Trump slams chain migration after NYC terror attack

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 11, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Terror has struck again in New York City. Just six weeks after that truck attack in lower Manhattan. This time a man with a pipe bomb strapped to himself, set off the device in a subway tunnel near Times Square in the height of the morning rush. Three people were hurt along with the suspect who is in custody. Here were authorities right after the incident.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: This was an attempted terrorist attack. Thank God the perpetrator did not achieve his ultimate goals.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: We have identified him as Akayed Ullah. He had burns and wounds to his body. Preliminary investigation at the scene indicates this male was wearing an improvised low-tech explosive device attached to his body. He intentionally detonated that device.


WATTERS: Rick Leventhal at the scene in Midtown Manhattan with the very latest on what happened. And what we're learning about this 27-year-old apprehended. Rick?

RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS: And Jesse, if the suspect's goals was to kill himself and others as he apparently told authorities, well, then he failed miserably. And law enforcement sources are telling me that Akayed Ullah acted alone and he had no conspirators, and then he collected at least some of the materials he used to build that pipe bomb from jobsites where he worked as an electrician here in New York City. The 27-year-old who was originally from Bangladesh apparently traveled frequently overseas according to sources since he arrived here on F-43 family immigration visa in 2011. He was a lawful, permanent resident thanks to a program that President Trump is trying to scale back. Authorities say Ullah detonated that improvise explosive device at 7:20 this morning in an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects the ports authority to Times Square. The device, a pipe bomb was attached to his body with Velcro and zip ties, but he was the only one seriously hurt with burns and lacerations to his midsection and hands. Five innocent people suffered minor injuries.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: This is New York. The reality is that we are a target by many, who would like to make a statement against democracy. Against freedom. We're the statue of liberty in our harbor. And that makes as an international target. We understand that.


LEVENTHAL: Ullah reportedly told investigators that he was inspired in part by ISIS' videos online. And now the police and federal agents are searching his home, his parent's home. All of his devices. Any access he had to the internet to see what he may have said online and who he might have been working with to ensure that he was in fact acting alone, Jesse, as this city remains on high alert tonight.

WATTERS: All right, Rick, thank you very much. And we're just getting new comments from the president of the United States, Donald Trump, Kimberly, and he says this, today's terror suspects entered our country through extended family chain migration, which is incompatible with national security. And he calls for congress to end chain migration and says that someone like this, convicted, should face the death penalty. What are your thoughts on today's event?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: You know, I think, powerful in terms of the comments from the president. But this is very consistent with what he has been talking about, you know, previously, saying that he was against chain migration. And when you see a situation like this, this is difficult to vet. This individual, in fact, was able to come in from an uncle, then through his mother, and be able to get in just prior, a couple of months prior to his 21st birthday. And if he had turned 21, then he would have been able to. So, quite interesting because you can see the loopholes in the law that the president and others are eager to close. And a situation like this where he's radicalized online, I mean, I really think that they should make even a larger push to shut down some of these radicalized sites that are really having such a powerful impact on people like this individual to come here to do harm, you know, to us.

And it just takes one person with a pipe bomb, something like that. He was not very good at it. He injured himself, not enough, obviously, he should imposed the death penalty on himself right then and there. But thank God more people, you know, weren't injured or hurt. But it goes to shows you the complexity of the problem in combating terror in highly dense or urban areas like this and cities where you have a large population, a lot of people, and a potential for great numbers of harm in terms of fatalities, et cetera, because we live in such a densely pack communities.

WATTERS: Yeah. And I think port authority, the largest bus terminal in the United States. We've just heard from President Trump. We also from Governor Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio. Dana, how do you think the local leadership handled the incident today?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think we're going to be finding out more about the two police officer, they're port authority police officers that were right on the scene immediately. Thankfully there were only the five mild injuries that were reported, and bleeding in the ears which is consistent with this type of thing. But one of the things I think to point out, remember the truck attack a month ago, and then you have this. Anytime you have one of these incidents, look at how many resources we have to have in order to deal with any one of these events. It could be just this minor event, relatively minor for -- thankfully, for there are no other casualties. But we're spending a lot to train our emergency medical personnel, our law enforcement, our intelligence. We have made a really big commitment.

And in the B-block, Greg is going to talk a little bit more about ideology and going forward, because there are certain things you can do to harden your defenses and even some of these are soft targets. You can try to harden them, but what we really have to do is deal with the generational war that we are in and we are on a war footing. And the other thing President Trump points out, not just about the chain migration -- I don't think that I've ever heard him talk about the death penalty before. There was no other casualty here except for this guy. This individual getting himself injured, to call for the possibility of the death penalty in a case like that. That is certainly different. And I don't know if he's going to push forward on that. But it's something that might be more of a deterrent going forward.

WATTERS: Yeah. I hadn't heard of that either. Greg, to Dana's point that, you know, we've seen spectacular coordinated attacks, you know, right after 9/11, and obviously 9/11, and now we're seeing more crude and rudimentary attacks with just, kind of like -- they like to say lone wolves, but ISIS inspired individuals. Those are very hard to prevent.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, you can't get a better -- this is like the best you can hope for when a murderous D-bag has his own plan blow up in his ass. It is interesting how ISIS isn't taking credit for this one. He's not ours.

GUILFOYLE: They're own jihad fails. Disavow him.

GUTFELD: That's the funny part, but the unfunny part about is, you know, the mayor says thank God that you were hurt, but it wasn't God, it was incompetence. The only reason why dozen didn't die was a failure in explosives. The intent is the same. It's just the outcome -- it's not divine intervention. It's that the guy wasn't very good at it. That should not make you feel good.


GUTFELD: . because that means we didn't stop it. He still could have done it. We should be happy that no one died. That's great. But what happens is -- because the attack fails, it has such little effect, because we don't -- we immediately go on to do something else. We don't think about it. We almost think as though it's been foiled.


GUTFELD: When actually, it was just -- it was lucky.

GUILFOYLE: False sense of security is what it produces.


WATTERS: All right. Juan, what do you think about today's events and how to move forward and prevent things like that from happening in New York City?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I mean, you know, unlike Greg, I think thank God because I do think.

GUTFELD: I say that it's good, but it is not God that stopped it.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I'm just grateful that -- really, we're talking about here minor injuries except for the guy who apparently damaged himself, his hands and his abdomen, right? But what I noticed is in these situations, no contact with ISIS, although, apparently, he was ISIS inspired.


WILLIAMS: And similarly, when I think back to the guy who ran his truck down the bike path here, I think late October, again, no direct contact, no coordination, but ISIS inspired, right? So, even as we can defeat ISIS, what we see is the ideology remaining something that is like a cancer. It's just out there, especially on the internet. And this guy is 27. I disagree strongly with President Trump. I think that family unification is really great for America. I think families are so important especially in immigrants, because I think they add.

GUTFELD: Precisely. That's why -- the whole thing is -- chain migration is OK one way, it should be OK both ways. If they arrive in a chain and one person in that chain does something, leave in the chain. The potential for leaving in a chain might cost the family to pay more attention to the oddball in the family.

WILLIAMS: It's just like the way that unions use to give out cards. If you're somebody's cousin, or brother, or son, you're more likely to get a union card.


WILLIAMS: . because they know that that other person, the senior person, is going to be watching you. You don't need a boss. Somebody is going to say to you, you better act right. You're representing the family.

GUTFELD: Are you comparing unions to terrorists?



WILLIAMS: I think that what we're seeing is here -- I mean, this is one guy, 27 years old, apparently, the motive is we understand is, he said something to the effect of the United States is bombing my country, and I think I should do some damage here. How ridiculous is this?

WATTERS: No one is bombing Bangladesh.

WILLIAMS: That's what I've just said. That's what exactly what I said. Who is bombing Bangladesh? I'm glad you said that, Jesse, because to me it was like a puzzle. If something is going on that I haven't heard about. But again.


WATTERS: Technically, he's incompetent. And then, you know, philosophically, he's incompetent as well. I want to address something that you said quickly, though, because you mention chain migration. I don't think the president wants to make sure that families aren't unified when they come over here. I think the point is, you don't want chain migration to make up 70 percent of all the foreign nationals that come legally into this country, which it is now. Kimberly, I think the president wants to have an immigration system based on merit, which when they look at education, language skills, how good they are with their hands, how smart they are, things like that, that need to take a higher priority than if your uncle know somebody.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Make it more of a meritocracy. Also, then it allows it to be more properly and thoroughly vetted in terms of what kind of contribution can you provide here to this country. We have a lot to offer you. So why shouldn't there be some reciprocity? And with that, thorough vetting. I'm all for it. When you see a situation like this today, it really does strengthens the argument of the president is trying to make. And you see that he really had enough, like Dana said, that he gone out on a very, you know, far limb to say that this could be a death penalty offense despite the fact that there wasn't an actual loss of life.


PERINO: That's one of the things that he does in a statement like this, he'll throw a little chum out there in the water, where some of us were like -- oh, I can see that. That will definitely leave the news. And it will be much more about President Trump calling for the death penalty, rather than about the actual terrorist attack.

WILLIAMS: The point that I wanted to make earlier was, with regards to chain migration, this guy didn't come over here to do this. I think he came over here and then got this idea in his head, so this.

PERINO: And that's not unusual, actually, if you look at several.

WILLIAMS: Correct. I was about to make that point. That so many of the people who perpetrate this horrific, horror acts, in fact, are Americans who have gotten the ideas over the years.

WATTERS: Well, it's very hard to pinpoint exactly when someone was radicalize.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the point. We don't have evidence of that yet. So I rather wait for a forensic examination of all of his computers, his background, and his life to see at what point he had contact and at what point he became radicalized. Sure. Some of it on the internet, but we don't know who he has been in contact with.

WATTERS: We'll probably going to know more about this guy than the Las Vegas shooter in about 48 hours.

GUTFELD: Well, and you know why? This is the unsung inanimate hero here is surveillance. We know a lot because we saw it. We saw it. We need more cameras. It's the only way to preserve freedom is more security. I know people hate this.

PERINO: It's also the reason why.

GUILFOYLE: I like it.

PERINO: . Congress will take up before the end of the year. The reauthorization of the 702 program, which is part of the FISA program, which talks about the collection and what's allowed. And the president wants to reauthorize. There's going to be a fight about it. But I think he has the upper hand.

WATTERS: All right. More to come on today's terror attack in New York City. Iraq has declared victory in its war against ISIS. But as we know, the fight against terrorist is far from over. Greg's monologue up next.


GUTFELD: As ISIS is being routed, I have one question: Are you surprised? We knew when we eased the rules of engagement and let our men fight, the war would be swift and brutal. We knew once the decision was made to win, we would. It's an obvious truth ignored by the smarter, more enlightened class.

Yet, amidst this good news that we've beaten ISIS, a man sets off a bomb in the name of ISIS. Was he working with others? Who knows? Are we lucky it went the way it did? Hell yes.

This is a lucky reminder that winning the war on ISIS isn't enough because the war is bigger than that. As long as there is an ideology, a technology and a loser seeking infamy that combines both, life itself is a target. It's a mistake to see the death of ISIS as a period at the end of a very ugly sentence, because once we killed a zombie, it returns in a different form. Even when we succeed in Iraq and they fail in the subway, ideology -- the zombie fuel -- persists. To ever ease up even a moment is idiotic. We keep being told however not to change our way of life.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, D-N.Y.: Let's go back to work. We're not going to allow them to disrupt us. That's exactly what they want. And that is exactly what they're not going to get.


GUTFELD: OK, don't change your way of life, we get it. But change your way of thinking. Try this mind exercise: Imagine if today's attack was more sophisticated that it combines something more capable to something more insidious, a drone, a deadly biological substance, imagine that devastation. We often only imagine things until after they happen, but I don't. I'm hopelessly neurotic. I worry so you don't have to. But you should.

So, Dana, Iraq declared victory over ISIS. Is it wise to declare victory? Every time that happens, something always happens.

PERINO: Well, I think that they're also trying to show their domestic audience that they were -- population that it has been worth it. That the new leadership there is saying, working with the United States we were able to beat back ISIS, but, of course, the dangers lurk, and part of that also deals with Iran. So this is a generational war that started way back when. It was way before 9/11.


PERINO: And excuses for some jihadist today's that are saying, oh, it's because President Trump acknowledge Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. That's just the latest in the long line of excuses. I hope that the president does a couple of things when he releases his national security strategy in the next couple of weeks. I believe it's the next couple of weeks. I understand that it's finish. I think we have to talk about resources for state and local government, because of how much it takes in order to protect a city, especially like this one. This idea of see something, say something. I think that people in America need more information about this, like something specific. Because today when you're going through the underground passageway and there's a guy in a coat, everybody is in a coat, what are you supposed to see and who are you supposed to tell? The police officers at the ports authority are obviously extremely good. But I don't understand what seeing and saying something means, I actually think that's about who his family might have known he was socializing with prior to this. And the last thing I would say is that I do think the administration is lacking at this point a counter ideology strategy. So the new national security strategy when it comes out I think should include that.

GUTFELD: Jesse, I report you whenever I can. When I see you I say something.

WATTERS: For what?

GUTFELD: Anything I can think of.

GUILFOYLE: Lot of options.

GUTFELD: There's so many options.

PERINO: We'll find out tomorrow.

GUTFELD: You know what's interesting about this war, is that we didn't see much of it. And I have a theory that it's a new kind of war. It's autonomous. And we were so highly proficient in killing, did you notice that we never saw anything? Is that weird? I think it's weird.

WATTERS: I think, usually, militaristic or expansionist ideologies are always what it do with nation state that have a conventional military, they have a large economy to go along with it. But now -- and we would defeat them militarily, you know, Germany and Nazism, the totalitarian state in Japan, and then communism in Soviet Russia, those were all defeated on conventional battlefields, and then their ideology was extinguished alongside with it. But radical Islamic ideology is completely different because there is no nation-state, and when they tried to create the caliphate, they got decimated. There's really no economic engine behind it. It's all driven by religion. And so, because the religion emphasizes martyrdom, you're going to have people that are willing to kill themselves and willing to kill innocent people, not just in the battlefield, but all over the world, in malls, in Times Square, so there is only a few ways to defeat it. Yeah, you have to defeat them with law enforcement or with the military, but you also have say listen, we need your help. Whether it's see something, say something. And then use tools that were always considered a little edgy, enhanced interrogation, enhanced surveillance, the travel ban, ending chain migration. Those are the types of tools that we need to use I think more aggressively, because we can't tolerate one innocent death. And that's what makes us different.

GUTFELD: Juan, you must be broken hearted that ISIS has lost?


GUTFELD: I don't know. I'm just trying to get you angry.


WILLIAMS: I enjoy time with you.

WATTERS: That sounds really convincing.

WILLIAMS: I'll tell you what, what struck me in this is -- so you see that not only does the Iraqi prime minister declare victory, but Vladimir Putin declared victory over ISIS, and says that he's withdrawing his forces. And when you ask the question, why don't we see more of this? I think that in part because, one, the Russians were in there, and they weren't always acting in our interest. They were sometimes killing off people who were opposition to Assad, which the United States was supporting. I mean, Assad is still there. And the second thing to say about this is, you know, for all of the upset today and, you know, we see this terrible thing happen that could have been far more dangerous, as you pointed out wisely. I think to myself, well, gosh, in the last two months we've seen 58 people killed in Vegas, we've seen people killed in a Walmart in Denver. We've seen people at Texas Baptist Church, 26 just raked down. And yet, somehow, we don't say, hey, there's something going on in this country. We've got to immediately get tougher. No. Donald Trump says nothing. The NRA says just keep going.

WATTERS: I think there's a difference because that guy should've been flagged on numerous occasions.

WILLIAMS: Which guy?

WATTERS: Well, think about the guy in Texas. They should have reported him for the domestic abuse. Never had a weapon.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

WATTERS: . those things fell through the cracks.

WILLIAMS: I'm onboard.

GUTFELD: I think there is a difference between -- one is propelled by ideology, and ideology that wants to snuff out the earth. The other are like absolute nut bags who got through the system. Kimberly, feel free to comment. The floor is yours.

GUILFOYLE: Let me fix all this for you.


GUILFOYLE: It's clear you need me. So when you look at this and you were examining the ideology, you really have to understand and go deep into a Jihad and Islamic terrorism and what they stand for versus an isolated incident from an individual. This is the complete -- the movement. So whether you talk about the caliphate or whether you defeat ISIS, you still have all of those tentacles there and that ideology, and it will take a new shape or form and a new name. That's what it does. So, when you look at a situation like this, yeah, there's a lot that we can do and you have to be tough on it. And what we saw was President Trump in terms of restoring back the original rules of engagement and getting them away from what President Obama had in place. There are many articles written about it this weekend about the big impact. That's one step. Then there is fighting the ideology online so people don't become radicalized. Then there is see something, say something, getting people involved in communities. Then there is immigration piece to making sure that people don't get in here that want to do us harm.

GUTFELD: There you go. We solved everything. I think we're just going to call it a day. Everybody over at my place. Margaritas.


GUTFELD: It's election eve in Alabama. New polling and new developments over the Roy Moore-Doug Jones showdown next.



UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I did not recognize any of those.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I did not know them. These allegations are completely false. I did not date underage women. I did not molest anyone.


PERINO: Alabama GOP senate nominee, Roy Moore, still denies the misconduct allegations against him. The special election is tomorrow. And according to our latest Fox News poll, Moore has a major hurdle to climb over the next 24 hours. He's trailing opponent Doug Jones by ten points. He's about to hold his first public event in nearly a week. President Trump lending some more help over the weekend to Moore with a robocall to Alabama voters. Listen.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is President Donald Trump and I need Alabama to go vote for Roy Moore. We already know Democrat Doug Jones is a puppet of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. And he will vote with the Washington liberals every single time. Get out and vote for Roy Moore. His vote is our Republican Senate and it is needed.


PERINO: The state's senior Republican senator feels differently from the president. Here's Richard Shelby.


SEN. RICHARD SHELBY, R-ALA.: I couldn't vote for Roy Moore. I didn't vote for Roy Moore, but I wrote in a distinguished Republican name.

I understand where the president is coming from. I understand we would like to retain that seat in the U.S. Senate. But I tell you what. I -- there's a time -- we call it a tipping point. And I think so many accusations, so many cuts, so many drip, drip, drip. When it got to the 14-year-old story -- story, that was enough for me.


PERINO: All right. So Kimberly, want to hear some good news?


PERINO: This election ends tomorrow at 8 p.m. when the polls close. And then we'll finally know what the result is going to be.

GUILFOYLE: And the decision desk will bring it to us indeed.

Look, this is a very strong move by the president to support the candidate. You know, it's significant. Perhaps they would've liked to have it sooner. Before there was just more, you know, bleeding out by the candidate. I don't know. I mean, let's see what happens at the polls. They've been wrong before. I think it's really going to depend on how much they're able to get their people out and get out the vote operation.

But the Democrats have put a lot of money into some very strong ads for their candidate, for Jones, to try to get him over the hump.

The problem is, is that Roy Moore does not enjoy the support across the board of the Republicans, like you just saw saw in the statement by Shelby. But a robocall nonetheless, you know, by the president could be persuasive to some in terms of thinking of the bigger picture, getting some elevation on it in terms of votes needed and, you know, shoring up the strength that they have in Congress and the Senate.

PERINO: Jesse, I don't know if it will have an impact, but it has been almost a proxy battle in Alabama for national politicians making a case. So president -- former President Obama and Vice President Biden also taped robocalls that they were trying to pour in there today, so it's possible that voters might have heard from both sides of the aisle if they picked up their phones.

WATTERS: The stakes are high, and Charles Barkley is doing an event with Doug Jones tonight. They really need the black vote to come out for Jones right now. It's breaking down along class lines. You see mostly blue- collar, white, Alabama people, not college-educated going strongly for Moore, and then more white-collar college-educated whites and the business community going in for Jones. I think it's just going to be about turnout.

And with all due respect to the FOX poll, I think it's much, much closer than that. I believe a lot of people from Alabama, when they're asked who you're going to support, probably don't want to say, "I'm going to vote for Roy Moore."

I've said I have a big problem with Roy Moore. The combination of the explosive rhetoric out of him years ago and then to this day, when you add this to some of the credible allegations of inappropriate behavior. I think when he gets to the Senate, if he does, he's going to be a huge distraction. No one is even going to want to sit next to them at the Senate lunchroom. It's going to be very awkward, and he's going to be hounded.

So listen, the timing of this, the Franken stuff really helped him. The Conyers stuff helped him. Distrust in media helped him. So he weathered the storm amazingly, with a little bit help from Gloria Allred, that whole fiasco with the yearbook.

GUILFOYLE: Fake news.

WATTERS: King of swung things his way. But I heard he really caved this last weekend, didn't do a lot of events.

PERINO: And he hasn't done a public event in a week, but he's having a rally tonight.


PERINO: Juan, what do you think is going to happen on the Democratic side?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think actually, on the Democratic side, they're pretty much waiting. I mean, it's sort of their -- in terms of the level, they're in this. But this is a red state. Let's not make any mistake about it.


WILLIAMS: This is a conversation among Republicans about Judge Moore.

And what you see is that the business community community -- Jesse mentioned this -- definitely feels that this would damage Alabama's standing with the business community as they try to bring jobs in, bring industry into Alabama. It kind of throws them back a step.

But the thing I would say about this that strikes me is that he was in Philadelphia. I think was at the Army-Navy football game this weekend.

PERINO: I don't know if that was ever confirmed. That was a rumor.

WILLIAMS: He's gone. He's just, like, not there. And I think in part because he says this -- like this weekend, I was reading a quote where he said he wished everything after the Tenth Amendment hadn't happened. That means that blacks aren't freed from slavery or get the right to vote, but also, women don't get the right to vote.

So much -- this is Roy Moore. And yet, it's not portrayed as this is his positions; this is what he stands for. It's just that oh, says Donald Trump, "He's a Republican, and I need Republican votes." I think Richard Shelby and other Republicans are saying, "Hey, this is not the Republican Party."

PERINO: So Greg, I started this by saying there was good news that this election is going to be over tomorrow, but based on this discussion, I think it might not be over tomorrow.

GUTFELD: No, it won't be. I hate team sport politics, and right now, this is team sport politics. The argument is Moore is bad, but team Democrat is worse.

GUILFOYLE: That's what it comes down to.

GUTFELD: I know, and it's a shame, because it shouldn't be. It doesn't always have to be a team sport. Just because Trump is all in doesn't mean you have to be, too. He'll understand. Because I know he didn't want to do this. He endorsed Strange, so he knew this guy was a problem.

And his daughter -- I'm with -- I'm on team Ivanka on this thing. And I'm sure he still loves his daughter. So I think it's OK to say, even though Trump -- even though Trump is endorsing this guy, it's because he has to because it's his team.

And I have to say, you know, I hope -- I hope the guy loses. And if you're upset that I say that, that's not on me. That's on a team sport ideology that's pernicious. Because the long-term consequences of a Moore is much worse than the initial loss that you will experience tomorrow. Trust me.

PERINO: And interesting. President Trump did not knock Senator Shelby for that.

GUTFELD: No. Shelby is a conservative Republican!

PERINO: Probably the most.


PERINO: All right. And also Doug Jones might vote for tax reform. You never know.

President Trump fired up at the media again over some incorrect reporting. Right back.


GUILFOYLE: As you know President Trump was rightfully fired up on Friday about more bogus reporting by the mainstream media. CNN wrongfully reported the Trump campaign received advanced information from WikiLeaks on hacked DNC documents before they were released.

Then over the weekend, more fake news. Washington Post reporter Dave Weigel attempted to make it look like the stands were empty at the president's Pensacola rally on Friday in a tweet. But he posted pictures that were from hours before the event even started.

Mr. Trump says the media is out of control. He calls all the lies a, quote, "stain" on America. His press secretary was also fired up about it today.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Would you say, Sarah, that journalists make honest mistakes, and that doesn't make them fake news? But the question that I have...

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, when journalists make honest mistakes, they should own up to them.


SANDERS: Sometimes, and a lot of times you don't. There's a difference -- there's a very big -- I'm sorry, I'm not finished. There's a very big difference between making honest mistakes and purposely misleading the American people. Something that happens regularly. You can't say -- I'm not done. You cannot say...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mean like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the Middle East? Repeating something that was completely fake, Sarah.

SANDERS: ... that it's an honest mistake when you're purposefully putting out information that you know to be false.


GUILFOYLE: All right, Jesse, Sarah Sanders dropping the mike.

WATTERS: That was a pretty strong performance by Sanders, and she has a point. Not just the things you mentioned at the top. Brian Ross tanked the stock market over some fake news. And then you had the Bloomberg story about, you know, the investigation trying to subpoena bank records from Trump, which was also not true.

So it's funny to me that every time the mainstream media retracts a story, it's always against Trump. They're never making mistakes in favor of Trump.

GUILFOYLE: Have you noticed that, Jesse?

WATTERS: They're never making mistakes when it comes to, you know, the NFL or military operations or, you know, a Fortune 500 companies. All of the mistakes and the retractions and the fake news have something to do with making Trump look bad. So I don't believe it's honest mistakes. I believe it's even more than sloppy reporting, because there's not a lot of other sloppy reporting. I don't remember a lot of retractions during the Obama administration. They've been more retractions in one year of Trump then there were eight years of President Obama. So I believe it's ideologically motivated.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so.

GUILFOYLE: He does make a fascinating point. There's no mistakes made in favor of the president. That would be auspicious for him.

WILLIAMS: Well, just...

GUILFOYLE: It's all stuff that they have to reel back.

WILLIAMS: Just last week, didn't ABC pull off a producer who was giving the Trump campaign some poll numbers at the end of campaign? I think that's true.

WATTERS: Everybody did so.

WILLIAMS: Oh, OK. And I think that we know about Project Veritas trying to make up stuff. I think we know about that, trying to embarrass media, right? So I think these things happen.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm talking about mistakes that have benefited, like a story where they have -- they put something forward that benefits the president or is favorable to him.

WILLIAMS: Right I'm saying that there are things here that would've helped the president, right, in terms of that story from the ABC providing support and poll numbers to the president.

WATTERS: That's not a story, Juan. That's just something that reporters do.

WILLIAMS: OK. I'm saying Project Veritas was trying to generate stories.

WATTERS: I wouldn't compare Project Veritas to ABC News.

WILLIAMS: OK, but what I'm saying -- what I'm saying is you've got a situation where the biggest story in America today, I don't even care if you're a Republican or Democrat, is the Mueller investigation into Donald Trump. Everybody is after that story. Maybe more people are after Trump's tax returns. I don't know. But they haven't gotten that.

WATTERS: Maybe they're a little bit too anxious, because they keep making mistakes.

WILLIAMS: That's where the competition is. It's like you and I are in a fight, Jesse. You know what? You are -- everybody in America says, that is the story. Who's going to get the story inside the Mueller investigation?

WATTERS: OK, well, they're sloppy, because they're chomping at the bit.

WILLIAMS: Maybe. But I don't think that it's necessarily evidence that as you guys are arguing, oh, it's anti-Trump. I think it's that media in a competition, and sometimes people get sloppy. Brian Ross at ABC got really sloppy.

WATTERS: Got some new sources.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, so what do you make of this, the developments over the weekend and also how the communications were, you know, handled about it? Because Sarah Sanders is taking a very strong stance following up on the positioning and the statements of the president.

PERINO: Well, I think that, just like on the sexual-harassment stories, there are degrees of misconduct. Right? So there are things that are actually blatantly, like, false and totally abhorrent. That's what Brian Ross did at ABC News. It's not the first time. OK? So there's a pattern there.

But then you take somebody like Dave Weigel, who at The Washington Post tweeted the picture of the crowd size. He tweeted it from his personal account, though he is affiliated, of course, with The Washington Post, works for them. And he immediately apologized. It's been 20 minutes. But then they have to pound him all weekend long. And I think that that, I think, is just over the line.

My advice would be, if your performance numbers for your job do not directly tie to your Twitter account, set the thing down. Use it for a news source, but unless you are absolutely sure that something is a "go," don't tweet about it. It doesn't help your bottom line for your company, and it might actually hurt your career.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly. You know, throttle back on the tweets, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes. I've been trying.

GUILFOYLE: Please, especially after the Christmas party tonight.

GUTFELD: I do believe -- OK, first, you've got to be careful about mocking other networks, because it always happens the next day after you -- after you say something about CNN.


GUTFELD: I end up having -- I end up going, "Oh, I made a mistake." And then you try to do it very quickly.

But anyway...


GUTFELD: It is kind of an honest mistake in the sense that, if you really -- the golden rule is if you really want something to be true, you should do your damnedest to prove yourself wrong. Because you know that your confirmation bias is driving you to make a decision. Because the story is so good and fits into your assumptions. It's too perfect. You want it to be right, so you actually have to be really careful that you're trying to delude yourself.

All of these mistakes are based on wanting the story to be true, and it turns out it's not, so it's like you have to -- you have to question your own delusions.

And to put the irony -- Donald Trump is actually, in an odd way, making journalism great again, because now they have to be extra careful, or they prove him right. So they have to -- now they go, like, "If I screw up this time, I'm never going to hear the end of it. Everybody is going to be pissed off."


GUILFOYLE: Thank you so much for that.

GUTFELD: I liked your facial expressions while I was talking.

GUILFOYLE: Did you find them motivational?

GUTFELD: You had a look of horror. What was I doing?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm authentic.

All right. A safe space at Fordham University gets a visit from some pro- Trump supporters. Find out what happens next, ahead!


WILLIAMS: A political scuffle at Fordham University. At the coffee shop after all, and all because of some "Make America Great Again" hats. Check out this video of a student employee kicking out a pro-Trump group, because they were allegedly in violation of the shop's safe space policy.

GUILFOYLE: So ridiculous.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want people like you supporting this club.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then you should be...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one wants people like you supporting our club.

You are wearing hats that completely violate our safe space policy. I'm telling you to take them off or you have to go.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it does! Three minutes! Three minutes!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does the hat stand for?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not -- I do not see fascism, Nazis on this hat. I see America.



GUILFOYLE: My goodness.

WILLIAMS: Wow, so strong feelings, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, it's just so over-the-top and hysterical. I mean, obviously, people are getting completely overwrought over nothing. I don't understand, "Make America Great Again," what's wrong with that? Really? Really? You have like ISIS and terrorists trying to blow us up, and you're upset over a hat; you're losing it over a hat.

WILLIAMS: So if they were wearing an ISIS hat, you would say similarly leave it alone, don't say a word?

WATTERS: You can wear whatever you want. I really don't care. Just there for coffee. I can't believe people in college care about this stuff. I know you've banned this, but this is so Flake City, Gutfeld. Or I should say Greg. I know you don't like when I say your last name.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, you don't?

WATTERS: It's pathetic. Yes, Guilfoyle, it is pathetic.

GUTFELD: In the oval (ph), everybody.

WATTERS: It's just sad that these creatures are never going to make it in the real world.

WILLIAMS: So Dana, this -- a similar incident happened at Howard University, but apparently, there was more of a, like, intent to stimulate that kind of controversy?

PERINO: Well, I think there is a little bit of this, of being provocative to see if you can get a reaction and get it on camera. So that we'll play it on "The Five." Because we know we get pitched that stuff all the time.

But I think that even the left understands that they're starting to have a problem. Not starting. That they have a major problem on campuses, but it's going on -- been going on for many years. And they've got to figure out a way to get around it.


GUTFELD: The left mastered the wearable message. Every van covered in bumper stickers, that was not a conservative. It was always a liberal, at least when I was growing up. So now political messages have migrated to the right, people are doing it. And it is a political message. You're going in there, you're wearing out. But it shouldn't -- a hat shouldn't upset you.

I mean, in the old days the young were adventurous. They went out and did stuff. Now they retreat into these safe spaces. And they -- if you're scared of a hat, what happens if you see a pair of pants?

WILLIAMS: Oh, my goodness. "One More Thing" up next.


WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Let's go to this.


GRAPHIC: Greg's Relaxation News


GUTFELD: "Greg's Relaxation News." Hey, you know, it's been a pretty challenging day, a rough day for a lot of people. So I thought we need to relax with a little hydrotherapy. Let's take a look at Frank. Here's Frank relaxing in his pool.




GUTFELD: There's nothing better than a cocktail and a little lounge, and the lower half of your body in the water, because you never have to go to the bathroom.


GUTFELD: He just got it done. He's getting it done. No one knows. He's so happy. Look how happy.

GUILFOYLE: Just like you, Greg.

GUTFELD: Because he learned it from me.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Master.

WATTERS: OK. I just want to congratulate the Philadelphia Eagles, 11-3 now and locked up the NFC East.


WATTERS: But quarterback Carson Wentz went down, tore his ACL, ACL right here on this play, running for a touchdown.

PERINO: Can't look.

WATTERS: Boom. Right there it ended up happening. They ended up throwing a flag on the play. He came back, ended up throwing a touchdown, a fourth down. And then they pulled him out of the game. He's probably going to be out for nine months. Tough guy. I'm very upset about it. But at least I'm not the Washington Redskins.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you, he's great. I'm so disappointed.

GUILFOYLE: Great season. I know. Poor guy.

WATTERS: He was having a great year. Dana.

PERINO: All right. So there's this place. It's called A Shed at Dulwich. It was recently rated the top restaurant in London on TripAdvisor. But, you can't get a reservation because guess what? It was actually a joke.

A Vice writer named Uma Butler (ph) created this illusion of an exclusive restaurant that was available by appointment only, and people went crazy. His friends wrote all the reviews. It tricked TripAdvisor's fraud detection system, so it's finally busted. But for a couple of weeks, people in London thought this was going to be the hottest ticket in town.

GUILFOYLE: Well, make the restaurant, then.

PERINO: Yes, you could. And just call it Shed.

GUTFELD: The food is probably terrible there.

WATTERS: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK, also in football news, right, Army over Navy. Very interesting. And now this is one of the most inspirational aspects of it, singing the national anthem. And you see the West Point and U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, glee club with a big hit on social media, with many Twitter users saying the performance gave them goose bumps and chills. And you put this in sort of juxtaposition with the NFL controversy. Anyway, God bless them; great kids. So two in a row for Army.

WATTERS: Yes, big win.

WILLIAMS: On Saturday, I took a sleigh ride through the snow to suburban Virginia. I was at the home of the former Marine Corps Commandant Jim Jones. It was a big Christmas party. And he transformed it into a drop- off for Toys for Tots.

PERINO: Oh, neat.

WILLIAMS: The program started by the Marines in '47. The goal: collect 10,000 unwrapped toys to give to children, you know, who may go without because their parents don't have money this season.

While the foundation is based in Virginia, you should know everyone is welcome to donate. If you want to support Toys for Tots, please go to And I mean that with all my heart. These are good people.

GUILFOYLE: God bless.

GUTFELD: I'm a tot. So...

WILLIAMS: You're a tot?

GUTFELD: I'm a tot.

WILLIAMS: A tater tot. A tater tot.

GUTFELD: I'm a dictator tot.

PERINO: Did they get a lot of toys?

WILLIAMS: Oh, man, the place was packed with toys. And let me tell you, toys from politicians and military folks.

WATTERS: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next with Bret Baier.

Bret, we're going to miss you at the Christmas party.


BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: I know. Have fun. Have fun. Merry Christmas. Thanks, Jesse.

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