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The Five

Democrats play defense for Obamacare

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 26, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Terrible people. Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and a Flintstone vitamin is her headrest, Dana Perino, "The Five."

So why the hell would Democrats admit that Obamacare is screwed right now? With two weeks left in this horror show of election, this has to hurt Hillary.

But what if we're wrong?

First, Obamacare benefits from being so bad it's now background noise like traffic, crying babies and my pillow commercials. We are desensitized to reality. But more important, what if it's not about exposing Obamacare's horror, but a ploy for expanding it, i.e. single payer? After all, the liberal fix for arson is always more fire.

As Ezra Klein tweeted, "It's not hard to make Obamacare better, but you would need a governing majority that wants to make it better." Meaning: A forced purchase always requires more force. It's the socialist excuse: The idea is sound, we just need to obey more. Compare that with capitalism, a system that happily adapts to human imperfections. Unlike socialism, no straightjacket is required.

Yet this menacing intrusion never ends because the media approves, even when decades of failure stare back at us with pleading eyes. The ruin is twofold: The real damage is what we got from Obamacare; the unseen damage is what could have been in its place. What could have been? You can apply that question to Venezuela, the USSR, the inner cities, wherever top-down coercion leaving its bloody imprint. What could have been?

Fact is the Affordable Care Act was indeed an act, a Trojan horse for redistribution. What we're told is good for us can only exist as a lie. To the left we're just children, forced to take our medicine, especially if it kills us.

So -- all right Eric, here is my conspiracy.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Can it be Detroit and Chicago, what could have been.

GUTFELD: What could have been?

BOLLING: That does --

GUTFELD: But -- OK, strategy. They are countering the repeal argument with its expansion. So now you have people like Michael Moore, you got everybody said, oh, to make -- to improve this single payer all Medicaid, whatever. Is that --?

BOLLING: And what they're doing is they're setting it up for Hillary.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: Because this is what she has been calling for all along. She wants -- think about this for one second. Her idea of a perfect health care system would be a 10 percent payroll tax. So you open up your check at the end of the week or the end of the month and you go, wow, taxes stink, payroll taxes stink already. Add 10 percent to that number, to your gross number, and that's what she's looking for so that they can eventually provide competition, I love the federal government will be able to bring in and bring prices down. Here are the promises that they have made. You can - - Obamacare will -- the average family will pay $2,500 less a year for Obamacare.

GUTFELD: Right.

BOLLING: It's actually $4,500 more per year.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: It is.

BOLLING: Well bend the cost curve down. We bend the cost curve up. You can keep your doctor. You can keep your plan. That's one of the biggest lies I would say in the last 50 years next to Bernie Madoff and Bill Clinton saying he didn't have sex with that woman. Obamacare is now an extended Medicaid system. That's what it is. Some people are getting health care for free. Some are getting highly subsidized health care. And a group -- a smaller group of people are picking up the cost on that. That is exactly Medicaid straight down, straight down the line. It's socialism.

GUTFELD: Uh-huh. Juan, you sit there surprised and shocked. You were upset by this.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I never heard what Eric said that Hillary Clinton wants a 10 percent higher --

BOLLING: Ten percent payroll tax.

WILLIAMS: I never heard that. But I will say this to you. I was listening and I thought you were on track for most of it and I thought, wait a minute. The existing marketplace is status quo. And that of course was leaving millions -- not millions, but tens of millions of Americans without health insurance. So, why was that good?

GUTFELD: I would argue that if -- that there were definite a free market options that were often demonized and ignored because of a free market, whether they were health savings accounts.

WILLIAMS: But when I talked to elderly people today .

GUTFELD: People knowing what they were paying for.

WILLIAMS: . about -- for example, prescription drugs. I don't care if they're republican or democrat. They say it's outrageous what they have to pay for prescription drugs in this country. And they don't think that the free market is so great.

GUTFELD: Well, imagine --

WILLIAMS: They think that the drug companies are ripping them off.

GUTFELD: Imagine going into a supermarket where there's no price tag on everything -- on anything. Toilet paper could be a hundred dollars or a hundred cents. That's the problem with -- nobody knows how much that costs.

BOLLING: If there's only one supplier of toilet papers.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: You gonna pay a hundred dollars for the roll of toilet paper .

GUTFELD: Yeah, that's like in the hospital.

BOLLING: . when you're a competition.

WILLIAMS: But we have competition.

BOLLING: And Juan -- no, we don't have.

WILLIAMS: . on so many levels .

BOLLING: No, we don't.

WILLIAMS: . in the health care --

BOLLING: Absolutely not. We don't. We don't have competition between health care providers across state lines .

WILLIAMS: Of course we do.

BOLLING: We need tort reform. We need health savings accounts. We need to speed up the process to bring drugs; it will save people's lives .

WILLIAMS: Well, fine.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, but that means, in some case the argument would be allow Americans to go to Mexico or Canada or even to Europe in order to get drugs. The American drug company says, "Oh, no. Don't do that. We are the innovators. We create solutions."

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And that's why we have higher -- but I'm just saying, my point is, I don't think the status quo capitalistic marketplace always provide the answer.

GUTFELD: And we never -- we were never given the chance, Kimberly. Ironically he mentions other countries. Why is it people from other countries comes here for health care?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah. Why is everyone trying to cross .

GUTFELD: It's so terrible.

GUILFOYLE: . the border illegally, to get to us, because we have Obamacare? I don't know. The point is simply, though the democrats, you know, rushed this in. They pushed it through. Now they're crying and they want to have the republicans help them get out of it. But you know he was able to get this passed through because he had a wrong majority in the House and the Senate, put through reconciliation without a republican vote. And now they're saying, OK, let's fix it. Why should the republicans fix it? Why should they? Let it die like they didn't care about the people that were going to get rate hikes or lose their doctors. They put this whole fraud upon it and then they want now a certain burden on specific people to be able to subsidize this dying ship going forward. I think it does need to be repealed, replaced and that's that.

GUTFELD: Unplugged. As they say.

GUILFOYLE: Pull the plug.

GUTFELD: As they say in certain countries. Dana, I simply remember -- I remember one talking head a while ago pleading with the Trump campaign to focus on Obamacare. Who was that person?

PERINO: Hmm. I don't know.

GUTFELD: Is it time?

PERINO: She was sure, though.

GUTFELD: Is there plenty of time? I mean is this --

PERINO: She was really sure. Well, I mean, there's good reason for it. Because in 2014 when President Obama, whether the historic losses in the congressional vote and republicans got so many more seats than they expected, I truly believe that was because of Obamacare. It's not like Obamacare's numbers have gotten any better for the very people that Eric was talking about. The other thing that they did was some clever things. The Democrats put into the bill sweeteners for governors, right? So if you are a governor of a state, even if you are Governor Pence of Indiana, you think, oh, I don't really want to do that, but I'm going to have to do it in terms of taking the money. There's a big fight in Florida over that. And so, now you have a situation where you say we got a taste of it. Most people now will say it's too hard to unwind it.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: It will be too hard.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: It will be too difficult because there are too many people now that are benefitting from it .

GUTFELD: It's like every program.

PERINO: . and what are you going to do with those people? So -- and to Kimberly's point, whoever is president is going to need at least some help from the other side of the aisle in order to get a congressional solution, because it is going to have to be addressed. And so, if you are the republicans, you actually have some good plans. And one of the things they haven't done well enough is to say, we were willing to come to the table on something. And we agreed you can keep your kids on your health insurance until they are 26th birthday. Fine. We agreed to not discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions. You bet yah. Here are the things that we want to do. We would -- "repeal and replace" is a great slogan because conservatives are like, trust us, we know what we're doing. The problem is from a bigger messaging standpoint, you have to explain with what and how. And that is, it's harder. But the key to all of this is economic growth. There's not enough money in the budget to keep this downward spiral from happening.

BOLLING: So, Ezekiel Emanuel is one of the people who are -- one of the architects of Obamacare.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: I heard him on an interview today and --

GUTFELD: I have -- wait. Do we have that? Do we have that?

BOLLING: Do you have it?

GUTFELD: Are you ready? Do you want to hear it first?

BOLLING: Sure.

GUTFELD: Let's do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EZEKIEL EMANUEL, OBAMACARE ARCHITECT: There are million people for whom this is going to be severe or uncomfortable. We should be clear, though there are lots of places where the increases are nowhere near what you are stating. For example, 12 states have increases of 10 percent or less. Big population states are actually much lower rates of increase because they have bigger pools and with bigger pools the change from year to year is not so much. And I --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: OK. So he -- you just --

EMANUEL: You know, for a million people we need to find other solutions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Is that the right thing?

BOLLING: No. The other --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: But I will tell you, he's out of his mind .

GUILFOYLE: That was his --

BOLLING: . if he's saying that some -- if you look at the list, there are states, there are 50 -- 40 percent, 50 percent, a hundred percent increase is going next year. The point I was trying to make is later on in that interview -- it was a different interview. But later on in the interview he said, "The problem with Obamacare is we're not marketing it to young people properly."

GUILFOYLE: Oh, geez.

BOLLING: He said, "Don't worry ."

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: ". your Facebook and Google will start marketing."

GUTFELD: Remember pajama boy?

BOLLING: But the point, it's not -- that's not the problem. The problem is young people are smart. They realize taking the fine is a better deal for them than having to buy Obamacare. It's because, because Justice -- because Justice Roberts decided to call it a tax .

GUTFELD: Right.

BOLLING: . and not a fee, it's their own fault and their -- Obamacare is imploding on its own way.

GUILFOYLE: But this --

WILLIAMS: It's not imploding. And I just want -- I just can't get, I mean just to pick up on what Emanuel said, I said this to you yesterday, 77 percent of current enrollees can still find an ACA plan for under $100, Eric. And it's 83 percent who gets subsidies. He talked about a million people .

BOLLING: Juan, you're talking about current enrollees .

WILLIAMS: . and this --

BOLLING: . who were getting .

WILLIAMS: Let me finish this point.

BOLLING: . getting subsidize.

WILLIAMS: When we're talking about a million people, we're talking about people who make just a little bit too much, so they don't qualify for those subsidies. And when you talk about fixing things, you know, there are realistic steps that can be taken. But what you see is that republicans -- and I think politically, have succeed in sabotaging Obamacare.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

WILLIAMS: just simply -- I'm not taking it .

PERINO: Oh.

WILLIAMS: . or no alternatives. Trump has no alternative at all.

BOLLING: The numbers have sabotaged it (inaudible) --

GUILFOYLE: They -- and they sabotaged themselves .

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, because --

GUILFOYLE: . because they knew that it was going to work.

WILLIAMS: No. You know why I say sabotage, because .

GUILFOYLE: No, you disowned it.

WILLIAMS: . Democrats -- 70 percent of democrats plus support it. It's .

BOLLING: It's democrat .

WILLIAMS: . 76 percent of republican .

BOLLING: . proposition.

WILLIAMS: . has become a republican --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I can't believe a democrat .

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: . supporting a program .

GUILFOYLE: You mean (inaudible).

GUTFELD: . that keeps expanding?

GUILFOYLE: Well, because --

GUTFELD: They're reminded it hurts the country?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, it's the horse that they rode in on -- but here's the problem, because that horse is about to collapse, OK? -- Because here's the problem. You've got in this administration figures, average premium increase for a (inaudible) silver plan, for example, will rise a hundred and sixteen percent in Arizona, 40 percent in North Carolina and 53 percent in Pennsylvania. Ride that all the way if you are Trump or republicans in those swing states. And like Dana said, Obamacare, I think is a huge issue to pound it --

BOLLING: And wait until you see -- Juan, you quoted a poll was taken a month ago. Wait until you see the next premium increases .

WILLIAMS: Sure.

BOLLING: . are made public and acknowledged by the White House, more or less.

WILLIAMS: This is what I --

BOLLING: Did you see how the American public says? You know what, that does stink.

WILLIAMS: You know --

BOLLING: It is too expensive for me.

WILLIAMS: You know you're demonizing Obamacare. It just tells me how successful it has been with republicans. But I just remind you of this fact.

BOLLING: What? What?

GUILFOYLE: What?

WILLIAMS: yeah, because I think it --

BOLLING: What's the logic?

WILLIAMS: Yes, it is.

BOLLING: What?

WILLIAMS: You can demonize Obamacare, among republicans, it's --

BOLLING: What I --

WILLIAMS: Applaud. Applaud.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . acknowledge about Obamacare yesterday .

WILLIAMS: But let me just say --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . when the White House said .

WILLIAMS: Let me say this to you.

BOLLING: . there'll be an increase.

WILLIAMS: The fact.

BOLLING: It's going to be massive.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you something, right now .

GUILFOYLE: You're supporting what the White House said.

WILLIAMS: . the average premiums -- right now, average premiums, we're talking about this hike, with average premiums today with the hike are where they are estimated to be at the start of Obamacare. In other words, it has been below the estimates .

BOLLING: Yeah, but that's --

WILLIAMS: . all this time. And so now we see .

BOLLING: Four, four --

WILLIAMS: A four or five -- what was supposed to be the average at the start? And you say, oh, it's imploding.

BOLLING: Here's the picture.

GUILFOYLE: Emanuel remember it was wrong.

BOLLING: Here's exactly what it is. Its people who are -- make $47,000 or below will able to get highly subsidized or free health care. That brings the average premium price down. You forget about the people who are above $47,000 .

WILLIAMS: That's right.

BOLLING: ... a year, Juan.

WILLIAMS: That's right. Acknowledge the problem.

BOLLING: Those are the people that are picking up the cost for the rest.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BOLLING: That's why premiums .

GUILFOYLE: But they don't care.

BOLLING: . and deductibles .

WILLIAMS: I see.

BOLLING: . are skyrocketing for everyone else.

WILLIAMS: That's what needs to be fixed .

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: . but it's not that the entire programs imploding.

BOLLING: That isn't the issue. Who is paying for it?

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: Guess what?

GUILFOYLE: Dana?

WILLIAMS: Who pays when the poor go to your hospital today?

BOLLING: We do.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, thank you.

GUTFELD: We .

WILLIAMS: That's why my insurance (inaudible).

GUTFELD: . obviously quite fascinated with health. But we must move on.

GUILFOYLE: Best of yours.

GUTFELD: Next, some new polling on early voting. And later, the Pentagon halts a disgraceful effort to force veterans to repay their enlistment bonuses -- the defense secretary's announcement today, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: General election is just around two weeks away, but millions of Americans have already voted in dozens of states and Washington, D.C. Democrats have been taunting to early voting numbers, but the RNC says hold on, not so fast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, RNC CHIEF STRATEGIST AND COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: They have to do well in early voting. Democrats historically have done very well in the early vote. Republicans do very well day of. What they're not telling you as if they're not doing as well as they should be. The republicans are doing much better in early vote than the democrats. And they need to crush it in early vote if they're not doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton made another appeal today to Floridians headed to the polls, early.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We can't take our foot off the gas even for a short time. Every vote counts. Just ask my friend, former Vice President Al Gore. Our bottom line is we need to work for next 13 days. And here in Florida, voting could not be easier. Please, you can go early vote through Sunday, November 6th. Go to any early voting site in your county.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And she knows she has her work cut out for her in the nation's largest -- largest battleground state. The new Bloomberg poll shows Trump ahead in Florida by two points. Bring it around, so in this way.

GUTFELD: Well, I --

BOLLING: Thoughts on two points per -- Trump.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, this is a nice, this is a nice sliver of hope. I mean it's like, you know, I would be happy about this. But it tells me something that there -- for millions of people, the specific criticisms about Trump, simply do not matter. We kind of know that already. He has an entertainment bubble. It's a historical first. It reminds me of a young Obama. No matter what you said about Obama, his base wouldn't listen. And I think that's what you have with Trump, especially in Florida. They, they dismiss allegations and character flaws because they believe he is right on one or two major issues. And they believe that they can forgive the rest because -- as long as he is steadfast on, say terror and immigration.

BOLLING: Dana --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Early votes, 700 -- 600 and change thousands votes for each, so far. It's almost a dead heat going in. Your thoughts?

PERINO: Well, certainly, a lot of votes that come in earlier from the military, and those would probably largely go to Trump. Get out of vote effort in the state are pretty interesting. It's amazing that it's this close given the funding, the number of -- the amount of money that Hillary Clinton has spend and how many offices are there. As of last week, Donald Trump had five full-time staffers in Florida. So maybe he really didn't need that many more. That will be an interesting thing post election. He is under polling where Romney was, at this point with early voting, but those rallies that had, those last three days, I think are paying off. And he knew that he had to have Florida. If on election night they call Florida for Hillary Clinton and as early -- I mean, there's probably no -- there's no other real good path for that.

BOLLING: No, there isn't. I -- in fact, that's it. He has to have Florida - - she doesn't have to have Florida.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: He does have to have Florida.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And I the --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I think it's the -- it is the number one battleground state. And two things to say here; one is, on the early voting -- and I'm, I'm amazed. It's now 40 percent, by the way.

PERINO: That's a lot.

WILLIAMS: 40 percent of Americans .

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . will vote before Election Day. So this election is on. Don't think it's not happening right now. The thing I wanted to say about early voting was that, right now we have democrats and republicans having cast equal numbers of early votes in the state of Florida. Go back to 2012, it was plus 17 for the republicans and Obama still won. So I think that's why you see the democrats celebrating so far. What I think is a far superior ground game. I think Dana just said they have five people on the ground -- that the --

PERINO: Full-time staffers.

WILLIAMS: Right. The Clinton people -- they have offices.

PERINO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: They have operations.

BOLLING: Can I take -- extrapolate that a little bit?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Clinton has offices; people, masses. Trump has five.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: And she's outspending him something like 10 to 1.

PERINO: Yup.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: And he still -- he still neck and neck there.

GUILFOYLE: It'll be like, look at me, I can do more with less. And I will do that in the government. And I won't be taking $5 when I can get it done with $1. They are into waste. This is a problem in D.C. and Washington with politics and business as usual. I'm going to cut back because I care about how hard you work, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here is the thing. His supporters don't need to have their hand held. They are like, I'm all in. I'm going no matter what if I'm going to get struck by lightning. I'm going to make sure I get to the polls. Honestly, what she's got to try, I think really galvanize and get out African-Americans, minorities to come out for her because the numbers are down compared to what Obama was able to get. And certainly with, you know the enthusiasm. So, you know, yeah, they have a very sophisticated ground game. You know they are a well-oiled machine. But nevertheless, they still need the individual vote.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The one thing -- quick thing to say here is picking up on what Kimberly is telling you about. This Bloomberg poll has Trump winning 35 percent of Latinos in the state of Florida. If that's true, that's .

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . that's something.

BOLLING: I think Nevada had about the same number, 33 percent of Latinos in Nevada.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I'm just telling.

BOLLING: There'll be --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: That's unbelievable.

BOLLING: All right, let's leave it there, because we do have a well-oiled machine coming up next, so a lot of issues that matter greatly to voters in this election. "Special Report" kicks off a new series in the top 10 tonight. Bret Baier -- well-oiled machines joins us live from New Hampshire with more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Tonight on the Fox News Channel, in other words, right here. Part one of a must-see 10-part series on the top issues that matter to us, American voters. It kicks off at 6:00 p.m. on "Special Report" with issue number 10, according to a Fox News poll, that issue is drug addiction. Chief Political Anchor Bret Baier joins us now with more live from New Hampshire, a state at the center of that nationwide heroin epidemic. Bret, tell us a little bit about how you are going to do this series and about why you are in New Hampshire to start.

BRET BAIER, CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: Well, first of all, we're here at Robie's Country Store which you may know is kind of an iconic place in New Hampshire, political lore in Hooksett, New Hampshire. We wanted to come here to New Hampshire because the first in the nation primary was pretty much where one of the places we started this race. This is our last road show here in New Hampshire. And we wanted to kick it off, Juan, with this series, issues that matter. And as you mentioned, it starts tonight with drug addiction. This is number 10. New Hampshire happens to be one of the nations highest in the per capita rate of addiction. Some 258 people have already died this year from opioid or heroin. It's expected to be 500 by the end of the year. So it's a major problem here. Rick Leventhal takes a deep look at the issue, travels around on some raids in this area. And it's not just here in this region, but obviously the country that this is a major problem.

WILLIAMS: You know Bret I'm just so impressed, because right now there's a huge number of voters who say, we're not talking issues. But you are willing to do this. And I, I just wonder, you think the people will pay attention?

BAIER: I hope they do, because -- you are right, I mean this -- I heard somebody the other day say this election has been the Seinfeld election, about nothing, because there hasn't been a lot of deep dive -- diving on the issues. And we thought, as we close up this campaign, how important it is to really dig into some of these issues the people said they care about. So we start with drug addiction -- addiction. And then we have immigration tomorrow night. Foreign policy is next; Climate change, health care, the federal deficit, race relations, education, terrorism, and of course, the number one issue on everybody's mind, the economy. And that's where we end it right before Election Day.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I actually want to bring up a story that we've been covering the last couple days with the Defense Secretary Ash Carter, Bret, deciding to suspend all efforts to collect money from the National Guard, men and women that served for those enlistment bonuses.

BAIER: Yeah. That was a non-starter. I mean you knew this was not going to last long because, politically, that's just untenable in an election year to have this claw back to bonuses that national guardsmen got, you know, a decade ago or longer. So even though it's in California where many of those races are not going to be, you know it's pretty democratic California. Politically, the administration and the Pentagon could not -- could not deal with that. So I think it was expected it was going to come to an end, and the official end happened today.

GUILFOYLE: What about the people, though that started to pay or that had their wages garnished and they took it out and said, you know, you owe us this money. That's what my concern. Are they going to get that back?

BAIER: Well, I think they're going to get that back. And I think they're going to make an across the board determination that they're not going to go back after that money. But that is a follow-up to this story, Kimberly. That's definitely worth, worth doing because the Pentagon is making an across the board statement that they're not going to ask for that money back.

WILLIAMS: Eric Bolling.

BOLLING: So Bret, I think it's a fantastic idea to hit these hot topics. And I love that you are starting with the opioids and the prescriptions. It kills tens of thousands of people a year, even more than car accidents and suicides. But -- the question I have for you, Bret, our chief political anchor, always pointing down the middle -- you have had access to Hillary Clinton -- the town hall. I'm thinking about it's a great town hall. If she is president, if she's POTUS 45, do you think she will provide you and Fox with the access, fair and balanced access that someone else might not -- that someone else might?

BAIER: I mean we hope so. It's the number one news channel. And as you know, we get a lot of eyeballs. And independents and Democrats and Republicans alike. So I think they realize the power of FOX News.

And if that happens, I think much like the Obama administration. You know, when I took over for Brit Hume, January 5, 2009, sitting in the anchor chair, people were telling me as I was doing interviews taking over "Special Report" they were saying, they were saying, "You guys are dead. You're no longer. Because President Obama and this administration is never going to give you the time of day."

We had rocky times, but we always got questions answered and issues answered. And I interviewed the president, and many others have at FOX, too. So I think if it's a President Clinton, I'm sure we'll have access just like the others.

WILLIAMS: Dana Perino.

PERINO: So Bret, on this topic tonight that you're going to talk about, I'm curious about what the officials there on the ground, state and local officials, police, law enforcement, what do they think they need from the federal government in order to wipe this off the list of a top ten concern?

BAIER: That is a great question, Dana. And actually, immigration and border enforcement is a big issue here in New Hampshire because of the drug problem. Not because there are a ton of illegal immigrants here in New Hampshire. In fact, that number is something like 1 percent or very small.

But the issue is about drugs and the thought that they're coming across the border in increasingly powerful doses that are essentially killing people. I mean, every day you see these raids, and people are dying. It is -- this story tonight is going to shock you. Rick Leventhal has put together a really amazing piece. And we're going to give all these pieces time; and we're going to dig in and try to lift up some issues that, no matter who is president, we as a country are going to have to deal with.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: So Greg, I tell you, your show will be a success if we can get Greg Gutfeld to pay attention -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Actually, I -- not on the list -- and people think I'm crazy, because I pay so much attention to this. But it is not on your list, nor is it of any concern to any political leader...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, boy.

GUTFELD: ... is the rise of artificial intelligence. It is an inevitable consequence as we recursively develop our intelligence so that super intelligence makes the machines smarter than us. We are going to be in for a hell of a future. I don't even know if you're actually Bret Baier. What are you? Who got to you, Bret? Did Siri get to you?

BAIER: A cyborg.

GUTFELD: Yes. You're a cyborg.

BAIER: We -- it was not on -- it was not on the list on our poll. This may be a mechanical fly. I'm not sure.

GUTFELD: It's a drone.

GUILFOYLE: It's a robot fly.

BAIER: It might be a drone. It might be a drone. But I think future technology is an issue. But maybe not the concern about artificial intelligence in the things that matter for people. But we'll see.

GUTFELD: It will be. It will be too late, Bret. When people care, it will be too late.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, Bret Baier is so professional, even in the face of your insanity.

GUTFELD: I'm not joking.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

GUTFELD: If you read up on artificial intelligence, it is probably one of the top issues we're facing in this current...

WILLIAMS: Well, Bret, I think you're Bret Baier. I trust you're Bret Baier.

BAIER: Greg, we'll be back.

WILLIAMS: And I trust in Bret Baier to give us a great show on all these top issues in the campaign. Bret, I'm going to encourage the audience, please watch. It begins tonight on "Special Report." Don't forget to watch part one of "Issues That Matter" on "Special Report."

Straight ahead, actual fighting words between Vice President Biden and Donald Trump. That ugly exchange next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: SAMMY HAGAR, "I CAN'T DRIVE 55")

GUTFELD: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Is that, like, the birthday song? I don't know.

Hillary Clinton says since the second debate, "When they go low, we go high." Her surrogates aren't following that moral code, however. Elizabeth Warren and Vice President Biden haven't exactly been taking the high road on the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Get this, Donald. Nasty women are tough. Nasty women are smart. And nasty women vote. And on November 8, we nasty women are going to march our nasty feet to cast our nasty votes to get you out of our lives forever.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The press asks me don't I wish I were debating him? No, I wish we were in high school and I could take him behind the gym. That's what I wish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Trump always says he's a counter puncher, and he doesn't shy away from a fight. His response? This.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Did you see where Biden wants to take me to the back of the barn? Me. He wants to. I'd love that. I'd love that. Mr. Tough Guy, you know. He's Mr. Tough Guy. You know when he's Mr. Tough guy? When he's standing behind a microphone by himself. That's when he's -- he wants to bring me to the back of the barn. Some things in life you could really love doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right. So what do you think? How low can they go, Bolling?

BOLLING: I'd love to see this.

GUILFOYLE: I knew it.

BOLLING: Pay per view.

GUTFELD: At the Villages.

BOLLING: Break the record for pay per view.

GUILFOYLE: At The Villages.

BOLLING: I think I give it Trump minus $100 or so. A slight favorite to Trump.

GUILFOYLE: He's got the reach.

BOLLING: He's bigger.

GUILFOYLE: Long arms.

BOLLING: Are they about the same age?

PERINO: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, this conduct, what do you -- you're like what is happening?

PERINO: Nothing would surprise me. I think "SNL" could have their first skit, though. It's already written.

BOLLING: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but listen, so if they're trying to take the moral high ground against Trump saying, you know, "He goes low, we go high," is it really a good idea for her surrogates, for the vice president to say stuff?

PERINO: Yes, it is.

GUILFOYLE: It's a good idea for Biden to...

PERINO: I don't like it. Especially when Elizabeth Warren is up there, they're energized by it. This is what election -- this election has come down to.

One of the things that Biden -- I read an article this week. He was quoted talking to a group of Hillary Clinton supporters and volunteers saying, you have to understand that she -- we have to be her voice. Because she's -- he didn't say policy wonk -- basically, like, she's not going to this for herself. We need to do it for her and give her the voice. And I think that's what he was trying to do here.

Plus, they're both talking off the top of their head. They're not, like, reading teleprompters. Watching 70-year-old men fight? Come on. Seriously.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, seriously. Greg.

GUTFELD: OK. The problem with team sport politics is that we think insults occur within a vacuum. Liz Warren was saying "nasty" because Trump had called Hillary a nasty woman. So sometimes we put on these blinders and obscure reality, and we forget that everybody is doing this.

Having said that, just the image of nasty feet...

GUILFOYLE: It's so scary, right?

GUTFELD: I don't care if you're a male or a female or other, the image of nasty feet, it's not something you want to leave with people. Get some Gold Bond triple action. That works for me. For the record, I have beautiful, dainty feet, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes?

GUTFELD: I've been sending you anonymous pictures of them.

GUILFOYLE: The last one I got from you was your feet in a little mani-pedi tub with a goldfish nibbling at your skin.

GUTFELD: That was me. Did you see the tattoo of you on the heel?

GUILFOYLE: God, what a weirdo. I'm glad it's out in the open. Juan, help.

WILLIAMS: Actually, I was going to say I thought Greg was very fair in saying that that was a response to a comment made about nasty women.

And similarly, the whole fighting thing, which is, as Dana pointed out, kind of 70-year-old guys, how ridiculous.

GUTFELD: You're close.

WILLIAMS: I am, I have to tell you. But that came up in response to what Trump had to say about groping women and the like. And then Biden saying, "Oh, yes, you know," and he would be defending America's women and so forth. Gallant.

GUILFOYLE: Biden is a great massager. Remember the massaging situation?

GUTFELD: That's true.

WILLIAMS: But the overall impact reminds me of what we're talking about with Bret Baier, that, you know, it's -- this is not a campaign of serious issues for the most part. Although I mean, there are strong divisions over lots of issues. But you wouldn't say that this was a policy wonk election, would you?

GUTFELD: Well, there's big -- no, there's big stuff going on. There's -- it's quite -- I would dispute the idea that this is a light election. I think this is a heavy, angry election.

WILLIAMS: No, no. But I'm saying, for example, you can't even say that Trump fits the Republican model on so many issues.

GUTFELD: Of course, yes. Yes, yes.

BOLLING: Eleven Supreme Court justices he's put up. He said he would pick one for Scalia's seat from that list. She clearly will not be anywhere near as conservative as any of those 11 on that list.

WILLIAMS: No. She's not -- she's not a Republican.

BOLLING: That's an issue that's very heavy.

WILLIAMS: You know what? For people who are looking for a reason to stick with a guy they have no other reason to stick with...

BOLLING: Well, it's a pretty good one. It's pretty darn good one.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I would like to close by saying, I find Bret Baier very professional. Watch the show.

BOLLING: How did that...?

GUTFELD: Yes, that was the previous block, Kimberly. Where have you been?

GUILFOYLE: I don't care. Watch the show at 6.

GUTFELD: I care. We need continuity. Everybody is going to be writing about this on their blogs.

GUILFOYLE: Whatever. Jealous.

Coming up, the war of words between the nominees today on the trail. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Thirteen days to go, here's some of what happened today on the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Today he's in Washington, D.C., to open a new luxury hotel.

While the hotel may be new, it's the same old story. He relied on undocumented workers to make his project cheaper. And most of the products in the rooms were made overseas. And he even sued to get his taxes lowered.

You can talk a good game, but let's look at the facts. And the facts show, he has stiffed American workers, he has stiffed American businesses.

TRUMP: I think it's so unfair. Because you know, Hillary Clinton goes to see an Adele concert last night. And everybody says, wasn't that nice? Isn't that wonderful? But I can't take one hour off to cut a ribbon at one of the great hotels of the world? I mean, I think I'm entitled to it. S

he does one stop because she has no energy. She's got nothing going. She does one stop, and nobody complains about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK. Kimberly, what do you think of that?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, look, he has been consistent in the message that he's the high-energy guy, that none of the Republicans were, that she's not. But her voice does sound like it's going. But of course, it's 13 days out. And so this is all, you know, steam ahead for her.

But, you know, he's going and he's actually making some gains, it seems. And it's tightening. So this is getting pretty fascinating.

PERINO: Later today, Juan, Vice Presidential nominee Mike Pence will be in Utah. So he's not in D.C. He had to go to Utah to try to shore things up, which he might be able to do.

WILLIAMS: Well, he might be able to, but what it means, Dana, is he's not somewhere else, where he could actually be making inroads. Utah should be a red state. But it' not.

PERINO: It's been for a long time.

WILLIAMS: Well, I will say I'm amazed -- and I think it's not only me, but what I hear from Republicans, they're amazed. This is the second opening for the same hotel.

And it allowed Hillary Clinton to have Jose Andres, the chef...

PERINO: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: ... with her down in Florida, speaking Spanish and trying to get Latinos and say, "Hey, Trump is suing me, because I don't want anything to do with him and his hotel."

And don't forget: he was also at Doral just, I thin, yesterday or the day before. So I mean, I guess he's promoting his brand more than he's promoting his campaign at this point.

GUILFOYLE: A breach of contract.

PERINO: Maybe it's all one and the same. Right?

BOLLING: Doral was in Florida. And it was -- it's a swing state, a battleground. So it didn't really hurt him for doing that.

I agree, if she wants to go to an Adele concert, great. Knock herself out. But don't give me grief for wanting to take an hour out and, you know, open a hotel. Utah is not a fully red state right now because of the never Trumper who's in the race and taking 20 percent. If he weren't in the race, it would be solidly red. That would be clear.

Real quickly, Juan and I have had this whole talk about methodology on polls and internals and margin of errors and degree of certainties. CNN had a poll out yesterday, and it had Clinton up by five. And it was a surprise to a lot of people, because they all thought it was going to be wider.

But when you dig deep into the methodology of that poll, you look at there was 1,000 people called on the phone. Thirty-one percent Democrat, 26 percent Republican, 43 percent independent. That's important, because that kind of mirrors the nation.

But if you dig one step further and ask how many of those are likely voters? Seven hundred seventy-nine. So almost 80 percent of that poll is likely voters. And they skewed it to 37 Democrat, 30 percent Republican and only 33 independent. That's important because it over-polls the Democrats and under-polls the independents. It's important. That's why polls can be played with.

WILLIAMS: You do know that pollsters have people they call self-identify. They're not picking the Republicans or Democrats.

BOLLING: But they're putting them in the poll. They're counting their number.

WILLIAMS: OK.

PERINO: What do you make of all this? On this -- 13 days to go.

GUTFELD: About -- you know, Trump, he cuts more ribbons than a pro gift wrapper. Opening a new hotel in D.C., that to me is refreshing, because it returns to the early definition of someone in government service. You had another job.

All of our Founding Fathers had jobs or so I'm making up, because I really don't know. I wasn't much into history.

GUILFOYLE: Ask O'Reilly.

GUTFELD: O'Reilly would know this. But our old -- politicians actually had jobs.

PERINO: ... have a job.

GUTFELD: Nowadays, all politicians are lawyers, and they're lawyers in order to be politicians.

GUILFOYLE: The professional politician.

GUTFELD: I don't like that. I'd rather have every single politician have another job. That they have to go home and do.

PERINO: Make that a requirement.

GUILFOYLE: Jobs, jobs, jobs.

WILLIAMS: Got to vote for them.

PERINO: All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "One More Thing" -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. It's time for "Kimberly's Food Court."

GUTFELD: You will never get this right, will you?

GUILFOYLE: Well, you know what? No one is clear to me, am I supposed to do the la, la, la? Or do I do it through the thing and then do it? It's confusing.

GUTFELD: It is.

GUILFOYLE: Today is National Pumpkin Day, in case you haven't noticed. Which I think is kind of cute.

GUTFELD: Look at that pumpkin.

GUILFOYLE: Because it's like Halloween. And let's get a close-up of this delicious vegetable fruit situation.

GUTFELD: Yes, look at him. He's thrilled. He has no face.

GUILFOYLE: So I've got a pumpkin and pumpkin doughnuts -- because I'm also very friendly, unlike Greg -- for everyone here at the table. And you'd be surprised. Everyone was interested in one of these pumpkin doughnuts. And here's a few facts real quick from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. All 50 U.S. states produce some pumpkins. But about one half of the total is grown in these six states: Illinois -- name one.

PERINO: Iowa.

BOLLING: Pennsylvania.

GUILFOYLE: California.

GUTFELD: Wrong.

GUILFOYLE: Pennsylvania, yes. Michigan and New York.

PERINO: New York.

GUTFELD: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Correct. And this is fabulous farmers out there who I love that are raising all these beautiful pumpkins.

PERINO: It smells good.

GUTFELD: You are out of your gourd. Eric.

GUILFOYLE: But it looks great.

BOLLING: Not to self: don't eat right before you do "One More Thing." All right. Here we go.

Top -- top four pay-to-play schemes by the Clinton Foundation. No. 1 in my opinion, the Russians and Uranium One. CEO of Uranium One put $2.4 million into the Clinton Foundation. They got 20 percent of U.S. uranium deal.

G.E., 900 grand by Jeff Immelt. He gets a massive refinery deal with Algeria.

Boeing, million dollars into the Clinton Foundation. They get a massive, massive arms deal. Billion dollars of arms dealing going back and forth with Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries.

And then we all know about the Moroccan -- the king of Morocco putting 12 million bucks and getting direct access to Secretary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: Wait a second. Do these pumpkin lattes -- is this really fattening?

GUTFELD: Yes, it is. Juan.

PERINO: Doesn't count on National Pumpkin Day.

WILLIAMS: I found a wonderful website today. It really stopped me in my tracks. It's called IWaited96Years.com. The site features women born before 1920. That's when the 19th Amendment passed allowing women to vote.

The women here speak about what it means to vote for the first time for a female presidential candidate. There are dozens of stories. Here are two amazing ones, just to let you know.

Catherine Blood Hoffman (ph) of Tallahassee, she's 102, chose not to attend Duke Medical School because she had to sign a pledge saying she wouldn't get married, and she didn't think that was fair. So for her this election means, and I'm quote, "Women can achieve anything."

Then there's Estelle Liebo Schultz (ph) of Rockville, Maryland, 98, recently diagnosed with a heart condition. She's planning to live long enough to see a woman elected president. And she says, quote, "Too much to see such an accomplishment in my lifetime. Just momentous."

GUTFELD: All right. Dana.

PERINO: OK. So you know yesterday I said I would tell you my prediction on the World Series.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: So I don't actually have a prediction yet, but I have some more information.

GUTFELD: OK.

PERINO: I did an ABC radio tour today on the Jasper books. You'll get to do your "One More Thing." Don't worry.

GUTFELD: Mine is important.

PERINO: So I talked to two people today. Bill Wills, WTAM in Cleveland. He told me that the tribe is going to win because of pitching, defense, the managing -- managers that they have and attention to detail.

But Steve Cochran, WGN in Chicago, told me the Cubs will win because they are the better team. It's their time to win, and the baseball gods have taken notice. So that's a tie.

So I talked to Scott Sloane. He's from Cincinnati. He said, the tribe will win, because the Cubs are the lovable loser. And this is the most important thing, that the billygoat curse is ridiculous. So that's where I stand right now.

GUILFOYLE: Strong -- strong statement.

GUTFELD: Let's get to the most important "One More Thing."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Secret to Happiness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, boy.

GUTFELD: Now before we show the clip, I've got to tell you, one of the secrets to happiness is doing stuff before you go to bed that doesn't keep you up at night. For example, going to tinkle. Or if you have an itch, like if you're in bed and it keeps you up all night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEAR SCRATCHING BACK ON TREE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Before hibernation, this rather large bear knew that it was going to drive him crazy. So he went, and he found a tree, and he said, "Hey, I'm going to sleep for a while. Might as well scratch that itch before I go to bed. Because you know it's going to be on my mind the whole time."

And he scratched. He scratched.

PERINO: Looks like Ballou.

GUTFELD: Scratched some more. And then he returned back to the cave and slept wonderfully before he was eaten by cannibals.

PERINO: Glad you rushed me to get that in.

GUTFELD: This is important. Not sports.

Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" with Bret Baier, you know him, is up next.

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