VP showdown: Pence vs. Kaine

The vice presidential nominees are behind the glass we break in case of emergency


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 4, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and she naps in an egg shell, Dana Perino, "The Five."

Forget about the presidential debates, tonight is the debate that matters most. For these two guys are what's behind that glass we break in case of emergency.

Who are they? Tim Pence and Mike Kaine.

Sorry: Mike Pence and Tim Kaine. Or is it Mike Tim and Pence Kaine? Not that it matters: 4 out of 10 don't know them even though this is the "heartbeat away" crew.

This guy or that guy. What do we know about them?

They're white men, of course. In fact, they're so vanilla you're tempted to scoop them onto a slice of apple pie.

One has a musical mouth:




GUTFELD: And one has a dirty mouth.


MIKE PENCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This (Bleep) really is fun to watch, I'll tell you what.


GUTFELD: Neither were picked by the candidate: Hillary wanted her and Trump wanted him. Kaine and Pence: These mild extras from Allstate commercials were picked to calm a country worried about the other two. On a menu that only serves raw carp, Kaine and Pence are the chicken fingers.

So the debate will be those two fellas defending their guy or gal. Kaine will say Hillary isn't corrupt; Pence will say Trump isn't nuts.

They are the mousey spouses to their harsh partners. When their significant other is puking into a planter at a party, it's up to the Kaines and Pences of the world to say, "He didn't mean that" or "Sorry, she's not feeling well." Better halves are boring, but necessary.

Last, these VPs are religious, so the presidential choice doesn't have to be. They secularized the campaign. So instead of debating over abortion or gay marriage, we've moved onto vital stuff, like sex tapes and overweight beauty queens.

Glad we finally got to what matters.

All right. So Dana...


GUTFELD: There's only one debate for the VP candidates. Is that one too many?

PERINO: I think that one is just plenty.


PERINO: One is just plenty. I think it's good. It's interesting that these two -- you know, vice presidents are usually the attack dogs.


PERINO: But they don't need to be in this case, as you're pointing out. They just need to be the calmer one. For both Cheney and Biden, those choices I think really were meant to help counterbalance and show some gravitas, but they were also really good attack dogs.

Cheney in particular I think was very good at it in the debate and especially when it came to John Edwards in that debate which really helped George W. Bush because as Eric was pointing out yesterday, the person who usually wins the first debate isn't all -- look, 75 percent historically, they don't end up being the president.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Oh, you are in so much trouble on twitter now.

PERINO: Why? I've said that from the beginning.

BOLLING: Because they know. I know that Twitter just lights up. Oh, I can't believe you said that.

PERINO: I don't care about Twitter.

BOLLING: I think you're in the tank for this one. You're out of your mind. Don't you know this was leaving before you went in? I've never opened up more cans of -- a bigger can of worms than that.

GUFELD: Twitter worms.

BOLLING: Yes. I'm sorry.

PERINO: OK, so my point was going to be that 43 was largely seen to have lost that first debate in the re-election and he gets off stage and he thinks he's done just fine and the staff is like, oh, sir, that was not a good debate. He's like, what are you talking about? He goes down in the polls and John Kerry -- that race was very close -- John Kerry starts doing better.

What really helps stop the slide in the polls was Cheney's debate against Edwards because he destroyed him and that actually stopped the slide and then he was able to get his way back.

GUTFELD: All right. All right. Eric, you somehow made this interesting. What am I going to do tonight?


GUTFELD: Go ahead.

BOLING: It's almost like Trump and Hillary are pizza and chicken wings.


BOLLING: And these two are the veggies.


BOLLING: They got to have that. No matter who you end up voting for, you want to make sure that they have some stability across and you're comfortable, as you point out, one heartbeat away from the presidency. With both of them, I think they're both going to be very measured about probably trying to engage the other one in bringing the top of the ticket into the debate and they'll both probably push back on that and say -- certainly what I would do is stay with us.

PERINO: I think it's going to get fiery and I think that abortion and gay marriage absolutely will come up tonight.

GUTFELD: That's what I was going to ask Juan because you notice no social issues between when they have Trump and Hillary -- totally didn't want to debate though. But because he's religious and one of them is modified -- Kaine has modified his beliefs to fit the party, which is kind of hypocritical. Pence is still anti-gay marriage. This could be...

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Right. And Pence, of course, had the religious freedom deal in Indiana that was essentially canceled out by the large corporations in Indiana which said this is an opposition to our, you know, gay rights agenda and you can't do that. But the abortion issue has not come up and later in the show we're going to talk about Obamacare. Obamacare hasn't come up.

I imagine that also Pence is going to have to defend the wall and defend Trump on immigration even though Pence has not been a supporter of what Donald Trump has put forward on immigration like banning Muslims from coming into the country. To my mind, what is so interesting about this is these are the party regulars. Kaine actually was the head of the Democratic National Committee and a tremendous fund-raiser. Pence is a guy that's loved -- beloved by the Republican establishment, especially evangelicals.

I think for them, he will be the guy that could excite them that could get them going and support Trump. Right now they're just kind of like, yeah, I guess we got to go with Trump because we don't like Hillary. But he could actually excite some fires.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I think he's got you know, a couple of important jobs to get done tonight -- Pence does. I think, yes, he's got to perhaps excite or motivate the base but also some reassurance to say, look, I'm with this guy. I'm with Trump. For those of you out there that, you know, trust me.

Trust the type of politics, the ideology that I bring forward -- conservatism, a focus on religion and first amendment and whatnot. You can trust me and also the guy that I'm with isn't somebody who is a misogynist or has issues with women. I think he's going to try to do some of that to kind of coat the ticket and acceptability.


GUIFOYLE: And then in terms of Kaine, I think he's going to say, listen, I promise you, I pinky swear that Hillary is not going to put up a for sale sign up on the Oval when she gets in and influence peddling and that you can trust her. So I think that's a little bit of what they need to get done.

PERINO: Can add one other thing about the importance of this debate?

GUTFELD: One more thing?

PERINO: Well, not to the (inaudible), but I do think given the fact that the senate races are so close right now, it does look like the Republicans are going to be able to hold on but there's a scenario, a very real one that you could have a 50/50 senate which means that one of this two people would be the vice president of the United States and that position becomes so much more important in any scenario where there's a deadlock in the Congress.

BOLLING: So, can I ask a very, very legitimate question that I don't know the answer? Is this a debate to find out who these two are or is this a debate to find out how these people support their candidate? How do they support -- I don't know. I mean, I guess it's going to come down to the debate moderator to decide which way to go after because I would rather know what Kaine and Pence are about rather than how Pence is going to defend some of the things that he doesn't agree with Donald Trump on and how Kaine will defend some of the things he disagrees with Hillary Clinton on.

GUTFELD: I think that's what going to cancel -- I have a feeling there's going to be a canceling out because of that. I think Trump is coming out.


GUTFELD: He's coming out of my ear. It's a weird disorder. All right, I have -- what do you think will come up then? Speaking of coming up...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly. Coming up, the debate. I think it's actually going to be exciting to watch. I think people have this kind of weird low expectation of it and I think that's the wrong way to go. I think it's going to be fiery and I think that they've got to prove themselves here and try to do the best that they can especially I think Pence has to try to pick up some steam and some momentum that people felt that Donald Trump should have been able to get from the last debate and kind of make up...

PERINO: And one of the ways that he can do that is to try to hit some of the missed opportunities that we talked about with Donald Trump in terms of the Foundation, the e-mails, et cetera. And also I think Pence has a little bit of an interesting walk but I think he stands to benefit from the fact that Donald Trump is the outsider candidate. He's the out party candidate so how do you as Mike Pence was an insider but then left and was governor, what do you know how to fix Washington, he'll be able to say that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, joining the ticket of change.

GUTFELD: I just hope that Kaine brings his harmonica.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I tell you what. I think both of them are basically this is like the guy who's the street sweeper after the circus. They have to clean up the mess and in the case of Kaine, he's got to humanize Hillary Clinton. Get back to what the Democratic Convention did. And in the case of Mike Pence, I think he's got to explain birthers, racism, bigotry, anti-Muslim stuff.

GUTFELD: But the other thing is, 40 percent of the electorate can't name either candidate.

PERINO: Well, that's true that 40 -- I don't think that if you do those tests like, how many people can name the current vice president.


PERINO: And you get but a similar percentage.

GUTFELD: The current vice president can't name the current vice president.


GUTFELD: That's a joke. I love Joe Biden. That is our current vice president. Looks like we've got Donald Trump speaking. That's exciting.

PERINO: Are you tossing to?

GUTFELD: Yeah, I don't think I'm going to toss to -- I don't think I'm tossing to it. I think we're just going to stare at it. Isn't it interesting though this is the first real election where there's not real social issues.

GUILFOYLE: Well, then it's come up, yes. But that doesn't mean it won't come up at the next presidential debate or perhaps a preview of it on the debate tonight with the vice president.

PERINO: It will definitely come up especially as something that Hillary Clinton did not do, which she did not try even though she was narrowcasting to particular constituencies that would support her. She didn't talk specifically about gay issues or about abortion and I definitely think that Kaine is going to bring that up.

He will say that Mike Pence was the one who wanted to defund Planned Parenthood and then he will talk about the gay rights issues in Indiana. Conversely, I think that Pence will say that Kaine is a hypocrite for not being truly pro life.

BOLLING: And Dana, how much -- not how much relevance -- how much impact is that going to have on the election given...

PERINO: Hard to say.

BOLLING: ...that they're just the VP, you know...

PERINO: I think the only way that this actually moves the needle at all is that one of them spectacularly fails, which I don't anticipate either of them doing.

WILLIAMS: But I think that you have an opportunity for, you know, but for Kaine to say, hey, what about your differences with your candidate? Not only is it you have differences about allowing Muslim immigrants into the country, he also disagrees with him about climate change. A lot of this stuff is going to be the Republican establishment figure versus Donald Trump. If Kaine is successful, he's going to bore (ph) in there and say, hey, there's a real difference between you and the candidate. Help us understand this.

GUTFELD: All right, we got -- he's talking about the debate, let's go to Mr. Trump.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The debate will be a contrast between our campaign of big ideas and bold solutions for tomorrow versus the small and petty Clinton campaign that is totally stuck in the past. Totally stuck in the past. We are change. She is for four more years of Obama and we can't take that.


Clinton can't talk about real problems facing our country because she's the one who helped create all of those problems in the first place. They are not going to be able to do anything about it. To hide her corruption, she deleted 33,000 e-mails after getting a congressional subpoena.


Wow. How she got away with that one.


How she got away with that is a disgrace.


GUTFELD: All right. We're going to continue monitoring this to see if he breaks any news about the debate. It's very exciting. Meanwhile, Bret Baier joins us from the debate side with more on the showdown. Also ahead, Category Four Hurricane Matthew is pounding Haiti. The East Coast is on high alert. South Carolina's governor has ordered a coastal evacuation in preparation for the storm. A live update from the Fox Weather Center ahead.


RICK REICHMUTH, FOX NEWS METEOROLOGIST: I'm meteorologist Rick Reichmth from the Fox Weather Center. This right here is the center of Hurricane Matthew, a category four storm getting ready to move over the far eastern tip of Cuba. Unfortunately, not interacting with a lot of land, that means no weakening as it tracks here to the Bahamas. This is the future forecast for this and you get the idea over the next two days.

It's going to rake the Bahamas, still maintaining category three or four strength. So, a major hurricane moving across the Bahamas and the latest advisory at 5:00 p.m. just came in and it's now extended the hurricane watch down just to the north of Miami. Expecting to see kind of a western trend with the latest model runs and that means that the track nudges a little bit farther off towards the west. We have the potential to have the center of this storm moving anywhere here right along the coastal areas of Florida before moving somewhere across the Carolinas.

After that, lots of uncertainty late in the forecast in the short term Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and the North Carolina need to watch this storm very closely. We'll keep you up to date right here on Fox News. Right now, we'll sed it back to "The Five."

WILLIAMS: Tonight on the Fox News Channel, you will see the first and the last debate between the vice presidential nominees Mike Pence and Tim Kaine. It begins in less than four hours, 9:00 p.m. eastern. Joining us now, a man who knows a thing or two about what to expect the debates right there, who co-moderated three of them this election cycle. That's the chief political anchor and he's at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia. He's the anchor of "Special Report," but you knew that. Hi, Bret.


WILLIAMS: I had a, you know, I was thinking, we were all here pumping up the audience to say you've got to watch tonight. We had a record audience for the presidential debate last week, and what I know historically is the two biggest vice presidential debates in terms of audience, Bush v. Ferraro in '84, about 56 million, and of course in '08 Biden versus Palin, 69 million.

What do you think about tonight? Those two you'll note had women in it. They were the first -- the first one was obviously Ferraro, but then also Palin. The women brought something special. Tonight, as my friend Greg Gutfeld said, we've got two white guys. What do you think?

BAIER: Well, I tell you, this is not the best tease but I think both of these guys are probably going to try to not make news tonight. To try to, you know, get through, defend the top of the ticket, well-positioned about -- Mike Pence will talk about change and that fact that he and Donald Trump are the change agents here. You just heard Donald Trump in that appearance that he was wishing Mike Pence good luck and saying that they are the change.

And that Hillary Clinton is President Obama four more years and we can't take that. So I think that message will come through from Pence. And then Kaine will try to stick Pence with the temperament issues 3:00 a.m. tweets that you hear from Hillary Clinton.

WILLIAMS: Eric Bolling.

BOLLING: Hey Bret, so this isn't Farmville, Virginia, notably that the governor Kaine from Virginia, he'll be the home team player there. How does the moderator make sure that the crowd doesn't get involved in how more the debate in favor of Kaine?

BAIER: Yeah, so they do the whole preamble where the commission comes out and admonishes the crowd to really stay out of this. I will say that last time being in the hall, the crowd at the last debate did not towards the end. I mean, they were very kind of loud and laughing and clapping and weighing in. Elaine Quijano with CBS will likely lay down those same guidelines for this audience. There are about 600 seats in that hall and 100 of them will be students, the others will be broken up to the two campaign.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly Guilfoyle?

GUILFOYLE: Hi, Bret. So, I'm actually looking forward to this tonight. I think they both going to do a very good job and represent their party and also their running mates well. If you were to pick one area in particular that you think might be a big focus tonight, what would it be?

BAIER: I think they are going to both go after the top of the ticket, as I mentioned, and try to stick, you know, Kaine will be on the defense about the e-mail servers and the immunity deals one would think. Pence will be armed with that. And then Mike Pence will be, you know, probably on the defensive but have largely done a pretty good job of explaining Donald Trump and his appeal to middle America.

I think on substance though, Kimberly, that some of these social issues -- I think I heard Dana mentioning them earlier, they make them up because obviously Mike Pence as Indiana governor dealt with that Religious Freedom Bill and I bet Tim Kaine goes after that. Tim Kaine has his own defense about the Hyde amendment and abortion.


PERINO: Well, I'm curious Bret. I know that you've just said that you think that their goal is to make no news, but if you were one of these campaigns and you thought that maybe you could use a little bump, I mean, maybe they should try to make some news tonight. Donald Trump just said he's going to live tweet the debate, which actually might be the most interesting part of the debate. But wouldn't one of these campaigns want a big headline tomorrow morning?

BAIER: As long as it's the right headline as you know, Dana. I mean, if it's going your way and there's a moment, you know, a Lloyd Benson moment to Dan Quayle, that you are no Jack Kennedy, yes, that would be great. But if they -- one of them steps in it, you don't want that to be the headline to take away from the top of the ticket. I don't think, if you look back at vice presidential debates, that they have moved the needles that much.

Can you think of more than just a couple of moments that from vice presidential debates? I don't think many people can so, we'll see what happens. It could potentially be more substantive on policy. These guys are well-versed in their two parties.

WILLIAMS: Greg Gutfeld has a question about Tim Kaine's eyebrows.

GUTFELD: Do I? You read my mind, you sexy beast. You know, people think that this is going to be the opposite of the presidential debate. The debate was -- presidential debate was high expectation for drama, low expectation for substance. And somehow we think this is going to be reversed.

I have a feeling this could get ugly because they're going to have to defend each other's choices, the choices they may not have made, but their partner. It is like, you know, you're married to an obnoxious spouse that you have to constantly defend.


GUTFELD: I'm just saying, I think to my wife's perspective.


BAIER: Well OK, all right. I got it. I will say this, you know, like the practice partners for these two governors, Scott Walker of Wisconsin is playing the role of Tim Kaine for Mike Pence and Bob Barnett, Washington lawyer, is playing the role of Mike Pence for Tim Kaine. Those are not, you know -- I don't think they are going to upset the apple cart there with those practice partners, but I do think that you may be right because last night, we had a sound bite from Governor Pence and we had to bleep it when he said, can you believe this blank about...

WILLIAMS: We heard that. We heard that earlier. Yeah, Dana has a quick follow-up for you.

PERINO: Bret, I wanted to ask you this because in the presidential debate and actually throughout the campaign, neither of them have talked much about Obamacare but I actually still believe that the reason that the Republicans won in 2014 are the reasons that the Republicans should continue to talk about Obamacare, especially now. How do you think both of them handle that tonight?

BAIER: It's going to be a huge thing I think tonight and bet you -- we hear about that sound bite from former President Bill Clinton where he says Obamacare is just crazy. The people, small businesses are getting killed. I would venture to guess that Governor Pence is probably going to quote from that and Obamacare is going to be a factor in one of these -- whether it's brought up by the moderator, Elaine Quijano or brought up by Mike Pence, because it is a big issue as you go around these states and talk to people. They are affected by it, Dana.

PERINO: And it's not necessarily that easy for Mike Pence in terms of, you know, totally trashing Obamacare because as governor of Indiana, he went ahead and took the deal that Obamacare offered to the state.

BAIER: Exactly. So you know, I think Kaine will come back with, you know, they want to repeal and replace but replace with what and Republicans have been blocking. You saw president Obama wrote an op-ed in the Huffington Post.

WILLIAM: We have to do break in here. Hillary Clinton has come to the microphone for press availability. Here she is.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Campaign developments in the last day. Yesterday, Donald Trump was asked a question about post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury and other challenges facing many of our troops. And part of his response was that post-traumatic stress happens to troops who, quote, "can't handle it." He said if you're strong, you can handle it. Many people are now standing up and speaking out against Trump because post traumatic stress is not something that strong people can handle and we (inaudible).

Some of the strongest men and women any of us will ever meet have experienced post-traumatic stress. Donald Trump's comments are not just ignorant, they are harmful because they give voice to the stigmas that has led generations of veterans to hide their struggles instead of getting life-saving help. That stigma still exists and lots of people who need help aren't getting it. You know what doesn't help with that? When a man asking to be our next commander-in-chief stands up and says post-traumatic stress isn't a problem if you're strong.

Vice President Joe Biden spoke about this in an interview earlier today and he said that every morning he gets an update from the Pentagon on how many troops were injured or killed around the world overnight. We learned earlier today that an American service member was killed by an IED in Afghanistan. Every one of our troops matter. Their wounds can be visible and invisible. Most of us know that but apparently Donald doesn't. Our troops deserve a commander-in-chief who understands and respects the sacrifices they make.

Whether they're living with posttraumatic stress or they're POW's or they don't make it home and they leave a grieving family behind. And every American dealing with mental health challenges deserves compassion whether they've ever served in uniform or not. So, I hope the voters are hearing Donald Trump loudly and clearly. Now, I want to thank our service members, our veterans and all of our military families for their service and sacrifice.


WILLIAMS: That was Hillary Clinton talking about Donald Trump's comments on post-traumatic stress syndrome and its effect on the troops yesterday. Obviously, very critical.

Up next, President Clinton didn't have very good things to say about Obamacare yesterday but it appears he's trying today to undo the damage. Stay tuned.


PERINO: It's President Obama's signature law, one that Hillary Clinton has pledged to expand. So why hasn't the Democratic nominee been touting Obamacare more on the trail? The secretary has gone pretty silent on the Affordable Care Act, but she was asked about health care at an event today and brought up some of Obamacare's shortcomings.


CLINTON: Obviously I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that everyone has quality, affordable health care, and that means we've got to fix the Affordable Care Act, keep what works about it but improve it, get the costs down. Premiums and deductibles, prescription drug costs are way too high. So we've got to work on that.


PERINO: Her husband, Bill, went even further yesterday. He didn't have a lot of great things to say about the legislation.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To people who are getting killed in this deal or small business people and individuals who made just a little bit too much to get any of these subsidies, they are getting whacked. So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care, and then the people that are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world.


PERINO: After that generated a lot of headlines, the former president offered a much more positive assessment today.


B. CLINTON: Look, the affordable health care act did a world of good, and the 50 something efforts to repeal it that the Republicans have staged were a terrible mistake. We, for the first time in our history, at least, are providing insurance to more than 90 percent of our people.


PERINO: Eric, that first sound bite is, I think, why a lot of Republicans were like, it wasn't that bad. I mean, he actually kind of gets the joke.

BOLLING: How -- how do you go from "it's a crazy system," literally his words -- he said "crazy" -- Obamacare is a crazy system -- to "it's done a world of good"? It's cleaning up your own mess. Hillary tried to clean up the mess, as well.

I'll tell you where it's not going over pretty well, I'm guessing, is in Brooklyn at head -- campaign headquarters, going, "Can we just get this guy off the stage?"

PERINO: Not just there. In Washington, D.C.

BOLLING: And in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, as well. I agree. Keep him off the stage. Now you have Obama campaigning for Hillary and Michelle Obama, also campaigning. They're doing a good job. Keep Bill off the stage. If I were them, I'd say, "Hey, Bill, it's time to take a little break."

GUTFELD: You know, they can keep bill busy.

But anyway, it's true. Keep him off the stage.

The worst part of politics is when they know something is wrong, but they push it through anyway, which is ideology. Ideology trumps factual research or just commonsense.

Government intrusion is the left-wing equivalent of military intrusion. They never think of the next step. They just say, "This is good and the consequences will work themselves out."

So like Obama didn't think this thing through. He didn't have to, because the media absolved their responsibility in being the engine of criticism. Because it's a progressive idea. If you have a progressive idea, the media will say, "You know what? We don't care about the consequences. Go for it." So government intrusion has absolutely no emergency brake; and it gets worse and worse.

PERINO: And if you look at the states and what is happening, actually, there, including places like Minnesota, which was at risk last week, Juan, of basically having no individual market until they had some emergency step-in, some people think that the death spiral has already begun. And so President Obama tomorrow is going to give a speech trying to defend Obamacare, because it is his legacy; and yet, it's not going well, but she wants to make it even bigger.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it is going well. So let me just say I disagree with you. I think, in fact, the idea that you have 20 million people covered for health care who previously had no insurance is a big step forward.

And you stop and think about a lot of things. This is kind of a mirror image of what Greg was saying. You stop and think about the political ideology blocks that have been put in place, and you realize that President Obama, Hillary Clinton and now Bill Clinton have all said, yes, there are steps that need to be taken.

PERINO: Juan, Hillary Clinton is talking about this very issue right now.

GUTFELD: Hillary's more important.

PERINO: We'll listen to her.

H. CLINTON: ... viewers really understand. What that means is not just that the 20, 21 million people on the exchanges would lose their coverage. If you repeal the Affordable Care Act, that means every American who is insured through your employer will all of a sudden go back to the days when insurance companies could deny you health care because of preexisting conditions, where you would have lifetime limits, where young people would not be able to afford coverage, whereas now they can stay on their parents' policies until the age of 26. All that and more is part of the Affordable Care Act.

So this is a really big deal, because it affects, you know, about 195 million to 200 million Americans. And so people need to really pay attention when Trump says he's going to get rid of it and turn it back to the insurance companies.

And then one of the strangest things he has said -- and there's a long litany of those -- but one of them is how he wants to let insurance companies sell across state lines. In fact, he told an interview about a year ago, "Hey, I don't care if China sells us our insurance policies." I mean, imagine getting approval for your drug by calling Beijing. I mean, there is just so much that he doesn't either understand or care about.

So yes, we're going to -- we're going to tackle it. We're going to fix it. And it won't be easy, but it's a heck of a lot better than starting from scratch, which is what, unfortunately, the Republicans want us to do.


CLINTON: I think he made it clear what he was saying.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About preparing for...

PERINO: You're listening to Hillary Clinton, who was answering questions on the very topic that we were just talking about. Kimberly, your thoughts on her answer?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, you know, I think what's interesting here is she kind of was having to clean up a little bit aisle seven, because you know, Bill went out and spoke the truth; and then he had to walk it back, because obviously, they're saying, "Look, we're trying to help you win the presidency, and you're doing something that's basically disparaging one of the greatest legacies that President Obama likes to think," which I see Juan has ACA, Affordable Care Act down, not Obamacare. I noticed that.

So they're trying to say, "Listen, we don't want to make a problem." Because that's -- her husband, the stuff that he says affects her, affect people's opinion and the voters out there listening. So he wanted to kind of put that out there a little bit to put some criticism, and then she has to say, "OK, but it's OK, and it was one of the greatest accomplishments" and he backs her up.

PERINO: So he made the accidental mistake of telling the truth. And here we are.

Ahead, Leonardo DiCaprio and President Obama have some strong words for those who don't believe in climate change. They spoke together at the White House yesterday. You'll hear from them next.


BOLLING: Hollywood eco-warrior Leo DiCaprio sounding the alarm again about global warming, this time with a new documentary called "Before the Flood." While DiCaprio's crisscrossing the planet, trying to save the world, we should remind you, he's not traveling in a solar-powered vehicle but on carbon-polluting private planes and luxury yachts.

DiCaprio screened the film for President Obama at the White House yesterday and delivered this warning to anyone who doesn't buy into global warming.


LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: The scientific consensus is in, and the argument is now over. If you do not believe in climate change, you do not believe in facts or in science or empirical truth and, therefore, in my humble opinion, should not be allowed to hold public office.


BOLLING: And then, of course, the climate alarmist in chief chimed in.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have members of Congress who scoff at climate change at the same time that they are saluting and wearing flag pins and extolling their patriotism. That change our politics. And as Leo said, it's got to come from the bottom up.


BOLLING: Look, I'm not a climate denier. I just need to see proof that, A, we're causing temperatures, man is causing temperatures to rise and, B, this poses dire risks to humanity before we spend trillions trying to fix a problem we don't fully comprehend. That's just me. We'll bring it around quickly -- Greg.

GUTFELD: It's true. It comes from the bottom up, because he is an ass.

All right. What he just said...

GUILFOYLE: Charming.

GUTFELD: ... violates the first rule of science. When you say science is settled, the entire scientific method is being based -- is based on being proven wrong. Every scientist welcomes a challenge. You have to wonder about a belief system that doesn't want any challenges, that doesn't want any of their theories to be questioned. This -- what he is talking about is radical Islam of science. He is actually turning science into a religion.

However, on the other side, do not call it a hoax, because you play into their beliefs. Demand evidence, demand evidence. Climate change has existed since the big bang.

BOLLING: OK, Dana. In his humble opinion.

PERINO: Nothing humble about that opinion that they gave. But I truly believe this issue comes up in the vice-presidential debate tonight, because millennials care about this issue very much. We've read all week about the trouble that the Hillary Clinton campaign has with young voters. So I think Tim Kaine will find a way to bring it up if the moderator does not.

BOLLING: Mr. Juan.

WILLIAMS: This is interesting. I like what Dana said, because guess what? Mike Pence, the vice-presidential nominee of the Republican Party, disagrees with Donald Trump. He thinks human beings are involved with climate change, and it's real. So I'm very interested to see how he would have to handle this.


GUILFOYLE: So obviously, this is something that is timely and could be brought up tonight to try to show the differences and drive a wedge between that ticket. But I just want to know if all these people that are complaining about climate change, are they going to sign a nice petition to say that they will, in fact, pledge not to fly around on their private jets?

BOLLING: All right.

GUTFELD: I would never do that.

BOLLING: We'll leave it right there.

GUILFOYLE: This is a big deal.

BOLLING: Directly ahead, after all the hype, did WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange deliver on his promise to drop an October surprise about Hillary Clinton today? The answer next.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back to "The Five." WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange has been pledging for a while to release more damaging documents on Hillary Clinton. But this morning there wasn't the October surprise many were anticipating.

Clinton was asked about Assange moments ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Julian Assange this morning said he plans to release documents in the next three, five days that could affect the U.S. election. Are you worried that there's anything that could come out that would upend the race? And related to that, there's a report going around that you joked once about Assange, "Can't we just drone the guy?" Did you ever joke about droning Assange?

H. CLINTON: I don't know anything about what he's talking about, and I don't recall any joke. It would have been a joke if it had been said, but I don't recall that.


GUILFOYLE: Not a flat-out denial. Kind of interesting that she said that. When you heard it, Bolling, I saw you turned your head.

BOLLING: Yes. No, I thought it was -- didn't -- it was quoted. Her saying, "Can't we just drone this guy," right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but she said...

BOLLING: She doesn't recall saying it?

GUILFOYLE: ... she doesn't remember saying it. It was a joke.

PERINO: I don't know. I've not seen that actually -- reported that maybe she said that.

BOLLING: Right. We may need context on it. It may be part of a funny dialogue back and forth. But still, I mean, I think she said it. Right? It's been printed.

GUTFELD: But you know what? This kind of isn't what the topic was about. It was about what he did. He pulled the chain of all right wingers, while Alex Jones just loses skin over this thing, because Assange is a self- promoting clown who played everyone.

He doesn't like America. His whole endeavor is to subvert our country. That's how he got famous. It's not about what Hillary said. And hell, I don't disagree if she did say it.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but you know what's funny is, boy, you know, you hate...


WILLIAMS: ... to see people just get...

GUILFOYLE: How hawkish of you.

WILLIAMS: ... played like this. Because this was three-card monte on the political right.


WILLIAMS: Saying, "Hey, you know what? He didn't do well in the debate. He's having trouble with Twitter. But Julian Assange is really going to get her." And you had people like Roger Stone, right, tweeting...


WILLIAMS: ... "Oh, Wednesday, that's the end of Hillary." Well...

PERINO: There's still 12 more hours.

GUILFOYLE: Always a voice of reason, Dana Perino.

BOLLING: There's 35 more days.

WILLIAMS: Thirty-five more days. You're still hoping.

BOLLING: No, I'm not hoping for anything.

GUILFOYLE: So what happened here? Why say that and...

GUTFELD: She's, like, the Easter bunny.

PERINO: He's a self-promoter.

I saw Kennedy in the elevator bay. And she said that she set her alarm for 3:30 in the morning, got up and sat and watched that. And...

BOLLING: Oh, no.


GUILFOYLE: And then she went for...

GUTFELD: Did she make chocolate chip cookies and put it on the table with a glass of milk?

PERINO: She probably ran ten miles across the bridge and back, and then came here, did three shows.

GUILFOYLE: She did 7 minute -- 7 miles in 54 minutes, her quickest time. It's a fact.


GUILFOYLE: "One More Thing" up next.


GUTFELD: "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: OK. Earlier today I was walking up 5th Avenue. I bumped into -- drumroll, please -- anchor of "Good Morning America," George Stephanopoulos. It was very cordial. We shook hands.

But as I walked away, I was reminded of a gripping documentary Adrienne and I saw recently, "The War Room," about the 1992 election. It vividly illustrates the lengths Carville, Clinton, and his communications director at the time, George Stephanopoulos, went to to suppress the outrage stemming from some of Bill's most scandalous pastimes.

Stephanopoulos was the Clinton hit man who unapologetically covered up sex scandal after sex scandal.

It also reminded me of the time Hillary told Stephanopoulos they need to, quote, "destroy her story," referring to one of Bill's sexual advances.

Anyway, always good running into George on the street.

Also, I want to wish my awesome wife, Adrienne, a very happy 19th anniversary. Super mom, super wife, 19 years with me. She has to be a saint.

GUILFOYLE: Agree. Happy anniversary.

GUTFELD: You said all of that to George on the street?

BOLLING: No, no. I said hello and shook his hand.

GUTFELD: OK. Just wanted to make clear.

PERINO: He trashed him now.

GUTFELD: Yes, you wait till now.

GUILFOYLE: Dana had 18-year anniversary and Bolling 19 years. Congratulations.

PERINO: Thank you.

BOLLING: Thank you.

GUTFELD: Greg's Nutrition Tips.

All right. If you own a Shar Pei, don't feed him strawberries. Take a look at this poor soul. This dog was fed a strawberry and has yet to -- this has been filmed -- been able to eat it because it just can't get it into his mouth.





GUTFELD: Look at this. Isn't this amazing?


GUTFELD: Because he's...

BOLLING: You're not supposed to give dogs strawberries, anyway.

PERINO: No, you're probably not. Certainly not grapes.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you can't give them chocolate or raisins.

PERINO: Or blueberries.

GUTFELD: All right. Dana.

PERINO: OK. So this is fun. If you need something to talk about with your boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, whatever...

GUTFELD: Why do you have to use those terms?

PERINO: ... you have to check out Megan McArdle's column on Bloomberg. We're going to have it on our Facebook page. It's called "The Economics of Dining as a Couple. And you can go through, it talks about the different ways through economics -- if your kids are studying economics, have them go through this -- such as do you each order something separately? So that would be autarky. Do you have individual production with trade. So, like, Kimberly orders something and her boyfriend orders something -- we're not naming anybody -- and then they maybe trade something. I just didn't want people to think...

GUTFELD: This is dense.

PERINO: We don't have a -- we don't have a boyfriend to talk about at the moment, I don't think. Are we talking about one?

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow.

PERINO: I lost track. This is a really good article.

WILLIAMS: All right.

PERINO: Sorry, Kimberly.

WILLIAMS: Bien Stiller had a surprise announcement on "The Howard Stern Show" earlier today. He said he was diagnosed with aggressive prostate cancer two years ago at very young age, 46, and had the radical surgery to remove his entire prostate gland.

He's healthy now and telling his story to raise awareness for young men of the dangers of not paying attention.

This November, for me, marks seven years since, in my early 50s, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had the very same surgery. And I just want to double down on Ben's message, how important it is for Scandinavian and African-American men to know about prostate cancer.


I just want to say happy birthday to my son, Ronan. He's 10 today.


GUILFOYLE: We have some pictures of him. Real quick if we could show.

PERINO: So cute. And he's 10. That's a big deal.

GUTFELD: Yes. That's huge.

PERINO: And you've done a good job, Mama.

GUTFELD: He's into his second decade.

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