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The Five

Donald Trump's debate fallout

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 29, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Greg Gutfeld; this is "The Five."

A horrific scene outside New York City this morning, a commuter train coming in at a high rate of speed crashed upon arrival into a terminal in Hoboken, New Jersey. Killing a woman on the platform and injuring a hundred and eight. The train's operator was critically injured. He's said to be cooperating with the investigation. America's Newsroom Host Bill Hemmer is at the scene with the latest, Bill?

BILL HEMMER, "AMERICA'S NEWSROOM" HOST: Hey, good afternoon, everybody. I'm live here in Hoboken here. Governor Cuomo earlier today said we don't know what happened and we don't know why, and they're trying to fill in that missing piece as to why now. The engineer listed in critical condition, but apparently he is cooperating. Hoboken is the last stop on a 26-mile commute that starts way up the Hudson River on the Westside in the state of New York, but Hoboken is where 250 commuters had planned to disembark and continue their commute under the Hudson River into Manhattan for a day of work. It has gone like that every day of the week, on schedule, without interruption.

But today, something went terribly wrong, four cars being pushed by an engine. It was that force and drive of that last car that engine that pushed those cars into these commuters into the concrete barrier, the terminal in Hoboken that shattered as you saw the concrete and steel and glass literally fall around all commuters who are on board. There was one woman from Hoboken, she was on the platform. She is the only known fatality so far, and we believe that number will stay where it is. Witnesses describe this large sound, like an explosion, and then inside their breaking glass to get out of the cars. And one woman said she didn't feel brakes at all being applied, if that's the case, that was excessive speed coming into this station here. Governor Chris Christie, twice today said, there is no indication of anything, but a tragic accident. NTSB is going to brief in about 30 minutes and we'll have that live when it happens. Back to you guys now in the studio.

GUTFELD: Thanks Bill. We'll check back in with you later. Now to the presidential race.

It was all over the news: Someone has a weight problem.

Trump. He just can't wait to respond.

After Hillary hit him on comments about a beauty queen, what's he do? First thing in the morning, rather than meet with his advisers to assess his performance, he grabs the phone. Like a jilted ex, he went to air his side of the story, to people who will listen. Except he did it on air; yakking more about the lady's weight.

And so what could have ended Monday night stretches into today. And it proves how vital preparation really is. The lesson: Hillary's camp did their homework and knew what would stick in his mind. They found the beauty queen, lobbed it his way and he swung right at it. Essentially, Hillary dug a hole and said, "Hey Donald, here's a great hole to fall in!"

Now we could list all the stuff we aren't talking about instead of this. It's so easy I could make it rhyme:

Economic crisis, The war on ISIS.

Decline of jobs, Roving mobs.

Expanding automation, Unbridled immigration.

Obamacare, The Russian bear.

But, who's escaping pillory? Someone named Hillary.

Yes, the more they talk about Donald, the less they talk about Hillary. To her credit, she turned Trump into her own best defender.

Dana, from a communications standpoint .

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hmm.

GUTFELD: Uh-huh. Did he get played?

PERINO: Yeah, yeah. I think, well, clearly, I think that she had that ready to go whether it was perceived that she had won or lost the debate, because had she been perceived to have lost the debate, she could have tried to change the subject with this news the next day because we know that she laid a trap because we know that the miss universe, former miss universe had already done a photo spread with Cosmopolitan, she was prepped and ready to go, ready to go on all the shows. But, because she laid the trap in the debate, and he took it, then we are still -- let's see, this is Thursday, so we are still talking about that moment in the debate. And at this point, talking about the debate is not necessarily the best news for the Trump campaign. We'll get off with this fairly soon unless they want to keep it going

GUTFELD: Uh-huh.

PERINO: And last night, Newt Gingrich was keeping it going.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: And I understand the desire to respond, but driving each other's negatives down is really the only way for them to seemingly get ahead.

GUTFELD: You know Eric, we were talking a couple weeks ago about how Hillary was preparing a psych work-up of Trump and he had the biographer or his ghostwriter there and people wondered, is that really wise? It kind of help, right, to know where the weak spots are.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Can I just take a little issue with that. She laid the trap. I don't think she laid the trap. I don't think she -- what she did was skillfully turned it to her advantage. I think Lester Holt offered the trap when he said, "Mr. Trump" -- but remember, awesome these pressing things that you very eloquently outlined, things that are important going on the country, and we're talking about his tax returns, we're talking birth certificates. And then he said at one point, late in the debate, he says, "Hey, Mr. Trump, what about when you took issue with the way she looks? Does she look presidential?" I mean, that was the question that Lester Holt offered to Trump where he made a comment, and then she turned and said something like, "Yeah, we're talking about looks." Here's what I know about looks. Remember when you said this, so she was skillful turning into getting that talking point out there and then -- I guess he bit on it or whatever, who knows if he did or not. Again, I think that -- it was there is probably no place for that in that debate.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: I didn't see that, the reason to --

GUTFELD: He kept going.

BOLLING: For that to be one of the things. One of the --

GUTFELD: He calls in. You know, he calls in the next morning into, you know people he know will listen to him and not, you know, come after him when he should, you know, maybe just let it, let it die, Kimberly, let it go.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, let it go, or say we really appreciate and, you know, love the miss universe program and the pageant, we've had some incredible women that have represented the country and other countries so well, and kind of like, leave it at that.

PERINO: And then add, you know, the commander -- being the commander-in- chief is very different, Lester, to being the head of the miss universe pageant. I love that opportunity, that was great, but I'm focused on being president of the United States. Boom. Done.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's goodbye to the relevant questions.

GUTFELD: Juan, I still think Hillary set this whole thing up.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I don't think there's any question. I think she had the beauty queen in the audience.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: I mean is, I don't think there's any question. She's --

GUTFELD: That was a coincidence.

WILLIAMS: Oh, was that right? I see. No, no, I don't have -- I don't think there's much doubt about it. And I think that Donald Trump is a guy that can't resist the feud. So it's the Khans, it's Rosie O'Donnell, it's the Mexican -- the judge, Indiana Judge from Mexican heritage. He just loves the fight. He's a schoolyard bully, that's what he likes to do. But to me, this is so amazing. I mean just, I mean, the idea that he would have called her miss housekeeping because she's a Latina heritage? I just, what? What are you doing? And then the whole business about going back after Rosie O'Donnell or as Dana mentioned, Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani getting into this like, "Oh yeah, you know, we're perfect" or Trump saying, "This is no Mother Teresa?" I mean, really? Is, is Hillary Clinton's camp writing his lines? I mean, it makes you think when you know people come up to me sometimes I say, oh you know, think Trump was put in this by Hillary, so that the democrats -- I'm like, you're kidding, but now I'm like --hmm, maybe.

GUTFELD: No, it's as -- if he, if he, he just needs to prepare. He needs to steal a page from her playbook for the next debate. That's what this is about. This is about how do you prepare for the next debate. And the next question is, will he keep, he keeps hinting at bringing up Bill Clinton's sex scandals. Do you think that's fair game?

PERINO: Well, I think that from their perspective it would be. I think it's not helpful for the country and the future and like millennials are thinking, "Wait, what are they talking about? This was 30 years ago." But she brought it up -- she served up the ball, he'll want to hit it. I don't -- I don't know if it would be smart or not to do that, but she does have some things that she has said in the past about the women that were involved with Bill Clinton, I mean .

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: . to me --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: Yeah. That's fair game, but the thing is, she has answered those questions a lot, over the years. So she's just kind of practiced at it, whether you agree with the answers or not, she does know how answer them.

GUTFELD: But you know, you know Eric, we see these celebrity feminist come out and defend Hillary to the hilt, but you know, they never, they never talk about Juanita Broaddrick .

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: . or anybody else. So, shouldn't they be brought up? If you're going to champion Hillary's feminism, isn't it right to bring up that stuff?

BOLLING: And both things happen 20 years ago. I mean, coincidentally, 20 .

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: . whatever, 22 years ago?

GUILFOYLE: Uh-huh.

BOLLING: . with Hillary --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: . with Bill Clinton and this -- miss universe thing happened 20 years ago. Look, I've -- here we are day three and we're still talking about it, I guess, I guess speculating on whether he could. Look, if I'm with the Trump camp prepping him, say if they want to bring that stuff up again then, you know, they've been warned.

GUTFELD: Uh-huh.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it becomes relevant. You can make a turn on it. If she brings it up and discusses how he treats women .

GUTFELD: Right.

GUILFOYLE: . and then you say, well actually, look at what you've done to women and how you have made excuses for your husband and look at the women who you said horrible things about that made accusation against your husband. So he can turn it on that way and do it while it's still done in a tasteful way, but also kind of pointing out the hypocrisy of her statement of saying that she is on far higher ground than she is on these subject matters, and then it becomes like a race to the end to the finish. But nevertheless, that's where would slightly become relevant as just sort of like, you know, counterattack against her.

GUTFELD: Juan, they both have the same similar flaws, don't they? I mean, there is --

WILLIAMS: No, no --

GUTFELD: No? Now it just --

WILLIAMS: I'm just -- I'm very curious that to hear such smart people say, oh yeah, he fell into a trap the first time and then advised him to fall into the trap again.

PERINO: I didn't advise him --

WILLIAMS: Oh my, God. Because if he brings up this stuff about Bill Clinton's philandering and affairs and even allegations of rape, you know, this stuff is all tested. We know what American women think. You know what American women think -- it's beyond me because I screw up with women all the time, but I'm just telling you --

BOLLING: Tell us. Tell us.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Tell us about American women, Juan. Yeah.

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you, this is tested. And what it says that people say you know what, Hillary Clinton kept her marriage together and it's not her fault if her husband is a whacky guy who is abusive, whatever; that's his problem. And you shouldn't immediately connect it to her and blame her and make it a political baggage for her.

GUILFOYLE: No, you only connect it to her as it relates to her comments and conduct and not his.

WILLIAMS: That's fine, people say she's defending her family, she's defending her marriage, and people admire the idea she's been married 40 years .

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: . versus a guy who's bringing cameras in to watch miss universe work out to embarrass and shame her because she's put on some weight.

PERINO: I do think that if I'm -- so the next presidential debate on October 9th, it's a Sunday, we will have a live show right here, "The Five," we'll be here. If on --

GUTFELD: You sound thrilled by this.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I am. It'll be fun because, what else are we going to do? We would be working at home .

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: . or we'll be working here? But if on October 10th, on October 10th -- 11th then October 12th, we are still talking about infidelity in either of their marriages. I think that that would be considered a failure for both campaigns. Trump's best attacks on her are about that she was an elitist, she's tied to Washington, she had a shady foundation, she did terrible things to the country, that's where he should hope to be able to talk, be talking about. That's the kind of ground he should fight on in those next weeks.

GUTFELD: Plus, the media, we're suckers for this stuff. It's just more interesting than policy.

PERINO: I love policy, though.

GUTFELD: Yeah, but you -- you know --

PERINO: I'm --

GUTFELD: You like policy. I was going to say something else, but I already called you Elisa Simpson --

PERINO: That I'm a ratings downer?

GUILFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: No.

GUILFOYLE: Policy wonk, because --

GUTFELD: Policy wonk, that's what I wanted. But we, we, we go for -- this is catnip, political catnip. All right .

GUILFOYLE: It is.

GUTFELD: . Trump's got a new catch phrase. I didn't know this, a new catch phrase to attack Clinton. You'll hear it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Donald Trump has rolling out a new line of attack to commits voters. Hillary Clinton is not fit for the job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Everything you need to know about Hillary Clinton, sometimes referred to as Crooked Hillary .

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: . can be understood with a simple, but very important phrase, "follow the money." The Wall Street investors who have rigged the regulations against the middle class, they're donating to Hillary Clinton, follow the money. She put the office of secretary of state up for sale. And if she ever got the chance, she'd put the oval office up for sale too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: KG, that phrase, it kind of rings a bell.

GUILFOYLE: I knew a guy, one time, that had a show called "Follow the Money" on FBN. Look at the great phrase, as Greg has told us this is a phrase that's been around for a long time, but you know, it does resonate. When you say that follow the money, follow the trail, we talked about it as it relates to national security, et cetera. When you talk about follow the money trail, how his life suspending itself, OK, how do the Clinton fund themselves? They never met other people's money they didn't like. Look at the Clinton Foundation, and now he's making that tie into say, OK, will they allow influence pedaling as well if she gets back in the White House. It's that type of connection that they're trying to make to say, corruption, undue influence, selling the office of the highest bidder in terms of access, and we saw that when she's secretary of state that 60 people got meetings that, in fact, gave money to the Clinton Foundation.

BOLLING: Dana, and there's somewhere a hundred -- if you go to the Clinton foundation website, you can look up names and what on sold (ph) set of range of what they donated. And Trump points out, somewhere around a hundred and million dollars came into the Clinton Foundation from "Wall Street."

PERINO: Yes, so I think I said on the A-block that on October 9th, 10th and 11th, this should what he should be talking about. I think that -- follow the money is a much better chant phrase for the crowd and at Trump's rallies than lock her up, which is what they were started chanting up a rally today. I think this would be a much better place to -- to a, to -- to try to get Bernie Bros? Remember like, they don't like this kind of thing at all. But I also think the turnabout is fair play and that one of the things that Hillary Clinton can turn around and say, "You can follow -- we've love to follow the money, but you won't release your taxes."

GUILFOYLE: Tax.

PERINO: And you get back on talking on that ground. So, it's a little bit there (inaudible).

BOLLING: Greg, you like this little dainty is got going on there?

GUTFELD: I think it's, I think it's always good to, to stick to -- get away from the (inaudible) go for this stuff, but he's doing it in front of an audience that already likes it. Like he's got -- it's like he -- it's almost like therapy, you know, he finds a comfort zone and he -- this is something that he should have done really hard on the debate with specifics and done this kind of stuff. This stuff -- he already knows these people like him. He needs to convince voters and not already convince the apostles.

BOLLING: Hmm. I will point out that the networks broke away from commercial to take this speech when he unrolled, rolled out, to follow the money, the new name, new line of attack. You like it?

WILLIAMS: I like that. I think that the networks love Donald Trump. I mean, he is a ratings grabber. Everybody likes to watch Donald Trump, even if you're not planning to vote for him, he is just so entertaining.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But do I think that this is going to be a winner? No, I think Dana gave my response, which is that you can imagine Hillary Clinton sitting there and say, "Oh, so what about your taxes, Mr. Trump? What about the people that you stiffed and never paid? You want to follow some money?"

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: "Let's talk about these issues." So the debate was a disaster. I mean, it was just terrible. I mean -- and the polls now that have come out had made it clear, republicans, I know around here, at this network sometimes people don't to want say he lost, but I'm telling you, it's not a question at all.

BOLLING: But the polls haven't really moved --

WILLIAMS: Oh, the polls?

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: Come on, Eric.

BOLLING: There was stood that the L.A Times tracking poll hasn't hired them prior the debate, but that, that's OK. Juan points something out, "Trump, release your taxes." Should he do it before the election?

GUILFOYLE: Well, he made the call to Hillary called her out and said, "I'll release my taxes if you release your e-mails. You know, the 33,000 that you deleted and did the entire" -- no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Al right. Well, there you go.

BOLLING: There it goes.

GUILFOYLE: Bleach is effective. So --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Then he made that deal, right? But she's not going to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: So then he's going to say he's not unilaterally going to do it because he's already sticking by his story --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: So I wish he would have said .

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . rather than the 33,000 e-mails. I wish she would have said along the same lines, the mind speaking of following the money --

GUILFOYLE: "Wall Street" speeches.

BOLLING: Well, she -- let me take a transcript of the "Wall Street" speeches.

GUILFOYLE: Transcript (inaudible).

BOLLING: I want to know he told Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Citibank, who he loaned hundreds of billions of dollars to bail them out.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: What are you telling them?

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: What are you going to tell them going forward? Anybody? No. All right --

GUILFOYLE: I think that's a good one.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: That's what I said, yeah --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, but --

PERINO: I don't think of the --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think the taxes part is an interesting one. I mean it -- just looking to the future of presidents, presidential candidates, I don't think it's a good idea to normalize the concept that you can get out of releasing your taxes because it is an official government document. It is what candidates have done, it informs a lot of Americans, both republicans, democrats, libertarians, Green Party, whoever. I don't think it's a good idea to normalize that behavior and I think he should release his taxes.

BOLLING: All right. Are we good?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: Good to go. Last night, the Gold Star mom confronted President Obama of why he still won't use the term Islamic terrorism, his stunning response, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Tina Houchins son gave his life while fighting radical Islamist terrorism for this country. Last night, the Gold Star mom asked an important question directly to the president. If terrorist link their acts to Islam, why won't he call it Islamic terror? Here was his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: What I have been careful about when I describe these issues is to make sure that we do not lump these murderers into the billion Muslims that exist around the world, including in this country, who are peaceful, who are responsible, who in this country are our fellow troops and police officers and firefighters and teachers and neighbors and friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Then, the president took a veiled swipe at Donald Trump for using the language that he won't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The dangers where we get loose in this language, particularly when a president or people aspiring to get president -- become president get loose with this language, you can, you can see in some of the language that we use, in talking about Muslim-Americans here and the notion that somehow we'd start having religious tests in, in -- who can come in the country and who's investigated and whether the bill of rights applies to them in the same way. And that's a slippery slope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Slippery slope. Al right, Greg, what do you make of it?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You know what gets me about this? He thinks so little of us as a country that we aren't actually doing the lumping of people. We are actually doing the differentiating. We're saying, radical Islam is part of Islam, we are not doing the lumping, he's actually doing the lumping by not differentiating. And it's also -- it's will, it's a willful blindness that's becoming like legitimately real blindness. If a doctor is treating cancer, he's not going to call it indigestion, you know, you have to know what it is and radical Islam is a cancer within Islam. That is not lumping. That's distinguishing. And he refuses to do that. He's the lumper.

GUILFOYLE: He is weakening our immune system.

BOLLING: You didn't hear the dog whistle in that?

GUTFELD: No.

BOLLING: You didn't? Did you hear when he said, "We can't lump the billion Muslims around the world that are peaceful, whatever, loving Muslims." There are 1.2 billion Muslims. He's calling 200 million Muslim, not peaceful.

GUTFELD: Hmm.

BOLLING: Maybe those are the -- Islamist he's talking about. Did you get that?

PERINO: No.

BOLLING: You didn't get that?

PERINO: I mean no, actually I get it.

BOLLING: You don't believe it? You're not buying it?

PERINO: I'm not buying it.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: So, yeah --

GUILFOYLE: It was like, right, dog whistle.

PERINO: Nice try, though.

GUILFOYLE: Dog whistle. All right. What would Jasper say, dog whistle? OK.

PERINO: Well -- sort of feels that -- I don't understand what President Obama is protesting, because at this point it feels like we are angels dancing on the head of the pin. And that the argument seems so false to me, but he was (inaudible) --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: . arguments so much because he wants to be right when -- it feels like we all kind of agree, but we all just keep going around until you won't say radical Islam, just because you say about Islam, that doesn't mean that you think those .

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: . people are not peaceful Muslims, but he -- I'm sure that he has been told early on in the administration by the Intelligence community, and probably the State Department, that it would be unhelpful to American interests abroad if the United States was seen to be lumping all Muslims together as terrorists.

GUTFELD: But we --

PERINO: I'm sure that's what he's thinking.

GUTFELD: But we don't. That's the thing.

PERINO: I know that -- I agree with your argument, that's why I'm saying I think that, this is a stupid argument.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean it's like -- that was not a good moment for President Obama who generally speaking is an eloquent man. That's - I don't think that's winning him many hearts and minds, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Sure, I don't mind. I just thought -- I thought it was quite eloquent. I mean, I mean -- to me, the part that he said that was really impressive was he said listen, when you talk to people who are Muslim, and they hear us, especially the president of the United States using language, talking about radical Islamic terrorism. They feel personally as if you're talking about all of Islam. They show it's not about what we think, Greg.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: It's about how the rest of the world would perceive our president speaking to them as the leader of the free world, engaged in a war against terrorism that requires us to rely on our Muslim allies.

GUTFELD: And I think we do. We do rely on our allies, but we shouldn't worry about how the world perceives us.

PERINO: And coddle the allies.

WILLIAMS: I think it's important that you have to respect your allies. I don't -- why would they cooperate with you if you disrespect them?

GUTFELD: Because they don't -- their feelings are hurt?

GUILFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: We have people dying.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not a matter of feelings if you have a billion Muslims in the world.

GUTFELD: I'd respect...

WILLIAMS: You know what? You don't want to start a fight with them.

GUTFELD: I think they're smart enough to know that we're differentiating.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think so. And by the way, they are subjected to the same acts of radical Islamic terrorism. And believe me, they know it and they're not afraid to say it. So this is all conjured up in Obama's head.

Switching gears to something that's never happened in the history of Obama's presidency, yesterday Congress successfully overrode the president's veto of the 9/11 Bill that allows families to sue Saudi Arabia for any role in the attacks. The president is very disappointed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it was a mistake, and I understand why it happened. It's a dangerous precedent, and it's an example of why sometimes you have to do what's hard.

And frankly, I wish Congress here had done what's hard. I didn't expect it, because voting -- if you're perceived as voting against 9/11 families right before an election, not surprisingly, that's a hard vote for people to take, but it would have been the right thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: The bill is now law, and our defense chief warns it could have a devastating impact on our military. So Dana, how do you assess this situation?

PERINO: Well, I do think that former attorney -- I think the president is right, and it's hard for me to say that. I have friends, we all have friends that lost loved ones in the attacks, and so it's not easy to say that, but I do think that former attorney general Michael Mukasey makes President Obama's case very effectively...

GUILFOYLE: And he did today on the channel.

PERINO: Was he on the channel?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he was.

PERINO: To have foreign governments conflate what terrorists do to what we do, we know that Spain, Belgium, Italy, they have tried to bring lawsuits against our intelligence community and our military for things that they think we have done that is wrong. And sovereign immunity has protected those Americans.

I do think that President Obama and the White House legislative team probably deserves some of the blame here, because they've talked about this way too late. They thought that they would be able to handle it. It got away from them. And now they have this situation on their hands. Not only is it embarrassing to the president, but as the secretary of defense said, it also could be very damaging to the United States.

But, I guess we'll see how it goes.

GUILFOYLE: Eric, you have friends and people that you were very close to. And you were down there for 9/11. I know it's very personal to you. How do you feel about this?

BOLLING: I think it goes beyond that, though. I like the idea of being able to sue, just basis I like more transparency. I want to know what's going on; I want to know what all the facts are, all the evidence, some of the stuff is hidden, the evidence is hidden under the sovereign immunity laws. And I'd like to see it more transparent more open.

And I'm trying to -- just tell us what the risk is, like to the military. I honestly, I'm being serious, I don't understand.

PERINO: OK. For example -- OK, so for example, after, during the war on terror, let's say there was an interrogation that happened overseas. And it was one that, when it became known to the public that it was happening overseas and that we were having cooperation with governments, just say it's country X, and country X gets embarrassed. And politically, domestically they look like they're in trouble.

So what they then tried to do was to interrogate, basically and hold American citizens who were doing the interrogation work, was legal and allowed for them to do, but then they tried to change the law because of sovereign immunity, you're able to get those Americans back onto U.S. soil and to keep them safe from those lawsuits.

WILLIAMS: It's our agents. I mean, it's our agents who are over there...

GUILFOYLE: The intelligence community.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Working for us, if they break a law, all of a sudden, hey, they're subject, our government is subject to lawsuit. If we are using the drones, for example, and some country says, "Oh, you know what? You destroyed property. You killed some civilians.

All of a sudden, they're -- and not only that.

GUILFOYLE: They all have different laws.

WILLIAMS: The heart of this story really is, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Corker, all saying. "Listen, you know, we had to do this, but we know it was wrong." What?

PERINO: I know.

WILLIAMS: Holy smokes. Talk about political cowardice in America tonight. That's -- you know, you like conspiracies.

BOLLING: But Juan, they're being consistent.

WILLIAMS: This is not a conspiracy. This is pure political cowardice.

BOLLING: So -- OK, so therefore, where do you stand on the NSA?

WILLIAMS: On the -- what do you mean?

BOLLING: On the NSA? Do they break the law. Are they breaking -- are they being unconstitutional or were they when they were data mining innocent Americans?

WILLIAMS: Of course. What do you mean? We don't like that. We can have a constitutional argument. That's not relevant to this.

BOLLING: All right.

WILLIAMS: When you have GE, Dow Chemical, the chairman of the joint chiefs, the CIA director saying this harms American interests, there's no way -- all you're doing is saying it's politically popular, because everybody's sympathetic to the families.

GUILFOYLE: Right, I know.

WILLIAMS: But it's not realistic in terms of our national interests.

BOLLING: I still find the consistency in it.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, I've got to get Greg in here.

GUTFELD: The argument is that they'll risk cooperation, in terms of security, with a military ally. I suspect the first, what, two minutes of the segment just bashing President Obama over his cowardice over using the phrase "radical Islam." I think he might have a point here. Especially when 30 senators, after overriding the veto, 30 senators sent a letter to alleviate the consequences of the legislation.

So, the people that actually vetoed it are going, there are some serious problems here. So I guess what I'm saying is this is the most complicated issue that we've ever talked about. I think, because you have true suffering from the victims of 9/11. These families are true suffering. And you have this bill that could lead to more suffering abroad. And we have to sit there and you have to think about there's a political answer and there's a moral answer. What the hell do you do?

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: And you're doing it in four minutes on a cable show.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and guess what? And you're potentially compromising the ability for the intel community to be able to gather intelligence to prevent another 9/11.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Complicated. Prepare yourself.

BOLLING: It baffles me that you even have this opinion on this issue and the opposite opinion with the other, with the NSA issue. It's just -- it's just -- blows my mind.

GUILFOYLE: Commercial break, we're going to go over that.

Prepare yourself, because coming up, you are about to bear witness to a presidential campaign in complete self-destruction mode. Gary Johnson unable to answer yet another seemingly simple question on live TV, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The election now 40 days away, and it's not looking good for Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson. Fresh off his "What is Aleppo?" disaster. Johnson drew another on-air blank yesterday. This one, sort of dumbfounded, even more so than the last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Who's your favorite foreign leader?

GARY JOHNSON (L), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Who's my favorite...

MATTHEWS: Just name anywhere in the country. Any one of the continents, any country. Name foreign leader that you respect and look up to. Anybody.

JOHNSON: I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment in the former president of Mexico...

MATTHEWS: But I'm giving you the whole world.

JOHNSON: I know. I know.

MATTHEWS: Anybody in the world you like. Anybody. Pick any leader.

JOHNSON: The former president of Mexico.

MATTHEWS: Which one?

JOHNSON: I'm having a brain -- I'm having a brain freeze.

MATTHEWS: Name anybody.

JOHNSON: Cedilla.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Oh boy. On another attempt to reverse the damage, Johnson tweeted today -- and here I'm quoting, I'm not making this up: "It's been almost 24 hours, and I still can't come up with a foreign leader I look up to."

GUILFOYLE: Yes, there are no words.

WILLIAMS: Where do we go? OK. I don't know.

GUTFELD: There are words.

GUILFOYLE: Like when he was here, and I was speechless. When I asked him a few questions about national security and foreign policy, and it was just, I mean, wow. I couldn't even believe it.

WILLIAMS: What do you got to say?

GUTFELD: I just -- I feel for William Weld. You know, he's like the good cop that's saddled with the crazy partner, you know, or he's the spouse with an obnoxious husband who embarrasses you at parties.

And also, Gary cannot say he had an Aleppo moment. That's for other people to say. Because he had the Aleppo moment. You follow me?

WILLIAMS: But why did he tweet that tweet? I mean, OK, so when...

GUTFELD: Trying to be funny, I guess.

WILLIAMS: ... I saw this, at first, I thought, you know, people are just kind of jumping on Gary Johnson, because I mean, OK, not every American's going to know the name of every great foreign leader. Give him a break.

But then to tweet again that "I celebrate my stupidity and ignorance and the error," I don't get it, Dana.

PERINO: Well, there is no mercy rule in presidential politics, so I think that the Libertarians would want one for this year. I feel bad for Libertarians.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I thinks like they have a lot of arguments to make.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: This was a year when they could have really had an impact.

GUILFOYLE: What a wasted candidate.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Literally?

GUILFOYLE: Like I told you earlier, something's not right.

PERINO: I like him very much, but he does seem to have this cavalier attitude that he doesn't really care. He's like the honey badger of presidential candidates.

GUILFOYLE: Honey badgers are tenacious and ultimately attain their target, despite being flung 1,000 times, and they come back to life, which I kind of admire.

PERINO: True.

GUILFOYLE: That ain't this guy.

WILLIAMS: Yesterday we were talking about millennials being a problem with Hillary Clinton. In fact about a third of people 18 to 34 say they would vote for Gary Johnson.

BOLLING: Yes. And that's the problem. The millennials, the protest vote they call it, it's been Johnson and Stein. And as these Aleppo moments. By the way, I think the tweet was supposed to be funny, tongue in cheek. Like, I still don't care finding someone that I can look up to part of it. Even though he was deer in the headlights.

PERINO: Hashtag #sarcasm.

BOLLING: He was deer in the headlights, clearly.

The sad part is look, in 2008, 49 percent of millennials turned out vote. In 2012, 41 percent turned out to vote. Now they're saying these two candidates, Hillary and Donald Trump, are uninspiring. That number could drop below 40, 35 percent. I mean, the millennial as a voting block is becoming less and less important.

GUILFOYLE: Couldn't he have picked, like, one of the former leaders or somebody...

BOLLING: Anybody.

GUILFOYLE: Mexico.

BOLLING: He didn't have it. Kimberly, he didn't have it in his pocket. I mean, he's running for president.

GUILFOYLE: This is what I'm saying. You guys want to be, like, "Smoke some marijuana." Doesn't work out so well, does it? I'm telling you.

BOLLING: You can't blame weed for the fact that a guy who's running for president doesn't -- can't name one foreign leader.

GUILFOYLE: And where is his campaign? Up in smoke. Up in smoke.

GUTFELD: He should have said, "Two liters of Mountain Dew."

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

WILLIAMS: Wow. But in -- wow.

GUILFOYLE: Next.

WILLIAMS: This is the week of no preparation, fellows, come on.

GUILFOYLE: Gary Johnson.

WILLIAMS: Next, we return to the scene of today's deadly train crash outside New York City. The latest developments from Bill Hemmer, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: We to want go back now to the deadly train crash this morning outside New York City. At the height of the morning rush hour at one of the busiest transportation hubs in the northeast.

One person was killed, and we are now learning, at least 114 are hurt. The NTSB just announced that the engineer has been released from the hospital.

Bill Hemmer has been at the scene all day. He is here with us from Hoboken, New Jersey.

Bill, as the day wraps up, any observations about how many people are injured? The number has gone up from 108 to now 114.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I think the best news about all that, Dana, is there were dozens and dozens who were considered walk-ins to the medical center here in Hoboken, and many of them have been released. And they will -- they'll be spending the evening with their family at home tonight.

That's quite remarkable when you look at the extent of damage on some of the pictures and images we've been showing you.

I think two significant developments just a couple of minutes ago, No. 1 about the engineer. Four hours ago, the New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, said he was in critical condition. Cooperating, but in critical condition.

And now we learn, confirmation from the NTSB just moments ago, that that engineer has been released from hospital, and he will be set to be interviewed -- at what point, we don't know -- by the NTSB. Wow. What a recovery for him.

The other bit of news: there are recording devices on the locomotive. There are recording devices on the front car, as well, where that first car left the track and went airborne. That they will be looking at them very closely to try and find answers. And speed is clearly an issue, why it was going so fast, we don't know...

BOLLING: Bill, quickly, any information on the engineer beyond his status right now at the hospital? In other words, do we have his health history, and/or his safety history?

HEMMER: We do not, Eric. Great questions on both. That has not been nailed down.

Frankly look, we're seven or eight hours into this right now. The NTSB has been a little tight with the information. You can understand that.

The mayor here in Hoboken, she first came to office in 2009, so that was right around the time when Sully landed the U.S. air flight just off -- just off the east shore of Hoboken. She said at that point, it took weeks to give the public answers. And already, just a moment ago, the NTSB said they'll be on site for seven to 10 days.

As to his history, we don't have it yet. There's some rumors about his name out there, but we haven't nailed that down, Eric.

PERINO: All right. Kimberly, one last question.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I've got to follow up real quick on that. It's just do they do any kind of preliminary questioning? Because I think that's such, like, an information-rich environment. And if he's in a good enough and question him, whether it's in a side room there or not, because you're wasting valuable opportunity and time.

HEMMER: The only way I can answer that, Christie, is -- Kimberly, rather - - is that Governor Christie said twice today that this looks like nothing more than a tragic accident. He stressed that on two occasions. So I don't know what information he has, but that's the way he characterizes it.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

PERINO: All right. Thank you, Bill. We will have "One More Thing" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "One More Thing," starting with Dana.

PERINO: I love this story. I love a small-world experience. So this morning at the American Gas Supply Association meeting, they were about to introduce the charity that they help. It's called Rise and Conquer, adaptive sports center Rise and Conquer program. It's in Crested View, Colorado. So I was, like, wow, this helps wounded warriors relearn how to use their bodies that they've sacrificed a limb. I'm like, that's amazing, and it's in Crested View, Colorado. This is great.

Then, at the meeting, they have a young man who stands up. He's a wounded warrior. He was injured in May of 2008. And he's blind. And he starts talking, and he says that what happened to him was imagine that it was a beautiful day, weather-wise, in Iraq. He was protecting the brigadier general. The sky is blue. The desert is tan. All of a sudden he is now blind. And that what helps him is that doing these sports, and that moving is living and living is moving.

And I thought I know that guy. We know that guy. Remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE VASQUEZ, WOUNDED WARRIOR: Living is moving for me.

PERINO: OK.

VASQUEZ: So moving is living. And the world is still. I stare in a still world, and I can complain and dwell on staring in the darkness. It's really important to just keep moving forward.

GUTFELD: Wow.

VASQUEZ: And do something with your life. The more you experience, I think the more chances you have at finding something you really enjoy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: That's Steve Vasquez. And so he does all sorts of sports. He was -- mountain bike riding is a thing that he loves. He loves to go on the jumps. And so congratulations to him for keeping us all inspired.

GUTFELD: He's an amazing, amazing guy.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: All right, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So today is National Coffee Day, so where to get a free cup of coffee or cup of joe in New York City. Now, mine is from Krispy Kreme, of course, because I love a good deal. And they were offering a free donut in addition to the coffee.

All right. But I didn't want to be a big party pig. Oh, yes, I forgot "Food Court." Blah, blah, blah, whatever. But so we got something for the rest of our co-hosts. Dana, green tea. Greg says he's switching because he has gastrointestinal issues.

GUTFELD: No. Diner coffee.

GUILFOYLE: Diner coffee, Greg, but you're switching to green tea.

Bolling, Cafe Americano...

GUTFELD: Am I?

GUILFOYLE: ... of course.

BOLLING: Hot and black, hot and black.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, one black coffee.

PERINO: Not Americano without Eric.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, perfect. And with cinnamon. Black with cinnamon?

WILLIAMS: I love it.

PERINO: Really?

WILLIAMS: That's you. It's a little bit of spice. And yours was the green tea.

PERINO: I just had green tea. Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I just wanted to say thank you for our free coffees. Actually, I think we paid for Starbucks. There you go.

GUTFELD: We just do these food courts to get free food. We're that cheap. We're cheap people.

Juan.

PERINO: I know. I'm...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: All right. So last night "The Five" and staff went to the Yankees game. You won't see Greg, because he was bored and fell asleep. He doesn't like baseball. Dana was visiting on the phone with Megyn Kelly all night, Skyping.

PERINO: What?

WILLIAMS: Eric was actually playing for the Yankees. And K.G., she was busy autographs for the players.

But here -- the rest of us had a great time. Here are some of the producers, Allie, Amanda and Emily, looking lovely.

PERINO: Cute.

WILLIAMS: And here I am with Mina, who's Eric's producer.

BOLLING: Yay, Mina.

WILLIAMS: And here's our executive producer, Porter, with Susan, one of our producers, smiling and looking so happy.

It was a great night, great ending for the Yankees, by the way. Mark Teixeira, grand slam, bottom of the ninth to not only win the game but keep the Yankees' post-season hopes alive.

GUILFOYLE: God, I love a grand slam.

GUTFELD: Eric.

BOLLING: I'll go very quickly. You love these whiteboards at the end of the show, a little politics for you.

Key demographics for this election. The key one: Hispanics. Here's why. Check it out: 57 million documented Hispanics in America. That's 27 million voters. How about this: They're the youngest race ethnicity in America, 28 years old. Average in America is 37 years old, a clear decade younger.

Very religious: 55 percent Catholic, 21 plus percent Protestant. But this one right here: Did you know this, business, they're very, very business- oriented. Thirty percent of all new start-up businesses in America, Hispanic.

PERINO: That's why you should support immigration.

BOLLING: Thirty percent, one-third, massive. That's why every policy that these candidates should be focusing on, if you want this vote, is business- related.

And this one: 4 million Hispanic businesses owned in America. Up 57 percent in the last nine years alone.

PERINO: Good job.

BOLLING: Stay on that demographic.

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: You should mention it to Trump for me one day.

GUTFELD: All right. Let's do this real quick. You can just skip my thing. Roll this video. Not that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Greg's Birthday News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes. That's why I said skip it, because -- so we're saying a happy birthday. You know what his birthday wish was? You wouldn't believe it. His birthday wish was, "I don't want to ever eat cake again. I hate cake." So he made his wish.

GUILFOYLE: What?

GUTFELD: He blew it out. And then there you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(TEENAGER DROPS CAKE ON GROUND)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Aw.

BOLLING: Aw.

GUTFELD: That's it for us. "Special Report's" next.

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