This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, new fallout after President-elect Trump calls a meeting with two dozen names from television news to discuss what he calls the dishonest media.
Good evening and welcome "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Just hours ago, the president-elect sidestepping a press pool covering him and posting a video on YouTube discussing his plans for his first day in office. The rare move coming after a strictly off-the-record meeting at Trump Tower with some of the biggest names in media.
Mr. Trump's issues with the press during the campaign are well-known and there are reports of some heated moments in that boardroom today, but in large part the talk was apparently serious and productive.
Just ahead we'll be joined by Kellyanne Conway, senior adviser to the president-elect's transition team, who was in that room, when the meeting took place. We'll speak to Ms. Conway in a moment.
But, first, Trace Gallagher with the details on what happened inside of Trump Tower today.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You know, Megyn, the media was simultaneously accused of lifting Trump up, tearing him down and in the end putting his odds of winning close to zero. Donald Trump responded by using the media as a punching bag, firing up crowds at his rallies by slamming networks and newspapers and taunting certain journalists.
But, today, a 75-minute meeting with the top network brass was described by team Trump as excellent and unprecedented.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: It was an off-the-record meeting. It's very cordial, very productive, genial but it's also very candid and very honest. I mean, from my own perspective, it's great to hit the reset button. It was a long, hard-fought campaign. Donald Trump proved that he animated America, he understood America and now he will be president to all Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And when she says off-the-record, it means the substance of the conversation is off limits. Though sources tell Politico, there was some airing of grievances and that at times the conversations got a bit heated, but remained civil throughout.
And Donald Trump told the networks he was simply looking for fairness. Apparently, there was also progress made with regards to media access to Trump and his growing administration, including the importance of a press pool, you know, those who can follow the president-elect's every step.
Some networks sent journalists. All of the networks sent top executives including Fox News co-presidents Bill Shine and Jack Abernathy. Former Breitbart's new CEO and current chief Trump adviser Steve Bannon also reportedly sat in for part of the meeting. And tomorrow the New York Times has both off and on the record meetings with Trump who now commonly refers to his hometown newspaper as the failed New York Times. But we should note in recent months, Trump has given The Times ample access.
And, finally, as for when Mr. Trump will hold his first news conference? We're told, it will be, quote, "soon."
KELLY: Trace, good to see you.
Joining us now with more, Kellyanne Conway, senior adviser to the presidential transition team.
Kellyanne, great to see you.
CONWAY: Thank you.
KELLY: So what does that mean, fairness, right? Because I've all venture a guess as we saw a lot of those executives going in for the viewers, we saw a bunch of Fox News executives going in there. We saw Jeff Zucker president of CNN standing there, just in case you don't know those faces. So there was all of muckety-mucks from all of the media, cable, broadcast, you name it.
What is fairness to Trump? With President-elect Trump?
CONWAY: Fairness is actually not having presumptive negativity written about you and always assuming the worst about you. And I think that Donald Trump has faced an unprecedented avalanche of critical coverage when he was running and frankly, I think, it in part he owes his victory to that.
There was a backlash against elites, a backlash against those who were telling Americans what is important to them. This statement, this transgression, this issue whereas if you look at the Fox News poll -- CNN, ABC, NBC, everybody was there, "CBS" polls, you see that Americans were very focused on jobs and the economy, health care, immigration, terrorism. I mean, the cues and clues to this election were right in front of him the whole time.
KELLY: Let me ask you then, so that's -- and by the way, the one that sticks out in my mind and has all along was the New York Times piece on Melania Trump. Melania Trump, his spouse -- his spouse, right? She's not a candidate. Calling her a mannequin and a trophy wife, which if anybody had ever said that about any -- Michelle Obama was a lawyer. But Melania Trump has been a successful businesswoman. She speaks several languages. A mannequin and a trophy wife and it was just -- fine, they were allowed to say that about her.
So that's just --
CONWAY: It's as if the evidence have --
KELLY: The respect goes both ways, right?
CONWAY: It does.
KELLY: But let me ask you about that because even though the media did that to him, right, in his view, and obviously it's true in many cases that they went after him with abandon, the public did see through it. So has he learned anything from that? You know, can we expect him to have a thicker skin as president given that he made it, notwithstanding that kind of coverage?
CONWAY: Well, he does have a thick skin, frankly, as someone who works very closely within, that was in that room today, directly beside him. I will say this though. That's not what the meeting was about.
The meeting is not about settling scores and avenging grievances and bringing up, you know, different types of coverage. I think it's saying really that Donald Trump was the one person in the room who got it right, who understood America and reflected back to them what their aspirations and their fears and their frustrations were.
And now everybody has to work together. They are the fourth estate. Incredibly powerful. Anchors like you are incredibly powerful in terms of distilling the information and reporting the news and maybe some opinion to the public, Megyn, in a fair handed and complete way. And he will be the president of the United States.
We can have mutual --
KELLY: He knows he's going to get hit, though. He's the president.
CONWAY: That's fine.
KELLY: I mean, he's going to get hit. He's going to get hit often. He's not going to like it. That's the way it works, you know.
CONWAY: That's the way it works, but it should be relevant to the job and it should be relevant to the voters. And I have to tell you as someone who was like a chief spokeswoman for him and his campaign manager, it wasn't always relevant to what Americans out there were telling us at rallies or telling pollsters behind the scenes concerning them. But I actually having sat there, I thought it was very cordial, very genial. I thought it was very productive.
KELLY: So if we cover him the same way, let's say "The Kelly File," we cover him the same way we cover Barack Obama, the same amount, the same skeptical eye, he's going to be fine with that.
CONWAY: Yes. But can you say that about everyone that's going to cover him? I mean, you had journalist saying during the campaign, Megyn, that Donald Trump compels them to suspend all objective standards of journalism.
KELLY: Yes, correct.
KELLY: We had some of those journalists on this program and pressed them about the inappropriateness of that.
CONWAY: That's right. It's completely inappropriate. It's not journalism. It's opinion.
KELLY: That's right.
CONWAY: And it sort of stop him at all costs.
KELLY: That's right. If you want to take off your journalist outfit and declare yourself a pundit and go argue against him, go for it. But you can't wear both hats.
CONWAY: Right. And even the coverage over the last two weeks since he did win the election, it's been a combination of a few people wanting to cover his next 100 days. You know, what he wants to do in office. He's been very clear about 100 day plan is. Your viewers can go pull it off on our Web site right now as 100 day plan for them to see.
But then you have others still fighting the last war. You have other people on TV, a lot of pundits on TV, frankly, everywhere, really just trying to deny him and delegitimize him --
KELLY: (INAUDIBLE) ends with acceptance. So they'll get there eventually.
All right, I want a couple other things I have to ask you about.
CONWAY: What was this big sound bite, though, at the time? It was, "Will Donald Trump and his supporters accept the election results." He won.
KELLY: That's right.
CONWAY: And so many other people are saying #NotMyPresident.
KELLY: I want to move on from the media.
Secretary of state, now they're saying it's between Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani, which has a lot of our viewers saying, how could Mitt Romney even be in the running given how loyal Rudy Giuliani was to Mr. Trump. And even if you might like Mitt Romney, he was not loyal and in fact he savaged Trump during the primary.
CONWAY: But the question is are you loyal to the agenda that Mr. Trump, that President-elect Trump has put forward in terms of his view of the world and the person to which the secretary of state would function.
But I think there's a longer shortlist for that particular position and others.
KELLY: It's not just those two?
CONWAY: No. Highly qualified men and women who have come to Bedminster, come to Trump Tower. People of different races and ethnicities. All political persuasions. People who have different backgrounds, public sector, private sector. Most of them will not be in the cabinet. Most of them are coming because they love the country and they want to share what their work on a particular issue or a particular success story has been.
KELLY: Well, they spoke well, both men, that the meeting took place.
What about you, Kellyanne. Have you been offered a cabinet post?
KELLY: No, it's not. You've been one of his most successful advisers, his most successful. Certainly the highest profile women associated with his campaign. Has he offered you a position?
CONWAY: He has offered me a position. Very early on. In fact, the election night or the wee hours of Wednesday, he did. And --
KELLY: Is it a senior position?
CONWAY: It is. And I am very humbled by that. I think that it's everybody's dream to serve their nation at the highest level if they can. But I have four small children and I need to balance all types of personal and professional considerations. But I'm deciding where I am best for this president-elect and this vice president-elect in due course. But there are many qualified men and women who can serve him at the highest levels.
I do want to say, though, in terms of the people who are coming to see him, how thrilling it was to turn the corner and see people from entertainment, from the private sector, people of different races and ethnicities. The highest ranking woman in the Congress, Cathy McMorris Rodgers who has given birth three times while she's been in Congress. That's pretty impressive. We had Representative Tulsi Gabbard from Hawaii there today who is a Democrat.
KELLY: What about Sarah Palin. Donald Trump had suggested she would be in his cabinet if he won. Is she going to be in?
CONWAY: I haven't seen her. I know that they are close. And that she's been a great loyal friend and advisor to him throughout the campaign. But I haven't seen her as part of the cabinet mix. But that doesn't mean that she's not.
Look, we're going to take the counsel of many different people, whether you have a official position or not. Your opinion, your advice -- this guy is a world class listener and learner. And he's somebody I've seen behind the desk as a businessman, as a presidential candidate and now president-elect.
I see the same process where he assesses different consequences and possibilities. And, you know, he's in command and control, but he really does take counsel from many different people.
KELLY: Question for you about Steve Bannon, senior adviser to Mr. Trump, who is from "Breitbart" originally.
He's quoted as lamenting the fact that he predicts a "Fox News" that will be more centrist in the future. He came after our boss Rupert Murdoch in some unflattering terms.
I question whether -- does he have a problem with a centrist news organization, with centrist news anchors? I mean, why would he object to that?
CONWAY: I think his objection would be to biased and unfair, which is not the way he characterize "Fox News" to me, anyway. But we're all looking for objective coverage. And The idea that some people think they're being objective in the mainstream media when they clearly have not been, when they allow people to refer to President-elect Trump in ways that are legally charged, that if you actually said that about him, in a court of law, you wouldn't be able to.
KELLY: No, he has to be respected.
KELLY: He's earned the respect of all.
CONWAY: He has. Thank you. And, you know, Steve Bannon is a brilliant tactician. He was -- I call him the general of our campaign. It's true.
KELLY: He, too, needs to be a unifier, isn't he?
CONWAY: By the way, he had a receiving line today when the mainstream media --
KELLY: Kellyanne, he, too, needs to be a unifier, doesn't he, as the senior adviser.
CONWAY: But he is. I mean, Megyn, we unified, we looked past and we're impervious to the constant criticism of naysayer. Do you know what was said about all of us? We're stupid. You'll never work in a town again. How do you look your four children in the eye? You've sold your soul. You know, it went on and on.
KELLY: I know. I've seen that happens to you directly.
CONWAY: It went on and on and on. And when you're focused at the task at hand and you believe in the man who is running for president and the man who is running for vice president, it steels you in a way --
KELLY: Right. But then to the victor go the spoils. You rise up by lifting, you know, each other up. You win. And so isn't this the time to be magnanimous like Donald Trump is and not to be, you know, predicting or projecting on to the press how they must cover him. They're going to cover him how they see fit.
CONWAY: We just want it to be objective and fair.
KELLY: Consistent with what they learn. It's an ethical standard.
CONWAY: We want it to be -- yes. And, Megyn, we want it to be a post- election coverage of the president-elect. That's the point here. The campaign is over. The people have spoken. And this man busted through a blue wall that nobody expected. He won states like Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania, which should have been Hillary Clinton's the whole time. And they were his because of the message, because of the way he's a master communicator and a master connecter.
KELLY: But we don't get paid to cheer lead for him. We're just paid to cover him.
CONWAY: Yes. I don't expect anybody here to cheerlead for him. I expect us to have platforms like this, where we can fairly and effectively and respectfully come in and state the case on his behalf.
CONWAY: Thank you.
CONWAY: Thanks for having me.
KELLY: Great to see you.
Also, tonight, the critics are zeroing in on Senator Jeff Sessions as the President-elect's pick for attorney general.
And up next, Sheriff David Clarke and Eric Guster take up both sides of this fierce fight.
And then, there has been 24 hours of backlash after this fashion model decided it would be appropriate to mock our next First Lady, Melania Trump, on a major network broadcast her accent, her intellect apparently.
And, tonight, actor and comedian Tim Allen is with us as Hollywood and the White House appear headed for a showdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIGI HADID, MODEL: I love my husband, President Barack Obama, and our children, Sasha and Malia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER-ELECT: He's going to need a very thorough vetting. Many of those statements, they're old but they're still troubling. And the idea that Jeff Sessions is -- just because he's a senator, he should get through without a series of very tough questions, particularly given those early things, no way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: That was Senate minority leader-elect Chuck Schumer making news by vowing to, quote, "thoroughly vet" Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions. The newly-selected nominee for attorney general is facing charges of racism as new controversy surfaces over comments he reportedly made over 30 years ago.
In just a moment, we'll have reaction from Sheriff David Clarke and Attorney Eric Guster, but first we go to Trace Gallagher, who is in our West Coast newsroom with this one.
GALLAGHER: Megyn, Jeff Sessions has now been in the U.S. Senate for 20 years. But in 1986 as the Ronald Reagan nominee for federal judge, Sessions spent 21 hours in a Senate confirmation hearing that was replete with allegations of racism, including from a former black assistant U.S. attorney who testified that Sessions routinely called him boy and joked that he supported the KKK before he found out they smoke marijuana.
At the time, Sessions called the KKK allegation ludicrous and said using the term boy for a black man was reprehensible. But in the end, the Senate Judiciary Committee rejected him. And as you just heard, incoming Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer says Jeff Sessions will be vetted again.
To this day, Sessions calls the allegations heartbreaking and his supporters say it should be noted that Jeff Sessions spearheaded the effort to award the congressional medal, the nation's highest civilian honor, to those who marched to Selma for civil rights 50 years ago.
And listen to William Smith, who was hired by Jeff Sessions as the first African-American chief counsel on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM SMITH, FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN CHIEF COUNSEL, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: If you look at Jeff Sessions' history. He did prosecute the head of the KKK. He made sure that he received the death penalty. He desegregated the schools in Alabama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Others are also lining up to support Sessions, but there are those who oppose him and accuse him 30 years later.
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Joining me now with more, Sheriff David Clarke of the Milwaukee County sheriff's office and Eric Guster, attorney and political commentator.
Great to see you both.
Eric, let me start with you. What's the problem with Senator Jeff Sessions. You heard the Trace report. Lay it out.
ERIC GUSTER, FOX NEWS POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There are several problems with Senator Sessions. That's why it's very important that he is vetted. Now I'm not calling him a racist, but a lot of people feel that he is. However.
KELLY: Based on what?
GUSTER: .that is what vetting is all about.
Excuse me, Megyn?
KELLY: Based on what?
GUSTER: Based on his history. When you have a person who works with someone and call them boy or who allegedly supported the KKK --
KELLY: Which he denies.
GUSTER: Which he denied, and that's the purpose of vetting. That's why it's very important that through this process, for him to become attorney general, that he's properly vetted, that people who have testimony that could go to his character are brought forth and under sworn testimony and told exactly what they are saying of what he may have said.
So, Megyn, he would be the attorney general, the person in charge of civil rights litigation for this nation. That's why he must be one that is fair for everyone. That is not -- has any racial bias or racial-type of leaning and he's very fair to everyone. That's why he would be everyone's AG.
KELLY: Sheriff Clarke, anything wrong with vetting?
DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Oh, no, nothing wrong with vetting, but let's be fair about this.
Look, President-elect Donald Trump could not have found a more fair, qualified, committed to the rule of law and equal justice under law for everybody than Senator Sessions.
I got to know Senator Sessions. I've worked with him on several issues on Capitol Hill. Look, I wasn't around in '86, but most of those allegations have been discredited up to now. And this man, this fine man, I'm tired of people having their character assassinated by this, almost like a sport that the left likes to play.
When you can't beat somebody on the merits, just throw the "R" word up there and then watch them squim and squirm, and then try to get out of it.
There is only three things in life that just the mere allegation of could be career destroying. It's to be accused of being a domestic abuser when it's not true, a child molester when it's not true or a racist when it's not true.
Look, Senator Sessions will be confirmed. It will be tough. But there's nothing wrong with that. But I get tired of this "R" word being bandied about. Like I said it's as if it's some sort of sport. Jeff Sessions, Senator Jeff Sessions is not a racist.
KELLY: Eric, why would he put the head of the KKK in jail? Why would he go after the head of the KKK and do all the things you heard outlined in the Trace Gallagher report if he were some racist?
CLARKE: Right. And not only that --
GUSTER: She asked me the question, sheriff.
KELLY: Hold on, sheriff. That one was for Eric.
KELLY: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold.
CLARKE: Desegregate the schools in Alabama. He spent the last 30 years -- look, nobody is perfect. If he made some statements, he called somebody boy --
KELLY: Don't worry, Eric, we'll get to you.
CLARKE: Megyn, I refer to myself as a -- when somebody says, well, sheriff, where are you from, I'd tell them -- I'd tell them I'm a Milwaukee boy, OK. If some people are offended by that, I get that but that's being hypersensitive.
GUSTER: Oh my God, just because he did his job --
KELLY: OK, let Eric respond.
GUSTER: Just because he did his job --
KELLY: I don't know if Sheriff Clarke can hear me, but let's give Eric the floor now. It's his turn.
Go ahead, Eric.
GUSTER: Just because, just because he did his job, it does not mean he has a lack of -- just because he did his job that one time does not mean that he is not a racist. That is why he needs to be vetted. I'm not saying that he's a racist. However, he does have a history of not doing things that are fair to all people. That is why so many on the left want --
KELLY: Like what?
GUSTER: .want to make sure that he is properly vetted, that people are brought in --
KELLY: What specifically? Don't just issue broad statements like that. What specifically has he done that's not fair to people?
GUSTER: He put voter -- he put several -- he prosecuted several people who were registering voters, black voters and claimed that they were doing things illegally, which is not true.
He also -- I'm from Alabama, so I know the history of Jeff Sessions and I'm aware of the things that he was accused of 30 years ago. And just because something happened 30 years ago does not mean that it's too far away, that it's not relevant now. Because this is the attorney general position, where he is in charge of civil rights litigation and we have such a broad, a broad lane of racial injustices happening that we need help.
KELLY: Well, we'll find out because judges and juries would have had their say in those cases, and if there were convictions, you know, then the civil process, or the criminal process would have played out.
We're going to look into all of that as he goes forward with this confirmation hearing. Gentleman, good to see you both.
So we're also hearing suggestions now, a political payback, as reports surface that a top Intel adviser to President Obama may be on the chopping block after he met with President-elect Trump.
Plus, this fashion model thought it would be hilarious to mock our next first lady Melania Trump and her accent and apparently her, well, intellect in front of millions of Americans last night. Actor Tim Allen is just ahead on how Hollywood is handling the president-elect and the first lady coming in.
Plus, Karl Rove and Mollie Lippie will join us on the political fallout from this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HADID: This is my Melania Trump impression. I got to get the face right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HADI: I love my husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, we've now seen 24 hours of backlash after fashion model Gigi Hadid mocked soon-to-be First Lady Melania Trump at the "American Music Awards" last night.
In moments we'll speak with actor Tim Allen about the increasingly angry divide between Hollywood, Washington and much of America. See, he gets it. But, first, we're going to check in with Adam Housley on exactly what went down and how the network and the awards show are now defending themselves.
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Megyn, we've seen a lot of Hollywood backlash as you might imagine in the last two weeks since the election and it's very clear the election really isn't going over so well in tinsel town.
The most recent, last night at "American Music Awards," where the President-elect Trump was, of course, a hot topic as to be expected. But what was not really expected and many say have crossed the line was the surprising way co-host and model Gigi Hadid mocked future First Lady Melania Trump.
Usually spouses and children of presidents are off limits, we know that, but not with Hadid at the AMAs. She had to pout her lips, she had a fake accent and what many say are upset on social media and the public because Hadid admitted that she worked all week to get her, quote, "face right." And remember the future first lady is an immigrant herself.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HADID: I love my husband.
President Barack Obama. And our children, Sasha and Malia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOUSLEY: Not to be outdone, as you might imagine, there were other acts there. The variaband Green Day, who during their performance of the song Revolution Radio stunned really everyone in the crowd, those watching by leading an impromptu chant of "no Trump, no KKK, no fascist USA." It is also being heard during protest in places like Portland and Oakland and finally though was other stuff as we mentioned as well, Chrissy Teigen the model, when introducing husband John Legend was bleeped for using profanity in explaining her distain for the election. She also has a dress malfunction which actually caught most of the attention, but the introduction of Legend, can't be ignored. So as you can see, Megyn we cover a lot out there in Hollywood and right now it's not going so well when it comes to this election.
KELLY: Thank you, Adam. So is there something that Hollywood doesn't get about America?
Joining me now, 2017 people's choice award nominee, Tim Allen, yes, there we go, yes. Who stars in ABC's - thank you Jess, better late than never, star in the ABC "Last man standing" which airs on Fridays at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Look this is your chance. Show them the jacket. Look at the promo ABC. Whatever you're paying him is not enough. ABC, 8:00 pm, there we go, got it.
TIM ALLEN, ABC STAR OF "LAST MAN STANDING": That is what it's all about. I got to go.
KELLY: So Gigi Hadid, mocking our next first lady, appropriate or not?
ALLEN: I don't think it's appropriate in that venue. But again it's -- I'm not a spokesman for Hollywood. I am a comedian.
ALLEN: I get to tour around the country, I do comedy and I do a show that leans, we have a point of view.
KELLY: Your character is a conservative?
ALLEN: Well in point of view, but it's written by liberals. We have liberal staff, we have conservative.
KELLY: That goes without saying. That is redundant.
ALLEN: We have a sense of humor about ourselves and there's a point of view. There is a place to do it. What I think is, what I find odd in Hollywood is they didn't like Trump, because he is a bully, but if you side or if you had any kind of incline that you are for Trump you got bullied for doing that. It gets a little hypocritical to me, is that you can now bully people -- you're always on the defense with this. But mostly what I'm finding is there's no source material for comedians. If I want to find a joke on the show, we go upriver to find the joke. He was against homosexuals somehow.
KELLY: Donald Trump?
ALLEN: Whoever said that? Didn't he wave the flag at the convention, the LGBT flag? And I said that was an unusual.
KELLY: They've got a beef with Mike Pence on that, but Donald Trump, no.
ALLEN: Yeah but a close associate for him I don't see it. And so I came to a joke about it, I feel like we're playing a game, telephone, did you play that in high school where you say something at the beginning. That is what's happening. It's only funny to me, because I am a comedian, I can do this. But it is very difficult in Hollywood to find anybody a source material that would.
KELLY: How are you surviving there as somebody who is, you know on TV as a conservative, ousted yourself as open to Donald Trump's ideas. Because there are a lot of actors, I know many of them who are part of the Hollywood conservative underground and they do not reveal that they lean right at all.
ALLEN: I'm really an anarchist. That is how I look at this. I don't let anybody tell me what to do, period.
KELLY: People still object to that. They find out you support Trump at all, it's like you smell bad.
ALLEN: Believe me. They're not even discussions. You get bullied into a position. I don't want to defend the guy, he says stupid stuff. To me sometimes he acts like a new talent comedian. Have you ever been to a new talent show comedy? There's this guys that have great material that have very, very bad comedy timing. And he's got terrible timing.
KELLY: What do you mean?
ALLEN: He sells stuff that could be, George Lopez, he says a joke about that he was against the wall. Years ago on stage it was real funny about we'll build a wall, forgive me George, but the Mexicans will have to build it. That was the joke. Donald says it, they're expectant.
KELLY: President-elect Trump.
ALLEN: That would be quite a word wouldn't it?
ALLEN: But he sometimes he doesn't say things -- I give him the benefit of the doubt. A lot of comedians we watch and go, if you just gap that a little bit, it might have been funny. He may in fact be the guy wants to be funnier than he is. That doesn't matter. I look at it a larger view. I don't like people telling me what to do. If you think this government looks good the size it is, and one of this guys, just make it smaller. Who won that - who wants to make it smaller? I'm not so sure that he does, because he has a long line of being a Democrat. But at least he has a shot at making things smaller. I don't know physical realist.
KELLY: What about all of the infrastructure spending he wants to do? That he doesn't want to cut entitlement of the Obama.
ALLEN: Then you get these little red flags go up. I'm not sure what exactly has happened. Certainly for a Democrat you should be happy about this. He is not that - some of those spending.
KELLY: They could have ended up with Ted Cruz.
ALLEN: Don't start that.
KELLY: You are talking about social issues. I mean they would have liked him a lot less than Donald Trump.
ALLEN: Somebody will say he looked like he had a milk allergy, the way he talks. He is got to take some antibiotics or something. Do you see that he had some kind of do one of these things?
KELLY: Poor Ted. All right, I got to leave it at that. Tim Allen, the show is actually very popular, "Last man standing." Up for People's Choice awards, you've got our vote, better late than never.
ALLEN: Wait. Can I give you a joke?
KELLY: Yeah, great.
ALLEN: This is what I said L.A. came up with safe space for people that voted for Trump. They're in that area, they want a safe space, and they are calling it Texas. Thank you. I like it. Somebody got it.
KELLY: Tim Allen, everybody. Thank you, sir.
Joining us now with more, Karl Rove, Fox News Contributor and Former Senior Adviser and Assistant to President George W. Bush and Mo Elleithee, Fox News Contributor and Executive Director of Georgetown's Institute of Politics and Public Service, great to see you both, guys, Karl your thoughts on the backlash we are seeing now from Hollywood corners, entertainment corners. .
KARL ROVE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: First of all, thanks for having Mo and Karl on after Tim Allen.
KELLY: He was your warm-up act.
MOE ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY INSTITUTE OF POLITICS: I'm with you, Karl.
ROVE: Yeah. Look, I think it is understandable. Hollywood has been tone deaf in this election. They're angry that the election outcome has been heated and it's led them to do stupid things. Look, the first lady ought to be off limits. Maybe it took Ms. Hadid a week in order to prepare that. But if that is the best she could do after a week, I recommend she find another thing other than trying to be a comedian. Maybe she ought to stick to fashion.
KELLY: Weren't we told, Mo by the Democrats for the past eight years that the first lady is off limits?
ELLEITHEE: Yeah, look. I didn't find that joke very tasteful. But let me say this. Karl is right, that people are angry. There's been a lot of anger now for quite some time on both sides. I think some of the stuff that we saw last night was inappropriate just as I think a lot of the stuff that we saw being directed towards President Obama and Secretary Clinton during the campaign at Trump rallies was not appropriate. Both sides need to just calm down and just need to cool off for a little bit.
KELLY: Meanwhile, what do you make of what happened to Vice President Elect Mike Pence at "Hamilton" over the weekend where the actor who plays Aaron Burr, Brandon Victor Dixon had a message for Mike Pence that Mike Pence actually took like a real gentleman and took the high road in response to it. But there's been a lot of backlash, Karl on whether this actor was in any position to lecture the vice president elect while he was there observing the show.
ROVE: Yeah, look, a change of a few words it could had been appropriate, it rather than saying we're alarmed and anxious that you're not going to defend our inalienable rights, reference to the declaration of pledge of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, if he had simply said, look, we hope for your administration's success in upholding our inalienable rights. And rather than saying we hope to come in here tonight, inspired you, to uphold our American values and to work on all our behalf, what if he said, we hope that you are inspired by what you heard tonight and as you work on behalf of all Americans in our country. The intimation right from the get- go was you're against us, you're not going to even uphold our fundamental constitutional rights and we're hoping that you're smart enough to finally figure it out during this show on Broadway.
KELLY: What he said is we are the diverse America who is alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our parents or children to defends us and uphold our inalienable rights and goes on from there. But Mo, the Hamilton actor who lectured our Vice President-Elect has called women hoes on twitter. There was a woman that tweeted out, remember when NFL players would just play the game, bang, mad, hoes and collect their checks, guess that is not enough anymore. He responded saying. The problem is hoes aren't what they used to be. If hoe game would step up, cat wouldn't get distracted. So there is already questions being race about whether this particular actor was in the best position to lecture Vice Presidential-Elect Mike Pence on unity?
ELLEITHEE: Yeah. And I haven't seen those tweets. But let me say this, just about the broad issues of what happen in Hamilton. The same people that are -- I think Karl made some valid points there. There is an inalienable right to free speech and he had a platform and he used it. I thought the way he did it, I think the way Hamilton cat was far more respectful than what we saw last night and I though Mike Pence's response was exactly right.
KELLY: Very dignified.
ELLEITHEE: The point is there are a lot of people out there who feel anxious, who feel afraid. And I think Donald Trump's tweet storm attacking "Hamilton" didn't do anything to alleviate that.
KELLY: Let me ask you this.
ELLEITHEE: But I think what he could have done was simply say, you know what, people of Hamilton, I will work every day to make sure that I allay that concern and prove to you that I will work for everyone.
KELLY: Right. Because President-Elect Trump is supposed to be against political correctness and against safe spaces and you know, he believes in the right to offend. And that, you know this goes with that. But let me ask you this, Mo. Where you equally did you also have -- did you also defend the free speech rights of Dr. Ben Carson when he stood up at the National Prayer Breakfast and called out President Barack Obama to his face, because we saw a lot on the left in that situation, were outraged, that he spoke truth the power in a setting that wasn't supposed to be political, but now when the actor from "Hamilton" does it, you think the guy is in line for a Nobel peace prize. They love it, when somebody does this to a Republican, they didn't really love it when Ben Carson did it to the sitting president.
ELLEITHEE: Yeah, my problem with Ben Carson, it's always been the substance of what he says. We have a fundamental disagreement on the policy. You know, for people to speak up, that is one thing. Do it respectful.
KELLY: Ben Carson was respectful. He was respectful, but he got savaged, I will give to Karl, he got savage by many on the left for having the nerve to say things like the debt is too big and we need to work on Obamacare, right in front of the President. In a setting, they said it was inappropriate and not meant for political speeches just like Hamilton.
ROVE: Well, look, he didn't say one thing. He didn't question President Obama's fundamental commitment to the declaration of independence and the promise of the constitution which is exactly what Mr. Dickson did on Saturday night by saying we're alarmed and anxious you will not even uphold our inalienable rights. So, yeah, there was a difference. You're right. The left trashed Ben Carson.
ELLEITHEE: Karl, the right has been saying that about Barack Obama for years. I mean, let's be fair here.
KELLY: Well, and the right also defended Ben Carson and now they're savaging the "Hamilton" actor. So there is hypocrisy on both sides. By the way, I challenge you viewers at home to say the word inalienable. Say it back, inalienable, it is not easy.
ROVE: Three times, fast.
ELLEITHEE: Right, exactly.
KELLY: Great to see you both.
Growing outrage tonight, after the family of a fallen American hero is booed by first class passengers on a flight out of California. Now this father in mourning is speaking out. Plus one day after the head of the NSA meets with President-Elect Trump, we heard suggestions he could soon be booted from his current role in the Obama administration. Former CIA Director James Woolsey and Secretary of Defense Adviser Marc Jacobson are next.
KELLY: Developing tonight, a report from the Washington post suggests that President Obama is being advised to remove Mike Rogers from his post as head of the NSA or National Security Agency. That report comes after a high profile meeting between Admiral Rogers and President-Elect Donald Trump. And it has some questioning whether this is a case of political payback. James Woolsey is the Former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. And Dr. Mark Jacobson is the Former Senior Adviser to the Secretary of Defense, great to see you both.
JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: Good to be with you.
KELLY: How is this a case of payback when the meeting he had with Donald Trump just happened and the recommendation to boot him apparently happened a month prior to that, Director Woolsey?
WOOLSEY: I don't know. I don't understand that rationale either. I think that what's really going on here have the old administration going out January 20th in which the Secretary of Defense and head of the overall intelligence chairman of the board, Jim Clapper essentially have been very critical of Admiral Rogers and then people, including members of congress who will be here after January 20th have some of been quite supportive. And this is all taking place in the context of the huge hacks into the National Security Agency, supposedly one of our most secure institutions. Maybe most secure. One was Snowden, but then more recently have been two more.
KELLY: Including on his watch. That is the problem.
WOOLSEY: yeah, and a lot of people are really bothered by this. I mean the office of personnel management let me know that my background files have been hacked and.
WOOLSEY: And I tried -- I'm filling out the form to replace them. A friend of mine on the same panel I was on, this is an advisory panel for the Defense Department. A friend of mine had to fill out 187 pages. And whatever the answer is to having these losses that we've had in the hacks, it's not 187 pages to fill out your form.
KELLY: Dr. Jacobson, do you see this guy as a controversial figure for Trump's administration?
MARK JACOBSON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well I think Jim is right in the sense that there are a lot of bad things that happened under Rogers' watch. He was expected to really cramp down on a security situation in the post Snowden era. But what concerns me though is that Rogers thought something was slightly wrong, in the sense that he decided to take personal leave to go see President Trump. As I think many people know Rogers has a long relationship with Mike Flynn, the incoming National Security Adviser, who is close with Trump. And I think it sets really the wrong tone.
KELLY: Wasn't it like a day? Who cares?
JACOBSON: Well again, I think that this happened -- at least the reasons for the recommendation that Rogers be removed happened long before. But there's something amiss here. I think you're seeing the Trump team consciously going after generals and admirals who have disagreements with the Obama administration.
KELLY: Yeah, well they are saying that, fire this, he was put on notice by his two boss's Ash carter and Jim Clapper, that he needed to improve his leadership style, heed a been aloof, he had been frequently absent, he doesn't listen to staff, but those are the allegations against him. So we'll decide whether President-Elect Donald Trump thinks he is appropriate to head up the NSA. Guys, thank you both so much for being here. I appreciate it.
The story behind why some airline passengers decided to boo the gold star family who just lost their son in Afghanistan.
KELLY: Building tonight, growing outrage over reports that a gold star family on their way to meet their son's remains was booed by some first class passengers. Trace Gallagher live in the west coast bureau with the details, Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Stuart Perry and his wife and daughter were flying to Dover Air force base in Delaware to accept their son's remains. The initial flight went from Sacramento to Philly with a stop in Phoenix. But for mechanical reasons the flight was 45 minutes late to Phoenix. And the stewards were in danger of missing their connection. So the captain asked passengers to remain seated so that, "a special military family could leave the plane first." That is when the passengers in first class started booing, saying I paid first class for this? Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hear the reaction of a flight being delayed because of a gold star family and if first class cabin booing that was really upsetting and it made us cry some more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Mr. Perry himself, a Marine Corps vet said some passengers in coach knew they were gold star, because they offered condolences but he can't say for sure if the first class passengers were aware, which of course doesn't make it any less egregious. The airline says "American was honored to have this family on board. We will always make every possible effort to ensure a smooth journey in such difficult circumstances." Sergeant John Perry was killed along with three other Americans during a suicide attack, inside the bag room Air based in Afghanistan. Sergeant Perry was reportedly able to stop the bomber before he blew up those watching a 5k race which could have killed dozens. Sergeant Perry was a hero. His family did not get heroic treatment, Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you, our condolences to them. Wow. We'll be right back.
KELLY: And don't forget to pick up your copy of my new book "Settle for More" it is already a best seller. Describe by Booklist is a winning memoir, Entertainment Weekly calls it a prime run on the value of hard work, self-esteem and perseverance. Hope you like it. "Settle for More." See you tomorrow.
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