This is a rush transcript from "The Story," February 5, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: So, breaking tonight on "The Story," growing evidence suggest that there was a coordinated effort between the Clinton campaign and the Obama White House to use arms of the government to impact the 2016 election. Good evening, everybody, I'm Martha MacCallum. We're going to layout this web of this growing story by the day, and get the latest on another element that has been roped in. You see President Obama there and the State Department is of particular interest here. We'll explain it all. So now, you've got Democrats firing back with their own memo to answer the Devin Nunes-Trey Gowdy memo, and that is now moving forward tonight in the House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: We also want to make sure that any redactions that are fully made explained to our committee by the FBI or Department of Justice. And likewise, by the White House, we want to make sure that the White House doesn't redact our memo for political purposes, and obviously that's a deep concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: All the while, Robert Mueller's special counsel team continues to investigate in search of a crime or a national security implication. Here with brand new information tonight, Fox News chief national correspondent, Ed Henry, joining us in New York.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. We pick up new information suggesting there was basically a second dossier put together by that former British spy Christopher Steele with dirt on then-Candidate Donald Trump. What could make it explosive is that an unnamed foreign source gave the information to an associate of Bill and Hillary Clinton who then passed it on to someone at the Obama State Department. Byron York reporting, in the Washington Examiner, the Congressional investigators are connecting the dots from published reports suggesting, Clinton associate, Cody Sheer was in touch with Steele during the campaign as you put together the dossiers.
An Obama State Department official, Jonathan Weiner may have been a conduit between Steele and the Obama State Department. Now, remember, Republican Chuck Grassley and Lindsey Graham sent a criminal referral to the Justice Department last month raising questions about whether Steele broke any laws, and he handled the first dossier funded by the Clinton camp and the DNC. Fox has now obtained the unclassified version of that referral, and it mentioned the second dossier, declaring: "It is troubling enough that the Clinton camp funded Mr. Steele's work but that these Clinton associates were contemporaneously feeding Mr. Steele allegations raises additional concerns about his credibility."
Victoria Nuland, a Spokeswoman at the Obama State Department, confirmed on CBS News yesterday that in July 2016, Steele passed along up to four pages of information to the State Department, where officials decided it was not in their purview, then passed it to the FBI. House Intel Chairman, Devin Nunes, now digging for more answers on whether that was the limit of the Obama State Department involvement, and he's planning to release a second memo laying out what he finds. As the president interrupted a speech on the economy in Ohio to cheer on Nunes's first memo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Oh, did we catch them in the act? They are very embarrassed. They never thought they would get caught. We caught them. We caught them. It's so much fun. Like, the great sleuth.
REP. DEVIN NUNES, R-CALIF.: What we'll do is we will follow in phase two, we will follow the facts where they lead, and when we get enough facts, we will then figure out the way to let the American people know likely and the that this was done.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
HENRY: The president also ripped Nunes' Democratic counterpart tweeting, "Little Adam Schiff, who is desperate to run for higher office is one of the biggest liars and leakers in Washington, right up there with Comey, Warner, Brennan, and Clapper! Adam leaves closed committee hearing to illegally leak confidential information. Must be stopped!" Well Schiff fired back: "Mr. President, I see you've had a busy morning of executive time. Instead of tweeting of false smears, the American people would appreciate it if you turned off the T.V. and help solve the funding crisis, protected DREAMERS or really anything else."
Well, the president meanwhile called Nunes a man of "great courage and an American hero", even as the White House denied, insist, and had no coordination, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. Another layer to all of this, here now: Fox News Senior Judicial Analyst, Judge Andrew Napolitano. Judge, good to see you tonight. You know, just to sort of go back, because this is -- we've got a web of this up on the wall, which we're going to show everybody in a moment.
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: All right.
MACCALLUM: But to go back to what Ed was reporting there, if it's outlined that a foreign source gave the information in this dossier, second dossier, to unnamed associate of Hillary and Bill Clinton. And this is all during the campaign, who then gives it to someone in the Obama State Department.
MACCALLUM: So, give this to the -- you know, just leak this information over to them who then gave the information to Steele. So, it just -- it keeps going around and around and around, and you're looking for the foundation of the where the meat is underneath it.
NAPOLITANO: At the same time this was happening, the FBI was conducting a fraudulent and deceptive investigation of Mrs. Clinton's improper handling of e-mails, or arguably espionage -- the failure to safeguard state secrets. So, the Clintons were using enormous arms to the government, State Department, Justice Department, FBI, to assure that she not be prosecuted and to attempt to assure that Donald Trump not become a president. But Steele, Chris Steele, now former MI-6, that's the British version of the CIA agent, presents a very interesting problem here. This is the issue.
This is the wording in the memo that came out last week, the Republican memo that the FBI and the DOJ fought aggressively against. And it's the following reference to Chris Steele as "a long-time FBI asset". For most people that say, all right, the FBI has all kinds of assets. Well, he's a former British intelligence agent. We have an agreement with the British government, Canadian, New Zealand, Australia, we will exchange information, we will not cherry-pick each other's agents. He apparently was cherry- picked by the FBI. If this happened, while he was an MI-6 agent, he could be prosecuted for espionage by the British government for being a British spy at the same time he was an American spy.
MACCALLUM: So, that phrase in the memo that he was a long time FBI asset. We know he was, he was doing work for them. They were interested in his work. There's still, I think, some discrepancy over whether or not they were paying him. But they also say that they released him at some point.
MACCALLUM: So, they have some kind of relationship whether it was monetary or not.
NAPOLITANO: I think they had a monetary relationship, and at some time -- at some point, they decided either it wasn't credible or we can't trust you because you have become a leaker. And leaking classified material is a line that cannot be crossed, Mr. Steele, so you're no longer with us. Now, he left MI-6 in 2009. This is a very serious stuff. If before he left MI- 6, he was an FBI asset, the Justice Department and the FBI, is which not run today by the same people that were running it then -- we're talking about Eric Holder and James Comey -- has an enormous problem on his hand. That would explain --
MACCALLUM: 2009 is a long time ago.
MACCALLUM: We're talking about the 2016 campaign.
MACCALLUM: Can you prove that there was an overlap in his MI-6 time and his FBI asset time?
NAPOLITANO: We don't know.
MACCALLUM: But you know they were upset about that line in the memo?
NAPOLITANO: Yes, and I know that Congressman Nunes intentionally used the ambiguous phrase "long time". Does that go back to 2009 or before? Or did it happen after it? I also know that explains the ferocity with which the FBI tried to prevent this from coming out.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, judge. Good to see you tonight. So, let's bring in our panel, Tammy Bruce, Washington Times Columnist and Radio Talk Show Host; Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and former Chief Speechwriter for President George W. Bush, both are Fox News Contributors; and Fox News Analyst and Former State Department Spokesperson, Marie Harf. Good to have you all with us tonight.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE SCHOLAR: Good to be with you.
TAMMY BRUCE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND COLUMNIST FOR THE WASHINGTON TIMES: Hey, there.
MACCALLUM: Marie, let me start with you because the suggestion is that this information was passed to Victoria Nuland, who you worked with at the State Department, what say you?
MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS ANALYST AND FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, Victoria Nuland, this weekend, when she talked about this said the information came to her, and she realized it wasn't State Department's business and she passed it to the FBI, and who knows what they did with it? Look, the State Department gets a lost information from a lot of people, but the only thing the State Department was worried about was, you know, this fact this we were seeing Russia interfering in our election. The intelligence community was doing an assessment at the time, but I think Victoria Nuland was pretty clear that this was the FBI's blame. And even Devin Nunes' memo that he put out made clear that the FISA application warrant was based on much more than the Steele dossier. In fact, it was renewed three times with new and different information.
MACCALLUM: But every single time that it was renewed, it was renewed with the dossier as a large part of that renewal process, Marie, every time?
HARF: Well, we'll see how large a part that's played. I mean, we don't --
MACCALLUM: But they said without it, they wouldn't have gotten it.
HARF: But I think we need to be very careful about going after the FISA court. Look, if we actually want to have a discussion about FISA and how it works? We either need to see the underlying FISA applications, which are 50, 60, 70 pages long. And we need to talk about in a bipartisan way, so I hope Donald Trump approves the release of the Democratic memo to go along with the Republican memo, so Americans can take a look and judge of themselves.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Tammy, you know, what do you make of this newest wrinkle? And it just keeps going back to this: a foreign source gave the information to an unnamed associate of Bill and Hillary Clinton who then gave the information to an unnamed official in the Obama State Department.
BRUCE: Yes, look, I think it was just a couple of week ago through a Grassley letter to the DNC that where Sydney Blumenthal's name came up, along with Mr. Sheer's name. Mr. Blumenthal known -- Sydney Blumenthal as Mr. fixer for the Clintons. So now, you've got this remarkable dynamic. A group that's not very large, where it does seem to be in this circular motion of one end feeding the other. They're almost like a snake eating itself, and they're all moving into the same direction, almost like how they used the Yahoo News story to buffer itself as well.
So, you might have two memos now, two dossiers that are actually from the same group of people, but to give something more impetus. So, this is what the American people are seeing, and also the kind of desperation you get from also -- forgive me Marie -- but from the Obama administration, when you have a history of doing things that are either against the law or against rules and regulations, whether it's, of course, IRS spying on the Tea Party, or fast and furious which is moving weapons to drug traffickers. That's still unclear about what the real intention was of that.
So, there's a variety of things or the Judge Hannan memo, when they admitted -- the Obama DOJ admitted that they had not followed his rule or his order regarding immigration practices, and he said they've effectively relying to the court throughout the process. So, you have an administration that has not certainly respected the rule of law, has moved forward with the ends justifies the means, and I think we see it here as well.
THIESSEN: I agree with Marie that they should release the Democratic memo. If the FBI has a memo that they want to come out with a rebuttal explaining their position, they should release it. But we need transparency here. The real scandal here, honestly, I think is that there's a lot of troubling stuff in the Nunes memo. But the real scandal is the FBI efforts to suppress this thing, because not withstanding with what the judge just said, there really isn't any top-secret information in that.
If they have -- that phrase wanted to be, they could've redacted that one phrase if that was something, but there's nothing, really, in here that rises to the level of top secret or even confidential information. And the law does not allow you to suppress information simply -- for anything other than national security purposes. The reason the FBI stated that they wanted to stop the release of this memo was because it contained, what they said was, material omissions of fact.
You can't use the classification laws to prevent a document from coming out simply because it has material omissions of fact or is political biased or embarrasses you. That is a violation of the Executive Order 13526, signed by Barack Obama, which says, and I quote: "In no case shall information be classified, continued to be maintained classified or failed to be declassified in order to conceal violations of law, inefficiency, administrative error, or prevent embarrassment to person, organization, or agency."
That's what the FBI did. So, we need to get to the bottom -- I'm very worried about the fact that the FBI, who's concerned about their reputation and their trust for the American people, was trying to prevent Americans from seeing this memo. We should see this memo. We should see whatever else Devin Nunes has. We should see the Democratic response.
THIESSEN: We should see everything so we can understand what's going on here.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this in terms of what Trey Gowdy said about the revelations of the FISA memo, Marie, because he says that he doesn't believe that it impacts the underlying questions of the Russia investigation. And I want to get your thought on his response to that memo, and then I'll go around the horn. Marie.
HARF: You know, I actually -- this is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Trey Gowdy in my life. But I think that he's right, and I was actually very happy to hear him and some other members of Congress, particularly, say that. In part, because I think they're trying to distance themselves from what some people think is Devin Nunes trying to undercut the Russian investigation. So, I was happy they that expressed confidence in Mueller. But this is the whole premise here -- this memo was put out in a very misleading and very, you know, anti-factual way. And that's why the FBI is objected to it. Sure, they may have some classification reason -- Marc, there may not be some classification reason, but Congress should do better, they shouldn't put out things that are misleading, they shouldn't put out things that are factually inaccurate for partisan reasons when you share in intelligence committee.
MACCALLUM: Well, I don't think Trey Gowdy was backing away from the four- page memo at all. In fact, he said, I wrote it. He called it, "my memo". So, he is not backing away from the memo.
MACCALLUM: -- questions of whether or not it's separate and apart, Marc, from the Mueller investigation?
THIESSEN: It is. Well, first, Trey Gowdy wrote it, that's what he said on this. So, he says it's separate apart than he had been the way we take his word for. So, yes, I think it is. But it shows evidence and he's a very - - everybody agrees that he is a very impartial person. He said there was a violation of the FISA process, and he's a champion of the justice system, but I hope Marie was also against Dianne Feinstein putting out her report on the CIA interrogation program, because was all some bias --
HARF: Absolutely. I absolutely was against that too, Marc. You and I agree on this.
MACCALLUM: Last bit from Tammy.
BRUCE: There's one -- in that memo, there's only person left still working in the government, and that's Rod Rosenstein. So, the issue becomes if whether or not, with all of these revelations, Mr. Rosenstein is going to be someone who is also trustworthy, or if the nature of all of this is going to have an impact on how his intentions are viewed and what his manner was in deciding for the special counsel with the attorney general's recusal, and whether or not it was wise to then choose, of course, one of the best friends of James Comey. So, this is why the American people deserve to see everything so that we have a sense of the reliability and the trustworthiness of every individual involved in this dynamic.
MACCALLUM: We're going to get some answers on that from Trey Gowdy tomorrow night. Thank you all for being here. It's good to see you tonight.
HARF: Thank you.
BRUCE: Thank you.
THIESSEN: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up, an NFL player killed and police say that the suspected drunk driver had been kicked out of the country twice already. Governor Mike Huckabee weighs in on that. Also, I lost my Super Bowl bet to Jesse Waters yesterday. So, I will, or will I? Really, will I wear the Eagles jersey, as promised, on this program tonight?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE WATERS, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": If the Eagles win, I think you should wear an Eagles jersey on the set, how about that?
MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight the Indianapolis Colts reel over the shocking and sudden death of their linebacker, Edwin Jackson. New details are coming out tonight about the man who killed him in a horrific crash on Interstate 70 in Indianapolis. The driver of the truck, Manuel Orrego- Savala was in the United States illegally. According to the reports he had actually been deported, kicked out twice, and found his way back in. Trace Gallagher live with the new details tonight. Trace, what have you got?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Martha, it was 4:00, Sunday morning, when 26-year-old, Edwin Jackson, was riding in an Uber on I-70 in Marion County, Indiana. Apparently, Jackson felt sick and asked the driver to pull over. He did, and both men got out of the car. That's when police say an F-150 truck went up onto the emergency shoulder, striking the car and the men, killing both. The collision was so violent that one of the victims was thrown into the middle of i-70 and a state trooper who discovered the wreck also struck a body. The driver of the truck fled the scene but was caught a short time later. He initially identified himself as Alex Cabrera-Gonzales, but his real name is Manuel Orrego-Savala, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was deported in both 2007 and 2009. Savala's blood alcohol level was three times the legal limit to drive. He is now being held pending charges. Here's Edwin Jackson's football coach at Westlake High School in Atlanta. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREEM REID, WESTLAKE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH: He was a common guy. You know, he didn't start at Westlake, he walked on at Georgia. He was undrafted in the NFL. So, he just had an everyday 9:00 to 5:00 type guy mentality. He was just a hard worker, and just a common man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: His Indianapolis Colts teammates were stunned by the news with the team saying "he was well-respected among all with whom he crossed pads, and he will be greatly missed in our locker room and throughout our entire organization." And along with grief, there is outrage. Indiana Republican Congressman, Todd Rokita, released a statement that reads in part: "We must do more to get these dangerous illegal immigrant criminals off of our streets, and guarantee this never happens again, by building a wall, ending sanctuary cities, and stop being illegal immigration once and for all." But immigration activists are also accusing some of politicizing the driver's immigration status when the real culprit they say is drunk driving. Though many are quick to point out that Orrego-Savala should not have been driving and driving in the U.S., because he shouldn't have been in the U.S. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely, true. That's a fact. Trace, thank you very much. Mike Huckabee, Former Governor of Arkansas and Fox News Contributor joins us this evening. Governor, I mean, these stories are so heart breaking, and it does. Trace is absolutely right. The argument goes back to: well, this isn't really about his status, this is about the fact that he was driving drunk.
MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS: No, it's really about the fact that he'd been deported twice was. It's about the fact that he was drunk. He was driving with an illegal driver's license; he didn't have a valid driver's license. All of this was unnecessary. If we had border security, he would've been deported once -- well, first of all, he would've never gotten in. But once deported, he wouldn't have been back. Now, he's twice deported and he's come back and he's killed two people. What does it take to make some of these people understand that the reason that Americans want the wall is not because we don't want people to come and share the American dream, it's we don't want people coming in and giving us the American nightmare of some dead innocent people killed by folks who shouldn't have been here in the first place?
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, I don't think that anyone who hasn't have this happen in their family -- some people could -- I mean, none of us could ever grasp what that's actually like to find out that your loved one was a victim in a heinous killing, but then to find out that the person never should've even been here, but the fallback argument as you well know, governor, is always: well, but most illegal immigrants are here because they love their families, because they, you know, want to be together, they've reunified in this country. But, that is not the point, is it?
HUCKABEE: No, it isn't. I'll tell you what, go to the funeral of Edwin Jackson and say that to his family. Let's see how that plays out. You know, the sad couple that were at the State of the Union whose daughter was murdered by an MS-13 person. It's that kind of stuff, Martha, that makes Americans furious when they hear about sanctuary cities and sanctuary states. We would like for our children to have some sanctuary in a country where their parents are paying taxes and expecting the government to keep them safe.
MACCALLUM: So, we're about to walk back up to this conversation again? Because DACA is running out March 5th, and then you've got a spending bill that needs to be done by February 8th. The president claims that he does not think that Democrats really want a deal on this. He's offered them two million DACA recipients to be able to stay in the country, which I know a lot of folks on your side of the fence are not happy about.
HUCKABEE: He gave them three times what they were even asking for. He's trying to fix something legally that Barack Obama said he couldn't do. He said it five times publicly and then he turned around and did it illegally, unconstitutionally by executive order. Why the Democrats aren't willing to take yes for an answer is beyond me, other than they're not interested in the DACA recipients. What they're interested in is to try to make a political point out of it. So, I wish the DACA kids would start recognizing -- the Democrats are not their friends. The Democrats are using them. They're being exploited just like cheap labor is being exploited.
President Trump, honestly, wants to fix it. He's given indication of that. And then, you've got John McCain coming out with a bill that says, oh, no wall, let's just do DACA. And I'm thinking, John, the reason you aren't president is because you didn't want border security. And the reason Donald Trump is president is because he pushed it. I think we've already had an offer of what John McCain has offered and put forth. People have soundly rejected it. It nearly destroyed the political careers of the so- called gang of eight. And the last thing we need is to bring up that dead horse again and try to ride it across, you know, the goal line. It's not going anywhere. Nowhere.
MACCALLUM: Governor, thank you. Good to see you tonight.
HUCKABEE: Thanks, Martha. Good to talk to you.
MACCALLUM: So, still ahead this evening. Did you look at the Dow today? A tough day on Wall Street. Down nearly 1200 points. Charlie Hurt and Charles; we've got the political ramifications of this and the financial side, coming up. Also, tonight, Jim and Evelyn Piazza lives changed forever when they lost their son, Tim, to frat house hazing. So, it is now exactly one year since that horrible day. And they say their pain is only getting worse. Tonight, they are here with a message for every student and every parent. It's too late for Tim, but it is not too late for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I'm pleased to announce that e-cycle paid out our largest bonus in company history this past Friday.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: With the tax cuts and the bonus, I will be trying to save up money to start a family.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: It means that we'll have more money in the bank. More money to make ends meet.
TRUMP: Nancy Pelosi again said that's crumbs. I think this is not a good day for Nancy Pelosi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: President Trump today in Ohio, touting the benefits of his tax plan and the successes that the economy had seen under his administration. However, as he was talking, volatility struck Wall Street in pretty big ways. Stocks took a huge dive after a tough week last week. Dow ending down nearly 1,200 points, it's the biggest point drop ever but you've got to remember where we are. It's a 4.6 percent drop. So what's the fallout politically for the president and also economically for everyone in this country. Charlie Hurt, political columnist from the Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, Charles Payne is host of Making Money with Charles Payne on the Fox Business Network. So Charlie, let me start with you because the president has -- everywhere his gone he has talked about how -- what a great impact his administration has had in the economy, so people watch his numbers over the course of last week and today, and they say, gee, now my 401-K is getting the reverse effect.
CHARLIE HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. And quite, frankly, that's probably the problem with Donald Trump going out there talking so much about the stock market specifically and talking about that run-up because if you're going to own the run-up, when you do have the correction or the fallback you've kind to have to -- you have no choice but to own that too. It's probably a much smarter bet for Donald Trump to do what he did today in Ohio. And if you like what he did in Ohio, you'll probably going to like a lot about what you see over the next year and three years because that's a much smarter way of selling the tax cuts where you get people out there, you bring people up on stage, you have all those funny exchanges where he gets people to talk about what they'll spend their money on and that's very effective. It's probably smart to stay away from the specific stock market number at any given day.
MACCALLUM: So Charles Payne, obviously, it's a big selloff. What does it mean?
CHARLES PAYNE, HOST OF MAKING MONEY WITH CHARLES PAYNE: Well, we have to put all these things in proper context, right? We had an enormous market rally. In fact, the last three months in the stock market have gone virtually straight up. So, you sort of anticipate this. And I'm sure as this is going up President Trump knew, ultimately, we get this sort of pullback, they're inevitable. But I think the one thing about him bragging about the market is it's what people use as their barometer. And it's OK for him to pullback. It's OK for him to say, hey, you know what, this is going to happen. Because, ultimately, in that same 2 or 3 year Time period as the underline economy has gone to places it hasn't been in a long Time, the market will or should rebound. So, it was a tough week -- it's been a tough week for the market. It was long overdue. The underlying fundamentals though have not been this good that I can recall for a very, very long Time. All phases of our economy are firing on all cylinders right now.
MACCALLUM: And not to get to a whiz, but some of this is program triggered selling?
MACCALLUM: So you're getting people who are saying and taking profits from the stock market run up, and then they see what's going up in the bond market and they think that their money will do well there as well as you see interest rates start rising. So, should every day investors be messing around with their holdings right now, Charles?
PAYNE: I think not. I think, you know, to your point, there was a point today when the Dow was down 1800 then it was down 1600 in a blink of an eye. That wasn't regular people calling up their brokers, right? You can do that no matter how quick this fall was. That was all programmed, computerized nonsense. Stay the course. You bet on this American economy. To this point, it's only going to get better. In fact, we had economic data out today that was amazing, absolutely amazing.
MACCALLUM: All right. Charlie and Charles in charge, thank you so much. Good to see you both. So one year after a very tragic event, the death of their son due to hazing at Penn State, Tim Piazza's parents join me once again because they're speaking out, they want you to understand the impact of Tim's death and whether or not it is changing things for real on college campuses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: There's more to do and it's all about enforcement. They need to enforce. When they see situations that aren't working, where people are hazing, where people are drinking, they need to step in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: We have a friend who's unconscious. He hasn't move. (INAUDIBLE) probably going to need an ambulance. UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. How old is he?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: He is 19.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: And was he breathing?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: He is breathing.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was there any alcohol or anything involved you know?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That 9-11 call now a-year-old placed hours after 19-year-old Penn State sophomore, Timothy Piazza, fell headfirst down the stairs after being served 18 drinks in 90 minutes in a fraternity house hazing ritual. The frat brothers sending text messages like this, he look dead, as you could see in your screen, at the end of the day, I'm accountable for it all, they said. And another one said, I don't want to go to jail for this. Tim died on February the 4th, 2017. Now in an open letter to parents nationwide, his parents write this, our amazing, caring, good-hearted, 19- year-old son, the strapping red head from Western New Jersey, known for his love of life and his desire to help those in need was a victim of violent organize fraternity hazing and brutal neglect. That is not on his death certificate, but that is what we get to live with every day. Welcome back to our program our friends, Tim's parents, Jim and Evelyn Piazza, joining me now with their attorney Thomas Kline. It's obviously very -- and I'm sure that this anniversary is very, very, very hard, and I'm sure all of it comes back to you. And I give you so much credit because I know that you're really trying to make a difference in what's going on here. Do you feel like anything is changing or the message is getting out or that schools are changing their behavior at all so far, Jim?
JIM PIZZA, FATHER OF TIMOTHY PIAZZA: Yeah, I think the message is getting out. We're hearing from people from really throughout the country who are talking to their children. We see a lot of schools that are making changes, suspending fraternities that are doing bad things, changing the rules in fraternities, so we feel good that the message is being heard. We somewhat feel upset is that were three other deaths after our son's this year and that's very disappointing for us and each one of them hurt very much.
MACCALLUM: Yeah, we have picture -- list, actually, of the other names. Matt Ellis, Max Scrubber -- Matt Ellis is Texas State. Max Scrubber, LSU, Andrew Coffee, Florida State, and I would consider that a partial list because there are other people who died due to excessive drinking at college campuses. And Thomas Kline is here as well. So one of the biggest statements that's going to be made, potentially, is when this goes to trial. And perhaps, these young men see some real ramifications for this brutal neglect that the Piazza's talked about in their letter?
THOMAS KLINE, PIAZZA'S ATTORNEY: There's no doubt about it. There's going to be a day of justice for them. That's what Jim and Eve been interested in. It's not only about punishment however, it's about deterrence. Their message is that this doesn't happen again and that can be aided by the criminal justice and the civil justice process.
MACCALLUM: So tell us where the trial -- where is it now? What can we expect next?
KLINE: We're in the preliminary stages. The case will have to wind its way through a series of hearings, but ultimately by the end of this calendar year, hopefully, certainly no later than the early part of next year, there will be a trial.
MACCALLUM: And the strongest charge is involuntary manslaughter?
KLINE: There are charges that are still pending involving involuntary manslaughter, as well aggravated assault. There are always hazing charges. There are also charges of furnishing alcohol. Combined there are many, many individual whose face many years in jail.
MACCALLUM: So Jim and Evelyn, have you -- I know that you have a foundation. What do you want to do with that foundation?
EVELYN PIAZZA, MOTHER OF TIMOTHY PIAZZA: We have dedicated some of it for high school scholarships at Tim's high school, and the bulk of it is pretty much dedicated to funding prosthetics for people who can't afford it, especially children and potentially soldiers because that's what Tim really wanted to do with his mechanic engineering degree.
MACCALLUM: That's lovely. And I hope that you have more interest in it from tonight, and we will put that information out there for everybody who wants to hear it. In terms of the families and your letter, Jim, what would you -- expand on that message for us in terms of what you're telling parents and students.
JIM PIAZZA: We want parents to have the discussion with their children when they're going off to college, when they're thinking about joining fraternity. Talk to them about what hazing is and the risks associated with it. As well as people that are already in fraternities. Encourage your children not to get involved with hazing. And if you get involved in a situation that you're not comfortable with and you see you could be putting somebody in harm, get out. Leave and then report it. Call for help. That stuff shouldn't be happening. It kills people. And we only hear about the people that die. We don't hear about the people that are affected and have post-traumatic stress syndrome and all those other things. So we're only hearing about people that died, but there're so many others that we've heard about that have lasting effects from.
MACCALLUM: From the hazing?
JIM PIAZZA: That's right.
MACCALLUM: Evelyn, what can you tell us about that?
EVELYN PIAZZA: Just that -- like we know people who -- they have a hard Time functioning now. They don't have the memory that they once had. It's ruined their whole lives.
MACCALLUM: I mean, you combine the drinking with other stuff too, you know, the abuse and the humiliation that is supposed to make you feel like you're brothers, which I've just never been able to wrap my head around. But that is sick and inhumane. And I think that must linger with some of these sensitive young men as well, Jim?
JIM PIAZZA: Yes. I think it -- it's not only drinking. We've become close with a number of other families, and we're familiar with one situation where an individual died because he drank too much water. Forced drinking of water. We know of somebody else that jumped off a bridge. There're so many other incident that people just don't hear about. Hazing is wrong, it hurts people. And the laws throughout the country really need to be stiffened and change.
MACCALLUM: Thank you all.
KLINE: Hazing is not only wrong, it is criminal.
MACCALLUM: Thank you. We're going to stay tune to your story. We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.
MACCALLUM: All right, let's get this over with. Did you see the big game last night? A hundred and three million Americans turned-in to see the Eagles win. I said it. Which was a 9-year low in ratings, by the way. So tonight, I'm making good on my promise. I'm wearing the jersey that I promised Jesse Watters that I would wear in honor of your Eagles.
WATTERS: You look great in green.
MACCALLUM: No, I don't. I look terrible in green.
WATTERS: You look great.
MACCALLUM: This is no one's good color. This is a terrible color.
WATTERS: What's with the hat though?
MACCALLUM: I cannot just wear this because then there's going to be this image out there in the world that me wearing this and people thinking I'm an Eagles fan which, of course, I'm not. So, I wore Patriots blue.
(CROSSTALK) WATTERS: I wore that last night, so that has not been wash.
MACCALLUM: Oh, even better. So, of course, my Pats have 5 Super Bowl rings.
MACCALLUM: . so I know that you're happy that you have one, which is so nice.
MACCALLUM: So nice to have one.
WATTERS: You're sounding like a little cocky.
MACCALLUM: Jesse Watters is here. Look at this.
WATTERS: Yeah, classy. You know, handling it with class as usual. I think that was in halftime too. We've got a head start on it. We're passionate. We're not trash. What is that -- I mean, that's the Ritz Carlton, too, by the way.
MACCALLUM: That was dangerous.
WATTERS: This is not good.
MACCALLUM: People could have been killed.
WATTERS: This is not good. But it's all good fun. Listen, it never happened before. There's a lot of pent-up aggression. Let them have their little fun, Martha. I think they're giving it a room to riot, remember that?
MACCALLUM: Yeah, room to riot. So some of my family members and my close friends are Eagles fans, including you, so I really do say congratulations.
WATTERS: Well, thank you very much, I appreciate that.
MACCALLUM: It was a great game.
WATTERS: Yes, it was.
MACCALLUM: I had the honor of being there, which was really incredible.
WATTERS: Did any Philly fans pour beer on you?
MACCALLUM: No. And I have to say, I hope some of them are watching, because the Philly fans that were near us were nothing like the people that you saw in that video. They were so nice.
MACCALLUM: This is true. They were really nice and giving me high-fives on our show. And they love you guys. So they were all really great. So I just want to give a shout out to them. So, here's what you said on your show earlier.
WATTERS: I'm glad you watched.
MACCALLUM: You said we got a lot of lucky calls with a little smirk.
WATTERS: Because you guys have never gotten any lucky calls, Martha, please.
MACCALLUM: No, we have. And I think there was some backlash, actually, because at the AFC championship there were all of that stuff about how the refs was cozying up to Tom, you know, give him a pat at the back.
WATTERS: We've talked about that.
MACCALLUM: And I've talked to other coaches and sport writers who say refs do that all the time. It's not a big deal. However, I think that there was -- there was such an anti-pats bias in that entire stadium. I think the NFL did not want them to win.
WATTERS: I love hearing this from you. Yeah, two close calls at the end. The Clement catch at the back of the end zone, could have gone either way. And then the -- over the goal line.
MACCALLUM: In fact, seeing things exactly like that get called the other way.
WATTERS: Exactly, but I'm glad now a catch is really a catch. We finally came to the conclusion what a catch is, and those were two great catches. And I'm sorry you lost, but it was a great game. As an Eagles fan I can say it was a great game and it's glad to bring back the Lombardi trophy to the city of brotherly love.
MACCALLUM: It's never been there before.
MACCALLUM: And I think that this seals the deal, because now I think that Brady will be back. I think if he won yesterday there was a chance that he might not have been back.
WATTERS: He's definitely coming back. And he needs to prove he can catch because he can't catch.
MACCALLUM: That was awful. What was he doing?
WATTERS: He dropped the ball.
MACCALLUM: What was he doing?
WATTERS: You see that?
MACCALLUM: That was like dirt in the wound. It's like, you know what, let's get that play. You catch it and run it to the end zone. I have no idea. I think they were trying to be a little too cute perhaps. I really do.
WATTERS: A lot of flea flickers.
MACCALLUM: And that did not go well.
WATTERS: Look at that.
WATTERS: You look uncomfortable in that jersey.
MACCALLUM: Well now I'm uncomfortable because I know that you wore it.
WATTERS: Yeah. I wore it out to about 2 AM last night at a bar, or 2 or 3 bars. So, yeah, it's got a lot of love, and I'll never washing it again. Not because you wore it, Martha, because it's good luck after the Super Bowl.
MACCALLUM: All right. OK, we're going to look at one of the ads because I didn't see the ads.
WATTERS: Me either.
MACCALLUM: You were drinking too much.
WATTERS: I didn't see the ads either. Let's take a look.
MACCALLUM: So let's watch one of them because it had this little-bit political connotation in it, and we'll get your thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Factory right here -- I thought that was pretty cool, actually.
WATTERS: I thought that was them building the wall. Is that the wall?
MACCALLUM: You got it. That's what you're supposed to think.
WATTERS: Made by American steel and American grit. I like it. Are you allowed to be political in the Super Bowl? Because they dissed that other, you know, anthem ad that was very patriotic, but I guess you can build a wall.
MACCALLUM: Clearly this year they backed off of the anti-Trump mentality in these ads. And I think they wanted everyone to take a break from it. And I'm hoping that's going to bleed into real life so that we can kind of, you know, just settle down a little bit and respect each other perspective.
WATTERS: Did you know that no Philadelphia Eagles player ever knelt during the national anthem this season?
MACCALLUM: You know I commend them for that.
WATTERS: Thank you very much.
MACCALLUM: I think that's great.
MACCALLUM: Several of them already said that they're not going to the White House. And you know what, several Pats didn't go last year.
WATTERS: It happens.
MACCALLUM: And I think that's wrong on both sides.
WATTERS: I do, too.
MACCALLUM: I think all the Pats should have shown up last year, and I think all the Eagles should show up this year. So there's time for your team to do the right thing.
WATTERS: I think there's time. But you know what, I will give them a pass.
MACCALLUM: You are?
WATTERS: I am. I am. I'm going to give them a pass.
MACCALLUM: No, they ought to go.
WATTERS: OK. Well, you're a lot tougher that I am, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Tom Brady should have been there last year.
WATTERS: Yeah, he should have.
MACCALLUM: He, totally, should have been there.
WATTERS: Maybe he had a different reason. Maybe Gisele wanted to hang out or something.
(LAUGHTER) MACCALLUM: Which is always a good reason to stay home.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Jesse.
WATTERS: Thanks, Martha, you look great in green.
MACCALLUM: Thank you for lending it to me, and I will give it back to you immediately.
MACCALLUM: Here's a good story to end on, one of the best moment from last night game was Pink battling a cold and belting out the national anthem. She did a beautiful job, watch.
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