Report: Matt Lauer accused of harassment by multiple women

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 29, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." This morning at 7 a.m. Eastern, another stunning announcement.


UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. Breaking news overnight, Matt Lauer has been terminated from NBC News.


GUILFOYLE: Long time today, show host Matt Lauer fired from NBC for alleged inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace. Andy Lack, the news chairman at the Peacock Network released a statement this morning that says a complaint was filed last night by a colleague and there is reason to believe it wasn't an isolated incident, and now we know it may not have been. In a piece just published by Variety, it's reported that Lauer is accused of sexual harassment by multiple women. Co-host Savannah Guthrie found out Lauer was let go this morning and had the emotional and difficult task of breaking the news to the world.


SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC: All we can say is that we are heartbroken. I'm heartbroken for Matt. He is my dear, dear friend and my partner. And he is loved by many, many people here. And I'm heartbroken for the brave colleagues who came forward to tell her story and any other women who have their own stories to tell. And we are grappling with a dilemma that so many people have faced these past few weeks. How do you reconcile your love for someone with the revelation that they have behaved badly, and I don't know the answer to that. As painful as it is, this moment in our culture and this change had to happen.


GUILFOYLE: Greg, that was Savannah Guthrie, former colleague of mine from Court TV, obviously having an emotional, challenging time because she had a close relationship, friendship with Matt Lauer. They said she found the information out this morning, Greg, and then had to go on and tell everyone.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I don't know. I remember the good old days when it was just FNC and everybody was making fun of us. FNC is like the first kid on the block who got chicken pox and all the other kids laughed. And then it spread and they're all going holy crap. Is this perfect-geddon ever going to end. Seems to be with Lauer, quite pervasive. But it's not just a pattern of abuse, it is a pattern of acquiescence. When you're at a company and you make a lot of money, the people around that person won't listen to you because he feels he can do what he wants. In a weird way, a lot of these people seem like children, like they have to be told how to act because they've been told yes so many times. Throughout their lives they've been told yes. The idea of somebody saying no makes no sense to them. So they just bring you into an office and then they press a button behind their desk so the door locks. I would like to see that conversation with office services. Like I can understand getting a clap-on light, clap-off, but saying I'd like a button behind my desk to lock the door when I need it so I can have sex with a stranger. It's kind of a hard conversation to have.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Wouldn't be aware of that

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think they're going to be turn down for that one.

GUTFELD: I think so.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So Dana, here we are, back in our old studio today. We'll be in here again, what? Until Friday?

PERINO: We look good in here though.

GUILFOYLE: I think so, too.


PERINO: I'm talking to her.

GUILFOYLE: Situation today for, obviously, for Savannah, for a lot of the people that have grown up essentially and watch The Today Show with Matt Lauer for years.

PERINO: As these revelations have come out, like the Harvey Weinstein one was kind of -- I think one of the biggest. And then, every day, though, you can have another story like this. Just last week, you had CBS's Charlie Rose. And I do think about how all of these other networks covered Fox News when we went through our own difficulties. That's been about a year now -- within the last year. One thing that's different with NBC I thought from the others so far is that NBC got ahead of the news coverage. I wondered about that with CBS and others. You know that these reporters are working on stories. With CBS, for example, the Washington Post story ran, and then the news came out that they were going to suspend and fire Charlie Rose.

In this case, I suppose what happened was that -- because the young woman, I don't know young, the woman came forward to the NBC executive at the same time they knew that these stories were being worked on by various publications, the New York Times and others, that they went ahead into their own investigation and took very decisive action beforehand, so that they actually got to announce the news. NBC announced the news. It wasn't --


GUTFELD: They did a preemptive strike because they knew the daming story was going to break.

PERINO: It was going to be bad.

GUILFOYLE: Well, one of the suggestions they said that they had discovered this, somebody can forward on Monday, but the reporting is also stating that they had been aware of complaints and that newspapers had been working on these items which they usually will contact the media relations department if they have something like this going on to let them know, especially if they want to speak to people that work there.

WATTERS: Yeah. Only NBC News knows how far back the allegations go. Whether they were really decisive, we don't really know that because they could have known about these things for a very long time and because of the avalanche of reporters about to break something that could have forced their hand also, this woman coming forward. But, you know, when Savannah Guthrie said what she said today, I think myself and many people here can understand what she's saying. On the one hand if you work with someone for many, many years and you admire that person and you know that person closely, you feel very sad for that person to crash and burn.

But, at the same time, you feel horribly saddened for the alleged victims of any sort of sexual harassment or impropriety. So it's a very complicated and complex situation for everybody when they're involved and they're working with people that deal like this. This guy made so much money for NBC News. It can't really be understated. This Today Show was the cornerstone of the network. And they made I think hundreds of millions of dollars each year in profit, profit for this network. And Matt Lauer was paid very handsomely. I think he just signed a $20 million a year contract. And it's like the New England Patriots losing Tom Brady. It's their franchise quarterback. The key to the offense, so to speak.

GUTFELD: That's familiar, right?



WATTERS: We've been through it. Other companies have been through it, and now it's happening to them. It's almost like too big to fail. You remember in the financial crisis when, you know, these companies are doing a lot of bad things, but they're making a lot of money for shareholders, and then they crashed the system and then they get bailed out. So perpetuates bad behavior. Now people are saying, you know what, not too big to fail. They're allowed to let bad people go, or people that are accused of doing bad things go. And they're willing to take the hit and start fresh. And I think that's kind of going to be the new outlook when you handle these things. Start fresh.

GUILFOYLE: So Juan, to the allegations also that the New York Times was about to release the story that NBC knew that other stories were about to drop, like they've got ahead of this, what do you think about how this was handled, and in fact how they handled the communications with Savannah today letting the viewers know.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I really don't have much to say about it. I mean, I was surprised in reading not only about the button behind the desk that Greg mentioned, but that they called Matt Lauer last night before he went to bed to let him know but they didn't tell anybody on the staff until this morning when the Today Show staff was coming in. So my take on this though, Kimberly, is that we're in a moment in American culture, I think no question, when you wake up, I mean, it was shocking to me. I thought, really? They fired Matt Lauer? As Jesse said, he was kind of the central pillar of NBC for a long time. And I agree with you, Jesse, I think a lot of companies have to have a different way of thinking that now you can't just say revenue and profit is the be-all and end-all. In fact, there's going to be social consequences and repercussions as a result of backing this. I think back to what happened with Anita Hill and the kind of outpouring. Now you have the hashtag #metoo movement.

On the political front here, I'm so interested in the idea that President Trump continues to get involved. He was tweeting on this this morning and saying you know, that Andy Lack, the president, he said go look at Andy Lack's past. I don't even know what that referred to, but apparently something there. So to me what this boils down to then is you get a situation in our country at this moment where, you know, in the political support that's going on, you have Republican saying, oh, look, the liberals, the Democrats, they don't apply the same standard to their people that they impose on a President Trump or a Roy Moore down in Alabama, who, by the way, is now apparently back in the lead in the polls in his Alabama senate race. Then you see NBC, which is always positive as the left, takes such immediate action. There's more pressure now on Conyers to resign.

PERINO: Not really.

WILLIAMS: I think there is one.

PERINO: The CBC pulled it back today.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I'm talking about overall. And by the way, inside the CBS, there is pressure. You don't want to -- exactly show face to people who are not your friends. But I think that there's no question Conyers is under pressure.

GUTFELD: I don't think this is a political story by any means. I think it's of cultural significance. There is no due process right now. And so, we're talking about a sea change. People keep talking about a sea change, but also it could be a panic. When the entry for allegations becomes lower and there is no investigation, there's no questioning by law enforcement, no time frame to allow an accused to try to defend themselves. So the workplace and the surrounding universe of public opinion is operating now like a college campus. On college campuses, administrators could adjudicate an assault case. That's what's happening now. We're adjudicating law enforcement. Now, if someone accuses you of assault, which is what we're hearing here with Matt Lauer, the law should be involved.

GUILFOYLE: That's criminal conduct.

GUTFELD: However it happened in Sochi, so it's hard to do that because it's in another country. But the fact is, the common bond in these cases, in the media, in politics and in the campus are no due process. We have to worry not just about women but about men because these are your brothers and your sons, you know, they're your siblings, they're your fathers or grandfathers. You have to somehow create a process for these people to answer. I mean, the way Matt Lauer -- the way this reads, the man is a creep. But a lot of people might not be creeps.

WILLIAMS: Why do you think he didn't get due process?

GUTFELD: Maybe he didn't have enough time --

WILLIAMS: No, I don't know that. I think they probably did ask Matt Lauer. They said they conducted an intense investigation over a 36 hour period.


WILLIAMS: I can't imagine that they didn't go to Lauer. Now the lawyer for the woman who made the charges is very pleased and said that clearly NBC --

GUTFELD: I think there's something there, definitely.

WILLIAMS: I think there is something there. But I think that the key here in this discussion about this cultural moment, the reckoning, sea change, everyone referred to it, is that previously the advertisers would not have said a thing. They would have said, well, this is a popular show. That's for someone else to decide. In this cultural moment, the advertisers, much like the voters down in Alabama, -- the president, are going to have their say.

GUTFELD: But I want to know everything then. I want to know everything about what's going on. I want to know the specific elements of ever case. It's like drug overdoses. You benefit from knowing precisely how people died. The ingredients you have in every case is important because that's the difference between a panic and a sea change.

WILLIAMS: Well, he gets confidentiality.


WATTERS: And speaking of panic, we're just mentioning this when we were in the green room. So the pendulum swings the other way now. And unfairly or unfairly (sic), women can then be unfairly punished because men are now so scared of, rightly or wrongly, being alone with a woman in the office, going on a golf trip, a corporate golf trip, an excursion. Anything where you're alone with someone who you work with, there is now a climate of fear. And you don't want women unfairly punished and not included in meetings or in sessions where you're kicking around ideas because of the fear of some sort of unfair retaliation. I don't think it's going to happen that way.


WATTERS: To say that now, can we go out for drinks? What's going to happen? I fear that that's going to happen. I don't think it will, but you never know.

WILLIAMS: isn't that the Pence rule?

WATTERS: The what?

WILLIAMS: The Pence rule.

GUTFELD: Never be alone.

WILLIAMS: Never be alone.

WATTERS: Well, you know, he was mocked for the Pence rule. I know a lot of people wishing --

GUTFELD: But you don't want the Pence rule.

WATTERS: I don't think the Pence rule --


GUILFOYLE: The chilling effect so then women are deprived of opportunities. So they might as well have been included on. And then, otherwise, in the abundance of caution and fear and paranoia for something they wrong because there isn't perhaps due process and an allegation could be enough to blow you out, or an allegation could be investigated and you find the evidence of it that supports it. But right now, we're just in a state of flux, Dana, that's there's -- everything is kind of piled in together and it's tough to kind of sort it out.

PERINO: Just to bring it back to this in particular, so you had Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose, just for example, they were -- and also, Mark Halperin, commenting on things about -- things that happened here at the network, if we were the first one. We're the chicken pox. So then they're covering these stories. And you think about what happened last week when Al Franken gave his sound apology -- apology, and gets the question, what would you have thought two weeks ago? He said this never would have occurred to me. And I have to wonder, when they were actually doing the commentary or interviews about what was happening at Fox News, if internally that they had any idea that their behavior was going to come back to haunt them. It might be one thing that's weird culturally in this moment. Do men in positions of power have to rethink what they've been doing, if they thought it was OK before.

GUTFELD: I remember sitting in a bar in Cleveland. You were sitting over there, and Matt Lauer was sitting right there, and all he kept doing was asking me about Ailes. Constantly asking me about Ailes. And I'm going like this is not the right place to talk about this stuff. Ailes haven't been gone yet. It was the day before. It was like, I don't know.

WILLIAMS: What about his interview with O'Reilly?

GUTFELD: Yeah. When he said the top man doesn't go or something like that.

WILLIAMS: Something about how you ask questions or, you know, exercising power over your subordinates.


GUILFOYLE: Coming up, President Trump at his tax cut rally in Missouri hammering home the need for the senate to pass the package fast. The highlight is next. Stay with us.


PERINO: President Trump wrapping up a speech a short while ago in Missouri to rally support for his tax cut plan that's awaiting a crucial vote in the senate. If passed, it would be the nation's first tax overhaul in three decades. Here were some of the highlights.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: If we do this, then America will win again like never, ever before. A vote to cut taxes is a vote to put America first again. This is going to cost me a fortune, this thing. Believe me. Believe me. This is not good for me. I have some very wealthy friends not so happy with me. Now it's great for companies because companies are going to bring back jobs. And we're lowering the rates very substantially. That's good for everybody in the room, whether you have a company or whether you want a job.

It's not easy dealing with the Democrats. They want to have people pour into our country, illegals. They don't care where the hell they come from. They want to raise your taxes. They don't want to take care of your military. And all they're good at, frankly, is obstructing. Little rocket man, rocket fuel for the American economy. We must start totally winning and winning and winning again. Remember what I used to say? We're going to win so much. We're going to keep winning and winning.


PERINO: He also went after home state senator, Claire McCaskill, she opposes the tax package. The Democrat is a top Republican target in the midterm. And I thought we're going to have more sound about her going after him. OK, so the tax bill, Greg. It's got some momentum.


PERINO: How do you feel about it?

GUTFELD: I don't know how I feel about it. I'm confused. And maybe that's my fault. I'm not going to blame it on anybody but me. It's not simple enough for me in the individual part. In corporate, I totally get it. But as an individual, it's like they took a brand-new Rubik's cube which is already complicated, and then they went like this.

PERINO: Mushed it.

GUTFELD: They mushed it around. It's like trying to untangle -- when you're thinking about taxes, it's like untangling your earbuds to your iPhone. You're like sit there and just keep going like this and I don't know -- but I will say this, I always enjoy watching him do this stuff. It's like, you can see in his head him contemplating jumping off the cliff of a joke. He looks up. He's gauging the benefits versus risks of each joke and then you just see it coming. And then, unlike a lot of people, he jumps which is kind of refreshing.

PERINO: Juan, what to think about the Democrats? There's Heidi Heitkamp from North Dakota, and Senator Manchin of West Virginia have both said they're not necessarily a no, but they're open to voting on the tax package. Is it possible that President Trump having some impact doing these types of speeches in their states trying to get them to get on board?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's why he was in Missouri. That's why he went St. Charles, was to go after Claire McCaskill. But McCaskill does not look to be, you know, winnable or persuadable at this point. Now with Heitkamp and with Manchin you get a different situation. I think that Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the senate, has been riding a very close watch on those two because he worries that in fact a populist Trump movement, Trump won both states big, could lead them to lose their seats. But on the other hand, remember the polls right now shows that -- not only Democrats but Republicans overall, this is not a popular tax deal.

PERINO: It's not a messaging problem, Jesse. A lot of Republicans do want tax reform. Is it perfect? No, not necessarily.

WILLIAMS: But it's just what he said -- what Greg said. It's not tax reform. This is tax cuts.

(CROSSTALK) PERINO: But if you're eliminating --


GUILFOYLE: Well, tax cuts are --

PERINO: If you're doubling the deduction and you're changing out deductions that people are no longer going to have to be, that's reform.

WILLIAMS: No. I think reform is that you make it simpler.

WATTERS: Well, they're reducing the rates. I think they're going from 7 to 4.

GUILFOYLE: That's your definition of it though. I mean, for us, tax cuts I think are in compass within tax reform. Is it still comprehensive change that's going to produce a different outcome, which is consistent with his campaign message that he wanted to make sure that the people, the working middle-class people across this country were going to be able to get a little bit of a boost and help for their families by making things more affordable for them in having those kinds --

WILLIAMS: I think that's why it's not popular because if you do away with things like state and local tax deductions, if you limit property tax deductions, you know that hurts the real estate --

PERINO: I agree.

WILLIAMS: -- this is why people don't like it.

PERINO: They have messaging problems on the Republican side with some Republican voters who are saying wait a second. When I look at this, I don't know how I'm going to come out. I think people agree on the corporate tax rate, but they do have a problem like with Marc Thiessen who pointed out today in his Washington Post column that if you have a unified Republican government, how is it that some people's taxes are actually going to go up?

WATTERS: Well, leave it to the Republicans to mess up tax reform. I mean, I'm not surprised. It was obviously smart to go to Missouri. He won Missouri by double digits. And Claire McCaskill is vulnerable. I don't know if she's going to vote for this thing. I think she should. He was pretty funny about it when he went after her. He goes, Clair is weak on crime, weak on borders, weak on national security. She's great on everything else.


WATTERS: Which was cute, and that will play big in the local media markets. But this was a very America first type of speech, very nationalistic, very populist. He kind of did this drain the swamp deal, hit those big slogans, but at the same time played a little class warfare. You know, I'm not getting helped out by the tax cut, which I don't like. I don't think that's fair. I think everybody should get an across-the-board tax cut, but he's playing that up because he needs votes from Democrats. I don't think he's going to get them. And I think he's a little ashamed about being so wealthy, and then reducing his own taxes, so he has to say that. And again, I agree with Juan.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think he's ashamed about being wealthy.

WATTERS: Not ashamed, but I think he knows he's vulnerable on tax cuts for the rich, so he's playing to that crowd.

GUILFOYLE: This is the good messaging, like dana said though that they really need. And we've talked about how many times that we think that the person -- messaging to sell this is the president of the United States.

GUTFELD: These rallies.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody can do it like he does. Let him get out there, get in front of the people because it's memorable. It sticks with people. It's like, that's the way they understand it. Because if you don't -- people aren't able, like Greg says, well, I like it, I like the corporate, but I have problems with the individual. He's got to sell it to him, and he's got to sell it the neighbor down the street, and he's got to do something that's going to stick with them so they can say I'm behind this --

WILLIAMS: You know one thing is it may not -- I think we may not be talking about this in a little bit because when we're talking about the fact that the Democrats, where he does need Democratic votes on a budget deal --

PERINO: That's right, next Friday the government could shut down. So you want to stay tuned to bring it you ahead. Is your privacy at stake? The Supreme Court hearing arguments today on whether smartphones can be seized without a warrant. That's up next.


WILLIAMS: Should the government be able to seize your smartphone and other private digital information without a warrant and then use it against you? The Supreme Court heard arguments today on the subject in a major test of privacy rights in the digital era.

At issue, whether the Constitution's Fourth Amendment requires a search warrant for the government to access a person's cell phone location history. Some justices signal they want to impose limits on the government's ability to track the movement of Americans. A ruling is due by the end of June.

So just to lay out for everybody the scenario, the case involves a man, Tim Carpenter, who was suspected of involvement in nine robberies of T-Mobile and RadioShack stores in Ohio and Michigan. And the government then looked at his data, you know, where he received and made phone calls, and based on the cell phone towers, which are able to give you the vicinity that the phone is in, said he was near each of these crimes.

The lower courts allowed it. Now they're being tested in the Supreme Court. I go to the lawyer in the company, my friend Kimberly Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, former prosecutor. So which way do you think I fall on this?

WILLIAMS: You're just a hard -- you're a hanging judge?

GUILFOYLE: Information grabber.

WILLIAMS: But what about your privacy? Like if somebody said, "I want to follow Ms. Guilfoyle," you would say what?

GUILFOYLE: Well, that happens all the time.

WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh.

GUILFOYLE: So here's the thing. I think that it's very important, especially in cases, like exigent circumstances, very helpful. And, like, kidnapping cases or missing children. Or suspicious, you know, individuals in the area or someone who matches the suspect's description, that you want to be able to move expeditiously on something, and seize information.

So in that sense, I don't think you have a problem. I mean, you could go to a judge on it to be extra careful, because what you don't want to do is have a case then kicked back or reversed on appeal because you did one of these things, which was a warrantless, you know, seizure of information and violating the Fourth Amendment rights.

So it gets a little bit tricky, and I'm curious to see how the court comes down on this, because it is -- people are going to complain about their privacy and say, well, you should take the time to go to the court. But the flip side of it, you lose that moment that's right then, contemporaneous with the crime that's going on if you do that. Versus going ahead and tracking and pinning. Somebody's missing, if your loved one was missing or, God forbid, a family member, what would you want to do?

WILLIAMS: Right. Well, so Jesse, here's the funny thing about this, is Tea Party Americans for Prosperity, conservative groups and liberal groups, Color of Change, Center for Media Justice, they're on the same side. They say, "Hey, Supreme Court, protect data rights, because the government can use it to punish you for political activity, tell if, whether or not you go to a certain church." They don't like it.

WATTERS: I've now changed my mind twice. Once listening to Kimberly and now listening to you. I came in thinking that, yes, I don't want anybody being able to look at my location without a warrant. You go to a judge and get the warrant and then you can find out someone's location.

But you changed my mind, because if it is a situation where you need the information immediately, a kidnapping...

GUILFOYLE: Terrorism.

WATTERS: ... or a high-speed chase. Terrorism, yes, exactly. And people's lives are in imminent danger. I understand you need to do that as fast as possible, but I don't know: how long does it take to obtain a warrant?

GUILFOYLE: There could also be a public safety exception there, too. Like, remember San Bernardino, the terrorists...

WATTERS: That's what I would do.

GUILFOYLE: ... were fleeing. And I would want to ping and make sure and find out if, in their area, where they are going if you could track them on their mobile device and catch them. Does that seem like reasonable?

WATTERS: That seems fine. And I would carve out a public safety exemption there.

But at the same time, I heard they can also crack into your Internet search history.


WATTERS: Gutfeld is terrified of that.


WATTERS: I would hate to be the FBI agent to look at Gutfeld's search history. I would not want to wish that on my worst enemy. But that's also in play.

GUILFOYLE: Well, of course. So Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Sixth Circuit says no reasonable expectation of privacy in those type of records.

WILLIAMS: Correct. So Dana, Facebook, Google, Apple, they have filed a brief. They're not on either side. They're a little bit like Jesse. They're caught in the middle, and they say, just be sensitive to the data, Supreme Court.

PERINO: Well, I'll try to go quickly. I know we're running out of time. So the way it was explained to me by a senior law enforcement officer is the difference between contact and content.

One of the examples he gave is say that you have a situation where there were five rapes in an area, and you get the cell phone information. You get 12,000 numbers, and you find out, oh, this one number, he was in all five places. Boom, you've got your guy.


PERINO: OK. So that is not content. They don't know what was in those phone calls or in those messages where he was where there was a ping. That, you would have to go and get a warrant for.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: The contact should be allowed for law enforcement.

WILLIAMS: Greg, what do you think? Because I think the court is also saying we can't -- you're not supposed to, like, have a long-term surveillance of a car, for example, if you're law enforcement, without getting a search warrant. But in this case, it would just be like, well, if he had a cell phone on him, so we -- we tracked it.

GUTFELD: I think the idea of what is private these days is completely nuts. As they say, Google doesn't charge you for their product, because you are their product. They are selling you to advertisers. People know where you are.

Security and freedom are not enemies. If you don't -- they are basically siblings. You can have no freedom without security.

If you think -- here's a great example that they -- a good example to use. Somalia has no security whatsoever. You'd assume they would be as free as ever. One of the least free countries in the world. Infrastructure that guarantee security also guarantees freedom.

Poor people in Somalia would love to have the security we do. They would have the freedom that we do.

I think we live in an era of luxury secluded from threats. Yet, we have no idea what's going on around us. Therefore when we see these stories, we go "Oh, my God. They're attacking our security -- or our freedoms." But the fact is, we don't know what terror attacks have been prevented and, because we don't know, naive libertarians can squawk as if security isn't needed.

WILLIAMS: So that's your bottom line. Security, not privacy.

GUTFELD: No, wait a second. You totally -- no. I said they're -- Jesus.

WILLIAMS: Go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead.

GUTFELD: I said security and freedom go hand-in-hand. They're inseparable. You can't have one without the other.

WATTERS: Siblings. That's the line.

WILLIAMS: Siblings. OK.

GUTFELD: You put it in the Juan Williams decoder.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he does. He does like this.

WILLIAMS: No, because you know what? The Supreme Court -- the Supreme Court has to...

GUTFELD: You took a Rubik's Cube, and you went like this.

GUILFOYLE: No, he's Frankenstein. Just the head and the feet.

WILLIAMS: No, here's what I'm saying. If you're on the court -- if you're chief justice...

GUTFELD: It's over, Juan.

WILLIAMS: ... you've got to vote, buddy. You can't say it's like a Rubik's Cube. You're got to make a vote.

PERINO: Next topic.

GUTFELD: Let him have it.

WILLIAMS: Coming up, a highly controversial message to white students printed in a college newspaper. Gregory's monologue picks it apart, next.


GUTFELD: It's not often I get to do a monologue where I don't get to say anything -- just quote. Here it is: A Texas State University newspaper piece tells white students, "Your DNA is an abomination."

Rudy Martinez, the writer, begins, "When I think of all the white people I've ever encountered, there is perhaps only a dozen I would consider decent."

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

GUTFELD: Hmm. I wonder if one of them is Lou Dobbs.

Now, if you think that's a little mean, try the ending of the piece. Rudy writes: "Whiteness will be over, because we want it to be, and when it dies, there will be millions of cultural zombies aimlessly wandering across a vastly changed landscape. Ontologically speaking, white death will mean liberation for all. Until then, remember this: I hate you, because you shouldn't exist. You are both the dominant apparatus on the planet and the void in which all other cultures upon meeting you die."

I've got to say that is some amazing writing, as evil as it is.

According to The Washington Examiner, the writer of this piece, Martinez, was arrested in D.C. during Trump's inauguration and tried to crowdfund for legal fees. That's not surprising. That figures.

What's surprising is that in an era of safe spaces, where students get out of classes or ban speeches because of diverse opinions in words, a college paper in Texas can run this savage call to violence.

And as Hollywood creates movies and TV shows that push the myth that America is a sexist, racist tyranny, a college paper would happily run a piece that essentially calls for genocide. But I guess if the color's white, mass murder is OK.

See, I almost was going to rhyme it.

PERINO: Rhyme. Why didn't you?

GUTFELD: Well, you know what? Rhyming is too easy.


GUTFELD: Sometimes I like to switch it up.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: Anyway. You loved this piece, didn't you?

PERINO: I don't -- I can't understand why they think that this is a good use of their time. I mean, but it is interesting.

GUTFELD: It's free speech.

PERINO: Is it just -- is it just an outlet for them? Are they trying to get outraged? Like, I don't get...

GUTFELD: It's to raise awareness. It's to raise awareness. It's -- you know, it's always important, Jesse, to raise awareness.

WATTERS: That's what the excuse. They wanted to start a conversation.


WATTERS: Can you ban that? I hate when people say that.

GUTFELD: I think I did, like, six years ago.

WATERS: Well, they weren't listening. The other thing they say is people -- the minorities can't be racist. The only people that can be racist are people with power.

I disagree. Anybody can believe another race is inferior...


WATTERS: ... or superior. That doesn't matter to me.

This was basically calling for racial extermination. If you had reversed white and black, this would never have been published.

I agree there are advantages to being white in this country. Criminal justice system, socially, corporate America, I get that. I'm not acutely aware of it because I'm white, but I agree that it exists.

There's also advantages to being handsome or attractive...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WATTERS: ... or rich. Or well-educated. We can talk about that.

I think that class is a bigger determination of success in this country than race. And if you ask people and Appalachia if they're getting a lot of benefits from their white skin, I don't know if they'd all agree with that.

GUTFELD: You know, within that weird commentary from Jesse, there was some truth, Juan, and that is old-school leftists, it was always about class and not about identity. And right now, what you're seeing is the arguments about class, and the class system and the oppressive classes, is now being replaced with skin color.


WILLIAMS: Well, first of all, I mean, obviously the history of the country, skin color was very determinative. And pieces like this, I have to say, did -- appeared in more than student newspapers when it came to demeaning black people or, you know, calling them out on -- as somehow inferior and the like.

So I was interested in this, but I must say in response to your point that this guy identifies as a Marxist and has previously written in those terms, which I find kind of bizarre.

Now, the editor of the paper, who apologized, said that he intended to use this space to talk about class and identity politics. And to bring it into that.

But to me it was an offensive piece.

GUILFOYLE: Obviously.

WILLIAMS: I don't see how you can get away. And I could -- you know, my instinct was to say, is this guy just lashing out at something that happened?

PERINO: Yes, that sounds like it.

WILLIAMS: And then on the other hand, you know what? He says he has friends and lovers and associates who are white. I mean, it's like...

GUTFELD: That's like saying...

PERINO: What an abomination.

GUTFELD: That's like saying, "Some of my best friends are black."


GUTFELD: "Some of my best friends are black."

Kimberly, the great thing about this is everything lives forever. How hard is it going to be for this guy to get a job? Because whenever anybody's -- you Google somebody's name and that comes up, they're racist.

GUILFOYLE: It's a conversation stopper, really. Like, OK, that's not going to work out too well.

But yes, it just seems very -- to me, I'm offended by it. I get, you know, he has a First Amendment right to -- I don't think it was very nice, No. 1. I think it's racist to say that. Can you imagine if it said black or Latin or whatever or brown is an abomination? Can you imagine?


GUILFOYLE: But yet it's OK to behave like this and act so racially divisive? I don't understand how this is...

PERINO: He must get some benefit out of it.

GUTFELD: Attention. He's on "The Five" right now.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he said he had lovers. Did you notice the plural?


PERINO: I did notice that.


GUTFELD: Well, they have an opening at "The Today Show."

Ahead, Monica Lewinsky is not happy about a new TV special on her affair with Bill Clinton. That's next.


WATTERS: Monica Lewinsky is not happy with the title of a new HLN special bearing her name. The show is called "The Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal." She saw a write-up on it, referring to it as the "Monica Lewinsky Scandal" and offered her suggestions for a title change on Twitter. Her revisions: "The Starr Investigation" or "The Clinton Impeachment." She writes, "Fixed it for you. You're welcome."

Kimberly, does she have a point, do you think?

GUILFOYLE: Listen, you know, it might not be nice sometimes to be Monica Lewinsky and heave the situation, especially the whole issue being resurrected, you know, again. I imagine she's lived her, you know, whole life like this and was put down by so many people.


GUILFOYLE: And the climate and the time has changed so much. You just can only imagine how she feels inside with what she went through, but at the same time, you know, she does maintain that it was a consensual relationship but that there was a disparity, right, in terms of the power of the relationship.



GUILFOYLE: And perhaps the propriety of it. That he did take advantage of his position as president of the United States.

So I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't -- I'm sure she probably doesn't want a story or a show about herself.

WATTERS: No, it must be very painful for her.

Juan, do you think she they should change the title?

WILLIAMS: Yes, because it's really not about her. It's about Bill Clinton.

WATTERS: But everybody knows it as Lewinsky. Isn't that just semantics?

WILLIAMS: It's not fair. It's not fair to her.


WATTERS: Not fair. Is it fair?

PERINO: No, I don't think it's fair, but it is what it is. I mean, it's going to be hard to change that. The -- it's not necessarily -- she doesn't have a lot of money behind her to do a branding -- rebranding exercise.

I don't -- I've never met her, but I know people who do and like her very - - and they like her very much and say she is brave and courageous. What I like about this, too, is that she's kind of funny.


PERINO: So she was creative in a way to figure out a way to do this and use social media. I thought it was good.

WATTERS: Yes, that was cute. Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: It -- the real outrage here is one choice that somebody made in their 20s will now be the lead in their obituary. There's nothing that she's going to be able to do that will get past that. So in issue of fairness, it should be the same for Bill Clinton, and that first paragraph of his obituary should be this scandal.

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on. President? President of the United States?


GUILFOYLE: Turned it, like Monica Lewinsky scandal. Like she did something wrong.

GUTFELD: Fair and balanced.

WILLIAMS: You're too much.

WATTERS: Fair and balanced is an understatement.

"One More Thing" is up next.



GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Dana.

PERINO: All right. Well, this year, the Capitol Christmas tree came from Kootenai National Forest in Montana. It's very beautiful. It's 79 feet tall. And it's in Engelman spruce. And it would not have made it without Larry Spiekermier behind the wheel of his big rig there. He drove the tree from Montana to D.C. It took him two weeks, making 20 stops along the way. He's been on the road for almost 50 years but with over 1.6 million accident=free miles. But this drive was extra special, and he talked to FO


LARRY SPIEKERMIER, TRUCK DRIVER FOR CAPITOL CHRISTMAS TREE: Every stop that we made along the whole journey, there was nothing but happy faces because this is the tree for the people. I'm going to call this the crown jewel of a driving career, and I guess I'm blessed and lucky to have such an opportunity.


PERINO: He also wrote a piece about his journey on So you can check that out there.

Congratulations, and thank you, sir.

Tonight in New York, they're lighting the Christmas tree over in Rockefeller Center. So...

GUTFELD: I am going to avoid that like the plague.

PERINO: ... avoid the area.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Ms. Happiness over there.

GUTFELD: You know what? Speaking of Christmas, it's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Fashion News.


GUTFELD: Everybody got drugs (ph)?

All right. This is going to make you throw up through your eyeballs. Check out the ugly sweater sweater. It's a long-sleeved sweatshirt designed with holiday themed sweat stained patterns.


GUTFELD: This is possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. I've ordered 60 of them. I'm going to give them to everybody on my staff, and I expect them to wear them at the holiday Christmas party. These are -- it's not even real sweat; it's fake sweat. It's fake spews.

GUILFOYLE: Well, would you want it to be real sweat?

GUTFELD: No, you should sweat and then the pattern of sweat should show up. Which I think is a "Shark Tank" idea, if I remember correctly.


GUTFELD: No, let's talk about it for two more hours.

GUILFOYLE: No, let's move on.

GUTFELD: Forget about "Special Report."

GUILFOYLE: OK. Yes, that's what people are thinking at home.

WATTERS: All right. Now for a new edition of...



GRAPHIC: Mom Texts


WATTERS: OK. As many of you know, my mom is part of the resistance and writes me texts during the show. Here we go.

"You are screaming at Juan and so disrespectfully. Tone it down!"

WILLIAMS: Yay, mom.

WATTERS: "Remember to respect your elders and I mean Geraldo!"

"Do not throw your hat in with Rasputin." She calls Putin "Rasputin."

"Eyebrow problems? Did you dye your eyebrows black?" No.

GUILFOYLE: They are very dark lately.


WATTERS: "Commitment to the world's environment is both lofty and critical. Are you proud to go public with the fact that you do not recycle!!!? Sad."

And then finally, "We need to be worried about the stability of the Republic!"

GUILFOYLE: I love her.

GUTFELD: I think she has a future at MSNBC or somewhere.

GUILFOYLE: She's spot on, and I'm glad that your mom's sticking up for Juan.

GUTFELD: She could sit in for Juan. She could sit in for Juan when he's not here.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that's an idea.

GUILFOYLE: ... part one.

WILLIAMS: All right. All right. Here we go. Time to pay up, buddy.

California Senator Kamala Harris made a bet with Texas Senator Ted Cruz.


WILLIAMS: You see them right there. Kamala. On the World Series.

As you know, in seven games, I think it was one of the great World Series. The Houston Astros beat the L.A. Dodgers. So yesterday, the bill came due. What you're seeing on the screen, she's making good on that friendly wager. She produced a lunch of California goods, a cross-party example of respect and friendship.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Good job, Kamala Harris.

Just real quick, just want to say congratulations to 22-year-old Mikayla Holmgren, making history Sunday night as the first woman with Down Syndrome to compete in the Miss Minnesota USA pageant. Very fantastic.

PERINO: Great.

GUILFOYLE: All right, everybody. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." Because guess what? "Special Report" is up next. Bret, over to you.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thanks, Kimberly. They do want to see "Special Report."

Another busy news day.


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