THE FIVE

Trump holds meetings with potential Cabinet picks

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. Its 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

It's a very busy weekend and another busy day today for Donald Trump, the president-elect, as he works to form his cabinet and fill other key posts in his administration. On Saturday, 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney met with Mr. Trump at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

He may be in consideration for the job of Secretary of State even after trading critical words with the president-elect during the heated campaign season. Today, another one-time adversary, Rick Perry, was spotted at Trump Tower. The former Texas governor may be a contender to lead the defense or energy department.

Also meeting with Mr. Trump, Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin who could be chosen to head the Interior Department and former U.S. Senator Scott Brown, friend of ours, in possible contention for Veterans Affairs Secretary. Lots and lots here. Let's first look at a sound bite from the meeting with Governor Romney and then we'll get Kimberly's reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER MASSACHUSSETS GOVERNOR: We had a far reaching conversation with regard to various theaters of the world with the interests of the United States of real significance. We discussed those areas and exchanged our views on those topics. Very thorough and in-depth discussion in the time we had and appreciate the chance to speak with the president-elect and look forward to the coming administration.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you bury the hatchet?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Kimberly, a little bit of the odd couple meeting on Saturday.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I know. It's interesting. But you know I like that we kind of had a front row seat to it to be able to see it happening in real time. Because at first the media was criticizing, this is chaos. It didn't look chaotic to me. It looked pretty orderly. It was interesting. The media was there. It was transparent.

But then on the other hand now instead of talking about that it was in total chaos, they are saying, it was a media event, it's turned into the whole, you know, Trump show, et cetera. You can't please them, no matter what you do. But he is having a nice orderly process and I like to be able to see who is coming in, who is in contention, to be able to discuss it and read about them and see perhaps, you know, what some of the feedback is about it.

And this is an example of Trump putting his money -- substantial amounts of it -- where his mouth is, by reaching out and meeting with Governor Romney, somebody who was his adversary during this process to say, look, people who criticized me, I will in fact work with them and sit them down at the table in an earnest effort to govern this country effectively as I promised the voters.

PERINO: So a wide array of people. Gutfeld, you said you wanted to talk about General Mattis who came. We have some sound.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Oh, great. I love sound.

PERINO: OK, on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: All I can say is, he is the real deal. He is the real deal.

JAMES MATTIS, FORMER UNITED STATES MARINE CORP GENERAL: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will he have a place in your administration?

TRUMP: We will see. He's just a brilliant, wonderful man. What a career and we're going to see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Greg, your thoughts?

GUTFELD: I love anyone with a good nickname. Mattis has three. He has three nicknames, "Chaos," "Warrior Monk" and "Mad Dog." Maybe it's me but I don't think these nicknames portend a buttercup who's going to be too concerned about collateral damage. I mean, if you ever read any of his quotes, he is like a quote catapult. My favorite one he said is, "be polite, be professional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

GUILFOYLE: I mean, he's my ideal man.

GUTFELD: Yes, he is --

GUILFOYLE: I can't even tell you.

GUTFELD: He's your soul mate Kimberly. And you know what it is? I think his primary rule of engagement is to kill. He understands the USP of a soldier. He's not sending those guys out to be social workers. He's sending them out there to complete a mission, and the mission is a mission that so many people don't want to admit to but he understands it, which makes him - - he represents everything that President Obama avoided in his nominations, which is the ugly, brutal reality of the world.

PERINO: What do you think, Eric? I mean, obviously -- there's a lot of people coming through. They've made some announcements and I suppose (inaudible) it looks like they might wait until after Thanksgiving to announce a whole bunch more.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes, I'm not sure. So he did, he met with "Mad Dog" Mattis. You have to love that, (inaudible)

GUILFOYLE: That is one of my nicknames by the way.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Mitt Romney, yesterday -- that's great -- today, Scott Brown. Newt Gingrich apparently is there right now. But the one that stood out for me today, Tulsi Gubbard. I thought that was fantastic. He met with a Democrat who has -- who questioned Obama and Hillary Clinton's Syrian strategy, and I think that was very smart that Trump reached out to her and talked to her about whether -- I don't know, maybe bring her into the administration in some form, but it shows that he wants to win. He wants to do what's best for the country. I thought that was a great few minutes he spent with her.

PERINO: Let's get you in here Geraldo. What do you think?

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: I think General Mattis is an excellent choice for a reason that I don't think many people recognize aside from the fact that he is an indomitable warrior. I saw him in Iraq and in Afghanistan. He is a real, real soldier. He sees ISIS as the primary threat to the United States, that's very, very important, but he also is an advocate of the two-state solution.

He believes that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are counterproductive to the peace process. And I think that when you take that point of view, that may be why he doesn't get the nomination. But if he does, I think that it bodes well for President Trump going forward in the Middle East. In terms of Mitt Romney, the only thing I worry about -- I like that they buried the hatchet -- but you have to remember that Romney believes Russia is the prime threat to the United States. He said that.

Remember Obama said when you re-dredging your 2008 -- whatever it was in his debate with Romney -- he said he was old-fashion to still be focused on Russia. Trump wants -- they talked with Russia to go against ISIS, the really enemy as I do. I agree with Trump on that. So, I wonder substantively aside from burying the hatchet stuff if they're not on different wave lengths. PERINO: Kimberly, let's play sound from something from Vice-President Mike Pence who we're going to talk about a lot. So you want to stick around on the show because we have something later on that everybody has been talking about all weekend on the "Hamilton" play. Mike Pence was on "Face The Nation" on CBS yesterday morning talking about possible ways to go against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRSIDENT-ELECT: A president Donald Trump is going to focus on confronting and defeating radical Islamic terrorism as a threat to this country. And we're going to have a president again who will never say what we'll never do. I think in president-elect Donald Trump, you have someone who believes that we shouldn't be telling the enemy what our tactics or our strategies are.

JOHN DICKERSON, FACE THE NATION HOST, CBS NEWS: The enemy already knows that water boarding is not something the United States does. Is it going to be reassessed by the Trump administration?

PENCE: Well, I think the president-elect made his views on that quite clear during the course of the campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I think one thing, Kimberly, he could have added is that the Trump administration will follow the law, but we will not going to tell the enemy what we're going to do, otherwise, pretty tough.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and good. They should be because this was the message. It's consistent, on point with the campaign. So, he nailed that landing. The Russian judge would even give him a 10. So that's what he should be saying.

I'm not going to tell anybody what I'm going to do to you if you're very bad. Let yourself like live in fear about this and suspense, because you have to have all tools on the table to be able to utilize to your advantage, especially in the face of non-compliance with your adversary. OK? So that's it. No more light pink line drawn in the sand. When it's red, it's the enemy's blood that's spilled. Just ask Mattis.

PERINO: Greg, I wondered if the environmental community today was freaking that maybe somebody from Texas would end up at the energy department and Rick Perry apparently meeting today, would that be a possible job for him?

GUTFELD: Yes, again, I can't help but think if this is some kind of a kabuki theater like that president-elect Trump is inviting all the exes over that spurned him and now he's rubbing their face. I just can't see Perry -- Perry was one of the first and hardest at the beginning. But you know, I want to talk about the fact that there are more women, that you are seeing more women being up there.

It's going to be hard for liberal critics now to use that as an excuse when there's -- I think there must be four to half, maybe half a dozen women that are being looked at, right? I think so. There was really four. Yes, so I mean that -- what would they -- so, they're going to have to like demand -- they're going to have to say, OK, what can we demand now? Lactose intolerant vegans? Are they going to have to go for height challenged, you know, warlocks like myself.

GUILFOYLE: I was going to say you.

GUTFELD: Yes, they're going to have to find, like, they're going to have to -- they're running out of criticism. The more you see -- you see Democrats. He's got -- he had at least two Democrats there. Maybe more.

PERINO: It's fairly common to have a Democrat join an administration, Geraldo, because I think, well, it kind of started with Bill Clinton when he had William Cohen as his Secretary of Defense.

RIVERA: I actually saw William Cohen endorsing the selection of General Mattis if it comes to that. Rick Perry, I don't see. I remember him sitting right here. I happen to be a co-host and he was running for president and everybody reminded him that he didn't remember the Department of Energy when asked, you know, so and now --

GUTFELD: Maybe that's good.

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: I think that the kabuki theater might be -- might have hit it. The one that really scares me though is Kris Kobach, the current Secretary of State of Kansas for Department of Homeland Security.

BOLLING: I know why.

RIVERA: Because he is the hardest -- first of all, he is for the Muslim registry, which I am opposed to. Actually, we had a Muslim registry from 2002 to 2003. People forget that, and as a result of it, 14,000 Muslim immigrants who had overstayed their visa were deported. But then we found - - the Bush administration found constitutional problems with it. They did away with the program, but he is the hardest liner in terms of deportation.

I think he'd go after the Dream Act students and he really -- I've debated him. He's a very, very intelligent Ivy League educated fellow (inaudible). But I think he would be a disaster from the point of view of the immigrant community. I think that he would be a disaster, Kris Kobach.

PERINO: Last word to you Eric on any of them.

BOLLING: No -- one thing that is concerning to me is, there was rumblings especially about John McCain said he would push back if there was anyone that was trying to push waterboarding, to reinstitute waterboarding. That's an interesting conflict that may happen. So whoever gets appointed will go through the processing. You need -- right now, Republicans are at 51, so you can lose one Republican vote and that's assuming whoever gets appointed isn't one of those Republican votes so, anyway, so that would be like --

RIVERA: You mean like Jeff Sessions?

BOLLING: Yes, unless you replace him with another Republican.

PERINO: Right, and Alabama governor Robert Bentley.

BOLLING: Right, and Alabama is pretty safe but in a place that may not be safe, you know, and Louisiana right now is still up in the air. You're not sure who that final senate seat is going to go to. Very quickly though, one of the most disturbing things I read this today was, "Wall Street Journal" had a piece saying that President Obama was looking to shore up the Iran nuclear deal prior to leaving.

He's got 59 days left and for me, this is very, very scary. They really need to push back and yes, transition is important, but someone needs to get front and center saying, hey, whatever deal you are about to make with President Obama, we're coming next and we're going to renegotiate that deal.

PERINO: There's a lot more to come on that too and including also not just Iran deal but also some warnings from some to President Obama about Israel and not making any decisions there.

RIVERA: Moving the embassy to Jerusalem.

PERINO: Or other things. Much more to come on the Trump transition. And later, an actor who plays a vice-president gave our vice-president-elect a hard time when he went to see "Hamilton" on Friday night. It got Mr. Trump upset, but Mike Pence has a different takeaway. His reaction is next on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Hi, welcome back to "The Five." We have no script so let's see what's going to happen. I guess I can talk about whatever I want. Sounds like funny (ph). Let's talk about hop along and the transition. Who else did we saw?

RIVERA: Why don't you ask Bolling if he has been asked to visit Trump Tower to get a job a there.

GUILFOYLE: I believe you just did.

BOLLING: I've been to Trump Tower. I talked to all my friends over there. We have very close friends over there and there is --

RIVERA: Can you tell us for the record whether they offered you a job?

PERINO: Why are you doing that to your co-host?

BOLLING: I wouldn't tell you that one way or the other. I would just tell you that they are good friends of mine and I love my job and I have every intention to stay right here for as long as Fox will have me sitting next to you, Geraldo.

RIVERA: That sounded a little equivocal.

GUILFOYLE: Make Fox News great again.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: All right. OK, so --

RIVERA: I'm proud to sit here.

GUILFOYLE: All right Geraldo. We're out of time.

PERINO: This is why we should have had a script.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. All right, so let's talk about Michelle Rhee who is being considered the top candidate in fact for Secretary of Education but it's not without its controversial aspects because she is somebody who had her back common core (ph) and being a Democrat. But yet there's other attributes that would be considered favorable.

PERINO: Well she was basically like an actor for creative destruction in the D.C. public school and was really I think quite heroic in all that she did there. She was somebody who was just not afraid to make really tough decisions and be criticized all throughout D.C.

In fact I think she's absolutely a force for good and I hope that she does or somebody like her would be able to fill that role because goodness knows our schoolchildren and the teachers and principals in particular, the principals need to be empowered. And I think she's got just a different and better approach on education.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, I like her because she had some innovative ideas. For example, she tried to get salaries for teachers based on student achievement and not on tenure and that upset a lot of unions.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes.

GUTFELD: So she's kind of like -- she's an Obama opposite. It's not somebody like I said in the A block, that he would nominate. She supports vouchers and school choice. She's also married to KJ, Kevin Johnson. We went to school together in Berkeley. He used to walk into my room when I was half asleep and hung over and stare at me and just shake his head and leave.

BOLLING: Is he a mayor? A mayor of Sacramento?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: He's out because you were half clothed.

GUTFELD: Yes, mayor of Sacrament. He actually, I think somebody tried to throw a pie in his face recently and he beat him up.

GUILFOYLE: Nice.

RIVER: Hannity put me in a chokehold.

GUILFOYLE: One tough hombre.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: A chokehold?

BOLLING: Not another chokehold.

GUILFOYLE: Interrogation is like --

BOLLING: You're making a lot of friends today.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Don't talk to him in the break.

GUILFOYLE: Good to show you.

BOLLING: Can I just add, I'm sorry, that I said that I think the Department of Education should be shut down and Michelle Rhee might be the right one to do it if --

GUILFOYLE: Well, she gets the spot and --

BOLLING: Let me clarify that. I think this is a better idea to keep it open right now and re-shift the focus to school choice. Trump has said he wanted to spend $20 billion immediately to offer school choice, to offer more choices. I think that number is going to be substantially higher than that and you need someone on board who knows what it's all about, both Democrat -- knows the Democrat way of thinking, the unions, et cetera, teachers unions, and also someone willing to make that change. That is a massive change in the way America looks at education. She's probably the right one.

RIERA: I agree. And it also opens, you know, the scenario for more charter schools. More school choice. I don't think that it's, you know, a kind synonym or hidden code word for racism in public schools. I think charter schools are integrated. They're terrific. They have a real role to play and I agree with Greg in terms of the unions having a disproportionate power where so much of their effort and energy goes into, you know, kind of getting their own benefits enhanced, their salaries enhanced rather than the performance of the children.

GUTFELD: And when you look at Rhee and you look at Gabbard, it's got to be really hard for the media to keep pushing the alt right meme. You know? Its like do any of these people look like they belong to the alt right?

GUILFOYLE: Well, no. So, it's a total disconnect to what they're putting forward and their mantra and their criticism about the potential administration of, you know, Donald Trump, the president-elect. GO ahead, you want to talk about Sessions?

RIVERA: I do. I think where the rubber really hits the road will be with the attorney general selection, already announced, Jeff Sessions, the Alabama senator who -- you have to have -- everyone has to remember that in 1986, in the Reagan administration and a Republican dominated senate, he was denied a federal judgeship because of alleged racist activities in his background.

He was a teenager, a white teenager in Selma, Alabama during the famous march across the bridge and all of you can imagine what teenagers, you know, with similar backgrounds were doing on both sides of that wrenching (ph) conflict. People have changed. He's changed. He marched in the Selma 50-year celebration or commemoration, which is great. But I think that he's going to have some baggage --

BOLLING: He spent 10 years prosecuting segregation. He was for desegregation, civil rights cases. So he may have had --

GUILFOYLE: So much for someone's conduct and actions.

BOLLING: You know, you want to call it a questionable moment in life, but for the past 30 years, he certainly has gone a completely different direction away from any of that stuff that happened -- may or may not have happened years ago.

RIVERA: I agree with you but, you know, 30 years is 30 years and people have to judge whether it affects the man today.

GUTFELD: Well, I've said it before. The people in that hearing are no longer with us. And also, he also prosecuted the head of the KKK. If that's racist, we need more racists.

RIVERA: Well, I will let that --

GUILFOYLE: Right, I mean, I think to be fair, you got to judge the man.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, he put a guy away who was the head of the KKK.

GUILFOYLE: Right. You have to judge a man or a woman on their conduct, their actions. He has 30 years of service and dedication in the civil rights area and instead of the people that want to question and interpret a sentence or two, a statement that he made, I mean I think the choice is obvious. Next, president-elect Trump is not happy with the cast of "Hamilton" after his vice-president-elect got heckled in the audience on Friday. Now there is Greg. He has a lot to say about the incident and so do the rest of us when "The Five" returns. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Did you hear about vice-president-elect Mike Pence checking out the Broadway show "Hamilton"? Surprise, surprise! He was booed by the crowd. Then the cast lectured him, nice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON VICTOR DIXON, THEATER ACTOR: Vice president-elect Pence, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here "Hamilton" in America. We really do. We sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us -- all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Thank you so much. You're so smart.

Now, if you expect any of us to flip out, I'm not going to. I'm no baby. I don't need a safe space. I'm used to the right being singled out by the entertainers. Actors seem brave and unpredictable but they're spontaneous as a tax return. However, this was lame.

Imagine a right wing doctor in a very sensitive visit. He's got his head down deep in a pelvic exam and suddenly pops up and says, "Before I tell you what you have, Mrs. Kaine (ph), you need to know how the left has ruined our nation's inner cities." That's what these actors did. They violated the terms of service. The customer when he purchases your work makes a pact. Once you violate it, the manners we take for granted in society, they fall apart.

No one wants a lecture when you're getting a latte. So if you get one without asking, isn't that grounds for some discipline?

But libs work by different rules especially they're entertainers. Comedians attack their own audience for not agreeing with them. Singers demand that you vote like them and musicians throw fits if a Republican uses their song.

How odd that the proponents of free expression think free only applies to them. But even better, the one thing these actors didn't want, happened: They made Mike Pence look good.

Speaking of, here is Mike Pence reacting to this on another program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: It was a real joy to be there and, you know, when we arrived, we heard a few boos and we heard some cheers and I nudged any kids and reminded them, that's what freedom sounds like. But at the end, you know, I did hear what was said from the stage and I can tell you, I wasn't offended by what was said. I will leave to others whether that was the appropriate venue to say it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Eric, that was a great response.

BOLLING: Great response. So much to talk about this. The actor, Brandon Victor Dixon said this is a discussion. Well, it wasn't a discussion when you stand on a stage with the only microphone and the other person in the discussion is sitting in the audience with his daughter and his daughter's friends or cousins. That was ridiculous.

The crowd was worse than the actor. And I'm all for free speech. I'm all for his ideas. I think his ideas are fantastic. But deliver those ideas not on Broadway, not to an audience that can't -- or to a person that can't even respond. Deliver that to MSNBC where they belong.

GUTFELD: Yes. The person you got to listen to as an authority, Stevie Van Zandt from Bruce Springsteen's event, was one of the first persons that fought against apartheid. He wrote the song "Sun City." He tweeted this out, "There has never been a more outspoken politically active artist than me.

He was their guest. You protect your guest. Don't embarrass them." The second tweet, "A guy comes to a Broadway show for a relaxing night out, instead he gets a lecture from the stage. Not a level playing field which is what you were saying, Eric. It's bullying. Isn't it bullying, Kumberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I just think it's bad form. I wasn't impressed at all. I'm super excited to keep my $1,400 that I wasn't going to spend there. Honestly, yes. I mean, they are just so arrogant, so self-important. I'd rather watch, like, reruns of "Narcos" or something. You know? I mean, honestly.

And to say that -- Mike Pence is such a kind man. And he's so dignified. He's a class act. And it's just, to me, really was another opportunity for him to demonstrate how to handle things properly. And I felt bad, because he's there, you know, with his daughter, et cetera.

Nevertheless, he rose to the occasion. He was vice-presidential. And for people to see the way he reacted with greatness and with dignity in the face of smallness.

GUTFELD: Geraldo, how about the other side of this? Could -- you know, the protesters and activists always say they're doing it in the name of the greater good. In this case, Mike Pence is against gay marriage. So they're saying, like, "If this guy is in our house, this is our opportunity to point out his intolerance. Why should we be tolerant?"

RIVERA: Well, first of all, let me just -- without being condescending to people from the West Coast, let me just suggest that New York is a town, it's a rough town. I mean, you go to Yankee Stadium, everybody gets booed at Yankee stadium. And this is the most political play on Broadway. This is -- this is -- everybody in that building is Jewish, gay, Latino and/or black. Everybody in that building voted for Hillary Clinton. It's as if Hillary Clinton walked on the stage of the Country Music Awards.

You know, very sensitive, immigration is a big issue with "Hamilton," who was an immigrant from the Virgin Islands up to the United States. And he made his fortune, and immigrants can get the job done. And in New York, you can be a new man. My family loves this play.

And in terms of Judge Jeanine leading the campaign to boycott "Hamilton," New Yorkers are cheering, because maybe tickets will become available for less than the $1,400.

GUILFOYLE: Right. They're, like, sold out except for, you know, the brokers and stuff for 1,400. So they feel they can get away with it and, like, thumb their nose at everybody.

PERINO: I DVR-ed the PBS special.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: That's how I watched it.

RIVERA: It's great.

GUILFOYLE: Juan thought that was it.

GUTFELD: Do you find it funny that, I mean -- actors are probably the most -- living in a bubble world. And coming out and talking about being inclusive. Have you ever been around an actor, a young actor? They're not entirely inclusive.

PERINO: Well, and he says it was a spontaneous conversation. But he read his statement off of an iPhone.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: At the end of the play.

The other thing is, President Obama, in his -- when he first ran for president in 2008, both he and Hillary Clinton said that they were against gay marriage. That they believed that marriage was between a man and a woman. And I don't think Broadway said a word...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: ... about either of them in that first term at all.

The other thing is that Donald Trump has said he thinks that issue is done, over with. He's not pursuing it.

RIVERA: Gay marriage?

PERINO: Yes. So Mike Pence isn't going do it either. So give it a rest.

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go.

RIVERA: But isn't the bottom line that Pence went through the storm and emerged as the big person in the room?

GUTFELD: Right. Yes.

RIVERA: Doesn't it have a happy ending?

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: So that the right should not be outraged.

PERINO: No. We won.

RIVERA: He was tested by the hardest crowd, the toughest stage.

BOLLING: Here is how tough it was. Don't forget: "Hamilton," the cast of "Hamilton" did a fund-raiser for Hillary Clinton. Remember?

RIVERA: Right. Right.

BOLLING: You can't even touch a ticket.

GUILFOYLE: And they're there, taking pictures and stuff like that.

RIVERA: Lin-Miguel Menendez...

BOLLING: That was Pence's definitely away -- away stadium.

GUILFOYLE: He was like, "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

GUTFELD: The left should learn that when they -- when you out number somebody, they generally win. Because everybody sympathizes with David and not Goliath.

All right. Police in America coming under attack once again. Four more shootings of officers over the weekend. The breaking details when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Going back to "The Five," some very upsetting news this Monday: four police officers have come under attack over the last 24 hours alone in three different states, Texas, Missouri and Florida. It's believed three of those incidences were targeted attacks.

A detective in San Antonio was killed while writing a traffic ticket. A sergeant in St. Louis was shot in the face by someone in a car who pulled up alongside his cruiser. An officer in Gladstone, Missouri, was shot after a passenger ran from a car during a traffic stop. And in Sanibel, Florida, another officer shot while conducting a traffic stop.

And I'm hearing right now that the suspect in the San Antonio killing which killed the officer may be -- may have been caught. So we're going to work on confirmation of that.

In the meantime, how will President-elect Donald Trump address the attacks on law enforcement in America when he takes office? He declared during the campaign that the -- he was the law and order candidate. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Law and order must be restored. The war on our police must end, and it must end now.

The war on police is a war on all peaceful citizens who want to be able to work and live and send their kids to school in safety. Our job is not to make life more comfortable for the rioter or the robber or the looter or the violent disrupter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Now Dana, that resonated with a lot of his supporters.

PERINO: Absolutely.

BOLLING: A lot of Americans, actually.

PERINO: Yes, and I think that's one of the reasons he got so much support across the board.

The thing I wonder about is -- aside from setting the tone and perhaps some resources through the federal government, I'm not exactly sure what a president can do to affect local crime. That is something -- maybe enhance coordination or if the police departments say they need more support. But other than that, I'm not exactly sure what he can do.

BOLLING: I think -- I think -- I think local police departments could use more assets. They could use more money. They're always looking for money. There's always reasons to spend -- even body cameras is another...

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Body cams, you know, protective gear, more training. I mean, instead of, like, constantly bad-mouthing and penalizing police officers, I'm looking forward to this administration being for law and order, which protects public safety and keeps families and children safe and does help the economy by creating opportunity in neighborhoods where otherwise people would be afraid to go into open businesses.

And to me, this is so important. I saw firsthand as a prosecutor working gang cases in the Los Angeles D.A.'s office and San Francisco, communities in strife and how much they relied on the police department.

And instead, in the wake of Ferguson and other things that we have seen, which has been definitely a hostile environment to law enforcement across this country, we are now, every day when you turn the television on, hearing another tragic tale about a family that has lost a member in blue, a woman, a man, police officer that have gone forward, got up in the morning, put their shoes on and hoped to not catch a bullet and lose their life so that they can read their kid a book at night before they go to sleep.

And that's what we have to think about. There are human beings that are making the ultimate sacrifice. They should be respected and not automatically call a whole department racist and call for the attorney general to investigate civil rights violations every time there's a shooting that occurs.

But nothing happens in a case like this.

This president, I believe, will in fact, call those police officers, will in fact, invite them to the White House instead of inviting people, Black Lives Matter to the White House instead.

BOLLING: K.G. just hit on a lot of things. Can a president effect change down to the mayoral level and then effect change down to the chief of police level?

GUTFELD: I don't think so. I think -- I don't think it's about resources. It's about morale.

GUILFOYLE: It's part of it.

GUTFELD: It's about morale. It's about, for the last few years, we have ginned up a lot of antipathy towards police through the media. Look at what's happening post-election.

The media is chasing phantoms of hate crimes and hoaxes while this is going on. You've got these horrible shootings. But people are worried about these swastikas showing up places, and they cannot figure out where they're coming from. This is far more important.

But there's an interesting thing about -- all of these -- almost all of these were routine stops. And it tells you that every single action in a police officer's life has to be totally alert. Even when he's writing a ticket, he has to be completely alert. Nobody gets that.

So when an activist gets up in the morning, after playing four hours of video games and sitting around doing nothing, and then they go out to protest a cop, that cop has been alert all day and has to be alert with you at all times. And he is vulnerable at every moment. Meanwhile, the people that protest them, they don't give a...

BOLLING: Yes. They don't have to be -- they don't have to watch their back 24/7.

GUTFELD: Yes, they don't have to watch -- yes.

BOLLING: Geraldo, what about re-examining our rules of engagement for law enforcement?

RIVERA: Well, let me just say, I don't disagree with anything that anyone has said on this issue thus far.

GUILFOYLE: Smart move.

RIVERA: Thank you. But I think the one thing that we're missing is the role that rhetoric has played. I mean, that I think, to Dana's point is where the president can really -- by condemning the people who are making the "racist pig cops" and all this kind of language, I think they are creating a climate, a hateful climate where there is some cache, some perverse cache in taking on an officer with violence. And I think that that is sick and must be confronted.

BOLLING: Can I just add that -- that saying that you believe Black Lives Matter and getting behind that movement adds to the problem. It doesn't help the problem. It adds to the rhetoric, the heightened rhetoric and the divisiveness between that community and the law enforcement community.

RIVERA: Let me give you a specific example of what I was talking about. Now Chicago, everybody admits, whether you're right, left, whether you're Rahm Emanuel, Donald Trump, you admit this is a city experiencing a violent crisis. Where, you know, so many people are dying. Every weekend, you know, a prominent official's son and grandson; and there is blood in the streets. We need, in Chicago, Stop and Frisk. I mean, it's -- to me, it's one of those simple solutions.

GUILFOYLE: We need it everywhere so they don't turn into Chicago.

RIVERA: Particularly in a place where the -- that's what I'm getting at.

So I think that he can say, first of all, cops are our brothers and our sisters, and we honor them. Second of all, don't -- why are you complaining only about this when you have this much bigger issue that is afflicting your community in such a profound way?

BOLLING: We've got to leave it right there.

President Bush has graciously withheld public criticism of his successor, President Obama, since leaving office. President Obama, on the other hand, isn't vowing to extend the same courtesy to President-elect Trump. He's got conditions, when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIVERA: When President Bush left office in 2009, he made a vow that he would not criticize President Obama, President Bush saying that his successor deserved his silence.

Yesterday, Mr. Obama was asked if he also planned to stay quiet on President-elect Trump. President Obama, though, signaled there may be limits to his silence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to be respectful of the office and give the president-elect an opportunity to put forward his - - his platform.

If there are issues that have less to do with the specifics of some legislative proposal or battle but go to core questions about our values and our ideals, then I will examine it when it comes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: A long one.

RIVERA: Dana, I think that George W. Bush really did himself tremendous credit by his dignity and his discretion, let me say, after he left office. But he must have been biting the inside of his cheeks or his tongue when people criticized him about things like Katrina or the economic situation.

PERINO: Yes. Even that year leading up to the -- even before we knew who was going to win the 2008 election, he would be asked all the time about his legacy. And one of the best things he used to say is that, in 2008, he read three biographies about George Washington. And if the first president was still being written about, then the 43rd didn't have a lot to worry about, because he would never know.

GUILFOYLE: I love that.

PERINO: And he really followed in the footsteps of his father, who did the same. And they were just patriots and gracious and all that. Sometimes it gave me heartburn. Right? Because you think, my gosh, that's not actually true. But I was out there. And there were a few other people like Karl and Karen Hughes, Ari Fleischer that -- Nicole Wallace, others that were able to say, "Actually, let us tell you what it is."

The thing is, I think, with President Obama, he's a very young man. He's leaving the presidency at a young age. He has a lot of life to live. I don't think we exactly know -- maybe he doesn't know yet all the range of things that he's going to want to do in his life from the library, the institute, the philanthropy, the business, whatever he decides to do. But I also believe this. I think that President Obama thinks that if he would have been on the ballot this year, that he would have beat Donald Trump.

RIVERA: What do you think?

PERINO: He won't -- I don't think he will bite his tongue too much.

RIVERA: But Greg, here, let's just say -- just say that legislation is proposed and looks like it could pass, that they there will be a registry of everyone who's Muslim. Wouldn't that be something so extraordinary that you would expect President Obama to say something?

GUTFELD: Well, actually, the point is, there's no one on the left to present a formidable opposition. There's not even a Jon Stewart around anymore to pitch in.

RIVERA: True.

GUTFELD: So all they have -- they have no bench. All they have is a former -- President Obama and his wife are the only people that anybody is going to listen to. And what's he going to do? He's going to be like Waterson in "Dazed and Confused." He's the guy that graduated from high school but still drives around the high school to pick up chicks.

You know, he's like, "What do I do now? I'm in D.C. I got nothing to do." So he might just have to do this, because there's nobody else there to do it.

PERINO: Interesting.

RIVERA: What's your expectation?

BOLLING: So President Obama in that sound bite said if Donald Trump or President Trump says something that goes to the core question of our values and morals. But here's the question, "our"? Because we know there's a vast divide between what President Obama's ideals and values are and what Donald Trump's are.

I mean, we elected the next president. OK? The people elected the next president. Whatever your view of ideals and values are, were rejected. And Hillary Clinton was pretty much along the same lines as Obama's. So it's time to left the president do what the people have asked him to do, which is lead the country.

RIVERA: And quickly, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, lead the country.

RIVERA: In 20 years, he will be younger than I am now. I mean, he's got to say something about things. What did juvenile justice?

GUILFOYLE: I think he's very different from the Bush family, from 41 and 43. And I don't think necessarily kind of, like, his ego, his legacy, his desire to still be forward in the spotlight is going to allow him to remain silent. He's going to spend, you know, time trying to raise a billion dollars for his library for perhaps a foundation similar to the Clintons, perhaps become, like, climate czar or something, head globalist. So we'll see. I don't think he's going to be quiet.

RIVERA: "One More Thing" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'll go quickly. I was in Florida over the weekend. I hit lots of places: The Villages, Lakeland, Tampa, Ft. Myers, Miami, thanks for welcoming me. It was the "Let Me Tell You About Jasper" book tour.

That's a guy who started a company called Pop Your Pup. Check that out.

I was on C-SPAN with Peter Slynn (ph). He's a great guy.

Lots of people. That's the guy we're talking about, Kimberly. He brought the dog with him. Her name was Stella, I believe.

And then I got home last night, which was great. Saw Peter. I was like, thank God I'm home, because that was quite a trip. And this was a video upon our arrival. Do we have that? This is, like, how ridiculous -- it's sped up a little bit. But honestly, not that much. That's how crazy it can be.

BOLLING: He's a good boy.

PERINO: It was very fun.

All right. Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: All right. Time for this.

GUILFOYLE: It's so cute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I hate these people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Now, before I roll this, it's not that I hate Gigi Hadid. Don't even know who she is, frankly. She's one of many models I've come into contact with.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, right.

GUTFELD: But she was at the AMAs. I don't hate her. I just hate the people who wrote the material for her. Here is her impression of the future first lady Melania Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIGI HADID, MODEL: This is my Melania Trump impression. I've to get the face right. I love my husband, President Barack Obama. And our children, Sasha and Malia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's spot on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes. So beyond being supremely untalented, you've got to wonder if she would have ever pulled that off that kind of impression with the accent, or any kind of accent, with any other first ladies. Do you think she would have done that? I don't think so. And I predict that the hands off behavior that was reserved for Michelle Obama will not be there for Melania Trump.

And again, this woman is probably an idiot. She just reads a cue card. So I blame the people that wrote the cue cards.

PERINO: It made it look like she was into it, and it was not smart.

GUILFOYLE: It wasn't smart. Melania is prettier and smarter.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: She is.

BOLLING: We can rename them the un-American Music Awards.

GUTFELD: There you go.

BOLLING: I'm all for that.

OK. Tonight 8 p.m., O'Reilly, I'm hosting it again. Big, big show. Now, Austan Goolsbee, we're going to go at it. I love fighting with that guy. He's a great guy. So smart, though.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling.

BOLLING: Lieutenant Colonel Peters. Jon Meacham, presidential historian.

PERINO: Love Jon Meacham.

BOLLING: Katie Pavlich is going to take on Marsh...

GUILFOYLE: We love her.

BOLLING: Marsh, Marsh, Marsh. First name. Mary Anne.

GUILFOYLE: Mary Anne Marsh.

BOLLING: Don't miss it.

GUILFOYLE: They're always good together on "America's Newsroom" a lot.

OK. Shout-out to what's my favorite besides military? Police officers.

BOLLING: Food.

GUILFOYLE: Well, yes. This involves officers and food. What a dream. Shout-out to the Ft. Worth Police Department in Texas. Last week officers were pulling over drivers for minor traffic violations, and instead of writing them a ticket for missing a stop sign or something like that, they were handing over frozen turkeys.

Can you imagine the joy and the relief when you got a turkey instead that you can bring home to your family? So they said that they made 25 turkey traffic stops.

PERINO: I would have had two -- I would have had too much of a heart attack for getting in trouble, I would have had to -- yes.

GUILFOYLE: This was in appreciation to this.

PERINO: Geraldo, you go.

RIVERA: This is inspired by Jasper to see how Dana...

PERINO: Oh, wow.

RIVERA: ... relates to her dog. I don't -- you know, I have little dogs. This is the pet that I hang out with. It's a rescue dove. You know, weddings, funerals, they release the doves. They're not wild animals, though.

GUTFELD: I always wondered where they went. They go to your place.

RIVERA: They crashed in a tree next to my house on the Hudson River near the George Washington Bridge.

GUTFELD: A bird brain.

RIVERA: He really has been there several years.

PERINO: Wow.

RIVERA: My daughter, the 11-year-old, Sol, named him Snowy.

GUILFOYLE: How cute.

RIVERA: I talk to him. I scratch his chest. He recognizes me.

PERINO: Who knew Geraldo was such a softie?

RIVERA: Flies and lands on my head.

PERINO: That's it for us.

GUILFOYLE: He's a bird man.

PERINO: "Special Report" is next.

GUILFOYLE: He's a bird man.

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