This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," September 18, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I’m Chris Wallace.
Donald Trump does an about face on the birther issue, as Hillary Clinton returns to the campaign trail after a health scare.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary Clinton started the birther controversy. I finished it.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: As the world knows, I was a little under the weather recently.
WALLACE: Today, Clinton's running mate, Virginia Senator Tim Kaine, discusses her health and transparency -- as the race keeps tightening.
Then, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, head of Trump's White House transition team, responds live.
And our Sunday panel on Trump's suggestion for Clinton's security detail.
TRUMP: Take their guns away, and let's see what happens to her.
WALLACE: Plus, actor George Clooney on massive corruption and civil war in the world's newest nation.
GEORGE CLOONEY, CO-FOUNDER, THE SENTRY: Our job is to poke with a stick everybody we can, knowing that it's a long, slow process.
WALLACE: Clooney on South Sudan and presidential politics, only on "Fox News Sunday."
And our power player of the week, a preview of the Smithsonian's new museum of African-American history.
LONNIE BUNCH, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY & CULTURE: The story of the civil rights movement is not a story simply of African-Americans struggling for freedom.
WALLACE: All right now on "Fox News Sunday."
WALLACE: And hello again from Fox News in Washington.
We’ll get to presidential campaign and politics in a moment, but first, some breaking news. An explosion in New York City overnight has injured more than two dozen people, and investigators are not ruling out terrorism.
FOX News correspondent David Lee Miller is live on the scene with the latest -- David Lee.
DAVID LEE MILLER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, it's now been a little more than 12 1/2 hours since a very powerful blast injured 29 people, one person seriously. The explosive device was in or near a dumpster.
At this hour, there is still a massive police presence in the west side neighborhood of Chelsea. Streets remain closed. The public and media are being kept far away from the crime scene. Surveillance video shows the blast itself. Authorities hope that it will also show who was responsible. But so far, no suspects have been identified.
Three hours after the explosion police found another device nearby, a pressure cooker with a cellphone attached. It was removed from the scene by the bomb squad and it has not yet been detonated.
And a third incident is also being investigated, Saturday morning at a charity race in Seaside Park, New Jersey, a pipe bomb exploded. There were no injuries.
Still to be determined, though, are these incidents in any way connected?
New York's Mayor Bill de Blasio said that he believes the explosions was in his words intentional but he did not make any direct link with terror. New Yorkers are very nervous, understandably so and police say they have received a number of false alarms with suspicious packages. And just a short time ago, police in this neighborhood put up posters telling New Yorkers that there is a $2,500 reward for tips that lead to helping to solve a crime -- Chris.
WALLACE: David Lee, thank you.
Now to politics. Donald Trump is tightening the polls as he runs a more disciplined campaign. That is, until late this week when he brought up the birther issue again and then suggested Hillary Clinton's Secret Service detail should disarm and, quote, "let's see what happens". In a moment, we’ll talk with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, a top Trump adviser about the campaign, as well as the explosions in his state and New York City.
But first, Hillary Clinton's running mate, the Democratic vice president presidential nominee, Senator Tim Kaine.
WALLACE: Senator Kaine, what can you tell us about the explosion in New York City and the investigation of whether or not it's a terrorist attack?
SEN. TIM KAINE, D-VA., VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know, Chris, as of right now that investigation still under way. The main feeling that we have is concern for the victims and for an explosion of that size, the fact that there are no fatalities yet is positive, but in terms of the details, it's unclear. And I know everyone is looking to see what the cause was, could it potentially be connected to terrorism, no evidence yet, but I know that's going to be looked at very, very closely.
WALLACE: All right. Let's turn to politics. I want to begin with Donald Trump's comment on Friday night about what he believes is Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy when it comes to the issue of gun control. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think that her bodyguards should drop all weapons. They should disarm. Take their guns away. She doesn't want guns. Take their -- let's see what happens to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Senator, do you believe that Donald Trump in any way was inciting an act of violence against Clinton?
KAINE: I do believe that, Chris. I was stunned when I saw it, although he has done it before. So, two things.
First, Hillary Clinton and I believe in the Second Amendment, we support the Second Amendment, we do support gun safety rules consistent with the Second Amendment. We’re not taking people's guns away.
But second, this notion that he has done before, look, if Hillary gets elected then maybe Second Amendment people will have to take care of the situation, or his comment Friday night, or his statements in rallies. You know, I’d like to punch the guy in the face. He is using language that is an incitement to violence or an encouragement of violence or at least being kind of cavalier and reckless about violence and that has no place in any election, especially an election to be president, commander in chief of this country.
WALLACE: But to ask specifically, because what you're saying is fairly stunning. You believe it's an incitement to violence against his opponent in the presidential race, Hillary Clinton?
KAINE: I do. So -- I mean, use the other example. You put it in the context of other things he has said. If Hillary gets elected, we may need Second Amendment people to take care of this. What did that mean when he said that just three weeks ago?
And when you look at a series of these comments that he is making, I do believe it is an incitement or at a minimum an expression of indifference as to whether violence would occur. And this is a pattern that has been repeated over and over again and I think it doesn't belong in any race, much less a race to be president of this country.
WALLACE: Trump also made a statement on Friday about the birther movement. Let's take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it. I finished it. You know what I mean. President Barack Obama was born in the United States, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Senator, do you think that Donald Trump is a racist?
KAINE: Chris, I don't know Donald Trump, so if I don't know somebody I’m just not going to make that claim, but let me -- this is really important. For five years from 2011 to 2016, last Friday, Donald Trump has perpetrated a bigoted lie that President Obama is not a United States citizen. This is so painful because, as you know, when African-Americans came here in 1619 to Jamestown, all the way up through the end of the civil war, they could not be citizens. That's what the Dred Scott decision said. Whether they were born here or born elsewhere, whether they were free or slave, they were not allowed to be U.S. citizens.
So, for five years when Donald Trump has pushed this dig go bigoted lie, that the African-American president of the United States is not a U.S. citizen so many people connect that to the most painful time in American history where having African-American dissent barred you from citizenship in this country.
And what I hope somebody will ask Donald Trump is, when you were doing that for five years, did you really believe that to be true, in which case how gullible are you, how bizarrely conspiratorial are you? Or were you aware that it wasn't true, and if so, why were you trying to whip up the darkest emotions connected to the most painful chapter in American life.
WALLACE: Let's turn to Hillary Clinton's health, which also raises the question of her transparency because she was asked repeatedly this week when she told you about her illness and she repeatedly refused to answer. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I communicated with Tim, I talked to him again last night. We've communicated, but I am, you know, not going to go into our personal conversations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Senator Kaine, it turns out now that Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. She collapsed getting into that van at the 9/11 event on Sunday morning.
Simple question, when did she tell you that she had pneumonia?
KAINE: And, Chris, I actually answered this on Monday and then again on Tuesday. We talked on Sunday. I called her after the incident in New York to express concern and then we communicated over the course of a few hours and I learned right away when I reached out to her, and that was when I learned about her condition.
WALLACE: But, why didn’t -- why didn’t she just -- if I may, why didn't she just say it? Because this gets to the question of transparency. I want to put up a new Fox poll. People were asked whether the candidates are honest and trustworthy. Clinton's net is negative 30, Trump's is negative 19.
Now, neither of those is good, but by a substantial margin, Senator, the American people seem to think that Trump is more honest than Clinton.
KAINE: Well, you know, I would challenge that. I mean --
WALLACE: That's the poll. Those are the numbers.
KAINE: Right. But he said he would release his tax returns and he is not doing it. But, no, back to it, again, I was very plain with the press about this right away that that's when we --
WALLACE: But she wasn't.
KAINE: And, again, she -- I did say what she said which is I was not going to get into the content of the conversations, obviously that content is important for running mates to be able to share without being public about it, but the timing I think was quite clear as of Monday when I spoke publicly about this with the press.
WALLACE: All right. Well, that brings us to the state of the race which frankly keeps tightening, Senator.
In the latest Real Clear Politics average nationally, Clinton now leads by 1 1/2 points that's down from eight points in August. In Ohio, Trump is now up one point. Less than a month ago, he trailed by five. And in Florida Trump leads by less than a point. In late August, Clinton led by 4 1/2.
Senator, your lead is gone.
KAINE: Well, Chris, you know that I do politics in Virginia and I think you know my state, this is like every race I’ve ever been in. We went into the first two conventions basically tied, we came out of the second convention, you are right, with a good lead and it has tightened up over time just as I thought it would, just as I actually told Secretary Clinton when I encouraged her to run in April of 2014, I said, look --
WALLACE: But briefly, we're running out of time. If Trump is a bigot, inciting violence, why is it that Clinton can't keep a lead against him?
KAINE: Well, look, we are a very divided nation, Chris. We are very closely politically divided and, you know, what we're trying to do over the course of the end of the campaign is just compare visions.
Hillary and I have a vision for the country, stronger together, and that's the book that we put out recently with all our policies. Donald Trump also put out a book when he decided to run and he calls it "Crippled America". I don't recognize crippled America in the optimistic, can-do, upbeat positive spirit of the American people. But obviously, we've got a real case to make between now and November 8 that our vision of stronger together is the vision that Americans should embrace going forward and we have confidence that we will.
WALLACE: Senator Kaine, thank you. Safe travels on the campaign trail. Thanks for talking with us and thank you for bringing some props along as well.
KAINE: You bet, Chris. Good to be with you.
WALLACE: Joining me now, Governor Chris Christie, the head of Donald Trump's White House transition team.
Governor, I want to start with the breaking news about the explosions in New Jersey and New York yesterday. What's the latest on the investigation and do you believe -- have any reason to believe -- that the explosion in your state was an act of terror targeting that marine charity race?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-NEW JERSEY: Well, Chris, first off, as far as New Jersey is concerned, fortunately, there was no one injured, the race had not yet started when the bomb exploded. And so, we are very, very grateful for that.
The FBI is leading the investigation here in New Jersey, in coordination with the New Jersey state police and our office of homeland security. We have very promising leads but we have no one in custody at this time. And as far as terrorism concerns, Chris, it is clearly an act of terrorism.
Now, we just don't know who is responsible for it. Is it domestic source, a foreign source, we don't know that at this time, but it was done intentionally to try to terrorize the people of New Jersey.
So that we know, but we need to know who is responsible now, get them into custody.
WALLACE: I want to turn to politics and I want to begin with Donald Trump's comment that I just talked about with Senator Kaine where Trump suggested that the Secret Service detail around Hillary Clinton should disarm and, quote, "let's see what happens". You just heard Senator Kaine say Trump was inciting an act of violence against Hillary Clinton.
Your reaction, sir?
CHRISTIE: Man, I tell you something, boy, when a race gets tight, even a guy like Tim Kaine gets desperate. I mean, to imply -- forget imply -- he said that that was to incite violence is outrageous and he owes Trump an apology. Donald Trump was trying to make a point about Hillary Clinton wanting to have one set of rules for herself and a different set of rules for the American people. And that's what his point is on the Second Amendment.
But Senator Kaine should be ashamed of himself for saying that Donald Trump would like to have violence perpetrated against Hillary Clinton. It's an outrageous statement but just shows how desperate and scared the Clinton/Kaine campaign is now because this race is now a dead heat and they can't believe it and they are going to get even worse news as we move forward here because Donald is going to continue to do even better.
WALLACE: Do you think it's responsible, though, sir? I mean, the fact you have a security detail. Obviously, Hillary Clinton has a security detail. You’re not average citizens. So, to suggest that you might want gun control for the larger population but that doesn't necessarily imply to a public figure like yourself, is that really hypocrisy?
CHRISTIE: No, what it is -- the hypocrisy is on Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine's part. They want to remove Second Amendment rights from American people. We have seen that over and over again. So, I think what Donald was trying to do was make a point that, you know, she wants one set of rules for herself and a different set of rules for everybody else.
I think all the American people should have a right to reasonably protect themselves and in most states in this country that's what exists. Mrs. Clinton wants to change that in a very significant way. I think it's an important debate and discussion for the country to have.
But for Senator Kaine to go as overboard as he did this morning, breathlessly accusing Donald Trump of inciting violence against Hillary Clinton, it's outrageous, it's beneath him and he should take a deep breath, get used to the fact that this is going to be a very close race and stop all the craziness.
WALLACE: All right. Let's talk about another issue. Trump also tried this week to end the birther controversy after earlier in the week refusing to say that he now believes that Barack Obama was born in the U.S. Now, last September when you were running against Trump, you tore into him for keeping this issue alive. Let's look at what you said then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: I’d say that the president’s a Christian and he was born in this country. I mean, those two things are self-evident. Donald Trump has got to decide as we've seen, I’ve said this all along, he's got to decide how serious a candidate he wants to be and how he handles different problems like this are going to determine that in the eyes of American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: So, how serious a candidate is Donald Trump when he is still talking about the birther issue less than two months before the election?
CHRISTIE: Very serious because he said very clearly and unequivocally this week that Barack Obama was born in the United States, period. And so, the controversy is over.
I made my position really clear, Chris, on this both in the campaign and before that, actually. That was my belief and Donald has made it very clear now that it's his belief as well.
If you think, Chris, that anyone in the United States is going to go into the voting booth and either vote for or against Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton based on this issue, that people who think that are completely out of touch with the problem with the economy and jobs in this country, with the problem of terrorist threats around the world and here at home. Those are the issues that are going to decide this race and not something like this.
WALLACE: Well, I mean, respectfully, Governor, voters decide what is going to decide the race and as you may know, a lot of people are upset at the idea. They would say that Trump was trying to delegitimize the first American -- African-American president, so that's an issue for them.
I want to ask you about another issue in that because Trump didn't end the controversy, he continued to say that Hillary Clinton started the birther controversy. Question, do you have any evidence that either Hillary Clinton or any member of her campaign in 2008 ever publicly questioned Barack Obama's birthplace?
CHRISTIE: Well, just look at the comments of Patti Solis Doyle that she made, Chris. And the fact is --
WALLACE: Wait. Wait. If you're going to go there, what she said was that some volunteer in Iowa raised the question and was immediately fired. So, that hardly seems like they were pushing the birther issue.
CHRISTIE: Chris, you know, the fact of the matter is that that's what happened during the Clinton campaign in 2008. If they appropriately fired the person, good for them. But nonetheless the issue was raised by the Clinton campaign.
Listen, the fact is this, Chris, you and I both know that there's lots of things that go on privately and quietly in campaigns, in whisper campaigns, there are people whispering in your ear all the time, trying to get you to report things that they are unwilling yet to say publicly. And if you look back at that 2000 race -- the 2008 race, rather, between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, it was an incredibly bitter angry race on both sides where a lot of things were said both publicly and privately off the record and on background to members of the media that probably both would like to take back at this point.
CHRISTIE: But the fact of the matter is that Donald Trump put this issue away on Friday and you say voters decide. I’ve -- Chris, I have run in two elections statewide here in New Jersey and I ran in the Republican primary for president and I’m telling you, it's my opinion that there is no one in this country who is today undecided about this race who will make their decision in the next month and a half based upon this issue. They are going to make those decisions based on jobs and the economy, the threats of terrorism around the world and at home. These are the things they are going to make their decisions on, not on this issue.
I know you guys all love it, but it's just not going to be one where undecided voters are going to make their decision in my opinion and my experience based on this.
WALLACE: Governor Christie, we’re going to have to leave it there. Thank you. Thanks for your time today, sir.
CHRISTIE: Chris, always great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
WALLACE: Good. Please come back.
Up next, we’ll bring in our Sunday group to discuss Trump's suggestion that Clinton's Secret Service detail should put away their guns.
Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about Trump's birther comments. Just go to Facebook or Twitter @FoxNewsSunday, and we may use your question on the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.
CLINTON: For five years, he has led the birther movement to delegitimize our first black president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton sharply at odds over who started the birther movement, questioning whether Barack Obama was born in America.
And it's time now for our Sunday group: GOP strategist Karl Rove, Charles Lane from The Washington Post, Lisa Lerer who covers politics for the Associated Press, and Monica Crowley, editor and columnist for The Washington Times.
Well, Karl, as we said at the top of the show, Trump has been doing well as a more disciplined candidate sticking to his teleprompter, talking more policy issues. And then late this week, we got the birther issued opened and closed, then we got the comment about Clinton's security detail should disarm. How do you explain?
KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: Well, he slipped out of the control of his handlers. You’re right, he had three great weeks, closed the gap in Ohio to -- took the lead in Ohio, took the lead in Florida, took the lead in Iowa by 4.3 points in the Real Clear Politics average, close in Nevada, close in North Carolina --
WALLACE: I got it. So what happened?
ROVE: Two hundred forty-four electoral votes, and he just got full of himself and said things he shouldn't have said.
And I want to say this about the birther thing, he says on Wednesday, I don't know. He should have come out and said, "Of course, I’ve already settled that issue." But also, Tim Kaine shouldn't be saying when you ask him the question of, "Is he a racist?", "I don't know".
This -- both of those statements, both the statement by Donald Trump on Wednesday and Tim Kaine's statement today on Sunday are really, really irresponsible.
WALLACE: We ask you for questions for the panel and we got this on Twitter from Ron Powell on sending the birther issue. "What took him, Trump, so long in light of the overwhelming evidence? Also, who did he send to Hawaii to, quote, ‘investigate’? Nobody. He lied."
Monica, how do you answer Ron? And same question I asked Karl, how smart is it for him to stray off really what seemed to be a winning formula, sticking to policy, sticking to his teleprompter?
MONICA CROWLEY, THE WASHINGTON TIMES: Yes, I mean, the newly imposed discipline on Donald Trump was really paying off as we can see in the tightening polls. Donald Trump, a big part of his appeal is that he talks like a guy from Queens because he is a guy from Queens. That kind of raw authenticity got him the Republican nomination for president.
But because he speaks off the cuff and because he speaks colloquially, sometimes that gets him into trouble. His mind moves fast, he takes verbal shortcuts and, again, he gets himself into some political trouble.
I think this is all an overreaction, the gun comments and even the birther stuff, this is an overreaction. But Donald Trump should know by now that Mrs. Clinton, her campaign and their wing men in the press are going to take everything he says that is off-script and twist it to serve their story line that he is somehow a bigot or unfit for the presidency.
That's why everything he says for the next 50 days ought to be weighed and measured extremely carefully. I know that's tough for Donald Trump, but if he wants to stay on course and win the ultimate job, that's what he needs to do.
WALLACE: Lisa, let's take a look at the big picture, because despite these issues, whether we are overreacting or not to them, the big picture is that Trump has significantly tightened this race. We went through the polls before, he has tightened it, he is just barely behind nationwide, he is leading as Karl just mentioned in several key swing states.
How do they explain it at Clinton headquarters in Brooklyn and how worried are they?
LISA LERER, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Well, they said they had a bad week. Her comment that half his supporters were deplorables, it was obviously not good for her. The whole situation with her, video of showing her staggering and possibly following and the pneumonia diagnosis was bad for Secretary Clinton.
But I think folks at the Clinton campaign feel confident in their organization. They think that they have a ground game that he does not, they feel confident -- they are putting a lot of emphasis on the first debate, her schedule for the past couple of weeks and for the coming week has been pretty light in terms of campaign events. She is doing a time debate -- spending time doing debate prep. They see that as a really important moment.
But, certainly, folks in the Democratic Party are awfully nervous. And this is -- and their argument is that this is not a traditional year, and that Donald Trump is not a traditional candidate and perhaps the traditional rules of a ground game don't apply. I think that's what's making a lot of Democrats nervous.
WALLACE: Yes, I want to pick up on that with you, Chuck, but you do hear the Clinton camp this week as the polls tightened, well, we’ve got a better ground game in Ohio and they are talking about surrogates that are going out for them to help with millennials like Al Gore and Bernie Sanders.
That's not a very strong argument for a candidacy seven weeks out.
CHARLES LANE, THE WASHINGTON POST: No, in fact, it only calls attention to what an unorthodox, unpredictable year this turns out to be, because on paper, by all the conventional measures of what is a successful campaign, she has a huge advantage. She's got the organization. She's got the money.
But as we are seeing, she's outspending, say, for example, in Florida -- that was reported just today -- outspending him by millions and millions of dollars on TV, and he's still right there. He's got -- I think he's either tied or got a slight lead in Florida.
So, what they need to reckon with is that all this -- this sort of application of resources that would have bought you success in the past may not work this year, at least in certain swing states like Ohio and Florida where they have usually paid off in the past but where there seems to be sort of a grassroots enthusiasm for Trump that will support itself, so to speak.
WALLACE: Karl, we’ve got less than a minute for this segment. How do you see the race overall at this point?
ROVE: Very close. He’s got a narrative that's driving this, which is he's change. Her narrative is, he’s -- I’m qualified, experienced by temperament and background to do the job and he’s not, which unfortunately paints her as more of the same, more status quo.
But this is going to be a very close election. He now leads in states that have 244 electoral votes and close in two states more that would get him 21, that's 265, getting from 265 to 270 is going to be awful hard to do.
WALLACE: I love the fact that we are talking about those five electoral votes and we are seven weeks out. But that’s what you do.
All right. Panel, we have to take a break here.
When we come back, former Secretary of State Colin Powell's hacked e-mail showing him saying tough things about both Clinton and Trump, who will it hurt more?
Plus, one week before the first debate, what do the two candidates do? And what do you think? What should the game plan be for both sides going into the big face-off? Let me know on Facebook or Twitter @FoxNewsSunday and use #fns.
WALLACE: Coming up, Hillary Clinton faces new criticism of her transparency after her medical scare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: My senior staff knew and information was provided to a number of people.
KAINE: The first time that I talked to Hillary about this was Sunday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We’ll ask our Sunday panel how this will play into the honesty issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: As the world knows, I was a little under the weather recently. The good news is, my pneumonia finally got some Republicans interested in women's health.
TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) problem in doing it. I -- I have it right here. I mean I -- should I do it? I don’t care. Should I do it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Well, both candidates trying to play concerns over how candid they’ve been about their health to their advantage this week. And we’re back now with the panel.
Monica, how do you see -- I'm calling it health record gate -- playing out? Clearly Clinton took some hits for not being forthcoming at the very start about her pneumonia. But when you look at the historical record of what candidates over time -- and McCain turned over a thousand pages of medical history -- neither of these are -- are being very transparent in what they’re releasing.
CROWLEY: Well, the only thing more grueling and stressful than running for president is being president. So voters are perfectly entitled to know how healthy or not their presidential candidates are.
The challenge for Mrs. Clinton is she is known by about 70 percent of American voters to be serially dishonest. And when you have that kind of reputation, voters don't believe you on anything. So there is a huge amount of skepticism as to whether or not we’re getting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about her current health. The concerns are three-fold, Chris. Number one, are we getting everything or is there something more serious wrong with her, and do we have a right to know that? Secondly, all of the statements we’re getting from her doctors are current statements about the status of the pneumonia, the allergies and so on. Voters are concerned about her past, the concussion, the anti-coagulant treatment and so on. I think demanding a full neurological workup and report is not unreasonable given her health. And, finally, people are concerned about the Woodrow Wilson precedent. That if, God forbid, she is elected and incapacitated in some way, would somebody else --
WALLACE: Wow, you’re really -- you really are running with this one.
CROWLEY: Whether it’s the vice president or somebody else, but those concerns are really out there.
WALLACE: But we -- we should point out that Donald Trump is only giving his current health report as well and he’s not going back over his history, even though there’s no (INAUDIBLE) "unbridled (INAUDIBLE) greedy, not transformational, with a husband still (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bimbos at home. (According to NYP)."
Chuck, in terms of its impact on the race to the degree that anybody cares about the e-mails, who takes a bigger hit there?
LANE: Well, it was kind of a tie, I would say, but I think Colin Powell takes a little bit of the hit in the following sense. He reveals himself to be the sort of person who simultaneously calls Hillary a friend in one breath and then unloads on her with that rhetoric in another. And it seemed the main thing he had against her was that she beat him out for a lucrative speaking gig at a university somewhere along the line. This was, in addition to what it showed about his views of the candidates, for a lot of people out there in America was a window on the Washington establishment, how they chat amongst themselves and what really concerns them and it was a picture of a rather petty and gossipy Washington establishment.
WALLACE: Let's turn to what everybody is going to be talking about for the next week, and that is the first debate which starts -- which happens a week from tomorrow.
Lisa, you covered the Clinton campaign. Give us whatever sense you can of how they’re preparing. Do we know -- I know this is a state secret -- who is portraying Donald Trump in the mock debates and what's their strategy and their sense of the (INAUDIBLE)?
LERER: (INAUDIBLE) really tightly held. She is spending a lot of --
WALLACE: Let me ask, why?
LERER: You know, it's a good question. I -- I think they just don't want to give any window into how they're preparing, right, because who’s playing Donald Trump would reflect how they see Donald Trump potentially behaving in these debates and that's really the wild card here. She's doing a lot of preparing and, frankly, Hillary Clinton tends to do well in forums like this where you can prepare, where the situation is controlled. I think it's worth noting that she’s probably more experienced doing presidential debates than just about everyone -- anyone else in the country. She did them in 2008. She did them again in this primary. So this is a forum which they expect that she can do well. The wild card here, of course, is Donald Trump. They -- they simply don't know which Donald Trump is going to show up, the one who’s reading from the Teleprompters and following the advice of his aides, or the one who’s going off message. So I think she's preparing for both possibilities.
WALLACE: Karl, as the one person at this table who’s actually helped someone prepare for a presidential debate and done it several times, what should they be focusing on one week out?
ROVE: Well, actually, two things. One is, what is the impression that the American people have of the candidate, good or bad? And, second, how can they further the better aspects of that in the debate by their performance? These debates don't tend to drive the race in an entirely different direction, at least not unless we have a train wreck. They tend to confirm things that people know about -- about candidates, good or bad. So try and find the good points and emphasize those good points.
WALLACE: And -- and so if you were in the corner, what would you say to Hillary Clinton and what would you say to Donald Trump?
ROVE: I’d say to Hillary Clinton, you've been emphasizing a vision for the future of the country, share with people -- say things in a way that help people walk away saying, I can see her in the Oval Office and she's got a vision. For Donald Trump it is similar. He’s -- he is -- stay away from the ad hoc an impromptu. He’s -- his goal -- her job is to persuade. In a time when you want change, you want me, stability and continuity. For him it is, reassurance that I represent change. You all know that. But in a time in which you’re a little bit concerned about me, I want to -- I want to lay your concerns -- I want to come off as the guy who had that news conference in Mexico City or went to Detroit and met with people at the black church, the guy who reads off of the Teleprompter, not the guy who tells Bob Costa, I don't know, or -- or says on -- on -- on -- in Miami, take away her security details’ guns and let's see what happens.
WALLACE: And -- and what if -- and you've got to assume at some point it’s -- the moderator is going to bring up the things -- the terrible things they’ve said about each other. What's the danger -- I mean should -- to the degree that they go on attack -- they both have said the other one is unfit.
ROVE: Well, look, again, what's your goal? Your goal ought to be, say, look, of course we say tough things, and that's the way the American politics is.
WALLACE: But you don't want to make the contrast at all?
ROVE: No, you want to -- you want to make the contrast by being more about you than about them. You want to spend more time emphasizing what you’re about rather than what they’re about.
WALLACE: Wow, you think -- that sounds like a really quiet debate.
LANE: We nearly -- it will be very -- well, it will be quieter than the ones in the primaries. It will be interesting to see how Donald Trump performs when there’s no audience to sort of egg him on and cheer and roar and --
WALLACE: There’s an audience, but I will tell you, they are strictly told, quiet, don't say anything --
LANE: Be quite.
WALLACE: And leave it to the millions of American voters to -- to watch and decide.
Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday.
Up next, we’ll talk with George Clooney about his effort to end atrocities and corruption in the world's newest nation.
WALLACE: South Sudan is the world's newest nation, but it faces an age old problem, massive corruption. The country's leaders and war lords are battling over South Sudan's wealth, while millions of its people are caught in the crossfire.
George Clooney, and a human rights activist named John Prendergast, are leading an effort to stop it. And this week we talked with them.
CLOONEY: The president and the ousted vice president are engaged in massive corruption that leads to violence and rape and starvation. And that, I think, is a pretty amazing thing to be able to come forward with.
WALLACE (voice-over): Two years ago, Clooney and Prendergast put together an investigative team, trying to unravel how South Sudan's leaders are looting its wealth. To understand what's going on, you need to know the players. The country's president, Salva Kiir.
SALVA KIIR, SOUTH SUDAN PRESIDENT: Some of these ministers have bought apartments. They have bought very beautiful houses, villas. They are hiding it in Kenya.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know this?
KIIR: And they have refused to -- to reveal it.
CLOONEY: Beautiful houses, hidden wealth, he should know. President Kiir's official salary is $60,000 a year. But among the Kiir family getaways is this elegant villa in Lavington, an upscale community in Nairobi, Kenya.
WALLACE: And the deposed vice president, Riek Machar, who Kiir drove from office.
CLOONEY: Yes, Machar is no innocent victim. He’s been playing the same dirty financial game. Machar tried to sell off the country's oil to a Russian arms dealer in return for deadly weapons, while his family lives in different homes outside South Sudan, far from the war zone.
The two of them have spent the last few years stealing money from their own people, using that money to fund militias to kill one another to try to seize power. And with that power be able to procure contracts, military contracts, for instance, oil contracts, that they could then steal more money.
The reality is, every time we looked at it, you -- you know, you’ll say, well, is this just ethnic or is this in some way religious or what is the argument here? And the reality is, it is all about corruption and it's all about money.
WALLACE: They’re stealing lots of money. As much as $4 billion.
CLOONEY: Most of it’s the oil revenue, military contracts, that kind of thing. They're -- they’re stealing it in the same way that -- that you -- we’ve seen it over the years, and in the same way you would see, you know, a lot of African countries that we -- that we’ve seen before, which is, you steal it by saying, OK, well, I'm going to offer you a military contract and you’re going to give me a -- an insane kickback. In some ways you’re -- you’re stealing to hold power and you're holding power to steal. It's a little bit of both.
WALLACE (on camera): And what is it doing to the millions of people in South Sudan?
CLOONEY: It's a fairly rich country in a strange way. They have a lot of oil. They have mineral rights. They have a lot of things that they -- there’s some gold. The people aren't getting any of that money. You know, there’s so much of this money that's going out of the country and not to the people, the people who -- who deserve it.
WALLACE: John, you and George have set up this organization called The Sentry. What is it?
JOHN PRENDERGAST, CO-FOUNDER, THE SENTRY: It’s a private sector attempt to follow the money, to build a team of financial forensic investigators who are burrowing into these systems of corruption that allow, in a number of countries in east and central Africa, which is the deadliest war grown in the world, but allow literally billions of dollars to be off shored through banks into real estate and other kinds of companies and all kinds of things in the international financial system. So we took a step back and said, well, where are their vulnerabilities? The vulnerabilities are in their wallets. This is where they have externalized --
CLOONEY: Yes, you can't shame them, but you can take their money, and that changes everything.
PRENDERGAST: The international institutions that do follow money for national security issues, for terrorism and for nuclear proliferation issues and things like that, they’ve got their hands full right now. The last thing they’re going to be doing probably is chasing assets in eastern central Africa. So we set up our own team of people who do that kind of work, ex-officials from the FBI and Treasury and other kinds of entities and we put dossiers together and hand them over to agencies, law enforcement and regulatory agencies that can actually take action against these assets.
CLOONEY: What we're really talking about is the use of that money and the need to collect that money being -- manifesting itself in incredible amounts of violence, rape, starvation, the -- the tools of atrocities. And you -- and with absolutely no regard for the -- the basic citizenry just for themselves.
WALLACE: You met with President Obama today. What are you asking him and other world leaders to do?
CLOONEY: We’re not going to him and saying, surprise. This is something they deal with, you know, every single day they have a conversation about it.
WALLACE (voice-over): What Clooney wants is for the U.S. and other countries to use the same tools in South Sudan they use against terrorists and rogue regimes, sanctions, freezing the key players out of the international financial system.
WALLACE (on camera): But you say bottom line, war crimes shouldn't pay.
CLOONEY: Right. Yes. Well, that's true. And, you know, our job is to be the advocates, right? Our job is to keep pushing and poking with a stick all of the parties that we feel, that's the U.N., that's the Justice Department, that's the Treasury Department, that's the executive branch, our job is to poke with a stick everybody we can, knowing that it's a -- it’s a long, slow process. But it is -- it is a process we believe we can succeed with.
WALLACE: The last time I talked with the two of you, you were pushing for independence for South Sudan from Sudan. What went wrong?
CLOONEY: This is not a failed state, but it can be. And so our job is to continue to bring the focus. But the promise that was what we thought in 2011 came always with the caveat saying that there’s a -- there’s a possibility for this never to work.
PRENDERGAST: The thing that wasn't addressed, the missing ingredient in the international response once South Sudan did gets its independence was a very serious effort to counter corruption. We’ve never, in Africa, used the Treasury Department's tools and The Patriot Act's tools related to anti-money laundering for issues outside of terrorism in Africa.
WALLACE: This is the part of the interview where I ask, why should our viewers care? Is there some larger geopolitical issue here or is it as simple as, these people need help?
CLOONEY: The reality is that why everyone should care at home is this, a failed state open -- leaves a vacuum. And inside a vacuum we have seen what these influences can be. And those influences can absolutely come home to roost for us as we know, as we've seen. So our -- the reason to do this is because it’s -- we’re not talking about spending a lot of money. In fact, we’re doing most of the money spending right now. We’re raising the money and spending it. We’re just giving this to the -- the, you know, State Department, the Justice Department, to the Treasury and people like that to -- to follow up. What we're saying is, let's stay on this because what we cannot let happen is this to fall apart and in its stead a lot of bad actors can come in and a lot of bad things can happen from that, that can come to our shores.
WALLACE: George, I can't let this interview pass without asking you a little politics.
CLOONEY: I figured you were going to.
WALLACE: You've raised millions of dollars for Hillary Clinton. You have no use for Donald Trump. I want to ask you a bigger question.
WALLACE: What do you make of our politics today?
CLOONEY: Yes, that's a good question. I -- it's -- it’s frustrating. I mean I grew up as a Democrat in Kentucky in the '70s. So, you know, I grew up in a place -- I was a minority, you know, in that world. I didn't move to Hollywood and become a Democrat. But it wasn't as contentious and there wasn't the idea that -- that -- that once one party got power that -- that nothing was going to happen from the other side. That we’re going to just stop things cold.
I worry about that. I think that's dangerous. It's a very funny thing, odd for me to be on the same side of a -- of an issue as -- as Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer and -- and George Will and people like that. Usually we’re not on the same side. I feel as if we need to get away from the divisiveness that we are stuck in right now and the fear that we’re playing off of.
You know, I think it was Murrow that said, we cannot be driven by fear into an age of unreason. If we look deep in our history and remember that we are not the descendants of fearful people. I think that's an important part of us and I think that that's important to remember as we go forward.
CLOONEY: John, George, thank you.
PRENDERGAST: Always nice to see you.
CLOONEY: A pleasure. Always.
CLOONEY: Thanks. Thank you. To you, too.
WALLACE: Up next, our "Power Player of the Week." A look at the Smithsonian's newest museum, filling a huge gap in the story of America.
WALLACE: It’s the hottest ticket in Washington, but this week we got a special sneak preview of the National Museum of African-American History and Culture. The grand opening is next Saturday featuring President Obama, but we got a tour from our "Power Player of the Week."
BUNCH: I am humbled, emotional. In fact, I’m very emotional.
WALLACE (voice-over): Lonnie Bunch is director of the new museum. And when the doors open next weekend, people will be stunned by its historical sweep and emotional power. It takes you back in time to when the first slaves were brought to this country, and then shows how an oppressed people endured and thrived.
WALLACE (on camera): What do you hope people take away from this museum?
BUNCH: The story of the civil rights movement is not a story simply of African-Americans struggling for freedom, it's a story of expanding the notions of freedom for all Americans.
WALLACE (voice-over): There’s a slave cabin from South Carolina, where a dozen blacks were crammed in together. And one of the few relics from the 1921 Tulsa race riot, where whites destroyed what was then the black Wall Street.
BUNCH: A family whose house was burned went back in and the only thing they could recover were four charred pennies, but the family kept those pennies for generations, tells a lot about how important those -- that memory was.
WALLACE: But Bunch hopes the museum gives people a sense of the tension between times of tragedy and triumph. He showed us a segregated railway car from the era of Jim Crow.
BUNCH: In this car you would walk through the front, so you actually see the white community, then you go through a swinging door that says "colored," and then you’d be in the back where the African-Americans would be.
WALLACE: But then he took us upstairs to an exhibit called "Game Changers."
BUNCH: You get someone like Mohammed Ali, and you actually say, here’s an athletic career, and here’s what he meant beyond that.
WALLACE (on camera): I’ve got to stop, Jackie Robinson's jersey, Jackie Robinson’s bat?
BUNCH: To be honest, that’s the best part of my job, is I actually get to hold Jackie Robinson's jersey.
WALLACE (voice-over): We met Bunch back in 2012 when he’d already been leading this daunting project for seven years.
BUNCH: Let's just say that at 8:00 in the morning I have the best job in America, and at 2:00 in the morning it's the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.
WALLACE: Now, it's a reality. The exterior is bronze ironwork, echoing what slaves created in Charleston and New Orleans. In a city of white stone, it makes a statement.
BUNCH: What we wanted to do was not to create something, you know, a black museum, but to basically just hint at the notion that there has been this dark presence that we need to always now consider and understand.
WALLACE: The museum opens as the conversation about race is charred, with talks of Black Lives Matter. Bunch hopes this will be a healing place.
BUNCH: It's not concrete and glass. It's not even the artifacts. It's really the souls of so many people whose stories we’re trying to tell, whose lives weren't considered the stuff of history, but we want to make that happen. If we do this right, America will have a chance to understand itself in newer and fuller and maybe more complex ways.
WALLACE: Tickets are free to the museum, but demand is so high, all passes are gone through October. If you want to see the exhibition and, trust me, you do, tickets from November on are available online through the museum's website.
And that's it for today. Have a great week. And we’ll see you next "Fox News Sunday."
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