This is a rush transcript from "The Story," August 15, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" HOST: Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum. Tonight, we will take you through the stories that are tugging at the fabric of our nation on this August evening. Today the president got up to Trump Tower to discuss rebuilding our infrastructure -- he did that for a little while. Originally, the plan was not to take any questions, but that quickly changed as he sought to make clear his assessment of the march, the fighting, and the death in Charlottesville.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious, and it was horrible, and it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side you can call them the left. You just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So, you can say what you want, but that's the way it is. I think there's blame on both sides.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, the struggle that he is talking about is still playing out across the south in ways like this. Will tearing down monuments heal or hurt in the long run? We're going to cover the fierce debate over history throughout our hour tonight. Ben Shapiro, Mollie Hemingway, and Jehmu Greene will join me in a moment to talk about the president this afternoon, and all of that that it entails. Also, the president did speak today about his strategist, Steve Bannon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I like Mr. Bannon. He's a friend of mine. But, Mr. Bannon came on very late, you know that. I went through 17 senators, governors, and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, what is the meaning of that statement today from the president? Will the man who helped him win the White House, in part, be the next to go? We're going to get to that ahead. But we want to start tonight with another important update on a story that was dominant in recent days. And the story was that the president may have taken us to the brink of war with North Korea. So days later, Kim Jong-un appears to have backed down. And, yet today at that news conference that you just saw, it was not one question about that. Trace Gallagher, live in our West Coast Newsroom tonight with the breaking details. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Martha, for the time being, it appears Kim Jong-un has backed away from launching missiles, and is back to launching insults saying that he is now watching the foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees and that "the U.S. should stop at once arrogant provocations against the DPRK and unilateral demands and not provoke it any longer." Although Kim, the younger, does say he is reserving the right to change course and, "wring the wind pipes of the Yankees." Exactly why Kim Jong-un decided to back pedal is unclear, but experts say there two reasons: one, the rhetoric -- not the fire and fury comments made by the president last week but the more tempered comments he and his national security team made this weekend, including an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal co-authored by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis that appeared to dial things down a notch.
Experts say, the second reason Kim backed down is China, which is North Korea's only ally and main trading partner. Yesterday, China banned the import of North Korea's most lucrative products, including coal, iron, lead, and seafood. And China wasn't just threatening the North's economy. Here's former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I think the North Koreans, in particular, paid attention to what the Chinese said indirectly a few days ago, that if the United States retaliated against the North Korea attack, they would stand back. So, in other words, North Korea, if you go after Guam or something else and the U.S. comes after you, you are on your own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Analysts say, South Korea also played a part in the dial down by reiterating its belief that there will be no attack on North Korea unless Seoul gives the go ahead. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you. Here with more tonight: Lt. Col. Michael Waltz, former Green Beret commander and a Fox News contributor; and Jamie Metzl, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and Author of "Eternal Sonata." Welcome, gentlemen. Good to have you all here. Michael Waltz, let me start with you. Does it appear that what the White House did here worked?
LT. COL. MICHAEL WALTZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER GREEN BERET COMMANDER: Well, Martha, finally someone stood up to the school yard bully and punched back. And I think what we've seen for decades here is that the North Koreans weren't used to that. I mean, look at the recent op-ed from former National Security adviser Susan Rice, who said we just need to get used to it. We just need to accept that North Korea is going to have a nuclear arsenal and be able to hold the region and the United States, hostage.
So, I think that was incredibly effective. But, we cannot get complacent. We cannot rest on our laurels. We have to maintain pressure on China. The North Koreans are very good at ratcheting up tensions, and then ratcheting them down and staying just below that threshold of war. Meantime they're buying time to improve their ICBMs, to get more on mobile launchers, to go from liquid fuel to solid fuel, which means they can launch faster and even develop a submarine capability. So, we have to keep the pressure up.
MACCALLUM: I mean, it's clear that this is far from over. But, Jamie, let me turn to you. Because I can't remember a time when we saw this sort of dynamic where you have China banning some of the major imports that North Korea sends to them. And that combined with the threat that China says, we don't have your back. If they come after you, we don't have your back. That's different.
JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW AT THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL AND AUTHOR: It's not that different. Basically, the United States lost this exchange with North Korea over the last week. Just think about it, where were we one week ago? We already had five rounds of sanctions by the United States against -- and the U.N. against North Korea. Now, we have a sixth. It's very much a continuation of the policy. North Korea was never going to attack Guam.
And so, we've had this whole exchange where the president of the United States comes down, for the first time ever, comes down to the rhetorical level of the leader of North Korea, and we're hurling insults back and forth.
And then, at the end of the week, people are saying, oh, it's this big victory that North Korea didn't attack Guam. They were never going to do that because that would be suicidal, and they've known that for 70 years. I don't know why people are saying North Korea blinked because North Korea won this exchange and we'll see what happens next.
MACCALLUM: Michael, what do you think about that?
WALTZ: Well, I think -- you know, frankly, I disagree. You know, look, the North Koreans are used to this kind of passive approach. Look, the entire world over the last eight years was used to a passive approach, whether it was Russia, whether it was Putin, you know, you name it. They were used to, basically, the United States back pedaling, and I think at this point we made a stand and we took a stand. And I think it took the president of the United States to make that -- to have that kind of shock and awe rhetoric, so to speak, to change the Chinese calculus and to change the North Korean calculus.
Look, until this point, the Chinese and the North Koreans believe that they have to have an arsenal in order to -- basically, for the regime to survive. Now, I think there is a growing question in that part of the world on whether if they get an arsenal, will they survive? And the Chinese, I hope, you know, it remains to be seen because they have played us before. But the Chinese may now be seeing the North Koreans as more of a problem than they're worth. But we have to maintain the pressure; they have both done this before.
MACCALLUM: I think both things were true. I mean, I don't think we've seen this behavior from China in quite this way. And we also know that the game will continue and it goes on but has the chess board shifted a little bit in this dynamic? And that may be something that is due to the moves that we've seen from the Trump administration. So, in terms of Iran, a quick thought on that. Jamie, Rouhani has said he would turn the power back on to the Iranian nuclear program in a heartbeat if we follow through with these sanctions.
METZL: Well, the United States is pushing forward with sanctions because North Korea -- I mean, sorry, because Iran has violated U.N. Security Council Resolutions on ballistic missiles.
METZL: If Iran chooses to withdraw from the nuclear accord, that's their decision and then the sanctions will automatically slap back. And so, that is something that, it's up to them to take that decision. If they do, there will be consequences.
MACCALLUM: Michael, quick thought.
WALTZ: Well, look, the Iranians can't have it both ways. On the one hand, they want their ballistic missile program, the American hostages that they've taken, the terrorism they're supporting across the region to be outside of the nuclear agreement. But on the other hand, when we start holding them accountable for all those actions, which we're doing now with additional sanctions, then it's back to what we're going to tear, you know, it's essentially an excuse to tear up the deal. So, you know, we have to maintain pressure. Again, I think it's something that the world is not used to America taking a strong stand and really hold the Iranians accountable. And particularly, as I mentioned before, for the American hostages that they're holding right now today unjustly.
MACCALLUM: Very important. And clearly, what happened to Otto Warmbier had a major impact on the president, and has had some impact on his policy that we've seen as well. Thanks, you guys. Good to see you both.
MACCALLUM: So, a firestorm erupting over a combative presidential press conference today. Reporters drilling the president over his handling of the violence in Charlottesville; here's just a taste.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: powerful lineup, coming up. Ben Shapiro, Mollie Hemingway, and Jehmu Greene react. Plus, the president dropping him on the phase of a controversial presidential adviser. Could Steve Bannon's days in the White House be numbered?
An outrage over a news report cheering on a European country's effort to eradicate Down Syndrome births and the way that they are doing it is shocking. Sarah Palin joins us with her intensely personal story on this topic tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that we are basically eradicated from our society. That is hardly ever a child's fault. The Down Syndrome (INAUDIBLE) anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You are looking live at new protests outside of Trump Tower tonight as the defiant President Trump takes on a fired up group of reporters in the lobby today. The president's speaking out against a growing movement to tear down Confederate statues and standing by his response to the violence over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E.
Lee. So, this weekend it's Robert E. Lee, I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself: where does it stop?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, this was the scene in Durham, North Carolina last night. Tonight, there is talk that more monuments will come down across the south as we sort of wonder where all of this is headed. The tension in the country, in many ways, feels like the unrest of the 1960's. Yet, the statue under fire is those from the days when our country almost came apart; when 620,000 union and Confederate soldiers lost their lives.
General Mattis, now the Secretary of Defense, was asked in a recent interview: which is threat facing America worries him the most? A lot of things could come to mind, but here's what he said: "The lack of political unity in America. The lack of fundamental friendliness." And today, Ben Shapiro, editor in chief of TheDailyWire.com wrote this: "There's cancer in our body politic. We must cut it out or be destroyed."
He joins us along with Mollie Hemingway, Senior Editor for The Federalist; and Jehmu Greene, former president of the Women's Media Center, both are Fox News contributors. Welcome, to everybody. Ben, I want to start with you in terms of your reaction. After what you wrote, the president stepped out today. As I said, he wasn't going to take questions, but he clearly wanted to set the score straight on a number of points. What did you think?
BEN SHAPIRO, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THEDAILYWIRE.COM: Well, I think that he said one thing that was true, and then he said a bunch of things that were not really good for him or good for the country. The one thing that he said that was true is that the radical left, which has been violent all throughout the country; Antifa has been violent in Sacramento, in Berkeley, and Charlottesville. It's a real danger, and the media have been ignoring that because they prefer to focus in on the white supremacist who were doing their damage, their evil damage, evil people in Charlottesville.
The part that President Trump said that I thought was quite egregious is when he made light of the alt-right. Somebody asked him about the alt- right, he said what is the alt-right? Can you define alt-right? And then he suggested that a bunch of people who are protesting on Friday night -- those Friday night protest involved people chanting about Jews not replacing them, and about white supremacy? And he said, some of those people were very fine people, very nice people. I don't see the purpose of that. The whole point of the column that I wrote is that you have these two nefarious fringe forces that are becoming mainstream. The violence of Antifa and the nasty white identity politics of the alt-right, and both of those need to be condemned full-scale. I saw the president condemn one of those today; I didn't see the president fully condemn the other.
MACCALLUM: Jehmu, what was your take away today?
JEHMU GREENE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE WOMEN'S MEDIA CENTER: I think that there can be only one response. It's appalling. What we saw from the president was disgusting, despicable. It certainly was un-American. But the reality is for 241 years we have been inching closer and closer to the egalitarian society that most Americans and the overwhelming majority of Americans believe in. And as hard as he tries -- and he's trying very hard to flush all of that down the toilet. He has abdicated his moral authority.
And I think now, maybe the only solution is something that has been suggested by the biographer of former President Clinton, which is for President Obama, President Clinton, and the both President Bushes to come out and make a statement to provide the comfort and assurance that you would expect from a president. But we're clearly not going to get that from Donald Trump. His true colors are showing.
MACCALLUM: Mollie, what do you think?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND SENIOR EDITOR FOR THE FEDERALIST: I just want to correct something really quickly, which is that he actually did say that neo-Nazis and white nationalists should be, and I quote, "condemned totally." So, he did condemn neo-Nazis and white nationalists. And he did -- he had a kind of rambling press conference. But it's really good when things are heated to go back and read what President Trump actually said, and then engage with those actual words. And there is something about the way he talks that definitely sets people off, and at times like this when we have white nationalists, protesting in Charlottesville. We have leftist mobs tearing down statues.
It's really important for people to try and keep things as calm as possible, and to preserve political debate. And there is a good case to be made for taking down Confederate statues. That is a case that should be made calmly and rationally by talking to your neighbor and convincing them and understanding that there are multiple arguments in favor and against the removal of statues. And that iconoclasm, in general, is something that you want to -- you do want to worry about, and mob violence is something that is very dangerous and can quickly get out of control.
MACCALLUM: And it feels like it. And it feels like, that's what's happening in some of these situations. With regard to the statues, because there are people who do not fit into any of these extreme categories, who believe that these statues have a reason to remain. And one of them is Condoleezza Rice -- was asked about this awhile back. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I am a firm believer in keeping your history before you. And so, I don't actually want to rename things that were named for slave owners. I want us to step and look at those names and recognize what they did and be able to tell our kids what they did and for them to have a sense of their own history. When you start wiping out your history, sanitizing your history to make you feel better, it's a bad thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: "Wiping out your history to make you feel better," Jehmu.
GREENE: Our history can live in a museum. It doesn't have to be in a park where young people of color walk by and see these statues that represent everything that they -- that goes against them, and who they are as American citizens. You don't go to Germany and see statues of Adolf Hitler. It's fine to make sure that we remember history so we don't repeat it, but having these statues on federal property, on state government property, in part does nothing but harm individuals who understand what the civil war was about. And it was an attack on them.
And, again, all of the progress we have made. We are not at a place in our country where the president of the United States, regardless of what his words were, he defended people who stood at that statue and shouted death to Jews. That is what they were shouting Friday night. There is no excuse for that. And I think anyone who saw his performance on Saturday, yesterday, and today, you can understand where his authenticity is. You understand where his passion is, and it's certainly not on the right side of history.
MACCALLUM: Ben, let's get some other reaction. Ben, what do you think? Is that fair?
SHAPIRO: I think that, in part, that's fair. I mean, I do think that when you -- I think it's a little over the top. I think when you see the president of the United States saying that there are very fine people who are at that protest on Friday night, that torch light protest, where they are shouting that Jews replacing people. And when you see the president of the United States refusing to denounce the alt-right by name, suggesting and said he doesn't know what it is. Then, a lot of the denunciation of white supremacism did wring a little bit hollow when you refuse to acknowledge what the alt-right is. There's a reason that both Richard Spencer and David Duke seemed particularly happy today. I think that that's the fault of the president.
GREENE: They are celebrating.
MACCALLUM: let me have Mollie have the last spot.
SHAPIRO: And I think the president is a bigot, but I think that he seems rather comfortable taking support from racists and bigots when he finds it comfortable to do so and that I find deeply troubling. You know, as far as the Confederate statue stuff, you know, I have sympathy for both sides on this particular argument. But one thing, I think, we all should agree on is that leftist mobs, ripping down statues, and violation of the law is obviously a violation of the law.
MACCALLUM: There's a process underway to make arrests with that. Thank you, Ben. I do want to let Mollie get the last word in here. Really quick, Mollie.
HEMINGWAY: Again, it's important for people. It seems like many people in our media, and our president and political leaders are not doing a good job at calming things down. But we can work together neighbor to neighbor to have decent civil conversations and we should all work to do that.
MACCALLUM: Well said. Thank you, to all of you for being here tonight. So, we're going to take a closer look at European country that has nearly eradicated Down syndrome births not from therapy or from cures, but from abortion. Sarah Palin is here exclusively tonight; she feels as you would imagine, very strongly about this subject from a personal perspective. She has a powerful message for mothers.
Also, a question about Steve Bannon, the shark circling, perhaps, around him as there are calls for his ouster, including members of Congress who got together and wrote a letter. One of them will join us ahead of this, along with Bannon's close colleague who says the strategist's ouster, he believes, would be a very bad thing for the White House when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I liked him. He's a good man. He is not a racist; I can tell you that. He's a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. But, we'll see what happens with Mr. Bannon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: The president there talking about Chief White House Strategist Steve Bannon, who seems to be facing a bit of an uncertain future tonight. A spate of the recent report says that his ouster could be imminent. Democrats have definitely gotten on board; four minority house caucus groups have joined forces to make demands of President Trump. They wrote a letter stating this: "Americans deserve to know that white nationalists, white supremacists, and neo-Nazis are not in a position to influence U.S. policy. That is why we continue to find Steve Bannon's presence in your administration incredibly alarming and dangerous to the nation and to the world."
I'm joined now by California Congresswoman, Karen Bass, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus calling for Mr. Bannon's removal. Congresswoman, good to have you with us tonight.
REP. KAREN BASS, D-CALI., MEMBER OF THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
MACCALLUM: So, on what are you basing that assessment of Steve Bannon?
BASS: Well, let's be clear. It's also not just about Steve Bannon. It's Steve Bannon. It's Gorka, it's Miller. The letter called for the ouster of all three. And frankly, the demand that that happened was immediate. As soon as the president took over in January, there were letters to the White House saying that we thought that having a person like Steve Bannon in the White House sends a terrible message. After such a divisive campaign, we need to have people that are more inclusive. Him coming off of Breitbart News, and the way Breitbart News, first of all, promoted the alt-right, which in our opinion, is just another term for white nationalists or white supremacists. The way he -- specifically, Bannon, has been very racially divisive, we thought that you know, after the inauguration the country needed to heal.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this. Steve Bannon is pretty quiet. I mean, he's not somebody that you hear from very often. We're all familiar with Breitbart News. And some of the headlines that you may be using to put these very serious labels on this man. So, I'm asking you, nobody likes to be labeled things -- the kind of things that you just -- White nationalists, neo-Nazis. I mean, these are extraordinarily strong statements. So, I am asking you, because as I'm about to talk to someone who knows him quite well, and I've spoken to other people who know him quite well. I do not know him quite well. What specifically, when you are going to do that, you need to have some evidence of what's in his heart. So I'm asking, how do you know what is in his heart?
BASS: Well, who knows what's in anyone's heart.
BASS: But what I can tell you is that when he was in charge of Breitbart News, Breitbart News, and the way he was in charge of it, the way they attack the African-American community. You know that Steve Bannon has lots of famous quotes, what he has to say about women. A lot of things that have been attributed to him, his perspective, the way he encouraged the president around the anti-immigrant stand. I mean, there's a long list of issues that have been very, very divisive that Steve Bannon has prided himself is his contribution to the Trump administration.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you another question. Because when I see that's dangerous what's happening in America right now, is that everyone is sort of in one silo or the other, right? There's very little room for people to have differences of opinion. And they are very quickly labeled awful things like neo-Nazi and white nationalists, OK? And names on the other side -- on the left side as well. So does that concern you because you are doing that to him, and so I'm wondering if you would like to be put in that kind of silo and that kind of labeled box based on someone who didn't know you?
BASS: Well, if somebody wanted to look at me and wanted to look at my record, they could certainly never put me in a box like that, because I have not had a history of that. I think if you look at Breitbart News, if you look at Steve Bannon, if you look at what his history has been and, again, I said this is not just about Bannon. This is about Gorka. His anti-immigrant stance. The writings that he has contributed. If you look at Steven miller, it's all of them together and it sends a message about this administration that.
MACCALLUM: That you don't like.
BASS: . to me it was not surprising.
MACCALLUM: I've got to go. I'm sorry. I hear you and I think you made your point, and I thank for being here, but I do want to save time for my own other guest as well. Your point is well made.
MACCALLUM: Karen Bass, thank you very much. So sitting here next to me with a bit of a different take is Raheem Kassam who is a Breitbart News London editor-in-chief, and author of the new book, The No-Go Zone, how Sharia law is coming to a neighborhood near you. Raheem, you listen to that, you heard the charges against the man that you know. What do you say?
RAHEEM KASSAM, BREITBART LONDON EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, you don't hear any evidence for a start. She's not pointing to anything specific. You would expect that there could be a quote, a specific quote attributed. We've been this far now. We've been here for 8 months now. They've be complaining about him nonstop, and the people around him. But they can't never actually say anything specific. And what really stood out to me about that is, you know, do they realize they lost? They don't get to dictate who is in the White House. The Democrats had their turn in the White House. They formed their cabinet. They presented their policies at the last election for the American public. And now they're trying to dictate who is employed by the White House. It seems very strange to me. It's a strange way to approach it. I wonder if the congresswoman has ever actually reached out to Steve Bannon's office to take a meeting, so that she can personally get to know him. Everybody keeps calling for unity and coming together as a nation. What steps is an elective representative taking to get to that unity?
MACCALLUM: Well, in terms of his -- you know, in terms of the basics and her charge, you know him well, is he anti-Semitic? Is he a neo-Nazi? Is he a white supremacist because there are plenty of people in this country who believe that he is?
KASSAM: If he was any of those things, he would be the worst white supremacist, worst neo-Nazi that you can imagine because he hasn't done anything to push forward any of those views. He would be a very unsuccessful version of those things. You know, I am of a Muslim background, your viewers can see. I'm brown. My name is Raheem Kassam. He holds me to be his London editor. The CEO of Breitbart News is a guy called Larry Solov, Jewish background. Job Hollock is our legal editor.
You know, all of these things, none of it stacks up. And we all see this man for -- we all know him. We've worked with him day in, day out, and I have no reason to -- he's not my boss now. I have no reason to come on here and I gain nothing from doing this. But from day one, they started to pick on people and accuse them of certain things. And, you know, it became abundantly clear that when you drill into it, and you sat them down, and you said, what are your specific problems? What are your specific concerns? They would just repeat the same talking points over and over again. This is playing politics for politics sake.
MACCALLUM: One headline from Breitbart page.
KASSAM: Right, they usually take satirical headline.
MACCALLUM: . he's the captain of the ship, that's what.
KASSAM: and they usually post satirical headlines and satirical articles and pretend like they were actual news headlines. Think about this, most mainstream news organizations actually have to issue more corrections every week than Breitbart News has to do a year. Nobody seems to get that.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this. You are concerned as -- you know, just watching all of this play out, as how the dynamic would change if he were to leave the White House. How would that be?
KASSAM: Well, look, I think what President Trump has done is he put together a cabinet that is not a cabinet of yes men. The Obama administration had, you know, ideologues who all wanted to pull the country in a specific direction. If you look at what happened with ObamaCare. If you look at what happened with the bailouts. You know all of these sorts of things that happened under the Obama administration, they happened because they were all doing this high mind set thing, OK? President Trump has put together a diverse cabinet. A sort of big tent cabinet, and to his credit. So you have ideas thrashed around. You actually have people bringing different things and different skill sets. Different talents, different philosophies to the table.
MACCALLUM: But Steve Bannon, what would be missing? What element would be missing if he wasn't there?
KASSAM: Well, I think Steve is probably the person with his -- the second most person with his finger on the pulse as far as the base is concerned.
We always talk about Trump's base. It's a diverse base, but they understand the base. The number one person is obviously President Trump. The number two person is Steve Bannon. You know, if you lose that then you actually give over to some the more liberal elements. Some of the more gun control types who have found themselves in the White House. Some of the people who are very close to Mr. Trump. Who are, you know, if you don't mind me saying, they're New Yorkers. They don't actually identify that well with the rest of the country.
KASSAM: No, I'm not trying to be offensive. It's a different perspective.
MACCALLUM: It's very good talking with you. Thank you very much, Raheem Kassam, joining us tonight. Good to see you. So coming up next in the internet frenzy to identify participants in the Charlottesville protest this weekend. A number of every day Americans were incorrectly ID's. Dana Loesch, still ahead on the dangerous consequences of docking Americans. Plus, an eye opening CBS News report out of Iceland sheds light on a nation working to eradicate people like the young woman that you see there on the left. Not through cures but through abortion. Sarah Palin joins me in a moment with her personal take on this shocking report straight ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't look at abortion as murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the results are only 85 percent accurate. For daughter, Augusta, now 7, was born with Down syndrome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Shocking report from CBS News is opening eyes about what is going on in Iceland and other countries. The country is boasting that they have now virtually eliminated Down syndrome, not with any cure but by abortion. So here is a look at some of that report. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that we are basically eradicated almost Down syndrome from our society, that is hardly ever a child born with Down syndrome in Iceland anymore.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what does the 100 percent termination rate though you think reflect about Icelandic society.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I think it reflects a relatively heavy hand to the country.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 80 to 85 percent of women want to have a Down syndrome screen.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: So there was demand for this.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely, yeah.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Babies with Down syndrome are still being born in Iceland. Some of them were low risk in our screening test, so we didn't find them with the screening.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't look at abortion as murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended. We ended a possible life that may have had acute complication.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see it as preventing suffering.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Preventing suffering for the child and also for the family. And I think that is more right than seeing it as murder. It's so black and white. Life isn't black and white. Life is gray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So here now former Alaska governor and GOP vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, whose son Trig was born in 2008. There he is on the left as a baby. And here's a recent picture of him. I think he's 9-years- old now. Sarah, welcome. Great to have you with us tonight.
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: What was your reaction to the CBS story, and all of the information, and the numbers, and the way that they're effectively calling children like yours from their society?
PALIN: We couldn't get through all of it, all of the report without my heart just absolutely breaking because this intolerance for people who may not look like you is just so -- it's so wrong. It's so evil. And here, Iceland is such a beautiful country. When I was governor here I met with the president of Iceland, and we talked about our beautiful regions of the world and the beautiful people who lived there. The hard-working people with such great hearts. And I think Iceland won't be so beautiful if they continue down this path of being so intolerant to the degree of trying to snuff out the life of those who maybe do not look like the subjective view of someone that would equate to perfection.
You know, when you consider that a Down syndrome child, their skin is a little bit different. Their eyes are shaped differently. Their speech patterns are different. Those things that make them so unique make the world more unique and more beautiful, and to try to snuff out their life in the name of building a perfect race or a perfect country, that hearkens back to neo-Nazi, Germany, when they tried the same. And look at the horrors that were resulting from those actions.
MACCALLUM: You know, you say it so well, obviously, because you have personal experience. And I remember the beautiful moments that we saw with you on the campaign trail with your son and, you know, you think about people. The idea that people, who look, you know, normal, for lack of a better word, are perfect is hilarious to me. I mean, you know, we are all born with so many imperfections so if you happen to look like other children, you know, life is going to throw all kinds of challenges at you. But I know you have spoken very poignantly about what went through your mind because you did have that moment when the doctor said to you that there was a higher chance that Trig might be born with Down syndrome. How did you feel? What was your reaction? What went through your mind?
PALIN: Well, I can certainly understand why a mother, when receiving that news that their child may have Down syndrome would be so full of fear. I was full of fear. I had to really be brought down to my knees and ask God to change my heart and prepare my heart and my eyes and my understanding of the purpose in my son's life. And he certainly answered those prayers because the minute that Trig was born the fear went away.
And I see how he has just really allowed for real good priorities in my life, I believe, where you know I know what matters. And life matters. And love matters. And really we are not -- who are we without love and acceptance? Who are we as a culture? Iceland or these other countries that are condoning the idea of eradicating those with Down syndrome. Who are they without love, without that respect for the sanctity of all life?
MACCALLUM: I couldn't help but think, you know, this is basically eugenics. And it took me back to the Middlebury story, because the students at Middlebury were so outraged at Charles Murray because they claimed that his book, and he claims that's not true, was supportive of eugenics and they all stood up and turned their backs. And I thought where are those students turning their backs to this practice and standing against the eugenics that's being represented, that is ending the existence of these little babies?
PALIN: Right. Well, we see, Martha, in other areas of the country, in our own country today. You know, we see the bigotry. We see racism, unfortunately. We see those who would think that they are supreme to others based on someone's physical characteristics, the color of their skin, or maybe the way they speak, or the shape of their eyes. And that's very, very tragic. And it really is bringing our nation, our world backwards, back to those days that we said never again would we allow such a thing to happen. So to see a report today, brought forth by, I think it was CBS who reported this, with the celebratory tone that oh, yea, we're going to eradicate those who may not look real perfect like we look, yeah, right.
You know, I think it's a very disheartening trend. It's very tragic. But there are things that we can do about it. You know, we can allow -- especially young mothers who are facing less than ideal circumstances in their pregnancy finding out that maybe their child will have Down syndrome or some other challenge to come. We can help them be less fearful by speaking proudly about those that we have in our lives that bring so much joy. Who bring so much joy into this world if only we would give them of that chance.
MACCALLUM: You have done a great job of alleviating that fear in a lot of people. And thank you, Sarah Palin. And best to Trig and the rest of your family. Good to see you tonight. Thank you for being here.
PALIN: Thank you. Thank you. You, too.
MACCALLUM: So coming up next, the dangers of the practice that is known as doxing. Celebrities like Jennifer Lawrence using their social media power to out racist in this country, she says. But it has back fired on some normal people whose lives have been offended by that. Dana Loesch sounds off on what she says is a mob tactic that could cause irreparable damage to some innocent Americans, when we come back.
MACCALLUM: So we are learning that we have to be very careful about where all of this division leads. For example, the outing of people's personal information is known as doxing. There is now an online campaign that's being supported by Jennifer Lawrence and others that asked to identify white nationalists who appear in the photos in Charlottesville. The problem is that in that process several innocent people have been misidentified as neo-Nazis, including this professor from Arkansas, Kyle Quinn, who was confused with this man. He and his wife have been so harassed that they had to leave their home and move in with a friend. Here now Dana Loesch, host of Dana on the Blaze TV. Dana, good to see you tonight.
DANA LOESCH, DANA ON BLAZE TV HOST: Thank you, Martha, for having me.
MACCALLUM: A lot of people are trying to expose the people that is seen in these pictures, and some of them need to be for good reason. But this process is pretty dangerous.
LOESCH: No. I completely agree. Everybody would love to know who these individuals are. Make no mistake. But we have to be really careful in how we go about that. Because, according to the standards of internet mobs and the frenzy, you know, people just get all riled up. They go after and they can really harm innocent individuals like James Quinn, the man that you just mentioned. He just happened to have a similar look and build to one of the guys pictured holding the mosquito repellant Tiki torch, and for that he and his family were driven from their home. This guy has made his life on helping individuals and because of this false identification, you know, he trains other scientists, that can actually impair him from being able to go out and do his job properly and help people.
There was also a false identification of initially the guy who was behind the wheel of the car who used an ISIS tactic to drive it into a crowd of people. Originally, there was a false identification there. We just have to be really, really careful in how we go about it. I mean, there's a reason why there is an investigation. Attorney General Jeff Sessions has said the DOJ is also looking into this. I really trust the professionals to do their jobs because they, as much as anyone else, want to find out who some of these individuals are that are pictured assaulting other individuals or, of course, driving their cars into someone. But we can't get carried away in this frenzy and actually do more harm than good with the intent here.
MACCALLUM: You and Kathleen Rice, new topic here, have been going at it. We just have about a minute. She said -- I'm just going to say it, NRA and Dana Loesch are quickly becoming domestic security threats under President Trump. We can't ignore that. And you went on to say an elected official just labeled me and millions of others domestic security threats. Wow. Where does this stand?
LOESCH: We don't know yet. I wish that Rice would apologize for this, or at the very least step down from the Homeland Security Council on which she sits as a committee member.
MACCALLUM: Why do you want her to do that?
LOESCH: She maligned millions of innocent Americans, and basically labeled them, Martha, the same as she would a terrorist. And these are innocent moms and dads, grandfathers and grandmothers, millions of people who have done nothing wrong except in her eyes support their Second Amendment rights.
MACCALLUM: Dana Loesch, always good to see you, Dana. Thank you for being here tonight.
LOESCH: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back with more of "The Story."
MACCALLUM: Busy night. Thanks for being part of "The Story" tonight. We want to know your stories as well. Send it to me at twitter at Martha MacCallum using the #thestory. We will see you right back here tomorrow night on Wednesday at 7:00 PM. My friend Tucker Carlson is coming up next.
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