Internal battle over whether Romney should join Trump team

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 25, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Julie Roginsky, Pete Hegseth, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

A lot of news on the Trump transition front. The president-elect has picked KT McFarland to be his deputy national security adviser and former FEC chairman Don McGahn as his White House counsel. We're going to have more on that later in the show, but first, a heated battle is apparently brewing within the Trump team about the Secretary of State position.

Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney is reportedly being considered for the job but some of the president-elect's closest supporters are expressing concerns about Romney pointing to his sharp criticism of Mr. Trump during the election. Trump senior adviser Kellyanne Conway weighing in on Twitter, "Kissinger & Schultz as Secs of State flew around the world less, counseled POTUS close to home more. And were loyal. Good checklist."

Others close to the president-elect have mixed reactions.


BEN CARSON, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He probably needs to say that more publically. I think a lot of the strife would dissipate at that point.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FOUNDER, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: What I love about Mr. Trump, the president-elect is that he has got a bridge open to everybody in the community. He sent a message to us at the executive transition level that we want A plus-plus players on the team and Governor Romney is an A plus-plus player.


GUILFOYLE: Communications are afoot, Dana. So, what do you make of sort of the mixed messages, obviously the press saying there is some internal conflict over this specifically very hard-core like Trump loyalist saying this isn't someone you should pick. Then you've got like the Rudy camp, the Mitt camp and then Kelly weighing in.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, one of the things that's different from previous administrations and transition teams is that this is not done behind-the-scenes. It's not like they're back stabbing. They're actually on the record saying this. So that's actually I guess if you -- that is just a different way of doing things, but it's not like they're hiding their true feelings.

And they're on the record like if you tweet something or if you go on Fox News and you say these things like you are trying to weigh in. And I think what I would imagine is that kind of argumentation amongst a group of advisers is encouraged from the top. If Donald Trump were upset that people were actually arguing about this in public, I think it would stop like that. So I imagine that he's probably okay with it.

PETE HEGSETH, GUEST CO-HOST: He may also want to see how people react to that. I mean there's clearly an understandable reflection from the folks that have been pro Trump for a long time to someone like Romney who trashed him for so long. Now he's got an opportunity. I also do think it speaks to the president-elect. This is a guy who made decisions when he had to about moving out Governor Christie and bringing in Pence to begin with.

He picked, you know, Flynn and Sessions, Pompeo quickly before many other presidents had. But on this one he's probably conflicted. He had a good meeting with Romney. Felt like he's a smart guy even after what he's done, but is loyal to Giuliani. Then he hears other names like Petraeus and the other general that's out there as well, Kelly. He's a thoughtful guy. He's probably saying, hey, let's see how this plays out. I've got a little bit of time.

JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, can I just float a really interesting theory which I don't know if I'll subscribe to but --

GUILFOYLE: But it's Friday.

ROGINSKY: It's Friday. I'm going to throw it out anyway.

GUILFOYLE: It's the holidays.

ROGINSKY: It is possible that he's leaving Romney out there to dangle and to be killed by a thousand cuts because Romney was incredibly unkind to him in his view during the election. And the reason he's doing this is to make Romney appear that he's groveling for a job that he never has any intention of actually giving Mitt Romney.

And he's having all this other people come out and talk about what a horrible, horrible human being Mitt Romney was to the president-elect and the president-elect knows that he's not going to choose Romney but he's having Romney jump through 20,000 hoops in the attempt to get the job.

And ultimately I suspect, though I would love to see Mitt Romney as Secretary of State because others people that are being considered like Rudy Giuliani I think are just not acceptable -- I don't think Mitt Romney is going to get this job. I hope I'm wrong. I hope --

GUILFOYLE: It's really the art of war lately.


ROGINSKY: Or some gossip lies, I'm not sure, or some high school gossip -- or some high school girl gossip lies, right.

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, it's an interesting theory, Julie, but is he really jumping through hoops? I don't see Romney as kind of demeaning himself. He went in. He took a meeting. He's not -- I don't think he's going to do this apology --

PERINO: Not a word.

SHILLUE: Yes, he hasn't said anything. And I don't think he should apologize (inaudible) apologize. He would probably want to explain himself like this is what I thought about Trump. This is honestly what I thought and this is why I'm willing to work with him now, but I don't think he has to apologize.

ROGINSKY: But he's going to have to, right. If he takes the job, the first question will be either to set a confirmation hearing or even from the press before hand, Governor Romney, why did you think that Donald Trump was completely unfit to be president of the United States and all the horrible names that you called him over the last 18 months of not a little less? Why now?

Why now governor do you think that you will work for this man that you think is wholly unqualified to be president? He's going to have to say something that's going to sound like an apology. And the question for Romney is, is he willing to do that? And what has changed? Why would he even go to Bedminister last weekend and shake the hand to try to interview with a man that he thinks is totally unqualified to be commander-in-chief? I don't know the answer to that.

GUILFOYLE: Because he wants to serve the country.

ROGINSKY: Well, I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, what's the answer to that question if he goes --

PERINO: I think the answer is kind of easy. I think that because Romney was himself at the beginning of this and so this is what I think. I think that going to Bedminster was partly because -- well, I didn't really know. I haven't talked to anybody on his team or to him obviously, but to me it looked like a moment of patriotic grace for being able to say, OK, obviously he won and in a fashion that I couldn't.

So, if I believe in public service and I think Governor Romney does, I think that he could come up with something that says, fine. He could get one press conference, answer all those questions in a confirmation hearing and have the Democrats say, read back all of his words to him and just say, you're right, I said that. And now say I'm ready to serve and in a way that there would be no daylight between Donald Trump and me.

ROGINSKY: Is that enough for an apology?


GUILFOYLE: He's even have a problem doing what you're saying. I mean he's not a --

PERINO: I could do it.

HEGSETH: And I think there's a lot of --


PERINO: No, I'm not saying I want to do it. I'm just saying if you --

GUILFOYLE: The Department of Interior wants all the parts.

PERINO: Yes, I know. But if you gave me that -- the communication challenge and -- because if I believed it, it's not hard to do a press conference like that if you actually believe what I just said.


PERINO: I don't know if that's all true, but if you do believe that, then it's not difficult.

HEGSETH: I think -- I think he could. He could make the kind of statement where he's a -- the patriotic grace that you're giving him I think is authentic. He could have that come across. But I also think Donald Trump is giving patriotic grace back to him. I think this is a guy who two and a half weeks into the process realizes the gravity, understands the gravity of where he is and I think is willing to put aside the fact that someone trashed him nine months ago when he was a candidate.

He wants to make America great again and be strong on the world stage and if he feels like Mitt Romney is the guy to do it, then I do think he's putting these things aside and willing to listen. And I think that speaks - -

ROGINSKY: I hope you're right. I truly do.

PERINO: Can I make one more point about it? I do think that Donald Trump is showing in this transition process a willingness to make that big tent of the Republican Party actually a real thing. And so, let's say you're Donald Trump and you're thinking OK, I know I've got this strong base and support. There were some Republicans who are uncomfortable with me. What can I do to solidify a bigger tent so that I have the most support going forward for this presidency? And bringing somebody like Romney -- even if he doesn't choose them, I think that actually having him come by was worth it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Romney has a lot to offer --

PERINO: And he's obviously given it some thought.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he has a lot to offer to the country too for sure. So why wouldn't you if you're really sincere and genuine and I believe that the president-elect is about unifying the country, about creating jobs and doing the things he said he's going to do. You want to have the best with you signed (ph) with you.

PERINO: And regardless, it has neutralized Romney from criticizing him in the future.

GUILFOYLE: It's the right thing to do on all levels but that one needs to be seen if in fact he's going to give him a position.

SHILLUE: You know what's interesting, the rules are different because we wouldn't be saying this about Rubio or Cruz because they were running against him, and the rules are different. And I think they're holding Romney to a different standard because he was calling him a fraud and a phony but wasn't running against him. We seem to accept if you're running against someone, you can hit them hard as Trump likes to say, and so --

PERINO: And once Trump got the nomination, Romney didn''t say another word as far as I remember.

HEGSETH: He also didn't lift a hand.

SHILLUE: I think he did.

PERINO: Oh, that's okay.

SHILLUE: I think he hit him hard during this --.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think afterwards.

SHILLUE: Not since the nomination.

PERINO: I think it may be supported of a McMullen in Utah but other than that, you didn't see him on TV. He wasn't out there trying to actively --

SHILLUE: There were tweets. There were some -- he hit him with some nasty tone.

GUILFOYLE: That's really tough.

HEGSETH: It was because of the vulnerable moments, right. So, videotape comes out, things like that.


HEGSETH: He said things to kind of pile on in those process.

PERINO: He wasn't the only one.

HEGSETH: Well, of course.

PERINO: There were strong supporters --

ROGINSKY: But if he do end up going with Romney, then I think that sends an incredibly strong message exactly about what you said, Dana, that he wants to expand the tent. I hope he has it in him. It's not the Donald Trump but I think we've seen the gracious Donald Trump that I have yet to see, but I truly hope I'm right.

PERINO: And the other thing is, you saw this weekend that -- it's not the weekend yet -- it's start of the weekend yesterday -- but the communication to the Japanese which is to say, yes, OK. Well, the campaign was the campaign and the new NSA director, Michael Flynn is like, oh, that was just campaign talk. We're actually -- we're good, Japan. And Japan is breathing a sigh of relief and so everything is OK.

So, a moment of stability with our allies, if that means Mitt Romney helps in that regard and they can help him, great. I don't think that means that Rudy wouldn't or that somebody else that he chose wouldn't necessarily do that but it is interesting how quickly they could go from very strong campaign rhetoric to like we're good.

GUILFOYLE: Well, like you said, once you have the job you see what the situation is. He's been getting the briefings and he met with President Obama, and now it's time to govern and to unify.

HEGSETH: Well, we've also read about some concerns though that Mitt Romney's perspectives on some issues on foreign policy are different than the president-elect.

GUILFOYLE: Like Russia.

HEGSETH: Yes, so, a guy with that stature,, with that known entity as your Secretary of State, you can get in front of the president a little bit. We have seen that in other instances in history where Secretary of States are a little bit rogue or have a little bit of a different position --


HEGSETH: -- and you're probably -- exactly.

PERINO: She had a different position on Syria but you don't know until she writes her book after she left and so, you can have a different position but still carry through on the president's policy.



GUILFOYLE: I want to get in the talk of --

PERINO: But if you disagree with it so much then you have to resign.

GUILFOYLE: About Rudy Giuliani because, you know, he was like right away the front runner for it. Obviously Trump loyalists are very strong on him. We saw Newt Gingrich's comments as well. Rudy's got an excellent background, a lot about foreign policy as well in terms of his experiences. So, what do you think about that choice?

PERINO: I think that Donald Trump would be extremely comfortable with him.


PERINO: But that might not necessarily be what Donald Trump is looking for. Maybe he does want to look for some challenges, not that Rudy wouldn't necessarily provide policy challenges and I think that he would be tireless in his efforts. I think that the signal that they are getting from the Hill is that the confirmation process wouldn't necessarily be as easy as they'd like.

GUILFOYLE: And I think if the president-elect had his choice then he could make it happen. He would want to put Rudy in because he has been a tremendous --

PERINO: And I don't think Donald Trump is afraid of a fight with the Congress for some of these nominees. He's going to have to fight for some like -- Sessions is probably one, although I think Sessions will probably be smoother than we think because he has a lot of good colleagues up there on the Hill from both sides of the aisle including Chuck Schumer. But he's going to have to have -- he's been in several fights with the Democrats for example his Supreme Court nomination. So, how many fights do you -- basically you pick your battles, right. "The Art of War," we're going back to that.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. So what do you think about Giuliani.

HEGSETH: Giuliani I think would be a strong choice. You may face some resistance in the Congress but he's also going to have a lot of support as well. Potentially some Democrat supports him, from moderate Democrats because they would acknowledge that elections have consequences and if this is who Trump wants as his secretary of state, it's time to abide by that. So, I think he'd be a strong choice.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I would sleep well at night I'll tell you that much. I've known him very well for many years. All right, coming up, the latest developments on president-elect Trump's new appointments to his administration when "The Five" returns. Stay with us.


HEGSETH: Welcome back. President-elect Donald Trump's transition team announcing two new staff appointments today. KT McFarland you've seen right here on this channel as a contributor to Fox News channel, has been chosen as Mr. Trump's deputy national security adviser and Donald McGahn, general counsel for Trump's campaign has been tapped for White House counsel. Mr. Trump's incoming national security adviser, retired lieutenant general Mike Flynn reacted to KT's news on twitter saying, and I quote, "So proud and honored to have KT McFarland as part of our national security team. She will help us make America great again."

Meanwhile, president-elect Trump plans to meet with eight people on Monday including Milwaukee County sheriff David Clarke and Trump is reportedly expected to select billionaire investor Wilbur Ross as his commerce secretary. So, Kimberly, I'm going to go you. A lot of things happening -- news coming out. They're not going to add anymore cabinet picks until Monday it sounds like, but what do you make of the pick of KT McFarland?

GUILFOYLE: I love it. I mean, I think she's fantastic. I always pause, listen, make sure to turn up the volume when she's speaking. She's incredibly knowledgeable. She has an amazing family that has served this country faithfully including her daughters in the Navy. Really bright and really gets it about national security.

I feel very comfortable with her in that position. She served under President Ronald Reagan so she has been able to enjoy, you know, wide support and praise from all those that know her. So I think this is a very strong pick. It's one I would have made.

HEGSETH: Indeed. And when I look at it in combination with Michael Flynn, almost looks like the realist are back. The Reagan realists are back. She was part of the Weinberg Doctrine which was a corner stone of Reagan's approach, which is a little bit less interventionist than some others. The White House counsel pick -- it's a name of someone who's experienced in Republican politics for a long time but being the White House counsel for Donald Trump, you've been in the White House in that position, what will that mean?

PERINO: Well, so Donald McGahn, he was a campaign finance attorney at Jones Day, one of the prominent law firms in America. So if you -- if he has that experience, one, that's like a huge check mark of like, you need that kind of a person --

GUILFOYLE: He's been vetted.

PERINO: And then, because he's been a campaign lawyer and a transition lawyer, so he probably won't be surprised by too many things. But even the other day when Donald Trump was at the national -- I'm sorry. The "New York Times" interview and they were asking him about possible conflicts of interest, you could see him saying, you know, there's not a lot of clarity here on some of the things and so he will have to rely on Don McGahn so I think that's a really good pick for him.

If I could say one thing about KT McFarland -- she and I had an exchange this morning -- I think one of the things people don't realize necessarily at the National Security Counsel one of your responsibilities is you -- that counsel coordinates amongst all the national security agencies. So you have a lot of different constituencies and as you know, Pete, DOD, State Department, CIA, DNI, --

HEGSETH: Well, they don't always -- don't they?

PERINO: They don't always agree. And so what you have to do is you have to take everybody's input, go to the president with the decision-making -- with the decision, ask him for it, go back, and make sure everybody is OK. And I just feel like KT McFarland is a really good person to help with that. She's a clear communicator and somebody who I think is a diplomat at heart so, that's also a good choice.

HEGSETH: Julie, I mean, his national security team is forming. From your perspective, from the outside looking in, what do you make of it?

ROGINSKY: Right. Well, first of all, I love KT. I second everything that both of you said about her. The nice thing about KT is that she's temperamentally, I think, suited to a job like this. Michael Flynn, there are some questions about his temperament. There area some questions about how he's able to do exactly what Dana said, which is work across all sorts of different national security interests and strata to have a cohesive message. KT I feel might balance that out.


ROGINSKY: Because she is not just somebody who's been around Washington a long time, so has Michael Flynn. But if she's somebody who's I think is very temperamentally fit for this kind of role, and I hope that she has some influence on her boss, Michael Flynn, to be able do that. KT I think is also realist in conversations I've had with her about foreign policy.

She's a realist about Russia, which I consider to be a huge strategic threat. Michael Flynn I think has backed off on that because of his business interests with Russia today and other interests that he's had with Russia. So I'm hopeful that she'll inject some of that realism that I know she has about -- that part of the world into the national security conversation.

HEGSETH: I've also (inaudible) - she's got so much experience but is willing to look at the world through clear eyes and refresh (ph) and adjust accordingly, which not everyone is able and willing to do, which I think is such a key attribute.

GUILFOYLE: She's also traveled extensively as well so I it's nothing to just like theorizing about. She's been overseas. She's done the hard work. She's met with the leaders. She provided a lot of, you know, good communication as a liaison and I think she's the best choice for the job. And what I love about this pick is she was chosen because of her qualifications and extreme competency not because of her gender and that's the point.

HEGSETH: Yes. Absolutely. Tom, you know, just a couple of days ago we were reading the press, this is disarray. Does this look like disarray to you all these choices?

SHILLUE: Well, it's disarray on my show. KT McFarland --


GUILFOYLE: Let's make it about you, Tom, I agree.

SHILLUE: Absolutely. You know when I heard the news, KT is the most respectable person to ever consent to appear on my show.

ROGINSKY: I take huge exception to that because I've consented many times to get on your show.

GUILFOYLE: I was never asked.

SHILLUE: She's very high level. And so she loves coming on the show. And so when I saw the appointment, I opened my phone and I opened up Outlook, cancelled. She was supposed to be on the (inaudible) on Monday.

ROGINSKY: How selfish. She couldn't wait until Tuesday to announce this? That's so --

SHILLUE: I mean, really, the rules should wait for red eye.


SHILLUE: That is the way it is. But she's great. And to say she -- from the very beginning -- I mean she's been on the show all year and she took Trump seriously from the outset. And when other panelists were laughing, she said, don't laugh about Donald Trump because he's coming.

GUILFOYLE: You're Right.

SHILLUE: And so she took them seriously.

HEGSETH: I remember having conversations with her about that in the green room very early on. She was very thoughtful in saying, hey, listen to what he's saying and to what people are frustrated about and the policies that have been pursued in the past. David Clarke coming in on Monday as well. A lot of Fox News--

PERINO: For an interview?

HEGSETH: -- making their way into the building. What do you make of it?

PERINO: I don't know for what he would be looking at. I mean there's a lot of law enforcement type of positions out there. There are some great jobs that you haven't even heard of yet that could be filled by position that don't necessarily need senate confirmation. So I think that they're obviously casting a wide net with people that they know.

HEGSETH: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: I think its (inaudible) bringing in Clarke. Clarke was a big supporter from the beginning and he got a lot of national attention. He's a straight shooter and a straight talker so, I'm curious. I'm sure given all the positions they have that there would be something quite good.

SHILLUE: Put him on the wall.

HEGSETH: Well, you never know.

SHILLUE: I want him on the wall.


GUILFOYLE: He's a strong law enforcement supporter.

ROGINSKY: He's casting a wide net of people he watches on this network I feel.

HEGSETH: Well, and the other name we didn't mention is Wilbur Ross --

GUILFOYLE: Tom, did he talk to you.

SHILLUE: No one's called me.

HEGSETH: Stand by your phone. Stand by your phone. Wilbur Ross for commerce secretary. Registered Democrat by the way. Restructured failing companies --

GUILFOYLE: I like this pick, yes.

HEGSETH: -- interesting pick as well. So, more news to come on that. But up next, president-elect Trump under fire for receiving only two classified intelligence briefings so far this election. His team responds to the critics when we return.


ROINSKY: About time somebody puts legs (ph) up on here. According to the "Washington Post," president-elect Donald Trump has received two classified intelligence briefings since winning the elections earlier this month. Mr. Trump's team is now disputing that report after some critics slammed the frequency of the briefings as not enough.

His team said the president-elect is focused on the transition and still has time to get up to speed on the international affairs and security threats facing the nation. Meantime, with headlines in the news today on ISIS, Russia and Iran, should president-elect Trump put more focus on these briefings? Dana, I will come to you since you worked on the White House.

PERINO: Well I think -- I don't know how many briefings he's actually had. I did notice that the Trump transition team pushed back saying this is coming from the intelligence community that has their noses bent out of shape because they didn't get jobs in the administration that they wanted.

I don't know if there is enough time to have actually assessed whether intel community people should have had jobs or not. What I would hope is that cooler heads could prevail for both sides because the president will need it trust of the intelligence community and vice versa. And I think that he -- well, obviously he's been getting briefings for a while, and that will step up because the weight of the job will require it.

ROGINSKY: You know what's interesting, Pete? His people pushed back and said well, he's talking to foreign leaders -- some sort of -- what do you think, and the reality is, you know, that's not the president's daily brief. That's not a briefing. That's him talking to foreign leaders and getting their assessment of what's going on.

HEGSETH: Yes. Sure, I mean, talking to foreign leaders are very important. Relationships are important. The first two countries he talked to, Israel and the U.K. a reflection of a new priority so --

ROGINSKY: He talked to (inaudible) before he talked to Theresa May, by the way.

HEGSETH: I mean it is what it is. But it's sort of silly to say, oh, Donald Trump is no taking national security seriously.


GUILFOYLE: It's also not rooted in any kind of fact.


GUILFOYLE: You also don't know if he's not getting his PDP (ph) briefing on his iPad like President Obama did. And also President Obama, as Catherine Herridge just pointed out, is the one in charge. He is POTUS until this transition. And also I'd like to let you know that Mike Pence is receiving these briefings daily and we would assume he's also discussing them with the president. And also the president-elect has promised to implement many of his policies within the first hundred days. Well, he can't do that if he doesn't have these people in place.

HEGSETH: That's right.

GUILFOYLE: So I think it's a mix. You have to take it all into account and once again the "Washington Post" just running away with it saying he's turning away is just like inaccurate.

ROGINSKY: But what he basically said -- just to be clear, their pushback was not in effect. Their pushback was essentially saying, well, these are disgruntled people saying this. They're not necessarily, Tom, saying -- the fact to this that he's only had two of these are inaccurate. In fact, they are not disputing that at all. So what do you think of that?

SHILLUE: Well, they are disputing -- even the headline of the article that said he was turning away these, you know -- Catherine Herridge said that a lot of other presidents-elect haven't started this until November or December. So that's a fact, right.


SHILLUE: So, it is -- the article essentially is just an opinion. It's a perspective. They are saying he's not starting these soon enough.

HEGSETH: But it's an opinion for the mainstream media yet again.

ROGINSKY: But it doesn't trouble any of you guys -- I'm sorry, but let me ask you --

SHILLUE: No, I do know --

ROGINSKY: Let me say this. It doesn't trouble you --

SHILLUE: I want to put this point.

ROGINSKY: OK, fine, but it doesn't trouble you whatsoever that he has no foreign policy experience at all that maybe unlike other presidents --

GUILFOYLE: How will you get President Obama doesn't sit in on his daily briefings and gets it on his iPad.


HEGSETH: President Obama had no foreign policy --

ROGINSKY: He was a senator.

HEGSETH: Zero foreign policy for him --

ROGINSKY: He was a senator, come on ...

HEGSETH: President Obama had no foreign policy training. Zero foreign policy training.


HEGSETH: Transitions are inherently dangerous times, right? On the battlefield...

GUILFOYLE: Instability, yes.

HEGSETH: ... when you transition the unit, when I was there, there was instability.

The problem is, the vulnerabilities of this moment are largely of Obama's making. Set that aside, he's weakened us. Donald Trump has to restore America's credibility in the world.

He does have limited experience in foreign affairs, per se. That's why his big priority is his transition team and building his team, which is what he has said in the articles as his primary pushback, is "Let me talk to Michael Flynn. Let me bring in K.T. McFarland. Let me get a secretary of defense." You think he's not talking to those people about national security issues and getting input from them? He builds his team based on his priorities.

GUILFOYLE: And Mattis.

HEGSETH: To think -- and Mattis. To think that he's not taking national security seriously is just foolish. And these are just articles being out there trying to discredit him, make him look small in what is otherwise an orderly process.

ROGINSKY: But Dana, you worked in the -- you worked in the White House. I assume the president has more than one thing to deal with at any given time. So just because he's working in transition, doesn't it mean that he should also make time for this and other things that are really vitally important to our country?

PERINO: It is true that President Obama has come under quite a lot of criticism from the intelligence community about the president's daily brief. The whole PDB issue is one where he preferred to read it sometimes rather than meet with people.

I do think that, if you're in the intelligence community, and I think the DNI, the director of national intelligence, now is in charge of finding the right person to do the daily briefing. And that's really important.

I remember the guy that was there for the second term of the Bush White House. He was so wonderful, totally quirky. A genius. He traveled with us on international trips, and then he would do the briefings in the morning. And he would be exactly what the president needs in terms of his communication style.

So I'm imagining that at -- in the intelligence community, they're trying to figure out who that person would be that would be the best person to brief Donald Trump for the style that he wants to be briefed in.

GUILFOYLE: Finding the right running shoe.

ROGINSKY: If you're complaining about Obama not wanting briefings, don't you think it's kind of comparable?

PERINO: It's November 26.

HEGSETH: They're also not thinking he doesn't want them. He's prioritizing certain things, and he's got access to them.

ROGINSKY: All right. Maybe it's just me who thinks he should prioritize foreign policy.

Anyway, directly ahead, just in time for the holiday season...

HEGSETH: There you go.

ROGINSKY: ... Dana takes us inside her fantastic new book about America's dog, Jasper, and a special guest will be joining us, too. Don't go away.


PERINO: All right. We've got a treat for you. When I wrote my first book, "And the Good News Is," I had to leave out a chapter that was very near and dear to my heart. It was the one about my love for dogs. There just wasn't enough roof. But my editor promised me that, if we took it out one day, there would be a whole book about dogs, and he kept to his word.

"Let Me Tell You About Jasper." Here he is. It's now at bookstores nationwide on Amazon and elsewhere. And here's a peek at it.


GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Dana, why must your friends, family and Twitter followers be kept abreast of everything your precious Jasper does?

PERINO: I know I'm a dog bore, but I embrace it. I love it. It gives me great job. I love all the pictures. And you know what? I have made Jasper America's dog.

He is! He is for everybody, and I share him with the world. Look at that face.

GRAPHIC: America's dog, Jasper

PERINO: And that's how it happened. My best friend became America's dog. I like to remind people of why I call him America's dog. It's not because I think he's the No. 1 dog in America, because everyone thinks their dog is the No. 1 dog. But it was because I wanted to share him with everybody, even Greg. Jasper loves Greg.

GUTFELD: There we go. Me and Jasper.

PERINO: Give him a little room so he can sit down.

Hello! Hi. Mr. Jasper!

My husband Peter and I picked him up in Maryland in June of 2012, and it was love at first sight. Immediately I wanted all of my friends at FOX News to get to meet him.

Jasper, the new puppy, he was born -- I think we have a picture there. He's one of those guys.

The day after we brought him to New York, I took him onto the set of "The Five." And he was so tiny, and he was kind of as sleepy then as he is now.

GRAPHIC: Jasper's "Five" Debut

PERINO: He won't walk. He's so tired.


PERINO: He's the tiredest dog you've ever met.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: He's a good boy, Dana.

PERINO: He's shaky. A little baby now. But everybody's been supportive. He's a good one. He'll be back.

And he has gone back. Every year on his birthday, April 9, and on other special occasions.

It's Jasper for real. It's his birthday.

I've had a love for dogs since I was a little girl. As a child in Wyoming and Colorado, my grandfather had working dogs on a ranch. And then my family had a home dog, we would call it, a house dog named Jocko. He was an apricot poodle, and he lived to be 17.

First dog I ever was responsible for to take care of was a Hungarian Vischla dog named Henry. After Peter and I got married in the U.K., we knew that we wanted to get a dog. We just didn't know what kind. And we met these Hungarian Vischlas on a trip to Switzerland. And by the time we left the gentlemen's house that we were visiting, we had ordered up a Vischla that was -- had just been born in Scotland.


PERINO: Henry was my dog when I was the White House press secretary. And one of the great things about Peter picking me up at night was that I knew that Henry wouldn't ask me how my day was. He was never impressed that I got to go to a state dinner, that I rode on Marine One. We just wanted a little cuddle, maybe a little play.

When we moved to New York, he had Cushing's Disease. And we lost him in 2012, just about six months after we moved here. We didn't think we could get another dog in New York. My friend said the first thing you should do to heal your heart is to get another puppy. And that's how we filled the hole in our hearts and got Jasper.

Jasper's connected me with so many people here in New York and across the country.

I have this book. And part of it is illustrated by somebody who I met on Twitter. His name is FiveFanPhotoshops. I connected with him on social media. And then we started working on this book project together. And that's how we ended up with this beautiful gallery.

Of course my favorite piece of artwork is not one of the Photoshops from FiveFan. It is a portrait that George W. Bush painted of my puppy. So the former president got the blue eyes that he had when he was a puppy, greenish eyes, a little ear and then he signs it "43."

"Let Me Tell You About Jasper" is a book that describes my love story with Jasper and the dogs I've had in my life. It also has lots of tips for dog training.

Dogs help us transcend politics. And in what has felt like a pretty polarized year for our country, I do think that we can find some common ground in our love for our family pets.



GUILFOYLE: There he is.

PERINO: All right. And that is it. We -- it's remarkable. During that entire thing, K.G., he sat here.

GUILFOYLE: Perfect. It's unbelievable. Since he was a baby and we first had him on the show and how much he's grown up. We're very proud of him.

PERINO: Somebody the other day, Julie, in the park, they stopped. We were walking him. And we called him, and a jogging by said, "Oh, my gosh. Is that the Jasper from FOX News?"

GUILFOYLE: That's awesome.

PERINO: And I went to get a picture with him, and he was like, "Oh, no, I just want the picture with Jasper."

GUILFOYLE: So hilarious.

ROGINSKY: By the way, Jasper was so attentively watching that whole segment on himself.

SHILLUE: Staring at the screen.

ROGINSKY: Staring at himself. That was great.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he kept -- he's a multi tasker and he can do different this.

GUILFOYLE: You've been on the road with him, right, for book signings.

PERINO: Well, the ones that we could drive to. Yes. I haven't gotten him a fake certificate to be a service dog, because that is probably the wrong thing to do. One thing that people don't realize, Pete, is that a portion of the book will go to Companions for Heroes, and they match up rescue dogs with wounded warriors. So if you're interested in that or you know somebody who could benefit, it's

And it's -- I've seen it, Tom, where people's lives are changed and saved because of the love of a dog.

SHILLUE: Absolutely true.

PERINO: Are you being lobbied by your girls to get a dog?

SHILLUE: Come on, don't even -- she mentioned it.

PERINO: I'm on your side.

HEGSETH: And you gave me a book signed to my three boys, who all want a dog.

PERINO: Just going to -- maybe it will happen.

HEGSETH: I don't know. They're watching now.

GUILFOYLE: They're such good boys, come on.

PERINO: They are good boys.

SHILLUE: How do you get better looking every year? I'm looking at that. I mean, you, too, Jasper.

PERINO: It's FOX hair and makeup.

GUILFOYLE: And great lighting.

PERINO: I look back at when I was White House press secretary. And I thought I really put in some effort and, no, obviously I did not.

GUILFOYLE: You were cracking up.

PERINO: I did love that job.

GUILFOYLE: This is great. The book is wonderful. What I think is very sweet, too, we talked about it, is that you had a chapter -- you have a chapter for Henry, who we all remember here at "The Five" very fondly. We were very attached to him and so sad when he passed. But it just, you know, goes to show you. Jasper helped you heal.

PERINO: Like a lot of shows at FOX where you get to know the personalities or the anchors, I think that "The Five," actually, even more so than any other, where you get to know -- like we know all about your son Ronan and your marriages. And then you find out you had a dog.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

Psychic Friends Network. Thank you. Thank you, Pete, thank you.

HEGSETH: Just looking for the facts here.

PERINO: Right, it was two. But that's been -- it's been a joy. So thanks for letting me have him. And thank you all at FOX News for helping me make him America's dog.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. And what about the pictures I get every day of him, Dana?

PERINO: Kimberly gets very special pictures of Jasper. Only for Kimberly. They're very special.

GUILFOYLE: Body parts pictures. Every morning.

PERINO: All right. Up next, a sneak peek at our Thanksgiving day fun. Don't go away. Thanks for joining us.


SHILLUE: I always get the funky music. We've all had a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving. So now that we've had our turkey and stuffing, we'd like to share with you some of how we spent the holiday -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All righty.

SHILLUE: What did you bring?

GUILFOYLE: So I didn't bring anything. But I've got some photos. I have stuffing in my pocket. So I went to the Macy's parade. OK? So that was quite fantastic, actually. And then that's me, inappropriately dressed.

ROGINSKY: How did you do that?

GUILFOYLE: I got -- here's what happened. I walked to my front door. I went back in, got my coat. It was just like a quick, like, go-see before I went. That's Ronan and his cousin Leo. They loved it. And we did the balloon inflating the night before.

SHILLUE: Balloon night. Fantastic.

GUILFOYLE: Super fun. And then they got light sabers and, like, were "Star Wars" fighting until midnight. So that was a little crazy. We had And then we did Thanksgiving dinner. We always do a nice job of co- parenting. That's me with Ro-dog and his dad, Eric. Very nice.

PERINO: You had steak?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, and I had steak. But then I did have some of his uncle's turkey, as well. Helped myself to a lot of things and some Brussels sprouts.

PERINO: Yes. I had Brussels sprouts, too.

SHILLUE: I love Brussels sprouts.

GUILFOYLE: At Porterhouse. It was very -- not Porter's house but Porterhouse restaurant.



PERINO: Well, I have a couple of things to share. Actually, we have a new tradition. On the night before Thanksgiving, we go for paella.

SHILLUE: Oh, I love...

PERINO: I don't know why this started. But it's actually very good.

GUILFOYLE: I love paella.

PERINO: I'll take you to this place. Take you there.

But we got to go -- once in a lifetime experience. Got to sit at the marquee at Macy's at the very end of the parade. Our friends, Terry and Tina Lundgren, invited us. So we were right there, and I couldn't take Jasper. I took felt Jasper and took a picture of my favorite float. Of course, you know, I love "Sesame Street." Always love it. And then, let's see, I think I got one of the pictures when Santa came. And I said, you know, "Believe." But this is my favorite part, when the Rockettes came. And they have their Christmas spectacular, which is amazing.

SHILLUE: Oh, yes.

PERINO: If you come to New York you must go to it. So I think we have a little video of that. Of -- I think -- there we go.

GUILFOYLE: You know I love it. So cute. I love that felt Jasper.

PERINO: So we had a good time. Kimberly loves felt Jasper. And he loves to sit with her.

GUILFOYLE: We're a little close. A little close.

PERINO: In a certain place. In her dress. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: He sits right here. (POINTS AT CHEST)

ROGINSKY: I went to Princeton, New Jersey, God's country; went to my best friend's parents' house. Hit them up for a lot of food, because my parents decided they weren't going to do turkey this year. They went to, I think, Boston Market or somewhere to get a chicken.

HEGSETH: Fantastic.

ROGINSKY: Because they decided this...

PERINO: It's all poultry.

ROGINSKY: It was all the same thing. Then I went back to my parents' house with my son. And we have our cousin, who's -- our cousin Helen who I love, she came over, as well. We had a lovely Thanksgiving. I was in bed by 9 p.m.

SHILLUE: No photos? No photographic evidence?

ROGINSKY: I have -- excuse me, I have a photo of my dog. But apparently, they're not putting it up there for some reason.

PERINO: There he is.


ROGINSKY: That's my little Grimace.

PERINO: How did you name a cute dog like that Grimace?

ROGINSKY: Because...

ROBOTIC VOICE: Time and traffic...

ROGINSKY: Oh, hello.

SHILLUE: The directions home from Thanksgiving.

GUILFOYLE: Your New Jersey Bridgegate update.

ROGINSKY: Update. I named him Grimace because he had a little grimace on his face when I got him. But he's the cutest, and I love him.

SHILLUE: Pete, what have you got, a football tournament?

HEGSETH: That's right. We had a football tournament.

PERINO: Oh, fun.

HEGSETH: It was in Pittsburgh with the in-laws, Downtown Billy Jean and his wife and their kids. It was wonderful. We played the first inaugural -- first inaugural -- it's the Turkey Bowl there. The teams were split. Kids got hot chocolate. Adults got beer.

PERINO: Who won?

HEGSETH: And then after that, we -- we did, of course. And then after that, we were watching my Minnesota Vikings get beat as they often do, unfortunately. And my two best players on my squad, Gunner and Boon, were out before the game even started.

GUILFOYLE: Where's cute Rex?

HEGSETH: Cute Rex was sleeping, as well, upstairs. So we wore them all out.

SHILLUE: Fantastic.

ROGINSKY: You have a child that sleeps? I'm jealous.

SHILLUE: I didn't bring pictures. I didn't take pictures of Thanksgiving. They only took a picture of my side dish. Show it. The -- my drink.

GUILFOYLE: What's going on with this?

SHILLUE: You know, you'll see. Look at that. That's the best side.

HEGSETH: That's the best side.

SHILLUE: That's a rye on the rocks.

GUILFOYLE: You're kind of old fashioned.


GUILFOYLE: Like the quartet. Rye on the rocks. Charming.

SHILLUE: Like Don Draper.

GUILFOYLE: So charming.

SHILLUE: Without the infidelity.

GUILFOYLE: Nice save. Nice save.

SHILLUE: OK. Is this it? We're going to go?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know what's happening here. So bizarre.

SHILLUE: We've got to go.

PERINO: "One More Thing."

SHILLUE: "One More Thing" is next.

GUILFOYLE: It's not in the prompter, guys.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back to "The Five." time for "One More Thing." I'll begin with myself, because it seems like a safe thing to do. So today everybody was really upset about something that happened and because it's somebody we all grew up with. Mourning the loss of a TV legend who became part of our lives and came into our homes.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (SINGING): Here's the story of a lovely lady who was bringing up three very lovely girls. All of them had hair of gold like their mother.


GUILFOYLE: Aw, very sweet. Brings back a lot of memories. Florence Henderson, who played the iconic TV mom Carol Brady in the '70s sit com "The Brady Bunch," passed away last night from heart failure at a Los Angeles hospital. And she was surrounded by family and friends. She was 82. She will be missed. And all the people from "Dancing with the Stars" were tweeting and Instagraming pictures of her. She was really beloved. A very, very special lady.

PERINO: I used to run home from the bus so I could watch it.

GUILFOYLE: I loved it.

ROGINSKY: I learned English watching. True story.

GUILFOYLE: Miss Dana, you're next.

PERINO: Well, I'm just going to completely dog out. Because last night on Instagram somebody followed me named South African Woodley. Sent me a note that said you might not know that Clifford the Big Red Dog was originally inspired by a Vischla. I said, "Is that true?" And so I Googled it, and sure enough, it says they were a Vischla crossed with a Labrador.

However, then so I tell the producers that's what I want to do. And then I get this information from Mental Floss that says it actually wasn't a Vischla, though it says characteristic of a giant Vischla. But it was really about a rather large bloodhound. But I still love Clifford.

SHILLUE: It was fake news. That came from -- that came from Russia.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, we've turned into an investigation show, I think you can tell. Very high caliber.

All right. Pete.

HEGSETH: Yes. Love Clifford. Also, big fan of "The Brady Bunch."


HEGSETH: I love them.

And also a sad note, very consequential, the first casualty -- combat casualty against the fight against ISIS happened in Syria on Thanksgiving. The name of that soldier is not yet known. Stepped on IED 30 miles outside north of the city of Raqqah, the capital of ISIS. And I just think for all of us, for everyone at this table, it's such a sober reminder that, as we eat turkey and play football, there are men and women out there in the dirt for us right now preserving our safety. So certainly that family and him in our prayers.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Fighting for our liberty and our freedom every day while we get to sit at this table -- Tom.

SHILLUE: Absolutely.

Well, the Christmas season is coming up. Something caught my eye. The Donald Trump presidential campaign, they're selling 24-karat Christmas tree ornaments. Look at those things. Make America great again. Only $149. What does it mean, though?

GUILFOYLE: I mean, it's kind of cute.

ROGINSKY: Solid gold.

PERINO: Solid gold.

SHILLUE: it's very Trumpian. But if you don't have the money for that, 150 bucks, 18 bucks will get you this handsome this T-shirt, Big League.

PERINO: You're going to look great in that.

SHILLUE: Yes. I mean, that's my style. The sleeveless tank.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. To show off those arms.




SHILLUE: And the guns. They're big league. That's what I call -- this is "Big" and this is "League."

GUILFOYLE: OK. So Julie, what do you have for us?

ROGINSKY: Well, I actually have some happy news, unlike every other buzzkill here. I want to congratulate. I think their names are Therese and Thomas -- sorry, Therese and her husband, whose last name is Thomas -- Austin Thomas -- who gave birth on the side of the road.

PERINO: Yesterday?

ROGINSKY: Yesterday.


ROGINSKY: Yesterday during rush hour. They were on the side of the Spring Brook (ph) Parkway, which I take up to my house in Massachusetts all the time. And they were -- could not get to the hospital in time. They gave birth to Talia, a beautiful baby girl.

PERINO: The husband helped.

ROGINSKY: The husband helped. Yes, it's wonderful. The husband got the instructions from 911.

PERINO: He helped before and after.

ROGINSKY: One would assume. I don't want to make assumptions. But definitely helped after. And congratulations to them.

GUILFOYLE: OK. You guys have been such a pleasure. Thanks everybody for watching. Keep it right here on Fox News Channel. Doug McKelway with "Special Report" next.

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