Transcript

Are terror attacks now a sad fact of modern life?

The debate continues on 'The Fox News Specialists'

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Fox News Specialists," May 23, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALISTS: Hello, everyone. I am Eric Bolling, along with Eboni K. Williams and Kat Timpf. We are The Fox News Specialists. A lot of fast-moving developments today after last night's horrific terror attack in Manchester, England. Police are now naming the bomber as 22-year-old Salman Abedi. Abedi was born in the U.K., but is the son of a Libyan refugee family. A massive hunt is now underway for accomplices. Fox News correspondent, Rick Leventhal joins us from Manchester with the very latest. Rick?

RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS: Hey, Eric. We've just learned that the British prime minister has raised the threat level from severe to critical. So there is clearly concerned there could be a follow on attack which is awful news for the residents of the United Kingdom, and certainly for the half a million people who live here in Manchester who suffered through a horrific attack, roughly 23 hours ago. The scene much different here now behind me, you could see police are still here, the road is still close, but no screams, no sirens.

And the train station, Victoria Station, one of two main transit hub here also closed. It is connected directly to the Manchester arena, the largest indoor concert venue in the U.K., it's believed that the bomber blew himself up somewhere right between the train station and the concert venue in a public area there, just as a pack house of 21,000 people began streaming for the exits, and those people were mostly teens and preteens who had just enjoyed a Ariana Grande concert and then were headed for the exits when this suspect blew himself up with an improvised explosive device that included nuts and bolts to maximize the carnage.

The victims included 18-year-old Georgina Bethany Colander. She was a student who loved pop music and Ariana Grande, and in fact had met her a couple years ago and posted their picture together on Instagram. Another victim, an 8-year-old girl named Saffie Rose Roussos, who is mom and sisters were among the dozens of wounded, and they are among those dozens now being treated at eight area hospitals. Here's more from the prime minister who spoke just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This is now concluded on the basis of today's investigations that the threat level should be increased for the time being from severe to critical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEVENTHAL: More than 20 dead, close to 60 wounded. This is the worst attack in the U.K., Eric, since the train bombings on 7, 7, 2005, almost 12 years ago.

BOLLING: All right, Rick, thank you very much. Now let's meet today's specialists. She is a five time Emmy Award-winning broadcast journalist.

She is a former anchor at Telemundo Network News, she's an anchor of Mega- TV, and her specialty is speaking about U.S.-Hispanic issues, Elvira Salazar is here. And he's a former Republican presidential candidate, a conservative and radio talk show host, and he's the former chairman of Godfather's Pizza, but his specialty is rocket science, and I'm not kidding, Herman Cain is here. I will get to the specialists in a second.

But Eboni, I want to first talk to you about Theresa May raising the threat level from severe to critical, basically saying they believe another terror attack is imminent.

EBONI K. WILLIAMS, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Well, I'll tell you, Eric, I'm happy to see some proactivity, quite frankly, I think there's been too much reactivity, so I'm happy to hear Theresa May elevating that concern upfront and getting in front of it if indeed a second attempt is to follow.

BOLLING: And Kat, we should not think this is not irrelevant that Ariana Grande, an American artist, again, being -- you know, the concert being attacked. We think back to Bataclan where another American act was playing when another 130 peopleā€¦

KATHERINE TIMPF, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Of course, it's not irrelevant. And the fact that they were targeting -- where they knew it would be young girls. Who are Ariana Grande fans, young girls, it's very disgusting. And of course, it's an attack there, but it's an attack on us, and an attack on our way of life. I love that President Trump called them losers. I think that's great. Do they want to be called monsters? I think we need to be careful, although it is terrifying thing to not let that interfere with our way of life as much as possible.

BOLLING: Right. Herman Cain, what goes on over there doesn't necessarily go on over here, but in this case we have to be careful it doesn't.

HERMAN CAIN, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Exactly. And President Trump's initiative to do better vetting and control who comes into this country, now the people who are against that it makes them look stupid quite frankly. Because that's the one thing we can do. We can do better vetting and we can know who's here, and we can know who's overstayed their visas, but because of pushback politically, they are avoiding the common sense things that could be done.

BOLLING: Let me ask you, Elvira, do you agree with Herman Cain that we need to step up our vetting of who gets in to this country?

ELVIRA SALAZAR, LEAD ANCHOR OF MEGA TV: Oh, I have no doubt and I agree with what you're saying, but I think what President Trump did was even more important and intelligent, going to Saudi Arabia and talking to the other Muslim world. He was in front of what, 70 representatives of the Muslim world and telling them we need your help because we cannot do it alone.

And they are your enemies as well as they're ours. Ninety five percent of the victims that ISIS or al-Qaeda has hit upon or has killed are Muslim.

So what we need to do is we need to go to the root of the problem until those countries that are helping these guys become radicalized, hey, you've got to stop. You've got to stop the financing and you're going to stop helping them, or allowing the Iman's to preach this radicalized ideas based on the Koran.

TIMPF: We do need to look though at homegrown terrorism. Because, of course, this guy was born here, just like the Orlando shooter was born here. San Bernardino, one was born here, the other one was from Saudi Arabia, which, of course, not on the list of the ban that Trump is trying to get passed through, and she was here legally as well. So homegrown terrorism is a huge problem which the solutions aren't quite so easy, but it's one that we really need to take a look at.

BOLLING: I'm going to jump into that a little bit in the monologue later in the show. However, we need to note, and we did in the intro, that Mr. Abedi is the son of Libyan refugees.

TIMPF: That's true, but at the same time even Trump's ban would only be temporary for refugees, so there's really no way to vet someone son, eventually future son because he doesn't exist yet.

BOLLING: I'm sorry I cut you off. But what I was getting at was the freedom to become a refugee and get into Europe and then travel freely throughout the continent can be dangerous, can be seen as dangerous.

WILLIAMS: So what we have to do, Eric, is more than one thing at one time and I'm sure we can do it, right? We can have important constitutional extreme vetting and we can watch out for this homegrown domestic terrorism because this is ideological and we know this. We know that we have to stamp out the ideology. As Kat said, San Bernardino, homegrown, this Manchester person, born in England, so we can't just act like it's just other issue, it's that and the homegrown issue, and we have to be able to do more than one thing at a time.

CAIN: And it starts with enforcement of laws that are already there, and making sure that we know who's here, as well as better vetting of those who want to come here.

BOLLING: And Elvira, the hundreds of thousands of people overstay their visas in the United States.

SALAZAR: Absolutely. And that's why we have such an immigration problem.

But then, if you want to get into that, we can deal with that issue very quickly, e-verify, don't give them jobs.

BOLLING: Is it not the same issue, Elvira? It points to the exact same threats, whether it's a Muslim -- I'm sorry, a radical Islamic terrorists that wants to come here or someone who may want to come through our southern border. What's the difference?

SALAZAR: The difference is that the guy who is sneaking in through the southern border wants to find a job and then he gets it. And then, the person that gives him the job is as much to blame as he is.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Let me get to this. In the aftermath of the Manchester attack, some are already saying just to accept terror as a way of life. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATTY KAY, BBC ANCHOR: Europe is getting used to attacks like this. We have to because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out. As ISIS gets squeezed in Syria and Iraq, we're going to see more of these kinds of attacks taking place in Europe. And Europe is starting to get used to that. None of us are used to having children targeted in this way, young girls targeted in this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Katie Kay is basically saying we need to get used to it, but how the hell you get used to terror attacks on your own soil?

TIMPF: You absolutely shouldn't get used to it. That's what they want.

It's not just about the carnage, right? It's about the fact that it is so disgusting. It's about the fact when you see the scene and you have girls who are still wearing their little kitten ears, little Ariana Grande kitten ears, it's about trying to spread fear throughout the entire culture and destroy the way of life. To say, OK, I guess this is how it is. It's very important to not change our way of life, to now show that we're afraid, to call them losers. I thought that was the most savage, wonderful thing to say, you're losers.

CAIN: That previous clip -- forgive me for being direct. That's a silly statement to say we're going to get used to terror, when there are so many things we can do with the technology that we have, with the intelligence community that we have. With all the resources we have, we do not have to settle for it, as some people are suggesting. We can do a lot about it.

And to Kat's point, about the way of life, the reason the people who do this are losers is because their way of life has lost against our way of life. That's really the big difference between how they think and how we think. They are jealous of us having the biggest economy in the world, and the most powerful military in the world, and the most freedom in the world.

WILLIAMS: I agree wholeheartedly, Mr. Cain. And I would go a step further and say I utterly reject what Katie was saying there. Because here's the thing, it's goes to down to foreseeability to your point. Many of this -- this guy was already on their watch, Eric. They knew. They were already looking at him. San Bernardino, already looking at him, a ten month probe on the Orlando shooter, so we're doing a lot very right around identifying these potential threats but we're doing something very wrong, Eric, about following up.

(CROSSTALK)

SALAZAR: The Orlando terrorist.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SALAZAR: Under the Miami.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SALAZAR: So I cover the Orlando terrorist. He was like a week before he went to the place where he bought all the ammunition in order to conduct the attack, and he also wanted to buy a heavy set armor, body armor. And then the guy -- the owner of the store said no, I'm not going to sell that to you. And then, he turned around and he called the FBI, and the FBI never followed up. The FBI would have been able stopped the Orlando massacre if the FBI would have kept a closer eye.

BOLLING: So why are we concerned with Donald Trump saying I want to be careful, I want to vet people from these seven nations, not Muslim people, but seven nations that have known ties to terror. Why are we so upset with his proposal?

TIMPF: Because of his past comments. That's the interpretation because of his past comments. It's completely legal, without a question, for a president to ban based on immigration, based on geographic location because -- we even had Rudy Giuliani come out and say Trump asked him how to do the Muslim ban legally. So there are signs -- this is the courts point of view, I'm not even taking -- I'm just saying their argument is that it is a religious ban based on his own past statement.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But they rejected Rudy's account of that as well, and they pushed back. And clearly, I mean, these are six of the seven in President Trump's nation moratorium came from President Obama himself. So it's clearly not a Muslim ban.

WILLIAMS: True, Eric, on its face. But absent candidate Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail -- see, this is where that rhetoric is going back to haunt him, as Kat say, he specifically talked about banning Muslims. Now, though, what you're saying is right, this notion of a geographical target around criminally profiling areas where we know these types of terror arises.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: For the safety of America, do we not want to go on what President Trump has put on paper as President Trump and forget what he said as a candidate because people say a lot of things.

(CROSSTALK)

SALAZAR: Look at the way he was treated when he went to Saudi Arabia. They treated him like a king.

WILLIAMS: They loved him.

SALAZAR: They loved him. So if they were so offended by what President Trump.

TIMPF: They would be too influential to ban.

SALAZAR: There Muslim brothers were on the list of the ban.

WILLIAMS: Quarter figure out for us, right Eric?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The reality is, we have a lot more on this topic. President Trump calling for all civilized nations to obliterate terrorism in the wake of the Manchester attack, how can he rally support during this crucial European leg of his next trip. I mean, his next leg of his trip in Europe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Confronting terrorism was already a major part of President Trump's focus on his first foreign trip. And now, after the Manchester attack it is taken center stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I won't call them monsters because they would like that term. They would think that's a great name. I will call them, from now on losers because that's what they're. They're losers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: President Trump also delivering a forceful call for U.S. allies to rally against the Islamic terror threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We must drive out the terrorists and the extremists from our midst.

Obliterate this evil ideology and protect and defend our citizens and people of the world.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So how should this Manchester attack impact President Trump's anti-terrorist strategy moving forward? I'm going to you first, Elvira.

SALAZAR: One percent of the population of the United States is Muslim. I think we should go to the mosques and talk to them and become friends with them, and tell them that the FBI and all of the law enforcement agencies, they are friends, not enemies. And keep an eye on the youngsters that have gone back to the country of origin of their parents and become radicalized, people that have become very religious all of a sudden, check on their website what they're writing on Facebook, social media, Instagram, talk to their friends, and keep an eye on them. The FBI is keeping an eye on hundreds and hundreds of Muslim youngsters that may become radicalized. That's why I think we haven't had so many attacks like Europe.

WILLIAMS: OK. So I hear that and I can appreciate that from a legal perspective, particularly. But I'm going to turn to you, Kat, because this gets into a very delicate space of this balance between public safety and civil liberties because some people can say about what you're describing sounds like profiling. Now, as an attorney, criminal profiling is an important and effective criminal investigation tool that keeps America and other countries safer.

TIMPF: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: But racial profiling, Kat, is a whole another thing. It's unconstitutional. And when you start talking about targeting people on the basis of religion, how do you feel about that slippery slope?

TIMPF: I don't feel great about it, especially, because we need to really think about before we try to make policy changes from an emotional place. I understand that this is a very, very emotional issue. But when you look at a lot of the things that people try to do in practice to stop terrorism, look at what happened in Manchester. There were all these metal detectors, all these security, so he just moved the bomb a little further outside.

You go to the airport, and everything is such an involved process. There's nobody in the parking lot. There're 20 groups of people everywhere. We need to make sure to not destroy our own civil liberties with policies trying to prevent a threat because that's a threat to our way of life too.

WILLIAMS: But Herman Cain, do you think that at some point we have to recalibrate this balance? Because, historically, Kat's right, and ultimately the courts have always sided with the civil liberties part being a little bit more important from my perspective, but do you think it's to recalibrate that?

CAIN: Yes. And it starts with allowing the agencies to do their jobs. They have tools to recalibrate but because everybody is so politically sensitive about being politically correct, you don't make policies based upon sound bites. And eight years, for eight years, the authorities were afraid to do their jobs because they were going to be thrown under the bus. This president has said I'm not going to throw you under the bus. If we're going to err, let's err on the side of preventing an attack.

TIMPF: We saw that with San Bernardino.

CAIN: Yes.

TIMPF: People were afraid to say something. I completely agree with you there.

BOLLING: Well, I think that is the most important tool we have is we have 330 million people, if you see something, say something. Point out very stately.  Elvira, you talked about San Bernardino in the a-block that these families was turned over to the FBI, but the problem is, neighbors saw stuff going on at their house and they felt if they did say something they were going to be called Islamaphobic, so they didn't say something. So our most effective tool clearly is that. I would also say that the temporary travel moratorium is going to be important because it tells the world you're not going to just walk in here, you're just not going to come over here and if you have some sort of jihad against the western society, which they do.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Well, that's what it is. It really is just extreme vetting. It's not a ban. It's a temporary moratorium from areas, not religions as you've said earlier, but from areas of the world were terror is a hotbed.

WILLIAMS: You know what, Eric, I think the messaging on that has to be a lot cleaner, and I'm not speaking just to the Trump administration, I mean in general. We have to understand that that's a different thing. What you're talking about make sense. I think most people would be on board with it. I think the messaging somehow gets all convoluted and we end up with something that sounds like racial or religious profiling.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And they're very specific. The Trump administration has now rewritten that.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Pointing out that has nothing to do with race nor religion just origin.

SALAZAR: Putting that aside, President Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia and somehow changing the rules or at least changing the perception the way that the Muslim world sees us or sees him where he is saying we're not here because we don't want to clash of civilizations. We want to be your friend. We want you to help us. We are here to protect you against Iran, which is another big problem that they have, and ISIS and al Qaeda. So right now, I think that somehow the Muslim world will look at us with a different eye.

TIMPF: Eric, I just want to point out also that there are people in this country now who are here legally that have family in those countries, so that's why it's a sensitive issue. They're worried about, can their family come see them? Can they go see their family and come back?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: They did clear that up. If you had visas, people who were holding visas, people who had family in the country had the freedom to come here. Can I pose this to anyone who wants to jump in? Where are the moderate Muslims in America who are stepping up and becoming more forceful in the fight against jihad or calling out terror cells that we know are happening in this country?

SALAZAR: We have to strengthening them. That's why I'm saying we have to go back to the roots here in the United States to the mosques and talk to them and say we need your help. One percent of the population, almost 3 million Muslims, we need you more than the FBI because they are the ones that will tell us who are the bad hombres in the Muslim world.

WILLIAMS: I totally agree. Top current and former intelligence officials are testifying on Capitol Hill today, but it may have raise more questions than answers about the Russia investigation, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TIMPF: The Russia investigation in the spotlight on Capitol Hill today with top, current, and former intelligence officials testifying in separate hearings. It comes just after a new strike by leakers, this time alleging in the Washington Post that President Trump had asked intelligence chiefs to publicly deny collusion between his campaign and Russia. The collusion question played big during former CIA director John Brennan's hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TREY GOWDY, R-SOUTH CAROLINA: Did evidence exist of collusion, coordination, conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russian state actors?

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I don't know whether or not such collusion, that's your term, such collusion existed. I don't know. But I know there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not U.S. persons were actively conspiring, colluding with Russian officials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIMPF: So Brennan doesn't know if actual collusion occurred by the Trump team despite his worries about the interference. So, yeah, I'm pretty much only interested in actual collusion at this point. I thought the way the Trump's team handled it today was perfect. When they were ask about it, a White House spokesperson said, yeah, we're not confirming or denying anonymous things that leakers. I think that -- I want to see proof. I'm glad the investigation is going on. I'm happy to see it continuing, but more anonymous leaks, OK.

CAIN: This whole thing and some of the articles that have come out of this just illustrates -- it provides just enough buzzwords for speculation. No proof, no sources, no facts, just more speculation. So the liberal media is going to pick up on some of these phrases and run with it. For example, they're going to run with -- they're not going to run with require further investigation, they're going to speculate on a conclusion and try to find something to substantiate the conclusion. That's what's wrong with all of these confusion factors that they're generating.

TIMPF: I think people are being a little bit less interested in it now, though, even the beginning of this week.

BOLLING: Well, I'm not sure. I think the left and the mainstream media will eat this up as long as there is something to eat. Look, here's a great opportunity where you have an Obama appointee, a director, former FBI director, who says, "You know what? I've got no conclusion -- no collusion. I have no evidence; I have no proof. I don't even have interference, proof of interference."

Yet, there he is testifying and there he is kind of leaning left and kind of give, as Herman Cain points out, providing sound bites for the left- leaning media. All day long, that's all I heard. That's all I heard, was that framed as John Brennan basically saying, yes, the Russians were involved in some form or some way in our elections.

WILLIAMS: Which nobody disputes.

TIMPF: Right. Just wait and see what it finds, though.

BOLLING: There's no evidence of collusion, and that's the only thing that could actually be wrong or illegal.

WILLIAMS: Quick question, though, Eric. What is Brennan saying, in your view, that's leaning left? Didn't he just make a flat answer to Congressman Gowdy's question?

BOLLING: Yes, here's exactly what he said. Did the Russians get involved in the U.S. elections? And he said, "Yes, I honestly think they did."

But then he was further asked, "Well, did Trump have anything to do with it and did it actually influence the outcome of the elections?" And both of those answers were no. That's where you should say, OK...

WILLIAMS: Look, he didn't say, right?

BOLLING: Yes, but the left plays this up.

WILLIAMS: That's not him; that's not Brennan.

BOLLING: "See, the Russians got involved." Guess what? They've been involved for 100 years, though.

TIMPF: The right has done the same thing on many other issues. OK? This is a normal thing to be done. At least there's an investigation but we can see what happens. The best thing that can happen for President Trump would be, OK, there's nothing. So nobody should be upset about an investigation.

WILLIAMS: A completed investigation. And I think that's the thing, Eric. We go back and forth. Let me finish this for one second. We go back and forth about this many times during the week. Nobody's saying there's any evidence, and it might end up that there is nothing. If there's no smoke, that's all good.

BOLLING: But no one gets to that completion.

WILLIAMS: The investigation is not complete.

BOLLING: You know, to get to the end zone, to get to -- the clock ends, stops and they say, "You know what? Let's have another game. Let's start the clock."

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

TIMPF: Get Elvira in here. Come on.

WILLIAMS: Go ahead.

SALAZAR: The Washington Post article is very interesting. I think we should read it very carefully. Because at the end, at the bottom of the article, it says that Michael Rogers, who is the NSA director, said that President Trump allegedly told him that, if there is no evidence, say it; if there is no evidence. And what the headline is saying is that Trump said to Rogers, "Hey, say there is no evidence." So that "if" is very important. It's a small world -- word, but it's very big in the context.

We have to understand that, apparently, the president said to Rogers, "If there is no investigation, go out publicly and say it." That's not correct either, because President Trump at the time apparently didn't know that Rogers could not say one way or the other. But proof is on the article.

So I don't understand why The Washington Post didn't put that in the lead.

TIMPF: People are -- people are starting to move away from the collusion stuff and into the obstruction stuff.

SALAZAR: OK, so now -- all right.

TIMPF: The earlier point was, are people getting a little tired of it? But eventually, we have to just let this run its course. There's really no other answer.

BOLLING: Did they have any evidence or proof of the obstruction of justice?

TIMPF: They don't have...

WILLIAMS: That's padlocked .

TIMPF: They don't have anything yet, but why not let it continue? Of course, they're going to let it continue.

All right. Leakers and their allies on the left are turbocharged in their new strategy to go after President Trump, pushing an obstruction of justice narrative at all costs, regardless of the facts. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back to "The Fox News Specialists." Our specialists today are Elvira Salazar and Mr. Herman Cain.

So we're going to continue our conversation. Leakers' new strike against President Trump in The Washington Post is showcasing a fresh strategy from the mainstream media. They failed to reveal any actual hard evidence of collusion, so now it's all about obstruction of justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TED LIEU, D-CALIFORNIA: What's the president did firing James Comey and then saying he did it to relieve pressure on himself because of the FBI investigation, is the classic case of obstruction of justice, a federal crime.

CHRIS MATTHEW, MSNBC ANCHOR: What's more needed to prove obstruction of justice than the president fires the guy coming after him, after asking him to drop the case?

REP. RUBEN GALLEGO, D-ARIZONA: There's clearly some indication of obstruction of justice.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: If you just parse the words that Donald Trump says, it does seem very close to a confession of obstruction of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: This is...

WILLIAMS: But is their obsession with obstruction just another grasp in the dark that will come up empty-handed? Mr. Cain, I was going to go to you anyway. What do you -- what do you think?

CAIN: This is another indication of phrases that the liberal media wants to grab, the Democrats want to grab.

Listen to this. The mere fact that he fired James Comey, no, that's not conclusive. What's more needed, according to Chris Matthews? How about evidence? How about "clearly some indication"? Clearly what? Based upon what? And this is the craziest one. "If you just parse the words." Are we supposed to parse words or develop policy and take action based upon actual evidence?

None of this adds up to anything except more malarkey, more distraction, more delays in getting this president's agenda across. I'm not mad at you all. I'm just passionate.

TIMPF: Malarkey. Malarkey is such a good word.

WILLIAMS: I love a good malarkey.

Eric Bolling, let me hear it now.

BOLLING: The libs and the Democrats, mainstream media have moved from collusion to obstruction of justice; and then they add in Watergate. And again, we'll talk about this.

So Nixon fired Archibald Cox after there was a crime and a crime proven, a trial. People pled guilty to things.

As far as this is concerned, there's nothing. There's no smoking gun. There's no evidence. There's no collusion. There's no tampering with evidence, no tampering with anything. He's allowed to fire Comey. So the comparison to Watergate is absolutely a false comparison...

CAIN: Yes.

BOLLING: ... point blank. And obstruction of justice, you're the counselor here. Show us. Tell us. Where is...

WILLIAMS: There's actually two things that are missing. No. 1, specific intent. You've got to show that. You've got to show specific intent to thwart the investigation. And then you've got to show an actual judicial process was going on. Both of those, at least from my legal view, are missing.

Elvira.

SALAZAR: We know that there is an investigation, because the evidence has shown up to now that the Russians tried to interfere with our elections, right? But they -- but we have not been able to come up with a smoking gun that anybody in the Trump camp asked them, helped them to do it. I think that's it. Is there anybody that has been proven that helped them or asked the Russians to do it for Trump?

WILLIAMS: So that's a great question. Kat, just a few moments ago, we know law enforcement -- excuse me, Senate officials have sent new subpoenas to Michael Flynn. This is another opportunity; they're trying to get some information from Michael Flynn.

Do you think that could be the smoking gun that people are talking about? And if it is, should they just give Michael Flynn immunity and see what's there?

TIMPF: That would be funny, because Michael Flynn had previously said that whoever has immunity clearly has something to hide or is guilty.

WILLIAMS: And he also asked for immunity.

TIMPF: And then he asked for it.

You know what I love about this? I'm not an investigator. I love that we have these investigations. I'm not going to try to be some little comment section Twitter investigator. I'm saying I don't know, but it's OK that I don't know. I'm not going to come out and say there's no way. I'm not going to come out and say yes, for sure. There is no evidence right now, Eric, absolutely. There's some more investigating that's going to be happening. I'm going to wait and see and go on with my life and let them do their job while I do my job.

BOLLING: Let's just say...

TIMPF: I can't understand looking at it any other way.

BOLLING: Let's just say Michael Flynn did have some sort of contact with the Russians. Understand that he was fired summarily when it was found out that he had lied to Mike Pence, the vice president Mike Pence. And so when he denied any contact and it turns out there was contact, they got rid of him. What you -- I would think the smoking gun you would need would be further than just Michael Flynn having contact with the Russians, that Donald Trump was getting involved with it.

SALAZAR: You know what's the beauty of this? The beauty is that we can be talking about this openly in every single station or every channel in the United States. That the system works, that the institutions are solid rock. That we see what Madison said, the finger of God writing our Constitution.

CAIN: But...

SALAZAR: The system works, and it will take us; like Paul Ryan said, just follow the facts.

CAIN: But one...

SALAZAR: And we're not going to have anybody saying, "Oh, no, no. Hide that."

CAIN: But...

SALAZAR: But? What's the "but"?

CAIN: One portion of the system is not working, and it's called the liberal media. When you're going to convict somebody based upon the phrase "parsing of words," that's what's broken. Fifty percent of the people who get any news at all, they get it from those sources.

TIMPF: But they don't have the power to convict anybody.

(CROSSTALK)

SALAZAR: They have a choice to pick what they want to -- what they want to hear and read.

CAIN: The public opinion is what they're trying to drive.

WILLIAMS: I've got to -- I've got to cut through. We're going to be back. We have been speaking a lot about senseless, tragic killings today. And I want to bring to your attention one that's been getting buried amid all these other headlines. Second Lieutenant Richard Collins III was brutally stabbed to death Saturday night on the University of Maryland, College Park, campus. It's been suspected to be a hate crime. Lieutenant Collins was set to graduate today with a bachelor's degree in business administration from Bowie State University.

This school is posthumously awarding Lieutenant Collins his degree, presenting it to his family and fellow cadets in the wake of his tragic murder. Bowie State has also draped his cap and gown over a front-row chair that will remain empty in his honor.

I'm going to call out to my fellow Americans and say that we must work together to stomp out all of these terror threats, both foreign and domestic.

Lieutenant Collins, we salute you.

Up next, it's time to wake up America. Eric Bolling is all fired up over immigration and this border mess in the U.S. and in Europe and the threat it's posing to our national security.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time to wake up, America. A nail bomb ripped through a concert hall in Manchester, England, last night. The venue: an Ariana Grande concert where the audience was predominantly young people. Twenty-two dead so far, some as young as an 8-year-old little girl.

The killer, Salman Abedi, the son of Libyan refugees turned ISIS terrorist, and that's not irrelevant. The son of refugees.

Last night's attack was the fifth terror attack in Europe so far just this year, and recently, recall the Bataclan concert hall in Paris, where ISIS fighters gunned down 130. To Nice, where a truck driven by an ISIS supporter barreled through a Bastille Day celebration, killing 85 innocent people. Brussels Christmas market, Westminster Bridge and on and on and on.

But what's happening in Europe? For years, Europe has had an open border policy, free to travel from European country to European country without a visa and unchecked. Add to that an extremely liberal immigration policy.

In Germany alone, Angela Merkel is allowing a million Syrian refugees into their country.

Now, check out the pictures, and you see mostly young men flooding into Germany, potentially an army of jihadists, now able to move freely throughout Europe. Simply put, that's an insane immigration policy.

Meanwhile, here at home, Trump is trying to limit these potential terrorists from entering the United States. It's not a Muslim ban. It's a ban on a country of origin, a moratorium, actually. After all, there's no doubt. Many of them hate us. No doubt many of them may even want to kill us.

So wake up, America. Wake up, liberals. And wake up, Ninth Circuit Court judge. While you fight Trump over political correctness, you make us less safe right here in America, period. Because radical Islamic terrorists are right now plotting ways to get to America and carry out their jihad.

There's no reasoning with this evil. Once they're here, they're here. We cannot let them in or terror will hit us here at home, just like it is in Europe. Kat -- I'm going to start with Kat. So it gets a little hard-core there. But isn't that really the essence of it? Let's limit the jihadists from coming here in the first place.

TIMPF: I definitely don't want jihadists here. OK, I can certainly, most definitely say that. But this guy was born in Manchester.

And in the United States, you want to talk about immigration? Every single lethal attack carried out by an Islamic extremist since 9/11 has been by someone who was either a citizen or who was here legally.

So yes, of course, we don't want jihadists here. But there -- we have to look at what statistically has been happening, where these problems have been coming from. They've been homegrown. And we need to look at that especially, rather than go into somewhere where we're going to start risking our civil liberties because of an emotional experience that we're having with regards to the threat.

CAIN: But there's one thing that Europe has done for decades, and that is, they have allowed isolation of groups rather than insist on assimilation.

TIMPF: I agree with you.

CAIN: Tony Blankley -- Tony Blankley wrote a great book outlining that before he died. They allow these communities to say, "We don't want the cops in here." Well, that's isolation. And so that's where this hatred can breed and feed upon itself. So that's what we must stop here also. If you want to come to the United States of America, assimilate. Don't isolate.

SALAZAR: And I agree with you. And the social mobility in Europe cannot be compared to the social mobility in this country.

CAIN: Correct.

SALAZAR: That's why we are the best country in the world.

TIMPF: Muslims do integrate way better in this country.

BOLLING: But what about the physical mobility of people throughout Europe, where you don't need to go through a border crossing or a passport to go from, say, France to Spain?

SALAZAR: I understand, but what he is saying is that, even if you are in France or in Spain, chances are that you're going to get a good job or be -- or be a doctor, or be able to have social mobility and make more money and have a better social class. It's almost impossible.

Here in this country, the American dream. Everyone can -- can have it.

BOLLING: One country, like Germany, decides they want to let a million Syrian refugees come in, maybe not the severe form of vetting that we have here. You're basically opening up the whole continent of Europe to whatever happens in Germany.

WILLIAMS: I think that's a grave mistake, Eric. I think it's completely irresponsible for her to be doing that. And it's -- particularly in this climate.

I am all for integration and immigration and migration and all that good stuff, but I feel like common sense. It's plainly put.

SALAZAR: The least common of all sense.

WILLIAMS: Right. I mean, you can't just let in jihad and let in terrorists and not be accountable or responsible for who you let into your country. That's just flat-out not leadership.

TIMPF: Well, I'm not saying we should be like Germany. We're not like Germany now. That is stupid.

WILLIAMS: That's crazy.

BOLLING: But the problem is, if you have an open border -- look at it this way. What if -- what if Mexican had an open border policy, and jihadists were flooding into Mexico and then we, as North America -- as Americans, say, "Our border with Mexico, we're not going to protect that border anymore." Are we not opening up ourselves to the same thing that goes on in Europe?

SALAZAR: Yes, but immigration in this country has two prongs, two chapters. The Muslim problem and the Muslim ban and the Hispanics, and the people trying to sneak in through the border. You cannot put those together. One thing is the -- what...

BOLLING: What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to point out the importance of our southern border.

WILLIAMS: Of sovereignty.

BOLLING: Of sovereignty.

SALAZAR: And I agree with you. Build the wall. We don't have any problems with building the wall. But with very big gates. Because we need a lot of people picking jalapeno peppers in Southern California or oranges in Miami or cleaning the toilets here in Manhattan. We need them. And if we don't want them, you know we need to do? Implement e-verify. So then, if it's bad for the guy to sneak in, it's also very bad; it's a felony for the guy who gives him a job.

BOLLING: OK, Herman, what about that? A lot of conservatives say, "I'd like everything except the e-verify system."

CAIN: They're dead wrong. And if you show leadership and insist that we've got to do this for the betterment of the country.

SALAZAR: No one is going to do it, because the agricultural moguls...

CAIN: Elvira, you don't have any faith. You've got to have faith. Yes, they will.

SALAZAR: It won't happen. You know why? No.

CAIN: I believe in e-verify. And I think that it's a bad rap against business people to say that they wouldn't accept it.

SALAZAR: And I agree with you, because if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

CAIN: All right.

SALAZAR: And the thing is that, you know it will never happen.

BOLLING: We've got to leave it right there. We have a hard break.

SALAZAR: E-verify will never happen. It will not!

BOLLING: When we come back, we'll "Circle Back" with our two fired-up specialists. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TIMPF: Time to "Circle Back" with our specialists, Herman Cain and Elvira Salazar.

All right, Herman, I was going to ask you to say, "Nine-nine-nine," but I'm not going to do that, I decided. I don't think it's appropriate. I'll just say it in my head, because I already know how you say it.

So Godfather's Pizza. Other than Godfather's Pizza, what's your favorite pizza?

CAIN: The one I make it home.

TIMPF: OK.

CAIN: The one I make at home, the one that my wife makes. We make great pizza at home. Maybe we learned something when I was running Godfather's Pizza. That would be my favorite.

TIMPF: So no ordering in going on at your...

CAIN: No, no, no.

TIMPF: That's all that's going on at my house. I don't know.

CAIN: Cooking in.

BOLLING: I have a question for Herman. We introduced you as your specialty being rocket science. Do elaborate, sir.

CAIN: When I first got out of college, I was a mathematician for the Department of the Navy, and the big project that I worked on was I was the project manager for a rocket-assisted projectile to be fired from one of the big ships. It was one of the early phases of putting a rocket on the back of a jet to get it to go further. So technically...

BOLLING: You could've added that to the pizza fame, and you know, project the pizza on the back of a projectile.

CAIN: No, pepperoni might fly all over. I don't want to do that.

WILLIAMS: Quick question, Elvira. You are a beautiful, proud Cuban- American. Obviously, we've restored that relationship. What do you recommend for Americans that want to go to Cuba for the first time do when they first get there?

SALAZAR: I think that everybody should go and see what communism does to you, and they should really see how that system does not work...

CAIN: Yes, great.

SALAZAR: ...and how ours is the best in the world. Everybody should go to Cuba. They don't let me in. I've been trying to ask them, Please, I would like to go and take my kids and take my mom after 60 years." "No." Because I talk too much. And I would say too much.

BOLLING: Really?

SALAZAR: Yet. Yes, we say...

CAIN: We didn't get the idea that you talk too much.

TIMPF: I hate to do this, but we actually do need to wrap up the show right now. Thank you to our "FOX News Specialists" today, Herman Cain and Elvira Salazar.

And we thank you all for watching. Make sure to follow us on social media, @SpecialistsFNC on Twitter and Facebook. Remember, 5 o'clock will never be the same. "SPECIAL REPORT" is next.

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