Obama's national security speech raises questions on legacy; Rep. Jordan on effort to impeach IRS commissioner

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," December 6, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Breaking tonight, President-elect Donald Trump takes his thank you tour to North Carolina and writes a bit of a new chapter for his plan for America promising to back global threats to beat those back and create new benefits for our veterans and new jobs for U.S. workers.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum in tonight for Megyn Kelly. Thanks for joining us. So, in a speech before a crowd of mostly military families in North Carolina, Mr. Trump a little bit late bad weather as they came into the state of North Carolina. But he got to the stage and he vowed to focus on defeating terrorism, destroying ISIS, and at one point as we expected he brought General James Mattis onto the stage.  He calls him Mad Dog even though the General says, that's not really his favorite nickname. He doesn't seem to rebuff the President-elect too much on that.

So, he's been selected of course to become American's next Secretary of Defense. But the military wasn't the only issue that President-elect Trump talked about tonight. Let's watch some of it. All right. We're going to get to that in just a moment. But it was really so much of a discussion today was about deals and the art of the deal, shall we say. He started this morning at Trump Tower and he carried those make America great themes on the economic front to Fayetteville tonight.

In moments, we're going to get reaction from Trump's transition team member. Anthony Scaramucci and Democrat Bob Zimmerman.

But first, let's go to our senior national correspondent John Roberts traveling with the President-elect today in Fayetteville, North Carolina, with reaction from the room there. John, good evening to you.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening to you. You know, I guess you could say if Donald Trump now the transition to the positive message is finally complete. That's the way he started off, it is his first stop on the Thank You tour in Cincinnati last week.  And then all of a sudden, cut on to a tangent that was almost like Festivus with the airing of grievances. Remember Jerry Stiller, I got a problem with you, people.

That's where Trump went for 15 or 20 minutes in Cincinnati. Almost none of that tonight. There was some acknowledgement that a lot of people said, he wasn't going to win. But even when he talked about the media when the crowd started booing, Trump said no, they finally get it, but this is a movement that they've never seen before and they have to acknowledge that Trump has done something very unique in this country.

You know, he talked a lot about the idea that the future of America's book or the book of the future of America has yet to be written and he pointed out to people in the crowd, and he did this in Cincinnati. What we know -- why we don't know is the eventual outcome. We do know that the pages, they are going to be written by each and every one of you. As you can imagine here in Fayetteville which is just down the street from the 82nd airborne headquarters in Fort Bragg, Camp Lejeune, the big marine base is not too far from here, a lot of military people in the audience. And Trump paid a big tribute to the military tonight saying that military families are a national treasure and that he is going to pledge to take care of each and every one of them.

Also reiterating his plan to rebuild the military but casting it not as an act of aggression but an act of prevention, repeating what Ronald Reagan said back in the 1980s, the doctrine of peace through strength. Then he brought out General Mattis, who says, Mad Dog plays no games. Mattis came out, only spoke for about 30 seconds or so. But one of the things that he said that is critical in this whole idea of him getting the nod as Secretary of Defense is, if I get that waiver from Congress.

Then Donald Trump came back and said, he'll get that waiver from Congress.  If he doesn't, there's going to be an awful lot of angry people in this country because he has not been retired from the military, Martha, he needs a special waiver from Congress so that he can take that position as the civilian head of the Pentagon. The Republicans are inserting a continuing budget deal this Friday. It was called qualifying legislation, they would sort of grease the skids for that to happen. That's going to run up against opposition from Democrats, Martha. So, we'll see how all of that goes between now and Friday. Back to you.

MACCALLUM: John, thank you very much. So, let's take you back to Fayetteville from this evening, hear some of what Mr. Trump had to say to that very embracing crowd. Watch.


PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP: Every generation a new threat to freedom arises. And just as we defeated these threats, we faced generations in the past and you understand that so, too, will we defeat the forces of terrorism. It's unseen in many cases but we'll going to defeat that force, and we're going to defeat it strongly and quickly.


We will prevail. We will stop raising the topple foreign -- and you understand this. Foreign regimes that we know nothing about. That we shouldn't be involved with. Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying ISIS.


MACCALLUM: So joining me now, Anthony Scaramucci, he is a member of President-elect Donald Trump's transition team's executive committee. And Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic strategist. Gentlemen, great to have you both here.



MACCALLUM: So, I want to talk about, I want to kind of dial back to what started this morning as a pretty fascinating day with a couple of stories.  I want to get to Boeing in just a moment. But I want to focus first on this issue of the Japanese banker. Because the President-elect sort of brought this gentleman out. He tweeted to all of his followers that this deal would never have happened. This banker has decided to bring $50 million worth of his business over to the United States. It's kind of like a deal a day, Anthony, that we're getting here.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, it may even be a deal an hour. I mean, you've got a world class dealmaker at the top of the American presidency. And so, what I think the message that he wants to bring to the American people he's going to be out there working for them. He wants to make the country great and he wants to improve the quality of life for middle-class people and working class families in the country.

And so, Masayoshi Son who was a banker, because -- he's really a venture capitalist, he is so much more of a banker. And so, for him to be investing that kind of money in our society right now, is a very big message to the world that the United States is going to be open for business with President-elect Trump as president. And it's very exciting for people.

MACCALLUM: It does bring an optimism and I know Democrats will say, well, you know, 1,000 jobs here --

ZIMMERMAN: No, not at all.

MACCALLUM: What do you mean?

ZIMMERMAN: First I have to say my congratulations to my friend Anthony.  He worked so hard in this election and it was such a great victory. You worked so hard, you and the president-elect.


No, but I just -- he indeed were just winners and I want to just acknowledge that.

SCARAMUCCI: I wanted to get my wife into the equation that's why he said that.


ZIMMERMAN: I know who is really the power in the family. Okay. I know the power.

MACCALLUM: It's always the wife.

ZIMMERMAN: But the point simply here is, I think we all want to see our economy grow and it's not a partisan issue. And I would wish more Republicans acknowledged we have the greatest private sector job growth in our country's history, under President Obama and look at how the market has done under his administration, how strong it's been. It's clearly is important. Now, I think when we saw the announcement of the investment of the jobs by the Japanese today that important announcement Mr. Son made, it's great.

But let's also understand. It didn't happen in two weeks. He's been planning this for a very long time and it was very appropriate that he made this announcement with the President-elect. I'm not dismissing that. But let's also be mindful, he's a principal owner -- a principal shareholder in Sprint. And he wanted to do a deal with T-Mobile and it was rejected in 2013. Maybe he's trying to get his good graces and to get that deal back on the boards.

MACCALLUM: I mean, Donald Trump was tweeting that, the deal never would have happened.

SCARAMUCCI: But you like that fact that people are investing and America's open for business, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: America has been open for business regularly. It's not open for business, one administration of the other. And I think it's great that he's investing. I think it's great that the President-elect is making this his focus and I think he can do well with Democrats on it, too.

MACCALLUM: There seems to be a joy that surrounds these deals --

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: And, you know, the scene that we saw at Carrier earlier or last week rather, there's sort of an optimism that surrounds these moments of kind of celebrating jobs and celebrating American corporations. It's very interesting. But let's watch what Doug McKelway put together on the Boeing deal. Because I want to get a little bit more from him on that.

Mr. Trump raised really a ruckus on Twitter today calling out Boeing for its latest Air Force One price tag. Mr. Trump wrote this, quote, "Boeing is building a brand-new 747 Air Force one for future presidents but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!"

Doug McKelway joins us with what happened after that. Doug.

DOUG MCKELWAY, FOX NEWS GENERAL ASSIGNMENT REPORTER: Hi, Martha. When markets opened this morning, Boeing's stock priced had dropped $2 a share after that early morning Donald Trump tweet, a tweet that Trump later reiterated in person with a rare appearance in the lobby of the Trump Tower.


TRUMP: Well, the plane is totally out of control. It's going to be over $4 billion. It's for Air Force One program. And I think it's ridiculous.  I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number. We want Boeing to make a lot of money but not that much money. Okay, thank you.


MCKELWAY: No one seems to know where Trump came up with that number of $4 billion. Boeing says, it spent $170 million for initial research thus far.  The Air Force has told us, it has budgeted 2.7 billion in 2017 but, quote, "Expects this number to change as the program matures." Regardless of the hard numbers, it's clear that Trump is sending a signal that business as usual in Washington will not stand.


By about half of all Pentagon contracts only have one bidder. If the President-elect's intent is to say we need to reform how the Pentagon does business, then he's absolutely right.


MCKELWAY: But Trump may have had another purpose, to reaffirm his long- standing campaign pledge to punish American companies that move manufacturing overseas. Both Boeing and Lockheed Martin are looking at building F-18 and F-16 fighter jets in India. There's a potential down side to Trump's call, to cancel the contract. The Air Force has said that buying spare parts for aging aircraft may turn out to be more expensive than buying admittedly pricey new planes.

Martha, back to you.

MACCALLUM: So, thank you, Doug McKelway. So, we're sort of learning to speak Donald Trump's language here. When he goes $4 billion, sometimes it might be $170 million. But the point is that, he's saying we spend too much money on stuff on this stuff, Robert.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, I think the point that was made just now in the package is very important. And that is, it may be sending a message, and this is where I think President-elect Trump can work with Democrats, that if you're going to ship your jobs overseas, we're going to be tough on you because the Democrats have had many pieces of legislation. And for example, under our tax code, you get a tax break as a business if you move your business, for moving, you get your tax break if you move your business overseas. You get a tax deduction. Now Democrats have been trying to block it. Republicans have been all for this and have never stood up on the issue. Now Donald Trump may be able to form a bipartisan coalition but Democrats on it.

MACCALLUM: You bring up a very interesting point. Because typical conservatives, Republicans say, look, let them -- it's a free market. Let them make the money the best way they can. If it's cheaper to get the labor overseas, what their job is, as a corporations, to make money for that corporation, they're shareholders.

SCARAMUCCI: But I think it's also to be responsible from the government side in terms of procurement. Let's make the thing very fair to the American people and make the process somewhat competitive. And so, the $4 billion number comes from the $2.7 plus the expected overruns when you do this and analysis --  

MACCALLUM: They're always are.

SCARAMUCCI: -- with the Pentagon. So, I want to push back on what the numbers are. I think the President-elect really says this, a $4 billion number, he likes things on time and under budget, Martha, and I think that Washington has to get ready for that because he's starting to staff people at the Pentagon like General Mattis and others that he's going to bring on the team. They're going to be very focused on this and screening out the waste and giving that money back to the American people. Isn't that what we all want?

MACCALLUM: Yes. I think you're probably right.

ZIMMERMAN: With Anthony on the job, you have a good shot of that happening. Let me tell you.

MACCALLUM: Well, just like with the Carrier deal it turned out to be about that and also about the United Technologies. It's part of the operation.  In this one, you have also got this deal with the F-16s and the F-14s, when they're going to be outsourcing some of that to India, some of that business. And I know that they squabble with exactly how that would break out. But they want to make sure they keep some of those jobs in Texas as well which they promised to do. So, it's a big, broad message that is sending one I think very clearly to these companies.

SCARAMUCCI: It's a lot of fun. It's an exciting time in America and for the citizens of America, we are open for business.

MACCALLUM: Anthony Scaramucci, Robert Zimmerman, great to see you, guys.

ZIMMERMAN: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much for being here tonight.

So, also tonight what Mr. Trump said about terrorism, it was different from what President Obama said in a National Security speeches, the final one of his presidency. He had a message to get across. So, what was it?

Marc Thiessen and Matt Bennett compare and contrast, next.

Plus, the issue of immigration also came up in the president-elect's speech tonight. Less than 24 hours after California made a move to become America's first sanctuary state. Not just sanctuary cities but the entire state. When we come back on a very busy night right after this.



TRUMP: We will stop raising the topple foreign -- and you understand this, foreign regimes that we know nothing about. That we shouldn't be involved with. Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying ISIS. This destructive cycle of intervention and chaos must finally folks come to an end. Come to an end. We build up our military not as an act of aggression but as an act of prevention. We pursue and build up arms not in order to seek conflict but in order to avoid conflict. We want to be strong. In short, we seek peace through strength.



MACCALLUM: That is the President-elect speaking less than an hour ago promising a different foreign policy than we have seen over the course of the last eight years. That comes on the same day that the House of Representative issued a new security report painting a frightening picture of the threats that face America and also on the same day when President Obama took a victory lap on his efforts to keep the country safe.

Listen to the President earlier today.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Today, by any measure, core al Qaeda. The organization that hit us on 9/11, is a shadow of its former self. We are breaking the back of ISIL. We're taking away its safe haven.  We should take great pride in the progress that we've made over the last eight years. That is the bottom-line. No foreign terrorist organize has successfully planned and executed an attack on our homeland. But the pain of those who lost loved ones in Boston and San Bernardino and Fort Hood and Orlando, that pain continues to this day. So what we've made it much more difficult, you have made it much more difficult to carry out an attack, approaching the scale of 9/11, the threat will endure.


MACCALLUM: Hmm. More with Fox News contributor and former chief speechwriter to President George W. Bush, Marc Thiessen and co-founder of Third Way and former deputy assistant to President Clinton, Matt Bennett.

Gentlemen, welcome to both of you. Good to have you here.



MACCALLUM: You know, when you listen to how carefully warded the President's phrases are there, things like core al Qaeda and you look at the wider picture of Islamic terrorism that we have seen in terms of attacks from, you know, Nice and Paris and all over and the ones that he mentioned here at home, is it a difficult argument to make? Matt, let me start with you.  

BENNETT: You know, I don't think so. Because as he pointed out, the people that hit us on 9/11, that organization has, if not been dismantled, has been incredibly weakened. Obviously we got Bin Laden, we've got much of their top leadership and they're really no longer the force that they were in the world. What has happened to the United States domestically in the eight years of the Obama presidency is very similar to what happened under Bush after 9/11 which is to say there were no coordinated terrorist attacks here the way that there have been in Europe.

MACCALLUM: I mean, Marc, it sounds like something that should make you feel good. But it just doesn't -- I don't think it make most people feel good.

THIESSEN: It would make me feel good if they were true. Unfortunately it's not true. I mean, look, the reality is, is that Al Qaeda is not weaker now than it was when President Obama took over. It's stronger. Its affiliates around the world -- I'm sorry, Matt, you're wrong.

BENNETT: I'm not wrong.

THIESSEN: It is the biggest terrorist network -- Al Qaeda affiliate is the biggest, their affiliate in Syria is one of the biggest threats to America.  Their affiliate in Yemen --


MACCALLUM: You're talking about ISIS?

THIESSEN: No, I'm talking about al Qaeda. Al Qaeda --

MACCALLUM: Well, Al Qaeda, ISIS --

THIESSEN: The Al-Nusra Front --

MACCALLUM: You can point to Al-Nusra Front. You can point to numerous groups that have now spread into something like 29 countries over the course of the last eight years, killed more than 2,000 people and you look at the advances that were made under, you know, during the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and then when we pulled out these groups splintered and grew.  So, I think, you know, Marc, I know, this is just the point that you're making, it's a tough argument.

THIESSEN: It is a tough argument. So, Al Qaeda is stronger than it was.  Every National Security expert who studies this will tell you that Al Qaeda is not weak. And they're very strong. And then you have ISIS. When President Obama came into office, his own CIA Director John Brennan said that al Qaeda had been in Iraq, ISIS had been decimated. They had only about 700 adherence. Today they have tens of thousands of adherence, they are in Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Algeria, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria and Afghanistan. They carried out attack in Paris, and Brussels and Nice, and they're coming after us.


BENNETT: We know that. We know that -- there's no question ISIS is a huge threat in that region in the world and in Europe. But the fact of the matter is that thankfully ISIS has not been able to or not attempted to try --


BENNETT: Perhaps yet, but let me be clear about something. Marc seems to be laying this at the feet of President Obama. Let's remember who broke the Middle East which was the war of choice that President Bush fought in Iraq and then negotiated --

MACCALLUM: Matt, I hear what you're saying but I think what people do feel uncomfortable with is the President painting any sort of rosy picture about big accomplishments here. Because I think they feel like the world is much less safe. So wouldn't it be better for the President to really give it to people in an honest way in terms of what he sees and what so many see as a threat that it is growing out there and that we do need to step up our efforts with. Matt, go ahead.

BENNETT: Well, look, I think, yes. But I think he has done that. What Obama has been criticized for is his nuance when it comes to foreign policy and he is clear that things in the Middle East are very, very bad. Things in Libya went South. Things in Syria are horrifically bad.

MACCALLUM: Yes, they are.

THIESSEN: Name a place where they're good.


MACCALLUM: All right.

THIESSEN: Name a place where they're good, Matt. I mean, they're not good anywhere. He was citing his progress in Afghanistan today. The Obama administration recently bragged that they blew up, they launched an attack on an Al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan when he came to office there were no Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan.

MACCALLUM: Gentlemen, thank you.

THIESSEN: The world is more dangerous everywhere.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Conversation to continue. Matt Bennett, Marc Thiessen, thank you, gentlemen.

So we also heard Mr. Trump talking about border security tonight, less than 24 hours after California took steps to become the first sanctuary state in the country. David Wohl and Julie Roginsky on that.

Plus, House Republicans tonight joined Democrats and derailed an effort to impeach the IRS Commissioner John Koskinen. This is fascinating. When I take you back through this road, you're going to wonder what's going on here. We have brand-new reaction from Congressman Jim Jordan who has been leading that fight since day one.



REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO, OUTGOING CHAIRMAN, HOUSE FREEDOM CAUCUS: The form of the resolution Mr. Speaker is House Resolution 828 impeaching John Andrew Koskinen and commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service for high crimes and misdemeanors. You might want to listen to what we say first and then you can moan or groan.


MACCALLUM: That was today. Outgoing Freedom Caucus Chairman Jim Jordan putting forward a motion to impeach IRS Commissioner John Koskinen. Low and behold, House Republicans then joined Democrats to derail the effort voting instead to send the issue to the Judiciary Committee because that will take a little bit longer for further review. The Freedom Caucus has been leading the charge against Koskinen for more than a year accusing him of misleading Congress during the investigations, the IRS, targeting of conservative groups back in 2013 and you might wonder, was anyone ever held accountable for that? Actually, no. No one really ever was.

Here to explain the resolution and where it goes from here, Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan. Congressman, welcome. Good to have you here.

JORDAN: Good to be with you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes. The first question is, why did your own Republican friends on your side of the aisle not go along with you on this?

JORDAN: Look, I don't understand that. They sent the resolution to the very committee where it's been for the last 18 months. So, in essence that it was sent there so that we wouldn't be able to actually impeach John Koskinen and hold him accountable. I mean, my attitude is this election was about doing what hardworking families want us to do and part of that is draining the swamp and making sure people who do wrong things are held accountable. Never forget what John Koskinen did.

When he came in as commissioner, he learned that there were missing Lois Lerner e-mails. He waited months to tell Congress while we were in the middle of several investigations. And in that same time frame, the IRS destroyed 422 backup tapes containing potentially 24,000 e-mails. And then when he testified in front of Congress, he made numerous statements that turn out to be false. Any private citizen who has that kind of behavior and the IRS is auditing them would be in big trouble.

But somehow this town, it's okay to put this resolution back in the committee where it's been for 18 months and not actually vote to impeach this guy. I just -- I'm disappointed that's the way it turned out and I think the American people are, too.  

MACCALLUM: I mean you just go back in your mind to all of those people who were Tea Party groups who wanted to have their tax exempt status and they were put to the grill, some were investigated. Strange things happened to them, you know in terms of what is going on their homes and environment, and they were horrified by what is happening. Nothing ever happen, Lois Learner, it all just sort of went by the wayside. Nobody ever, ever really paid the piper for that did they?

JORDAN: No. And here's the clincher. It still continues, right? They're still doing it. Just two weeks ago, we learned that the Albuquerque Tea Party which applied for tax exempt status seven years ago went to court to try to get this worked out, was ultimately denied just two weeks ago by the Internal Revenue Service. The targeting still continues as evidenced by the case by the Albuquerque Tea Party.

MACCALLUM: Are you upset with Paul Ryan, his spokesperson said basically, you know it's time to move on to the Trump agenda. We have a lot of stuff we want to accomplish. We're not going down this road.

JORDAN: The American people this election are, appropriately so, are fed up with this double standard, the idea there's one set of rules for you and me and we the people, and a different standard for the politically connected like John Koskinen and Hillary Clinton. That is not supposed to be you how it works in this country. It is supposed to be equal treatment under the law. No citizen could get away with this behavior, but somehow it's ok for John Koskinen. We got a whole people accountable if we are going to keep this amazing principle in this great country that says everyone, regardless of what high position that they may hold. Everyone is treated equally under the law.

MACCALLUM: Well apparently no executive branch official has been ousted since 1876. So it is very easy to keep your job if you work in that town.  Thank you very much.

JORDAN: You bet.

MACCALLUM: Congressman, good to see you as always.

JORDAN: You bet, thank you.


TRUMP: Right now thousands and thousands and thousands of people are pouring into our country. We have no idea who they are, where they come from, do they love us. In a lot of cases, no, they don't love us. A Trump administration will always put the safety and security of the American people first.


MACCALLUM: A little while ago tonight in North Carolina. A Kelly File follow-up now, President-elect Trump showing no signs of backing down on the immigration front suggesting that we could see a big clash between the Feds and officials in California, where Democrats are taking steps to make California the first sanctuary state in the country. For more on this I'm joined by David Wohl Attorney in David and Donald Trump supporter and Julie Roginsky a Democratic strategist and Fox News contributor. Welcome to both of you. Good to have you both here tonight. You know a sanctuary state, good idea, Julie?


JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Martha. I'm not sure if it's so much a sanctuary state as it is a proposal in the legislature to provide more legal aid to people who are not here legally in order to make sure they don't get support without due process.  That is not providing sanctuary so much as it is providing due process to everybody living in this country regardless of immigration status. And that may be something that Donald Trump and Republicans are opposed to, but certainly many people in California and around the country think that our laws should apply equally to those who are here legally and those who are here not legally.

MACCALLUM: I guess, David, one of the things that is sort of a head scratcher is that it's been made clear that the first concern is people who are criminals, we just looked at a picture Kate Steinle and the man who killed her who was kicked out of the country five times and allowed to get back in without being prosecuted under the law that is already in place.  So should people who are law abiding citizens, who live here illegally, should they be concerned at this point?

WOHL: Well, that is exactly right and these legislators are blurring the line between the people who haven't committed a crime but are here illegally and those who have committed serious crimes like the gentleman - like the man who killed Kate Steinle. Look, this isn't sanctuary from persecution. This is sanctuary from the rule of law, from a legal process, and that is what makes it illegal, it's incredibly reckless.

And guess what, Martha, this risk not having federal funding just cut off from a City or a county but an entire state of 39 million and 75 people as of today. It is reckless and if done for political expediency, because we all know that Jerry Brown and his cronies all think that the people who are coming to the rescue of are going to vote Democrat. That is what this boils down to. And they can also be prosecuted, I might add, for harboring fugitives, fro obstruction of justice, it's a giant mess. I think they need to drop it now and you are right, Mr. Trump is going to go after the worst of the worst and not the law-abiding people who are here working and just happen to need legal status.

MACCALLUM: And Julie, that is one of the issues, I think a lot of people who come into this country and you know, their visa runs out, they leave, they go back to their country, they wait for three years, they reapply, they get in, they sometimes have to pay exorbitant fees to attorneys, so that they can legally stay here. They look at what's going on in California, and say, why do they get different rules than I got? Why did I have to spend most of my life savings in order to stay here and they get to come in and everybody is going to protect them?

ROGINSKY: Look, let's be clear that most of the people that are here now are not leaving. Unless Donald Trump wants to deport over 20 - 11 million immigrants who are not here legally, which I don't think even he is proposing anymore although he did proposed it at one point, you know that is a nice pipe dream, but it's not going to get done and if it is going to get done, that means we are going to spend billions upon billions having a national security force.

MACCALLUM: Are you ok with protecting criminals?


MACCALLUM: People who have broken the law and are living there illegally.

ROGINSKY: Very different.

MACCALLUM: Right. I mean it is different but you can't lump it all in together. That is the problem.

ROGINSKY: You're not. I want to add one thing to what David said.

MACCALLUM: Go ahead Julie.

ROGINSKY: Look, the reality is they are saying these are people who are going to vote Democratic. They cannot vote. They are not citizens.

WOHL: Not yet. Watch what happens.

ROGINSKY: Watch what happens when? It didn't happen under Barack Obama, it didn't happen under Bill Clinton. It is going to happen under Donald Trump? How is it going to happen?

WOHL: Julie is right about one thing. Mr. Trump isn't going to go after the 11 million who aren't causing all kinds of problems or who weren't committing crimes, but the legislators Jerry Brown and the people like Gil Garcetti and Charlie Beck, the police chief in L.A., they're blurring that line, they are pretending like he is going to go after everybody, just a total lie.

ROGINSKY: Well he said that earlier, by the way.

MACCALLUM: Julie and David, thank you very much.

ROGINSKY: Thank you.

WOHL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So coming up a colossal turnaround in Germany as Chancellor Angela Merkel calls for a ban of the Burqa. Alia Salem of CAIR, Dallas, Brigitte Gabriel, excuse me, Act for America will be here to discuss, plus the story behind why some folks are trying to ban one of the most popular Christmas carols of all time.


Baby its cold outside.

You got to go away.

Baby its cold outside.



MACCALLUM: Developing tonight in a remarkable 180 German chancellor Angela Merkel is calling for a ban of Burqa's. In the country were tensions remains high over Muslim refugees, in moments we will be joined by CAIR's Alia Salem, and Act for America founder Brigitte Gabriel, here to discuss them. First let's go to Trace Gallagher who is on assignment in Hawaii for the details on this turnaround. Trace, good evening.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And it really is, Martha, good evening to you, a difference of a few months, because just last summer Angela Merkel was saying that there should be no full ban on Islamic clothing saying that, in fact, Germany needs to strike a balance and that Muslim women need to use common sense about when to wear a Burqa. Today she said a full veil is not appropriate and that it should be outlawed wherever possible. Watch.


TRANSLATOR: With inter human communication which plays a crucial role here, we show our faith. That is why the complete veiling is not appropriate and should be forbidden wherever it is legally possible. It does not belong to us.


GALLAGHER: Merkel actually also talked about strengthening German immigration laws. Of course her immigration policy has come under fire from the right saying it caused the refugee crisis. If the Burqa ban goes into effect it would need lawmaker approval and right now as you said Martha that tension over the refugees and the asylum seekers in Germany has never been higher after the rape and murder of a 19-year-old medical student allegedly by a 17-year-old Afghan refugee. In fact, even the head of Germany's police union said that it was Merkel's policy that actually led to the death of this woman. We should note that 19-year-old victim was actually helping asylum seekers integrate into the German population. Even some lawmakers on the left have said it is now time for the vetting of refugees to get a whole lot tougher. Martha?

MACCALLUM: The conversation is clearly changing on this. Thank you very much, Trace Gallagher in Hawaii tonight. So joining me now, Alia Salem is the Executive Director of CAIR Dallas, Alia, good to have you with us this evening.


MACCALLUM: What's your reaction to Angela Merkel's change of tune here?

SALEM: I think it's going against what a Democratic society would put worth as a balanced way of approaching this, especially one that puts forth, you know a basic law that states that, you know religious liberties and the practice of one's religion, should be remain uninhibited and un- infringed upon by the government. So, I think she is going against her own government and her own constitution and law. And I think that it is in appropriate.

MACCALLUM: What do you think about what she just said there when she talked about the openness of the society in Germany. She is been under an enormous amount of pressure. They opened the door to, what they understood, it is going to be 300,000 refugees, in fact close to a million, I think close to 900,000 at least to this point. She is under a lot of political pressure and people feel that some of the refugees have made them less safe. She said we're an open community and communication is something we value and having an open face is part of that in Germany, part of that in the western world. So isn't it incumbent upon people who in some cases choose to wear Burqa's to accept the fact that they now are living on the side, they have chosen to moved to a place that values open communication and part that have is showing your face.

SALEM: This really isn't about that, though. This is about scoring political points on the right, it is about taking a stance that will appease a certain part of the voting population, a certain part of the government, and the timing is not, you know a coincidence her announcing her run for a fourth term. So that is really what this is about. This isn't about open communication or a German way of life.

MACCALLUM: She clearly responding to anger and political pressure, I think you're absolutely right about that. She watched now Lensy loose his position in Italy, David Cameron is gone. Francois Hollande is gone. We saw the pushback of what happened in his country when they wouldn't let people wear Burqas on the beach last summer. France has been attacked several times by violent Islamic extremists in his country. So she is succumbing to political pressure and you feel that the way she is doing it here is not appropriate. What do you think would be appropriate?

SALEM: You know, I think it's important for you to find other ways than going against your constitution, going against your laws that uphold religious liberties. Find other ways to bridge the gap. Legislating women's clothing is not the answer for her to keep her place and her office.

MACCALLUM: All right, Alia Salem, thank you very much for being here tonight. Now here with more, Brigitte Gabriel, founder and CEO of Acts for America, welcome. Good to have you with us tonight, Brigitte.


MACCALLUM: Talk to me. What do you think about what you just heard?

GABRIEL: Well, Angela Merkel realizes she has a problem and she needs to fix the problem if she wants to be re-elected. She also is recognizing that the whole multiculturalism thing does not work. Actually she said more in her speech than just banning the Burqa. She said we need to preserve our culture. We do not want a tribal practices or a tribal culture coming. We do not want Sharia law. We do not want people coming with a different set of values. It has become very clear in western nations and especially in Europe, because of the large influx of the Islamic population in Europe that the Muslims are immigrating is not assimilating, at the Burqa is basically a sign not just of clothing but also sign of radicalism in a community. The more you see more Burqa's on the street, the more you realize that the community is infested with terrorism and it's the beginning signs of radicalism and that is what they are trying to combat.

MACCALLUM: You heard the last guest said its freedom of religion and that any democracy should respect freedom of religious liberty.

GABRIEL: Well this has nothing to do with freedom of religion. Muslims are welcome to practice their religion in any western nation. They can pray. They can build a mosque, they can worship whatever god they want.  Actually they have more freedom than any westerners have, people like you and me, and any Muslim country, but we are trying to find a balance where Muslims can come to our western nation and basically assimilate and have an identity. Women are equal in our societies it to men. A Burqa renders a woman basically nonexistent, she is invisible. It's like trying to hide her. Render her nonexistence and this is not what we have in the west.

Women have equal rights. We do not want Sharia law imposed on women in the west. STODDARD: western women they have the same rights as American women, as Britain women, as Australian women, and that is what the west is trying to strike that balance and that is what Angela Merkel is referring to, is trying to find the middle ground where Muslim women can come to the country. They can wear a hijab as long as they show their face. We have to be able to look at her driver's license and see a person's face to identify to make sure that they are the correct owner of a car. They are the correct person they say they are. Not to mention the terrorism. When you have a Burqa you can wear a suicide bomber, you can be a man and we couldn't tell the difference, because you have a cover.

MACCALLUM: Brigitte Gabriel, thank you very much. Good to see you again.

GABRIEL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So we'll finish on a lighter note here tonight. A Christmas classic to snuggle up to is under attack today as some suggest that the lovely song "Baby It's Cold Outside" which suggests maybe they stay inside and cuddle up sends a very sinister message.


Baby it's cold outside




Baby it's cold outside


MACCALLUM: See, the Christmas time classic generating heated debate online after a new article suggests that "Baby It's Cold Outside" has nothing to do with love, that it is really a song about, get this, date rape. Come on.  Some people are so disgusted that they've written their own pc version.  Trace Gallagher on his assignment in the very warm Pearl Harbor of Hawaii.  Hello, Trace.

GALLAGHER: It is warm outside Martha, yeah the song is 72 years old and now the critics say the lyrics are offensive. They are aggressive, you talk about date rape, and they are saying that, because the guy in the song actually drugged the woman's drink. They are saying, look you can say in the lyrics every time she says she wants to leave he says, baby, its cold outside, so now a Minneapolis couple has change the lyrics. Watch.


I really can't stay

Baby I'm fine with that

I got to go away

Baby I'm cool with that

This evening has been, hoping you get home safe I'm glad you had a real good time


GALLAGHER: In the second verse of the original she says I ought to say no, no, no, sir. And he says do you mind if I move in closer. She responds at least I'm going to say that I tried. He says, what's the sense in hurting my pride? She says, I really can't stay. And finally he says, baby, don't hold out. They changed that, too. Watch.


I ought to say no, no, no

You reserve the right to say no.

At least I'm going to say that I tried

You reserve the right to say no

I really can't stay

Well, you don't have to


GALLAGHER: The couple says they're trying to raise awareness over date rape, but others say come on, are you kidding me, this was a song written 72 years ago trying to say that men are evil and trying to manipulate women and it really was a song just about romance, Martha.

MACCALLUM: that is right and she goes maybe just half a drink more. She is looking for reason to stay for another five minutes. There's a little sexual tension in the song that sort of, is exciting and good. That is what it's all about. Trace, all right. Sorry I had to explain that. Have a great night, everybody. See you tomorrow morning at 9:00.


MACCALLUM: I don't want to go outside, it's cold outside. I want to stay right here. That is how the song goes. It's romantic. Thank you so much everybody. Now I will see you tomorrow morning. Have a good night.

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