Hillary Clinton: Bill would not have 'survived' if Fox News was around

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 20, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Oh, hello there. I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and she commutes using lady bug Uber, Dana Perino. "The Five."

A stunning admission, even Hillary Clinton confesses that the media kept her husband's presidency afloat when he and his unbuttoned trousers should have been sent packing.

At a Clinton Foundation event marking the 25th anniversary of the '92 election -- I wasn't invited -- she said Bill wouldn't have survived if Fox News was around.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our body politics immune system has been impaired because there has been a concerted effort starting with the creation of the Fox network. It wasn't there when Bill first ran. It was one of the reasons he probably survived.



GUTFELD: Boy, he looks thrilled. He's saying, "Please shoot me."

Now she makes this claim while many in the media now admit that Bill should have resigned after the Lewinsky scandal. So isn't Hillary agreeing with these new critics by saying FNC wouldn't have let Bill slide but the media monopoly did? So without knowing it, Hillary exposed the media's lack of guts while saluting Fox's. It's hilarious.

She also claims that Bill wouldn't have tweeted about his achievements as president. Someone should tell her Twitter wasn't around back then. Hillary, Twitter wasn't around back then. But what a blind spot she has to think that not tweeting makes Bill a man of sound character. He violated an intern in the Oval Office. Sorry, I'll take the tweeting instead.

Which raises a question: What if FNC and twitter have been around back then when Bill was president? How would that have change things? Twitter would have kept Bill busy and Fox would have kept him in line, and perhaps Hillary would have ended up president. How hilarious is that? If Fox News was around, Hillary would have been president.

Instead, Bill got away with all sorts of crap as the media covered for him. And now they call him on it years later only because there's no consequence. You can't throw a bum out that's been out for 17 years.

So Hillary, I'm glad you enjoyed the party at the Clinton Foundation. I hope Russia picked up the tab and someone besides Bill brought the cigars.

So Dana, isn't this the irony is that she's coming out against two things that, if they existed, probably would have paved the way for her presidency because if Clinton had been impeached and resigned, that would have given them more moral authority to go after somebody like Trump.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah. And also, I absolutely think that Bill Clinton would have used twitter if it had been around at the time.

GUTFELD: Absolutely, at least to pick up girls.


GUTFELD: He'll used tinder, twitter.


PERINO: It will be interesting to spend the weekend listening to a lot of commentary and reading people have sort of revisionist history of what it was like at 1997. I just remember very specifically for me. I was 23 years old. I was working for a member of congress. And I was sitting there watching this, and I'm like surely somebody is going to defend this woman, right? Surely they're not going to absolutely throw her under the bus. It never happened. And they're doing it now, and then you hear them say, well, things are different now. What is actually different?


PERINO: The only thing that's different is there's a different president in the oval office. Maybe the fact that we're like expose -- basically every media -- or technology sector, economic sector is affected by this problem of sexual harassment, but I always thought about that as a young girl, as an intern. It was his responsibility, and they all covered for him. And so now, in 1992, they're looking back, it can't be that people were so blind at the time, as if they're willfully blind.

GUTFELD: Yeah. It was not a big deal. Can we show another -- this is another clip of Hillary talking about Trump, which is hilarious.


CLINTON: Apparently, you know, my former opponent is obsessed with my speaking out. Apparently there was another, somebody told me, tweet today. Honestly, between tweeting and golfing, how does he get anything done? I don't understand it. So maybe that's the whole point.


GUTFELD: Well, you know what, Kimberly.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I don't think Bill like that.

GUTFELD: You know what, because she's saying, you know, he's tweeting and golfing, how does he get anything done? That's indirectly at Bill Clinton. If he had been doing other things, he wouldn't have been doing other people.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So if he golfed and tweeted more.

GUTFELD: More, if twitter existed he would probably not.

GUILFOYLE: Wouldn't have had idle fingers.


GUILFOYLE: . so to speak.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I wasn't thinking that, but I mean that's why it's good that there's five of us here at the table. I was watching Bill and his body language.


GUILFOYLE: Right away picked up the microphone.

GUTFELD: It was body Morse code.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. It was like help me.

GUTFELD: Help me.

GUILFOYLE: Help me. So he didn't love it. So he was picking it up and, you know, then proceeded to try to redirect and turn it around because he doesn't like when Hillary goes on these tangents. And also, he thinks, don't poke the President Trump cage and get him going and he'll start tweeting about us again. And he has no desire, no bid to have President Trump focus on him right now, I'll tell you that much

GUTFELD: Jesse, I think she insulted the media by saying she wished for the good old days when there was just a monopoly of patsies.

WATTERS: Right. I mean, Fox broke up the mainstream media monopoly and they haven't been able to get over it. Hillary reminds me of a corrupt dictator that rigs an election and then whine because she only gets 90 percent of the vote. It's not enough to get sent debate questions by CNN. It's not enough where Politico runs stories by you so you can approve them. I mean, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, all the newspapers, all the magazines, Facebook, twitter, Google, that's not enough? If that's not enough to carry Hillary over the finish line, maybe she didn't deserve it. And you're right, stunning admission. She is saying if Fox News was around, we would have been fair and balanced with the sex scandals. But she's also admitting that these sex scandals were a vast right-wing conspiracy, that the women accusing her husband had no merit. I think that's pretty sad.

PERINO: And they went after her -- or after them. I mean, there's a concerted effort to go after the women, which -- I guess, maybe -- maybe that is different now that hopefully we don't do that anymore.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Juan, do you think she's not aware about how the media are reconsidering their role in the 90's? That she just not followed that?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No. I mean, first of all, I just so strongly disagree with you, because it seems to me.

GUTFELD: I am not surprised.

WILLIAMS: Well, good, because that's why we have a show.


WILLIAMS: But I think -- I mean, what she said was so obvious to me. Guess what? The news media today, including Fox News, really caters to a specific portion of the political -- people who are interested in politics in this country. And so, you have people who will confirm preexisting biases in the media, whatever you're watching MSNBC, Fox News, or whatever. You tune in to your favorite talk radio host. That's not the way it worked these days. That's not the way it works back then. What she said was that currently in this media environment, people don't really care about the facts. They just want to hear something confirmed that's backed up, because the fact is.

GUTFELD: They didn't care about what he did.

WILLIAMS: That's not true. Bill Clinton was impeached. I don't know if you missed it.

GUTFELD: But the media said it was just an act.

WILLIAMS: No. Not only that, Fox News was around during the time of the impeachment, and Fox New was highly critical of Bill Clinton.

WATTERS: But they weren't around for Jennifer Flowers.

WILLIAMS: You're falling way back.

WATTERS: That's what Hillary is saying.


WATTERS: . he wouldn't have won the nomination.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think that's what she's talking about. I think she is talking about things like Monica Lewinsky. By the way, Monica Lewinsky had said that it was a consensual relationship. I think there was a great imbalance in terms of the power structure.

GUTFELD: Power structure, right.

WILLIAMS: Right. But it's not like the young woman was saying something wrong happened in her opinion to her personally. So.


GUILFOYLE: Set by Hillary Clinton to Monica and to all the other women. They all fell very personally wronged by Hillary Clinton.

WILLIAMS: There was criticism of Hillary for not leaving him, for not throwing his clothes out on the front lawn.

GUTFELD: I think she should have done that. If she did, she'll be president.

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

GUTFELD: She might beat Barack Obama.

WILLIAMS: But I know that this thing over the weekend started with Donald Trump. Donald Trump saying she was the greatest worst loser of all time, and then when she responds, you go after her. I don't get it.

WATTERS: No, Juan, it's like my little sister. She used to punch me, and punch me, and punch me all day, and when I finally hit her back, she'd go, oh, mom. Jesse hit me. You just counterpunch him.

GUILFOYLE: You hit her back?

WATTERS: I mean, lightly.

GUILFOYLE: Horrible human.

GUTFELD: Oh, this is coming out in the papers tomorrow.


GUTFELD: You've got nothing on Charlie Rose.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, great.


WATTERS: Does the Washington Post came out on Charlie Rose today?

GUTFELD: What 8 accusers -- for walking around naked in front of people.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'll tell you if you want to take the Democrats point of view though, Gregory.


WILLIAMS: . go to Kirsten Gillibrand.


WILLIAMS: . who is the senator from New York who took Hillary seat. I think she's been in the house two terms. And now, she is saying Bill should have quit. They should have thrown him out.

GUTFELD: But she could say that now because there's no consequence.

WILLIAMS: Oh, there is a consequence for Kirsten Gillibrand, because I think what you're seeing -- I mean, let me just tell you something, Bill Clinton is immensely popular.


WILLIAMS: Not only generally, but inside the Democratic Party. Very popular. I think his power and the power of Hillary Clinton is waning, which is why Donna Brazile, Kirsten Gillibrand and other can come out. But, boy, I'm just shock -- I don't know what this means for Kirsten Gillibrand's future here in New York City.

GUTFELD: I disagree. When you say that it means her future is up, and the Clinton dynasty is now a walking corpse.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's on purpose. I think the intention is to say, OK, listen, enough is enough of these folks, and we've got to move forward with the party. And unless we address the skeletons, which are pack with Clinton skeletons in the closet, they're not going to be able to do that. They want to have longevity. They're trying to get some elevation on the issue to say how do we persist forward despite these scandals and what's going on. Well, it's not going to be with the Clintons, and especially when you see now the coverage that it's actually getting that it should have before about Bill Clinton.

WILLIAMS: Do you think though it matters, Kimberly? Because, I mean, President Trump has his own issues and it doesn't matter to his backers.

GUILFOYLE: Well, there are people that made the allegations and they had investigations, and where did any of that, you know, go? I mean, except for the statement to Laura Bush.

WILLIAMS: No, I think there are lots of people still wondering when they'll get some justice in terms of charges against Donald Trump. And I don't think -- to his backers, they don't want to hear it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's going through the appropriate channels of due process to see what in fact will be adjudicated, and people that have made the claim.

WILLIAMS: I just worry that we're in such partisan times that people don't want to hear about somebody that they support.

GUTFELD: I think that we were in partisan times before Fox was around, and then when Fox came, it was like, oh, wait, there's another team that isn't actually, you know, holding the water for us. I think that's what she was saying.


GUTFELD: . it was so much easier having these patsies.

WATTERS: Right. She was saying that Fox's partisan and everybody else in the mainstream media just wants the facts, and that's not true.

GUTFELD: Last word for you, Dana.

PERINO: Well, just on the point of the allegations against Charlie Rose that have just come up from the Washington Post, I mean, we're at a point where there might be no one. There might be no bottom to this. We're all racing to the bottom of it, and we just might get there.

GUTFELD: Some faster than others.

PERINO: And you think you can pick up the paper and every day and it's somebody else. I think at some point the conversation has to turn to -- OK, then, what are we going to do in terms of some sort of reconciliation or something that says, OK, guys, so we've exposed you, like, me too. Everybody raised their hand like you're all exposed. Can we get to a point then where we say OK? So then, moving forward, here on out, we all agree that sexual harassment is wrong. And moving forward and see if we can try to get past this as a country.

GUTFELD: We're also learning that sexual harassment -- what do you call? Seminars. They're not working.

PERINO: Training?

GUTFELD: The training isn't working. They're looking at the research and they're going.

PERINO: So we don't have to go next year?

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

PERINO: Kidding. I'll be there.

GUTFELD: I attend four of them and they're all the same.

WILLIAMS: But don't you think they're intended to protect the company?

GUTFELD: Absolutely.


GUTFELD: That's what it is.


WATTERS: I don't think this congress have sexual harassment training?

PERINO: No, they're just starting it.

GUILFOYLE: They're saying it's more like proactive, like it's good for the company, but are you actually getting something that resonates, where there's like teachable moments and lessons that people embrace. And therefore, engage in a conduct change going forward that is positive and creates less of that environment.

WILLIAMS: So I'm not going to the Christmas party.


GUTFELD: I know. All right.


GUTFELD: I have the father of one UCLA basketball player arrested trying to sets off President Trump by downplaying his role to bring the trio Trump, next.


WATTERS: Three UCLA basketball players returned home from China last week after being accused of shoplifting, they've thanked President Trump for helping secure their release. The father of one of them, however, isn't as grateful. When asked about the president's involvement by ESPN, LaVar Ball said, who? What was he over there for? Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out. If he went to visit them in jail, then I would say thank you. That didn't go over well with the president. In a pair of tweets he wrote, now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail. Of course, some critics went wild over that. The White House said settle down. The president was speaking rhetorically.


SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, the president was -- it was a rhetorical response to a criticism by the father. Again, I think the president was happy to see the release of these individuals and have them back in the United States.


WATTERS: Now, was the president saying these three players really should have rotted in prison in China, no, right?

GUTFELD: This is him -- he gets maximum explosion for minimum effort. He's like so old school, like, I should have let you spend the weekend in jail. You get arrested on a Friday night and the parent could go -- you know what, you're going to spend the night, you're going to learn a lesson, but he's not going to do it. He's President Jackie Gleason. This is like for him, it's fun.


WILLIAMS: I've never heard that one, President Jackie Gleason.

GUTFELD: I'm so tired of my friends getting upset about these things because he's just having fun. He thinks about it for 5 minutes and the media thinks about it for five days and he moved on. Of course, he doesn't mean this. The other thing that kind of bug me was a lot of people reading race into this because his responding to two black athletes. It is called the fallacy of selective exposure. Every white politician he's attacked.


GUTFELD: He went after Flake too. He went after every white European leader on the planet. He's been after every guy in media at CNN, white female -- oh, at Fox News. He went after a few people who were white and female, and male and white. So the idea that he goes after the father of this basketball player or Lynch because they're black, that is a selected exposure fallacy, and you've got to let go of it because it's dishonest.

WATTERS: And Juan, everyone hates the father of Ball. This guy is the biggest troll. No one takes him seriously. He's kind of a joke. Shaq hates him. He's gone after Michael Jordan. He's a troll.


WATTERS: He trolled the president of the United States, and Trump hit back.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But to me, this is like, you know, Pears. I mean, they're both trolls, right? So they found each other. Love ever after.


WILLIAMS: I think that LaVar Ball understood that he could get under Trump's very thin skin, and Trump's delighted and responded. And so, they're both benefiting from this. I guess, Ball thinks he's advancing his $350 sneaker sales or something. But I disagree with Greg, you know, I think there is a big racial angle here because he doesn't go after white supremacists.


WILLIAMS: Oh, no. He picks who he responds to, Greg. I think it's very direct.

WATTERS: Well, Rosie -- as white as you can get, Juan. He went after her for about 6 years. Kimberly, what do you think of this fiasco?

GUILFOYLE: You know, this doesn't surprise me because, you know, Trump doesn't let a slight go. He sees something like this as an act of aggression and should be met with an act of aggression. He's sort of like that. He's like old school special ops. You hit me. I hit you back. And he said that.


GUILFOYLE: He told everybody that at the beginning. I'm a counter puncher. You know, you hit, I'm going to hit you back twice as hard. So why is this some big mystery that he needs to go to counseling about, like to figure it out, or get like the answer for the secret sauce? This is how he feels. He feels this guy was disrespectful. Greg's right. It's old school. It's hey, this is your neighbor who was like, oh, I wouldn't tolerate that. I mean, I got this kid out. They should be appreciative. It's about like respect. So he's not going to take it from this guy. But he's not a very popular guy because, you know, Shaq.

WATTERS: No, very unpopular.

GUILFOYLE: Very unpopular.

GUTFELD: Shaq doesn't like him.


WATTERS: Shaquille O'Neal, he's a basketball player.

PERINO: I got it. Tall guy, right?


GUTFELD: He also has soreness in his shoulder. He does that commercial a lot, you know, he's always rubbing his arms.

WATTERS: That's right. Do you think that he should have prep this one of these tweets with this may not be presidential, but, Dana?

PERINO: I think that's understood.


PERINO: I won't add to anything here, but I'm just going to back up. The president of the United States, whoever it is, they really don't want to have to ask the president of China to let go three people regardless of color for doing something that was clearly against the law, against the law in China, against the law here. Do you think President Trump really wanted to say, hey, sorry about that. That's like his first ask? Like, could you crack down on North Korea, and also let my three guys go. A little bit of humility which is what the young man expressed last week. I mean, they all said, thank you, we're embarrassed, we're ashamed, and we've got a second shot, it's good. The other thing is that the president of the United States, he asked for them to be released, OK? Not -- there wasn't a big exposure for people who are being held by China for no reason at all, and are having their human rights violated.

WATTERS: They've got special treatment.

PERINO: And so these guys, definitely -- in terms of like a little exposure, but when it comes to the tweets my rule is take the high road and let somebody else fight your battles for you.

GUTFELD: I can't reach the high road.

WATTERS: I want to talk about this guy Lynch, he's a player, running back for the Raiders, he was down playing a game in Mexico City, and instead of standing for the national anthem he sat, but then he stood for the Mexican national amber. People are very upset about this. Juan, what do you think?

WILLIAMS: I think what he did was very clear. He is protesting what he sees as social injustice, police brutality in the United States not Mexico. So he staged a protest against the United States in terms of the anthem, and I understand people who say, oh, it's about the anthem or the flag. That's not what he's about. He's about calling attention, using his platform as an NFL player to get people to pay attention to people who get injured or die and nothing gets done in the words of some others.

WATTERS: I don't like at all. I hate it. Gutfeld, what do you think?

GUTFELD: I'm going to steal a joke from Nick Gillespie and say that's when they should have started building the wall during that game.

WATTERS: Yeah, just keep them down there?

GUTFELD: Keep the Raiders.


GUILFOYLE: There's a lot of people that would agree with that. That is a consensus piece of legislation that could get approved.

GUTFELD: That might get the wall build.

GUILFOYLE: I know. And by the way, he's acting in true fashion like Raiders, that bad boy image.

WATTERS: That guy is a renegade. That's why gets fine so much.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And now he's like -- this is what he does.

WATTERS: Yeah, that's what he does.

GUILFOYLE: So I don't know if it so much that he's passionate about it in his heart, or he's just, you know.

GUTFELD: He's actually just a jerk.


GUTFELD: Can we just say he's a jerk?

GUILFOYLE: Does Shaw think he's a jerk? Shaq thinks he's a jerk.

GUTFELD: For the last national anthem he was stretching.

WATTERS: Until he signs with your team, the Niners, then you're going to love him.

GUTFELD: No, the Niners are dead to me. They're dead to me.

WATTERS: Well, they're dead to themselves.


WATTERS: All right. After another U.S. border agent is killed, President Trump renews his call for the wall, next.


GUILFOYLE: U.S. border agents put their lives in the line each day to protect our country. Tragically, one of them lost his life this weekend and another is hospitalized in serious condition after coming under attack in southwest Texas. Agent Rogelio Martinez was killed yesterday when responding to same kind of activity in the big bend area. His partner was hurt but survived. Details are still unclear. Authorities are hunting for the suspect. President Trump is vowing to seek out those responsible and bring them to justice. He also reiterated the need for the wall.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: As you heard, we lost a border patrol officer just yesterday. And another one was brutally beaten and badly, badly hurt. It looks like he'll make it but very, very badly hurt. And we talk about the wall -- we're going to have the wall. It's part of what we're doing. We need it. That's rough territory. That's where the drugs are coming in. A lot of things are happening along the border, the southern border. And we're going to straighten it out.


GUILFOYLE: Obviously, a very disturbing story, just the facts and circumstances still developing, you know, as we go to the news right now, Dana. But so you see the president, obviously, very upset about this, having a very genuine response. He's really had a -- even when he was campaigning, you know, reached out and had the support of the Border Patrol and the agents there, who have really had a very difficult path in terms of what they've been able to do, whether or not they've been understaffed. And coming under these attacks, where it's like, they literally don't know. They want to go home that night to their family.

PERINO: So there's also an award that the Texas governor, Greg Abbott, has put out. It's $20,000 for any information that leads to the arrest of the -- basically, the people that ambushed our -- our not military, but our Border Patrol agents.


PERINO: So then the question is, would a wall help in this particular area? I think that the wall, writ large, when they get down to business and start writing this legislation and having the discussion, I think it needs to be very clear that there's a lot of things that you can do on the security front, as the president has mentioned, a virtual wall in some places is going to be more practical, and it actually could help, probably, save lives of our Border Patrol agents before any actually structure can be built, because of just the terrain of that area.

So I would just advise them, as they start to figure out how they're going to ask Congress for the money to appropriate, that yes, it will be possible to have an actual structure in certain places, but to take the win, if they get sort of more border security and virtual wall type of equipment down there.

GUILFOYLE: So obviously, Jesse, it's still a very complex issue. There's a lot of resources that are needed. I mean, what are your thoughts? I think, you know, the more resources they have there, obviously, the better in terms of just, you know, men and women on the ground. To be able to patrol that area. I mean, a wall, some kind of physical obstruction, I think, makes it a little bit easier for their job in terms of making it more difficult for some of the menacing, you know, individuals that try to come over and violate the law.

WATTERS: It does. You know, when someone is killed with a gun, the left wants gun control. But when a Border Patrol agent is killed, you would think they would want border control. And all -- right now, assaults by illegal aliens on Border Patrol agents has hit an all-time high. Up 50 percent just from last year: 720 assaults on Border Patrol agents this year alone, not even counting September. And although border crossings are way down under President Trump -- I think they've only been a quarter million crossings last year. Last year was about a half a million.


WATTERS: It still shows that they're just pouring across, and the border is not secure.

Now, I have a border wall update. The contracting process has begun. Eight prototypes have been built. The concrete is settling. They start the testing phase next week. Some you can see through, greater visibility up on our side. They average between 18 and 30 feet high. And right now $20 million have been appropriated. But now, the big funding is being tied up, potentially, in the DACA negotiations...


WATTERS: ... which are going to come around Christmas.

GUILFOYLE: OK, and just to -- Juan, just on a point that Jesse meant, the reason why this is also so dangerous is that these Border Patrol agents work in two-man teams, and a backup can be hours away. And they're confronted by large numbers, because they know the math on it, that you've got two guys, and then therefore, they can, you know, overcome them.

WILLIAMS: OK. I mean, we have increased the number border agents astronomically. And we put in more of the type of equipment Dana was talking about: everything from drones to electronic surveillance. And all the rest.

But I think in this instance, and it's very tragic. Because he wasn't even shot. He was beaten to death. So this is a really horrible personal type of attack where you have anger and violence involved.

But I don't see why you would politicize it, then, as the basis for a wall when, as Jesse says, you know, crossings are down. In fact, they're a record down. And you've had 30 -- only 38 -- 38 -- agents involved in this kind of violence since '03. And one this year.

So is this a new justification for building a wall that nobody in the U.S. wants and nobody in Mexico is willing to pay for? Apparently.

WATTERS: Juan, 720 assaults on Border Patrol agents this year.

WILLIAMS: I don't know what's going on with that, so I don't have the background, Jesse.

WATTERS: The background is from the U.S. Border Patrol.

GUILFOYLE: Very vulnerable.

WATTERS: I don't doubt their statistics.

WILLIAMS: In terms -- in terms of people being killed, in terms of agents putting their lives on the line, as Kimberly was discussing, we've had one this year. It's just not a reason to say, "Oh, yes, we better rush to build. Change your opinion on the wall, America."


GUTFELD: Well, we know it's not an easy job. They are the nation's bouncers, border agents. They are the first person facing the external challenges.

This is the irony of this whole story. Politicians in sanctuary cities don't have to think about border agents. The actions of a border agent actually make the lives of the people in the sanctuary cities easier...


GUTFELD: ... because they don't get to the sanctuary cities and cause more problems.


GUTFELD: So that the border agent -- so if you took away these border agents because you felt it's mean, then your sanctuary cities will be more murderous than you could ever imagine.

We need to drag this country into a contemporary understanding of the border. The border isn't just about immigration. It's national security. The advent of terror plus technology is going to make it possible for one person -- one person -- to sneak across with a drone and bioterror married together and create havoc that will make 9/11 look smaller.

So we have to think about it in a bigger, more global way. It's not just about immigration. It's about our futures.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. We want to protect those that are serving our country and give them the resources that they need. And the numbers were woefully low, so now that's why we've had to hire more. More to be done.

And Charles Manson is dead after more than half a century behind bars. The evil, murderous legacy he leaves behind next.


WILLIAMS: One of America's most notorious killers, dead. Charlie Manson breathed his last breath last night. He died of natural causes at age 83 after nearly half a century behind bars.

Manson terrorized Los Angeles in 1969, when he committed his followers to kill actress Sharon Tate and six others. Geraldo Rivera interviewed the notorious cult killer in San Quentin back in the '80s.


CHARLES MANSON, LEADER OF CULT RESPONSIBLE FOR MASS MURDERS: Yes, you could use the word devil or demons, or whatever you want to call it.


MANSON: OK, I'll play. I'll play. There's no game I can't play.

RIVERA: People are saying you are the devil here.

MANSON: OK, I'll be the devil then.

RIVERA: You like that?

MANSON: I don't like or dislike nothing. I see everything as it is.


WILLIAMS: Wow. I don't even know how to think of somebody who would create a cult and order that someone go in and kill. And I mean, it wasn't just killing. It was violent, horrible stabbings and the like, Greg.

GUTFELD: He was the first identity politics terrorist. The point was to kill a bunch of white people and pin it on the Black Panthers. That's why they did that. That's why they wrote the stuff in blood on the walls. He was trying to create an apocalyptic race war.

The less said about him, though, is probably the better. The media devotes way too much ink on -- on the irrational fascination with evil. We see hours of forensic files in all these special documentaries.

Meanwhile, thousands of good people die every single day. They lead quiet, noble lives. The little old lady who slips in a bathtub that you don't ever hear about. The guy who gets hit by a bus, trying to meet his family.

Della Reese died today. A great woman.

GUILFOYLE: Wonderful. "Touched By An Angel."

GUTFELD: Yes, but this -- this touched by a devil here gets more ink than being "Touched By An Angel."


WILLIAMS: You know -- so let me talk to my California girl.


WILLIAMS: So what did you think of him and the idea there's now one of the people who participated in these murders, Leslie Van Houten, she's 69. But she had been pardoned. It's going to get up to the governor to decide whether or not to let her out. What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: I don't think she should get out. I don't think anybody associated with this, and participated as an accessory and accomplice with respect to these horrific murders should ever get out.

In fact, the man who trained me at at the Los Angeles district attorney's office, Stephen Kay, was one of the Manson prosecutors in these murders, in the Tate-LaBianca murders, along with Vincent Bugliosi. And he has faithfully, every time, been summoned and gone to fight on behalf of these victims, prevent these animals from being released. That history and time should not forget the misdeeds and the horrific crimes that they committed. You know, he spent so much time with him and said he's just an unbelievably horrifically evil individual that you could not even possibly imagine.

And so I don't think the right message is to pardon or to let people out.


GUILFOYLE: That is not the right form to show the deterrent to people to commit a crime like this. I'm so happy that this man died in -- you know, in jail. And was never released. And it was not easy, believe me. They had to fight hard to be able to keep him in, if you can imagine that. Because otherwise, you would never think in a million years, like, anyone would have a quarrel with keeping somebody like this in. You know?

WILLIAMS: So Jesse, in reading about this, some things just jumped out at me. One is, he went -- I mean, he was born from a prostitute, doesn't know his father, takes his stepfather's name.

Then you get into a situation where he is hanging around with Dennis Wilson of The Beach Boys and Terry Melcher, who was a record producer. He thinks he has musical talent, doesn't get picked up. And that's why he goes to that house where Roman Polanski lived with Sharon Tate.

And by the way, he was a big fan of Dale Carnegie. That's how he learned the principles that he used to create the cult. It's amazing.

WATTERS: Yes, he's a mentally ill maniac. He said -- this is a killer quote -- "I am crime."

Geraldo, you know, hats off to him, got him on tape right there in prison saying, "I am the devil." I think to what Greg was saying, I think it's good sometimes when you spotlight evil. Not all the time but just to look evil in the eye to see what it is so you really know what good is.

And it also goes to show a mind control, the amount of mind control he had over these cult followers. And you're always, you know, taking these psychedelic drugs. The power he had over them was just phenomenal.

GUILFOYLE: And over so many women...

GUTFELD: Don't knock the drugs.

GUILFOYLE: ... like Greg said.

GUTFELD: And they were mostly women, and that's always been an interesting element to cults. Is that women are attracted to -- some women who are naive or gullible are attracted to that kind of thing.

WILLIAMS: OK, so Dana, I have a challenge for you.


WILLIAMS: You're a sweet soul. And I wonder if you can tell us what you would say nice about someone like this who just died.

GUILFOYLE: No way. Don't take the challenge.

PERINO: Can't do it.

GUTFELD: Good food for maggots.

PERINO: Yes, maybe, I guess. But I would say that spotlighting this evil, when I was a kid. And he scared the crap out of me. I was terrified of cults, of mind control and of the evil. And I think that at least knowing about it helped me, you know, at least navigate a little bit more, of all that stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Agreed. Me, too.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Great point.

WILLIAMS: Love him or hate him, somebody must've been the first person to take a selfie. Well, guess what? Paris Hilton thinks it's her. But there's lots of photographic evidence that seems to prove otherwise. Hmm. Next.


PERINO: A very important question for you now. Who do you think invented the selfie? Paris Hilton has set the Internet on fire after claiming she and Britney Spears did 11 years ago, posting these pictures from 2006.

Many are taking issue with that claim. Here's some photographic evidence.

Thelma and Louise took one back in the '90s. Colin Powell posted this snapshot from the 1950s. But perhaps the oldest existing selfie is from the 1800s taken by a photographer named Robert Cornelius. And that is in Jesse's home town of Philadelphia.

WATTERS: And his collar's up. I love that.

GUILFOYLE: Stylish. Maybe you're, like...

WATTERS: Stylish guy, that Cornelius.

GUILFOYLE: ... reincarnated from him.

WATTERS: I hope so.

PERINO: I like the name Cornelius.

WATTERS: I do, too.

Now I learned how to take a selfie. I was watching E! one time. And Kim Kardashian said you're supposed to hold it high and at a 45-degree angle. Not in front. High and at a 45 degree. High and at a 45 degree. Like that.

GUTFELD: Story of my life.

WATTERS: Everybody, pay attention.

GUILFOYLE: Did she figure that out?

PERINO: What do you think? I mean, Paris Hilton, basically, she doesn't - - might as well claim it.

GUILFOYLE: By the way, I mean, kind of she was the one that started it all up again, I mean, no disrespect to your...

WATTERS: Cornelius.

GUILFOYLE: ... doppelganger Cornelius there.

WATTERS: Yes, I hope I'm in the will.

But she was the one doing it all the time and people started, really, like this incessant thing with selfies. And then remember the selfie stick?

PERINO: Yes. Juan has one of those. Right, Juan?

WILLIAMS: No, in fact, that was going to be my thing, because you just -- you walk down the street in New York, right, and especially now with the holiday season, these people have these sticks. They're wielding them. They don't have any consciousness of somebody else.

PERINO: You've got to have respect if you have the stick.

GUILFOYLE: See, Juan's old-school.

PERINO: What do you think?

GUTFELD: OK, let's be honest here. Paris Hilton did not invent the selfie. She invented the sex tape. If we don't -- we probably don't remember that, because every day now we have a scandal. So we used to only get one scandal a year. Remember? It would be one scandal. And that was one of them.

Now every day we have an avalanche of impropriety. The difference is it's not Paris Hilton. It's Charlie Rose and -- and Al Franken. I mean, just thinking of that makes me nauseous.

WATTERS: You long for the days of the Paris Hilton scandals.

GUTFELD: ... for the days when the people with sex scandals...

PERINO: OK, well, Glenn Thrush.

GUTFELD: And Glenn Thrush.

PERINO: Don't forget.

GUTFELD: Yes. They're all creepy men.

PERINO: Tune in tomorrow morning when we'll have 20 more to talk about. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: Jesse, "One More Thing."

WATTERS: All right, we're getting breaking news. President Trump is going to issue a pardon tomorrow, just getting this in. It's of a turkey, though.

So the annual White House Thanksgiving turkey pardon will be tomorrow. You guys didn't like that joke?


WATTERS: OK. Papadopoulos and Manafort are the names. Just kidding. The names are Wishbone and Drumstick. And they're actually putting them up in a little hotel here. And they're going to be pardoned in the Rose Garden tomorrow. And you can go to the White House Twitter feed and vote on who do you think should be pardoned, Wishbone or Drumstick. Cast your votes.

GUTFELD: All right.


PERINO: All right. So there's an Indian man named Souschous (ph)...


PERINO: ... Dixit (ph)? OK?

GUTFELD: OK, very good.

PERINO: I mean, actually, his name is pronounced something else, but I can't say it.

He has declared himself king. He has -- drove from India to between Egypt and Sudan. There's this 800-square-mile area known as Biertawil (ph), and it is unclaimed land. And basically, if you throw some seeds on the ground, you can declare yourself king. And so other people have tried it but nobody has been able to persevere. He's saying that he will and that he will write an email to the United Nations about his kingdom. He has created a Facebook page and is seeking people to invest.


PERINO: You can actually invest in the kingdom.

GUTFELD: I'm there. I'm going to do that. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK, well, I have a very special "One More Thing." Because Ronan, my little Ro-Dog, was in the championship football game this weekend with the Titans, and they crushed it. There's Ronan running. Great athlete. God bless him. And he's there also, his dad and his godfather. And then he scored the first touchdown of the championship game.

WILLIAMS: Oh, great.

GUILFOYLE: And I was very excited with his cousin Leo there.

GUTFELD: Is that touch?

GUILFOYLE: It's flag football. See, there he is.

GUTFELD: Flag football. Very good.

WILLIAMS: Good sport.

GUTFELD: Excellent cinematography, I might add.

GUILFOYLE: There you go.

PERINO: Congrats, Ronan.

GUILFOYLE: Good job, Ronan.

GUTFELD: All right, Juanzo.

WILLIAMS: Kaboom! The 25-year-old Georgia Dome was imploded this morning. It took 5,000 pounds of explosives to blow up the 71,000-seat stadium in only 15 seconds.



WILLIAMS: You probably know it as the longtime home of the Atlanta Falcons, the NFL team. But you know what? It also housed two Super Bowls, the 1996 Olympic basketball tournament, three Final Four NCAA basketball tournaments. And now replaced by the $1.6 billion Mercedes-Benz Stadium right next door. The new ballpark, fit for a king with a retractable roof and a giant steel sculpture of a falcon.

I think we build stadiums, no longer cathedrals.

GUTFELD: That is so true, Juan. And you know what? I am going to elaborate further on what you just talked about.

The Weather Channel had actually covered this event, this implosion of the Georgia Dome. And they actually had a camera set up to watch it. So have you ever been here before? So they've got the camera set up. Everything is good to watch the implosion. It's going to be great. Everything is perfect, and then as it's about to happen. You've got your three, your two, your one.

WILLIAMS: The bus.

GUTFELD: The bus pulls up, blocks it.

WILLIAMS: I heard that beep.

GUTFELD: Bus driver has got the best -- he's got the best view. And the guy -- and the Weather Channel guy, you can hear, is actually swearing.

By the way, since when did the Weather Channel cover implosions of buildings?

GUILFOYLE: But how nuts is that?

PERINO: How about the Market bus? It's like...

GUTFELD: It's -- yes, the guy has no idea. He's just doing his job.

GUILFOYLE: He's got to get the tape from the people that were on the sidewalk. That's the thing.

GUTFELD: Why do we like it when buildings implode?

WILLIAMS: Man, it's so much fun.

WATTERS: I love it.

GUTFELD: They do it so that it just falls directly down and nobody gets hurt.

GUILFOYLE: You've got to see when they do that in Los Angeles, and it's like some of the old hotels, and they build new ones and they detonate them. It's pretty cool.

WILLIAMS: You know what? They had to put up a huge wall, though, like a blanket...


WILLIAMS: ... to keep the old stadium from damaging the new stadium.

WATTERS: I thought walls didn't work, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. For you, it would have been Mexicans, right?




WATTERS: I just want to hear you say "kaboom" one more time.

WILLIAMS: I like it. Did you like that?

WATTERS: Say it one more time.

GUTFELD: Guess what? Kaboom.


GUTFELD: Guess what? Kaboom. I'm going to keep saying it. Anyway, we've got about 30 seconds left. I thought that Kimberly's son did quite a job on that football game.


PERINO: What are you eating for dinner tonight?

GUTFELD: I -- well, I had Chinese food this afternoon, so I can't have Chinese food again.

PERINO: No, you can't double.

GUILFOYLE: Please don't.

PERINO: Never double dip on Chinese food.

GUTFELD: All right. Never set -- never set your DVRs. Never do it.


GUTFELD: Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report." Bret, over to you. Bretso.

WATTERS: Hey, Bretto.

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