This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," February 21, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Sean, thanks so much. It was a great show from CPAC. I will be there on Friday night, Friday morning I guess I'm speaking right before the president. It is great to be here. Good evening from Washington. I'm Laura Ingraham and this is THE INGRAHAM ANGLE.
What a show we have for you tonight from politics to prayer. And of course, just as Sean did, we are remembering Reverend Billy Graham after his passing today. Marveling at this unbelievable legacy with some of the nation's top religious leaders. Pastor Rick Warren, Dr. Pat Robertson and Graham's grandson will all be here.
Plus, we are going to tell you why a lesbian couple is blaming Donald Trump for preventing them from fostering a refugee child.
And speaking of the president, he's practically pleading with the attorney general to investigate the Obama administration. So, Jeff Sessions job on the line?
But first, guns, God and the grace to listen. That's the focus of tonight's ANGLE.
High school students, parents, brothers, sisters, raw emotion, suffering, sacrifice, bravery, heartache, evil, sorrow, anger, 17 dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The NRA is murdering you, our family and our friends are being murdered by the NRA right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more placing nonsensical politics above our lives. No more accepting donations from the NRA who seem to care more about their right to own the gun than the lives of American children. When did politics and money from the NRA become more important than our lives? Our message is simple, and it's never again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Well, people want quick solutions. They want action. They also want answers as to how a 19-year-old with a serious mental illness can slip through the cracks. How did the FBI not follow up on obvious red flags? How the shooter had access to a weapon despite his obvious mental health issues?
It's all infuriating and beyond upsetting. And at the White House today, the president brought parents and students and teachers together who were grieving from Parkland and from other terrible tragedies right here also in D.C. He let everyone have their say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was lucky enough to come home from school, unlike some of my other classmates and teachers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The solution is not going to be a singular thing.
It's going to be multifaceted and it's going to be created by a collection of different people working together and we all have to realize that we all have our opinions and together we are going to be able to work towards a solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Well said. The conversation now has turned to banning AR-15- style weapons. Guns that have been called assault weapons or weapons of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't understand why I could still go in a store and buy a weapon of war, an AR. I was reading today that a person, 20 years old, walked into a store and bought an AR-15 in 5 minutes with an expired I.D. How was it that easy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Many of you remember the last time we had an assault weapons ban it was from 1994 to 2004. The study of the ban that was done by the National Institute of Justice concluded that the ban produced no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence.
It went on to note that assault weapons were rarely used in gun crimes, even before the ban. Look, there are close to 15 million AR-15 style rifles in the United States today. It's one of the top-selling style of weapons in the country.
And it may be hard to believe, especially after last week, these guns are actually rarely used to commit violent crimes. According to the FBI, rifles of all kinds, not just the AR, semi auto types, accounted for just 3 percent of firearms homicides in 2016 while handguns accounted for 65 percent.
Contrary to what you hear in the media, handguns are also still by far the weapon of choice for mass shooters depending on the definition, it's when three or four or more a people are killed.
Even left-wing media outlets, you see the graphic there from things like Mother Jones -- from 1982 through 2,012 found that 66 percent of the weapons were handguns while just 14 percent would qualify as assault weapons according to the definition used by gun-control advocates.
Now writing in 'Reason' magazine, Jacob Solomon affirms that banning assault weapons will simply not stop mass killings, writing, 'Politicians, activists and journalists who have decided to blame mass shootings on assault weapons either do not acknowledge these facts or wave them away.
It is clearly possible to carry out attacks similar to last week's without using assault weapons. Nine of the mass shootings with the 20 highest death tolls in both handguns or long guns that are not covered by the Feinstein bill.
That includes the third deadliest mass shooting, which killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007, as well as two other attacks that killed 17 or more people.'
GQ magazine, not exactly a conservative outlet addressed the same issue a few years ago and it agreed noting that 'Even the Democratic staffers who wrote the now-expired 1994 federal assault weapon ban knew it was a largely symbolic policy.'
Perhaps the most poignant words today came from a father, Andrew Pollock, who buried his daughter, Meadow, just a few days ago. Flanked by his sons, his rage, and his frustration was evident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't make sense, fix it. Should have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it! And I'm pissed, because my daughter I'm not going to see again! She's not here. She's not here. We all work together to come up with the right idea, school safety. It's not about gun laws right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: The focus should be on school security. The soft targets that are so vulnerable today. Arming staff who are well-trained, getting authorities on the state, local and federal level to see the obvious warning signs and act on them.
And this obvious fact that America has become a society of strangers, distant through social media. All those anonymous insults and condemnations are often unduly harsh and disconnected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must create a culture of connectedness. We must create a culture in which our classmates become our friends. Every single one of these school shootings have been from young men who are disconnected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Let's not discount this fact, that while schools obsess about diversity, sometimes that only breeds tribalism. And social media, as I mentioned, creates not a community, but a forced distance, a sense of longing, even envy.
So, maybe it's time to listen to what Steve Scalise last week when I spoke to him just hours after the shooting in Parkland. Prayer works, he said.
Getting back to the basics, common sense, family, friendships and belief that God loves us all no matter what we are going through.
Think about that student Peter Wang and what he showed us. What he sacrificed himself. He was only 15 years old, but he helped save numerous fellow students and teachers by first ushering them to safety.
His training already kicked in. Amidst all the cries for change and legislation, his example is the one I hope more of us emulate. The president did a really good thing today. But as we seek to learn from these horrific tragedies and fix what we can, emotion cannot and should not ever override our Constitution.
We must respect the rights that our Creator gave us, yes, the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms, and also our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those 17 students and teachers who are no longer with us, they don't have either of those rights, not the Second Amendment and not life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And that's THE ANGLE.
Joining us now for reaction is a student from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, Brandon Minoff. Brandon, thank you for joining us. I know this has been just beyond horrific. A week for students to recover from what they endured. Bury their friends, try to emphasize and try to learn something.
How are you doing a week after this? You've seen a lot of your fellow students react, a lot of them are very angry, and rightly so. Your thoughts?
BRANDON MINOFF, MARJORY STONEMAN DOUGLAS HS STUDENT: We are getting through it. It's been pretty -- I wouldn't say good, but I've been getting through it. Had some rocky moments, but I'm managing.
INGRAHAM: Brandon, you made a reference yesterday, the day before to what the media had been doing to push an agenda throughout this tragedy. I'm going to play a series of media comments about what happened and get your reaction on the other side. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, CNN: This is a new start with kind of a new group of activists who might have some impact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, CNN: We have a new greatest generation, the strength, the power, the emotion, the take action attitude of those students.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC: It's a youth movement. This time it's going to be different. At other times we say lawmakers say too soon, we can't talk about it but because of social media these students have said don't speak for me, I want to talk about it, I want to go to Washington, I want to go to Tallahassee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Brandon, your reaction to that?
MINOFF: I definitely think is a youth movement, but I feel like not all the youth is being listened to. I feel like the conservative side of it is being ignored, it's just pushing gun control.
INGRAHAM: Did you happen to see Andrew Pollock today, who spoke about his daughter, Cheyenne who died, and his three sons were standing with him at the White House. He basically said there's a time -- you will have a conversation, but right now, we have to make sure the schools are equipped to handle these types of attacks.
You could tell he was really annoyed, it seemed, with what he was hearing about let's go after the guns, whatever they say the gun of choice is. He found not to be an unhelpful part of the conversation and all day my producers and I were wondering, are there any students out there who maybe think focusing on that issue almost exclusively is the wrong approach and your answer to that would be?
MINOFF: It's definitely the wrong time to be speaking about it. It's been a week, we are still mourning the loss of our loved ones and they are just still talking about what guns to outlaw an outline guns, the kind of laws to create. Seventeen people just died at the hands of a human. Humans control guns.
INGRAHAM: Brandon, the assistant football coach died and another brave act of selflessness and self-sacrifice. I know you're on the football team.
How is the team doing given what you guys and have individuals have suffered, the friendship you've had with the coach, how are you doing?
MINOFF: People are managing. It's a sad situation to know that he was gone. He was a great man, great leader. Always enjoyable to be around and talk to, cracking jokes, helping everybody out. Sad to know that he's gone and won't be able to use his mentorship anymore.
INGRAHAM: How do you think school will be when you return to campus, I guess next week after there will be a week of more I guess protests in Tallahassee? I think we have some of the audio of what happened today with some of your fellow students. I guess quite a few, hundreds showed up in Tallahassee chanting.
They are going to vote -- vote various legislators out who don't vote for a particular band. It got pretty heated. They were screaming and very, very upset, but I didn't hear a lot of diversity of thought. I heard mostly one side.
MINOFF: It doesn't seem like they're looking to hear from the other side. Two sides to every story, but they only want to hear one.
INGRAHAM: What would you say the makeup of the student body is politically, is it pretty diverse or is it split down the middle, or could you even tell?
MINOFF: I personally feel it's diverse. I have friends who are both sides of the situation. It's in a very diverse area, two different cities, close to another county, definitely diverse.
INGRAHAM: A student at your school said the following about the situation. Sorry about that, it's a full screen. He said, 'We can have people walking around with automatic weapons. They are made for mass murder.' Obviously automatic weapons have been banned for almost a hundred years ago.
The AR-15 is not an automatic weapon, but if you are not familiar with guns or you don't know -- that's what kind of people think and believed, and I feel bad for a lot of these kids because -- I didn't know anything about this when I was 15 and 16-years-old. I just didn't know.
MINOFF: I feel like they are uninformed and they're just following along with the popular opinion. They clearly don't know what they're talking about.
INGRAHAM: Brandon, we wish you the best and thank you for having the courage to speak out at a time where it seems that the diversity of thought isn't all that well showcased. We really appreciate your time tonight, thank you so much and God bless you and the students at Douglas High.
Thanks so much.
MINOFF: Thank you.
INGRAHAM: We are going to turn away from politics for the moment because up next, we have an unbelievable panel. Pat Robertson, Rick Warren will join me to discuss the enormous legacy of the late Billy Graham. Also, his grandson will be with us.
And we will tell you why it's almost impossible to estimate just how big his influence really was. One of the largest figures of the last hundred years in religion worldwide. Stay there.
INGRAHAM: Reverend Billy Graham may have been the most successful Christian evangelist since St. Paul. It's difficult to gauge the enormity, the impact made by the man who died today at age 99.
In 2007, Graham's organization estimated they have preached the gospel to more than 215 million people in more than 185 countries and territories over 60 years. That doesn't include the hundreds of millions more he reached through television, video and film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY GRAHAM: Religion without a personal encounter with Jesus Christ will not save the soul, and it will not bring the peace that your soul longs for!
I know that God has sent me out at a warrior. The five continents to preach the gospel and I must continue until he gets the signal that I am to stop.
If you remember nothing that I am to say tonight except one thing that I want you to remember, God loves you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Joining us now to discuss Graham's legacy is an absolute all- star panel of religious leaders. In Lake Forest, California, Pastor Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church. In Virginia Beach, Dr. Pat Robertson from the Christian Broadcasting Network. And in Fort Myers, Florida, Tullian Tchividjian, grandson of Reverend Graham.
Gentlemen, it's great to see all of you on this sad night, but wonderful night to reflect an amazing man. Rick Warren, I would like to start with you because I know that Reverend Graham was a mentor to you. You've known him for years. Tell us about him, the man, and the influence on you personally.
PASTOR RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: As you said, Billy Graham is the most influential Christian of the 20th Century. Nobody comes close to speaking in history to 200 million people face-to-face and only Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa would be as widely known around the world as Billy was.
Growing up in a Baptist home, Billy Graham was our pope and I read my first Billy Graham book, 'Peace with God, ' I think when I was in the sixth grade.
At 17, I heard him for the first time and was thrilled at the Oakland crusade. And at 20, I met him person-to-person at the L.A. crusade and began a 20 year -- excuse me, a 40-year relationship where he mentored me over the last 40 years.
INGRAHAM: Did he get you through the good times and the bad? Did you seek counsel from him, Reverend Warren, when you needed it most?
WARREN: You know, one of the greatest things about Billy that people don't know is that he was an encourager to the next generation. I've actually tried to learn from him on that. A lot of stuff that he taught me I've done with the next generation myself and one of them was he provided platforms for younger people.
I remember when I was in high school -- nope, college, I wrote my first book on how to study the Bible methods. I wasn't a very confident writer at all, but Billy Graham believed in me and somehow, he got a copy of a book that I had self-published.
He called me in the mid-'80s and said I'm bringing 13,000 evangelists to Amsterdam for ten days of training and I want you to come and train them and teach them how to study the bible. I'm in my 20s.
WARREN: He says I bought a copy of your book in 17 languages. I want you to come teach them. That someone who believed in young people and he has helped me ever since, coaching through doing the inauguration prayer for President Bush and then for President Obama, the advice he gave me behind the scenes was invaluable.
INGRAHAM: Reverend Robertson, I need to hear from you on this because you have been friends with Reverend Graham for many decades. He spoke so highly of you over the years and he said -- this is back in 2002, he talked about death, something we all face, and I want to play it for you, let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: I remember one night in the hospital, two nights in the hospital, I thought I was dying. My whole life came before me. I said, Lord, I am a sinner. I still need Your forgiveness. I still need to cross. And I asked the Lord to give me peace in my heart, and he did, a wonderful piece that hasn't left me until this day. That has been nearly two years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: Reverend Robertson, your comment on that? He emanated that sense of peace and irresolute clarity.
PAT ROBERTSON, THE CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: You know, one of the things that was so striking about Billy Graham. I was ahead of the college follow-up at his New York crusade in '57, so we go back a long time. He is a man who is so humble. That statement was so humble. I need God's forgiveness. He always talked about the cross.
He never took it for himself. He was the friend of presidents, one after the other. He led people by the hundreds of thousands. He was a claimed man of the year time and time again, always humility. Always I've got to seek the cross of Jesus. He always pointed people to Jesus and the way for himself.
That's the thing that struck to me. I was with him at the fall of the Berlin wall. He came to dedicate this building I'm in right now. He's a dear, dear friend for many years, but always humble. Never, ever did he take any heirs to himself that he was some kind of a hot shot.
He was. He was the preeminent evangelical in the world. Fifty million evangelicals in the world, he was number one. Everybody looked to him, everybody admired him and if we wanted to get something done, let's get Billy to head it up and things would get done.
INGRAHAM: Julian, your grandfather, you said that you didn't really realize until you are a little bit older just how important he was because of what Rick and Pat just said, his deep sense of humility, which was so attractive. Humility is powerful. I thought it was so powerful in him.
TULLIAN TCHIVIDJIAN, GRANDSON OF REVEREND BILLY GRAHAM: It was. And I think is one of his grandsons, we got to see perspective, we got to see him in ways that nobody else got to see him. And I can tell you that the humility that the public saw we saw in private. He is genuinely the most humble person I have ever met in my life.
I remember asking him one time, Daddy Bill, that's what we called him, I said Daddy Bill, how in the world have you remain so humble in light of all of your accomplishments and in light of all of the adulation and praise that you receive any looked at me kind of puzzled.
He didn't like the fact that he even said he was humble, because he did not think he was humble at all. But he said it's hard to be proud when you begin each day with God. When you begin each day with God, you realized that God is big, and I am small. God is God and I am not.
So, I think it was, even for us family members, it was really his humility that left the deepest impression on all of us, but it was also his message.
I think one of the things that separates him from so many different religious leaders, even Christian leaders, is the idea that he preached so passionately the idea that the essence, the foundation of Christianity is not what we do for God, it's what God in Christ has done for us.
And I think that is a huge, huge thing to say, but it was all about Christ finished work on our behalf that we don't have to add what God has already done for us, that God has already granted us His approval in His acceptance and His love because of what Jesus has done for us.
The man of course speaks volumes, his humility, his faithfulness, his devotion. He was a family man. He was keenly devoted to his family, but then his message really, his message --
INGRAHAM: Tullian, I have kind of an odd question, was he funny? I know Pat will know this, but that he had a sense of humor? He seems like most of the time so serious and black and white. I love that. Was he funny? Did he goof around?
TCHIVIDJIAN: Well, I think the funniest part about Daddy Bill is that he didn't realize he was funny. That was the funny thing. I think we spent most of our time laughing at him rather than laughing with him because -- he was sort of unconsciously humorous, but he had a remarkable sense of humor.
And here's one other thing too. He took God very seriously, but he never, ever took himself too seriously, and I think that gave him a humanness that was very, very relatable to all of us.
INGRAHAM: Rick, on today's world, it's a broken world, it's always been broken, but lately we really seem more than I remember to be at each other's throats. It's hard to have civil conversations of people about politics. People take things out of context. People who are friends are not talking because of politics. What would Reverend Graham say to that, because he stayed away from politics. He was friends with everybody. But what would he say about the tone and the rancor today especially?
PASTOR RICK WARREN, AUTHOR, "THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE": One of the hallmarks of Billy was not just the humility that Tullian and Pat mentioned, it was his integrity also. It was spotless after 60 years. And third would be he was a uniter. He was a builder, a bridge builder.
People forget that in the '50s and the '60s, Billy Graham insisted that all of his campaigns and crusades in the south be integrated. And for many of those southern cities, they were the first publicly integrated events in those cities when Billy Graham came to town, and he said I'm not coming unless they are integrated.
Not only were they integrated ethnically and skin color, but there were also integrated with all of the different traditions of Christianity. He said everybody's got to be at the table, and he put Catholics and Calvinists on the stage, and he put Protestants and Pentecostals, and he put charismatics and evangelicals and fundamentals and they were all there.
And some people got mad at that, but he said I'm not coming unless there is unity.
And of course in politics one of the things he taught me was that you've got to shepherd everybody. You've got friends who are Republicans, friends who are Democrats, you pastor of them all. You don't get co-opted by any particular partisan group because he has to be above the fray. And that's why he did, for instance, pray and counsel and share with --
INGRAHAM: We are out of time unfortunately.
INGRAHAM: We could do an hour on this. I want to have Pat and Rick and Tullian back on radio I hope as soon as possible to discuss this legacy.
We could do an hour on it. Thank you, gentlemen, so much.
And back in the world of politics, President Trump unloaded on one of the cabinet members in a tweet today. What was that all about? And what could that mean for former Obama administration officials after this.
INGRAHAM: President Trump's frustration with the Russia investigation and Attorney General Jeff Sessions seems to be boiling over. Trump tweeted today 'Question -- if all the Russian meddling took place during the Obama administration right after January 20th, why aren't they the subject of the investigation? Why didn't Obama do something about the meddling? Why aren't Dem crimes under investigation? Ask Jeff Sessions!'
Some good questions. Provocative. Here's another one. Are Sessions' days numbered? Let's asked our guest. Here in the studio with me, attorney Cameron Smith who served as counsel to Senator Sessions on the Judiciary Committee, and also joining us from northern California is Republican attorney John Jordan. Gentlemen, great to see you. Cameron, you worked with Senator Sessions. He's a hero to conservatives. The president just can't -- he's like a dog with a bone. He cannot drop, he cannot drop the fact that Jeff Sessions recused himself initially from this case. I don't think he needed to recuse himself either, but nevertheless where is this going?
CAMERON SMITH, FORMER COUNSEL TO SENATOR JEFF SESSIONS: The question is why does he keep doing this? Why does he keep eroding support for the Department of Justice? We need the president to restore our confidence.
We've been through this. We want a Department of Justice that enforces the law. But when he keeps doing this and undermines our confidence there. If he doesn't have confidence in Jeff Sessions to do the job, to root out any corruption in the Department of Justice, he should fire him.
INGRAHAM: Do you think he will fire him?
SMITH: I don't think he will. If we look back to the campaign, he needed Jeff Sessions. The conservative bona fides are right there. And if he doesn't get Sessions' endorsement, he can't turn and shred the primary field. Because Sessions endorsed him and people said he must be conservative if Sessions endorses him.
INGRAHAM: That's why Sessions got his pick of cabinet positions. Jeff, he wanted to be attorney general and he got it because he was the first senator who came out and endorsed him. He had to get it because he was the man back in Mobile, Alabama, that first rally.
SMITH: And that's his background. He's a prosecutor, he wants to enforce the law. That's what he wants to do as attorney general.
INGRAHAM: Rod Rosenstein was a disaster pick, should never have picked them. He was a man who does not have intestinal fortitude to take the heat. When the heat got turned on, Rod, he said we have to point a special counsel, running with his hair on fire. That's not the man you want in the job. You want a man who is tough, who is fair but tough, and also has the administration's back. You don't have to be a partisan, but you do have to be tough. Rosenstein was a mistake, that's my personal opinion.
John, I want to hear from you. I love Jeff Sessions, he's been my friend for many years. I could've put them in a bunch of different positions but attorney general seemed like a really good choice for him. He's been fabulous on immigration, MS-13, a host of issues. He's been fantastic, but the president is just annoyed. And what about that point Cameron made? Do we need the confidence in the Justice Department undermined in the midst of this investigation?
JOHN JORDAN, REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY: First of all, nobody is disputing that Attorney General Sessions is a good man. But history may well prove that in this moment where the rule of law is at stake and the Justice Department's ability to apply it evenhandedly is in question that he may in fact be a small man in a big moment of history, however good a man he may be. If ever there was a time given all of the Steele dossier facts that are coming out, at least at a minimum the appearance of wrongdoing in the DOJ, this is a situation which cries out for which the special counsel statute was designed for. It requires this. The OIG of the Justice Department, that's the swamp thing guarding the swamp things. That's too weak a broth for what's really --
INGRAHAM: We don't know. The inspector general is going to issue his report in the spring. The problem with that, and both of you can speak to this, is that the inspector general, he doesn't have any authority beyond issuing a report, correct? So he might surprise everyone and say this one did this, this one was a disaster, why did we do this, but then what? Then what happens? Cameron, you can weigh in.
SMITH: Do we have confidence in the attorney general or not? This is the question. If you don't have confidence in the attorney general to manage the Department of Justice you need to find someone who will do it.
INGRAHAM: Do you think is doing a good job?
SMITH: I do. I think he is making decisions that are based on the law. He's looking at the facts, he's looking at the law, he's applying it and saying do we prosecute are not? Sometimes that isn't a political answer you want. It might be the right legal one.
INGRAHAM: John, before we let you go, really quick, on the Uranium One issue, he is investigating it, which is a good thing. So they are going back and looking at that fact pattern, what happened, corruption, the payoffs, racketeering, whether some funny business was going on there.
That is a positive sign, yes?
JORDAN: It's being looked at, but in a pretty milquetoast way. They apparently have some field agents running around Little Rock looking at the Clinton Foundation but it's not front and center. This really requires a special prosecutor, especially given the integrity questions that have really come to life at the DOJ.
INGRAHAM: The DOJ, some people have to move on from inside the DOJ, Jeff Sessions notwithstanding. Guys, great segment.
And up next, a church and state twist. Both are being targeted in a lawsuit. We will tell you why a lesbian couple is suing both the Trump administration and a Catholic organization. Stay here.
INGRAHAM: A lesbian couple is suing the Trump administration and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops after they were denied the opportunity to become foster parents to an unaccompanied refugee child. The women claimed they were unlawfully turned down for religious reasons because the Texas program takes federal money.
Joining us now from New York to discuss the situation is from the Catholic League, of course, President Bill Donohue from the Catholic League. Bill, what's going on in this case because this couple says they were told basically they are not -- there coupledom is not mirroring that of the holy family, which is what the Catholic organization told them.
BILL DONOHUE, CATHOLIC LEAGUE PRESIDENT: There was one allegation, one woman denied that. Let's say it is, who cares. This is a pattern all across the country. ACLU suing Catholic hospitals to make them perform abortions. You have gay couples trying to crash Catholic institutions, foster care, or whatever it is. They've lost every single time.
In the case of this case in Texas, a law was passed last year protecting the right of faith-based initiatives to exercise their doctrinal prerogatives. And that would mean the Catholic agencies which do not believe in same-sex marriages do not have to allow a lesbian couple to have their care.
And at the federal level we have faith-based institutions for decades. It's just as long as you don't involve yourself in inherently religious activities, such as forcing the kids to go to mass and prayer services, things that would make some people nervous, people have a phobia about religion, then you are OK. So they know they are going to lose. It's a matter of bullying and harassment if you want to know the truth.
INGRAHAM: So presumably this couple, if they wanted to foster a child, there's probably no shortage of children in the United States, or certainly in Texas I would imagine that they could probably find that they would be welcome to foster these children. So your point is that they are going to these various Catholic organizations --
DONOHUE: They are shopping them. The ACLU in particular is doing this. These are gay activists. They try to act as if they are not. They are gay activists. They are trying to shove their secular values down our throat.
It's when the church gets too aggressive, we say what about church and state? It works the other way more often than not. When the state is encroaching on a religious institution, which is why we have these religious liberty protection laws all over the states. It's precisely because of secular militants trying to shove their way in and to basically neuter Catholic institutions. Once you take out the Catholicity of a Catholic institution, it's now secular. They can go to other religions which are OK with this, they can go to secular and public institutions.
INGRAHAM: The Lutherans do a lot.
DONOHUE: I'm sure the Unitarians would love them.
INGRAHAM: The Lutherans do a lot of resettlement as well. They get a big federal grant. That's also an issue.
In Massachusetts, they basically did away with Catholic adoptions, correct? And in other states, Catholic adoption agencies are basically shut down because of these lawsuits, correct?
DONOHUE: It varies by state and some states the Catholics have been willing to capitulate. This is not a settled issue, but if anything the law is on our side, particularly with the states that they have those protections there.
But we've known about this for a long time. Why is it that Catholic hostile continue not to perform abortions? Why is it that adoption agencies continue to insist on Catholic doctrines without a problem? It's because there's no violation of federal or state law. What you have here is the intent is to intimidate, to bully, to get them to capitulate, and so if you get some weak-kneed Catholics like you do in Massachusetts, which is not exactly known for their strong Catholic opinions.
INGRAHAM: We are going to hear it from those Catholics in Massachusetts now.
DONOHUE: That's good. I would like to hear from them too.
INGRAHAM: Thanks so much, Bill.
By the way, wait until you hear Nancy Pelosi's suggestion for an alternative to the border wall. Nancy is on the case and my response is next.
INGRAHAM: You might have missed this, but in an interview broadcast live on Facebook yesterday Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader, offered a solution to the border crisis. It kind of took my breath away. Here's her alternative to building a wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Let's talk about where a more serious structure might be necessary where fencing will do, or mowing the grass so people can't be smuggled through the grass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: She didn't say mowing the grass. What does she think the border region looks like? These are not the grasslands of sub-Saharan Africa with lions lurking about. That's just not the way it looks. Oh, my goodness.
I wish cutting the grass would reduce illegal immigration because I'm telling you this, I would even buy border enforcement some weed whackers myself, maybe a push mower or two, the old-fashioned types. And Nancy had a message for all you Trump voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Not some commitment to a promise that we're going to build a wall in Mexico is going to pay for it. That is never going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: She so definitive and so dogmatic. Pardon me. I remain a little skeptical of Nancy's emphatic predictions. She says the tax bill would be Armageddon. What did she say back in May of 2016 about the election?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Donald Trump is not going to be president of the United States. Take it to the bank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRAHAM: That bank, is that FDIC insured? You would be broke. Nancy was wrong about Trump, she is wrong about the wall. It will get built, it will be significant. I don't know if Mexico is going to pay for it.
But as is her custom, she misreads the will of the people. They want it done. So if you think a wall that is not necessary -- a well-clipped lawn will do the job, I have an idea. Replace your security, Nancy, with a lawn service, because what's good for the people should be good for their representatives. How's that? We'll be right back.
INGRAHAM: Some final thoughts from Billy Graham back in 2005.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY GRAHAM: The Bible teaches that now is the accepted time, today is the day of salvation. The Bible teaches don't put it off because you can harden your heart. You may never have another moment like this in your whole life. There may never be a thing like this in New York again. You come now. Now is the time. We're going to wait another moment or two on you.
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