Gingrich on why a Romney pick would betray Trump supporters; Campus flag-burning sets off First Amendment debate

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 29, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight, President-elect Donald Trump and Governor Mitt Romney right now wrapping up a dinner that is reportedly causing heartburn for millions of Trump supporters.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Moments ago, we got pictures of the President-Elect having dinner with Governor Mitt Romney and incoming White House Chief-of-Staff Reince Priebus. They're eating at a Trump hotel in Manhattan. And we are waiting to see if any of them makes remarks to the press poll when they're done. The Romney meeting may be the most controversial yet for the President-elect on a day when he announced Elaine Chao as his pick for Transportation Secretary and this is a topic Steven Mnuchin for the Treasury Department.

That had critics asking whether Mr. Trump was betraying the folks who elected him since these are not exactly the outsiders that Mr. Trump promised. The former Goldman Sachs partners actually a Hollywood financier. And Ms. Chao was not only a Bush White House staffer but she is married to the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich will join us in moments on this. He is not happy with the Romney sit-down.

But first Peter Doocy is live outside of Trump Tower. Peter?

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the President-elect picked a place just a few blocks away from here for his big dinner with Mitt Romney. It's the French restaurant Jean-Georges which is inside another Trump property and which has three Michigan stars which means that it is just about as fancy a restaurant there is in New York City or anywhere on planet earth. Even though Jean-Georges is surrounded by Secret Service right now, we have seen some pictures trickling out from the inside.

And they showed Trump holding court, saying something why Mitt Romney and incoming White House Chief-of-Staff Reince Priebus listen intently. Priebus who you see sitting there is the only person from Trump's center circle who publicly defend Mitt Romney over the last few days and talked about the benefits he could bring to the cabinet room or the State Department as longer term Trump staffers had torched the 2012 nominee for being disloyal during the primaries as Republicans devote for anybody but Trump. The loudest argument against Romney as Secretary of State has been made recently by top adviser Kellyanne Conway who you can see is not at the dinner but who says she believes grassroots Trump supporters will be in tizzy if he brings Romney into the fold in any sort of a meaningful capacity.

Now, since we couldn't hear anything of the substance being said at the dinner table tonight, the way we may be able to tell how the meeting went could be on Twitter. Some of the high profile visitors to Mr. Trump's properties during the transition including retired General David Petraeus and retired General James 'Mad Dog' Mattis have earned instant social media praise from the President-Elect. During the transition, Trump has not been saying much if anything about Mitt Romney and Romney has not said anything about the man who could soon become his boss when he becomes the leader of the free world since their initial meeting last week -- Megyn.

KELLY: Peter Doocy, thank you. John George is very fancy. It is true. Our next guest warns that a Secretary Romney would leave Mr. Trump's supporters feeling betrayed, suggesting in a Fox op-ed today on, quote, "President-elect Trump should get up every day and begin by looking at his own campaign promises. He owes his presidency to the people who believed in him. Not to the courtiers and schmoozers who had contempt for him as a candidate, but adore him now that he is going to be president."

Newt Gingrich is a former House Speaker and author of the book, "Treason." Mr. Speaker, good to see you tonight.


KELLY: So, you call this potential appointment of Mitt Romney as Secretary of State a huge mistake and even outrageous. To those who say all right, you know, Donald Trump knows what he's doing, this could be a counter balance to some of the more, you know, hardliners in the administration he's creating, how do you justify those comments?

GINGRICH: Well, I mean, first of all, President-elect Trump can pick anyone he wants. He's going to be president. If he picks Romney, I'll support him because he has the right to build a cabinet he wants to have. But as long as we're discussing the possibility, I think it's a disaster. I think first of all, Romney is not like the team of rivals around Abraham Lincoln. None of the team of rivals opposed Lincoln in the general election.

Romney fought against Trump every single step of the way and fought against him with really vicious language. I mean, if you look at the things that Romney said about Trump, you'd have to say to yourself, I don't care how good a schmoozer he is. Why would you believe him? I mean if he comes in now and says, you know, all of those mean vicious things I said about you, I didn't really mean it. Give me a break. Again, this is not the same --

KELLY: Let me just -- let me challenge that.


KELLY: Let me challenge that in a minute. Even Kellyanne Conway said some very vicious things about Donald Trump, you know, maybe very vicious is too stretch, too much of a stretch. But she attacked him because she was a Ted Cruz supporter.

GINGRICH: Of course.  

KELLY: You know, that kind of thing tends to happen, and then they're both Republicans, they come together after the election, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump, reportedly Donald Trump had a lot of respect for the way that Mitt Romney ran Bain Capital and Mitt Romney and Donald Trump had a mutual friend who tried to broker this alliance according to a very interesting report today in the "Washington Post." So, can't that happen?

GINGRICH: Sure. Look, I have no doubt for example that Speaker Paul Ryan very much favors Mitt Romney. Romney picked him to be the vice presidential candidate. They're very close personally. Reince Priebus who is a great National Committee Chairman is very, very close to Ryan and was National Committee Chairman during the period when Romney was the nominee. So, there are a lot of different things going on here. I'm only suggesting that when you have potentially a Rudy Giuliani, you have an Ambassador Bolton, you have a wide range of people you could reach out to, to decide that the person -- and if you go back and you play the tone, the hostility, the contempt of the Romney speeches -- and these were all speeches.  

KELLY: Yes. You're right.

GINGRICH: You know? It's pretty hard to imagine.  

KELLY: He went after Trump harder than anybody.  

GINGRICH: You have to say to yourself, why would Trump believe that Romney is going to be Trump's Secretary of State? I know he wants to be Secretary of State but my hunch is he'll turn out to be Romney's Secretary of State.  

KELLY: Hmm. So, we're going to see because this is their second meeting and we're told that their wives also met tonight. I want to ask you though because you had some -- you had a couple -- first about this critique you have for the President-elect and then I want to talk to you about the advice you had for him in his column. The first thing you said, his biggest misstep in the three weeks since he won was that post on Twitter about the widespread of voter fraud in this election.


KELLY: Why is that so bad where he asserted that he would have won the popular vote had it not been for allegedly a couple million illegal votes?  

GINGRICH: Well, first of all, there's absolutely no proof that there were a couple million illegal votes. Second, there's a new standard now, he's about to be the president of the United States, really the leader in many ways of the entire planet, the most powerful country in the world. And as a standard of calm accurate -- I'm for him tweeting. I think tweeting is very effective for him, I think it's a big part of who he is. But I really do think he needs an editor and on occasion somebody needs to say to him, oh, maybe not this one. And I just thought that that was -- it's not that one tweet but it's what it signals about the lack of self-discipline and the lack of focus that I think as president he has got to acquire. Because the world has to have a sense of reliability that when Donald Trump speaks that there's a certainty and an accuracy that they can count on every single day. Three hundred and sixty five days a year. And that's a big challenge.

KELLY: Right. The gravity of that office requires, you know --

GINGRICH: Right.  

KELLY: It comes with a lot of responsibility. Let me ask you this. So, you've been there. I mean, you were part -- you were the head of the Contract with America when the Republicans took over the House in 1994 and so you've seen a president come into office and govern and reach across the aisle and get things done and you were part of that. You talking about in this Fox News piece that reasonableness will be the death of Trumpism. Reasonableness. Explain what you mean by that.  

GINGRICH: Sure. Washington has a whole range of reasonable things. The culture of the Foreign Service is a disaster. But reasonable people know you can't really fix it. The civil service and the veterans administration is corrupt, it's filled with people who don't do their jobs, it's filled in some cases with people who literally have criminal records. But reasonable people know you can't really reform the civil service. You go down this list. We know the Congressional Budget Office is a joke. Its estimates are a total disaster. It was totally wrong about Obamacare. But reasonable people know you have to use it because it's the only thing we have even if it's totally wrong.

You go down this list of reasonables and every reasonable statement moves you to selling out and keeping the swamp full. It doesn't drain the swamp but keeps it full. When I became Speaker I sort of shocked the city. Because at my first speech at the Heritage Foundation on the Friday after the election, I said, you know, that I will cooperate but I will not compromise. I had been elected to do the things in the Contract with America, I've been elected to balance the budget, I have been elected to reform welfare and I cooperate to the get it done and I think Bill Clinton and I did a pretty good job.

But I wasn't going to compromise on our goals. Well, you know, Donald Trump has a contract with the American voter which he outlined I think brilliantly at Gettysburg. He has the vision of a new deal for African- Americans which he outlined in Charlotte. If he's going to get those things done, he's going to have to be unreasonable with the city which is a swamp because the swamp doesn't want to be drained.

I mean, nobody in Washington is running around saying, oh please come in here and change everything. They're saying, how do we slow him down? You know, the Pentagon, the term for the political appointees is, the summer help. How do we outlast? The summer help wants to do something. Well, they'll be gone soon. And that is kind of slow walking is true across the whole city.

KELLY: Speaker Gingrich, great to see you. Thanks for being with us.

GINGRICH: Good to be with you. Thank you.  

KELLY: Well, a striking display of red, white and blue from military veterans and their families as the national debate breaks out over flag burning. And in one particular instance, the removal of a flag from a college campus because it was upsetting some of the cupcakes. Reaction on that in moments from David Wohl and Julie Roginsky.

Plus, big news when it comes to President-elect Trump's Cabinet and what's being described as a lightning strike effort to repeal Obamacare.  

And then breaking news on the Ohio State University attack as investigators turn up new leads on a possible terror link. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened so fast and I turned to go back in the building, all of the sudden this bang on these cars is there, and I get flipped in the air. And you know, it all happened so fast.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, we're watching the President-elect, his soon to be chief-of-staff and Governor Mitt Romney as they hold a dinner meeting in Manhattan. This is the second meeting between Mr. Romney and the President-Elect. We'll see if they say anything when they leave. Are they striking a deal? Are we looking at the next secretary of state here?
We'll bring you the news as it happens in moments.  

Meantime, Mr. Trump started his day with a controversial tweet recommending criminal punishment for flag burners, writing, quote, "Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag, if they do, there must be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail." With his signature exclamation mark. The tweet comes after a series of incidents at college campuses across this country where the flags have been torn down, stomped on or burned in the days following the presidential election.

More than 1,000 veterans and their families marched to this Massachusetts, liberal arts college in protest after the school at first decided to lower its main flag to half-staff following the President-elect victory. And then removed it all together because of the distress, the distress that the flag was causing on campus.

Trace Gallagher has more from our West Coast newsroom.  

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, when President-elect Trump suggested flag burners lose their freedom or citizenship, he never mentioned Hampshire College by name but the private liberal arts school in Western Mass. is clearly the focus of the latest flag debate. It was the day after the election when Hampshire lowered the school's main flag to half-staff in reaction to the, quote, "toxic tone of the election." Two days later the flag was burned, an incident that remains under investigation. The flag was then replaced until the college President Jonathan Lash ordered that it be taken down all together, but not as a political statement, he says. Watch.


JONATHAN LASH, PRESIDENT OF HAMPSHIRE COLLEGE: The symbol was raising the temperature of the controversy, that disagreement in getting us away from the underlying values that we wanted to discuss.


GALLAGHER: It did promote discussion and it prompted a protest by hundreds of military veterans in what they called a show of solidarity and respect for the flag. It was also a show of support for people's rights with one military vet telling a local Boston TV station, quote, "They took down the flag, they have a right to do that. I'm here to defend the right to do that. But I want them to understand how bad it hurts me." Hampshire College isn't alone in the flag battle.

The day after the election student protesters at American University in D.C. burned several American flags with one student shouting that this is a representation of America and that we are going down in flames. At Brown University, hundreds of flags set up as part of a Veterans Day ceremony were not burned, instead they were ripped up and tossed away. The student who posted the video you just saw called it a very sad day -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Joining me now with more, David Wohl, attorney and Donald Trump supporter and Julie Roginsky, Democratic strategist and Fox News contributor. Great to see you both.



KELLY: So, we'll get to the legality of President-elect Trump's proposal in a minute. But let me just start with you Julie about the nonsense that we're seeing now. That the flag, that flag is now too disruptive and traumatic for these cupcakes to function on the college campuses. This is the state -- honestly this is what made me write this book "Settle for More." Because I'd had it up to hear with the cupcake nation. They can't function in the face of the flag now? The flag has to go to accommodate the few who it happens to distress. Really?

ROGINSKY: Well, I read your book over the weekend and it was great to get that plug in.

KELLY: Thank you.  

ROGINSKY: But secondly, I agree with you. I mean, look, if you're distressed over the American flag or really distressed over anything, including the burning of the American flag which is legal.


ROGINSKY: You need to grow up and that goes for both sides. If the sight of the American flag flying at top of college campus, hurts your feelings so much that you can't focus on your studies, then maybe you should think about doing something else rather than going to college.

KELLY: You should become agoraphobic.

ROGINSKY: Well, yes, you should because --

KELLY: Never leave your house.

ROGINSKY: Of course.

KELLY: Because there are flags everywhere.  

ROGINSKY: Not only that but you probably see things on a daily basis that upset you. If you can't handle it, you probably should stay home and American flag is not something that --  

KELLY: You should function in the face of adversity.

ROGINSKY: Correct. Exactly.

KELLY: Let's put aside the notion that the flag is adversity. Okay? Let's accept this college professor's dean's statement that is somehow a traumatic event for some students to see it. You have to function in the face of the people. This is one of the things you supposed to learn on college campuses. Resettle for more. It lays it all out.

David, let me ask you though. To Julie's other point, there's nothing wrong with the veterans coming out and saying, you don't like the flag, here's a thousand of them. Take this.

WOHL: Yes.

KELLY: And you know what it stood for in my day? They're trying to tell this, you know, students -- for sacrifice, by people like us who actually went out there to fight for your freedom and we see something very different when we see that flag. They're not saying they can't function on the face of it, they're saying, to us it means something else.  

WOHL: Well, Trump said no one should be able to burn the flag and he's absolutely right. You know, Megyn, the Supreme Court in 1989 decided that burning the flag was somehow protected free speech. You burn anything else you go to jail. The flag, it's fine. And you know Americans and the Americans that put Mr. Trump in office are just so fed up with this garbage climate where it's cool to disparage America, it's cool to burn flags, it's cool to hate cops and hate the military.

KELLY: Yes. But there's the First Amendment --

WOHL: And guess what --

KELLY: The problem for your argument is that little thing called the First Amendment and it's very clear --  

WOHL: Well now, Megyn, here's the thing. There's going to be a newly constituted Supreme Court soon as we know and it's going to be more conservative and my guest is this whole issue will be revisited and if it is, look out. Because I suspect it will be reversed.  

KELLY: Well, you think so? This is from Justice Kennedy's opinion in Texas v. Johnson, 1989, the Supreme Court case that made very clear you can burn the American flag. Here's one line that sums it up. “It's poignant but fundamental that the flag protects those who hold it in contempt.” Julie?

ROGINSKY: Well, first and foremost if you want to elect people, or put people in the Supreme Court in a mold of Antonin Scalia, which is what President-elect Trump wants to do. Guess who supported the right to burn the American flag? Justice Scalia was one of the people in Texas v. Johnson that actually supported the right to burn the flag. Secondly and more importantly, Donald Trump wants to jail people who burn the flag or wants to deprive them of citizenship? That is --  


She was wrong. She was absolutely wrong. That is the last refuge of a tin pot dictator --  

KELLY: It's not happening.  

WOHL: Not at all. Hey, Megyn, you know what? Here's the thing --

KELLY: Not having the First Amendment, we happen to love it a lot. It's the reason it's number one. It's kind of important.  

WOHL: Prosecutors could deal with this on a different level Megyn because this is happening at schools, like buildings could catch fire, you could have reckless endangerment charges that tempted arson and vandalism charges and they're simply not doing that.  

KELLY: That is all fine. That is all fine. But that wouldn't be specific to the flag. It wouldn't be specific to the flag. I got to go. Great to see you both.

ROGINSKY: Good to see you.

KELLY: So my next guest thinks that it's disturbing to see the US flag desecrated but he disagrees with the President-Elect's suggestion.

Joining me now, Jonathan Turley, professor at the George Washington University Law School. Professor, good to see you.


KELLY: I mean, none of us like to see the flag burned. I mean, apparently some people do. But I think most reasonable people don't like to see that. But yet banning it says something else about us that would be for more disturbing.  

TURLEY: Well, it's a curious notion isn't it? The flag represents our collective rights and you hardly honor it by abridging those rights which is what is being suggested. The First Amendment has never been amended. It has never been reduced. It's served us so well since the founding of this republic. And the suggestion that we should now amend the First Amendment because of what on average is about five to seven flag burnings a year I think is rather reckless. I mean, the question is, do you want the government in the business of criminalizing speech.

Those people that want to allow Congress to do it have got to think about the implications of that. You know, many of the Trump supporters were very concerned about a Clinton administration. You shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the Democrats. You shouldn't, because you have power, just hand more power to this government like this is the last president you're ever going to see.

KELLY: Well, didn't we just get through an election where Donald Trump was placed in office in part because he said we need to toughen up as a society, we've become too politically correct, you should be allowed to offend. That's part of being an American. I mean, this is part of that. It didn't just apply to liberals or conservatives. It applies to everybody.  

TURLEY: Right. And you know you saw the First Amendment in your clips. Hundreds of people came out with flags explaining to these students what they really mean.  What that veteran said was very moving.  When he said they have a right to throw down the flag and I have a right to tell them why that's wrong and why that hurts.  That's free speech.  

KELLY:  Right.

TURLEY:  That is much more powerful than dragging people away and arresting them for burning a flag.   

KELLY:  Professor, great to see you.   

TURLEY:  Thanks, Megyn.   

KELLY:  Well, we also have a live report moments from Ohio where ISIS is now claiming responsibility for that car and knife attack at Ohio State University that injured 11 people.   

Plus, new details tonight on what is described as the Republicans lightning strike plan to deal with ObamaCare in the very first days of the Trump administration.  What does Trump's latest appointment tell us about where he's going?  Trump transition team member, Anthony Scaramucci and former assistant to President Bill Clinton Matt Bennett are next.  


KELLY:  Breaking tonight, the dinner meeting is wrapping up.  We're told Donald Trump and Mitt Romney are on dessert.  We're told the dessert is chocolate cake.  We're told they ate some weird soup with frog legs in it and that while Reince Priebus and Donald Trump had prime sirloin, Mitt Romney ate lamb chops.  You can make of that what you will.  We will keep you updated on the breaking news and possibly the tea or coffee that follows moments from now.  Stay tuned.  


PRES. BARACK OBAMA, D-UNITED STATES:  My understanding is the House of Representatives has scheduled yet another vote today to take health care away from the folks sitting around this table.  I don't know whether it's the 55th or the 60th time that they are taking this vote.  But I've asked this question before.  Why is it that this would be at the top of their agenda?  


KELLY:  Maybe because there was no Republican buy-in when ObamaCare was pushed through.  That was President Obama almost two years ago mocking Republicans for trying to repeal the law that upended health care for millions of Americans but also granted it to many others.  But now it looks like the GOP may get the last word here.  Reports surfaced today that the GOP is working on what's described as a lightning strike bill that basically sets an expiration date for ObamaCare.  

We also learn that effort will likely be spearheaded by Congressman Tom Price, the President-Elect pick to head up health and human services.  And a lawmaker who tried for years to dismantle ObamaCare and got very specific about how to do it.  So how is this going to work?  

In a moment, we will speak with Trump transition team member Anthony Scaramucci and former President Bill Clinton's assistant Matt Bennett.  

But first to Trace Gallagher who today talked with some of the top experts in the country on what will likely in store for here, Trace?  

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Megyn, Congressman Price, an orthopedic surgeon by trade says his major complaint about Obamacare is that it puts the government in the middle of the doctor-patient relationship.  Price introduced his own legislation to repeal and replace the affordable care act in each of the past three sessions of congress and his plan now serves as the basis for the health care proposal unveiled by House Speaker Paul Ryan.  

The main points of Price's plan are to offer six tax credits so people can buy their own insurance on the private market to expand health savings accounts allowing people to use pretax dollars to pay for health care and to give the states federal money to help cover people with existing conditions who cannot afford private health insurance.  We just spoke to a conservative health policy adviser who thinks Tom Price is on the right track.  Watch.  


AVIK ROY, FOUNDATION FOR RESEARCH ON EQUAL OPPORTUNITY:  What's important is that Tom Price is a guy who has really worked hard to build a case for replacing Obamacare with better reforms, he has been constructive in that debate.  I think he'll be constructive in the role of HHS secretary should he be confirmed.  


GALLAGHER:  And though incoming Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer thinks Price's nomination process could be a bit rocky.  Here he is.  


CHUCK SCHUMER, INCOMING SENATE MINORITY LEADER:  When it comes to issues like Medicare, the affordable care act and Planned Parenthood, Congressman Price and the average American couldn't be further apart.  


GALLAGHER:  Schumer adds that Republicans will rue the day they tried to abolish Obamacare.  But many Republicans believe acting on Obamacare within in the first 100 days with a so called lightning strike bill would be a big ticket victory.  Although House Majority Kevin McCarthy cautioned that it might be best to start by repealing the affordable care act which then gives congress time to replace it, Megyn.  

KELLY:  Trace, thank you.  Joining me now with more, Anthony Scaramucci and Matt Bennett, great to see you both, so Matt, let me start with you as the Democrat on this.  So the idea is that preexisting condition coverage will continue, but the thing that funded that, that made that possible under Obamacare was the mandate that required everybody buy in, including the young healthy people which they kind of weren't doing which led to the problem.  So this plan that Congressman Price has suggested, has presented says well we'll still cover those preexisting conditions but you're going to get a tax credit.  And wait stand by.  Here's Mitt Romney.  


MITT ROMNEY, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  .enlightening, interesting and engaging.  I enjoyed it very, very much.  I was also very impressed by the remarks he made on his victory night.  By the way, it's not easy to win.  I know that myself.  He did something that I've tried to do and was unsuccessful in accomplishing.  He won the general election.  
And he continues with a message that brings people together and his vision is something which obviously connected with the American people in a very powerful way.  The last few weeks he is been carrying out a transition effort and I have to tell you, I've been impressed by what I've seen in the transition effort.  

The people he is selected as members of his cabinet are solid, effective capable people.  Some of them I know very well.  Nikki Hailey and I go way back.  She is an outspoken strong powerful leader.  Tom Price is someone who actually came to my office before he ran for senate and we spent time talking about health care, expert and solid thinker in that arena and in others.  Jeff Sessions is someone who I knew through my campaigns, helped me very early on.  He has a distinguished record in the senate.  And of course many others, Betsy (inaudible) a long list of people, very impressive individuals.  

I often to think that America's best days are ahead of us, I think you're going to see America continuing to lead the world in this century.  And what I've seen through these discussions I've had with President-Elect Trump, as well as what we've seen in his speech on the night of his victory, as well as the people he is selected as part of his transition. All of those things combined give me increasing hope that President-Elect Trump is the very man who can lead us to that better future.  Thank you.  



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Governor, who paid for dinner?  


KELLY:  What a difference.  What a difference a year makes.  In March of, well, 2016, Mitt Romney just savaged Donald Trump right before that third Fox News debate that we held at the Detroit Theater in Michigan, Romney's original home state.  And tonight you heard a very different tone as so often happens in politics.  

I want to bring back in our guests here and just switch the topic up, guys, because I want to talk about Obamacare, but Mitt Romney sounds very different tonight than we've heard him sound before.  And the question is whether that is a prelude to a cabinet appointment in your view for him.  

MATT BENNET, FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON ASSISTANT:  Yeah it is a good question.  Look, Mitt Romney is a class act.  He has been comporting himself that way since the election and it's no surprise that he is making himself available to the President-Elect.  Despite the fact that as you point out he made very, very clear what he thinks of Donald Trump, what he thought of him as a candidate and what he thought of him as a potential president.  But he is a guy that believes that if he can help the country by serving Secretary of State, he should do that and I commend him for it. I can tell you this.  A lot of Democrats are rooting for him to get that job because he is a stable and known quantity and I think that would be a good face for us to the world.  

KELLY:  Anthony, so the argument is that Mitt Romney could go in there and be, sort of the good cop as opposed to the bad cop elements already chosen by team Trump, meaning the guys, you know are rough and tumble, ready to shake up feathers and Romney is a little bit more, as Matt points out stable, but you heard Newt Gingrich's objection to him, Rudy Giuliani and Kellyanne Conway.  Does he have a chance in your view?  

ANTONY SCARAMUCCI, TRUMP'S TRANSITION TEAM MEMBER:  Well he certainly has a chance, because he wouldn't be at the dinner if he didn't, Megyn, but what I love about Governor Romney, he is an unbelievable organized guy.  And so he would do a great job inside the State Department which needs a lot of work.  We've misplaced $6 billion, now, having said that, there are other candidates that are being looked at.  And what I have to respect about the President-Elect, he is really taking the process very, very seriously where he is looking at it the way a CEO would and he is bringing on five or six really well-qualified candidates.  What you saw there, though, I just would say that if we were back in the day with Instagram and Twitter and we saw what William Seward said about Abraham Lincoln, it was probably even more difficult than the words that Governor Romney mentioned back in March.  So, I am glad these guys are coming together.  They're both great Americans and we need to unite as a party but also as a country.  

All right, guys, we will hold our Obamacare repeal and replace discussion for another night.  There's a lot going on there too.  We'll see what Tom Price does, if he gets confirmed as HHS secretary.  Great to see you both thank you.  

BENNET:  Thank you.  

SCARAMUCCI:  Megyn, a million thanks.  

KELLY:  Well also tonight, breaking news on the attack at Ohio state university next.  Don't go away.  


KELLY:  Breaking tonight, new developments in the wake of yesterday's car and knife attack at Ohio State University by suspect Abdul Razak Ali Artan. Eleven people were injured in that campus attack and now ISIS has claimed responsibility.  Fox News Mike Tobin has the latest details from Columbus, Ohio, Mike?  

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hi Megyn, our time was a consumer of ISIS propaganda.  This is according to an investigator speaking with Fox News.  Also there are growing indications that he had self-radicalized. He got online, he ranted about the treatment of Muslims.  He mentioned things like a boiling point.  Has threaten sleeper cells, he had praised Anwar al-Awlaki as a hero.  That is U.S. born Al-Qaeda cleric, who became an icon of Jihad want to be, online after he was killed by U.S. drone strike some five years ago.  

Now the attack came less than a month after the Department of Homeland Security warned of a growing threat from home grown attacks on soft targets in public gatherings, propaganda encourage simple weapons, like knives, and cars.  What stands in contrast to the warning is Artan himself.  He was concerned about the image of Muslims, particularly here on campus.  He was a good student.  He had just transferred to a big ten University. Neighbors said he was a good kid from a big family.  They're flabbergasted by what happened here.  The Somali community just held the press conference tonight, the locals Somali community trying to put as much distance between themselves as they could and Artan, Megyn?  

KELLY:  Mike, thank you.  Well shortly after the OSU attack, a former vice presidential nominee Senator Tim Kaine was quick to condemn guns, initially tweeting quote, "Deeply saddened by the senseless act gun violence at Ohio State this morning, praying for the injured and the entire buckeye community."  He later retracted that statement.  Then an internet talk show host seemed to make it a race thing, tweeting quote, "So white police officer Alan Harujko, who shot and killed the black Somali stabbing suspect in Ohio is being paraded as a hero.  That is interesting.  And an OSU staffer allegedly posted on Facebook asking others to find compassion for the suspect.  

Dana Loesch is the host of Dana and the Blaze TV, and Nomiki Konst, host of the Filter on series XM Progress, great to see you both.  



KELLY:  Let me start with you on Tim Kaine, you know in his defense, we have seen so many of these mass, you know, violence incidents on college campuses, and elsewhere, they have involve guns and involve many things, but, again to get out ahead and call it a senseless act of gun violence when it wasn't and to not more forcefully withdraw that and apologize for it and make clear that he was very wrong.  

KONST:  Senator Kaine should not have rushed to judgment.  Should have waited for the facts to come in, as should have the police that were there, who ended up shooting, which we now know is somebody who aligned themselves with ISIS.  With that all being said, if there were guns at the scene it would have been much more horrific.  And you can see that.  

KELLY:  Did you say the police needed to exercise more self-control?  

KONST:  Well, think about this, ok, so, you know the FBI trains in situations like this.  They want to make sure that the person, the attacker is alive so they can question him.  Especially if there is some sort of terrorist affiliation, but it is not that (inaudible).  

KELLY:  Not when he is sticking a knife into 11 people.  Then you just want him dead, right?  

KONST:  There's a lot of training behind this, you find a way to injury them, harm them, knock them down so that you can still keep him alive to question them.  And they do that in the military, they do that in the CIA.  

KELLY:  That is not how the training goes.  

KONST:  That is how it is.  

LOESCH:  Yeah that is not how the training goes.  

KELLY:  No.  

LOESCH:  No, Nomiki, I haven't seen her at any of the training seminars that I have gone through or any of the scenarios I've gone.  And also I have to say something as well.  This insane idea that well if this guy had a gun it would have been much worse.  Actually, statistically that is not even true, because I would spend the rest of your show which I am not going to, going through all of the mass shooting incidence that have been stopped by a lawful gun owner, in fact I am going to tweet them out immediately after, no I am going to do realist Nomiki, let me talk.  


KELLY:  You're not going to monologue over me, Dana.  

LOESCH:  You have no idea what you're talking about, Nomiki.  And the officer, Megyn is a hero.  He absolutely is a hero, because this guy would have gone through a ton of more people had a gun, a good guy with a gun not shown up and acted.  And imagine if.  


KONST:  A lot of people could have done it.  


LOESCH:  (Inaudible) by a lawful gun owner, if they have been there as well.  We got to stop the gun free zones and I'm glad to see Indiana State Legislature taking a step towards this, by considering campus carry.  

KONST:  Can I respond real quickly.  

KELLY:  Go ahead, Nomiki.  

KONST:  Ok. So you look at - this country like Japan where there's .6 gun owners for a hundred people and here in America we have 8.8 -- let me finish.  

LOESCH:  We have the highest suicide rate in the world.  


KONST:  Completely different scenario.  Where we have 88.8, they have had three mass shootings if the last 50 years.  We have one every single day.    


LOESCH:  And we have more (Inaudible).  

KONST:  .let me finish.  

KELLY:  Hold on.  I'm going to give you the last word, Dana.  

KONST:  Ok.  The bottom line is, you know we have -- in areas of this country where there are stronger gun laws we have fewer mass shootings. That is just a fact the FBI stated.  

KELLY:  Ok.  No it's not.  

KONST:  Also the CIA trains official.

KELLY:  But even when you have the gun laws, you've got the guy with the knife and the car.  

KONST:  (Inaudible) don't we want to know more?  

KELLY:  I know the questioned, here the question, question him while he was sticking the knife into people's throats, got it.  If it would have been me I would have been glad to cops showed up.  

LOESCH:  Amen to that.  I will list a mass shooting incidents prevented, but don't forget remember back in 2013 Obama commissioned a report from the CBC, 2.3 million instances of defense of guns annually which is far greatly out ways criminals usage.

KELLY:  All right, ladies, it's always a pleasure, very feisty.  

KONST:  There is going to be another one.  

LOESCH:  Thank you, Megyn.  


KELLY:  I mean we have to laugh, because it's either laugh or cry.  You know, I was just talking about this yesterday.  We see this all of the time now today's day and age.  And today this one appears to be terror despite the fact that many people don't want to admit that.  And then tomorrow could be something else.  So we pray that it's not the case, but that is sadly what we are watching.  

We're also tonight tracking a dangerous situation in Tennessee as the forecasters warn that strong winds could fan wildfires that have already been blamed for three deaths.  This is getting bad.  It's next.  


KELLY:  Breaking tonight, hurricane force winds have turned the picturesque mountain community of Gatlinburg's, Tennessee into a hell on earth tonight, as raging wild fires leave at least three people dead more than a dozen injured and forces thousands of homeowners and tourist to evacuate.  The flames are even reaching the doorsteps of Dolly apartment Dollywood, but it was spared any of the damage.  A curfew is in effect there tonight amid fears that winds could once again fan the flames.  We'll keep an eye on it for you.  

Meantime, we're live in Dallas, Texas tonight as "The Kelly File" goes on the road meeting some of our viewers and discussing my new memoir "Settle for More." this morning we visited Atlanta, Kansas and have the pleasure of getting to know some of our wonderful viewers who has lots of thoughts for us, including on their favorite "Kelly File" guests.  Watch.  


KELLY:  So we are here in Kansas City taking "The Kelly File" on the road. We want to get to the heartland and meet a lot of our viewers and actually sign and talk about my book "Settle for more."  You can see the mountain of "Settle for More" behind me and now I've got to sign 800 books or so before we go out and meet a bunch of nice folks.  So come over here and I'll show you how the process works.  

This is Vivian and this is Roger from Rainy Day Books which is the bomb here in Kansas.  Is it true that you waxed up this table?  


KELLY:  Just to make the books slide across even more easily.  Check this out.  So this is the process, I've been doing this for quite some time now, right?  


Not bad.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We enjoy "The Kelly File" a lot.  It's a great show.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I think Fox News "Fair and Balanced" slogan is something that you can trust and believe in.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I like Megyn Kelly for many reasons.  I really do idolize her.  She is a strong independent woman and I love her.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I watch "The Kelly File" like every night.  

KELLY:  I was talking to a lady in line who says I don't like it when she gets the people on there that are not conservative.  And I said, well that is the fun of it.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Our favorite guest on "The Kelly File" is Chris Stirewalt. He is so funny.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  My favorite guest is Charles Krauthammer, but he is a distant second to Megyn.  


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Or even Rudy because they get into little tussles.  

KELLY:  Now we get to go inside and actually shake some hands and see some people and have a little q and a and get to know each other which are the best part of this whole thing.  So come in and I'll show you the situation. Hi, I love you.  


KELLY:  Hi, hi.  Hi.  


KELLY:  Nice to see you.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We'll like to welcome to the stage from "The Kelly file" on Fox News, Megyn Kelly.  



KELLY:  Thank you.  "Settle for More" is really about overcoming adversity. And actually embracing it and understanding it's an opportunity to grow and get stronger.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Ladies and gentlemen, Megyn Kelly.  



KELLY:  Love you guys.  Thank you so much.  Thank you so much.  Bye.  Love you.  Thank you, ladies.  Thank you so much.  


KELLY:  We had a great time there, great time.  Thank you, Kansas.  And our "Settle for More" tour continues tomorrow right here in Texas.  We'll be at Fort Hood on Thursday Naples, Florida.  Friday at the Villages, Monday in D.C.  

I want to leave you with this Marry Katherine writes, "the book was incredibly captivating, funny and moving.  I feel so inspired and empowered to settle for more too." That means everything to me.  


KELLY:  So speaking of Stirewalt, there's a great story about Stirewalt and yours truly in a bar in "Settle for More" which you should go buy, right now.  By the way, who's your favorite guest?  @MegynKelly on Twitter and will see you tomorrow after we salute the heroes of Fort Hood.  Good night.  

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