California governor calls DOJ lawsuit a 'political stunt'

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California governor calls DOJ lawsuit a 'political stunt'

The Department of Justice sues California alleging obstruction of federal immigration enforcement; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 7, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

A big move by the Trump administration, its strongest method yet for jurisdiction that provide safe havens to illegal immigrants, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announcing a lawsuit today against the Sanctuary State of California from its capital, Sacramento.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: California, we have a problem. The California legislator has enacted of law, designed to intentionally obstruct the work of our sworn immigration officers.

That is why the department filed a suit against the State of California to invalidate these unjust laws and to immediately freeze their affect. I fundamentally believe that my core that we should not further endanger the lives of those who risk everything for us because some officials want to violate the law in promoting an agenda that the American people reject.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Sessions specifically called out the mayor who warned illegals last month that the feds were coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SESSIONS: The mayor of Oakland has actively -- has been actively seeking to help illegal aliens avoid apprehension by ICE. So here is my message to Mayor Schaaf, how dare you -- how dare you needlessly endanger the lives of our law enforcement officers to promote a radical open borders agenda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: California's governor responding with some fire of his own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JERRY BROWN, CALIFORNIA: This is really unprecedented for the chief law enforcement of the United States to come out to California and act more like Fox News than a law enforcement officer. This is a political stunt, and it's not about the truth. It's not about protecting our state. It is about dividing America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, no, you didn't. All right, the state is getting a visit from President Trump next week as well. OK, so, let's go, California, shall we, Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I was triggered by him, Mr. Brown. I believe there should be a sanctuary city for Fox News -- an entire city, just like airports for CNN. Entire cities were all you can listen to is Fox News.

In California, that's a true sanctuary city, a liberal city. Want to create cities with that? That's the problem with this whole story with the mayor of Oakland. Three words that make me giggle.

If you follow the law, and you're breaking the law, you realize that this could easily be reversed. People can do this to you, too. If you believe this law isn't worth following, someone else can do to you -- for example, a sanctuary city for the unborn.

I mean, the media would go apoplectic if you said here's a city where we will not perform any abortions at all. That would not happen. That would not happen. But here, you can do that because you agree with this law.

And I think what these battles are designed to -- are designed for is to create celebrities, right? If you stand up against evil Trump, you're going to become famous. Especially when you are the mayor of Oakland, which is like you don't have any achievements behind you -- when you are the mayor of Oakland. So become famous by standing up to evil Trump. That's her achievement.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Dana, what do you make of this? I mean, obviously it is symbolic. You are going straight to sort of the root of the problem, making an appearance, there are talking about this and it's been widespread in terms of criticism of California and San Francisco in particular is a safe haven for illegals.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think it's an interesting strategy and possibly a really good one for the federal government because at this point, they are on offense and the state is going to be on defense.

Previously, it's sort always been like the feds were on their heels. Well now, by filing this lawsuit, the state is going to have to show up and try to defend themselves on these cases. And I think -- I am not a lawyer, but I think the supremacy clause of the constitution is going to bear out.

We know that the courts have been all over the place on this. So it I think this actually is probably a useful exercise for us to find out, OK, where is the law on it? On the political side of things, everyone gets to rally.

So, Jerry Brown loved it today. And, everyone on the Democrats will love this today. President Trump's people will have loved what Jeff Sessions did and then they are going to get excited because the president will be there next week, and so it is setting up for like high noon at the border.

The last things I would say is I am curious about the point of this mayor, and then the legal point about her tipping off her citizens that the I.C.E. raid is coming. I don't know if it's illegal. But it doesn't have to be illegal for her to be sound wrong -- for it to sound like the wrong thing to do.

And I was like -- if she was giving a heads up to a drug lord that the cops were coming and there's going to be a bust, that would be obstruction because she is trying to help out the drug lords. This one, I don't know where this would actually end up but it does feel like it's the wrong thing to do.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Jesse.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Sessions should throw the book at this mayor because if this happens once and it's allowed, and everyone's going to do it. Like you said, these many celebrities. I'm glad Sessions woke up. I haven't heard from him in a while. That's good.

I think Governor Moonbeam is going to go down here. The law is not on his side. His state is basically preventing the federal government from conducting raids and doing their jobs. They just did a raid the other day. And look at some of these nasty people.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WATTERS: Two hundred and thirty-two illegals arrested. Hundred and eighty of them convicted criminals. And Look at some of the crimes very serious offenses. Child sex crimes, weapons charges, assault. Some of them had been back and forth over the border numerous times. So these aren't good people.

These aren't just like regular farm workers that are trying to make a living. These are bad hombres. So keeping criminals in cities is dangerous and dumb. A kindergartener can understand that logic. I don't understand why the Democrats don't get that. States have clashed over issues for years. I mean, over pot, over marriage, over voter I.D. with the federal government, now it's over immigration.

The difference here, it's about public safety. And let's just pretend something. Juan, if some local gun dealer wasn't complying with the federal background checks when they sold weapons, the say, you know, I don't agree with that.

I don't like the database deal with the FBI. I'm not even going to check to or I am not going to cooperate, it's the same kind of thing. It's dangerous. The Democrats at least should admit that they are pro-open borders and pro-illegal immigration because everybody would eventually know.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I see. Well, that's very interesting.

GUILFOYLE: Two different viewpoints from men in purple ties.

WILLIAMS: That hombre -- they are so undermine, maybe you and Trump can have tacos for lunch. I just think this is so absurd. On the first place, the mayor of Oakland is not getting in the way of the law. She is not stopping them from conducting their rates, not at all.

WATTERS: She tipped them off.

WILLIAMS: And in fact -- no, no. What she did was, she informally learned these rates were coming and to deal with a high level of anxiety right now in the immigrant community specifically...

WATTERS: Oh, these poor illegal alien rapists are getting anxious. I mean come on, Juan, the people you are sticking up for.

WILLIAMS: I will tell you what, let's get American rapists -- let's get American rapists off the streets.

WATTERS: We're killing both.

WILLIAMS: OK. But here you have a situation where there is three things at stake according to Xavier Becerra who is the attorney general of California. He says that he's not going to allow cops to ask people about citizenship. So it is not like papers, please.

If you stop somebody at a stoplight -- no, you can't just start asking people like, two, no workplace raids without a subpoena or warrant. And finally, no contract with fort profit organizations that come in and grab people and hold them for the feds.

This is not interfering with the federal government or interfering with ICE. This is simply saying that local money and local authority understands that, as Jesse said, this is a public safety issue.

WATTERS: Yes, it is.

WILLIAMS: And you want the immigrants in your state, in your city to cooperate with police and not be afraid...

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: You are not going to get deported for dropping a dime, Juan. That never happens. If you snitch, that's a good thing and they are going to keep you here.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Allow me to make my larger point on this, which is, that I think that this is a distraction. I think when Sessions -- I'm surprised that you're putting down Trump's attorney general, but that's OK.

WATTERS: I just haven't heard a lot from him.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Maybe you are on to something. Maybe he is appeasing President Trump and setting up for his visit next week because he feels like maybe this...

WATTERS: He may be doing his job, Juan.

PERINO: Do you don't think Jeff Sessions believes that?

WILLIAMS: No, no. I do. But I think maybe he right now is pushing the suit because that is the news of the day -- the suit, Dana. The second thing I would say is, maybe he doesn't want people to focus on why his wife got into this country on a so-called Einstein exception -- Einstein, really? She is in Einstein?

GUTFELD: You don't think she is smart?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: How did her parents get in here? Oh, chain migration. I thought he hated chain migration but not when it's him.

WATTERS: I think Melania qualifies for merit-based.

WILLIAMS: I say you should...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: There aren't any credible statistics that talk about how such -- this issue affects cooperation with police. At least I haven't seen it and I've been looking for it. The one thing when you say -- instead like, when you said I'm not a lawyer and where is the law on this?

The real winners in all of this stuff are lawyers because every issue, that we talk about, it always goes back to lawyers and cases and going to court. And it really is getting boring for me. But I want to add, which lead me to my next point, where is this going actually? Is this something that is worth fighting or dying for?

To violate the law to allow symbolic or real sanctuary for illegal aliens, which, Jesse, points out the ones that are being arrested are criminals. Is this something you are willing to fight and die for?

Is this like -- do you think this is as big as a fight against slavery or for civil rights, or the women's right to vote? Do you actually believe that? That You would rather put our countries laws for the sake of illegal immigrants, and which, some them are actually criminal.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You should check the numbers thins. Most Americans not only support the DREAMers, they support the idea that the people who've been here, that 11 million -- 11 million population should be allowed...

GUTFELD: I support the DREAMers. We are not talking about that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You are talking about a very different group. Let's distinguish between the DREAMers and people who are criminal predators, criminal recidivists that have fought...

GUTFELD: The argument you use whenever we talk about radical Islam and you accuses of tainting all of Islam.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: You are doing that.

WILLIAMS: No.

GUTFELD: Yes, you are.

WILLIAMS: What I was saying to, Kimberly, was all the people whoa are here illegally, and I hope you hear this, Jesse, are not criminals.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That is the argument that we need.

GUILFOYLE: How about the people -- the God-fearing people, law-abiding people that come into this country from other countries and they get, obtain citizenship like my father who came from Ireland and served in the military. My mother moved over from Puerto Rico to San Francisco.

Worked hard, worked jobs in the city, worked as a teacher, did the whole thing. They weren't trying to violate any laws. They weren't commit any crimes.

So you know, there's a healthy interest, believe me, I'm part of the Latino community of which I am one of the members to make sure that the laws are upheld in this country. That's the right thing to do, to be law-abiding and respectful of those who want to come in. You can still have an open policy while respecting the laws in the book.

GUTFELD: You have the two best parades.

GUILFOYLE: They are a little unruly.

GUTFELD: No, they are the best.

GUILFOYLE: We can all concur at that.

WILLIAMS: You have to watch out for ICE Agents at the parade though.

GUILFOYLE: Debbie Downer -- coming up, the last big Farrakhan problem ahead of the crucial midterm elections. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: We have heard many Democrats over the last year accusing President Trump of racism, bigotry and more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: He claims he's bringing people together. But make no mistake, he is a dangerous, unprincipled, divisive, and shameful races.

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: The reason he is reluctant to denounce white supremacy and neo-nazis and clans members is because he has some level of sympathy for them.

REP. AL GREEN (D), TEXAS: We have elected a bigot as president. What are we going to do about the fact that we have a president in the White House who has, on many occasions, made comments that had racist and bigoted overtones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Those same lawmakers are radio silent on racist and anti-Semitic Louis Farrakhan who delivered yet another disgusting, hate filled tyrant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS FARRAKHAN, AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADER: White folks are going down. And Satan is going down. And Farrakhan, by God's grace, has pulled the cover off of that satanic Jew. And I'm here to say, your time is up. Your world is through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Wow. At least seven House Dems are known to have direct ties to the nation of Islam founder. The Republican Jewish coalition is now calling on them to resign. So, Juan, should they resign?

WILLIAMS: No.

WATTERS: Why not?

WILLIAMS: First of all, Louis Farrakhan is a cult figure. In fact, in recent years, they do business now with the scientologists and the Dianetics and all that. Let me just tell you thin, it's a cult figure.

So among black Americans, I think people view Louis Farrakhan as sort of a marginal figure. But one is it will let you get back to Malcolm X in the like of a nation of Islam. He always stood up for black people and promoted the idea that even if you're in prison, if you are desperate to it, you can be pulled up.

And said, in the face of racism, black people are good, in fact, you know, with the Jewish community would say that they are the chosen, Farrakhan says, you know, black people -- it gets into that kind of dynamic. But I am the only one I think sitting at this table who has attended a savior's day speech by Louis Farrakhan.

WATTERS: Are you sure you want to do that, Juan?

WILLIAMS: It is the truth. I interviewed Louis Farrakhan. And let me just say that I think it's such an intriguing thing that you would say here are people who are complaining about the president of the United States exhibiting racist, bigoted opinions and attitudes, exciting the far right and the alt-right, and the Nazis.

And say that's like Louis Farrakhan. I don't think nation of Islam is standing outside a synagogue in Charlottesville with guns forcing Jewish people to go out the back door.

WATTERS: Juan, you can't just call Trump a racist and hang out with Louis Farrakhan. I think black racism and white racism should be the same, and need to be condemned on all times.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Louis Farrakhan should be condemned for that statement about Jewish people, without a doubt.

GUTFELD: That is not all he said.

WILLIAMS: What?

GUTFELD: That is not all he said.

WATTERS: It's not just one thing.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You said your piece. You defended your guy.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I defended him?

GUTFELD: Yes, he has called white people race of devils. He has complemented Adolf Hitler. And yet the media -- the point is, the media coverage only links racism to Republicans. That's not fair. The media elevates white racism and it does essentially their own public relations for people like David Duke and Richard Spencer.

They do that in order to smear the right. But what they do and what, Juan, has said when he describes Farrakhan as marginal, that's the strategy. You say that's marginal because you don't want your bad eggs on your side of the political fence to smear your party.

So you're saying, we don't take him seriously. He's just a cult figure. But your guys -- your guys over there, David Duke, he's not a cult figure or some dude who organized a stupid march, he's actually got real power. Sorry, Farrakhan has been around for what, 50 years to years. He's got real power. He's got real power.

WILLIAMS: What power? Is he endorsing a presidential candidate?

GUTFELD: He has been pictured with presidents.

WATTERS: He actually pictured in 2005 with Barack Obama.

WILLIAMS: Before he was president.

WATTERS: OK, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, Juan. He is still a racist. And if Republicans have been hanging out with David Duke, Kimberly, and they had taken photos with him and called David Duke a great guy, they would be run out of the swamp.

GUILFOYLE: They have been running out of the swamp -- swampy dripping and all, and yes, but there is a double standard here. So I guess it's OK for the nation of Islam and Farrakhan to say that white people deserve to die, to call Jews satanic. No.

So you have to be consistent. And you must be honest and therefore, callout both as inappropriate racist rhetoric that has no place in our society today.

So we cannot sit here and condone this as some kind of appropriate free expression when it is racist hate speech that should be called out.

That is why they are saying, look, fair is fair. Either one side of the equation, you do it to the other. So when people like Maxine Waters and Keith Ellison, and Gregory Meeks are associating with an individual like this, that is inappropriate. Where are their statements? Where is their disavow?

WATTERS: Do you think that they are going to have to pay any price for their association with Louis Farrakhan?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No. In their districts? No. In the media, unlikely. But remember President Trump was asked however many times, do you disavow David Duke, and a lot of people on the right side said, no one even knows him anymore. It's a similar argument that they are just called and it figures. Then that actually should be a good thing. I mean if they are actually not having an impact, fine. I don't know. I don't think David Duke has any power. And I think Louis Farrakhan does certainly have a following. That doesn't necessarily give you power. I didn't hear, Juan, defend him.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

PERINO: ... him as a person.

WILLIAMS: Not at all.

PERINO: And I understand why you would've gone to the speech if you are reporting on it or interviewing him.

GUTFELD: My point is that the media should afford -- I agree. The best way to deal with marginal, racist cult figures is to ignore them.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: But the media does not ignore them. They ignore one side but they do not ignore the other. They prefer to bury the bad eggs on the side that they are most affiliated with and they played -- bad eggs on the other side are something bigger.

WILLIAMS: Greg, seriously. Does the nation of Islam show up and threaten Jewish people in a synagogue?

GUTFELD: They have done a lot of interesting things. Come on.

WATTERS: I think all, Kimberly and Greg, are saying...

GUTFELD: And I am a white devil.

WATTERS: ... is that consistency within media the way they treat these...

GUILFOYLE: Nation even of Islam also recruits some prison inmates and dangerous gang members, OK? So, they get them from there to come out and be militant, and spread vile hate. So let's not call this charming.

WATTERS: All right. Drumbeats growing louder for a second special counsel to investigate the FBI and DOJ. Developments, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Top G.O.P. lawmakers stepping up pressure on the Justice Department to appoint a second special counsel. The heads of two powerful committees sent a note yesterday to the attorney general and his deputy to investigate allegations detailed in the Nunes memo. Accusations of bias and surveillance abuse at the DOJ and FBI. Here is more from Trey Gowdy and Bob Goodlatte.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREY GOWDY (R), HOUSE OVERSIGHT CHAIRMAN: What changed for me was the knowledge that there are two dozen witnesses that Michael Horowitz, the inspector general, would not have access to. Yes, only one concludes in that special counsel.

BOB GOODLATTE (R), HOUSE JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: It was abused by a gathering of information from a very suspect source, not disclosing that information to the court, and in my opinion, getting authority to look into the background of an American citizen's life on questionable circumstances.

I think that in order to set the record straight, clear what's going on at the FBI and make sure this does not happen again, we need to have an outside special counsel investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Adam Schiff, ranking Democrat on the House Intel Committee, says this may help serve the president's interests but does nothing to serve the national interest.

And, Kimberly, it's unusual for the executive branch to try to see ground and power, and turn it over to the executive branch. That is not typically...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Yes, whatever. What you do to one equation, you have to do to the other.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So, listen, I thought that it was a good statement. The only thing I have seen come out of Schiff's mouth -- I mean, that was a night release statement. It makes sense, he is trying to make an argument against that but you've seen actually a little bit of partisan divide on this issue in terms of some other Republican saying that this is warranted.

It should come forward, and then the Tea Party with Rob Fletcher, thinking that it would be appropriate to get another special counsel, where at the same time, you have other Republicans saying, you know what, perhaps this is actually going to be a waste of time and money.

And maybe not heading in the right direction, going backwards to investigate, revisionist history, et cetera. You do have to kind of keep in mind what's in the best interests of a country as kind of lead it right had so eloquently put forward the other day.

PERINO: And her idea, Juan, was to try to just wrap it up. This -- this would not be wrapping it up.

GUILFOYLE: No, it wouldn't.

PERINO: This means, it would be -- fully exacerbating it to another special counsel.

WILLIAMS: This would be -- this would be ratcheting it up. I mean, this would be going the other direction.

So I mean, there's no getting away from what you heard Adam Schiff said, which is that this is not in the national interests. I think it would drag it out.

But he also said -- and I think this is really important -- that at this moment, it looks like President Trump and now Republicans in the House want to investigate everything but Russia and its ties to the Trump campaign and the idea that we should be doing something to stop Russia from influencing what's going happen in the midterms and in 2020.

So to me, this is -- you know, I think this presidency is a lot of distraction. You always have to watch the other hand. We've lost Gary Cohn, his top economic advisor. You've got tremendous divides in the party over the trade issue and the tariffs. And of course, you've got Stormy Daniels out there suing the president. And now -- so this is what they want us to pay attention to.

PERINO: Well, I think, Greg, in one -- one of the things that's happened as we continue to push tribalism and nobody trusts the other side --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: -- you actually can't have a bipartisan report, because no one is going to trust it. So they're going to push it over to make what they want, is another special counsel.

GUTFELD: Of course, more lawyers.

PERINO: As you said.

GUTFELD: Lawyers are like the new toy dog. Everyone's got to have one in their purse.

I do agree with Juan, though. This is a distraction, but it's a distraction against a great economy, the decimation of ISIS, North Korea possibly coming to the table in a historic way. We don't know. Incredible job numbers from this week. So yes, it is a distraction, but it's a distraction against some amazing stuff that's going on.

And I must disagree with Kimberly.

WILLIAMS: No.

GUTFELD: I do not believe Woody --

GUILFOYLE: You're foolish.

GUTFELD: I know. I don't believe Woody from "Toy Story" made a good point. He said that -- Schiff said that this was only serving the interests of the president. But by that logic --

GUILFOYLE: Not the national interests.

GUTFELD: Yes. Of the president.

GUILFOYLE: No, I don't think that was a good point. I think that was the best he could come up with --

GUTFELD: OK.

GUILFOYLE: -- with his positioning, that it was a well-articulated statement, not one that I ascribe to or believe in.

GUTFELD: All right. But I still disagree with you anyway.

GUILFOYLE: Good luck.

GUTFELD: Because I believe that the argument could be used against him, that all he's doing is serving the opposite, to work against Donald Trump. So it becomes a pointless observation to say, "This is just to help the president." But all Adam Schiff is doing is trying to hurt the president. He's out -- he's out for his party.

GUILFOYLE: A.K.A. Shillue?

GUTFELD: Shillue.

PERINO: And the other thing that happened, Jesse, is that in terms of being careful what you wish for, is that at some point, the other side will be in power. And then investigating going backwards is not always necessarily in your best interests.

WATTERS: Yes, but I don't think anybody cares about that. Everybody lives in the moment, and they want to attack the other side now.

I think we should appoint a second special counsel, because the Department of Justice inspector general does not have access or subpoena power over two dozen individuals. So how are you going to do --

PERINO: That's actually -- that's not --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: How are you going to do an investigation if there's 24 people that you're not going to be able to have access to? And when there is a second special counsel, Juan, why don't they just stack it with Republican donors, Trump fans --

WILLIAMS: What?

WATTERS: -- and people that hate -- what do you mean? Isn't that what the Mueller investigation is?

WILLIAMS: I think Bob Mueller --

WATTERS: Stacked with Democratic donors?

WILLIAMS: Excuse me.

WATTERS: You know what they should do? Second special counsel, stack it with Republican donors. You didn't have a problem with that, so you shouldn't have a problem with this.

WILLIAMS: Excuse me, Woody. I have to say that Bob Mueller is a Republican.

WATTERS: Yes, but he stacked his deck with all --

WILLIAMS: I see, I see.

WATTERS: -- Democratic donors and not one Republican donor.

WILLIAMS: Oh, please.

PERINO: All right. Stop. More in --

GUTFELD: Can we talk about Goodlatte?

PERINO: Goodlatte?

GUTFELD: Goodlatte.

GUILFOYLE: Goodlatte.

GUTFELD: That sounds really tasty. A good latte.

PERINO: Right now.

GUILFOYLE: What about a shout-out for Hemmer? Great job?

GUTFELD: He did OK.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: It was OK.

PERINO: All right. I'm going to move on. More important matters to attend to next: "The Bachelor" finale, part two, aired last night. And Greg watched it for us so we didn't have to. Don't miss this. It's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "The Bachelor" finale was last night. Here's the high point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just made a big circle. It's a trash fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That it is, it's a trash fire. The show boiled down to a vacuous cad proposing to a woman after he had previously proposed to, then dumped and humiliated on live television, a different gal. And yes, I said gal.

PERINO: Sounds good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIE LUYENDYK JR., 'THE BACHELOR': I've made some bad decisions. But the best decision was running back to you.

Lauren Elizabeth Burnham, will you marry me?

LAUREN BURNHAM, CONTESTANT, 'THE BACHELOR': Definitely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That's a mistake.

The second woman accepted the proposal from this snore of a bore. Because you know love conquers all, especially when a producer demands it.

Now that other dumped woman confronted the jerk about his deceitful character and he apologized. She forgave him.

Why? Well, Arie used modern therapy-speak to paper over his actions. The woman is still hurt, but he feels her pain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUYENDYK: I do regret -- regret proposing that day, because I wasn't fully ready.

BECCA KUFRIN, CONTESTANT, 'THE BACHELOR': Then why did you?

LUYENDYK: I think the pressure of this. The pressure of being "The Bachelor," knowing that there's a timeline and having to make that decision on that day.

KUFRIN: But you always have a choice, and you didn't need to make that choice.

LUYENDYK: I know, and I own up to that. That's on me. That is totally on me. I have no excuse for that. I apologize for that.

KUFRIN: And I forgive you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That was -- that was fast.

GUILFOYLE: That was a little scripted.

GUTFELD: Sorry, ladies, he's taken -- at least for three or four more months.

So did Becca, the spurned ex-fiancee, learn her lesson that seeking love on a reality show often doesn't pan out the way one expects? Well, she agreed to be "The Bachelorette" in the next series. Yes, a show humiliates you and your solution: return to the very show that humiliates you. It's like me on "The Five."

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop.

GUILFOYLE: You love it.

GUTFELD: So then they paraded all the new male flash for her to peruse.

GUILFOYLE: No!

GUTFELD: How quickly Arie the creep was tossed on the heap. One man showed up with a majestic steed. So who needs an ass when you can have a horse? I wish Becca the best of luck and look forward to seeing Arie on the cover of "Us Weekly," inevitably caught making out with a groupie at a promotional event for cheap vodka.

That always happens. All right, who watched it besides me? Give it up. Jeez Louise. I have a feeling I'm only going to be asking myself questions.

GUILFOYLE: You often do.

GUTFELD: Yes. So Greg -- you know what. Kimberly, this is the --

GUILFOYLE: I'll help you.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's -- the story is as old as time itself.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, look, they have to make it -- whatever. God, they should have left this with the pro. "Kimberly's Dating Tips."

All right. Here's the thing. They have to make it exciting, because they have to get renewed every season. So I think a little bit of this --

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: -- is contrived. You can tell by some of this == like the scripted apology.

GUTFELD: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Very, like you said, modern therapy speak. Her response back, "I forgive you." Because nobody wants a bitter "Bachelorette." If she's going to go forward to pick and to choose, you have to say, OK, she's healed. She's moved forward. She has closure. She's ready and willing and looking for love again. Otherwise, people say, "Why are you setting her up on a rebound situation?" Right? Because people will say that.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: But this guy, you're 100 percent right. God, don't let him into a Tito's Vodka event. That's the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) vodka. Don't ruin Tito's good name.

GUTFELD: You know, Dana, some angry fans put up 16 billboards slamming "The Bachelor," which I think -- if you feel that strongly -- if you feel that strongly about a TV show, it's kind of a problem with you.

PERINO: Yes. It's like taking "Three Billboards" to a whole new level.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Sixteen billboards. And one thing I really can't stand about this guy, is that he said that "Television made me do it."

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: OK, so just because you go on television doesn't mean you leave your moral code at the door.

GUTFELD: Unless you're me.

PERINO: Well -- and remember --

WATTERS: I'm not getting dragged into that.

PERINO: The other thing about the therapy-speak is that when she says, "I forgive you." And "OK, thanks." So he thinks her forgiving him lets him off the hook.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Remember, ladies and everyone, forgiveness is something you do for yourself. That doesn't mean that his behavior is excused.

GUTFELD: Right. Juan --

GUILFOYLE: She dodged a bullet, let's be honest.

GUTFELD: She did.

GUILFOYLE: She doesn't want that, like, creepy loser.

GUTFELD: She did. And Juan --

PERINO: Am I wrong now?

GUTFELD: Juan, what is your take on this?

WILLIAMS: You know, I don't watch. So I'm very interested. I was mentioning to you guys in the break that I saw in The New York Times that this was, "The Bachelor" story, the most read story in The New York Times yesterday. So all the stuff about Trump and scandals, no. Everybody is interested in this.

GUTFELD: That was your point last segment.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. That was my point --

GUILFOYLE: He's upset, because he doesn't want to distract away from POTUS.

GUTFELD: He wants to talk about Stormy.

WILLIAMS: No. I'd love to talk about Stormy.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: It's stormy outside.

WILLIAMS: It is. It is.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, there she is. Go.

WILLIAMS: But I think what this reminded me of, though, is what's going on with reality TV. How much life is like reality TV. Because remember, earlier in the week, we were talking about this guy Sam Nunberg and whether or not he was tipsy and should they be interviewing a guy who liked like -- well, this is humiliating that poor woman, I thought, unnecessarily. I felt very strongly that that was bad behavior by him, and I don't think that that should be held up as an example for anybody. But on TV now, you can go to "Real Housewives" or this stuff.

GUTFELD: Yes. Jesse, I know that you wanted to watch this but were very busy.

WATTERS: I missed it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: I don't feel any better or worse about missing it. I kind of want to talk to you about it, because I have nothing to add to this. So you watched this at home.

GUTFELD: Right.

WATTERS: OK. Were you drinking any wine?

GUTFELD: Yes. I was working on my book. I was working on my book, drinking wine.

GUILFOYLE: And emailing us.

WATTERS: Were we doing a "Bachelor" pool? Did you do that?

GUTFELD: No. I did a little bit of tweeting. A little bit of tweeting.

WATTERS: Did you go online and comment about it?

GUTFELD: No.

WATTERS: OK.

GUTFELD: No, no, no, no.

WATTERS: Did you have with any witty tweets about this?

GUTFELD: No. I was -- they were mainly bitter and ugly and mean.

WATTERS: OK.

GUTFELD: I don't think they were very funny, so they were my typical tweets.

WATTERS: OK.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. Angry, bitter and alone.

GUTFELD: But at least today I didn't have to wake up and feel any regret.

WATTERS: I have a question.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: If you were one of the "Bachelor" contestants --

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: -- and you had to come in out of the limo, what would your entry move be? Because some people ride on a horse.

GUILFOYLE: Unicorn.

WATTERS: They tell a joke. They get on their knee. How would you do it?

GUILFOYLE: You're getting wrapped.

GUTFELD: I wouldn't get on my knee, because she wouldn't see me.

GUILFOYLE: He'd be invisible. She's like, "Where is he?"

GUTFELD: I would just walk out and I would shake her hand and say, "Nice to meet you. I'm not going to make any impact on you now. But by the end of this show, you will learn to despise me with every fiber of your being."

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like -- kind of like --

GUTFELD: "It's not about winning you over."

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like now.

WATTERS: Yes, the show.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. All right. All right. They're waving me on.

GUILFOYLE: -- feeling.

GUTFELD: A kid gets kicked off the bus for bullying and his dad makes him run to school instead. Good punishment? Our thoughts. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Is this good old-fashioned parenting or is it punishment gone too far? A dad in Virginia came up with an idea to teach his 10-year-old son a lesson after the son was kicked off the school bus for bullying other children. Some people are now accusing the father of bullying himself. You decide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was being a little bully, which I do not tolerate, cannot stand. And therefore, he has to now run the school. We're right about 1 mile from the school. Ironically, since he's been running to school this week, his behavior has been much better.

This right here is just old-school simple parenting. This ain't killing nobody. This is a healthy way for a child to be punished, because it's exercise. Teach your child a lesson. You don't have to kill them. You don't always have to beat them. But sometimes it sucks for them, and that's what teaches them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: What did you say?

WILLIAMS: The father has gone some pushback for this on the Internet, but his son apparently thinks the three-day punishment was fair.

What do you think, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: You know, I don't mind this this. I mean, it's a little -- it's like it's a little old-school. Right? But sometimes old-school works. It's not corporal punishment. It's not hitting a child. It is talking to a child, explaining what you did wrong and then having a positive impact, which is having the child run, be healthy, and get exercise. So I understand, you know, where the father is coming from. He's trying to engage in creative parenting.

And I'm very curious to do a follow-up on this to see if there was a modification in the child's behavior.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: If there was any more incidents on the bus. And maybe other people will learn from it, because the story was out there. And his classmates and other people on the bus will be like, "Whoa, I'll think twice about misbehaving on the bus, because I don't want to run a mile to school." Right? Gives other parents ideas. Once the word is out, it's out.

WILLIAMS: So Jesse, he was climbing over seats in the bus and bothering other kids, bullying other kids, even by his own admission. What do you think?

WATTERS: I've never done that. I've never bullied. I've always been bullied, you know, because of my looks and my charm and my quick wit. So I hate this kid, and I think he deserved it. You know?

Listen, parents can't bully their children either.

GUILFOYLE: "I hate this kid?"

WATTERS: Parents --

GUILFOYLE: Who says that?

WATTERS: -- can't bully their children. They're just -- they're punishing their children. You can't be a bully as a father. I mean, that's child rearing when you make your kid do something like that. I think it's overblown.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, wait.

GUILFOYLE: What are you saying? You're just like a ping-pong.

WILLIAMS: So it's OK with you?

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I get it.

GUILFOYLE: In Jesse speak, that's "thumbs up" in Watters' world.

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: That took me a second, but I got it.

Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: I think let the parents decide. The other thing is also sometimes in these videos the parents get pushback, because they put the child's face on there, and they're humiliating them. And that wasn't the case with this on. You don't get to -- get to see the humiliation on the face. And I bet he does think twice about bullying in the future.

WILLIAMS: So Greg, you know, I mean, the bullying by this kid was pretty dramatic. He was, as I said, climbing over seats, kicking another kid in the groin --

WATTERS: Ooh.

WILLIAMS: -- and dragging another child down the aisle of the bus. But now, is this a form of parental bullying to have your child run?

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, without endorsing the punishment, it's never a bad thing for the parent to discipline bad behavior. I'd rather have the parents do it than the state do it.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: And I wish we had more parents that would pay attention, or intact families.

But the problem with this story is why publicize it?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: I feel like it's one thing to do a punishment. But then you get on and now it's gone viral, which I hate saying. And then we do it as a segment. It's like that makes it kind of -- that pollutes this idea.

I really think that kids -- we tell kids not to bully, but we should also teach kids how to fight bullying. And with a -- with broken families, kids aren't learning how to fight bullies. And there's a very specific ways to do that, but they don't know.

WILLIAMS: Well, go ahead. What is it?

WATTERS: Punch them in the face.

GUTFELD: No, but -- no, one of the things is that --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness.

GUTFELD: -- you resist submissive noises and actions, which -- which you learn from parents. Parents teach you that, how not to be submissive. And bullies can spot a submissive person like that.

WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you, Greg.

GUTFELD: You're welcome.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GUILFOYLE: Whew, no easy day. All right. It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Jesse.

WATTERS: OK. So David Beckham is launching a male grooming brand, something with cosmetics for guys. It's called House 99.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BECKHAM, SOCCER STAR PLAYER: House 99 was created to support men. When you take care of yourself, you look good. And when you look good, you feel good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: OK. So the only reason I'm really doing this is because I'm appearing on MacCallum's show tonight, "The Story," to talk about it. I don't know why she booked me to talk about male grooming. I feel like I'm considered, like, a metrosexual at FOX News for some reason.

PERINO: Because you dry your hair.

WATTERS: But I just consider myself to have good range. You know, I can talk about the FISA abuse, and I can talk about male grooming.

GUTFELD: There you go.

WATTERS: But I mean, it's like pomades and moisturizer --

GUILFOYLE: All right let's stop complimenting you.

Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh. As you recall, Oprah Winfrey said the only way she'd run for president is if she got a sign from God himself. Well, guess what happened last night? Oprah was on the Stephen Colbert show, and God himself seemed to appear with a message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear thou seekest a sign? Well, is this clear enough?

(POINTS TO GRAPHIC READING "RUN!")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Well, by the way, God had a request for Oprah. He wants her to put the Bible in her book club.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, shouldn't it be? Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. My podcast, which you can get at FOXNewsPodcast.com, very important one. It's about -- I call it the other side of the opioid controversy. I have John Heubusch, a great guy. He's the executive director of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation, and he's a cancer survivor. And he's -- I ended up talking to him at length about why opioids are important to the patients. It's something nobody is talking about in the opioid epidemic. They're focusing on the illegality, and we need to remember that there are people that need these drugs. So please check that out.

PERINO: I'll go fast. I just want to do a tribute to Samuel George. He was a friend of mine from Bluffton, South Carolina. He was born in 1938, and he died on March 5, just a couple days ago.

He was a good friend of mine from South Carolina who had two daughters. There you have Renee and Courtney -- I'm sorry, Lila. And they have -- his wonderful wife is Ida. And I also am very fond of his grandchildren, Sam and Kate. Amazing people. And we -- we celebrate his life, and we will miss you much, Sam.

GUILFOYLE: All right. God bless him and his family. Dana, thank you so much.

And now it's time for, yes, "Kimberly's Food Court". Thank you so much. So I have some interesting cereal trivia. And the little one over there is eating it. So here's the bottom line: Honey Nut Cheerios is No. 1. It's also No. 1 in my heart. Special K coming in ten. So there we go.

We've been enjoying some of this. But today is National Cereal Day, which is why we're enjoying this, Jesse and I together, and no one else.

PERINO: I love Honey Nut Cheerios. Those are good.

WILLIAMS: Who doesn't?

PERINO: Cereal is the best.

GUILFOYLE: They're fantastic.

GUTFELD: So nice to see you two having breakfast.

GUILFOYLE: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." There he is, the man himself. "Special Report" up next with Bill Hemmer tonight.

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