TRANSCRIPT

Susan Rice denies leaking Trump team intelligence, defends unmasking requests

The former Obama national security adviser says she 'leaked nothing to nobody'

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 4, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello. I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and try her ladybug lasagna, Dana Perino, "The Five."

So what does Susan Rice know about the accusation that she is behind the attempt to unmask Trump officials? I bet it's nothing.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I know nothing about this. I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that count today. I really don't know to what Chairman Nunes was referring. I was not aware of any orders given to disseminate that kind of information. But the fact is that the president did request back in December that the intelligence community compile all of the information that it had on what had transpired during the campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So she is unaware of orders, but she knew of the request. Sneaky little ploy. I'm going to try that this weekend. Officer, I didn't order the drugs. I just requested them.

But this is pure Rice. Remember, she is the one who blamed Benghazi on a video. Now she is pulling a Sergeant Schultz. She sees nothing. She knows nothing. Maybe she can blame her amnesia on an episode of "Hogan's Heroes." Did she leak the names?

(START VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: Did you leaked the name of Mike Flynn.

RICE: I leaked nothing to nobody and never have and never would.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: She leaked "nothing to nobody," a double negative. She either leaked everything to everyone or maybe she just misspoke. Again, this woman is crafty. But did she break the law? Well, incidental collection is legal. We all know this. When you surveil a foreigner but then you get picked up too. But it could also be reverse monitoring. They say they're recording Igor but they really want you instead. Igor is just the wingman. Now, if you combine reverse monitoring with unmasking, you can mess with just about everyone. It may still be legal but it's not cool.

Now, others will prefer to raise hell over Russian collusion. Raise away. But be aware in the evidence sweepstakes, the leak story is on firmer ground while the collusion stuff still remains foggy. These two stories are likely Yankees and the Red Sox. Everyone is wildly devoted to their team and hates the other.

Meanwhile we use sight of the truly deadly threat: Those who see you and me as stepping stones to 72 virgins. That's a collection that's far from incidental and way more final.

Well, thank you, Dana.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: You're welcome.

GUTFELD: You just said it was a good monologue. But I will start with Kimberly instead. Nice try. Kimberly.

PERINO: Ladybug lasagna sounds good.

GUTFELD: Did she do nothing wrong? Should she go to jail for many years?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I think you figured it out.
You solved the puzzle here. You cracked the Da Vinci code. Because it was either she leaked everything to everyone.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: . or I don't know. But she was crafty because of course she did not admit in this interview that in fact that she leaked classified information, which would be a criminal act. She said okay, didn't deny the unmasking, but she didn't take it a step further obviously. So if she goes in front of the house and senate committee, what is she going to do? She is going to take the fifth? That's what I think is going to happen here.

GUTFELD: Dana, was she just being crafty to caught the busy boys (ph) or was she abusing her power?

PERINO: Well, the thing that was pretty amazing in the interview with Andrea Mitchell, Andrea Mitchell doesn't use that cliff that you showed at first.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Which was just a month ago Susan Rice saying that she knew nothing about it. Now, she is like, okay, yes of course. I was doing it in the course of my work.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: I was doing that. I do think that if you go back to even Nunes and Schiff who have seen the document in question, we have not, they have seen it and they said that the collection that was in itself wasn't illegal but you're exactly right, the part I liked about the monologue the most was when you said if you're in a race to see who is going to be able to win this, if you're on a side here.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: . then you are like, well then, obviously today if you support Trump like, well, there's that. Obviously she did something. There is probably going to be more to this story, and we're going to have to find out because she's not only going to have to testify in front of them, but it's plausible that in the FBI investigation, they know of this as well.

GUILFOYLE: I think so.

PERINO: Probably.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: Eric, do you believe that this was politically motivated?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think -- I think this is far bigger than what we are making out right now. Yesterday, I said my head is exploding.

PERINO: So there.

BOLLING: I said where there is no, there is fire. And that this fire is leading right to Susan Rice. My problem is I think this is going to continue to expand. There's no way that this is limited solely to Mike Flynn and maybe a couple of Trump operatives. I would bet you this continues like (inaudible) of the onion. You will see more and more. The problem is when it goes beyond that, is it incidental or is it targeted? I don't know.

But right now we have incidental, okay. Then she says no, I didn't leak it.
Well, somewhere between this, her demanding for the unmasking of this name and the name being in the media, somewhere a felony was committed. Now, was it her? I don't know. Was it someone around her? Could be. She has a lot of explaining to do. And then this one.

Why is a White House staffer, Susan Rice, demanding the unmasking of this name when the NSA, the FBI, and the CIA all had access to the information and none of them chose to unmask Flynn's name and others names because it didn't seem like he was important enough. What was it about Susan Rice other than her proximity to the president that made it so darn important to unmask these people's names? Think about it.

GUILFOYLE: She is a key player, she's in inner circle, just like Benghazi.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: (inaudible) national security advisor (inaudible).

GUTFELD: Bob.

BOLLING: But the NSA, the FBI, and CIA kept the names under masked (inaudible).

BECKEL: It does really matter (inaudible) they did. When you mentioned the two sides.

GUTFELD: Right.

BECKEL: . who leaked what and who leaked another, in the Russian issue.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: . that Russian scandal, (inaudible), it's the largest single crime against the United States ever committed by a foreign country. Ever. And that means.

BOLLING: And you are ignoring the question. The question is -- we are talking about Susan Rice.

BECKEL: This interruption every time I talk.

BOLLING: Bob, this is what you do. You change the topic. The topic was Susan Rice basically.

BECKEL: I can change whatever I want.

BOLLING: . lying. Okay, fine, fair enough.

BECKEL: The point is this, she did not -- she said she didn't leak it. She said she unmask it. And one of the things that should happen. I'm sorry I didn't unmask more of it. At this point, everybody knew that the Russians -
- facts and rumors about Russian involvement in the presidential election, of course, unmask everybody or anybody.

PERINO: But why, Bob, do you think she said three weeks ago that she knew nothing about it?

BECKEL: I think she was referring about leaking it.

PERINO: That wasn't the call of the question.

BOLLING: I will read exactly what she said. I was surprised to see the reports from Chairman Nunes on that account. I know nothing about this.

GUILFOYLE: Lying.

BOLLING: But now (inaudible) names on this.

BECKEL: What was she talking about? What was Nunes talking about?

BOLLING: The unmasking.

BECKEL: Is that what she was talking about?

BOLLING: Yes.

PERINO: Yes.

BECKEL: That was -- how do we know that?

PERINO: I think that is fact, Bob.

BOLLING: I mean, Bob.

BECKEL: A couple people were unmasked. It's unrelated.

BOLLING: She said she had no knowledge of any of this happening. And then now we know she demanded these names be unmasked.

GUILFOYLE: It is like ABC.

BECKEL: You know, I noticed in the Trump campaign, somebody -- a former military guy through a back channel to Putin for Trump. Did you notice that story?

GUTFELD: What about back channels to Iran, Bob? Why is it okay for Obama to metal (ph)?

BECKEL: This is talking about the presidential election.

GUTFELD: And we've never done that with Israel, right?

BECKEL: What?

GUTFELD: We never sent any money to help beat Netanyahu?

BECKEL: It's not a question of sending money, it's a question of leaking false information about Hillary Clinton.

GUTFELD: There is no question that the Russians were probably involved in that, but is there collusion? Right now, it is a speculative fog. We don't know. We need an investigation. I am with you, Bob.

BECKEL: Let me ask you this.

BOLLING: She lied about this. She lied about this.

GUTFELD: Who cares?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, there we go.

BOLLING: Hold it. She was the right hand of President Obama demanding this name of a Trump operative to be unmasked. Likely, who knows? But definitely.

BECKEL: The president of the United States lied about.

GUTFELD: Trump lies all the time.

BOLLING: What about the next one? What about the next name that takes out to the media?

BECKEL: What about it?

BOLLING: Then what are you going to say?

BECKEL: So what?

BOLLING: So what? She is breaking the law. Someone is breaking the law.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody does care (ph).

BECKEL: President of the United States, lied himself about being tapped, and you let that go, and you're worried about Susan Rice (inaudible) is being besmirched by you guys because you're trying to take the focus off of Russia. Because you know and I know that the Trump campaign, somebody.

BOLLING: We have a lot more evidence that Susan Rice lied in this who unmasking, who leaked than we do of any collusion of Trump campaign with the Russians. So this holds a hell of a lot more weight right now than this one.

BECKEL: That investigation on the Trump and the Russian collusion back months and months and months.

GUILFOYLE: That wasn't able to find.

BECKEL: They are still working on it. There is something there.

GUILFOYLE: Okay, Bob, they have produced no evidence whatsoever. By the way, no indication whatsoever this actually influenced and affected.

BECKEL: How do you know?

GUILFOYLE: . the outcome of the election.

BECKEL: How do you know?

GUILFOYLE: Was there any vote tampering? Was there any involvement in that way?

BECKEL: There was the story about sending out the untrue press releases in Wisconsin in newspapers (inaudible).

BOLLING: Of leaking?

BECKEL: If you know something about politics, you understand like that.

BOLLING: Leaking Flynn's name is a felony. Someone leaked Flynn's name.
Someone.

BECKEL: He is a felon.

BOLLING: Bob, someone committed a felony. We know that for a fact, okay?
Why don't we find out who did it instead of trying to hide.

BECKEL: The president of the United States fired him because he committed a felony, did he not? Did he not ask for immunity from prosecution and they turned him down? Why? He wasn't a felon?

BOLLING: He didn't commit the felony. Someone committed the felony by leaking General Flynn's name. That's fact.

BECKEL: Names get leaked all the time.

GUTFELD: All right. This is her on a show tonight. Political Motivation.
Let's roll that please.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: This is not anything political has been alleged. The allegation is that somehow the Obama administration officials utilized intelligence for political purposes. That's absolutely false.

ANDREA MITCHELL, JOURNALIST: Did you seek the names of people involved in -
- to unmask the names of people involved in the Trump transition, the Trump campaign, people surrounding the president-elect?

RICE: Let me.

MITCHELL: In order to spy on them.

RICE: Absolutely not for any political purposes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Dana.

PERINO: Well, I think that might be eventually where she ends up figuring out some sort of a way to explain herself. So she might say well, it wasn't for political purposes. It was maybe because in the collection, you had two Russians, Russians are monitored. Two Russians who we're talking about somebody like Mike Flynn. Does that raise alarm bells? Do you think he's the incoming national security advisor? Do they have thoughts about how they're going to try to do something to him?

There's lots of ways I suppose in any scenario she might be able to try to explain that. But then, if you go back to "The New York Times" piece a couple months ago that said that the Obama administration was planting little breadcrumbs all around in order to make sure that investigators or the press eventually could find it, find their way back to this, I think that's the big question for me. How do you that?

BECKEL: Dana, she said herself that the Obama administration ordered any information having to do with Russia in the elections, all the collection you can possibly make. If it were up to me, I would have tapped all of of them myself. Because I absolutely firmly believe the Russians helped Donald Trump get elected to be president. But, she already said in the administration and Trump knew it, because Obama and Trump talked about it.

PERINO: That's true.

BECKEL: They did talk about it. They knew that there was an active investigation by the FBI which is still going on which would be for a red light violation.

BOLLING: Can you explain one question?

BECKEL: I don't need to explain anything.

BOLLING: I am asking for your theory, if the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA are directed to exactly do exactly this. If there's any collusion between any U.S. person and the Russians, anything going on, it's their job to unearth that and investigate that and find out what's going on.

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: Why would an Obama appointee, a staffer, Susan Rice, demand these people's names be opened if the FBI, CIA, NSA.

GUILFOYLE: But there was no evidence, no evidence of wrongdoing.

BECKEL: She was not doing her job.

BOLLING: Why are you talking about.

BECKEL: She didn't leak it. We don't know if she leaked it. You have no information about that.

BOLLING: There is no other reason. She wasn't going to perform -- the White House does not perform investigations. They don't do that.

BECKEL: No, but what she did was she disseminated it out on these people who do and secondly.

BOLLING: That's illegal.

GUILFOYLE: Guess what, Bob. Guaranteeing that the information was going to be leaked because she went ahead despite the fact that these agencies found no evidence of wrongdoing. And ordered them to produce detailed records of legal phone calls.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The FBI is deep in this investigation. Believe me, before this is over, do you think they have been doing this for seven months for fun? You don't think they have anything?

BOLLING: What does that mean? The FBI, the CIA, and the NSA. General Flynn's name. Unmasked by Susan Rice for political reasons.

BECKEL: You want to touch the black water consultant paid by their campaign to set up a channel.

BOLLING: I know.

BECKEL: You don't want to talk about that? You want to talk about Susan Rice?

GUTFELD: All right. The longer this silliness endures, the more Putin wins.
America is a couple quarreling in public. We're quarreling about.

PERINO: I do not do that.

GUTFELD: Yea, it is the worst thing. Who wins? It's the cat. Putin. He thinks it's hilarious. All right.

GUILFOYLE: Let's go.

GUTFELD: All right. That was fun. The mainstream media has been all over every Trump-related Russian involvement. But for some reason, not this one.
Many networks aren't providing cover for Susan Rice. We are not covering her at all. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Back now to the Susan Rice unmasking outrage. Earlier today, President Obama's national security advisor denied there is any political motive behind the unmasking of Trump team members from intelligence reports. MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell really didn't press her too hard on that.
The mainstream media doesn't see this is a big story.

"The Washington Post" calls it a fake scandal by right wing media. And Trump, if you're watching the broadcast networks last night, you didn't see it reported at all in ABC or NBC and CBS gave it 45 whole seconds, most of which were spent defending Susan Rice. And if you are watching CNN, this is what you heard.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, TELEVISION PERSONALITY: There is no evidence that backs up the president's original claim. On this program tonight, we will not insult your intelligence by pretending otherwise. Nor we aid and abet the people who were trying to misinform you, the American people, by creating a diversion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: With all due respect to my very good friend, Don, who is a fine journalist, he is wrong on this. I am not abetting the president, nor am I creating a distraction. This is real. Susan Rice owes the American people a lot more answers. Now, Bob, the mainstream media broadcast networks barely touched it last night. I have a hunch it's going to get bigger and bigger as the week goes on.

BECKEL: Well, it gets bigger (inaudible) a crash in Texas where a lot of people died yesterday on a bus. Must more important story than Susan Rice.
They covered that and some others did not. The point is that, why you think that unmasking names which is perfectly legal is somehow a big story that sort of.

BOLLING: Leaking the name is the illegal part.

BECKEL: But you don't know that she leaked.

BOLLING: Well, somebody.

BECKEL: Why don't you say she leaked it right in the camera, I'll call your lawyer.

BOLLING: I will look in the camera and say someone leaked General Flynn's name and someone created a felony.

BECKEL: Someone leaked a felon name.

GUILFOYLE: That's why there's going to be an investigation and it is an important story and it should be covered by all responsible media. I think that's a valid argument. It is a valid point to be made. It deserves attention on the broadcast networks and on the cable news networks. And that's why we are doing the story.

And you should as an American be concerned whether it's a Democrat or a Republican who is in that position, if this kind of information was unmasked and properly and or leaked. So why wouldn't you want to get to the bottom of it?

BECKEL: Because I think there are so many more important things to do on the Russian investigation of choosing our president.

GUILFOYLE: Because you want to try to find something to disparage the president and his team.

BECKEL: (inaudible). I like Don Lemon, he's a good man. He's exactly right.
This is a diversion. And the Trump people (inaudible) out there and were buying left and right. And that Spicer who was a liar himself throws it out, you pick it up.

PERINO: Bob, Bob, Bob.

BECKEL: What? You don't think he's a liar?

BOLLING: Let's talk about the treatment of this story. Is it overblown?

PERINO: It reminds me a lot of Benghazi. Remember so like, when we -- who pushed the video? Why did she go on five Sunday shows? Why did she say this? Then not too long after that, there was the Bowe Bergdahl situation where she basically became a lightning rod. For a national security advisor, that's pretty unusual, and then you didn't hear from her again after that for quite a while.

She was probably one of the most invisible national security advisers after those two incidents. So she already had a credibility problem with let's say half the country. So the fact that she is now trying to explain it and it doesn't actually quite make sense, why she said that 13 days ago that she didn't know anything about the reports.

Apparently she recently tweeted a moment ago saying "I did not know what reports Nunes was referring to when he spoke to the press. I still do not, but the full intelligence community needs to know." Again, I don't think this is -- I knew she had to come out today to defend herself, but I don't think she answered the mask.

BOLLING: Right. Greg, your thoughts on the media tribunal (ph).

GUTFELD: It is human nature, the longer you stake out of certain turf, the more investment you have in it. So CNN is investing a lot of their turf inclusion, so they can't let go of that, right? You could say the same thing for certain other conservative media. Invested in a certain story. We at least, I believe, do not dismiss the Russian story. We want investigations in the Russian story. We do not then dismiss the surveillance story.

We think that they equally deserve it. Look at it this way. You don't call my kid ugly. I don't call your kid fat. You indulge my scandal. I indulge your scandal. We must investigate both. Why not -- you know, and also have the freedom to contemplate all sides. Do not choose sides. It doesn't have to be a grudge match between surveillance and collusion because it's going to end, just like tic-tac-toe does. When it ends in a cat, you know, when you're a kid, that's what this is. That's what this is.

BECKEL: Greg, you should call me both fat and ugly.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: But they never called you a cat.

BOLLING: Can you give me one reason why the White House would want these names if the intel community was fine keeping these names masked?

BECKEL: Fine keeping them masked?

BOLLING: The names were masked and the White House, Susan Rice came from the White House and said -- CIA, FBI, and NSA. We need these names -- other than political.

BECKEL: First of all, I wish it were -- I hope it were political, number one.

PERINO: I don't think you are helping her.

GUTFELD: You would be the worst southern lawyer.

BECKEL: Wait a second. This is -- we are sitting on top potentially the biggest scandal in the history of the United States and we don't -- yes, we've covered it, I agree with you, and I'm glad we do, but I think the idea of biting into one of the Breitbart, and I do believe that Spicer doesn't tell the truth. They throw this out there and everybody goes running out there. In the meantime, the big story is sitting there not getting the kind of attention.

GUTFELD: Bob, you got to admit. This is a team sports set up for both sides. We all do this. It is like when we talk about Benghazi during the Obama administration found something else to talk about or the MSNBC finds something. This is just the way.

PERINO: They said we were ridiculous.

GUTFELD: Yeah. This is.

PERINO: Let it go.

GUTFELD: I think we have to admit that's what's going on here and it allows us to look at other stories like terror and the things that are causing immediate death.

GUILFOYLE: They should be followed and pursued on parallel paths.

GUTFELD: Right.

GUILFOYLE: They are of equal importance. You should make sure to investigate the Russian story while at the same time investigating surveillance of U.S. citizens.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

BECKEL: Do you think it's equal between the leaks and this?

BOLLING: There is more evidence.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. There is more evidence.

GUTFELD: There is more evidence on the leak right now.

BOLLING: If there are more.

GUTFELD: It could change. It could change.

BOLLING: There was a massive fourth amendment rights violated by somebody.
Who perpetrated it and for what reason? We all deserve that answer.

GUILFOYLE: And the surveillance, Bob, in terms of the unmasking and subsequent leaking leaking.

BECKEL: I can repeat myself. It is not illegal to unmasked. If you've been ordered by the president of the United States to check in every possible angle with the Russians trying to affect our election, which they did, then if you are Susan Rice or I was in that seat, I would unmask it too.

BOLLING: For what reason, Bob?

GUILFOYLE: And what was the (inaudible)?

BOLLING: If the intel community says we are fine keeping it masked, why does Susan Rice.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: First of all, you are the one who said this was surveilling Trump.
Turned out to be two entirely different.

BOLLING: I'm not sure what you're talking about.

BECKEL: What I'm talking about.

GUILFOYLE: Incidental collection.

BOLLING: The white House, under Susan Rice, demanded these names be unmasked when the CIA, FBI, NSA were absolutely fine keeping them.

BECKEL: They testify to that?

BOLLING: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: These are the facts in the report saying that they made a determination.

BOLLING: When Comey and Rogers testified two Mondays ago at the senate panel.

BECKEL: (inaudible).

PERINO: Can I say one thing. On the media part of it, last week when it was revealed through Michael Flynn's lawyer that he was going to offer to testify in exchange for immunity, every one of those networks that we put out, all the media covered that story from tooth to tail. This one is also a significant development and I think the argument here is doesn't that development also deserve the same kind of attention?

BECKEL: I don't disagree with covering the story. What I disagree with is the equivalency between this and the outrageous Russian investigation.

GUILFOYLE: They should both be covered when you look at the juxtaposition of the coverage and then the lack of coverage here by the mainstream media and the other cable networks.

BECKEL: This is all what said and done. The trump campaign and maybe Trump were in bed with Putin. They affected this election.

BOLLING: That is such a leap.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You say that she leaked that story.

BOLLING: I did not. I said someone leaked it. Can you please listen to me.
From the beginning, I said someone leaked the name. We know that for a fact and we know that is a felony. I didn't say her, but someone linked it.

BECKEL: How many names have leaked all the time?

GUILFOYLE: That is not.

BOLLING: We've got to go. We are being wrapped. We got to leave this. Next, this might cause some controversy. The Trump administration weighing an extreme vetting plan for all foreign travelers. We will tell you what it might lead to next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Throughout the campaign, candidate Trump promise there would be extreme vetting of immigrants and refugees entering the USA. As president, his administration is now reviewing whether to toughly vet all foreign travelers, even from countries we have alliances with, like France or Germany.

According to The Wall Street Journal, some of the new options under consideration include asking foreigners for their cell phones, their social media passwords or even financial records. This could apply to visa applicants, as well.

So Eric, I wanted to ask you, if you -- obviously, this is just a proposal.
This is not happening immediately. They're trying to think it through.
But it seems like it's either -- do you think it's a necessary step or maybe too tough on business?

BOLLING: I don't know. I think you're going to get a lot of pushback from businesses, because they really need those visa holders to come work.

But boy, you want to talk about extreme? Give us your mobile phones. We want to look into your social media passwords and financial records? Look
-- look, I think that may be just a little bit too far. I'm in favor of a tough, tough application process, but I'm more in favor of also getting people here on a legal basis, quicker and easier.

PERINO: Because it could -- there could be a quid pro quo. Right? So let's say that we said that the France, Germany, people coming to visit the USA from those countries that we're going to take -- get their passwords.
But the same could be asked of us. Would you go there if you had to turn over your password?

GUTFELD: It would be a great excuse not to go. I'll tell you that much.

PERINO: You wouldn't have to fly.

GUTFELD: I've got to go to a wedding in Greece. I don't want to go there.
And I hate destination weddings. They're so selfish.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. I hope they're not watching.

GUTFELD: They're in Greece. They don't know what I'm talking about.

No, but here's the thing.

PERINO: It's all Greek to them.

GUTFELD: If you rarely -- if you travel rarely, then this will be a rare imposition on you. If you are a frequent international traveler, I imagine there will be a process like TSA pre-check that will streamline this for you. So it's the people that travel rarely...

PERINO: Good point.

GUTFELD: ... that they -- that are going to be put through this.
Remember, vetting sounds -- you know, it sounds bad. But we're talking about really -- all we're trying to do is target a doctrine that is incompatible with freedom. And in order to maintain your freedom, which is fragile, you have to protect it. Freedom is like a Van Gogh or a Picasso in a museum. You don't just leave it out there. It's got to be protected so people can enjoy it.

PERINO: In order to make it legal, though, Kimberly, they have to make it sound broader than it is.

GUTFELD: Right. That is the PC move. Everyone's got to suffer, right?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. Some suffer more than others, it seems.

So here's the thing with this. You can understand that a lot of the countries subject -- if you go over to another country, they have subjected to these kind of extreme vetting or restrictions or requirements: "We want to delve into your information."

I'm all for protecting national security but obviously with upholding the law. But these are people that are not -- they're not doing this to U.S.
citizens as people coming in, but they want to make sure and verify their information.

We've all learned recently with events that have gone on in the world, people are able to obtain fake documents. And the problem is, and why this law came into effect to begin with, was that there was an inability to properly vet in certain countries. OK? They weren't able to verify that information. So that makes sense. It's specific and tailored to those places of unrest where they can't tell you who, in fact, that person is or how old they are. There's no, really, way to verify it.

So if you apply this to that and say those circumstances, but of course, there's probably going to be challenges, just like we saw with this travel...

PERINO: Now Bob, how you feel about giving out your password?

BECKEL: Are you kidding?

GUILFOYLE: Well, everyone knows.

BECKEL: That would be -- it's...

GUILFOYLE: Your birthday.

GUTFELD: Bob1234.

BECKEL: Wait a second.

PERINO: How do you safeguard the information after you have it?

BECKEL: I'm just -- just I think a point here that probably everybody will agree that Israel has the most...

PERINO: Toughest.

BECKEL: ... toughest vetting coming into their country.

PERINO: Right.

BECKEL: It doesn't compare to this. This has Banyon [SIC] written all over it.

GUILFOYLE: Bannon.

BECKEL: This sounds like something that the Germans had a 1938. I mean, the idea that you asked for cell phone or password, my password, you're going to be watching those films for a long time.

GUTFELD: The Germans didn't have cell phones in 1938.

BECKEL: Well, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that they put people through vetting that was unbelievable. This is un-American.

GUILFOYLE: You want everybody to get into your stuff.

PERINO: If President Obama had proposed it, though, Bob, would you have -- like, let's take the politics out of it.

BECKEL: I would've said the same thing. I take people's privacy as something that is sacrosanct in this country, and I don't think -- ever since they started this vetting, has anybody been picked up? Has any terrorist act occurred in the United States?

PERINO: Maybe we don't know that, and maybe we shouldn't know that.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, maybe -- yes, Bob. It's not, like, necessarily...

BECKEL: Well, I'll hand you my password. You can push -- never mind.

BOLLING: We need to highlight that this is going to mostly affect people who are trying -- I know it's a short shrift (ph) but mostly people that are trying to come over here on visas, who you know, we know some 35 to 40 percent jump their visa. And this would be a way to keep track.

GUILFOYLE: Guess what? Wait until Raqqah falls and all those fighters there return back to their home countries.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: We don't have -- and we don't know how to deal with it yet. It's a big deal. But that's what -- I do think that the -- do not worry about the regular international travel. There will be a way for that.

BOLLING: Right.

PERINO: All right. Ahead, a new attempt by President Trump to keep foreign workers from taking American jobs. Will it work? We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to protect your jobs by protecting our borders. And we'll crackdown on visa abusers that undermine the American worker, and we're doing that right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: And that was President Trump addressing his administration's new crackdown on employers that hire foreigners over Americans.

The Justice Department says it won't tolerate any misuse of the H1B visa processes to discriminate against U.S. workers and is threatening prosecution if discrimination is, in fact, discovered.

So Dana, this is an issue of tremendous concern, I think, to a lot of the people that supported President Trump and his movement of the forgotten men and women across the country that felt that, you know, country, the administration wasn't being responsive to their needs, their desire for gainful employment and work to be able to support their families.

PERINO: Well, there was a report on "60 Minutes" about two weeks ago that was mind-blowing and heart wrenching, as it was about these workers who -- so the H1B process is basically supposed to be that, if you are an employer and you cannot find an American to take that job, then you can take the step. And that usually happens with high-tech businesses.

GUILFOYLE: Like Silicon Valley.

PERINO: But what is happening now, in the "60 Minutes" report, was people who are just doing regular, you know, jobs that don't need highly-skilled professionals. Not that they're not professionals. They are. But they were then being made by their employers to train their replacements. So people that were coming in on H1B visas from wherever. In this case, it was India. And that American, who was getting kicked out of his job, was having to train the next guy, and it was humiliating and horrible.

So this is what -- that's the kind of practice that this is supposed to crackdown on I think it's a very good thing for, if you support Trump or don't, abuse of this process is terrible.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and this is important, because this has been going on.
Now it's been exposed, and something specific can be done about it, which hopefully will have a cumulative impact on our job numbers and gainful employment.

BOLLING: And I'm -- I'm having a hard time with this one, and I agree that was a heart-wrenching "60 Minutes" story. But there was a loophole in the H1B visa program that the senator put in. He said he wasn't anticipating it to get to this level at this point. But again, how do you anticipate, you know, 20, 30 years down the road change?

But it's gotten to the point where Dana is 100 percent right. Disney, a bunch of companies were ended up having their employees train their replacements, and it looked terrible.

Well, the bottom line is, there are workers from India who are coming over who can do the same job at a far lower price to the company without some of the benefits that they needed to provide an American.

So look, I understand this, but I want to be true to my bones, free- marketeer, I think you've got to be -- as a corporation, you've got to be able to hire who you want when you want to hire them and do the best -- the best for your shareholders.

GUILFOYLE: You have to follow the law and the rules.

BOLLING: They're not breaking the law. That's the problem. There's a loophole that was put in there. There's a backdoor loophole that they're exploiting, but it's still legal. And close a loophole, and I agree with you.

GUILFOYLE: Nevertheless, but they're exploiting. This was not. It flies in the face of the intention of the program and how it was supposed to be implemented.

BOLLING: Close the loophole. I would agree with that. Close the loophole.

GUILFOYLE: That's my point. And it shouldn't be at the expense of American workers, who deserve to have the jobs that they have and not to be thrown out by Google and Facebook and these high-tech companies that are abusing the process for their own profit and at the detriment of American workers.

BECKEL: Let's keep in mind the part of it that does work. I agree, by the way, with the policy, but I think that if you look at the -- Silicon Valley and some of the real break-throughs, a lot of it has come from people who had these visas, who are highly trained in a particular area of I.T. So we've got to be a little bit careful, but I think they're right; they're misusing it. They should be gotten out.

But at the same time, he said visas. If he goes to Logan Airport in Boston on a Monday, you'll see Aer Lingus drop off 300 people for a tourist visa of seven days. When they get back to get on the plane, there's about 100 of them left. The rest of them are bartenders in Boston.

So I think we'd better be -- let's follow through on all of it. OK? Those are jobs Americans could use.

GUILFOYLE: And they also have a new hotline to report H1B visa violations, as well. All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: I think that this has marginal value. You know, I think that the bigger question is focusing on the training and education of the native born. The transfer of work from horses to machines turned millions of horses into glue.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: So if automation does this to human beings, what is our glue?
What will we become?

Right now you've got Silicon Valley billionaires who are buying up remote cabins, building panic rooms, you know, safe houses, anticipating the onslaught of tens of millions of unemployed healthy Americans who are going to screen for the heads of the people who invented the very products that eliminated their livelihoods.

What are you going to do when you have 40 to 50 to 60 million people who have no function in society? Thirteen thousand jobs. These are routine tasks, temporary jobs. This is going to be nothing in 30 years. We've got a huge issue.

GUILFOYLE: Call your contractor. Build your panic room, Greg.

GUTFELD: I have a panic room in my panic room. That's how panicky I am.

GUILFOYLE: You really are a panic attack.

OK, ahead, a move pushed by Bernie Sanders to make college tuition free for all. His backup from his progressive friends in the Senate. But would Republicans ever get behind their bill? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: It was one of Bernie Sanders' signature proposals on the campaign
trail: free college for all. The senator hasn't given up his effort to make it a reality. He introduced his new bill yesterday, alongside Elizabeth Warren and others to make public universities and colleges tuition free.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Our job, if we are smart, is to do everything possible to make it easier for people to get the education they need, not harder.

How are we going to pay for? Well, I'll tell you how we're going to pay for it. We are going to ask wall street to end their speculation. We're going to put a speculation tax on Wall Street.

We are not going to leave school 50,000 or $100,000 in debt, when you give tax breaks to billionaires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: All right. We've got a short period of time here -- Eric.

BOLLING: I'll go very quickly. Bernie Sanders wants more socialized education. I go with free-market education. Top endowments in colleges in the United States: $32.7 billion at Harvard...

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: ... 25 billion to U.T.; 24 billion at Yale; 21 billion...

BOLLING: We're talking about public universities.

BOLLING: But here's the point, though. Make college and universities -- make it more competitive. The reason why this is happening is colleges are charging more and more and more, because they know student loan debt is going to be forgiven or excused. And they have no accountability to the free market.

PERINO: In addition to that, they bring in a lot more foreign students, because foreign students pay full out-of-state tuition. That's another reason that it goes up.

But I would also add that this is an industry that's ripe for innovation and disruption.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: So either expand high school by two years. If that's your goal, right? That's what some, like the woman who runs IBM thinks that that would be a good idea and help Americans keep jobs here. Or innovate the university. Find some other way to deal with it, competition wise.

BECKEL: Greg, you're a university man.

GUTFELD: Yes. Eternal law is if it's free, it's devalued. Where do you feel safer, your own bathroom or the bathroom in the New York Public Library? For a fact, I know which one's not safer.

It's great being a pinko, because you never have to pick up the check.
You're only generous with other people's money. I mean, did Sanders share his booty with the other candidates when he was running? He should go back to teaching driver's ed; and Elizabeth Warren should give tours at the local artifacts museum.

BECKEL: OK, that's good.

GUILFOYLE: There's no such thing as free education, and Warren and Bernie Sanders want to transfer the cost of this, obviously, to the American taxpayer. And look, I'm all for education, having been an educator, but...

BECKEL: I'll go last here as usual. This is now five for five on my...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Yes, because you haven't been talking, Bob.

GUILFOYLE: Because you don't talk, Bob. Why are you such a victim?

GUTFELD: You haven't said a single word.

BECKEL: Let me just say this: the reason I'm all in favor of this for public universities and public colleges is that the amount of tax money that people pay who get a college education versus those that don't will more than pay for what Bernie Sanders is talking about. You can leave, you know, your cherished Wall Street, at least around this table cherished Wall Street, people behind.

GUTFELD: Yes, you -- please.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, come on. Oh, God. Whatever.

BECKEL: Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: "One More Thing." Don't..

BECKEL: I can -- I can -- I'm going to tease after I stop getting beat up around here.

GUILFOYLE: Don't just -- don't yell it.

BECKEL: "One More Thing" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: I know! "One More Thing."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I hate these people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Let me just elaborate on why I don't like destination weddings.
You have to buy a ticket. You've got to get a hotel room. You've got to take time off. And if you don't do it, the message is you don't care enough about these people getting married. So you feel really guilty, and that forces you to go. I hate destination weddings.

All right. Bob.

GUILFOYLE: That was cheerful.

BECKEL: OK, the Pew Research Center came out with, again, a study about women making 83 percent of what men make. But Ivanka Trump, who lent her name to equality for women pay, and this is what she tweeted. I think we've got that tweet. Yes. Can somebody read that?

GUTFELD: "#EqualPayDay is a reminder that women deserve equal pay for equal work. We must work to close the gender pay gap!"

BECKEL: I think that's terrific, and we thank you very much for doing that, Ivanka.

GUTFELD: Fake news.

BECKEL: I noticed that your father threw you...

GUTFELD: There is no pay gap.

BECKEL: ... $785 million, and I think that's good you lend (ph)...

GUILFOYLE: Gosh.

PERINO: Oh, Bob

BECKEL: Fake news. Fake news.

GUILFOYLE: Let's just get through this.

PERINO: I have real news.

GUTFELD: Good.

PERINO: Real news about a dog named Dutch. He's a police dog. This took place in the United Kingdom in North Yorkshire, and he shows you the ultimate way to enter a vehicle. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(DOG HOPS THROUGH A WINDOW INTO A CAR, I SLOW MOTION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: That is Dutch. And he was showing that he has the gumption and the ability to do his job, and that's how he would enter a vehicle and then search the car, detain the suspect.

GUILFOYLE: Extreme vetting.

GUTFELD: Yes. I hear he has great breath.

PERINO: I hope he has good breath.

GUTFELD: Smell it from here.

Eric.

BOLLING: Also...

GUILFOYLE: Or Eric?

BOLLING: ... hosting the 7 p.m. tonight?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: "100 Days"?

PERINO: I'll see you in an hour.

BOLLING: There you go. Big interview with Senator McConnell, I believe, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: All right. Last night, big game, the NCAA Championship. It was Gonzaga and UNC. What a fantastic game, all the way down to under a minute. It was a one-point game going back and forth. University of North Carolina, congratulations. National champions, 71-65 win over Gonzaga.
And President Obama, I've got to hand it to you. You called it. Gonzaga zags.

GUTFELD: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right, thank you so much.

So I have some reading to recommend, Dana.

PERINO: Cool!

GUILFOYLE: You know I love a good...

PERINO: You love a good reading book.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God, yes. And I love the military. And so this is a book by my friend, Christopher Mark McKinley. It's called "Undaunted:
Life's Toughest Battles Are Not Always Fought In A War Zone." He has this fantastic book, which you're absolutely going to love.

And good news is, once you read this, he's got another one for you that's coming out, I believe, in June called "Enemy in the Wire." And it basically, explosive book. It throws the readers head-first into all the inter sanctions and workings of U.S. Special Operations.

And this book in particular really is all about his time serving in the military and with the SEALs. And it's really a great read. So...

PERINO: Awesome.

GUTFELD: Excellent. All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That does it for us. "Special Report" is up -- ha, ha, ha
-- next.

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