Tillerson ramps up tough talk before touching down in Russia

Secretary of state takes firmer stance on Syria; 'The Five' weigh in


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 11, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is on the ground in Russia to try to convince the country to rethink its support for Syria's leader, Bashar al-Assad. Warning ahead of the visit, the dictator's days are numbered.


REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it is clear to all of us that the reign of the Assad family is coming to an end, but the question of how that ends in the transition itself could be very important in our view to the durability, the stability inside of a unified Syria and the stability and durability of the outcome going forward.


GUIFOYLE: In an interview with Fox Business' Maria Bartiromo, President Trump explained that their Syria strategy hasn't wavered.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We are not going into Syria. But when I see people using horrible, horrible chemical weapons which they agreed not to use under the Obama administration, but they violated it.

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS HOST: They said they got rid of them.

TRUMP: Look, what I did should have been done by the Obama administration a long time before I did it and you would had it much better. I think Syria would be a lot better off right now than it has been.


GUILFOYLE: OK, so strong statements by both the president of the United States, Eric, and the Secretary of State Tillerson.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I've gotten good news and bad news --

GUILFOYLE: OK. Alright, tell me the good news.

BOLLING: The good news is number one, the deconfliction line continues to operate according to General Mattis. I believe he said it was still ongoing. He didn't want to get to specifics, which means if there's any sort of flights going across Syria by either the U.S. or the Russians, we will call each other and give each other a heads up.

The other good news is General Mattis today was amazingly calm and measured. He was fantastic. That's the guy you want to talk to about your Syria strategy. The other piece of good news is Rex Tillerson in Moscow, That's great. That's also good.

Now the bad news -- one more other good news -- Syrian air force is 20 percent depleted, destroyed from the air strike, great. The bad news now it is a Russian ship sitting next to our ships, next to the ships that launched the 59 Tomahawks. And the other one is, when you take a step back and you say we hit Assad, ask the next question. Who is Assad fighting in Syria in the civil war, right?

He's fighting rebels. Who are ISIS more aligned with, the rebels or Assad? And you have to say if they're not with the rebels they're more aligned with the rebel interest, right. So, this has to be really clearly defined and I think General Mattis did.

I think he cleared up a lot of things. He said we're not going to call red lines, red lines anymore, but we know if you can use chemical weapons on women and children and families and innocent civilians, something will be done.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So Dana, so no more discussions of red lines, but that obviously is kind of clearly delineated in terms of use of chemical weapons will not be tolerated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Right and I guess if that's the threshold that they're going to establish, that would be one thing except that I do think it's worth asking the question that I agree chemical weapons, like those should be banned. They should not be used.

But if the means of killing is coming from some other way, like the barrel bombs, with using nails infused in or put into bombs that they send in the hospitals, women are children are being killed by those too. I think that it's worth the question.

I think a lot of the press questions are ahead of what of where the policy is right now and so, one of the most important things to do is to try to slow down and urge patience with the press so that the policy can catch up and I think the administration that's underway. They've sped up that process just out of necessity.

GUILFOYLE: OK, because you see some of the problems, Dana, from communications perspective in terms of if the policy isn't ready yet and you have individuals going out trying to articulate it but aren't quite certain exactly what it is.

PERINO: Well, the press will always look for any sort of daylight and as policies are being developed of course there is going to be some daylight. But it looked like to me that they were a little bit more along the same page today.

GUILFOYLE: Especially with -- do you agree Mattis did a good in terms of coming forward?

PERINO: He's amazing.

GUILFOYLE: He's amazing. A measured Mad Dog. I love it.

PERINO: I follow him.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. OK, so Greg, what do you make of these new developments?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know, more the same to me. I look at it -- it is to me like pro wrestling. You have symbolic gestures and you have choreography and in a way, in the background guaranteeing safety for all countries while giving up a sense of authority and risk. Basically a lot of face-saving posturing that is necessary for world powers to exist.

So you don't see -- what you see are these actions, but what you don't see is the implicit understanding that nothing going on here is actually personal. The good thing about Tillerson, Rex, and Mattis and all these guys, they express an authority that doesn't benefit us, but it also helps our adversaries in a good way.

Our adversaries, they need to know their limitations. They were actually relieved when somebody tells them things that they can't do.

GUILFOYLE: Consequences.

GUTFELD: Because it actually helps them because they don't want to die either. And it's actually a relief to them to deal with somebody, a rival like the United States that says, we're not going to let you do this n -- we're not going to let you do this. And it's like they go back and they talk amongst themselves and they figure out, well, at least we have something that we can work with, and before, we didn't really know what the red line was -- now we kind of do.

It's a level of maturity. These are adults. It's like the adults came home from vacation, and now the kids are back at school, and now they are the ones dealing with all of the neighbors' complaints.

GUILFOYLE: Right, because the wayward teenagers were having parties and acting wild.

BOLLING: The neighbors -- adult neighbors came over and they're kind of starting up too. They put the Russian ship next to ours. I mean, man, it's just -- this is getting a little, what they call a little chippy.


BOLLING: Yes. Chippy.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, so what do you think of what's been going on today in terms of, you know, these latest developments and the comments of Mattis?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, the truth here I'd say is that the ban on chemical weapons goes back to the end of the first world war. So, let's not -- it wasn't just on the Obama administration. Secondly, that point is that we're not going into Syria. I'm glad you said you that. I mean, it's the right thing to do, but here's the question, and Eric raised this, and it's a very important one.

This is a short-term military operation. Yes, it has some positive aspects, but in the long run, I think Assad is going to be thrown out of power. But the question is who takes the place? If the United States is not willing to go in, which we should not go in. The Russians certainly will, I'll tell you that, and ISIS and the groups that are against Assad, the Syrians, getting together is a real possibility.

Then you've got not only ISIS in Syria but you got ISIS in the capital of Syria. So, that worries me a lot. The other thing I have to say is I can't let this go because our producer didn't put it in the lineup. Sean Spicer, the press secretary today said that unlike Hitler -- Hitler didn't gas his own people, referring to Assad. Sean, go back and take a hard look at the Second World War and what gas was used.

GUTFELD: Obviously he made a mistake, Bob. Thank god none of us here make mistakes like that.

BECKEL: That's a pretty big mistake.

GUTFELD: Oh, I admit it's a big mistake, but let's remember how many big mistakes are made at this table.

BOLLING: You know what, you bring up a (INAUDIBLE) question though. Tillerson today said Russia shouldn't back Assad because when Assad is removed by whomever, not supposed to be us remember, but when he is removed, Russia will go with him and have no presence in the Middle East. That was Rex Tillerson's comment. I mean, so, you do made -- bring up a great point. If Assad is gone, if Russia is not going to take over the day-to-day duties of Syria --

GUILFOYLE: Who steps in? The leadership backs -- remember we've seen this happen before with the Muslim brotherhood stepping into power et cetera.

PERINO: And all of these problems are the ones that President Obama cited in 2013 for his reasons of not actually going ahead and doing it. They said that Congress wouldn't back him up which I think that he didn't need Congress' backing anyway as President Trump showed the other night, that his legal justification was under Article II.

I also thing the other interesting piece is that Rex Tillerson is on a mission to explain to the Russians that we will not tolerate the fake news propaganda that they are putting forward, which was that the rebels themselves are the ones that dropped the chemical weapons on the Syrian people.

And so it is actually kind of interesting to have to go to Russia with that message when we've been having that conversation here ourselves to talk about like legitimate news being fake news, like this is actual fake news and this a problem. And what I understand is that it is not just coming from the propaganda arm but from high levels in the military on that hotline that we're talking about, that they're repeating it as well. So that's another thing Secretary Tillerson --

BOLLING: Think about how crazy this is right now. Even the AP reporting yesterday that the Russians, according to a high level source, knew that the -- of the chemical attack that was going to happen prior to the actual chemical attack, and now that has been clearly kind of debunked all day, but the AP? I mean, what is going on here? There's massive amount of miscommunication going on.


GUTFELD: The good news is, Tillerson know, I mean, this is not a blind date, all right?


GUTFELD: Tillerson knows Russia better than Obama knew Bill Ayres. And the fact is, the previous administration looked at the world through the lens of the faculty lounge. These guys whether it's Mattis or Tillerson, look at the world through real-world experience. They're dealing with facts not the faculty and that's important.

That's why you should have a certain level of confidence that there are things going on again that we do not see. We see the obvious things, but we don't see what's happening behind. Again, it's like professional wrestling. There is a choreography to all of this.

BOLLING: But the opposite side acts as expected, then you have Russians who may not act as you --


BOLLING: -- or the North Koreans.

GUILFOYLE: -- to bring Bob in, you know, Tillerson is going to be forced to meet with lower ranking Russians kind of like the sign of Putin's displeasure --

PERINO: I think that Russia changes mind.

GUILFOYLE: They change minds. He's going to meet with one individual, that's (INAUDIBLE) that's going to be good. But Putin will not commit to what he said. We don't know whether or not he's going to meet with him b but they have a prior, you know, existing relationship, so let's see how it develops. But at least this is somebody Bob that has experience dealing with Russia and really understands them well.

BECKEL: Yes. And I think, if he understands like what Greg says, he's got facts and you can, you know, go back to Obama all you want. The facts are that there are no answers. You have all the facts in the world but you have no answers. One of the things that worries me, first of all, the Russians are not going to let Assad fall easily.

They're going to fight to the death on him because they need him. Because behind them -- behind them, who is in line? The Iranians. And the Iranians moving into Damascus would not surprise me at all. And you talk about a threat to the world. That is a threat to the world.

GUILFOYLE: No, and Russia doesn't want to lose (INAUDIBLE) --

GUTFELD: The Democrats just made a great deal with the Iranians, right?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, great deal. And there's also no chemical weapons in Syria.

BECKEL: -- you don't see any reasons of nuclear weapons there, do you.

GUTFELD: Well, where could they be?

GUILFOYLE: Alright, guess what, more from Maria Bartiromo's one-on-one with President Trump ahead. The full interview will air tomorrow starting at 6:00 a.m. on the Fox Business Network. Coming up, the president talking tough again on North Korea. His new warning for Kim Jong Un's rouge regime, next.


PERINO: President Trump put North Korea on notice once again today. He says the U.S. will resolve the nuclear crisis with or without China's help. And Kim Jong-Un has a message for us as one of our navy strike groups moves towards the Korean Peninsula. There will be catastrophic consequences for our "outrageous actions" they say. The president addressed the North Korean crisis with Maria Bartiromo this afternoon.


BARTIROMO: What are we doing right now in terms of North Korea?

TRUMP: You never know, do you? You never know.

BARTIROMO: That's all you're going to say?

TRUMP: You know I don't talk about the military. We are sending an armada, very powerful. We have submarines, very powerful. Far more powerful than the aircraft carrier, that I can tell you. And we have the best military people in earth. And I will say this, he is doing the wrong thing.

BARTIROMO: Do you think he's mentally fit?

TRUMP: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know him, but he's doing the wrong thing.


PERINI: OK, Bob, I wanted to ask you about China's position here, because last week when President Trump met him for -- President Xi -- for the maiden voyage, I guess I would say because they're going to have a long relationship. China has been reluctant to do a lot but, and they want stability over anything else except for, I think they're coming to the realization that their desire for nonproliferation is not going to succeed. And so what can President Trump do to try to push the Chinese in order to engage in sanctions or some other behavior.

BECKEL: Well, the Chinese, interestingly enough, sent back four train loads of coal back to the North Koreans, which is their central way of making money, their currency. So the Chinese are taking the sanction seriously. I've said this before, I'll say it again. I don't think with this crazy guy in North Korea, that the Chinese have that much influence over.

And the thing that worries me, when he says catastrophic, I think he probably means it. I think he's going to do something. I don't think he's going to drop a nuclear weapon, but listen to what the president said. The president said, you'll never know, but we have submarines that are more powerful than aircraft carriers. The reason they want powerful things than aircraft carrier except a nuclear submarine, and that's got to scare the hell out of the North Koreans. If it doesn't, then the guy's crazier than my uncle.

PERINO: Well, that would be something because we don't have a lot of intel on the ground in North Korea. So how do you assess out what he is actually trying to do, Greg?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Good question.


GUTFELD: The great thing about turning little Kim into kimchi is that the vacuum will not be filled by something like Islamic terrorism. That's the good news about, you know, un-sitting this maniac, is you're not going to get a group of existential weirdos.

Look, there is a comfortable middle here and I'm sure, again, like I said in the A-block, there is some backroom stuff going on with China, and the United States talking about sanctions, making sanctions tighter. The show of force, you know, this is all happening.

Nothing is going to be a surprise to China because again, they look at North Korea as they're paying and we have to make it look like it's their decision when they get rid of him.

PERINO: And in the meantime, there is not just a China angle but South Korea, Kimberly. There's a presidential -- they're in their own political mess right now because their president had to resign under an ethical cloud.

GUILFOYLE: Really bad timing.

PERINO: A terrible scandal. So they have an election on May 9th. And so they have a desire to try to see China do something, but they have their own problem. President Trump has to juggle a lot of jobs (ph) here.

GUILFOYLE: Well, absolutely. When you think about that so that's not very stable right now there. They don't have somebody in power and position and what happens in a situation like that is you have somebody like a role that is like North Korea, like Kim Jong-un trying to step in and take advantage of instability and breed further chaos. It's to their advantage in terms of the timing everything that's going on right now.

So then what happens? This then becomes China's further obligation to be able to fortify (INAUDIBLE) 150,000 in terms of military troops because in case something, there is an altercation between North Korea and the United States, the fear is that North Korea can strike immediately, you know, directly to South Korea, which is a huge problem.

So there are a lot of moving parts here and we're missing kind of one of the strong diplomatic points of power because of the lack of stability right now politically in South Korea.

BECKEL: And one of the things about what is going on now on North Korea that he is not getting on well with the military. There's been a real serious divide.

PERINO: Well that actually goes to what Greg was saying in the A-block that it's good for our adversaries to know because the military, if they're not -- if they're trying to hold off Kim Jong-Un's orders, that actually could be good.

BECKEL: Or they may decide, if he says, let's launch against South Korea, let's launch our artillery against South Korea they won't do it.

PERINO: They won't do it. Let me -- Eric, can I ask you --

BOLLING: Do you think they would defy Kim Jong-Un?

BECKEL: Yes, I do.


BOLLING: Let's throw in some reality on this table right here. Where the U.S. probably was just doing, you know, a shot across the bow in Syria, the real deal is happening in North Korea.


BOLLING: This guy, Kim Jong-Un, is the grandson of Kim Il-Sung whose 105th anniversary of his birthday is Saturday. They have a tendency to test fire their various capabilities to show the people what they're doing on these anniversaries and these holidays. That is Saturday. We're going to get the Vinson in the area for that reason.

But think about this, within 35 miles is Seoul, South Korea.


BOLLING: Thirty five miles, there are 25 million people in the Seoul, South Korea metropolitan area and not the city alone but in the area. Within 800 miles also within striking distance of this maniac in North Korea is Tokyo with another 26 million people. They could launch one over there as well.

And let me leave you with this, we keep saying China has got to get involved. China is not so sure that they wouldn't want something to the north also into China as well. So, I can see China saying, listen, we don't want any part of this. Yes, they're an ally. Yes, we sell them a bunch of stuff but we're not going to get into a peninsula war.

GUILFOYLE: It's very messy for them because internationally, everyone is looking for China to have some kind of magic solution, but there isn't, when you have somebody who is such a lunatic that is basically murdered and assassinated anybody who would be in the clear line of succession -- murdered his brother, his uncle.

BOLLING: Can I add to that? You know who else is just like that? Bashar al-Assad and the two of them are buddies and the two of them are communicating back and forth.

BECKEL: China is sending a signal that they're not -- let's say they do make sense and they're not going to get involved in this thing themselves. That opens the gateway for a lot of things. There are a lot of people that want to see this guy gone. Not just us, but you know, for them --

GUTFELD: I mean, here is --

GUILFOYLE: Who takes over?

GUTFELD: Yes. And here's some more reality. We should not be shy --n we should not be shy about responding to a country that repeatedly threatens to kill all of us. We have the right to respond.

GUILFOYLE: How about pre-emptive strike?

BOLLING: And can I just outline the difference --

GUILFOYLE: I like the way you think.

BOLLING: -- between North Korea and Syria, at least in the book of America first doctrine. We have 30 or 35,000 troops on the demilitarized zone border, 35,000. We have an ally in South Korea. We have an ally in Japan. We have a kind of pseudo working relationship with China. This is a far different situation than what we've got going on in Syria in my (INAUDIBLE).


PERINO: Ahead, United Airlines initially issued a staunch defense of its overbooking fiasco, blaming the passenger who was ripped from his seat but now the carrier is taking blame for the incident. They are making a major reversal, coming up.


GUTFELD: Another day, another campus speaker shut down by jackasses.


CROWD CHANTING: Shut it down! Shut it down! Shut it down!

Black lives matter! Black lives matter!

(BLEEP) the police from Oakland to Greece! (BLEEP) the police!


GUTFELD: Well at least it rhymes. So parents, this is what $50,000 a year gets you -- mindless intimidation by anti-free speech cowards. That was Thursday when an ugly mob of seething snowflakes surrounded a building at Claremont McKenna College screaming, banging on windows, all to block a woman from speaking. She had to flee in a van under protection of security.

Heather McDonald's sin? Writing a book called "The War On Cops," which pushes for better community policing and familiarity of neighborhoods. A book I'm sure none of these petulant protesters actually read.

The tome is saturated in facts which terrifies these campus cretins. I mean why shout her down if her words are baseless? The fear of her facts speaks volumes.

But the goal here isn't to challenge the speaker but to prevent any speaking at all. Debate is secondary to silence. Activists called her anti-black, capitalist, imperialist and fascist, all to camouflage their lack of depth and to shut her up. They also harassed students and segregated the white protesters. I'd say the lunatics have taken over the asylum, but why insult lunatics?

A piece of advice to this activists and parents and teachers who support them: Every action has an opposite one.

Can you imagine what kind of movement you would create by then silencing speech? Because without speech, the only solution obviously is violence.

Maybe that's what you want. Maybe that's what you'll get.

This is not a winning look, Bob, for liberals.

BECKEL: No, but here's the thing to keep in mind. There is no more conservative school then Claremont McKenna.

PERINO: That's why I don't understand.

BECKEL: I mean, I have been out there giving speeches and booed off that campus myself. Not like -- not necessarily what I said. I mean, they didn't physically assault me, but that is we put together specifically to promote the conservative movement. Now, you can talk all you want about liberals, but there are a lot of students out there --

GUTFELD: You think those were conservative students shutting down Heather MacDonald?

BECKLE: That happened at Claremont McKenna. I would see about a thousand Claremont McKenna students, the conservatives coming and whooping them up. I don't get it.

GUTFELD: Yes. Maybe they're not students.


GUILFOYLE: The population has changed.


GUTFELD: Preemptive strike. I mean, on Facebook, they had planned...

PERINO: That's what I think that they weren't from there.


PERINO: I would imagine.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: Heather MacDonald is relentless in her facts, like impenetrable.

GUILFOYLE: Good for her.

PERINO: And the thing that's amazing is Bernie Sanders wants free college, free tuition? For that?

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Insurrection.

GUTFELD: Eric, if you're confident in your beliefs, you should welcome any form of debate. That's the way it used to be.

BOLLING: Yes. And it probably should be now, but there's another big test coming up.


BOLLING: Ann Coulter...

GUTFELD: I know.

BOLLING: ... going to speak at Berkeley...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: ... at the same place that Milo -- remember that whole...

GUILFOYLE: Can you imagine?

BOLLING: Do you remember what happened when Milo tried to speak and, in advance of that, there was rioting and they, you know, flipped over some cars?

GUILFOYLE: I'm going to say a prayer for him.

BOLLING: And they said, "Oh, this is a terrible reflection on Berkeley." Well, let's see what happens when Ann Coulter gets out there.

BECKEL: How much time do I have to get out there? When is she speaking?

GUTFELD: They're having -- I think the Oath Keepers are going there on Saturday to have a counter demonstration. Could get unusual. The problem...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. I'm going to pray for Ann. I think...

GUTFELD: But Kimberly, you know what drives me crazy here? Is he wrote a book that essentially defends police officers, because they aren't getting enough factual -- people aren't writing enough about the statistics. So she is actually in the minority in terms of writing about this sort of stuff, and yet that's too much for the critics.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and by the way, if they actually read the book, there are so many really important salient facts, that if you have any experience working with police departments, and being a former prosecutor like I do, really makes sense.

Guess what she's for? Community policing. This is something that helps. And saying that -- encouraging that police departments become very familiar with the different neighborhoods, go out and meet with the different communities. How is this, you know, inappropriate, fascist, or racist idea? This is talking about being connected to your neighborhoods and understanding them very well and working cooperatively with the people in those communities so they feel that they have a voice, that they're being listened to. These are all very positive things that have shown themselves and proved themselves to be successful across the country when they are implemented.

BECKEL: And also part of the progressive agenda. That's the most amazing thing about. Community police has been something that liberals have been looking for for a long, long time. So why would he protest something you're in favor of? Well, I don't know why.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

BOLLING: Because they're anti-police. I mean, they've evolved to, you know, it's always the cop's fault.



BECKEL: A small segment. How do we know if it's that small.

GUTFELD: The scary part is, when you're removing the step, which is communication between anger and violence...


GUTFELD: ... then it just goes from anger to violence. If that's what you want, sooner or later, that's what you're going to get.


GUTFELD: Because if you're not talking to somebody, and you're attacking them, they will attack back.

GUILFOYLE: She's asking for that. She's saying, "Hey, let's improve, you know, relations between the police and the community by having the two talk to each other. That's hardly something that's a racist policy.

BOLLING: What does violence bring, though? Attention.


BOLLING: And the cameras and the spotlights. And that's where they've -- you're right. They've eliminated that step from ideas to actual action violence, because the talk in between might talk them out of getting the camera to follow them around while he breaks stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Greg, last thing just really quick, is what's important idea, too, is she is saying that these ideas, saying that the police department are, you know, wholesale racist against minorities, it's actually making minorities' communities less safe by creating and, you know, propagating this false narrative forward. It's not helping make those communities safe.

GUTFELD: All right, ahead, our attorney general went to the border today and announced new plans by the administration to deal with illegal immigration. That is next.


BOLLING: Today, our attorney general made a trip down to the Mexican border to put any would-be illegal immigrants on notice.


JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: For those that continue to seek improper and illegal entry into this country, be forewarned. This is a new era. This is the Trump era. The lawlessness, the abdication of duty to enforce our laws, and the catch-and-release policies of the past are over.


BOLLING: Jeff Sessions also announced the administration is taking a more aggressive approach to those -- to prosecuting those already here illegally.


SESSIONS: We will execute a strategy that once again secures our border. Apprehends and prosecuted those criminal aliens that threaten public safety. We are going to interdict your drugs on the way into this country, your money on the way out, and investigate and prosecute your trafficking networks to the fullest extent of the law.


BOLLING: And there's been an unprecedented drop in illegal border crossings since President Trump took office. Seventy-two percent fewer crossings last month than President Obama's final month in office, and that's because this president's keeps his word when he says he's going to enforce the law and, K.G., build a big, beautiful wall.

GUILFOYLE: It's going to get 10 feet taller, right, by tomorrow.

So this is very strong messaging, obviously, from Sessions. And this is very consistent with what candidate Trump promised to the American people in terms of making us a nation of borders, enforcing the laws that are on the books already.

So this is again clear messaging to tell people there are consequences, that illegal immigration and drug trafficking and bringing that type of stuff into our country is going to be prosecuted. And there also, I like the financial aspect of it, saying that they will seize the funds. So there will be monetary impact, as well.

As a former prosecutor, I am all for the laws that are on the books being upheld and being enforced. And it's about time. And you see that it's already had a deterrent effect...


GUILFOYLE: ... which I think is also very important.

BOLLING: And pick up on that, the 72 percent drop in border crossings, you're not going to at least credit some of the tough talk on illegal immigration?

BECKEL: Yes, I'll keep it a little bit of credit. Let's remember last year, there were a lot more people who fled this country, back home to Mexico, than came here under Barack Obama, No. 1.

No. 2, because of the economy had gotten better.

GUILFOYLE: Beckel. Beckel Institute.

BECKEL: That -- that's not Beckel Institute; that's a fact. There were more people who left this country who were illegal than came into this country. Now you might want to...

BOLLING: He had a record number of deportations, Barack Obama did, in his final year. A record number.

BECKEL: Yes. Yes, that's right. And that's a good thing, too. But that -- people who voluntarily went back, there were more people who voluntarily went back; they came here illegally.

And by the way, your fence, that big, beautiful...

BOLLING: Big, beautiful fence. With the big door.

BECKEL: The Congress of the United States has put him on notice. He's not going to get any money in this -- in this new bill that's moving through to keep the government open. He wanted $10 billion. He's not going to get it. You're not going to get it from the Mexicans, and you're not going to get it from anybody else along the border.

So once again, a lot of tough talk; no wall.

BOLLING: Dana, what do you think the -- you can credit a 72 percent drop in border crossings, whether deportations or not, border crossings?

PERINO: You remember that, when there was a concern, remember when President Obama said they were going to get tougher, and then you had all those people sending their kids there, and we had that problem? This was about three years ago, because people thought, "Well, this might be my last chance in order to be able to get to the United States."

So I think what has happened, that not only President Trump but also former President Obama, there had been a push towards making sure people don't even try to come here.

But now I think that what you're starting to see, you might start to see some pressure, now that you have the delineation about the criminals here illegally that are on notice, drugs, Jeff Sessions is going to be all over you. Like, that's that. I think you'll start to see some employers start to ask the administration to think about a temporary worker program, because they're going to need people to help get their products to market.

BECKEL: As if the DEA has not been after the drug traffickers all along. And so that's a false argument on -- Trump's part.

GUTFELD: Bob, you said tough talk, no wall. Tough talk is the wall.

GUILFOYLE: Is the wall.

GUTFELD: Somehow, perception has done, like 90 percent of the perspiration.


GUTFELD: I'm looking at the numbers, Bob.

GUILFOYLE: I heard it on "The Greg Gutfeld Show."

GUTFELD: You don't need to build a wall. Trump might be the wall. Look at it. It's not like he didn't build a new bar. We just got a new bartender. For the longest time, bartenders keep...

GUILFOYLE: Free drinks.

GUTFELD: The free drinks and everybody is coming in. Now all of a sudden, they fired that bartender. They bring in a new bartender with skin in the game, and suddenly, people start going, "You know what? I can't get a free drink there. I'm going to go somewhere else." So it's not a new bar; it's a new bartender.

BECKEL: Hey, look, we'll find out by the end of this year.

GUILFOYLE: And they've hardened the carding, right, with Trump?

BECKEL: There are statistics. Statistics are something Trump has never been introduced to, but...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BECKEL: ... the fact of the matter is, we'll see how many people get arrested under Trump, how many drugs are...

GUTFELD: This is kind of an amazing statistic. A 70 percent drop when it was supposed to increase? I mean, that's called a stat, Bob.

BECKEL: No, it wasn't supposed to increase. Not supposed to increase.

BOLLING: And I'll throw another stat at you, Bob. Do you know how much a $20 billion wall will save in taxpayer money that were not -- they are not turning over to the 72 percent of the people who decided not to come over in the form of health care, welfare, Food Stamps...

GUILFOYLE: Education.

BOLLING: ... assistance, education? Hundreds of billions of dollars. It's a great investment.

BOLLING: Hundreds of billions of dollars?

GUILFOYLE: One of the things that's really important...

BECKEL: Is that from the big, beautiful wall that comes from? Hundreds of billions?

BOLLING: You know if they come over here, you've got to give them -- if they want to go to -- Dana, they come over, you've got to let them go into public schools.

BECKEL: I understand that.

BOLLING: If they get hurt, they've got to be treated in an emergency room.


BOLLING: In fact, their families can get Food Stamps and assistance on housing across the board. That's hundreds of billions of dollars.

GUILFOYLE: Identification cards. All the...

BECKEL: How about the people -- 11 million who are here, how many do you think work? And how many do you think pay taxes?

BOLLING: What the heck does that got to do with this?

BECKEL: A lot. They pay a lot in taxes. They pay a lot when they buy the food. They pay taxes on that, for gasoline.

GUILFOYLE: They also send a lot of money home. That's well-documented.

Really quickly, Sessions also said they're going to crack down on anybody who commits assaults of conduct or acts of violence against Border Patrol agents. There were a lot of problems with the Border Patrol and the officers feeling that they were being punished by the last administration if they were enforcing the law. So now he's saying, "Do your job, and we are going to have your back," and there will be penalties if you try and assault an officer.

BOLLING: Ahead -- leave it right there. Ahead, United Airlines finally apologizes to the passenger who was violently dragged off his overbooked plane. What the airline is saying now, coming up next.


BECKEL: A lot of people were stunned by a tape of a United Airlines passenger being ripped out of his seat and dragged down the aisle. United's CEO initially stood by the action, blaming the bloody passenger. But then, this afternoon, a reversal. He apologized to the guy, saying no one should be treated that way.

Here was Jimmy Kimmel's take on the incident last night.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're United Airlines. You do what we say when we say it, and there won't be a problem, capiche? If we say you fly, you fly. If not, tough (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Look at what you're doing to him!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give us a problem, and we'll drag your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off the plane. And if you resist, we'll beat you so badly you'll be using your own face as a flotation device.

United Airlines, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. She's so charming, huh?

BECKEL: That's very good. A little news came in this afternoon that the -- the doctor who was pulled off the plane is now being treated in a Chicago hospital for injuries sustained from being pulled down the aisle. That make any difference to you, Eric?

BOLLING: Of course he is! He's going to continue to play this up on his - - I hate to -- this is what happens.

PERINO: Maybe he really got hurt.

BOLLING: OK. Maybe he did. Or maybe he's going to play it up, because he's on every TV station, on every channel across the globe.

GUILFOYLE: What was that, Bolling?

BOLLING: When all United really had to do was go was go to the free market and just pay him until -- pay somebody. They probably would have gotten to, like, $1,500 bucks and there will be ten people fighting for the 1,500 bucks.

GUILFOYLE: But three people went off. He was the only one that didn't.

BOLLING: Get this. Get this, though.

GUILFOYLE: The way they handled this.

BOLLING: It's about a four-hour -- it's a little more than a four-hour drive.

PERINO: Yes, they could have gotten him an Uber.

BOLLING: All they had to do is put these -- these people in an Uber or a van and sent them to Louisville.

BECKEL: Dana, what do you think?

BOLLING: Come on.

PERINO: I think they should have gotten him an Uber, now that we know it's a four-hour drive.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, crazy.

BECKEL: Greg, would you have taken an Uber? Or would you have gotten back on that plane?

GUTFELD: I would have -- I don't know, because I probably would have already been on a pill. This is what -- this is what worries me, is like if you -- if you like -- usually when you're timing everything, so you take an -- a lot of people take Ambien. Other people take Xanax. And then you fall asleep, and all of a sudden, somebody wakes you up and says it's time to go, you're probably, like, disoriented. That's what -- I would really...

GUILFOYLE: We were on a short flight, so I think you just took, like, a Xanax.

GUTFELD: I don't need to do it anymore. I've weened myself off.

PERINO: Just when you're flying with me?

GUTFELD: Yes, just when I'm with you, I take three Xanaxes.

BECKEL: I don't want to bloody the victim here, but also, the information came out that he was a doctor earlier. I guess he...

PERINO: Immaterial.

BECKEL: You may call it immaterial, but I'm going to say it anyway.

PERINO: Immaterial.

BECKEL: The guy got -- lost his license for trading drugs for sex.

BECKEL: But this is -- OK, this raises kind of the -- when you get involved -- even when you're the victim of something, news somehow brings up your past. So it's like this guy is in the hospital.

PERINO: Right.

BECKEL: You know, he's been beaten up. And yet, that's not -- that's not all. Everything in his past now becomes public.


GUTFELD: It's like -- it's just like more insult to injury.

GUILFOYLE: Right. But the bottom line is, it's not relevant.


GUILFOYLE: Or probative if they bring a case. You can't, you know, do a character assassination to, like, dirty the victim on it, because it has no bearing on whether or not they had the right to take him and remove him and whether or not they used reasonable force.

BECKEL: You ought to read my Google background. That will help you a lot.

GUTFELD: I thought you got that scrubbed?

BECKEL: No, it didn't work. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: ... Bob. Yes, because you have to pay for that.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, really? Well, it's time now for "One More Thing."

Eric, where are you?

BOLLING: All right. I'm over at the window. Look at all these people. It begins (ph) in five seconds.

OK, big night at Wrigley last night: the Cubs' home opener against the Dodgers. They won, 3-2. A little V.O. of that, big win for the Cubbies at home. But more importantly, can you go to the next V.O.? Since 1908, this hasn't happened in Chicago, at least on the north side of Chicago. A hundred and eight years is the last time they were able to raise the national championship flag.

Congratulations, Cubbies, world champion Cubbies, raised it last night at Wrigley Field.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Very nice. Well done, Bolling.

BOLLING: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Nice window shots.

BOLLING: Thank you.


GUTFELD: Huge crowd out there, by the way. Wow, I'm glad we went over there. There were four people.

BOLLING: There will be.


GUILFOYLE: Field of dreams. Build it, they will come.

GUTFELD: All right. Go to for my latest article. It's -- it's "How to Explain Trump to Your Liberal Friends, Not That They'll Listen."

And now another...


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner


GUTFELD: This happened in Philadelphia. You had the Philly Phanatic. I don't even know why I'm doing this. But anyway, there he is. And then Noah Syndergaard -- he's a pitcher for the Mets -- gets onto his ATV. I didn't know that the fanatics had ATVs.

And then he fell and could not keep up with him.

The reason why I'm doing this specific segment.

PERINO: Yes, why?

GUTFELD: Is because nobody's sure what the Phanatic -- and it's a bipedal creature with an extendible tongue. And he's originally from the -- originally from the Galapagos Islands.

But I'm just deeply offended by the fact that he's called a Phanatic, because that is -- what about the people who have -- show excessive zeal for a religious cause? Isn't that offensive to them, to have him called the Phanatic?

PERINO: And what is the pronoun you use?

GUTFELD: Which one?

PERINO: For the Phanatic?

GUTFELD: Ooh, good one. I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Gender-neutral?

GUTFELD: It's gender-neutral.

GUILFOYLE: Very well done, Greg. That was so bizarre.

All right. Dana.

PERINO: All right. Bob, your son is into D.J.-ing, right?

BECKEL: Yes, ma'am.

PERINO: You're going to want to pay attention to this next one. There is an 82-year-old woman named Sumiko Iwamuro. I hope I'm saying that right. She's from Tokyo. So during the day she makes all of these dumplings. She's been doing it for six decades. But that's not her only skill. Bob, check it out. She's also a D.J. by night. And, you know, they've got a lot of older people there in Japan. I think 26 percent of the population is over 60, something like that.


PERINO: So she is very famous. And she's a famous D.J.

BECKEL: All right.

GUILFOYLE: I think this is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

BECKEL: That's great.

GUILFOYLE: I love it. OK, Bob, what's up?

BECKEL: For over a billion Christians, today is Good Friday and a day that we recognize the death of Jesus Christ. And...

BOLLING: This week. At the end of this week.

BECKEL: At the end of this week, sorry. I forget, today is only Tuesday, isn't it?


BECKEL: OK. Well, I'm going to celebrate it all week, and then, of course, Easter Sunday is this Sunday coming up. So for all of us that thank our savior for being here, I certainly do.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Amen to that, Bob, and "A" for effort.

OK. In important news, it's time for...

GUTFELD: Oh, jeez.


GUILFOYLE: Kimberly's Royal News.


GUILFOYLE: Yes, that's right. Back by popular demand from no one. Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip visited a new elephant center at the Whipsnade Zoo in Dunstable, Britain, earlier today. The queen and Duke of Edinburgh took part in the opening ceremony of the two-and-a-half-million-dollar center for the elephant care. The queen was very excited. One of the elephants is named after her.

And then they also fed delicious bananas to a 7-year-old elephant named Donna.

So do you just love it or what? So the center officially opens to the public on Wednesday.

PERINO: The queen looks super excited.

GUILFOYLE: I'm hitting the read. I'm hitting the read.

Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is next. And we have more of the Maria Bartiromo's interview with President Trump up next.

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