogg. Almost now to the point where it's boomeranging to help the NRA because the March for our Lives is becoming a little-bit tangled in with a gun grab motivation, which is palely problematic. So there's, you know, interesting dialogue and rhetoric going back and forth and communication, which is fantastic.

And they were marching now, you know, here in New York. In front of my apartment this weekend, the whole deal. And, you know, it's good to see people getting involved. That's what we want. That's what we fought for our freedoms for this country. But nevertheless, we also fought for -- to have our constitution and to have our bill of rights and second amendment. It's healthy and it's robust. And there are protections, you know, in place. So, listen, we'll see what happens, the fallout, you know, from this. But it's not just -- not too smart to just focus on the guns themselves.

GUTFELD: Dana, is it possible that the kind of incendiary rhetoric validates the law-abiding gun owners fears that it's not about bump stocks. It's about confiscation. When you see people up there saying I don't want any guns.

PERINO: Well, it depends on where you sit.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: If you are a gun owner, then you'll probably -- yes, you could be -- definitely could see it that way. This isn't -- you don't get a march like this about the balanced budget amendment.

GUTFELD: No.

PERINO: This is about passion, and I do think that there are attitudes that are changing about, like do something. They don't necessarily know what that is. And so, some of those solutions, to somebody that understands it more, sort of, like, that won't work.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: And if you're constantly scolding saying that won't work and that won't work, and that won't work, then you're missing kind of the point. There's a movement happening here. I don't know if it will last. Maybe something will change. But I do think that you see the attitudes changing. And so, one of the things that the president did so well, he's got that power to convene. And no one is going to turn down an invitation to come and talk. And it might be that he could be the one to bring some NRA folks together, and some of these March for our Lives folks together, saying let's get in a room and let's talk about it. Even if it doesn't lead to a solution, maybe it could calm the tension a little-bit.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I mean, it's -- the first step is you feel something and the next step is that you want to do something. But in between, you should read something, because there's so much literature out there about gun control that a lot of people don't know about. And if you just -- just take two hours.

PERINO: Can I say, David French has a piece up just posted on National Review, it's talking about gun-splaining.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: And it makes sense, because there actually are facts.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: It helps. And so, if you're looking for one article to read that would be it.

GUTFELD: All right. Up next, President Trump delivers a strong punishment to Russia for the poisoning of one of its former spies in the U.K. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The U.S. taking strong action against Russia for the poisoning of one of its former spies on British soil. President Trump ordering the largest expulsion of Russian intelligence officers in American history, kicking out 60 diplomats from the country. Twenty-two countries, including Canada and 14 E.U. nations have joined Britain and the U.S. in ordering out Russian diplomats.

The Kremlin is vowing a reciprocal response to the expulsions and still maintains it was not responsible for the nerve agent attack on March 4.

Jesse, Elliott Abrams from the Council on Foreign Relations was on "The Daily Briefing," and I asked him, on a scale of one to ten, how severe is this in diplo-speak; and he said he'd put it at an 8. Because one of the things it's doing, because you're doing this all around the world, is that you are starving the Russians of intel.

WATTERS: Right. So if you don't have men on the ground, you can't, you know, work your counterespionage capabilities. And that's good, because Russia is very good at that.

They're bad actors. A lot of people think Republicans have been apologists to the Russians for many years. It's not true. I mean, they've been propping up dictators in Syria and Tehran. They've been trading with North Korea. They're trying to exploit all the energy in the arctic, and they're trying to militarize space. And, you know, they're spending a lot of money on the military. There are areas of cooperation in the Middle East and on terrorism and things like that, but at the same time, you know, the tit- for-tat works, especially when it comes to intelligence.

PERINO: Juan, the other thing that this might do is provide some people a reassurance about the western alliance is still healthy and strong. This is logistically difficult to get all countries to do this at the same time, and nothing leaked.

WILLIAMS: And that's really impressive, and I think that people who were critical of President Trump for not taking action earlier or previously, really have to do -- you know, have -- take a second look here, because that's a lot of people. Sixty spies. So we're talking about, I think, 38 in D.C. You're throwing out people at the U.N. That's pretty substantial action.

And of course, I think John Bolton, the new national security advisor, is all for it, which is -- so it's an interesting moment there. I will say I think that the response from the Russians has been intriguing. They say stuff like, "Oh, this is an attempt to distract from Brexit" or "It's the Ukrainians. They're trying to set us up." Like wow.

PERINO: But one thing, Kimberly, that the Russians have done, is apparently in the different -- in all of their different media outlets that they control, they put out different story lines so that the public is just confused and they assume that the spy had it coming for some reason or another.

The other reason that was announced is that the White House next week will have a meeting between the Baltic states and the president. So then, again, further antagonizing Putin.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, I mean, he seems to have no problem with that. I'm sure the selection, too, of Ambassador Bolton for NSA antagonizes the Russians, as well.

PERINO: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Because he's quite vocal in terms of his distrust, you know, of them. And so I think it's interesting, because President Trump is trying to keep, you know, the back channels open to Moscow but at the same time, showing, you know, strength in terms of his positioning on Russia, his coordination with other countries. To let them know that this isn't business as usual.

So these are significant advancements that really were not present during President Obama's administration. And this is the first time, I think, that you really see some specific, declarative acts that look like, "OK, we're not just going to let Russia, you know, roll over on us." Whether it's, like, selling arms to the Ukraine, you know, in defiance of what Putin is doing over there and the number of spies that have been expelled, identified, eliminated, sent home. So I think that -- it bodes very well for the United States national security.

PERINO: After the announcement this morning, Greg, the Russian embassy in the U.S. did a Twitter poll asking how they should retaliate, if it was up to them to decide. So it was like freedom of expression.

GUTFELD: That's fantastic. OK. So what, you've got -- you've got Trump hires Bolton, who's tough on everyone, including Russia. Then he gets tough on Russia.

Then let's not forget China, which is now -- seems to be bending to Trump's bare-knuckle negotiation style.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Even somebody like me, who hates tariffs, has to admit their might be a bigger idea going on right now.

So what do you think CNN is doing right now? My guess is they're going on Porn Hub to research --

GUILFOYLE: Skintastic (ph).

GUTFELD: -- to research Stormy D.'s extensive catalog.

WATTERS: Oh.

PERINO: All right. Don't -- do not Google that. Ahead, former President Obama has a vision for our next generation of leaders. They should all be more like guess who? Him. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Many of us waited eight long years for the Obama presidency to come to an end. But if 44 had his way, there will be lots more leaders just like him in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After I left office, what I realized is that the Obama Foundation could potentially create a platform for young up-and-coming leaders.

If I could do that effectively, then -- then I would create 100 or 1,000 or a million young Barack Obamas or Michelle Obamas, or you know, the next group of people who could take that baton in that relay race that is human progress and continue to build on the work that we have done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: So apparently, Barack Obama is trying to clone himself to make a million young Obamas. Greg, that was a scintillating interview.

GUTFELD: You know, it's impossible, because we know he's one-of-a-kind.

The translation is create politically engaged people who want to do something, which I always say great, read something. Because so many solutions that activists demand from government end up making their communities worse and killing people.

I'll give you three of them. You look at minimum wage. That basically out-priced teenagers. So the teenage unemployment just skyrocketed when they started introducing minimum wage. That was a feel-good thing, that we have to do something.

Then you have banning criminal background checks at work. That just meant fewer blacks being hired. The companies that had criminal background checks hired more blacks.

Then you have redistribution through taxation in cities. What that did was it hollowed out the tax base. So everybody left cities like Detroit. For 40 years, you saw what happened when everybody left. It was because they couldn't afford to live there anymore.

PERINO: And then they added the soda tax.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And that backfired.

GUTFELD: So in sum, a million Barack Obamas would be fine, but I would prefer one million Thomas Sowells.

WATTERS: Ooh! Imagine if President Trump had said he wanted to have a million little Trumps running around.

GUTFELD: There might be.

WATTERS: I mean, they say that -- they say the president now is such a narcissist, and then you will remember Barack Obama.

PERINO: Well, a lot of president do create some sort of leadership institute, and you know, he is a young former president. So he's got a lot of life -- a long life ahead of him.

One thing -- it's something -- it's one thing to try to find young people that want to be leaders in the future. But one thing that the Democrats are dealing with right now is that they lost so many seats --

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: -- all across the country, because there wasn't a lot of attention paid to ceding that ground. So, you know, a generation or two from now, yes, great but next year is going to be tough.

WATTERS: And Kimberly, the Obama Foundation is going to have to compete with the Clinton Foundation for donations.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WATTERS: That could -- that's not going to get testy at all.

GUILFOYLE: I know. Can you imagine? It's like they're both trying to pull from the same cup. I don't know. We'll see what happens.

But I like that he mentioned Michelle Obama, trying to be positive on this Monday.

WATTERS: Yes. Little Michelles running around.

GUILFOYLE: He didn't just say himself. It was also Michelle. So that was good.

But can you imagine? I think it's like the best fund-raising clip you could ever have for the Republican Party. Be like, "Oh, no, it's coming."

WATTERS: A million Obamas running around.

GUILFOYLE: What are we going to do about this?

WATTERS: Send $25 now.

GUILFOYLE: Send $25,000. Yes, exactly.

WATTERS: Juan, what do you think?

GUILFOYLE: Look at he's smiling.

WILLIAMS: I just think it's wonderful. I mean, the idea that young people will get involved. In fact, I thought you guys were going to attack him on the fact that he said a lot of our problems are caused by old men. And then he had to apologize and he said no offense to men who are old.

But here's the situation where, you know, we talked about the march this weekend on the guns and Obama saying this. I think what you're seeing is Democratic political leaders hungry to keep the energy up going towards the midterms. And thinking that, if you can get young people engaged, whether it's on the gun issue, health care, education, that you will get a change in terms of response during the midterms, when Democrats typically are indifferent.

WATTERS: All right. Speaking of Obama, one of his former aides had a little advice for his fellow libs. Some freaking out about President Trump, here's some advice. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: President Trump sure does provoke the ire of the left, but it's not good for liberals to get so excited all the time about him, says CNN commentator Van Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I just have to say, liberals and progressives spend so much time freaking out about every tweet, everything that Donald Trump does. Every day is Armageddon. That then, when somebody comes who might bring us Armageddon, we're out of adjectives. I think Bolton is very dangerous, and I think we've exhausted ourselves on everything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: What do you think, Dana? I mean, the idea is, well, gosh, you guys are up in arms about everything. You're going to get -- you're going to run out of adjectives.

PERINO: Well, I think he's right. I like Van Jones a lot. I disagree with him that John Bolton is dangerous. And we could go into all the reasons I think that John Bolton will be a very good national security advisor.

But the question here is that Van Jones is giving very good advice to the Democrats. And they would be wise to take it, his advice. He was one of the only Democrats who publicly said early on that Donald Trump could win the election. He grew up in Tennessee, in a small town. He recognized what was happening in America, not just on the coasts. And so, you know, they are getting free advice there on CNN. They should take it.

WILLIAMS: So Jesse, if -- one of the things he said was, you know, what happens if Mueller comes back, and it's not this, you know, guilty, guilty, guilty but has something else? Then people will be like, "Oh, well, nothing much."

WATTERS: Yes, I don't think they're going to be saying "Nothing much." They're going to say that Mueller is a Republican and, you know, he was in cahoots with Trump's lawyers.

I like Van Jones, too. I think Van Jones is -- he's right sometimes when he says that Russia is a nothing burger, and then he's so wrong sometimes when he says Trump's election was a white-lash. But I like him, because he's right half the time and for a Democrat, that's pretty good.

You have to save your outrage, though, because the Democrats will get outraged over Trump retweeting a video of him body-slamming a CNN logo. And then Trump will repeal the Obamacare mandate. And they're just exhausted at that point. So just, you know, save your ammunition for stuff that really matters.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly, what happens if people say, "Oh, no, Trump is a real threat, and I feel like I'm standing up to a real threat to American democracy." Is Van Jones wrong in that case?

GUILFOYLE: No, no, use your voice, like you do here, Juan. Right? I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.

I know Van Jones a very long time. I knew him years and years and years ago back in San Francisco. And he's, you know, evolved as a pretty effective voice for his party. And he's also quite nice company at the White House Christmas party. Whatever it was, the nerd prom.

WILLIAMS: Greg, what do you think?

GUTFELD: Everyone has got a Van Jones. You don't know what the word "jones" means? When you're jonesing for something?

GUILFOYLE: What are you looking at me for?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

WATTERS: He looked at me first.

GUTFELD: I think -- I think it's the party who cried wolf. That's what you're seeing. And I think the big step for Democrats, and it's something that Van Jones could do, is that they have to stop holding the sins of the dead over that of the living. Because that's the big problem here. The oppressor versus the oppressed argument. It's reducing their party to a loose union of grievance mongers.

And I think there's -- it's time for some kind of new enlightenment on race. So that -- because right now, we're operating on so many half-truths and exaggerations and faulty logic. And, you know, I'd hate to be jonesing for Van. But he seems to be one of the few people who sees this.

WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing," it's up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: Big basketball weekend. The Final Four is set. It was also a big basketball weekend for me, the 40th anniversary of the only time my favorite NBA team won a championship. The 1978 Washington Bullets.

I got to say hello to the players from that team this weekend. Here I am with Coach Dick Motta. Here I am with Hall of famer Alvin Hayes. And here I am with Phil Chenier. His number was retired this weekend.

And of course, you can't forget the cheerleaders. And here's a big "Five" fan, Sandy Grevey. She's the wife of player Kevin Grevey. And here I am in my throwback Bullets warm-up jacket signed by the whole team. It was hoops heaven for me.

GUILFOYLE: That's cute. I love Alvin Hayes.

WILLIAMS: He loves you. He tells me he texts you.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he does. And he texts me during the show, and he gave my son a basketball and jersey and his book. I love him. God bless him. Big fan of the show. All right. I added 13 points to yours.

All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, I also have some pictures, too, from the National Foursquare Hall Of Fame.

PERINO: Awesome.

GUTFELD: Roll them? We don't have them? OK. The -- my new article is out. It's called "The End of The World Or Not."

GUILFOYLE: Of course.

GUTFELD: And it's actually about the effects of constantly screaming about the apocalypse and the panic from Trump and what that does to the world. It's a good read. On FOXNews.com/opinion.

GUILFOYLE: Wow. Van Jones might want to do an interpretive reading of that with you.

GUTFELD: We could have coffee together.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Dana.

PERINO: Well, I have anxiety about few things.

GUILFOYLE: About a lot.

PERINO: but one of them is trash and the accumulation of it. In the Great Pacific garbage patch. See the size of that?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PERINO: That is the amount of plastic that's gathered since about the '80s. It's three times the size of France. Our NOAA marine debris program, they're trying to figure out a way to deal with it. I really think that President Trump --

GUILFOYLE: You want Trump to do it.

PERINO: -- could lead an international coalition to figure out not only just how to clean that up but to stop it from happening.

GUTFELD: Three times the size --

PERINO: Of France.

GUTFELD: -- of France?

PERINO: And it's all the little plastic, and it's all gathered there. And they need help getting it out of the ocean.

GUTFELD: That could make -- why don't they just declare it a country?

GUILFOYLE: OK, OK, OK. We've got to hurry up now. Jesse.

WATTERS: OK. Little Rocket Man has some competition out in California. There is a guy, a rocket scientist named Mad Mike Hughes. I guess he's a mad scientist. He believes Earth is flat, and he shot himself up in a rocket. And he actually wants to run for governor of California, so that makes perfect sense. The landing was not so smooth. He had to be kind of carted off. The daredevil hurt himself. He suffered some minor injuries. I guess the earth is not flat. But you know, better luck next time, Mad Mike.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I have a super-cute one. New Orleans teen had the prom photo shoot of her dreams. OK? So even though her on-duty Marine boyfriend couldn't stand by her side, Skyler Fontaine's boyfriend, Gage Moak, couldn't take her to the prom because he's currently 1,000 miles away for Marine training. So she still wanted to include him in her special night. Luckily, an adorable substitute ready to step in. His 2-year-old baby brother Clay donned a Marine uniform identical to her [SIC] brother's. Very cute.

PERINO: Cute.

WILLIAMS: That was wonderful.

GUILFOYLE: "Special Report" is up next. Hey, Bret.

BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: Hey, Kimberly, thank you.

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