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The Five

Trump transition team looks to fill key roles

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 15, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Melissa Francis, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 o'clock in New York City. This is "The Five."

It's been one week since the election and the Trump team is moving quickly to form a new administration. The president-elect spent the day with the head of his transition team, vice president-elect Mike Pence over at Trump Tower. They're narrowing down the list of potential candidates for the cabinet and senior White House positions. Reince Priebus and Stephen Bannon have been named for posts. Could one of these three be next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GUILIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: First of all, I won't be attorney general.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You won't be?

GUILIANI: Good. I don't have to decide that. Thank, God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. The choice of secretary of state in a Trump administration is down to Rudy Giuliani and John Bolton.

GUILIANI: John would be a very good choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anybody better?

GUILIANI: Maybe me, I don't know.

(LAUGHTER)

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I want to be the general planner looking over the next eight years and trying to design how we fundamentally reshape the government. That's a very broad job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This might be the time Laura Ingraham does say anything, is named press secretary to the future president.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You never know. It's wonderful to be considered. I have known Donald for a long time. And I know most of the guys who are going to be in the White House with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Well, you want to know, right? You know who might know? Campaign Carl because he always has the inside scoop, and he joins us now in studio today. We'll keep him here until we get all the answers. Carl, welcome. You're a captive of The Five now.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: So we want to know everything. There is a lot of speculation. You saw, Laura Ingraham was on this morning. Kellyanne Conway is making the rounds. Rudy Giuliani. What's going to happen? Give us the facts and your predictions.

CARL CAMERON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: At the end of the 70 days or whatever that left of this, there will be a foundation for a government. But with the 3700 to 4500 jobs that have to be filled, there are going to be probably hundreds that won't be filled. It's quite common in fact for a year or two to pass before all of the federal posts get filled. And sometimes, they don't. It's been described as a knife fight. A little while ago, someone called it a Game of Thrones.

GUILFOYLE: Fun.

CAMERON: This is like people who have never been in transition before.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

CAMERON: You might think about a show that the president-elect once hosted called The Apprentice, where he encouraged people to fight, where he encouraged them to compete for their jobs. And there is an awful lot of lot of people who want a few number of top White House administrative and cabinet level positions. And so, they are jockeying. But to be sort of hyperbolic about it, this is a transition. They are struggling to put together a government. They have a limited amount of time, a limited amount of people, and an unlimited amount of Americans...

(CROSSTALK)

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Carl, I think the knife fight illusion really stems from the fact that Chris Christie was pushed out. And Pence was put in placed. And that's part of the delay because Christie had agreements with various departments of the government to share information.

CAMERON: Right.

WILLIAMS: He's gone so that agreement is now void. But I think it's so interesting that for instance, Mike Rogers, former head of intelligence in the House.

CAMERON: Uh-huh.

WILLIAMS: A Republican, a good Republican from Michigan. He's no longer part of the deal because he was a Christie guy. So that's why people say a knife fight.

CAMERON: There's a little bit more to it than that. A lot of conservatives thought that when Rogers was in charge of the Benghazi investigation, he wasn't as aggressive as he might have been. Trey Gowdy, for instance, who was his successor.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CAMERON: . has been critical of him. And so, yes, there is that component of it. The aspect of Chris Christie having signed the agreement for the transition campaign to share information back and forth with the Obama administration, Christie's signature was on it. Christie is no longer on the transition. And so, they need to put the new guy's signature on it. And Pence will tomorrow go to Washington to meet with congressional leaders, and sign the document. And that part of the exchange of information will go forward.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you really think -- what's the back story with Chris Christie? The president-elect thought he was perhaps abandoned by him in the past. I have heard some of that.

CAMERON: Well, there were a number of reasons. For one thing, the Bridgegate issue is troubling to some of the folks in Trump Tower, not all of them. But that's an obstacle. There was some concern that the transition committee had become way too isolated from the rest of the campaign when the campaign was under way. And two and a half weeks before the election, Christie was ordered by Donald Trump to take his 150 member staff of the transition plan, and cut it in half, and send about 75 people back to the campaign trail because what good is the transition if you lose. And ultimately, he did. He won.

MELISSA FRANCIS, CO-HOST: It seems you mentioned The Apprentice, though, it seems like Trump is a pretty good hirer and firer. Like we are saying kiddingly and making fun of him, but if you look at the campaign, Lewandowski, when he need somebody who is really scrappy, you know, went to Manafort when he had to do the RNC. And at the end, switched to Kellyanne who was fantastic. It is not surprising that he then put Pence right on the day he needed someone who is very serious, who is going to do all the work. Isn't there a positive thing to read into this as well?

CAMERON: Oh, sure. What Donald Trump the president-elect is trying to do is get his government the best possible government completed in 70 days. Nobody in their right mind would like to try to put together the U.S. government in 70 days, but that's our system.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I think the press just likes to say knife fight because it is trying to make the Trump team seem like a bunch of barbarians.

CAMERON: Sure.

WATTERS: . and a bunch of immature rubes that you know are slitting each other's throat.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: But some of that's actually coming from the people who are going in and out of Trump Tower.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: You're not just like handing up a resume?

CAMERON: No. It was like -- they are like oh, my God, it was a knife fight. I was just in there and so and so is going after so and so. They're competing for these things. And interesting choice of words, but actually, what this is, is a transition. Knife fights, people get hurt. This one, you may not get a job, but you're not getting stuck in the neck with a blade.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Carl, let's get down to the most important question here, OK. Stop beating around the bush. There is a person here not at the table, Eric Bolling.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Did you see him at the Trump Tower? And what is he up for?

WATTERS: Is he being vetted now?

CAMERON: Didn't see him, but wouldn't be surprised. There are a lot of doors. So they do sneak in around us. We are stuck across the street.

GUILFOYLE: Monies are.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: All the money.

WATTERS: I just want to say, you know, I just want to put rumors to rest. I will not be the press secretary for the Trump administration. I cannot take the pay cut.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

WATTERS: But, you know, I have heard two names about that. I heard Kellyanne Conway, she's very deft and she can pivot. And she's graceful and she's beautiful. And that's one approach. But then, Laura Ingraham, I mean, she just would be out there laying siege to the media on a daily basis. It would be like must see TV. And that's just maybe probably the continuing strategy of Trump's war against the media, like he could to mobilize the base and keep the media on defense.

CAMERON: But if Trump were to pick somebody who would be well acquainted with those of us in the fourth estate that is going to blow up in his face.

WATTERS: Yeah.

CAMERON: As soon as whoever is behind the podium in the Trump White House starts agreeing with the tone of the questions of the press.

WATTERS: Right.

CAMERON: That person needs to be pushed out and somebody who can pick a fight will come in.

WATTERS: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: There are a bunch of names out there. One of the things they are not talking very aggressively is who will be the political director, who will be the coms director, who will be the White House spokesman, the White House press secretary, there are a lot of candidates.

GUILFOYLE: Any names that stand out?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: They have got Donald Trump to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: What about the choice between -- you've got Rudy Giuliani and.

GUTFELD: You got John Bolton. It's like a choice between a Porsche and another Porsche, an embarrassment of riches. Can you have both? Can you have both of them in the same administration?

CAMERON: Well, John Bolton has already been a U.N. Ambassador.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

CAMERON: He hasn't been on the national security council, so the president of the United States. And there are other positions in national security that he could get involved in pretty easily. Rudy Giuliani clearly has the short track on this. For him to be joking about maybe I'm better than Bolton having complimented him is pretty much saying and telling us that Donald has given him a wink.

FRANCIS: Right.

WILLIAMS: So let me just ask you about two people who as we saw when Kimberly was doing the lead into our segment, it seems they have removed themselves. One, Newt Gingrich who says he wants to be the big picture guy. But I thought he was up for a major position. And the second one is Ben Carson, the neurosurgeon.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You have news on that?

WILLIAMS: Excuse me?

GUILFOYLE: You have news on that?

WILLIAMS: My son, Raffi Williams, broke that story today. But I thought Carson was positioned to either do HHS and the repeal of the Affordable Care Act, or B, education. But he, too, has pulled himself out.

CAMERON: Right. Well, there are different versions of who pushed and who pulled. One of the versions is that Ben Carson, a brilliant neurosurgeon who spent his life dealing with human tissues and cells would have a really difficult time dealing with the biggest bureaucracy in the U.S. government, which is in itself the biggest bureaucracy. And never mind, it would be for the repeal, reform, revision, or whatever to the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare. Ben Carson is a great, great mind.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-huh.

CAMERON: Being an intellect isn't necessarily what you want at Health and Human Services. You want somebody who could will a sledge hammer. He's more of a scalpel kind of guy.

GUTFELD: Well, there were a few times in the past that he was good with the sledge hammer or was it a knife? I can't remember.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Those were the days.

WILLIAMS: You have to bring up things. You, liberals.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: So he doesn't strike me as someone who is diplomatic. I mean, is that the idea, that he has a gruff way about him or is it the idea of him going into reforming the State Department? I mean, that could be one angle on it as well.

CAMERON: I think it is all of the above. But it is also that his international company after having been the mayor has taken him all over the world. He's met with world leaders as part of his security company. He has been deeply involved in anti-terrorism work, both in the public and private sector, not just as the mayor of New York. But again, after that, he ran for president in 2008. But that's not the only thing he's doing. So he knows a lot of these foreign leaders by name. And he certainly understands the terrorism threat. He certainly understands radical Islamic terrorism.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

CAMERON: And reform of the State Department is something that every secretary does, it's going to be reformed from Hillary Clinton and the Democrats just by virtue of the Republican.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: So he's not going to use a private server if he is Secretary of State. He's going to stick with dot.gov, right?

CAMERON: He knows.

GUILFOYLE: Question, he actually knows the law and will follow it. I think he's a fantastic choice. I think you need serious reform in the State Department. This is right now in world and the climate, that we are dealing with geopolitical climate, one of the most important positions and selections that president-elect Trump is going can make.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You know what it is that all these names have in common, whether Newt is involved or not, or Rudy Giuliani? They are all adults. It seems like you know this cabinet has a different theme.

WATTERS: There is no Van Jones.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Yeah. You know, the sensibility of the Obama administration was childlike, that we can change the world. If we just feel good about it, we can do it. We don't need adults like people who would go, wait a second, it's terrorism out there that we have to deal with.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: But one of the criticisms immediately of the Obama administration was having promised hope and change, they began to put people like Tim Geithner there.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: And they were formers of the previous administrations and things like that. So we should be watching very carefully as to whether or not that ends up being the practice of the Trump administration.

GUILFOYLE: What about Rick Grinell for U.N. Ambassador?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Very smart.

CAMERON: That would be history-making. And it sends a message that the Trump campaign and the Trump family very much want to have heard that they will be friendly to the LGBT community.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I'm passing it along. And there he is.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They will be thrilled over that.

WILLIAMS: One last thing to you, Carl.

GUILFOYLE: He's very pro-gun Second Amendment.

WILLIAMS: A lot of criticism of Bannon and Breitbart, just quickly, what's your take.

CAMERON: I have known Steve for a long, long time, in fact when he was working with Breitbart back in the early days, he's a very, very bright guy.

FRANCIS: Yep.

CAMERON: He does his homework. He communicates it personally, quietly. He doesn't need to be out front.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Brilliant tactician.

CAMERON: Having your hands on the levers of power requires you to keep your mouth shut sometimes. Some of what he's criticized for is the Breitbart web page isn't necessarily where he comes from.

GUILFOYLE: It's unfair to paint him in this light.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERON: He needs to address the criticism and point it out that I was running an operation. Some people wrote things I may not agree with. But Breitbart News was controversial, it is still controversial. He's now out of it. He's not controversial as the senior council to the president at this point. We have not heard from him.

GUTFELD: Can I offer some perspective on this because as someone who wrote at Breitbart? Lena Dunham is deeply offended by this choice. And I believe that anything that deeply offends Lena Dunham has to be right choice.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Isn't she in Canada by now?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: No, no, no. She left a voicemail with Paul Ryan basically saying how upset she was. It must be like an oral wedgey.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I can't imagine that voicemail. Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: That is just not good. Thank you. All right. Next to Greg again on the showdown brewing between the president-elect and mayors of sanctuary cities who are vowing to defy orders on illegal immigration. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So despite what President-elect Donald Trump thinks, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel says his city will remain a sanctuary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO MAYOR: To be clear about what Chicago is, it always will be a sanctuary city. To all those who are -- after Tuesday's election very nervous, filled with anxiety, has been spoken to -- you are safe in Chicago. You are secure in Chicago and you are supported in Chicago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So Chicago will always be a sanctuary city. But to whom, you moron? Your city has roughly 600 murders a year and you're bragging that it is a sanctuary city? Your citizens are gunned down more often than soldiers in most war zones and that's a sanctuary? And that's a sanctuary? What else is a sanctuary? Aleppo? Mosul? The magma basin of an active volcano? Charlie Sheen's hot tub? How can you brazenly use the word sanctuary in a place where so many people die? Chicago is only slightly safer than a minefield, but at least with a minefield, it's not advertised as a sanctuary.

Here is the other thing that I don't get: If you can have sanctuary cities for one illegal behavior, why can't there be sanctuaries for others? How about one for nudists, or tax cheats, or nudist tax cheats with a fondness for inflatable unicorns. Or better, how about sanctuaries for people escaping horrible cities run by incompetent liberals like Rahm? It's entirely possible that one day, there could be sanctuary cities in Mexico for people fleeing Chicago.

But the worst part of Rahm's idiocy is that he sees no link between his symbolic gesture and the horror it causes. For that, I offer two words: Kate Steinle. There was no sanctuary for her.

How can you talk about a sanctuary city, Kimberly, when you have bloodshed, 600 dead in your streets? I mean, it's a moral, magnificent blind spot.

GUILFOYLE: It really is. I mean, public enemy number to you know public safety. How can you say, in good faith, that you're governing when in fact, you're allowing blood to spill on the streets because you are not enforcing the laws that are on the books? To me, it's unconscionable. I lived and worked in a sanctuary city, became far worse after I left. Hence, you see what's happened here. It's why Bill O'Reilly put forward Kate's law. And I believe president-elect Trump will in fact put this forward and I hope that he does. The problem is you will have an enforcement issue. And maybe, Congress can do something about it in terms of the finances and cutting funding. But it will be very difficult to flat out and go out and arrest the sheriff if they are not complying with the law. But you can certainly put pressure on it. But other than directly harboring someone who is an illegal alien, it's tough to be able to get after them.

GUTFELD: You know the problem with this, Juan, the mayors are conflating two things. People are worried about criminality, they understand the compassion involved with families. But it seems like, when you want to get rid of the criminals, you are being called, you want to destroy people's lives and everything like that. This seems to me like a symbolic gesture. Like a romantic gesture that, no, I don't feel that way. I'm not like Trump.

WILLIAMS: Well, first of all, you're right when you talk about the symbolism of it. But it has some reality to it. The premise is if you have local police informing the federal government about the immigration status of people who are undocumented, illegal immigrants, and all the rest, then people might stop cooperating with the local police in terms of busting people.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Not true.

WILLIAMS: Hang on, I don't know if it's true or not.

WATTERS: That's not true, Juan.

WILLIAMS: That's the fear.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Police don't report if you come in with a hot tip on a crime, they're not going to report you.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Hold on. So if you get arrested -- and I don't care what you get arrested for and then the police released you, and it turns out that they discover you are an illegal immigrant, they, in San Francisco, Chicago, elsewhere don't have an obligation to inform immigration and customs. And if you enter the sanctuary city status, then they would be required. That's what they are fighting against.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: Why do you think that's outrageous?

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: If they arrest someone and they find out they are illegal.

WILLIAMS: They don't want the immigrant community to say, gee.

FRANCIS: To avoid crimes they might be arrested for?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, in other words, if they say hey, I'm going to cooperate with the police on this crime.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: That's not cooperating though.

WATTERS: Maria down the block knows there is a trap house with guns being trafficked and drugs being trafficked, and she goes to the local law enforcement to say, check this house out. Cops aren't going to turn around and say, hey, Maria, by the way, you're out of here, south of the border.

WILLIAMS: It's not even Maria.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: That's the case you're talking about.

WILLIAMS: No, no. There is still so much more to crime than something like so dramatic as whatever you call that house.

WATTERS: You calling me dramatic, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. But I'm saying, that if you have a domestic abuse situation or a child abuse situation, and then you call in the cops and they say, we discovered one of these people, they're out of here.

FRANCIS: They're going to deport the victim? That doesn't make any sense. All I can say is that riding around in New York City, I'm watching an ad at the back of my taxi cab. And it's Mayor de Blasio bragging about the fact that he will not cooperate with ICE, that he will not turn over names. He's bragging this. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm paying for this ad. I mean, this is taxpayer dollars in the back of the taxi. Can I decide which laws I will and will not cooperate with?

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCIS: I'm not paying my taxes anymore. I don't want to. Let's do that together.

GUTFELD: I'm a tax cheating nudist.

FRANCIS: Well, I want to keep my clothes on but I would like to not pay taxes please.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Do you realize there is panic in the immigrant community in New York and elsewhere?

WATTERS: There's panic on the south side of Chicago, Juan, because people are being gunned down.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He cares more about the safety of criminal illegal aliens.

WILLIAMS: That's a ridiculous argument.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Over here, camera.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Germany launched a massive crackdown today on Islamic groups with suspected ties to terror. Will America do the same? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: There were sweeping raids across 60 German cities today as the country intensified the crackdown on terror. The mission, to shut down a large Islamic group suspected of recruiting fighters for ISIS. Police stormed almost 200 mosques, offices, and homes after the government banned one of Germany's most well known Muslim organizations called True Religion. Could president-elect Trump do something similar here? He addressed the ISIS threat in his first TV interview following the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have said you're going to destroy ISIS. Now, how are you going to do that?

DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT-ELECT: I don't tell you that. I don't tell you that.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I'm not like the people going in right now and fighting Mosul, and announced it four months before they went in to Mosul, and everybody now it's a tough fight because, number one, the people from the leaders of ISIS have left. Why do I have to tell you that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Troops on the ground?

TRUMP: I'm not going to say anything. We have great generals. We have great generals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said you knew more than the generals about ISIS.

TRUMP: Well, I'll be honest with you. I probably do. Because look at the job they have done. Now, maybe it's leadership, maybe something else. Who knows? All I can tell you is we're going to get rid of ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So, Jesse, as we see the Germans involved in this sweep, they had no detentions. No one was arrested. I don't understand that. But anyway, when you watch president-elect Trump on 60 Minutes, did you think in fact as Rudy Giuliani says, job number one, get rid of ISIS, everything else in the background. Job number one, ISIS. What do you think?

WATTERS: Well, they have to start building the wall first. I thought that was a top priority. I guess go after ISIS is second. I don't think we'll see mosque raids in America. I think Islamic terrorism has a bigger foothold than Germany. So it's a bigger problem. The New York Times and you would probably love the headlines, Trump raids mosques across America. It's not going to happen. I don't see it happening. So I wouldn't worry about it. But he does have a strategy against ISIS, tactical air strikes, special operators on the ground, take the oil. We all know what it is, Juan. You use leverage against the Saudis and the Jordanians to make them pay up. Make them pony up for some safe zones. There are ways to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Cyber warfare.

WATTERS: Cyber warfare. And you know what I think we should do, we have done this in all the wars before except President Obama's wars, is that you embed video guys with the fighters. So we broadcast images of us destroying strong holds and taking prisoners and then securing a territory. Right now, we are doing everything in the dark. Everything is drone strikes. We're not taking prisoners, and ISIS is winning the war against the narrative.

WILLIAMS: I'm very interested in what you said. So I'm just going to follow up and say isn't that Obama's policy?

WATTERS: Which is what?

WILLIAMS: Putting in special intelligence.

WATTERS: No, Obama's policy is draw a red line and then don't do anything about it.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. I'm sorry I followed up.

WATTERS: And then we have to fight global warming.

WILLIAMS: No, no, I was interested in what you said, but I just don't see it as that distinct than what we're doing.

WATTERS: Well, we've got to seize the oil, and we have to use leverage over the Saudis.

WILLIAMS: Seizing the oil is kind of controversial.

WATTERS: Not have lawyers call in air strikes. Have the general do it instead.

WILLIAMS: OK.

FRANCIS: I think the president-elect had said that he was going to give the generals one month to come to him with a plan. You know, I was talking to an expert in the last hour from the Institute of the Study of War who said there are a bunch of plans out there already, that they haven't been unleashed to do them. They're ready to go.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

FRANCIS: It won't take a month. It will take more like a day, that they can go out and execute on them. That this idea that, you know, he knows more than the generals, I mean, I think he was baited into saying that again. It's really that they weren't unleashed to do what they wanted to do.

But I think that they can get out there and execute on this very quickly. But it would be a very different plan from what the president said. And I don't -- Jesse, I don't think we know what it is yet.

WATTERS: Well, we're not going to topple Assad. You know? I think we're going to keep propping him up with the Russians. We don't want regime change, because it's going to create a vacuum.

GUILFOYLE: We don't need to do that first.

WILLIAMS: So Kimberly, what do you see? And do you think it is job No. 1, as Rudy Giuliani says?

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. It's been -- I've been talking about this. I mean, every day if I could I would talk about it. I think this is job No. 1. We'll deal with the wall. Don't worry, Jesse. Bottom line is you've got to go over there and you've got to get them. You've got to get the job done.

They have all the resources. They know exactly, believe me, what they need to do, like Melissa said. Trust me. What they need is the authorization. They need the authorization to go in there and use whatever means necessary not to sort of half-heartedly tickle ISIS. To be like cancel all your big plans. You know, caliphate canceled.

FRANCIS: Unleash them.

GUILFOYLE: OK? That's what they need to do. And use a variety of means to do so. I agree with him. Don't say -- tell her, "I'm not going to do ground troop." No. You have to be able to have people on the ground, in the theater, to commit those resources for real-time intelligence, and strike them. Cut off all the pathways, the routes in which they bring...

WILLIAMS: But you know what? I was saying...

GUILFOYLE: Choke them to death.

WILLIAMS: I think we do have -- unless you're talking about troops on the ground.

GUILFOYLE: You have to do more than President Obama has done...

WILLIAMS: OK. All right.

GUILFOYLE: ... clearly, or we wouldn't be still talking about this.

WILLIAMS: Greg, I come to you because I'm driving up your alley here...

GUTFELD: That sounds great.

WILLIAMS: ... in terms of social media.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Right? And what happened in Germany today was that they went after that group because they said they were radicalizing young people. And about 140 of them had gone, then, to Syria to fight with ISIS from Germany.

GUTFELD: Well, this marries two issues. One, the marriage of technology to terror, which is something that's very important. And the race against time.

What civilization has to do is create an extremist-free Islam before that extremism applies technology to terror. Meaning when an extremist gets a dirty bomb and destroys a city. I don't think it's possible to beat them. I think there will always be extremists associated with this doctrine. Because the doctrine has dedicated followers who believe in martyrdom. They're always going to be here.

The only thing we can do is we have to protect ourselves, and we have to kill them when we can. So when ISIS goes away, there's going to be a new - - there's going to be a new radical Islamic faction that replaces them. We have to be aware of that, and we have to kill that, as well.

GUILFOYLE: And you don't let him get to this point, do you? This is the problem. Or do you want Germany? This is the point. Like, you've got an exact example of what we're looking at if we don't get it together and if you don't kill it there and crush them and extinguish them, OK, put them into permanent extinction, then you're going to have the problem here on the shores.

How do I know this? Because we already have.

WILLIAMS: Next, Bill O'Reilly has a message for liberals like me who fear Trump's policies won't be inclusive like Obama's. Hear that when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Today President Obama gave himself another pat on the back and once again dismissed any suggestions that he's to blame for his party's huge losses on Tuesday. Krauthammer respectfully disagrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Historians are going to see him as a textbook definition of a guy who won on hope and change, who won with a wave of goodwill, and who completely destroyed his presidency with liberal overreach, beginning with Obamacare. And this is a rejection of ideology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Bill O'Reilly has this wake up call for Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: The anti-Trump people believe that eight years of the Obama administration have brought about an American unification, that we are basically harmonious in this country. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the liberal administration of the past eight years has encouraged inclusion. It has not.

And the millions of Americans who were excluded by the Obama administration have now put an end to the inclusion delusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: So let's just start with the Electoral College map. Just the basics of it. If you look at the after effects of this race, you have the Rust Belt now in the Republican corner: Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania.

Kimberly, do you think the Democrats understand the magnitude of what happened and the possibility that these three or four states could almost be four years, eight years, 12 years down the line in the Republican column and what the Democratic Party is going to need to do to address their failure in these states?

GUILFOYLE: Unless they are color blind. Because let me tell you, when you look at that electoral map, it's not just Rust Belt. I mean, you look across the country. There's, like, fringe blue counties on the edges. But the map is red.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: It's really unbelievable. So you can't feel good about this if you are President Obama or his administration, because they weren't listening. The Democratic Party wasn't listening to what people were trying to say. And then they stood up, and this whole movement that President-elect Trump started. He was listening. And he kept talking when he was giving his speeches and talking about "we": "We will do this. We have to win. We have no choice." And that's because of the failed policies, unfortunately, of the man who was in the White House for the past eight years, and the Democratic Party.

And look, he worked hard to campaign and was elected resoundingly. President Barack Obama. OK? He did. He worked very hard. And I agree with him on this, when he won places like Iowa, because he went to all those different counties. He did. And I'm telling you, Hillary didn't. I don't know if it would have even made a difference. But there's no comparison to her, like, 10 percent throttle and Trump's 90 percent.

FRANCIS: But do you know why those people didn't vote for her this time, though?

GUILFOYLE: Corrupt?

FRANCIS: It's settling arguments, Juan, that you and I have had all along, which is this idea that those people were not better off after eight years. I mean, they looked in their wallets. It doesn't come down to race; it comes down to money. These are people that believed in him and hoped for the economy to get better. And yes, the economy was in a disastrous place.

But over these past eight years, it's got marginally better and for a lot of people not at all. Because we saw median income fall. And we saw the divide between rich and poor get so much worse over the past eight years.

And he's right: There are lots of people last time around that voted for him and this time around voted for Trump. And he doesn't see -- but like "I don't get it. Those people are unarguably better off." He doesn't get it. They're not better off, and that's why they voted for somebody else.

WILLIAMS: He said in...

GUILFOYLE: The forgotten men and women.

FRANCIS: The forgotten men and women.

WILLIAMS: He said in an interview in Greece, where he's traveling today, he said he definitely knew of the frustration, of the anger felt by some people. But what he also said was, if you look at the reality: one, his numbers. He's a very popular president.

FRANCIS: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: I think he's above 55 percent.

GUILFOYLE: People like him personally, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Fifty-seven percent.

But the -- and the second thing to say is the argument you and I always have, is if you look at GDP, if you look at unemployment, if you look at Wall Street, wow, after the deep recession we were in...

FRANCIS: Yes, Wall Street, woo-hoo!

WATTERS: I wouldn't say wow, Juan. I'd say, like, his two most significant initiatives, the Iranian nuke deal and Obama care about to be left in tatters. And we've doubled the debt, and people haven't gotten a raise. The country is racially polarized.

WILLIAMS: I think wages are going up.

WATTERS: There's no way you can say that this has been a successful presidency.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I do.

WATTERS: Greg.

WILLIAMS: I do. I think -- are you kidding? Wait a second. Remember, Mitt Romney said if he could get unemployment to six. This is at 4.9.

WATTERS: Juan, less people are working now more than they were in 2009.

WILLIAMS: OK.

FRANCIS: But their income has fallen. The jobs they've replaced them with aren't paying anything. People are looking in their bank account, and they're saying, "You can give me whatever GDP stat you want. I have less money."

GUILFOYLE: Greggins.

GUTFELD: The reason why Juan thinks that way and you think that way is because Obama's success has been the party's failure. He was the most persuasive progressive salesman that ever existed. However, the product's really bad.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: He's a great salesman selling bad meat at high prices.

So now the Democratic Party is in trouble, because they still have their bad ideas. But what's missing is the greatest salesman they ever had. The greatest salesman just walked off into the sunset, leaving them with the world's crappiest product.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, she was also the worst candidate.

WATTERS: Right. And the Democratic Party has been shut out worse than they ever have in a hundred years. In terms of governorships, House, Senate...

GUILFOYLE: But Jesse...

WILLIAMS: This is -- this is the hard argument.

WATTERS: ... and state legislatures. So -- I think 1928 was the last time you guys were in that position.

GUILFOYLE: And Jesse, they had enough of the Clintons. The country had enough of the Clintons.

WATTERS: Well, there's that.

GUILFOYLE: She was not a good candidate.

WATTERS: Right.

GUILFOYLE: She was corrupt; she was crooked. She put people's lives in danger. People lost their lives under her watch.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Don't pile on, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I'm telling the truth. She -- it was a repudiation of her and of the liberal policies.

WILLIAMS: But Kimberly...

WATTERS: We're going to let Kimberly pile on, but now Juan...

WILLIAMS: ... 55 percent...

WATTERS: ... we have to go to the break. You don't get to pile on anymore.

Ahead, more buzz on who President-elect Trump will select for the cabinet. Who we just found out was spotted at Trump Towers today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FRANCIS: Back now with more on the big meeting at Trump Tower today between the president-elect and the head of his transition team. That is Vice-president-elect Mike Pence. They huddled together here in midtown Manhattan to figure out key appointments in their administration.

Kimberly, we are learning that Ted Cruz was seen coming from Trump Tower. In fact, he confirmed it with a statement, saying that he was pleased to have the opportunity to meet with the president-elect. What do you think they were speaking about?

GUILFOYLE: I think we should have gotten an alert for that. Because I think one of the most important things and some of the single-issue voters were very passionate about the United States Supreme Court...

FRANCIS: Oooh!

GUILFOYLE: ... and putting in a justice that would definitely be in the -- you know, design of Antonin Scalia: conservative, a constitutionalist that will uphold amendments like the Second Amendment and be strong on the conservative issues that the evangelicals and the conservative right wanted. So there you go. Feast your eyes on Senator Cruz. Because -- yes.

FRANCIS: I like that. I'm getting high from the fumes from the Sharpie here.

GUILFOYLE: I think he would do it.

FRANCIS: Yes. Juan, what do you think? Is there -- you had another idea as to what Ted Cruz could be doing there.

WILLIAMS: Well, obviously Attorney General, Ted Cruz was both in the White House counsel's office and also over at the Justice Department. So you know, I mean, it's possible.

It's, you know, odd to me, because obviously, Donald Trump had some ripe things to say about Ted Cruz.

FRANCIS: And everyone else.

WILLIAMS: What did he call him, Lyin' Ted? Was that lying...?

WATTERS: Lyin' Ted.

WILLIAMS: Lyin' Ted. And then the best part...

GUILFOYLE: I don't -- I don't think he would be his A.G.

WILLIAMS: No?

GUILFOYLE: He'd be his own man at U.S. Supreme Court. And Jeff Sessions.

WILLIAMS: But if he's A.G., guess what? This is what -- this is what -- tell him what you were thinking.

WATTERS: I was saying in the commercial break maybe he could investigate whether his dad really killed JFK.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh. I didn't want to say it. I didn't want to say it.

GUILFOYLE: Another episode of "That's Incredible."

WATTERS: No, you know, I think that he's probably going to clear right straight through Senate confirmation hearings, because a lot of the senators aren't very fond of Ted Cruz. They might like to see him go quickly to the Supreme Court.

But I'd like to see whether the mainstream media is impressed with a Hispanic man...

WILLIAMS: Oh, God.

WATTERS: ... in the contention to be a Supreme Court justice, as they were with all of the wise Latinas under President Obama's tutelage.

FRANCIS: Oh, my goodness. That's Sharpie. Sharpie man, what are you writing over there? What are you writing?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. Melissa is very affected by it.

FRANCIS: I am.

GUTFELD: I know. The Mike Pence is killing me. That's all you're going to get from me today.

I don't care where Ted Cruz goes. I just know that the confirmation process will be hilarious.

WATTERS: It will be delightful.

FRANCIS: There you go. "One More Thing" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." And yesterday I told you that I would be attending the New York Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, our annual gala. I'm a member of the Children's Council. And I was fortunate to serve as the master of ceremonies last night, and it was truly amazing.

The beautiful event took place at the Metropolitan Club right down the street, and the amount of love and support on behalf of children was incredible. We raised over $600,000, which they sorely need.

And I just want to say thank you so everyone who came and supported me. My colleague, Melissa Francis, who's here at the table; Cheryl Cassone, Heather Childers, Dr. Steve O'Brien, Russ Caniglio (ph), also G.G. Stone, Danielle Yancey (ph). I'm very appreciative. I just want to make sure everyone knows. I don't think I left -- Kyle Nolan, and thank you for all your help for producing that and helping with all of that. And Danielle Yancey (ph), as well. And to my friend, Denk Toi (ph), who designed my dress, which was absolutely...

GUTFELD: We need that music in the Oscars.

GUILFOYLE: You can't wrap me. I'm in charge of this.

And most importantly here, as always, Ainsley Earhardt has supported that charity. She was getting ready for the launch of her book. Today is the day. We are immensely proud of her here at FOX News channel. And God bless Ainsley and her daughter, Hayden, who was the inspiration. And here's her book here, "Take Heart, My Child." You can click on the link on my Facebook page to purchase it or go to hers. Again, Ainsley, wonderful job, super proud of you.

GUTFELD: Yay.

WILLIAMS: I'll go next. Thomas Jefferson, known as the father of the Declaration of Independence and of the words "All men created equal" although he was a slave owner, is also father of the Library of Congress and also father of the University of Virginia.

So get this: some UVA students now want to forget about Thomas Jefferson. Due to tension on campus following the election results, UVA president Teresa Sullivan sent an e-mail out with a quote from Jefferson meant to encourage students to join hands, to unify, and act together in a spirit of harmony.

Apparently, 469 students and faculty found the mention, though, of Thomas Jefferson's name divisive. Even offensive. Get that. And penned a letter of complaint to President Sullivan.

Now, look, I understand the complicated relationship that UVA has with Jefferson. As I said, a noted slave owner. But how can the university erase any mention of its founder's name in good spirit? To me, this is like historical whitewash lying. Thomas Jefferson was not a bad guy, and he certainly isn't evidence of a divisive culture.

Go, President Sullivan. Stand. Take a stand on this one.

GUILFOYLE: Good job, Juan. If the students don't like it, go to a different school that's not based on Thomas Jefferson's stuff. OK, Greg.

GUTFELD: I got...

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's just true.

GUTFELD: Real quick, I've got a column up on the election at FOXNews.com/opinion. Go there. My little column. It's cute. You'll like it.

Then I'm on Howard Stern tomorrow. I'm actually calling in around 7:30 Eastern Time. That's very early for me. It's -- the topic is very interesting. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

And now it is time for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Political Animals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: You know, a lot of people have been talking about the election and how people think about the election. No one has asked the animals. So let's go to the animals.

Here we have some lovely pugs. The moment they found out that Trump won, look at them. They went crazy. It's going to make America drool again. That's what they said.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, cute.

GUTFELD: They're so excited.

And of course, we went over to China where we found this lovely polar bear. Very, very sad, because he's afraid Donald Trump will melt all the icebergs, because he's been listening to all the horrible propaganda from Leo DiCraprio [SIC] and Al Snore. Boo. Sad polar bear.

Finally, let's go to my favorite bear, besides Bret, the panda. This panda was so inspired by the Donald Trump election that he learned to walk, or he's trying to learn to walk. But don't give up, little fellow. You've got four to eight years to grow.

GUILFOYLE: You're stealing Shep's "Bear Alert."

GUTFELD: I know. Well, bears are for everyone, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I love bears.

OK, Melissa.

FRANCIS: I want to move on to animals, as well, because college students aren't the only ones that are using puppies to get over what happened with the election. George W. Bush and Laura Bush are, as well. Look at this adorable puppy that they just adopted. It is a rescue puppy. Meet Freddy Bush, an Australian Shepherd mix.

I felt pressured to do this, because I'm sitting in Dana's seat. I felt I had to do something doggy-ish, but isn't that an adorable puppy?

GUILFOYLE: Beyond.

FRANCIS: Adorable. That is Freddy Bush.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Jesse.

WATTERS: So people's imaginations are running wild for what President- elect Donald Trump would do in the White House, so Jimmy Kimmel took advantage of that and went out on the streets and said that Trump was doing some outrageous things; and people bought it hook, line and sinker.

FRANCIS: That is shocking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have people been saying about Donald Trump's plans to put a waterbed in and a mirror on the ceiling in the bedroom?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Some people said it's cool. Some people say it's going too far. But I mean, if he likes to get down and get a little freaky, you want to look at yourself on the ceiling in the mirror, you want to bounce around on the waterbed, so be it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Not that big of a stretch, no?

GUTFELD: That is a...

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Not that big of a stretch.

GUTFELD: I have to say, that might be one of the greatest beards I've ever seen in my life. It takes a lot of power to grow that beard.

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: That was "Watters' World," man.

WATTERS: Yes, that guy would have been perfect for "Watters' World." Better get out there to...

GUILFOYLE: And speaking of which, I'll be with you for this weekend on that.

WATTERS: That is right.

GUILFOYLE: Going to be great.

WATTERS: In the house.

GUILFOYLE: Real quick, I just wanted to say, because you know how much I love my charity, it is the nation's oldest child abuse charity. And it is so powerful and does such good work, in large measure because of Mary Polito, the executive director; and Deborah Norville, my friend; Sabrina Martin, Megan (Ph), Jocelyn (ph). And thank you to Grammercy Tavern for all the fabulous food and Adam Rappaport from "Bon Appetit" magazine.

WATTERS: I never was...

GUILFOYLE: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report," Baier alert, next.

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