This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 27, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Dana Perino, and this is "The Five."
So, some explosive new development tonight on an internal White House kerfuffle now spilling out into the public. Anthony Scaramucci, the president's new Communications Director gave a profanity-filled interview to the New Yorker Magazine unleashing attacks on two senior White House officials. He called White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus a "expletive paranoid schizophrenic and a paranoiac" and also used vulgar language to describe President Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon.
Scaramucci took to Twitter following the publication saying, "I sometimes use colorful language. I will refrain in this arena but not give up the passionate fight for Donald Trump's agenda." And this one just then, he just tweeted, "I made a mistake in trusting a reporter. It won't happen again." No word yet from that reporter.
White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders weighed in earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Anthony put out a statement here just moments ago and stated that this is a guy who sometimes uses colorful, in many circles probably not appropriate language. And he's very passionate about the president, the president's agenda, and I think he may have let that get the best of him in that conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: S there's a lot more developing tonight. Let's go to the White House and bring in Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry with the latest from there. Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPODENT: Dana, it was always fast- moving developments, a support to remind ourselves that Anthony Scaramucci is not even officially really on the staff here and it was barely a week ago, six days ago that he was at the White House podium being introduced as an incoming aide. So much has happened since then. He is supposed to be the incoming White House communications Director, trying to sharpen the message back on the president's big agenda. Jobs, health care, which obviously playing out in the senate tonight, a very important moment for the president's agenda, as well as infrastructure and all the big national security issues he's dealing with. Instead, what it's spilling out is what is clearly a feud between Scaramucci and the White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus.
Remember, at the podium last Friday, Scaramucci claimed they were brothers, they have fight sometimes, it gets messy, but deep down, they deeply liked each other. At the time, we reported that a lot of other people in the building behind me did not believe that they got along and in fact it is becoming more and more clearer that that is the case. You see Steve Bannon there, Scaramucci training his fire on him, as well claiming that the president's Chief Strategist here at the White House is all about himself, not about the president, not about the people, not about the president's agenda. All of this in the New Yorker interview following an extraordinary interview on CNN, where Scaramucci said this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR OF DONALD TRUMP: If you want to talk about the chief of staff, we have that odds, we have had differences. When I said we were brothers from the podium, that's because we are rough on each other. Some brothers are like Cain and Abel. Other brothers can fight with each other and get along. I don't know if this is repairable or not, that will be up to the president.
When I put out a tweet and I put Reince's name in the tweets, they are all making the assumption that it's him because journalists know who the leakers are. So if Reince wants to explain that he's not a leaker, let him do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: So that last bit there, referencing a tweet late last night, even before all of this, where it appears Scaramucci was accusing Priebus of leaking out Scaramucci's personal financial disclosure form. Instead, it wasn't really a leak. It was a form that reporters are able to get this public information. He had the sort of back pedal from that charge against Priebus. But it's clear regardless of how this has spun now, that here is a lot going on behind the scenes and now even in public between these top White House aides. Dana.
PERINO: All right. Thank you so much. So back in the day, like King Henry VIII, they had palace intrigue. The New York Post cover tomorrow, I'm going to show this if I can bring it up here. It has basically the internal White House staff as the cast of Survivor trying to figure out who is going to be remaining at the end of this.
Kimberly, you had a unique advantage last night to actually hear a little bit maybe about this. And I'm not asking you to divulge anything, but you are at the White House last night. What's your take on all of this?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, it's nice to get an invitation, right? So, it was very nice to be there and it's wonderful to see the president and the first lady, who I'm very fond of and friends of. And so there was a dinner that's so nice, little tour inside of the White House. And say with there with our colleague Sean Hannity. I won't say the other people who were there because they weren't outed as being present.
But it was a very nice dinner, wonderful time, great food, probably ate too much, you know me. But other than that, I mean the president was in very good mood, very, very good, very happy, really feel like things were on the right course, that his policies and agendas are going to be implemented. So he seemed really enthused, which was great. And I guess this all happens later on, after the dinner.
PERINO: And earlier today, Jesse, Sarah Sanders and her press briefing said that the president likes competition like this. I'm not sure if this is the exact thing that they are looking for. Like competition in terms of like ideas and getting to the best policy, I can see, but internal squabbling, do you think he likes that?
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I think he might be a little entertained by it.
PERINO: As we all are.
WATTERS: And there's a message to his madness. Sarah Huckabee Sanders also said another brilliant thing on the story tonight, which she says, "I don't think the American people care so much about who has a job inside the White House, they care about who has a job outside the White House and America." But there's a lot of locker room talk going on right now.
The other day, Scaramucci said he is not of backstabber, he's a frontstabber. And I think Reince right now is pulling the knife out of his chest. Yes. I think here's what's going on. Trump is trying to encourage weakness and disloyalty from his team. So he taps Mooch. He's got a great head of hair, a very sharp tongue and he's coming here with a flame thrower and just kind of mowing down everybody that's weak and he's firing disloyalty people, he's mishandling people on television, and then throwing some fast balls right at Reince's head.
Now, how Reince reacts, I think in the next couple of weeks, is going to determine whether or not Mooch is going to slide in and take that chief of staff job. I'm not really sure how it's going to play out. Is the language a little over-the-top? Yes. Do we all have virgin ears? No. I'm not that worried about that. But Trump doesn't hire yes-men, like Obama did. He's hiring people with sharp elbows, people with very sharp tongues who come in and compete and are very passionate, and they're all from different walks of what.
So I think we have to get used to this. A little perspective here, vets are not dying in secret wetlands (ph). Ambassadors are not being left behind to die on the anniversary of 9/11. And border patrol agents aren't dying at the hands of Mexican drug cartels.
PERINO: To that point, that's something you brought up last night, which is that all the good stuff is on page three.
PERINO: That they're doing. And then you have things like this, because I said on the story that reporters will always eat dessert first if you give it to them. And if it's like a soap opera, then you're going to cover that first, and you're going to read it first, too.
TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: Exactly, which --
PERINO: And you're standing in the grocery store line.
SHILLUE: Yes. You know, I think it is a little overstate though. It's not as if he's the, I don't know, director of communications, something like that. That would be serious. The thing is --
GUILFOYLE: Director of the O.K. Corral.
SHILLUE: I also, I think I agree with Jesse. Listen, my Twitter feed everyday is filled with profanity. When I'm watching the news, I switch over to one entertainment show. It's totally profane. There's practically pornography on the cable channels. It's ridiculous. When we pretend that we've never heard this stuff before. And so, you know, he said it to another reporter.
PERINO: I don't know if that's the thing that I wanted. The thing is that the fact that they are saying that about each other --
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh, my gosh. I don't understand. There was a headline the other day that said, "This is not normal." Well, to me, this is the presidency of the United States of America. And what we are seeing here is that the presidency is being degraded by this kind of hooligan behavior.
WATTERS: Are you talking about the Clinton White House or are you talking about the newest White House?
PERINO: Right, right.
WILLIAM: Jesse, there's no --
WATTERS: I just want to make sure.
PERINO: I'm telling you, at White House, they're not talking about it.
WILLIAMS: Jesse, there's no getting away from this. I mean I don't understand why the president would invite this kind of acrimony, this kind.
GUILFOYLE: I think the president is very frustrated.
WILLIAMS: This is the weak in which he has gone after his own attorney general. And now, we have Scaramucci going after the chief of staff, the chief political consultant, sayings that you can't -- I mean I don't even know how to deal with it, but he saying Bannon should perform physically impossible acts on himself and he's blocking this and that. He's saying that Reince Priebus -- and I don't get it, saying Reince Priebus is psychotic, schizophrenic, and using profanity describe him, saying this Cain and Abel, which is we know didn't end well.
To me, what you're seeing here is --
SHILLUE: From One of them.
WILLIAMS: Yes. But what you're seeing here disheartening. And I don't understand why you --
WATTERS: But then the president has been saying the exact same thing about Bannon for the last year. And then all of a sudden Mooch says it and then it's a big deal and they are sympathetic?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Let me just say, you can try to pass this off. No big deal. Nothing happened. Everybody move along. Something big is happening here and it's hurting the president, it's hurting the presidency and it's hurting our country, and you can see the divisions by the way, not only in congress among republicans but even among republican commentators. When you get Laura Ingraham, Charles Grantham, even Newt Gingrich, who is close to the president, saying that Scaramucci is full of himself, maybe you should stop, Jesse, and just say this is serious, this is not -- or let's just not bring up Obama again.
WATTERS: Well, and people are calling for the president's assassination and everybody switched onto the table then someone calls someone a schizo and it's like all the hell is breaking loose?
GUILFOYLE: Well, you know what, I think we should wait and see what's going to happen and what the president is going to decide. He is the American president. People serve at the pleasure of the president. And he is the one that gives direction, he's the one that makes the choices and the personnel decisions, and they're going to be his to make. So we'll see. I mean I don't know. We're going to see what's going to happen. But I'm sure if anybody was in a situation like this, you would feel -- you regret. Obviously, you want to do things differently, you want to do good job and be passionate about the president, so.
PERINO: One thing that strange is that when the announcement was made that Anthony Scaramucci would become the Director of Communications to the White House, there must have been direction from the president to go out and make it look nice, OK? So play nice.
And so both Reince and Scaramucci came out and they're like, "Oh, yes, no, we're good."
PERINO: We're brothers. But maybe that wasn't actually being truthful.
SHILLUE: Yes. And I think Scaramucci knows that he's trying to impress his boss now. He's also trying to impress us.
PERINO: Reporters love it.
SHILLUE: Yes. They love it. He knew he went over well when he gave the first press conference.
SHILLUE: Spicer went out and everyone said, "Who is this new guy?" And he was kind of impressive and he's got the arms and he's kind of like Trump. So he's a little full of himself. I think he's got it wrong with Bannon. I think obviously, Bannon has his head down. He's not like working on the Bannon brand. I think Scaramucci is working on the Scaramucci brand. So I think he's like projecting a little bit there.
PERINO: No, no, no. But, yes, I just read an article on Breitbart about how -- I don't know. This is all very interesting.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know what--
PERINO: Just like I never had to deal with this.
GUILFOYLE: That kind of talking about with somebody, Steve Bannon, he's at Goldman, secretary of the states.
GUILFOYLE: You should hear everything I heard as a prosecutor working with like cops and detectives --
GUILFOYLE: -- and other prosecutors.
WILLIAMS: It's tough talk. I don't know where --
WILLIAMS: I'm going to say when you see this, when you see him talking about his fellow Trump aides in the White House, in this way, that's why it's disheartening. I'm not a big Trump supporter. But this is --
GUILFOYLE: We've been reading about White House shakeups for some time.
WILLIAM: Well, I mean --
GUILFOYLE: So something needs to be done. That's my point.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask you.
GUILFOYLE: What's happening here?
WILLAIMS: Well, so last night you're with the president.
WILLIAMS: You get in the indication as to who's coming, who's going?
PERINO: She can't say anything like that even if she did know.
WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm asking her. She can speak for herself.
PERINO: OK, I won't try to be her press secretary.
GUILFOYLE: I would love you as my press secretary. You're very qualified.
GUILFOYLE: That's what I'm saying, wait and see what the president does. That's what I'm saying.
WILLIAMS: Well, I saw -- in Drodge (ph) this evening it says deathmatch. I mean that's basically what we're talking about.
PERINO: Well, that's again to my point.
PERINO: That reporters are loving this, I mean the public life. It's like honestly we are all addicted to the sugar, and we are treated to it everyday, that there is always something that has nothing to do with policy that we can talk about. It's frustrating to the White House, but a lot of this is self-inflicted.
GUILFOYLE: I think the two that we saw today is you didn't hear any statements coming out when they said that they have the confidence to the president, it was one thing and it was the second thing, which was -- a confidence of the president and one other thing, and they asked about Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
WATTERS: Right, she did not give Reince a very good indication that everything is fine. It seems like he's on borrowed time right now. I think Reince has been a loyal guy to the extent that once Trump won the nomination, he soldiered up and got in line and he was very good to him.
Now, six months in, has it worked out very smoothly under Reince's leadership as chief of staff? You can say the travel-ban roll out wasn't that smooth. The Obamacare deal has not gone smoothly at all. The messaging has sometimes been off. There hasn't been great execution and Scaramucci comes in and this guy might knock some heads together and make some changes and this is maybe something the president is trying to encourage.
WILLIAMS: Well, I just think if you are a republican on Capitol Hill, right now, you're thinking this is out of control. This is the --
PERINO: Well, actually you're thinking right now about what we're going to talk about in a little bit, which is the health care bill.
PERINO: But first, the Fox News Exclusive ahead, Attorney General Jeff Sessions with some very candid things to say about the president's public criticism of him. Up next.
GUILFOYLE: Welcome back, Attorney General Jeff Sessions is responding today's public criticism from his boss, President Trump, in an exclusive interview with Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: You've seen the president's criticism of you. Do you think it's fair?
ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS: Well, it's kind of hurtful, but the president of the United States is a strong leader. He is determined to move this country in the direction he believes that needs to go to make us great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Tucker Carlson caught up with Sessions in El Salvador where he seeking international help for the fight against the violent street gang, MS-13. Here's more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: The president has made it really clear that he doesn't seem to want you to run the Department of Justice. Will you continue to run?
SESSIONS: Well, he can make that clearer. Any time, I serve at the pleasure of the president. If he wants to make a change, he can certainly do so. And I would be glad to yield in that circumstance. No doubt about it. But I do believe that we are making tremendous progress. I can feel the movements we are making.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Well, the president's voice is great disappointment with his attorney general for recusing himself in the Russian probe. Sessions, however, is standing by his decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SESSIONS: I talked to experts in the Department of Justice, people who are trained in that. I'm confident I made the right decision, the decision that's consistent for the rule of law. And an attorney general who does not follow the law is not very effective in leading the Department of Justice. So I think with 15 years in the department, having served in that great department, knowing the integrity that's required of the attorney general, I believe I made the right decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK. Dana, so when I think about this and I look the optics and I see the attorney general there, he's out in the fields doing the job and there's been an incredible progress in numbers as it relates to MS-13, which has the former gang prosecutor, to me, that says something. That's a very good objective that's been attained in terms of putting those priorities of violent street gangs, et cetera, and making the prosecutions there. And so he's in the field trying to do that, which I think is good for the president.
PERINO: So there's that. And then also you have Fox News and Tucker Carlson have the first public comments from Jeff Sessions, because the attorney general has said nothing, right? Well, there was this public humiliation of him for the last couple of weeks.
And yesterday, we talked about frontstabbers and how that's a great thing. I just -- I thought about that all day and it bothers me. I think that if you have a disagreement with somebody that you are friends with or that works with you, expressing it in private and dealing with that there is much better than basically disparaging him in front of the world. And that it's very important that he -- people of the justice department that work there, the career officials know, the attorney general has the confidence of the president and is able to go for it and do the things like he's doing down in El Salvador.
GUILFOYLE: And this looks like, and seems, and feels like that is settling down a little bit more, Jesse.
WATTERS: Yes. My White House sources are telling me that --
GUILFOYLE: Ed Henry?
WATTERS: -- that might slap Sessions with the travel ban and not let him back in the country.
PERINO: Was that Ed Henry?
WATTERS: It wasn't Ed Henry. Jeff Sessions. Listen, I think what's going on is Sessions shouldn't have recused himself in my opinion. It looked weak. It leaves the president exposed. The president now feels vulnerable. He doesn't feel like he has the options that he needs. Let's be honest, he want someone that has his back. Eric holder, did he have President Obama's back? Of course he did. Eric Holder was --
WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?
WATTERS: -- held in contempt of congress and not freed to putting documents into the congress's hands when they ask about fast and furious.
WILLAIMS: Jesse, it's offensive.
WATTERS: Of course he stood by President Obama.
WILLIAMS: Jesse, these people are --
WATTERS: Eric Holder wasn't a point of special prosecutor to look at the IRS, fast and furious.
WATTERS: VA scandal, it didn't do anything. Really, for people said that, "Oh, you know what, this guy is not -- he has a lot of integrity, of course he has integrity, but he's also a political appointee. Let's get that clear.
Trump is also venting. He's venting and I understand that. He's also may be lighting a fire under Jeff Sessions to motivate Jeff Sessions and to show the country and to the rest of the cabinet that he demands loyalty. But I don't think getting rid of Jeff Sessions is a good idea. I think Jeff Sessions is implementing the president's policy agenda on immigration beautifully. He's probably the most effective executor of the agenda the president has of any cabinet official. And it's just funny to look at the media who called the sky a racist for the last year and now all of a sudden very sympathetic towards Jeff Sessions. The height of hypocrisy.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, I thought that was Comey no more.
WATTERS: Yes, that's it.
GUILFOYLE: They didn't like Comey. Now I think that they love Comey.
WATTERS: It just depends.
GUILFOYLE: Mr. Williams?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think to me, this is the culture of chaos that's now overtaking the White House. So we were talking in the previous session about Scaramucci and Priebus and Bannon, and things out of control. But here is the president, right? So no longer are we one step away. We're right to the man where buck stops and he goes after his attorney general.
Now, in response to what you said, Jesse, you heard Jeff Sessions say himself, he went to the people at the justice department, they reviewed his involvement in the campaign, the fact that he had not disclosed contact with the Russian ambassador and suggested to him that the proper step to take for the attorney general, the nation's top law enforcement officer was to recuse himself. And he stands by that to this day in the interview.
WATTERS: Well, democrats circle the wagons all the time and republicans don't. That's what the president said.
WILLIAMS: Will you stop? That is not what's going on. But its behavior, it looks like gangsters or school yard. This is the United States of America. We are a nation of laws. That's how you and I, republican, democrat, black, white, rich, poor, sit next to each other. There are laws here. Jeff Sessions is a man of the law and I think you see this coming most powerfully from his colleagues in the senate. People who disagree with him about restarting the war on drugs or --
WATTERS: Well, we're getting lecture to that following the law by the Democratic Party? That's really ringed to us.
WILLIAMS: That's all you have, Jesse.
WATTERS: That's all I needs. That's all I need.
WILLIAMS: Because there's no way that you can say, "Oh, yeah, you know what, he should just be like configure (ph) to Donald Trump instead of attorney general of the United States.
WATTERS: The president hasn't broken any laws and either has Jeff Sessions.
SHILLUE: This is what I think he's saying, Juan, is that, yes, that it would be nice to live in a world where everyone did respect the rule of law, but he's right, democrats do circle the wagons.
WILLIAMS: I don't think so.
SHILLUE: And Eric Holder and --
GUILFOYLE: Loretta Lynch.
SHILLUE: Yes. And Lynch. I mean they were -- because she'd never recused herself. She did say I'll -- remember, she said I'll do whatever Jeff Sessions says. But there was no recusal in any of that. Fast and furious --
WILLIAM -- Comey in FBI case.
SHILLUE: Yes. But fast and furious, republicans were saying you've got to recuse yourself, right?
SHILLUE: If I that were right -- I think --
WILLIAMS: Not in that case.
SHILLUE: Well, Jesse is right. They do circle the wagons. And I think that --
WILLIAMS: What does that have to do with what is going on with Jeff Sessions being attacked, humiliated by the president of the United States because he wants to get an attorney general who will fire Bob Mueller and stop the Russian investigation?
SHILLUE: I think he's just pushing and prodding and that's all it is. And I think they know it is because his stuff and the people around the president are quite chill about it. I saw an interview with the president. He was like, "That's just the way the president is.
And I talked to Sarah Huckabee Sanders and she said, "Well, he's the president. That's what he feels. And then Jeff Sessions said, "Oh, that's the way he feels." So they're not upset about, it seems like to me.
WILLAIMS: And you guys are more upset.
GUILFOYLE: And the vice president was stopped by. He is such a nice man.
SHILLUE: He is.
GUILFOYLE: I this he's so nice. You look at him and he's like.
SHILLUE: And Jeff Sessions. I mean he's --
GUILFOYLE: Yes. OK, anyway, Hillary Clinton reveals the title of her new book, and we've got some other new details on the post election tell-all (ph), coming up next. Stay with us.
WATTERS: One year ago yesterday, Hillary Clinton was nominated for president. We all know how that ended, but the failed democratic presidential candidate plans to reveal her version soon. It's a title of her new book coming out September 12th, "What Happened" no question mark. What was Hillary thinking and feeling during the unprecedented election of 2016 for the first time in her most personal memoir yet, so, Juan, what happened?
WILLIAMS: Well I think she is going to say, Russia interfered, Comey came forward in the last ten days, didn't say we have an investigation going against Trump, he just said were continuing the investigation against Hillary. So, you see it shift and critical states. She lost states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, less than 1 percent. She is going to say that these things happen. Now you heard in the last few days from Chick Schumer, the Democrat leader in the senate, the Democrats try to rebrand themselves and if you have an opponent whose percentage of approval is about 40 percent, and you lose, you can't blame anyone but yourself. You heard David Axelrod who ran Obama campaign saying billions blown by that Clinton campaign. I think Republicans thought oh, Hillary won't take a responsibility, but I think it's also true that what Hillary says about Russian interference and about Comey's behavior, it definitely contributes to her defeat.
WATTERS: I definitely think this is the first time I agree with crying Chuck. That she really shouldn't blame anybody but herself. I like the book, I mean she doesn't need the money, Kimberly isn't therapeutic, inst legacy repair, and what do you think it is?
GUILFOYLE: Maybe I think you have to have sort end game. I don't know if there are interested in any kind of therapy, they have a lot of lifetime left to work it out, I don't think. I think maybe she is actually thinking about can she do another run again? And so there's this reputational repair, revisionist history and trying to connect again with her base and her voters. I've really bad news for her. These other people are like move out of the way. It's over, right?
WATTERS: Kimberly an excellent good point, Democrats are sitting around and it will be September and she will just come running back, sucking up all the oxygen and it's all going to rewind back to her losing and Trump is gets another shot at the punching bag.
PERINO: It's interesting that her book title is the same as Scott McClellan's. He was a press secretary for a couple years in the Bush administration. People at the time were like, I mean with a question mark. And this day in age, given our first block, that we talk about, it should be what you know what happened.
WATTERS: Dana Perino!
PERINO: I'm sorry. I thought that there is going to be a bombshell in this book. Ok, I look at the cover, that cover does not grab me.
PERINO: I thought it was a dummy copy, you know that is not the actual thing on it.
SHILLUE: We have to have Hillary going the other way.
PERINO: I think she wants to write it for her legacy's sake so she can have her side of the story in her words in one place to get it out there.
WATTERS: What should she title the book, Tom?
SHILLUE: It's the way you say it. It's not, "what happened!" It's what happened?
SHILLUE: This is the most appropriately titled book since "If I did it."
WATTERS: The O.J. book.
SHILLUE: Something about that title rings true. I think conservatives will read this book.
WATTERS: You do?
SHILLUE: They love reliving 2016.
WATTERS: Trump will be up at the White House every night. All right, as several prominent Republicans threaten to block a stripped-down Obamacare repeal bill. The showdown is up next.
WILLIAMS: Another push tonight in the senate to unravel Obamacare. There is plan both on a stripped-down health care bill after broader legislation failed. Four Republican Senator say they will not vote for it, unless they get a guarantee that the house will not pass it as is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: The skinny bill as policy is a disaster. The skinny bill as a replacement for Obamacare is a fraud. The skinny bill is a vehicle to get in conference to find a replacement. It's not a replacement of itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Speaker Paul Ryan said the house is willing to negotiate a final bill with the senate, but Senator John McCain for once says that reassurance just isn't enough. Kimberly, is this thing dead?
GUILFOYLE: I don't think so. The sense that I was getting yesterday was that they are very optimistic about this. That they are not going to give up. They will try to get it done. At the same time, I will say, very focused on tax reform as well. I think that is something that they really want to get done and are very adamant about it until that, you know and Secretary Steven Mnuchin is going to get it done. Let's see, I'd like to see something very good here, for health care to improve upon. You know, Obamacare, do some things great for the American people. I mean who doesn't want excellent health care for everyone?
WILLIAMS: So Jesse, it looks like they voted to go ahead early this week but didn't know what they were voting on. They've gone through several bills and said no to them and they have come down to this skinny bill which would do away with the individual mandate, do away with the mandate for corporations with more than 50 employees and do away with the tax on medical devices. Yet they really don't feel that that is sufficient. They want something more. Do you have any idea, and a sense of what they are looking for?
WATTERS: No. Is the clown show, straight up, I've never seen anything like that and that is really tough to say, when you are talking about Unites States and Congress. It's been a catastrophe from the get-go. It took forever to get it through the house. They failed twice and then they can't get it through the senate. That was supposed to be easier. And the Republicans were sent to have full control, the White House, senate, congress, to deliver. And they are not delivering. If they can't deliver on something they promised to deliver for how many years this has been? They don't deserve the majority. Get your act together. Or move on to tax cuts, because I'm sick of it and I think the American people are sick of it. The American people need help from Obamacare. It's failing and it hurts people. If you can't help the American people, do your job or go home.
WILLIAMS: So Dana, here's the Democratic argument. I'm responding to Jesse but I'm putting the question to you. If you have something better after seven years, if you gave a better bill covering more people, going down premiums, put it on the table but they don't seem to have that at the moment. It seems like there's a partisan effort to say oh, yeah, we did it, but because we are keeping our pledge.
PERINO: I agree that this process does not look good. When the history books are written, it will be like a comma, because if they actually get it done, that the time it will matter. What I heard from the Senate today is that the President and the Vice-President have been willing to make any calls that they ask them to make. I don't understand why John McCain thinks that when Paul Ryan says we are willing to go to conference to negotiate, he says that is not good enough and he needs more reassurance. I don't know what else they will need. Obviously they will have to go to conference. I think there's a little bit of a problem on the CBO score. For example, for the skinny repeal, the CBO said that 4 million people would need Medicaid. But Medicaid is basically free. Why did they think 4 million people would walk away?
WILLIAMS: I don't think they would leave, they would be pushed off.
PERINO: But they are not taking away -- and skinny repeal, all the Medicaid money is safe. It doesn't make sense to me.
WILLIAMS: Well I think what you see is not --
GUILFOYLE: Not so skinny.
PERINO: Skinny is actually fat.
WILLIAMS: You know what bothers me, Tom, Republican really don't know where they are going and so we have been through this, I mean, you're looking at me suspiciously, Jesse.
WATTERS: that is how I always look at you.
GUILFOYLE: That is his resting face.
WILLIAMS: All right, I will shoot back but I genuinely, sincerely wonder after all these years, they don't have an idea of what's better than something they have condemned so aggressively.
SHILLUE: They do in everybody agree on the three things in skinny bill. Every Republican agrees on. They should do an ultra light with the individual mandate, just take that off. The individual mandate in front of the Supreme Court, every Republican wanted that thing knocked down. So, knock it down. There's no excuse to not vote to knock down that individual mandate.
WILLIAMS: But then the whole thing collapses without it.
WILLIAMS: Oh good?
SHILLUE: The argument really is they don't know what they want. The argument is whether we want to do things all at once. It McCain thinks we have to do it altogether. Other people think you don't. I don't think you don't.
WILLIAMS: You would allow all the insurance companies to become anxious and uncertain?
PERINO: They are like that now.
SHILLUE: I don't care about them.
WILLIAMS: I mean it is a difficult situation, Kimberly I will come back to you, because you are at the heart of the matter last night. Do you sense that the President has any plan in mind?
GUILFOYLE: Any plan in mind specifically? Yeah, look, he is doing everything he can. Vice President Pence, he was talking about not getting any dinner.
He was working on it. In the President said listen, put me in. He is very enthusiastic and excited about the rally that he just had. He felt good about getting out there. That renewed sense of spirit. We've got to get this done.
WILLIAMS: That is what the Republicans say they wish he had been out on the campaign trail when Obama was pushing.
GUILFOYLE: I think he should do more of that. If you are at your best and it really connects the message, if it --
PERINO: If it goes to conference, he should give one oval office address about what he thinks the principles are that he is trying to achieve in this bill so he can give them the enthusiasm that they need to pass the final.
WILLIAMS: Scaramucci is out, Dana Perino is available. A prominent Democratic congressman compares President Trump to a ruthless monarch. You will hear from his staff up next.
SHILLUE: Democrats love to compare President Trump to all kinds of former tyrants and dictators. Here's the latest parallel from the deputy chairman of the DNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEITH ELLISON, D-MINN.: What he is doing through his twitter account and in other ways is circumventing the whole system to intimidate people, to pack courts and intimidate the press. Also so he can just run everything himself. We fought a war of independence against somebody, King George, who was trying to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: I think that is obviously way over the top. Let's look at some of the facts. The checks and balances that we have in our system are working very well. The courts push back against the travel ban, the President said ok, let me fix it. Now it's going to the Supreme Court and they will be able to say its fine on the merits. Congress has said no, you don't. We are not going to do it that way. The President's like, ok let's try a different one, the way that our founding fathers set up our system is actually working. Just trust the constitution. It works.
SHILLUE: Who since we don't teach civics in this country anymore?
WATTERS: I mean a lot of people wish President Trump was a dictator, maybe we could repeal Obamacare, and it will be a lot easier that way. I think he channeling his inner Johnny Depp, I think it is another dangerous comment, he doesn't realized what he was saying, he needs a history lesson, and how is Trump trying to tax the courts anyway? Because he nominated Neil Gorsuch to an empty sit, I think Ellison is looking for attention.
SHILLUE: Maybe. Kimberly, this is the least offensive dictator he is been compared to in a while.
GUILFOYLE: It is actually sort of charming, right? Not as bad as normal. I think they are trying to do this and get some game going for their team. You know, they think that this works. That this is like exciting, this kind of enthusiastic, it is like ok, and we will call him out. This is what we stand for. They are trying to some mojo back, but I don't think it is going so well
PERINO: More like hojo.
SHILLUE: In your interview, Ellison said that they are talking about Twitter and Juan he said that he is using his twitter account to circumvent and intimidate people to pack courts, to intimidate the press and so that he can run everything himself. Is that how you use twitter? To pack the court, I don't understand what he is talking about?
WILLIAMS: That doesn't make sense to me but what does make sense, this is a guy who fired the acting Attorney General by the FBI Director, gone off on the intelligence community, fractured I mean what's going on in congress right now.
WATTERS: Draining the swamp.
WILLIAMS: Not him, he is not taking responsibility. It sounds like he just wants to be the king. He wants to say here's what I want, let's do it. Let's do it right now. And if you don't do it, we got to get you out of here and I will bring out Scaramucci, he is my guy. He is my executioner and we are going to cut heads.
SHILLUE: Dana made a perfect point, if you don't get it done. Everything he tries to do, he is got the court striking this down. It shows you that the system works.
WILLIAMS: The system works only to a point where people resist. I know there are a lot of Republicans who hear the word "resist" and say terrible, they are trying to obstruct President Trump. That is not what this should be. It should be that he is President, you respect the President and people cooperate. I think that is just not what's going on, because of the way he is behaving and part of that is viewed by so many Americans as acting like an autocrat.
WATTERS: Not that many Americans, because he sure beat Hillary.
WILLIAMS: Not in the popular vote, let's not forget.
WATTERS: That is not what we count, Juan.
SHILLUE: What happened?
GUILFOYLE: What happened?
WATTERS: He won the Electoral College.
SHILLUE: A very special "One more thing" is up next.
PERINO: Welcome back to the five. And we have "One more thing," tonight. New Yorker reporter Ryan Lizza has just responded to a tweet from Anthony Scaramucci about his interview with him. The White House Communication Director said in a post tonight, that he made a mistake in trusting a reporter, it won't happen again. Blaming Ryan Lizza for publishing his quote, here is the reporter's reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is not a matter of trust, it's a matter of us -- the reporters and journalists trying to explain who these people are to the American people. When you do and on the record interview with someone, it is standard operating procedure that that interview then gets reported.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: I think it's one of those things where you get on the phone with somebody and you just forget to say this is off the record or something or maybe you didn't think you had to, Kimberly. I don't think it will happen again.
GUILFOYLE: I think when you are Director of Communications assume that everything is going to be recorded, or stated, et cetera, or even if you stay off the record. When I used to be first lady or somebody at the D.A. Office, I would say ten times off the record, just keep saying it. I didn't have any trust, because I had been burned by reporters. They want to get their name out there. You've got to be extra, extra careful. When you think you are dealing with someone you've dealt with before and they are asking these questions and you are venting, in this day and age they are going to put it all up there.
PERINO: To see. Jesse, reporters are not your friends, you can be friendly with them but they have a job to do. If you give them something, they are going to run with it.
WATTERS: I'm your friend. You can talk to me. I'm not going to burn you. I would like to trust Scaramucci because I don't trust the New Yorker magazine. They've done some vicious things against this channel specifically for decades. So I am going to side with Scaramucci on this one, he probably did get burned. But I don't know what happened so I don't want to speculate. Who knows really what went down?
SHILLUE: Jesse doesn't trust reporters. He puts his feet in people's garage doors to get the interview.
PERINO: Juan, the media has a low approval rating. The popularity is way down. At this point, I don't if they can they afford to make any mistakes? I actually think the reporter is telling the truth. What do you think as a reporter?
WILLIAMS: Well I mean my impression is that Scaramucci said I didn't insult Steve Bannon. I did not offer my psychiatric diagnosis of Reince Priebus and say he is out. He basically said oh, well, maybe you should not have said it. He never said he set it off to record. He said that he trusted the reporter.
GUILFOYLE: He was trusted that it was off the record. I don't think --
WILLIAMS: He said I trusted the guy. He didn't say it was off the record. That is why I don't think he has the leg to stand and he is talking about an image. The substance of what he said stands and is quite disturbing that this is going on in the White House and this is the kind of relationship that is being bent and broken under President Trump.
PERINO: There is resentment among senior staffers and somebody's going to have to fix it and I think as the President said in the campaign, I alone can fix it. He is the commander in chief and of the White House.
GUILFOYLE: That was a CNN interview earlier, if we can play a clip of it on Scaramucci said, you know I don't know if it's repairable or not, it will be up to the President to decide, he is the shot caller. We serve at his pleasure and we will see what happens. We've been hearing stories for a long time now about White House shakeup, and the President not happy. So, let's see, I mean trying to get people around that he trust and he felt that would represent him well.
WATTERS: Spicer and Reince might be doing "dancing with the stars" together.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I think he really wants Spicer.
PERINO: Do you think Spicer should do "Dancing with the stars"?
SHILLUE: Yes, he should do it.
PERINO: Would you do it?
SHILLUE: Are you kidding me? I would win it.
PERINO: Set your DVR and never miss an episode of "The Five." You know what? "Hannity" is up next.
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