Ingraham: A first lady double standard? Dershowitz: Trump team not aggressive enough with Mueller

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," November 28, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Good evening from Washington. We will get right to it tonight.

A first lady double standard, that's the focus of tonight's ANGLE. She's gracious, generous, and beautiful inside and out. So, if Melania Trump were a liberal, it would be a non-stop love fest from the media. But since she is married to President Trump, it's a very different story.

The first lady's shoes were wrong during hurricane relief. Remember, they mocked her accent in a recitation of the Lord's Prayer before a rally. Now according to some in the media, she can't even decorate the White House for Christmas properly. Let's recall, by the way, how Michelle Obama was treated when she rolled out her White House decorations.


BARBARA WALTERS: The next stop the red room, festooned with cranberries and fruit trees.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: We will have more than 90,000 people come through these doors.

WALTERS: How many hands do you shake at Christmas?

OBAMA: Thousands. Thousands.

WALTERS: Show me how you do it.

OBAMA: You know me.

OPRAH WINFREY: There are so many firsts in the White House. I remember the first time you all came to the White House. A big front-page story with you in the red dress. The first time you spent the night at the White House, the first cabinet meeting at the White House. What is your favorite first?

OBAMA: That's a good question. Christmas -- I have never visited the White House during Christmas. It's just absolutely magical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): They are managing a star. She can sell magazines simply by being on the cover. She can sell sweaters simply by putting them on. She's a striking Harvard educated lawyer who can hold her own next to anyone.


INGRAHAM: OK. That is great to go back and remember. It was her arms. Everything was great about Michelle Obama on the cover of Vogue. You would swear that Michelle walks on eggnog. But when Melania Trump unveiled this year's spectacular White House Christmas decorations, Vanity Fair went on the attack.

This nasty columnist, I never heard of her name, Kenzie Brian, suggested that the first lady had finally made herself productive. This is what she said, "Is it safe to assume that we have some clarity as to what she's been up to when she is not traversing the Great Wall of China or making an appearance at the turkey pardoning ceremony? Maybe?"

It's funny how little concern they had for what Michelle Obama was up when she was jetting all over the globe and hosting private parties at the White House with all of the Hollywood glitter.

I mean, every other weekend, it was like celebration time in the White House or she was carting her children all over the place on the Harry Potter movie set, walking down Broadway every time she and Barack had date night. It was all great, all at the taxpayer expense.

I could go on and on and on, but it's nearly Christmas. Back to Melania, the first lady made one of the most elegant entrances I have ever seen at a White House Christmas decoration preview. She descended the Truman staircase as ballet dancers performed in the great hall.

That was even ridiculed. Vanity Fair this time actually put words in the first lady's mouth, writing, quote, "Adequately done. She probably whispered to the principal dancer. I only counted four mistakes." Isn't that fun?

Online some are comparing night time images of the Christmas decorations to a total nightmare, the white witch. It's all up there. The real nightmare is the double standard that has become so obvious, routine, and apparently so acceptable where conservative women are concerned.

The only real acceptable real authentic woman in the media landscape today is a liberal woman, a progressive one. If you are not, you are just too dumb and stupid to know the difference. Remember what these two first ladies said.


OBAMA: As far as I'm concerned, any woman who voted for Hillary Clinton voted against their own voice.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They will be under tremendous pressure, and I'm talking principally about white women, from fathers and husbands and boyfriends and male employers not to vote for the girl.


INGRAHAM: All right. Hillary, we are all damsels in distress. Long ago these icons of the left and others sounded the dog whistle that it was OK to trash conservative women and their media lackeys followed orders.

It's disgraceful that a White House garden planted and maintained by the park service was celebrated for years in the media as a Garden of Eden because it was dreamt up by Michelle Obama.

But when a conservative first lady decorates the White House and spends time with D.C. school children, she is accused of exploiting them and savaged for her wardrobe. What happened to women being able to choose whatever they want to wear, whatever they want to wear it?

They are pro chose to aborting babies, but you can't choose what you want to wear? It's a glaring double standard. It has to end. It's so obviously. Leave the first lady alone and enjoy the decorations.

It's Christmas time, which may well be the most beautiful series of decorations I have ever seen at the White House and that's the ANGLE.

Joining us now with reaction, conservative commentator, Monica Crowley, along with Julie Alvin, a liberal analyst. Julie, I want to start with you because I thought -- look, Michelle Obama had her own style and approach. That's great.

She was the toast of the town for eight straight years. She is still the toast of the globe no matter where she goes. She is a celebrity former first lady and treated like royalty. OK. Why the treatment of Melania from her accent and ridiculing her child at one point and now the Christmas decorations? Why?

JULIE ALVIN, LIBERAL ANALSYT: First of all, I think that all of us here can agree that there is really no point in criticizing Melania's Christmas decorations. That's not something that I think is of particular interest to the public. It's not something that I support.

Melania, I think your decorations look lovely. I wish you well, but I don't think that we can forget the way that the conservative media did treat Michelle Obama. I think that's something that you are overlooking here.

So, for example, Infowars called Michelle Obama a tranny, which is something that is so problematic, I can't even get into the different reasons why. Breitbart allowed virulently racist comments about Michelle Obama to surface on its website.

Rush Limbaugh criticized Michelle Obama for her weight. This particular network had a contributor who also criticized Michelle Obama for her weight and referred to her as Barack Obama's baby mama.

So, while I certainly don't agree with the hoopla over Melania's decorations, I think they look nice. I think she should be allowed to decorate the White House and not received criticism for it, we can't act as though the media was not critical of Michelle Obama.

INGRAHAM: You are citing a bunch of conservative or kind of far-right websites. I'm talking about mainstream media publications and people who are on mostly other cable news outlets who rarely come to the defense of Melania Trump. She is viciously maligned.


By the mainstream media? I don't know -- let's go to Monica. I don't see any mainstream media outlets maligning Melania Trump. Monica, go ahead.

MONICA CROWLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, LONDON CENTER FOR POLICY RESEARCH: Yes. Laura, look, we know that for a long time there has been a huge double standard that's operated against conservative and Republican women and in favor of liberal women and Democratic women.

The attacks on Melania Trump all the way down to her Christmas decorations take us to a whole other level. That's because she is married to Donald Trump. Donald Trump represents an existential threat to the elite ruling class and the existing order, which he ran on smashing that existing order and that's why he got elected.

Melania Trump is spectacular in every way and a dazzling representative of the United States particularly when she travels abroad. She did this beautiful display at the White House.

So, look, what they need to understand the Trumps and everybody in the White House, everybody in this administration is that no good deed by them will ever go unpunished. Therefore, they need to absorb that and learn from it and ignore and go on doing what they are doing.

This country has major issues, which this president and his team were brought in to try to solve from Iran, to North Korea, to taxes, to immigration to the wall. He is working diligently every single day to try to solve those problems.

And Vanity Fair and the left-wing media have nothing better to do than to that attack Melania Trump for her shoes and Christmas decorations. That is actually going to work in favor of President Trump's reelection. I would argue actually that kind of reaction by the mainstream media helped to get Donald Trump elected in the first place.

INGRAHAM: Julie, on the issue of going back to what Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton said in the sound bites. Essentially saying that, you know, women are being pressured into voting for Donald Trump. Women are voting against their own interests. I am a big girl. I find that pretty insulting.

Liberals are always pro-choice. If you choose to be a conservative pro-life woman and you don't vote straight Democrat, you have to be dumb because you are voting against aborting your own babies. That's wild that they said that.

ALVIN: I disagree with you. Saying that women voted against their own interest in voting for Donald Trump is --

INGRAHAM: With a strong economy, a roaring economy?

ALVIN: It's a defensible position because, for example, the health care act that Donald Trump tried to pass through the Senate had a lot of cuts that would have pertain specifically to women. It would have slashed the Women, Infants and Children Program that helps poor --

INGRAHAM: Lowering premiums?


ALVIN: -- discussion separately, but he also reversed an executive order that would have put in parental protections and would have dismantled some of the problems--

INGRAHAM: Do you think a growing economy, Julie, is good for women? We have a rise in the economy that we haven't seen in many years. Stock market is at an all-time high. Is that good for women?

ALVIN: A rise in the economy is good for everyone and as you can see, if you follow kind of that slope… the economy has been doing better and unemployment has been going down in 40 years not just during this --

INGRAHAM: So, wages are actually going up now for middle-class people, blue collar workers, men and women, do you think that's good for women?

ALVIN: Yes, absolutely, that's good for women, but I don't that's the only factor and I also think that some of those changes were already happening during the Obama administration.

CROWLEY: Well, Laura, what you are hearing from Julie and what you hear from the left is the result of identity politics. The left and the Democratic Party have engrained in women now for decades, right.

That they only need to vote on abortion or certain so-called women's issues that the left has defined over all of this period of time. I find that incredibly insulting. When I heard Hillary say, I mean, I'm a woman. I didn't need to be lectured. I can make up my own mind. I happily and proudly voted for Donald Trump.

What we are seeing now is that Donald Trump has created a whole new cross coalition. He has actually started this major realignment or at least has ridden the tiger of this realignment where now you have women.

You have all kinds of different constituencies saying wait a minute, we are rejecting that kind of identity politics. We will use our own heads to vote.

INGRAHAM: Three people for their ideas and the substance and then move from there. The identity politics, the political crisis -- I think more people are sick of it than are even --

CROWLEY: Yes. It's collapsing, which is why we have Donald Trump.

INGRAHAM: Julie and Monica, it's great to have you both on. Thank you very much.

Coming up, Grammy nominations dropped today and while the country grapples to contain sexual harassment and abuse allegations, this year's top nominees are singing a different tune, at least in of their lyrics what they are saying. We will share that with you and what it's all about when we return.


INGRAHAM: The Grammy nominations were announced today and they are a doozy. Taylor Swift and Sheeran were snubbed with only four noms between them while those nominated for record of the year have created some of the most profane and misogynistic music I have ever heard anywhere.

At the top of the heap, Jay-Z nominated for his, "The Story of OJ." We haven't heard enough of O.J. We need a whole album devoted to it. And Kendrick Lamar for his album entitled "Humble."

Here's former President Obama singing the praises of some of these Grammy nominated artists.


FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Kendrick and Jay-Z, those guys are doing just doing amazing work. Jay-Z is still the king. I mean, he has a track record.


INGRAHAM: Do you really think Obama listens to Jay-Z? Trying to hang cool with the kids. I don't think he listens to this stuff. Are their lyrics of Kendrick and Jay-Z, multi-millionaires, incredible entrepreneurs as they are, what our kids need to be hearing? What is the cultural impact of all of this.

Joining us now to weigh in on this, someone who knows just a little bit about this genre of music is Datwon Thomas, the editor-in-chief of VIBE magazine and he joins us now. All right, Datwon, I need to hear from you. I am a music fanatic. I love music. Listen to everything. I am more of a kind of Al Green and Ray Charles.


INGRAHAM: That's my stuff that I love, but I love all music. Tell me why when you are talking about Jay-Z and Kendrick Lamar, why is that music particularly good for young men today of any race, of any background?

THOMAS: It's particularly good because they speak to those that they don't a chance to be heard in situations like this. When you think about young black men and being targets for so many years, and not having a voice to be able to show some kind of strength and power and empowerment.

These are the voices that are there for us. Jay-Z has been one who made it from the streets to the stock market to the board rooms and presidents, of labels and things of that nature.

And then Kendrick is on his way as well being an incredible lyricist and he's turning into business. So, these are actually really good icons to look up to.

INGRAHAM: Let's talk about -- obviously, Jay-Z as a kid, a cocaine dealer and stabbed someone in the neck.

THOMAS: There's a lot of things going on here, Laura.

INGRAHAM: You're right. He's an unbelievable businessman, worth like half a billion dollars. Let's look at what some of the lyrics are and what they say to young people. We heard your description of why this might be good for people to express themselves.

Here's a sample of Jay-Z's lyrics. It's cleaned up for your consumption. This is from the story of O.J. "Light n-word, dark n-word, faux n-word, real n-word, rich n-word, poor n-word, house n-word, field n-word. House n-word, don't f -- with me. I'm a field n-word with shined cutlery."

Here's a little something from Kendrick Lamar's record. It's called "Humble" and "D' USSE with my boo bae, tastes like Kool-Aid for the analysts/Girl, I can buy you a-word the world with my paystub, that p-word good, won't you sit it on my taste bloods."

THOMAS: It's unfortunate that you guys picked only those particular lines and not the more uplifting and supportive lyrics that they all put out. The Jay-Z line, those are actually speaking to what we are discussing now.

No matter how far Jay-z goes or achieves within mainstream eyes, he will always be looked at as what he was saying. That's the story of O.J. O.J. tried to denounce being black. The next thing you know he is crucified by the same people that he was trying to impress.

INGRAHAM: Are you also defending O.J. still?

THOMAS: No, I'm not defending him. I am defending Jay-Z's actual music for being able to say what he is saying throughout those verse. Real quick. With Kendrick's lyrics, what he is trying to get across there is speaking to a woman or speaking, you know, the audience in a way --

INGRAHAM: It's objectifying a woman, is not? I could go through almost every song.

THOMAS: That's in country lyrics and rock lyrics.

INGRAHAM: The p-word?

THOMAS: You have not heard them.

INGRAHAM: Not in the country music hall-of-fame. No, no.

THOMAS: You have to understand this is creative license. They are able to do that.

INGRAHAM: A lot of things are creative. I am not saying people don't have a right. They can speak on the street corner and swear in front of my kids.


INGRAHAM: They can use the n-word.

THOMAS: And Trump can do the same thing on TV.

INGRAHAM: Let me finish. This is not just hip hop. This is the country. My point about this is don't we want to really lift people up?

THOMAS: But you have to hear the other songs. You have to take the whole project rather than bits and pieces that work for your agenda.

INGRAHAM: The whole project is faith, fatherhood, country, sacrifice and giving of yourself. I know a lot of these guys do give a lot to charity --

THOMAS: He gives back. Those are the things that need to be highlighted as well if you're going to put these things together in a balance ethics.

INGRAHAM: I listened to both albums and I listened to them several times and --

THOMAS: That's crazy because you called Kendrick's album humble and the name is Damn.

INGRAHAM: OK, I am not perfect. But what I'm trying to make is lifting people up in difficult circumstances, I don't think a single kid, who is a gang banger in Chicago will say, hey, I can be just like Jay-Z if I use this kind of language?


THOMAS: His success is enough for them to do that. They are the shining examples of what their condition is and what they can get out of that environment.


THOMAS: No, not money. Influence. Jay-Z is employing dozens of people sometimes hundreds as well as Kendrick. They must think highly of these individuals as creative icon. They are nominated in record numbers. You have 22 Grammys says there is something good in this music.

INGRAHAM: Do you think anyone will be performing any of this music 25 years from now?

THOMAS: They are doing it now. Hip hop is over 40 years old and they are still doing it.

INGRAHAM: At Super Bowl halftime show? I don't think so.

THOMAS: Go to one of the concerts with me.

INGRAHAM: OK. I will do that. We can go down to Nashville and see great stuff together.

THOMAS: We have a date.

INGRAHAM: You are fun, Dawton. I like it. Thank you so much for joining us. The media is salivating as a former top Trump aide may flip against the president and get in the Russian collusion narrative. A possibility or fake news? Dershowitz will discuss with THE INGRAHAM ANGLE when we come back.


LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Welcome back. Much of the mainstream media has been in a lather at the prospect that former national security advisor Mike Flynn may flip against his former boss President Trump. Just look at some of these headlines. ABC News, "Flynn's lawyer meets members of special counsel's team, raising specter of plea deal." "Vanity Fair," "Has Mike Flynn already flipped on Trump?" "New York Times," "A split from Trump indicates that Flynn is moving forward to cooperate with Mueller."

Is that actually the case? Joining us now renowned legal expert, Harvard law prof emeritus Alan Dershowitz. Hi, Professor Dershowitz, how are you?


INGRAHAM: Is this really, it seems like the way it's being portrayed, it's the end for Donald Trump. The impeachment gallows are waiting for him. Mike Flynn because of his work with perhaps what he did with Turkey might somehow mean he is flipping on Trump. What could be going on here?

DERSHOWITZ: I think if he were actually flipping on Trump and if he had made a deal with Mueller, we would never know about that. Nobody would like that information. Part of the deal would be that you would have to keep this absolutely secret.

I think the question nobody has been asking is who has leaked this, and why have they leaked this? I know his lawyer by reputation. And what his lawyer I think is doing is offering his client for sale or at least for rent. What he is saying is, he is up for grabs. If the Trump administration wants him, they can have him. Just give him the pardon. And if the Trump administration doesn't give him a pardon, we are available to make a deal with the special counsel.

But I don't think the special counsel is ready to make a deal yet because it's not clear that Flynn has anything to offer. First of all, his credibility is worthless. He has already been accused of perjury. Second, he is a witness that has been bought or at least rented. Any descent defense attorney could shred him by saying he'd sell you his mother. He is trying to save his son, he's trying to save himself. He will say anything. He will not only sing, he'll compose and create evidence if he has to do that in order to get a deal. So I don't think we are anywhere close to where the media has portrayed Flynn and a deal with Mueller.

INGRAHAM: And all these months later, all this time later, they are bringing in people, more people from the Trump campaign including Hope Hicks and the White House counsel, Professor Dershowitz. And people have to understand that the White House counsel does not share an attorney privilege with the president.

DERSHOWITZ: Not a personal privilege. They do share an institutional privilege.

INGRAHAM: Executive privilege, yes. But what could that pose as far as problems for the administration, Don McGahn, the White House counsel?

DERSHOWITZ: I think the administration is not aggressive enough with Mueller. They should be in court challenging what Mueller has been doing. He is going so far beyond any possible scope of his investigation.

For example, there were reports that they were investigating whether Jared Kushner tried to get the United States to change its policy toward Israel, the Obama administration, which was allow the resolution condemning Israel for occupying the Western Wall, the holiest place in Judaism. Let's assume that Jared Kushner did that. He should be praised for it. There is nothing criminal about that. What is Mueller doing investigating whether or not somebody during the transition was trying to influence American foreign policy to the benefit of the American people?

So I think the Trump administration ought to be more aggressive in challenging the scope of this investigation, challenging subpoenas, challenging who is called as witnesses. This is supposed to be a narrow investigation about whether or not there was illegal, unlawful collusion with Russia. Collusion itself is not a crime. But now what they are doing is going after people for what is the equivalent of jaywalking. Did they sign the right form? Did they include this in the form? That's all an attempt to try to squeeze them into testifying against the Oval Office.

INGRAHAM: Yes, put them in the big vice and turn the vice around. But why are they not being aggressive? This Ty Cobb guy, I'm not sure I'm wild about Ty Cobb representing the president.

DERSHOWITZ: He's a good lawyer.

INGRAHAM: Isn't he the guy who was eating at the restaurant and talking loudly about strategy and so forth.

DERSHOWITZ: Lawyers shouldn't be doing that. He has a very good reputation as a good lawyer. And no lawyer should be second guessing their strategy without knowing what is actually going on. But it's so obvious that Mueller is going well beyond the scope of what his authority is. I read the letter authorizing his investigation. And what he has done and some of the witnesses he pulled and some of what he has subpoenaed, he is no subpoenaing things that are so far beyond the scope of the investigation.

INGRAHAM: But why is Ty Cobb or the president's legal team not challenging this?

DERSHOWITZ: That's the question. That's the question. And also, look, the other point we heard is that Flynn has stopped cooperating. Was he ever cooperating with the Trump administration? Was he ever trading information? I have to tell you, if I were Trump's lawyer I wouldn't give Flynn one bit of information because you know there is always the possibility that he will flip. So I think this story has a lot yet to be revealed.

INGRAHAM: Alan Dershowitz, great to see you. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

DERSHOWITZ: Thank you.

INGRAHAM: And a question -- since when is it racist for a president to stand in front of another president? In today's world, that's when. You're not going to believe this story when we come back. Don't go away.


INGRAHAM: So is it really racist to have a painting of Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office. First Senator Elizabeth Warren accused President Trump of racism for jokingly calling her Pocahontas yesterday. Come on, get over it, Elizabeth. Then media outlets piled on, alleging it was even racist to have such a ceremony in front of "Old Hickory." "The Washington Post" informs us that President Andrew Jackson was also called "Indian killer." CNN turned to their expert and said, well, he's not a historian but an entertainer, to explain why that is the case.


D.L. HUGHLEY, ACTOR AND PRODUCER: He clearly is a racist. And to pretend like he is not -- yesterday he was honoring Native Americans in front of a portrait of Andrew Jackson who was killed sharp knife. He killed tons of Indians. So he can't pretend. It wasn't just a slur. It was that he did it in front of somebody who murdered -- the trail of tears was based on the guy that was behind him hanging in the portrait.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The constant defense is, that's not what he means. The Andrew Jackson thing, he in no idea about it.

HUGHLEY: Then he is too dumb to be president.


INGRAHAM: I'm sure he went right off Wikipedia to find out about the trail of tears. Joining us now to set the record straight is presidential historian, author of the fabulous book, so many of them, "Reagan Rising" and "Citizen Newt," Craig Shirley, along with Elizabeth Warren's conservative challenger, he is an independent, self-described real Indian, MIT scientist, Shiva Ayyadurai. Both of you, it's great to have you on. Craig, I've got to start with you. Andrew Jackson, it's one of the paintings up in the Oval Office. I've been in the Oval Office. It's one of my favorite paintings. It's a beautiful painting. Set the record straight here.

CRAIG SHIRLEY, HISTORIAN AND RONALD REAGAN BIOGRAPHER: Reagan also hung Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office.

INGRAHAM: Another racist.

SHIRLEY: Yes, exactly. Every president of the 19th century prosecuted the war against the American Indians. Abraham Lincoln who is cited as being an example for Trump also prosecuted. There were massacres in Minnesota. There were massacres in Colorado. There was a forced relocation. There were hangings of Indians. So Abraham Lincoln also. And even into the 20th century, Phil Sheridan who had been general of the Union Army coined the phrase, went out to go after Indians in the west, and he good the phrase the only good Indian is a dead Indian. Teddy Roosevelt said he agreed with that statement, but he might cut out one out of 10 Indians and give them some consideration.

INGRAHAM: So your point is? None of this criticism, they do it to Robert E. Lee. It's a white washing of history.

SHIRLEY: This is what is known as presentism.

INGRAHAM: Presentism?

SHIRLEY: Yes, the fallacy of imposing current morals and values on the acts of people in the past. It's arrogant and its' stupid and it's ignorant, and it proves no point other than the arrogance of present people making the charge.

INGRAHAM: You see this D.L. Hughley, entertainer, come on and he said tons of Indians were killed. Now we are measuring them in weight. But this is the level of ignorance on some of these other cable outlets that hold themselves out as high-and-mighty, by the way.

SHIRLEY: David McCullough said we are now into our third generation of historically ignorant Americans, and this gentleman proves it.

INGRAHAM: Shiva, I've got to go to you. You actually sent Elizabeth Warren something for her birthday. You are running against her as an independent. You call yourself the real Indian in the race?

DR. SHIVA AYYADURAI, U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: Yes, we've been saying, Laura, only a real Indian can defeat a fake Indian.


AYYADURAI: And that point that we're making, it hits at a very, very deep level. And it makes people chuckle, and the reason it makes people chuckle is because we are bringing out a very, very apparent truth that the liberal white elites, the white liberals don't want to discuss, and that's the following. If you look at what Elizabeth Warren has actually done, she shoplifted someone's identity. And then when it's exposed as President Trump did accurately, they throw tantrums and call people racist. In fact I was called a racist for exposing her and sending her the DNA test kit.


INGRAHAM: Wait, wait, wait. Shiva, first of all, you're like a triple PhD, biological sciences at MIT.

AYYADURAI: I have four degrees from MIT.

INGRAHAM: OK, that's all. So you are really smart. So you sent her a DNA test kit when she didn't acknowledge -- she didn't send a thank you note, I think she didn't do that.

AYYADURAI: I was very disappointed.

INGRAHAM: It was in the Sioux language. Get the code talkers in. But Shiva, I want to play for you, Elizabeth Warren takes issue with your claims against her Indian heritage, Native American heritage. Let's just review what she said to verify her Indian heritage. Let's watch.


SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASSACHUSETTS: I still have a picture on my mantle at home. And it's a picture my mother had before that, a picture of my grandfather. And my aunt Bee has walked by that picture at least 1,000 times, remarked that her father, my papaw, had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do.



INGRAHAM: That makes me laugh every time I hear it. But it's a serious point. She faked her minority status to enlist herself in the Harvard Law Director to get special privileges and special treatment. I don't care what she says.

SHIRLEY: It's also cultural stereotyping.

INGRAHAM: Every Indian has high cheekbones?

SHIRLEY: Isn't that a form of racism?

INGRAHAM: Is papaw a Cherokee term, papaw? I didn't know -- I'm not sure about that either.

AYYADURAI: I think the big issue here is you have someone who says that they fight for the working people, fight for the poor, fight for people of color, and she has exploited that for her own benefit. And this not about when they claim that President Trump is making this a racial slur, in fact she is the one who is a racist because, a, she took advantage of someone's race, she shoplifted someone's identity. And when it's exposed they start screaming and throwing tantrums like children. And that's a fundamental issue here.

And what's fascinating is Massachusetts is where the revolution took place. The irony is Massachusetts has now become the haven of the sewer that feeds the swamp in Washington, D.C. And what I see happening is in our defeating Elizabeth Warren, what we hope to do is to send a wave out that independents, everyday people, people who actually work for a living, innovators, entrepreneurs, businesspeople like President Trump --

INGRAHAM: Actually smart people.

AYYADURAI: Deserve to participate in governance.

INGRAHAM: Shiva, I love it. I love what you have done, I love your bravado. I love the fact that you sent her the DNA test kit.

AYYADURAI: It was her birthday. I gift wrapped it.

INGRAHAM: I want Craig to end this out. The racial obsession is not, as Joe Scarborough today said that he only defends white Anglo-Saxon Protestants, or something like that. He said he's obsessed with people who are not white, like criticizing them.

SHIRLEY: All the elites are obsessed with him.

INGRAHAM: They are obsessed.

SHIRLEY: Yes. It's a way of diverting attention. This is right out of the book "The Screwtape Letters." It's divert attention from things that are not important so you don't talk about things that are important like our failing public schools which can be laid at the feet of liberalism, or failing government, or all the other things --

INGRAHAM: Open borders, all of it.

SHIRLEY: And illegal immigration.

INGRAHAM: Craig, your book "Citizen Newt" was fabulous, learn a lot from the 1994 period. Shiva, it's great to see you. We will have both of you back.

And up next, Chicago is crumbling, but a pastor thinks he has a new way forward. Check this out when we come back.


INGRAHAM: Decades of Democratic political rule in Chicago have led to the second city's slow crumbling from the inside. So could faith be part of its renewal? A minister in Chicago just opened a 3,000 seat mega-church in the middle of the city, and he wants his church to be a sanctuary and a safe haven from allures of crime and violence. But can faith and this church succeed where the government has failed? A lot of liberals will doubt that.

But joining us now from Chicago is Pastor Horace Smith. Pastor, thanks for joining us. I was thinking about this today when I was reading about you. There are a lot of churches in Chicago. And you have Father Pfleger with St. Sabina's, I'm not a big fan of his, but he has his church. You've got Reverend Wright. Is he still kicking around? You've got a lot of churches, a lot of people trying. They have been unable to stem the violence. So how is yours going to be different?

BISHOP HORACE SMITH, PASTOR OF APOSTOLIC FAITH CHURCH IN CHICAGO: I don't think we are unique at all. I think that what we are doing is doing the part we should do where we are. My argument is this, that you are right. There are a lot of churches in Chicago, there are quarter of million churches in America. But the question is to the church itself, are we really doing what we should be doing to make a difference? And that's the key. We cannot turn things around by ourselves. But where we're located and what we're doing can be meaningful and impactful if we really represent what we preach about and then put our money where our mouth is. I think you will see a difference.

So every church has to look at its own self and say, what are we doing? Are we really doing the work we are called to do by Christ or are we doing something that's more of a social impact thing that just won't work?

INGRAHAM: I noticed that. Some friends of mine have remarked about some mega-churches seem more like it's performance art than it is about Christ the almighty, our Christian purpose, and so forth. It's fun, and it's fun to have people on stage and dancing and electric guitars and all of that. That's great, praise the lord. But the mentoring, what you need with especially these young boys, many of them are fatherless and have no role models. We just talked about this in the hip hop segment we did earlier.

SMITH: Right. That's the case that -- I am not against what you call the pop for the young people. Nothing is wrong with that. You do something to attract people. That's OK. But once they are attracted you must have real programmatic things that really hit at the heart of the matter. And it begins with our own example, the leaders of the church, the generations.

When we just opened this church. It's kind of a new church, we've been here 102 years, but its theme was crossing over with multiple generations. What we're saying is that there is a responsibility of each generation to the other. In many ways I think my generation, the one that preaches to me, in some ways we have really failed these young people. So we have almost blamed the victims. We put them in an environment that is negative, that's scarce of resources.

INGRAHAM: Isn't family, though, pastor, without family, without a family unit, especially a mom and a dad if possibility, a lot of single women doing heroic work, but without a father, it's hard. I am a single mom. I am very privileged, I'm very blessed, but a lot of kids are rudderless. They have nowhere to turn. And they go to the gangbangers and they go to all these influences and they can sell drugs easily to make a quick buck. And suddenly they find themselves are in prison. That is the nightmare of Chicago under Democrat leadership, sorry.

SMITH: Yes, but the church can make that difference. You couched it correctly. Without a father -- I grew up, my mother died when I was very young, 10 years of age. There were six of us. But my father stood up. My father was the role model. I saw him go to work every day as a cab driver then as a policeman. He modeled for me.

INGRAHAM: I knew it.

SMITH: He demanded of me -- I had no voice in my house. I was directed by my father.


SMITH: But the church can become that. The church has to step in where there is a lack, and again, mentorship, those kinds of things, and say, hey, we can be your father, we can be whatever you don't have and make a difference.

INGRAHAM: Pastor, I want to come to your church next time I am in Chicago. Is that a deal?

SMITH: I would love you to come and worship with us. That would be great.

INGRAHAM: I'm coming to hang with you. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you so much for joining us. I knew he had a great, dedicated dad, I just knew it.

And when we come back, not even --


INGRAHAM: Take a look at this Ben & Jerry's cartoon. It looks innocent, right? Look closer. Refugees, welcome! There better be some extreme vetting done with that cow on the front of that Ben & Jerry's cartoon. Refugees welcome? Immigration policy on ice cream, I don't get it.

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