Transcript

Bolling: Sebastian Gorka vs. the mainstream media

Wake Up, America: What happened to the tolerant left?

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Fox News Specialists," July 14, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KATHERINE TIMPF, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kat Timpf along with Eric Bolling and Mo Elleithee who's filling in for Eboni K. Williams. We are "The Fox News Specialists."

New names raising new questions about Donald Trump Jr. meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya. Fox News' John Roberts reporting a short time ago that there may have been at least eight people in attendance in that sit down. That includes a Russian-America lobbyist who reveals he's also attended the June 2016 meeting between the Russian lawyer, Trump, Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort. The lobbyist, Rinat Akhmetshin, is a veteran of Soviet military counterintelligence unit. He has also reported ties to Russian intelligence, which is an accusation that he's denying, of course. Akhmetshin told the Associated Press today that the meeting was, quote, non-substantive, and he, quote, actually expected more serious discussion. Changing stories, raising issues for you, Eric, at all?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I'm sorry. I'm looking for the note where it says Trump, Jr., did anything wrong. No, I don't see anything in there that he did anything -- again, there were more people -- OK. So, I guess you could make the case that there are more people that he didn't mention before. But, I mean, honestly, it was a meeting, it was a sit down, it was portrayed as some opposition research, it ended up being something about an adoption policy program that we were -- that was being pulled, that these people were lobbying for. And at the end of the day, there's not much stand there for me still.

TIMPF: Why the changing stories, Mo? What do you think?

MO ELLEITHEE, GUEST HOST: That's my question.

TIMPF: Right.

ELLEITHEE: Why all the changing stories. Look, there will be a robust discussion and debate, I'm sure, about whether or not this was collusion or not, whether it was wrong or not to take the meeting in the first place. I think it was. We can have an honest debate on that. But in the long time communication strategy.

BOLLING: Would you think it was collusion?

ELLEITHEE: I think there's a lot of smoke here.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLEITHEE: Hold on, Eric. Look, my point is this, I think when a hostile foreign government comes in and says it wants to give you information against your opponent that should send up a lot of red flags.

BOLLING: But he said.

ELLEITHEE: But, look, let me finish my other point. Let me finish my other point, which is for a White House that has been out there Trumpeting transparency around this whole thing because Donald, Jr. sent out the emails? Every day there is more to the story. As a communications strategist, I wonder what they're doing because it certainly does not put.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I respect that part of it. But the part I'm pushing back on is - - you threw it right there right up the top, Mo. You said do you think there's collusion? I'm trying to find out who colluded to do what?

TIMPF: And we've got a lot of time to talk about it, all right. But first, we got to meet the specialists. He's a Democratic former U.S. congressman from Ohio, he's also a former mayor of Cleveland, and he ran twice for president in 2004 and 2008, but he specializes in rescuing dogs and cats, so you know that he's a good guy, Dennis Kucinich is here. And he's a former law professor, the former deputy director of Voice of America, and the current co-chair of Project 21, an advocacy group for center-right African-Americans, but he specializes in the legal system and coalition building, Horace Cooper is here. We can all get involved in what I'm sure will be a very lively discussion. Horace, I just want to ask you. Does this raise any concerns to you that it keeps changing the story?

HORACE COOPER, FORMER LAW PROFESSOR: What raises concerns for me are the casually people use legal terms like claiming this treason, or collusion, etcetera, or that the Russian government did something. Last time I checked, if these were the 1950's, and you said because someone from the Soviet Union was involved in anything, that that was called redbaiting. It required you to actually identify what policy, what requirement, what expectation was being made by the official government of the former Soviet Union. Now we have people one of whom is a citizen of the United States now, because he was born in Russia, it's OK to just simply dismiss and washed all of his actions as if he's an agent of the country from which he was born. I used to think that was called un-American to do that on people based on where they were born.

TIMPF: That, of course, is a separate issue. Specifically -- I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to be a lawyer. But as a human being if there's anybody that starts changing stories, I say, why are you doing that. Dennis, what do you think?

DENNIS KUCINICH, FORMER OHIO CONGRESSMAN: I'm not a lawyer, either. I just play one on TV.

TIMPF: Oh, OK.

KUCINICH: I was chairman of a congressional investigative subcommittee, so I get a feel for the flow of events and what people say. Here's where I read this. The Trump organization politically inexperience, so there may be inconsistencies in the stories. But when I look deeper at this meeting, let's say with his attorney, this attorney set the meeting under false pretenses. End up talking about anything relating to so-called dirt. And it turns out this person was also working to change some congressional legislation. So I look at that. And even more beyond that, what really blows my mind that it had a lot more has been made of it, this group that she was somehow connected with was doing opposition research on Donald Trump. So what is this? This is like a hall of mirrors. And big picture, I think this thing is a bunch of nothing. I really do.

BOLLING: Can I follow up on the congressman? So this Fusion GPS is what we're talking about.

KUCINICH: Right.

BOLLING: Somehow connected through one of these people who are at the meeting, not sure which one, one of them -- so Natalia Veselnitskaya connected to Fusion GPS, who also was connected, Fusion GPS, to the opposition research -- the Russian dossier completely correct. Christopher Steele, the British operative who put together this Russian dossier somehow got payment from Fusion GPS. So, instead of pointing the finger at Donald Trump, Jr., saying maybe he's colluding -- Mo, big word, colluding with the Russians, maybe the Russians was colluding with Hillary Clinton. They had information on Donald Trump.

ELLEITHEE: Here's what concerns me, right. The one part of the sequence that's really concerning to me is where it said that this person has information that would damage your opponent. It is part of the Russian government's effort.

BOLLING: All lies. All lies.

ELLEITHEE: But Donald Trump, Jr. did not know that before he walked into that meeting. He took the meeting. That should have sent up a red flag.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLEITHEE: The fact that this story keeps changing should send up another red flag.

KUCINICH: Mo, you know, I understand the concerns of expressed, but I'd like to go, you know, a little bit deeper. And that is that the log reads receiving something of value, he didn't receive anything of value. It was nothing. And whatever his intention was to get information. Look, I've been in politics a long time. People come to you and they say, hey, guess what I've got? If it's nothing, it's nothing. And nothing plus nothing equals nothing. And I don't think there is anything here. If I did, let me tell you, I wouldn't hesitate to say it. I've been a chairman of investigative subcommittee. I don't see it.

BOLLING: Let me throw something else, Mo. So Veselnitskaya was originally turn down for a visa, and she reapplied through the -- so state department says no, but the DOJ, Loretta Lynch, says yes, we'll let you in. Why would the state department allow Veselnitskaya in when the state department said no? And then, also, know about this meeting. Now there's indication that the state department even knew this meeting was going to happen. There may have been a FISA court order.

TIMPF: Eric, I want to ask you. Do you think that this lawyer is dangerous or just a lawyer? Because I know you've said.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Kat, after she left this meeting, she went to D.C. She's spent eight days in D.C. She was lobbying people in D.C., congress people. She showed up at a congressional testimony. She was knocking on doors for her.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: It was the adoption issue that she was consistent with. I think.

COOPER: So they did a bait and switch?

BOLLING: Yes.

COOPER: But let's go back to the 601 waiver, which you identified. This is an extraordinary issue and document. It isn't granted across the board. A high-level, doesn't have to be the attorney general, but a high-level individual approved this. And this is after she had been denied. And then, when you have this high-level approval, she's allowed to extend beyond its operational time point and nobody is watching her. But it's now Donald Trump, Jr.'s job to keep up with who she is and what she is doing? It would be.

BOLLING: If she's dangerous. If she's dangerous it goes back to Obama's.

ELLEITHEE: What he knew was that someone with ties to the Russian government in an attempt to support his father's candidacy had information they wanted to share about Hillary Clinton. That, in and of itself, any other campaign operative I have ever met in my life, on either side of the aisle.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLEITHEE: Hold on. This is something worth.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: A very astute political advisor would say, hey, that's probably not politically expedient for you to do. Now, OK. I'll give you that. Certainly it wasn't illegal.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLEITHEE: It gets more than an issue of political expedience.

COOPER: I challenge the finding that he understood when he met with her that she had specific high-level ties with the Russian senior leadership. I challenge that.

ELLEITHEE: The email said it.

TIMPF: The email said that.

COOPER: She's puffing.

ELLEITHEE: But he did not know that.

COOPER: But what he's trying to do is get the information. What he's trying to do is get the information. And as soon as he got into the meeting, he realized, you know what? I got duped. But you know what? I got duped last week on something else. And I got duped a week before on something else.

TIMPF: And give him some credit. Maybe he's not been duped so much.

KUCINICH: It's a political inexperience here that reflects. And I think that Donald Trump, Jr. has learned a lesson, and I hope it's a valuable lesson. But, you know, right now, I'm trying to figure out if this story belongs on a Ludlum novel or it belongs to Mad Magazine? Five versus five, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The mainstream media loves this story. They're going wall to wall with it for the last -- just give me one shred of evidence. Give me one thing that he did or they did that breaks campaign finance law or breaks laws that govern everyone else.

ELLEITHEE: The email chain raises a whole lot of questions. That is legitimate for the investigation to look at.

BOLLING: He hasn't broken any laws, though, Mo.

ELLEITHEE: I think the investigation will find that out. Maybe they will come to that conclusion, Eric. But, man, does it raise questions that are legitimate questions.

BOLLING: Like what? Don't take opposition research from someone who says they have it?

ELLEITHEE: No.

TIMPF: From a hostile force.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Would you say the Ukrainian government would be equally as concerning to you as a political advisor.

TIMPF: Absolutely not.

BOLLING: Why?

TIMPF: Ukraine and Russia, we have different relationships with those countries. I'm not defending that either. I think that was wrong. I think what the DNC did.

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: I agree with you that what the DNC did in Ukraine was wrong. I completely agree with that. But if you think that's the same as what Donald Trump, Jr. did, then you'd think that what he did was wrong or you think the Ukraine was not wrong?

BOLLING: Hillary Clinton is far more in violation of everything we're about than what happened with Donald Trump Jr.

TIMPF: Why is that?

BOLLING: It's nothing.

KUCINICH: It's a nothing burger.

TIMPF: But he wanted -- I mean, it was failed -- collusion, if used colloquially.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I want all the money in the bank of New York, also. But I didn't go and steal it. And I'm not going to jail for wanting that either.

(CROSSTALK)

KUCINICH: We need to seriously work to improve our relationship with Russia.

TIMPF: Agree.

KUCINICH: We -- and we have to clear a way of all the dossiers, all of the fake issues, and get to real issues such as nuclear disarmament, environment, and other things. And we spent a lot of time on this and it's going nowhere. I don't care how many investigations they have. I've seen these kinds of investigations going nowhere.

ELLEITHEE: And I guess I would disagree with you, congressman, in that I don't think serious allegations about the Russian government trying -- whether or not they were successful, trying to meddle in our electoral process is a serious issue.

KUCINICH: I don't know if they have done that.

(CROSSTALK) ELLEITHEE: It could be China, it could be.

KUCINICH: Mo, it hasn't been proven that Donald Trump.

ELLEITHEE: What this special investigation is like.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLEITHEE: . and multiple intelligence agencies have said yes.

KUCINICH: Well, yeah. I mean, who knows if that's the political statement or a forensic statement. I mean, really.

ELLEITHEE: You know, I think we've all be giving U.S. intelligence agencies some credit here, as oppose to the Kremlin's mouthpieces.

KUCINICH: Well, this happened during a previous administration. It's political.

TIMPF: All right. President Trump, in other news, health care is still a thing, guys. President Trump is turning up the heat on senate Republicans to get their health care bill over the line. Will moderates seal its fate? The latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: President Trump dialing up the pressure on senate Republicans to repeal and replace Obamacare. The president tweeting earlier today, quote, Republican senators are working hard to get their failed Obamacare replacement approved, I will be at my desk, pen in hand. The president also tweeting, quote, after all of these years of suffering through Obamacare, Republican senators must come through as they have promised. But a number of centrist Republicans are now reportedly digging in their heels demanding better funding for Medicaid and helping poor Americans by health insurance. So I'll bring it around, Horace. Let's start with you. Your thoughts on whether or not this bill has a chance of becoming a law?

COOPER: I'm actually -- I'm kind of pessimistic. I know that the senate majority leader is the kind of guy that can pull a rabbit out of the hat. But I think this is a lot harder than even he and with the skills that he brings on to the table. What I predict is MOAB, the mother of all bills. And it's coming. And it is going to be a debt ceiling. It is going to be the government's annual budget. It's going to be health care reform, and it's going to have some infrastructure in it, and it will obviate the need for the 50 vote, or the 51 vote majority. It will operate with 60 because if you don't do it, the government stays shut until enough recalcitrant Democrats come along, maybe they get a little something, but that happens sometime in October.

BOLLING: Congressman, there's this bill seems to have -- there're these goodies that keep coming. These multi -- I heard a $45 billion goody for someone, a $20 billion goody for another, a billion dollar goody for an Alaskan senator. This is part of the problem with D.C., right?

KUCINICH: When are the American people going to get the goodies in terms of adequate health care, insurance policies they can afford, get rid of the high deductibles. Look, health care is a major economic concern, but it also reflects what kind of a nation we are. I mean, this is a nation, we're United States, we must be united for our people's health and because that's wealth. And we need to think about how the insurance companies are making money not providing health care.

And one thing I'd like to inject into this discussion that's never been brought up before in any of the debates, each one of us has a responsibility for our own health to an extent. And if we encourage personal responsibility, if we encourage prevention as part of it, we can lower health care costs. We can also make it possible to have a system where everyone is covered in America. That's what I stand for. I've written a legislation as a member of congress, Medicare for all. But Horace, I don't know that congress can slip this present bill into an overall budget bill because if they do, they'll shut down the government.

COOPER: Oh, it's going to shut down. That's part of the problem is if they don't get the 50 votes here, it's not going to pass. And then they're going to have the problem of what do you do to get those unhappy conservatives on board with the budget, with the debt ceiling, those people are not going to be satisfied with just giving a rubber-stamp to let things go as normal.

BOLLING: I'm sorry. I want to bring in Kat in because that sounds terrible to me.

TIMPF: Yeah.

BOLLING: That sounds terrible not only from a personal standpoint from an American citizen. It sounds terrible from a Republican standpoint that when you shut down the government, they tried it before -- it didn't work out so well. It was really, really bad for them.

TIMPF: Absolutely. And when we talk about health care, I know you and I are in complete agreement on this issue that this bill is a bad bill. It - - I mean, is Paul Ryan a conservative or is he not actually conservative? Are a lot of these GOP congressmen actually conservatives? And if they say they are, what does that mean? Because I never thought conservative meant $200 billion bailout to insurance companies. I just simply didn't.

COOPER: Because the bigger the bailout, the fewer the number of votes for people who believe in liberty and limited government are going to be there.

(CROSSTALK) TIMPF: I understand what you're saying, politically. I'm saying that I'm terrified for the future of our republic as a free country. I think that this bill shows that we may have gone so far left that there's no turning back at this point.

BOLLING: Mo, I write a book called, The Swamp, and I take shot of people on both sides of the aisle. One of my problems with this bill is I'm questioning leadership on the Republican side on both the house and senate. You know, they didn't do the things that Congressman Kucinich says lowering the cost of health care. They're just playing around the edges. It feels a lot like Obamacare. That feels a lot like the swamp to me.

ELLEITHEE: Well, I don't know a lot of Democrats that would say this feels like Obamacare, right. But I do think that you're right, right? One of the things I learned a long time ago is when my opponents are making a case for me, I should just shut up. And you guys are making the case very effectively that this bill isn't doing what it says it's supposed to do. And that's why you're seeing conservative members of congress and moderate Republicans members of congress at each other throat's here. It's not lowering the cost of health care. For a lot of people, it is going to decrease access as projected right now under the current law. It is a no- win situation for anybody.

BOLLING: Do you know who wins? The health care lobby. The health care -- and health care lobby. And maybe that's why the real issues have never been addressed yet on both sides.

KUCINICH: You're right on that, absolutely.

TIMPF: I agree.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there. Next up, a federal judge, yet again, weakens President Trump's travel ban. Can the judicial activism be stopped? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ELLEITHEE: A federal judge in Hawaii leveling a new hit on President Trump's travel ban against six Muslim majority countries. In his ruling, U.S. district judge, Derek Watson, has widely expanded the types of family members from those six countries that must be exempt from the ban, now to include grandparents, grandchildren, brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, aunt, uncles, nieces, nephews, and cousins, of people in the U.S. The Justice Department announcing this afternoon that it will appeal the ruling. Horace, let me start with you. What's wrong with -- I mean, my grandparents, you know, my cousins, my uncles and aunts, are they family?

COOPER: If Judge Watson were sitting in my class, we'd have to call him in afterward for some special remedial attention. Here's the fact. The policy that a judge is supposed to enforce is not about, what's a good idea, what's a kind way to operate, but what in fact is the law. And he is supposed to do what traditionally judges do is they give deference to the agency's interpretation of the law. And what is going to happen is either the ninth circuit or the Supreme Court are going to summarily, by summarily I mean with about nine days or less, overturn this decision. We've seen this kind of behavior before. I remember when there was a death penalty case and California was -- excuse me, the ninth circuit just didn't want to allow a death penalty to take place in the circuit. And they kept coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse. Finally, the Supreme Court said there will be no more appeals. That was dangerous.

ELLEITHEE: Congressman, let me ask you this. Let's flip that argument around, though, right? I mean, one could argue that the Trump administration's initial ruling was a huge overreach by the executive branch to define family, right?

KUCINICH: Actually, it was an overreach with respect to the constitution bringing up a religious text. But let's go beyond that. If you profess family values, that means families are valued. And if a grandfather, grandmother can't see their grandchildren, what's this about? I mean, what's happening to America?

COOPER: But that's a policy point. That is not a legal question.

KUCINICH: It's about the heart.

COOPER: Yes. I don't want radicals on the court exercising what their heart dictates. What happens if they have the opposite view that you shouldn't be with your family? But they get to say, the president has set, judges go with what their own hearts are. We absolutely have to be constrained by the law.

KUCINICH: You know I wear this constitution in a vest pocket over my heart. The heart and the constitution have to be connected. You can't have.

BOLLING: Do you know what else needs to be in there? The brain. You have to add the brain.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: That's what the court is doing. The court is 100 percent right, 9th Circuit. Look, this doesn't have to be a nice bill, a ban. It doesn't have to be good. It doesn't even have to be effective. It just has to be constitutional.

ELLEITHEE: That's correct.

BOLLING: And the Supreme Court deemed it constitutional. So they can try and pick it apart piece by piece, but once they get to a certain point.

ELLEITHEE: But again, where...

BOLLING: ... this...

(CROSSTALK)

KUCINICH: Looked, it start out with constitutional problems, OK? And I would just invite you to look at the topic of heart-centered intelligence. There's always a neural connection between the heart and the brain.

TIMPF: We all knew that this would be a little bit ambiguous, what does and does not designate a close relative or close family. I -- the travel ban, I see as security theater. I don't think it's going to -- I don't feel any safer because of it.

However, it's constitutional. The president does have the authority to do these things. And what the court's doing here, I believe, is judicial activism.

COOPER: It is.

BOLLING: That's what you just said. The ban isn't supposed to make -- the ban itself isn't supposed to keep dangerous people out and make you safer. The ban was supposed to be, let's take a breath, let's vet. Let's see if our systems are -- if they're working well enough. Slow down immigration until we find out if we're safe and what we need to fix. That was -- there was a big difference.

TIMPF: I understand. I would actually like to hear a lot more how that's going and whether those are actually being reviewed.

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: But if we're talking -- if we're talking about whether or not this is constitutional...

ELLEITHEE: We've got to move on.

TIMPF: ... clearly, this is judicial activism.

BOLLING: Hold on, wait, wait, wait.

COOPER: I worked in a government agency. You don't have double of people to both do the vetting and make sure the system works properly and actual implantation. And since the ban went into effect, the implementation has been going forward. There aren't the people around to now vet the system, just as you described.

ELLEITHEE: Well, this topic isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Coming up, it's time to wake up, America. Eric will sound off on the Trump administration's Sebastian Gorka and his recent showdowns with the mainstream media. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back to "The Fox News Specialists." Our specialists today are Dennis Kucinich and Horace Cooper. Welcome, both of you guys. Let's continue the conversation.

It's time to wake up, America. What a week it's been in the liberal wilderness that is the mainstream media. I really think I stumbled on the reason these journalists keep getting duped by their own anxious anticipation to take down Trump. They just can't believe how they got it all wrong.

Hillary was going to win, and the wildly biased liberal media was ready to heap adoration on their golden girl for years to come. Who can forget these scene from the 2015 election -- from 2015, I'm sorry -- where the liberal media was so excited for just a glimpse of their candidate's Scooby-Doo van they almost trampled each other for a peek. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the media running behind me here to chase the Scooby van. She's going around to the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we'll see her -- we'll see her very soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy in the orange pants is pretty quick. Alex, I mean, I'm looking at these people. Wow. All right. Orange Pants, he's really outnumbered now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: I think that's Jake Tapper in the orange pants. I'm not sure. Isn't that precious?

And then nine months after her loss, the media still can't get over it.

Case in point: Wednesday night, Anderson Cooper took an on-air beating in the debate with Sebastian Gorka. He should've left it right there. Instead, Cooper later brought in a stage filled of supporters to analyze the interview.

Anderson's friends tried to convince him and his audience that it wasn't such a bad beating after all that Gorka had just administered. So how did Anderson Cooper respond to all the felicitation?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: It's because he gives interviews like that, the way Donald Trump does.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It's like Don Rickles. It's like the Hungarian Don Rickles. I don't worry too much about it. But I just find it interesting that he doesn't answer questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Anderson, Anderson, Anderson. Cheap shot at Gorka using his nationality as a joke. That's so not tolerant of you.

Now, if I did that joke about someone's ethnic background, your pals in the liberal media would be calling for my head. Good thing we conservatives, Sebastian Gorka included, can laugh at your jokes.

Speaking of funny, though, couldn't pass the opportunity to remind you all of that election night in May for the special election in Georgia 6, this picture could be titled "#notwinning." They say a picture speaks a thousand words. Oh, boy, does it ever.

Now Congressman, look at the long faces on there. So what do you think about this? I mean, do you think they keep pulling these Russia stories after Russia stories, they completely missed the Trump win?

KUCINICH: Well, yes. I mean, there are people who are not over the 2016 election.

And I think it's important for the Democrats to reorganize and move forward with an agenda that will attract the attention of the American people and win their sentiments on practical matters: Economy, health care, education, retirement security, peace. Those are things that people are concerned about.

But you know, the stuff that's going on in the media, though, there's a lot of hyper partisanship that's not good for the country.

And as far as Mr. Gorka being the Hungarian Don Rickles, I think that we ought to be sensitive to it being taken as a slight to the Hungarian community, even though I knew Don Rickles; he was a wonderful comic. So let's thank the Hungarian people for their contribution to America. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BOLLING: Very, very good. Nice -- nicely done, Congressman.

Horace, your thoughts on what the media, their minds are blown that Donald Trump is president right now. But I agree with the congressmen. As long as the Democrats keep focusing on Trump and Russia, they're never going to come up with an agenda that's going to win in 2018.

H. COOPER: So it's a curious business model. This network came about, because people recognized that the majority of the American people -- and as a kid, myself, I'm one of those -- who said, "We're not being well served with a fair and balanced news network." And it appeared, and suddenly, swarms of people -- and at one point, it became so large that it was competing with ESPN and all these others. Here's what I believe is happening.

BOLLING: No, we win.

H. COOPER: Not competing. No, win.

BOLLING: Winning.

H. COOPER: CNN says, "Well, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get that smaller, much smaller group, a minority of people who have a whole different idea about America, and they wish Hillary had won. And we'll just get them to watch us. And it could actually increase our rating by 20 percent, or 30 percent." They're never going to get a majority of the American people. And in fact, they're alienating the overwhelming majority of the public.

But it's a business model that they think is worth it. It would be far better to go after all of America. And you'll see how positive that could be.

BOLLING: Kat, your thoughts on the mainstream -- do they have Trump Derangement Syndrome?

TIMPF: I think that certain people do. I just don't know why I'm not allowed to care like just kind of. To think that maybe there's something there a little bit, but it's not the only thing we should be talking about.

I feel like there's one side that says this is a nothing burger, and it's a, you know, deep-state liberal media thing. And then another thing says, for sure, Trump should be impeached.

BOLLING: Treason. Treason.

TIMPF: Treason. Putin. I just am not ready to put a tinfoil hat on, on either side right now. I'm just -- I'm not trying to be an FBI agent/psychic.

H. COOPER: Let me -- let me make a quick point.

TIMPF: I'm saying, "Hey, there are certain questions I have. Let's wait and see it play out. And can we talk about some other stuff and, you know, also this, but some other stuff, too?"

H. COOPER: Quick point.

BOLLING: Go ahead.

H. COOPER: Malaysia. When the plane crashed, it was a real story. It just didn't need to get 23 hours out of the day. This is the same thing.

BOLLING: So you're saying -- Horace is saying maybe Trump is CNN's new Malaysia?

ELLEITHEE: Well, the thing is, Malaysia wasn't ideological. It wasn't political. It was sensational. Right?

Look, I think we are in a war here between -- between politicians of both parties and the media. Right? Go back 20 years. It's not like the media went easy on questions like the Lewinsky scandal or Whitewater. That was wall-to-wall coverage. The Clinton White House felt like it was in a bunker back during those days.

Now you've got this White House saying, "Why aren't you covering anything else?"

The media is saying, "Well, because the president just tweeted about this..."

BOLLING: President Obama says -- leans over to Dmitry Medvedev and says, "After the election -- tell Putin after the election, I'll have more leeway to do things." And that -- that was ignored by the media.

ELLEITHEE: Do you know how I know about that? Because I saw it on the media. Every network.

BOLLING: Here, here. You saw it here.

ELLEITHEE: Well, I don't remember which one I was watching that day, but I know they all covered it. They all covered it, Eric.

BOLLING: They aren't covering it wall-to-wall the way they're covering everything that Trump ever -- every person that Trump meets is, you know, somehow colluding with him.

ELLEITHEE: The reality is both parties feel under siege by the media, and they're feeding the ongoing battle.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there. Straight ahead, it's "Kat on the Street." New York City is becoming more and more of stress-ridden mess. So why are so many tourists still flocking here? We all want to know. But Kat finds out, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TIMPF: It's been said that New York is the greatest city in the world. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Forbes ranks New York as the second most stressful city in America. And a new study says it's the third worst-run city in the country.

Despite it all, more than 60 million tourists visit the Big Apple for vacation. So I headed over to the tourist mecca, Times Square, to find out why they were there on purpose.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIMPF: So you guys are tourists?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we are.

TIMPF: Meaning you came to New York City for vacation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we did.

TIMPF: Where are you from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Atlanta, Georgia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From Kansas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're from Canada.

TIMPF: And you came to New York City to relax?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TIMPF: Please help me. Any tips for me in terms of how to relax in New York? Have you figured that out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I guess we're going to try to figure it out. I'm sure you've been here longer than we have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been here for about three hours.

TIMPF: Been here for three hours?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three hours.

TIMPF: You've probably aged ten years, and you just don't know it yet.

Do you feel very relaxed right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is a little tense.

TIMPF: I am a little tense all the time. That's just how it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to Niagara Falls after this, and she's ready to leave now.

TIMPF: So you are in Times Square on purpose?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. No other place in the world like it.

TIMPF: Well, that's true.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The planning was to go to Asbury Park, and I thought, well, my goodness, we can't come all the way over here and not see the city.

TIMPF: Beach condo sounds like vacation. New York? It's like if a panic attack were a city.

So what's been your favorite thing so far to see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Times Square is very nice. And the Central Park as well.

TIMPF: Central Park, vacation vibes. Times Square more like a vibe to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is. It is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just talking about that. People come here to get energized.

TIMPF: What energizes you in the city?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just the excitement. The atmosphere.

TIMPF: The atmosphere never stops. You can smell it right now.

Have you taken the subway yet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't think we're going to do that.

TIMPF: You seem very relaxed. How do you say so chill in New York City?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of wine. I'm just kidding.

TIMPF: That's what I do.

What have you done that's been so relaxing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We took the ferry to Staten Island.

TIMPF: The Staten Island ferry is relaxing. This is all very incredible information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's actually pretty stressful. It's a really big cultural shock. Very different from anything I'm used to seeing.

TIMPF: You came from New York City from Spain for a vacation. Do you feel relaxed right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

TIMPF: Sometimes I just, you know, stay under my bed, and you know, just stay there and I don't leave.

I never felt like the words "vacation" and "New York City" belonged in the same sentence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a big theater nerd. So, like, this is where the best theater is. So for me, like, doing that and seeing something new is a vacation.

TIMPF: Wow, that's like -- I do see something new every day here. Not always good stuff, though.

You look very relaxed right now. Are you relaxing in New York?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.

TIMPF: That's a very relaxed answer. He didn't even care I was asking the question. That's amazing. I need more of this attitude.

Can we talk later?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We go, like, rat watching in the subway system.

TIMPF: You go rat watching in the subways?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we do.

TIMPF: So I should be looking at the rats as my friends/a potential evening plan.

So maybe New York is kind of awesome. I just need to embrace it. Also, if anybody wants to go rat watching with me in the subway later, I'd be willing to give it a try.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TIMPF: Any takers? Rat watching?

BOLLING: No. Apparently, it's very common, though.

Look, Times Square is iconic. People come to see all the lights and everything. And Broadway, that young lady said she comes to Broadway.

TIMPF: Yes.

BOLLING: It's the best Broadway -- it's the best theater on the planet.

But did you ever notice, like, all these post-apocalyptic movies, like, the world is ending, Times Square is still kicking?

TIMPF: Yes.

BOLLING: Like, everyone meets in Times Square and they survive?

ELLEITHEE: They could make a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of tourism, right?

BOLLING: Exactly.

ELLEITHEE: Look, the most stressful thing about -- I live in D.C. Not exactly the most relaxed city in the world.

TIMPF: Right.

ELLEITHEE: The most stressful thing about New York is getting here for me. To the powers that be, if you can fix LaGuardia Airport, please! Do that! Right?

But you know, look, I love this piece. I love these real Americans from all over the country, from all over the world, who just are excited to, like, be in New York and -- you come here to see things you will not see anywhere else.

TIMPF: That is true.

You want to weigh in?

KUCINICH: Look, I'm from Cleveland.

TIMPF: Right.

KUCINICH: And next to Cleveland, New York is the greatest.

TIMPF: Cleveland is wonderful!

H. COOPER: I call that damning but faint praise.

KUCINICH: Oh, no, no, no. Cleveland is the greatest. But here...

BOLLING: Not in baseball, though.

KUCINICH: Hey!

H. COOPER: Oh!

KUCINICH: First in American League and first in the hearts of the people.

But energy, drama, excitement in the streets here. This -- there's a pulsation here. This town is alive! And so you've got to celebrate it.

TIMPF: I agree. I love living here. It's very alive, very awake. But sometimes I want to take a nap. You know what I mean.

KUCINICH: Oh, come on.

TIMPF: It's really, really hard.

BOLLING: Don't take one on the subway.

TIMPF: Yes, don't do that.

H. COOPER: Apparently not. According to what I've seen on "Drudge," it's not a good idea.

TIMPF: Not a good idea.

Well, if New York stresses you out too much, Nevada could be your cup of tea to mellow out. Recreational weed because legal there two weeks ago. There's just one problem. Booming sales have now led to a statewide shortage. Stocks are so plum dry the state's Republican governor has been forced to step in and push emergency regulations to boost the number of distributors.

You know, they're talking about million-dollar tax revenue here. Excuse me...

BOLLING: Many, yes.

TIMPF: Yes, many millions, up to 100 million in tax revenue. So yes, they should probably get it together.

BOLLING: Listen, I'm on board. Legalize it, or definitely decriminalize it across the country and legalize it. The numbers you point out, massive tax revenue to the state, and they all need it.

TIMPF: Yes, absolutely.

H. COOPER: I'm not on board on the pot legalization train. You know, if Friday night comes along and you need something, what's wrong with a little Grey Goose that you can get at the corner? Why do you need to take this opportunity that really comes with a whole host of other baggage?

TIMPF: I prefer vodka, personally. I would shoot -- yes, I'm not really a weed gal, but some people are; and that's their choice. And that should be their ability to get it legally if they want.

KUCINICH: I don't smoke. I don't drink. And I don't care if marijuana is legal.

TIMPF: Yes.

KUCINICH: And if people can make revenue out of it, they did the same thing with alcohol.

TIMPF: A hundred million is what they're saying in tax revenue, and why not? And if people, they can -- Nevada, they can probably get it anyways. They're just doing it legally, better, safer, tax revenue. Everybody is happy. Everybody should be a fan.

All right. When he return -- I bet you some people won't be -- but we special back with our specialists, Dennis Kucinich and Horace Cooper. Come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ELLEITHEE: Time to "Circle Back" with our specialists, Dennis Kucinich and Horace Cooper.

Congressman, you -- you're a Democrat. You were known to be a very liberal Democrat. But you recently slammed the Democratic Party for destroying the party as the party -- the opposition party, as effective opposition. What advice would you give to Democrats who want to make a contrast with this administration to be more effective?

KUCINICH: If you want to challenge Donald Trump, fine. But offer real alternatives. I think that, you know, the Democrats, in my view, shouldn't be locked into defending Obamacare but should be offering a real health care proposal: single-payer, Medicare for all.

The Democrats ought to stand for peace, instead of voting for continually funding wars.

The Democrats ought to stand for jobs for all. That goes in with Mr. Trump's infrastructure program.

The Democrats ought to stand for education for all. There's 32 million Americans that are -- adults, who are -- who are illiterate. We've got to do something about lifting up the country.

TIMPF: Horace, my question is for you. You say you're a political forecaster. What's the political weather looks like next week? Heavy rain, Russia, what have we got?

H. COOPER: A Trump tweet.

TIMPF: A Trump tweet, all right. That's probably 100 percent accurate.

BOLLING: Just a few more seconds right now. Go to my Twitter, take a look at the picture I posted of the congressman and I. We squared up. I said we're going to battle some liberals. You've got some good style; you've got some good form there, Congressman. A fighter?

KUCINICH: I am, a lot of practice. Actually, I'm a lover, not a fighter. I believe in peace, not war. And I love New York.

BOLLING: He's a blackbelt. He told me. You said -- he said, "Legally, I have to warn you. I'm a black belt."

KUCINICH: No, no, I said martial artist. But that was...

H. COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some jets there.

But give war a chance!

KUCINICH: It's been given a chance.

ELLEITHEE: All right, thank you. Thank you to our "Fox News Specialists" today, Dennis Kucinich and Horace Cooper.

And my thanks to everyone at Fox and "The Specialists" here for letting me sit in for Eboni K. Williams today.

We thank you all for watching. Remember, 5 p.m. will never be the same. "Special Report" is next.

BOLLING: Weekend!

TIMPF: Yes!

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.