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The Five

Did Clinton destroy evidence during email investigation?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 7, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." Did Hillary Clinton and her staff intentionally obstruct justice destroying evidence in the middle of an investigation, and did the FBI know about it and ignore it? Bureau notes reveal an IT staffer deleted Clinton e-mail archives after a Benghazi committee ordered for all e-mails to be preserved. The head of the House Oversight Committee says, "Congress will investigate."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON CHAFFETZ, HOUSE OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I don't think Hillary Clinton gets it. The fact of the matter is they did not look at this and the House of Representatives, also a branch of government, also gets to look into this. Of course we're going to do hearings. We're going to get to the truth of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: A former FBI assistant director takes great issue with how Director James Comey handled the Clinton probe. He thinks Comey gave the secretary a big pass.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES KALLSTROM, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: The FBI director is playing politics. The FBI director does not take the most famous, the best law enforcement agency in the world and politicize it by letting thing out, you know, Labor Day weekend. I mean, I just think that's the worst thing he could do. He should be absolutely ashamed of himself. And this interview, you know, this interview, why wasn't it recorded? Why wasn't there a transcript? Why wasn't she under oath?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Why? And there could be more stunning developments soon on Clinton's e-mails. WikiLeaks is threatening a documents and it could be a September surprise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER OF WIKILEAKS: The first batch is reasonably soon, we're quite confident about it now. We might put out some teasers as I don't want to promise anything because we have to see how the formatting goes, but we might put out some teasers as early as the next week or the week after.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right Dana, so the story not going away. It started out with just casting a whole pal (ph) on the FBI with these documents on fun Friday. You heard the comments there from "The Kelly File" from last night saying this was inappropriate. This is essentially putting shame on the FBI which is, you know, the world's most favorite -- famous investigatory agency. And now we have that follow up with the fact that there may start to be a bit of leaks of documents coming sooner than we anticipated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well I'd like to be on record saying I do not support encouraging Julian Assange to release more American secrets. I think it's the American that we should -- Hillary Clinton should be more transparent. The FBI should not have done this on the weekend. I think that the FBI should release the entire file, just release the entire file because it's going to drip out. And instead of allowing all of this speculation, you would imagine that James Comey, who I think really cares about his integrity and his position and his reputation, probably regrets, I would hope, regrets doing this on a Friday. I'm sure maybe the PR people talked to him into it, they -- oh, it will be fine. It's not fine and this is not going to end for a while, but I do not think that in any way that the Americans should be relying on Julian Assange who released documents that led to the several -- well, of several, but we certainly know that at least, at a least one or two people who were covert operators who ended up with their lives lost because of these types of leaks, so I don't think -- I'm not for encouraging that, but I am for a lot more transparency. I don't see how Hillary Clinton gets away with all of this, especially the 13 different devices. That to me, I just -- after she said, "I used one device for convenience." And we've known that hasn't been true for a while because we knew about the iPad and a couple of other things, but 13 devices and they destroyed with a hammer.

GUILFOYLE: Destruct, yeah.

PERINO: I mean, come on. There's a lot more there. Plus, I think that the chronology is very curious. So she keeps the e-mails for a long time. Then the Department of State asked for some them back, ask for them back. She gives some of them back. Then the stories hit that the server is out there. So then, all of a sudden the e-mails that she returned to state, it's not a complete list. And we find out later that the rest of them were deleted by BleachBit. I don't see how they try to clean that up. I know that the Clinton campaign is going to want everyone to move on. I just don't know how we move on until the FBI releases the entire file.

GUILFOYLE: All right Eric, so there are a lot of problems here with it. There's the destruction of evidence, the 13 devices, the -- let's call it loose relationship with the truth saying one device was used, 13 were used and now, you know, this constant kind of drip of information of e-mails showing a total disregard for the policies, the procedures, and then unfortunately we don't have the transparency because they didn't do a recording of the interview with Hillary Clinton. And from the notes we know that you mentioned yesterday, there was very little pushback across examination to like track down and lockdown the details.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah, what -- if she thought she was ABC in a line of alphabeticals where A and B .

PERINO: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: . that was never asked.

PERINO: Or D.

BOLLING: Or D. Also today, I think Jason Chaffetz, the congressman, said that he believes that she -- they were buying these devices on -- use devices on eBay. That's one another reason why he wants to open the -- reopen the investigation. Used devises on -- BlackBerry's on eBay. I mean this --

GUILFOYLE: You can't get them. I tried it one time.

BOLLING: You can't make this stuff up. I mean it's insane how bad, how poorly this whole thing was managed. And as Dana obviously right, we points that yeah, we keep the -- the harder you push, the more e-mails you find. Now we got the FBI found 13,000 more e-mails that Hillary Clinton said weren't ever there, but apparently they were. But again, that still doesn't -- I guess we'll never find the 33,000 e-mails. And the point being made is, if the only way you can get it is through Assange leak or some of these things that Assange says, literally says, she knew about, C stood for classified or confidential, because she used it several times and he has proof that, you may start to see it. The point is who is Hillary Clinton? You're finding out who Hillary Clinton is, is someone willing to lie to the American people.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Apparently, she's not willing to lie if Assange is being straight- forward, willing to lie to the FBI as well. She has always believed that Clintons have always believed they're above the law and this is tying up exactly who the Clintons are. So before you vote, you want to know who you gonna vote for. And lastly, I just I'll just point out, that if you destroy 33,000 -- destroy them, not keep them, not hold them with your lawyer, not wait until they get subpoenaed, if you destroy them, you're destroying evidence. There's no question about it. If you or I did that, Kimberly --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: If the IRS wanted some details of some transaction we did, we would be going to jail if we said in advance of that investigation.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: I'm sorry, I destroyed the documents.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: But we're too small. When it's bigger and bigger and massive and has global implications as a presidency would, apparently it's OK.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, it sounds, Juan, like she would be a character of on the Sopranos, because they used the bleach, they used a hammer to clean up the crime scene. I mean great lengths by the secretary of state and her staff to avoid turning over evidence that they knew was potentially needed to further an investigation. I mean that's pretty outrageous from a prosecutor's standpoint.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, sure it's interesting to listen because I'm still waiting for there to be evidence of a crime. I mean FBI says there's no evidence of any crime, but you guys are upset about the weekend release, you think that the guy who was working for the server company --

BOLLING: For the real people in the world, Juan .

WILLIAMS: Let me just say --

BOLLING: . destroying evidence in a crime.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say she didn't destroyed it. If she destroyed evidence there would be a charge. There's no such charge. What we see here -- look, I mean -- people .

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . I had politicians say to me, get off my butt, you all you are is a muckraker. There's no muckraking going on here. All you guys are doing is complaining about when this was release, why didn't the FBI be more aggressive with her. You guys are throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks. Nothing is sticking. This is more Benghazi, more e-mail. This is just feeding Hillary's thing that, you know what, these people are insatiable. They just want to bring me down. So what we get is Jason Chaffetz is now is a political arm using Congress as a political arm of the Trump campaign. That's what's going on here.

GUILFOYLE: All right Juan, we see so clearly now that you explained that all. All right Greg, so what, what do you think? This is something is going to be significant that's gonna continue to dawn for -- I don't know.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Even if the law -- it's not just about that laws are broken, it's that in this era of cyberterror, these things actually matter, to have somebody who is so ignorant about technology. I mean she thinks that hammering your BlackBerry destroys information. That's like smashing your clock to freeze time.

WILLIAMS: It worked (ph).

GUTFELD: It doesn't work that way. Thank God she didn't use carrier pigeons.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: She would have strangled them with her bare hands.

PERINO: She would have been in mess.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I know that. And also the idea of releasing bad news before a holiday, yeah, it's not illegal, but it's insulting to the American people and it's obviously an evasive strategy.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: And it doesn't work in any other part of society. A doctor is not going to wait until Christmas Eve to tell you that you have cancer. That is not what you do in real life. And yet in somehow in politics and in media, they think that we're so stupid that if you do it before Labor Day, we'll just magically forget about everything and on Tuesday everything will be different. It may not be illegal, but it's shameless, it's cynical, it's disgusting, it's wrong. What else -- what also is wrong is relying on Julian Assange. Six years ago, conservatives were calling for his head for his arrest for the government to do something about WikiLeaks, and now they're cheering him on because why he's trying to manipulate the election to hurt the democrats. But what if the world -- the shoe were on the other foot? What if Assange actually had Trump's medical records? Or had Trump's tax returns? Do you think that there would be conservative leaders to be cheering him on? I think not.

BOLLING: And I would hope so. I mean I hope it would go both ways.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: It's information that the public should know about candidates they should get it out. James Comey .

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: . says, or released a statement saying defending his timing of the release saying that we don't, quote, "We don't play games," the FBI. Maybe the FBI investigators don't play games, but the timing of the release certainly feels like game playing.

PERINO: It's the PR department, come on. Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Well, this is in a memo to the staff and saying that also that he felt that this wasn't a prosecutable case. So this was just coming in as well.

PERINO: Well, the other thing I was going to add to that in terms of the timing is, I think that it's also very old school thinking. I don't think that waiting to release things on a Friday works anymore, anyway. Mostly because people generally, I think 60 or even up to 70 percent of people get most of their news now from their --

BOLLING: And that the shows on Saturday.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Well --

BOLLING: Right?

GUTFELD: That's where I get my news.

BOLLING: Hello? Hello?

GUTFELD: Just then.

PERINO: But from social media, so they're getting it --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And the reason I think some of Hillary's poll numbers continue to go down is because it's not that people are necessarily watching our show that we appreciate everyone who is watching our show, it's that if you release something on Friday, that doesn't mean that it just goes away and no one ever hears about it. All weekend long people are on their phones .

GUILFOYLE: They travel. Yeah.

PERINO: . and they're checking and it is like -- and it's more of an immediate response as well, and it sticks in your mind. More so, even than television commercials they're finding that's what the research is saying. So, I think that this game of trying to release things on a Friday is over anyway, so retire it as a tactic.

GUTFELD: But then again, they're also playing on the fact that because we have so much information that we will forget no matter what, which is somewhat true. I mean, the tragedies that would affect us for weeks, we move on in 48 hours.

BOLLING: Or something else happens .

GUTFELD: It's something --

BOLLING: . on the weekend.

PERINO: Yeah.

BOLLING: You know, three-day weekends, a lot of things .

WILLIAMS: But you know --

BOLLING: . can happen like a candidate actually being draped in a prayer cloth, which happened this past Saturday in Detroit, if you remember that.

WILLIAMS: Oh.

GUILFOYLE: OK, but --

WILLIAMS: I was going to say that if, if there was something substantive in what had been released Friday, we would have it front and center and we would still be talking about it, because I don't think anybody's dump or not gonna remember what was relieve, if in fact she doesn't mean terrible. Now --

GUTFELD: But those e-mails --

PERINO: Don't you think 13 devices --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I mean suspicious. You can say, I can agree, suspicious are crazy .

GUILFOYLE: Oh, come on. Lying about it?

WILLIAMS: . but it's not illegal. Anyway, what is illegal?

GUTFELD: I mean that's not enough.

WILLIAMS: Right.

GUTFELD: This is not illegal?

BOLLING: That she lied. That she didn't break the law in line?

WILLIAMS: I think that was the great hope that she would get indicted .

GUILFOYLE: But no, but that's not like she -- yeah.

WILLIAMS: . and it would hamstring her campaign.

BOLLING: Or how about that people realize that she's willing .

GUILFOYLE: But it's not what kind of a moral and ethical equivocation.

WILLIAMS: Look, I tell you --

BOLLING: . she's willing to lie.

WILLIAMS: I tell you where the media is falling down. And I think this is going to, you know, calls all of you .

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . somewhat (inaudible) is nobody's talking about Trump actually paying a fine, actually having been found guilty of making a campaign contribution through his foundation that was in violation of the law. Nobody says a word, (inaudible).

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, in fact --

WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton low bar for Trump .

GUILFOYLE: Juan, that --

WILLIAMS: Once again.

GUILFOYLE: Due to the word count that I was keeping on you, we are talking so much that actually was the second topic that we were running at --

WILLIAMS: Well, go right ahead.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you just talked about it. Yeah.

WILLIAMS: I think we should talk about it.

GUILFOYLE: We --

WILLIAMS: I don't understand.

GUILFOYLE: We were talking about it.

WILLIAMS: I don't understand how he gets away --

GUILFOYLE: Bring us the pudding.

WILLIAMS: He gets away with bankrupt casinos. He gets away with, you know not paying contractors with Trump universities being investigate, California, Florida, elsewhere, New York State; and nobody says a word.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he says, "Hey, Hillary Clinton and you can't release your e-mails and I'll release my tax returns."

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh. I'll just -- you know, I just think it's the double standard, but again, I think Hillary Clinton is held to one standard. And you know Trump, if he doesn't trip over his shoelaces, everybody says, wow, you did pretty well.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think so. I think he gets --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And then the media --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I want to lose its $25,000 donation which was paid back and you're talking about the Clinton Foundation that has raised somewhere around $1.5 to $2 billion .

WILLIAMS: Yeah, and so much good.

BOLLING: . and some of it being under .

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: . questionable means and --

WILLIAMS: Look, I -- look, as you know, I think that a lot of the appearances, but Trump actually was found to have acted improperly. Not just there, but in campaign contributions and here in New York City to the city council, to the New York State legislature. This has been going on for decades.

GUTFELD: Juan, I have a solution, have Pam Bondi investigate Hillary.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but beside that .

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: . let's keep in mind poor Pam Bondi, who is a friend of mine, I mean she's not somebody who is one of the state sponsors of terrorism or a country that supports Sharia Law and crimes against gays and women and, I mean it's unbelievable -- anyway. All right, back to Clinton Foundation. Ahead, the war over who would do a better job fighting the war on terror. That's next. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Hillary Clinton took some new shots at Donald Trump yesterday in their escalating feud over who will do a better job protecting America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When it comes to fighting ISIS, he has been all over the map. You would have to literally map it out. He's talked about letting Syria become a free zone for ISIS. Look at the map, Donald.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: He's talked about sending in American ground troops, not on my watch. He's even talked about using nuclear weapons. He says he has a secret plan to defeat ISIS, but the secret is he has no plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Trump, of course, struck back today, will also offering new details on his counter-terror strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: In a Trump administration our actions in the Middle East will be tempered by realism. The current strategy of toppling regimes with no plan for what to do the day after only produces power vacuums that are filled simply by terrorists. Immediately after taking office, I will ask my generals to present to me a plan within 30 days to defeat and destroy ISIS unlike my opponent, my foreign policy who will emphasize diplomacy, not destruction. Hillary Clinton's legacy in Iraq, Libya, Syria, has produced only turmoil and suffering and death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And tonight there's a commander-in-chief forum, Hillary Clinton is going to speak first, Donald Trump after him and -- I'm sorry, for her, excuse me. Here's one thing and I think is interesting, Kimberly .

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: . if I were Donald Trump I would spend the next couple of hours thinking about how he's going to connect these two dots. When he says he's going to ask the military for a plan, give me a plan within 30 days on how you going to defeat ISIS, but then he says, "I'm going to use diplomacy." I think what he should do is say, I would not just use the military, I would try to find out what are all the tools across the federal government from a financial standpoint and also from a State Department standpoint to try to bring that all together because otherwise, I think you might find that she can kind of run rings around him on that issue.

GUILFOYLE: No, I think it's a great advice when you talk about it on the show in terms of trying, kind of a broad based approach, sort of like the octopus to strangle it and suffocate and destroy ISIS, right? So that has multiple arms and options whether you're going to follow the money and cut off supplies, cut off the funding that's coming in from oil sales and what they've been able to get there.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Go after their infrastructure. I mean, ISIS is actually like having officers in charge, printing money, issuing, you know, passports and identification, all of that has to shutdown to be able to eliminate their modes and means and operations of travel, the routes that they use to do their supplies, hospitals that are supporting and taking them in when they're committing these acts of terrorism in addition to use of force on the ground, more assets on the ground to be able to get more real time intelligence, cyber security and hitting them in that way in terms of attacking their means of operation and communications to disrupt. So there are a lot of options there and one thing that I am particularly passionate about is rules of engagement. So -- and then listen, listen to the people. He says he will give them 30-days so the Pentagon to come forward with a precise and comprehensive plan about how to destroy. One of the other things we've been hearing today is, it's not just about ISIS, this whole war of radical Islamic jihad can take on a new name and more if you do not cut it out completely and try to strangle it by all those means necessary - -

PERINO: The other thing that was strange to me, Greg, in that, in her clip is where she says she's taking options off the table.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: She says in that the thing that .

GUILFOYLE: A problem.

PERINO: . ground troops is not an option, so basically it's continuing Obama's way of disarming America, which is basically, I think has hurt our diplomacy efforts as well.

GUTFELD: Well, she said two things are interesting. Regarding ISIS, she says Trump's all over the map. Well, that's because ISIS all over the map.

GUILFOYLE: All over the map.

GUTFELD: How did that happen?

GUILFOYLE: There you go.

GUTFELD: And then she says she won't be sending in ground troops or not on her watch. So, let me get this straight, she is not transparent to the American people, but she's more than transparent to ISIS. She's willing to let them know what we're not going to do.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: That has to stop. You know, I listened to Trump's speech. It was like Michael Moore in spandex, it was packed tight. It had a lot of specific which appeals to me.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: I like hearing all of that stuff. It makes me happy. The question is, does it appeal these days to everyone else, to the people that either independents or young people? Will they watch this forum? And 65 years ago, men and women, they understood the risks and the achievements of war and the shared experiences of combat. And now the shared experiences for so many people are video games and I'm not talking about our military. I'm talking about everybody else that's home that is so distracted and unaffected by the experiences outside our boarders, so that when you talk about national security and you talk about defense and terrorism, it doesn't really affect them. That scares me.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

PERINO: Eric, I was going to say something about the fact that you have the military piece, which I think -- I'm sorry, I just saw that you circled on there, but you know the military support that Donald Trump has been able to garner. And then what she was saying yesterday, which is why I have all these officers, but I actually think that below the officer level, I think that there is a lot of support for Trump.

BOLLING: Is that yesterday the headlines were Donald Trump got 88 officers to sign on board and then like two hours later, she got 95 officers, so they went back and forth. The poll I was talking about the CNN poll from yesterday, they talked among current and former military, Trump has a wide lead. He's up on her by 19 points. Here's important what happened today, though, Trump delivered that speech in Philadelphia.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: He kind of tested out some lines and great points out. It was packed. He talked about NATO. That got a lot of applause. I assume you'll see of that tonight when they do this thing over being trapped. Now the audience being trapped is military people who haven't been as friendly to Trump in the past. So he had to bring some really favorable lines. I'm thinking, I'm guessing a lot of that was tested. So he talked about NATO paying their fair share. Five people are supporting us included, are supporting the vast majority of NATO. Then he added a five-point plan, beefing up the military, navy, air force, marines, army, as well; 540,000 standing army up for 490, currently. That got a lot of applause. But he hit one line, and for me it was like, well, look at that.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

BOLLING: The whole place stood up. He said, you know, towards and he said, "We are one nation under one got saluting one American flag." And he got the whole place to stand up. It was a simple line, but it underscores difference between the patriotism of a republican Donald Trump and the perception of the democrats who have got the military of the past, eight years or so. So I think tonight will be very, very interesting. I think you'll see a lot of the same like you saw in Philly today, tonight at 8 o'clock.

PERINO: Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I was just going to say, you know when I was listening to all the comments, you know, at the table, and Greg said he'd like to hear the specifics and you referenced the five-point plan, it seems like this is a very, you know, tailored message on point that some saw attention to details been put in to it, which been a criticism people so they want some specifics for him. It seems to me that he is listening, perhaps, or at least he will going to actually repeat some of these things, maybe from people like General Flynn or some of the other advisers, Dana, that have been trying to advise him, you know, on foreign policy, on national security or the military, which also may start to factor and affect people's opinion that this is someone that won't just go off fly off the cuff, like you know, Juan thinks that will actually listen and assemble people for best practices.

PERINO: Well, it's not just Juan.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Well, no.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I mean to say, Juan just did that. So thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

WILLIAMS: Because I think it's overwhelming.

GUILFOYLE: It's a point of concern.

WILLIAMS: You know, 61 percent of Americans think Trump has too little to non-existed experience in dealing with foreign policy. So when it comes to foreign policy, Clinton holds a 14 point lead on who would better handle American foreign policy. When it comes to who would better deal with nukes. It's not even close, it's double digits. People say, oh, Clinton not Trump. The real issue for me, Greg --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: And terrorism.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Trump was up by five or six yesterday, but that flips back and forth. But what I was going to say to you Greg was, the spandex thing, I'd loved that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah --

WILLIAMS: But I would love some details, because remember at one point Trump said, "I can't tell you my plan."

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: Because that have been my political opponents might use it or .

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: . then it wouldn't be unpredictable and we should be unpredictable for the bad guys .

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: . right?

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: But he never ever reveals the plan.

BOLLING: Did you see it today?

WILLIAMS: I saw them --

BOLLING: Active armies.

WILLIAMS: You don't know.

BOLLING: Up to 50,000 .

WILLIAMS: No.

BOLLING: . to five corps .

WILLIAMS: Let me just --

BOLLING: . marine put 36 battalions up from 23.

WILLIAMS: You're switching the topic, Eric.

BOLLING: Navy, 350 surface ships versus (inaudible) now.

WILLIAMS: Eric, you're switching the topic.

BOLLING: I will hear --

WILLIAMS: This is about rebuilding the military that he has condemned and damned as incompetent. Which is, I'm amazed that anybody in the military would say, oh, yeah, U.S. military incompetent? Our U.S. military is the greatest on earth. But anyway, you're switching the topic. That's about him saying he wants to put more money into the military, when in fact what we're talking about is how to take on terrorist and ISIS, ISIL, whatever you want to call it. And Trump says, "Oh, yeah. I've got a plan, it will knock them out." Now he's saying, "Oh, yeah, the generals. I'm going to tell my generals to give me a plan in 30 days."

GUTFELD: That was the plan.

WILLIAMS: That was the plan?

GUTFELD: The secret plan was asking the generals for a secret plan .

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, yeah.

GUTFELD: . which was brilliant.

BOLLING: And the scary part?

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: That beats Clinton by six percentage points.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is ridiculous.

PERINO: I really don't think that the military -- whoever wins that the military can't device a plan unless they know what the new president's policy position are going to be.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: Like what are you willing to do? How much would you be willing to allow -- are you gonna willing to change the rules of engagement?

GUILFOYLE: Yup.

PERINO: If we capture a terrorist, can we take them to GITMO? Are we gonna keep that? All of these things, actually a lot of that policy decisions has to be made at the top before the military can deliver a plan. And does it bother anybody, especially on the libertarian side. He's now talking about busting through the sequester caps .

BOLLING: Yeah.

PERINO: . which is the thing that had cut back on the military budget. I'm actually -- I'm for that by to criticize for being for that, but I believe that we should spend more money on the military. But libertarians, like if you're leaning in that direction, you think there's too much waste brought .

GUTFELD: Yeah, they'll --

PERINO: . to be use in the military.

GUTFELD: They'll say if there are, they aren't spending (inaudible). And they're probably right. I mean, we went through that whole era of the expensive toilet seat from, I guess the late '70s. No one remembers that.

PERINO: What do you think on that, on the budget issue?

BOLLING: Well, I think there was -- he had, again, today in Philadelphia he tested it in front of a big group and he got a very big round of applause, because people are ready to have our military beefed up, more money spent on the military.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And you know why?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Remember strength through power .

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Are probably through (inaudible).

GUTFELD: He's through strength.

BOLLING: Strength. Yeah, and that was the Reagan's mantra and philosophy. Spend more, beef up your military and don't get into the fight. I mean, don't get into the fight that Hillary Clinton has voted in favor of, Iraq.

GUTFELD: You never win a war by underestimating.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: That's because we don't have enough resources. The idea is that you have to be able to fight two proposed major areas of conflict. And so say for example, if you had to deal with like Russia and China and in another region, and we have such a commitment to resources already in the Middle East, it's taxing in terms of our --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And most military leaders do think that you could cut the budget.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

PERINO: They're talking about reductions in force.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Most Americans think that --

PERINO: But if you're going to Virginia to give a speech, you say that you're increasing the military.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. But you get automatic applause.

GUILFOYLE: Unless you --

WILLIAMS: But I just want to hammer home a point here which is, you know what, you have to have the support of the American people. That's why putting troops on the ground is not popular right now, republicans or democrats, and yet from Trump it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to risk or wild mouth (ph) will kill their families -- people don't want that. That's not what Americans want.

BOLLING: All right. Let's switch gears here right now.

As the 15th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, a new memorial controversy is growing in New York. A Muslim group is offended by two words in a monument for victims in the town of Owego: "Islamic terrorists."

The Islamic Organization of Southern -- of the Southern Tier thinks it's unfairly pointing all Muslims with a broad brush and wants the word "Islamic" scrubbed. A town supervisor says it's not going to happen.

We'll bring it around, Greg. So here it is. PC going amok. Do we listen to this Islamic group, this group of Muslims who say Islamic terrorism is offensive to them?

GUTFELD: Why did they attack? Why did these terrorists attack the World Trade Center? Was it a political act? No. Was it an act of imperialism to take territory away? No. It was an ideological act; it was an act based on ideas. Where did those ideas come from? Islamism. That's why they did it. they hate the West, and Islamism, the whole goal is to take over the west, take over the world.

And by the way, no longer calling Islamic terror, you know, Islamic terror. It doesn't change anything. You know, melanoma, you can not call it cancer; it's still cancer. So the language, just because you're changing the language, the critics here, you're not changing the truth. We all know you just call attention to it, and you actually harm Islam, because you end up blurring the lines between Islam and Islamism and radical Islam.

WILLIAMS: So the other side of this argument is that they say they would prefer that they put in al Qaeda. They said this was al Qaeda terrorism, but I don't think there's any argument it was Islamic. The argument really is are you, then, encouraging bigotry against Muslims by putting it in there?

GUTFELD: That's always the argument.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's the argument and, you know, I appreciate it. But again, I have to come down on Greg's side: I think the truth is the truth. I don't think you want to do things that are intentionally provocative.

BOLLING: That's the anti-Obama idea, though.

WILLIAMS: What's that?

BOLLING: President Obama would never say, "Islamic terrorism." Would never say, "Islamic terrorism."

WILLIAMS: We are not at war with Islam. We are not. What Greg said...

GUILFOYLE: We are at war with radical Islamic terrorism.

WILLIAMS: ... was -- Greg's point that it was an ideologically-inspired attack on 9/11, and that's a fact.

GUILFOYLE: OK, but the problem is -- OK, so if you listen to Jeh Johnson, the familiar theme which we also have heard, you know, espoused in some of the theories, the rhetoric from President Obama and from his administration, is one, essentially, of victimhood, that we need the federal government to be able to protect you from injustices, from racial targeting, whether it's through the emphasis and use of the arm of the DOJ, et cetera, to the FBI and getting involved at local levels; municipalities and police departments across the country to address and redress some of the injustices that people feel that have happened to them.

And then what he's saying is drawing a parallel to, as well, to Muslim- Americans, which I like the point that he said there, yes, law-abiding American Muslims that have fought and served this country and are against radical Islamic terrorism and terrorists just like we are. That, I think, is a helpful point, but the rest of it is overbroad. I mean, it's not America the punisher.

BOLLING: Dana, the monument didn't say against Islamists. It said Islamic terrorists.

PERINO: I actually think that that is something that people who are peaceful Muslims should be able to differentiate. And I think they should run with it and say, "Yes, that was separate to us."

We're not going to change that monument, OK? That's not going to happen. And imagine, if there was a group of Christians that went to Mecca, and they blew something up, do you think for one second they would not say it was Christian terrorists? Of course they would.

And I think just -- I think naming the enemy, which was Islamic terrorism. We're not saying Muslims or Islam is a bad religion, but that we're at war with them, but that did happen. They shouted "Allahu akbar" as they were doing their terrible deeds that resulted in 3,000 Americans dying.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there.

Next, a taxpayer-funded university undoes the work of the civil rights movement by separating students by their race once again. An important story you'll want to know about, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So if you think time travel is impossible, then you haven't made it to Cal State L.A., where they're now segregating students based on skin color. Amazing.

According to CSLA, the school's under fire for offering separate housing for black students in response to claims of racism. Apparently, this new housing was triggered by insensitive remarks and micro-aggressions made by professors and students. So get this: the solution to racism is segregation. You know who would agree with that? Racists.

Somehow, I don't think this is the unity that we all had in mind.

So as inclusion is now seen as some kind of appeasement, the left view separatism as the answer to their grievance. The natural result of identity politics, where conflict resolution is replaced by polarization.

After America's grand experiment of inclusion, we now return to tribal splintering, retreating to the instinct of surrounding like with like. It indulges the worst urges. It's based on the toxic assumption that empathy cannot exist between different pigments, genders and orientations.

So where do we go from here? As the country splits into factions, be it through separatist movements or infamy, through divisive symbolism or reparations that reward anger over achievement, it only leads in one direction. Down and then apart.

All right, Juan. I go to you for no particular reason.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. I wonder why.

GUTFELD: Yes. Isn't it weird to you that progressives and racists reach similar conclusions: separation?

WILLIAMS: Yes. I'm so disheartened by it. But I must say, it's all over the country, so I see it out in California. You see Davis, Berkeley, University of Connecticut here in the East, but you also have smaller institutions that are adopting it.

And the idea, Greg, is that you know what? Oftentimes the black kids, the Hispanic kids come from a different orientation than the majority white population, because they might come from poor quality high schools or they might be income less, and so they're kind of like not feeling accepted. And so to be around their peers makes it for more support.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: You know, support of learning. I understand all that. I'm sensitive to all that.

But the larger picture just cannot be ignored, which is the picture you drew, which is that you are saying that segregation is a good thing. In my book, segregation is never a good thing, especially in a diverse society.

One last point to quickly make. Which is that if you want to succeed in America, you better know how to deal with all kinds of people.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: Because your boss may be a Puerto Rico woman, as is my case here on "The Five". You never know, right?

GUILFOYLE: I'm your boss mamma.

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm telling you. Well, you never know, that, you know, you might have to sit next to a white guy every day and argue with him. You never know. So you've got to be -- you've got to be comfortable, right? You've got to be, you've got to know -- you can't just say, "Oh, yes, I'm only going to deal with people who are just like me."

I think, in fact, that is condescending. I understand that you want those kids to feel comfortable, you want to give them some added support. You can do it for veterans. You can do it for women, et cetera, but separate housing?

BOLLING: Can I just point out, that's a wonderful looking tie, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Is that a condescending comment?

BOLLING: No, no. Don't be micro-aggressed on that.

There's a difference, though, choice, right? So a lot of people do segregate by choice. Black fraternities in colleges, right?

WILLIAMS: White fraternities.

BOLLING: White fraternities in colleges. Athletes in colleges.

GUTFELD: I can't join a sorority.

BOLLING: Well, you can.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: You can be my little sister.

BOLLING: But choice is the difference here, whereas I assume their segregation is coming mandated segregation.

GUTFELD: It's offered. You don't have to do, but it's there. But it's also -- it's a state-funded school, which is kind of, you know...

PERINO: I -- so I grew up in Denver, and that was one of the cities that was the first to try bussing to integrate the schools. And it was hard. I got up -- I had to get up much earlier than just walking six blocks to school. We had to bus 20 miles in.

I have to say, I think that experience helped me be a lot more empathetic, I believe. So I feel like we've come a long way. Like, don't take us backwards. And maybe there's more work to do. Maybe you've got to put another R.A. in there, but you know, I think...

GUTFELD: Why don't you -- OK, wouldn't the solution be if you believe there's racist attacks in various shapes or forms, why don't you get the evidence and punish and not just say, "Look, everybody separate." Doesn't that make more sense.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. I think this is lazy. This is a lazy approach that is not making people safer, better, stronger, more fulfilled or hearing their voice and their expression of what they've gone through.

Have forums. Have weekly meetings where everybody gathers in, like, the community center in the dorm, et cetera, to talk about their feelings or what they might be thinking. And make it more inclusive and have people assimilate and work together, just like you have to do in real life every day when you walk into different buildings across the country.

That's where the growth opportunity is. That's where people are going to understand each other better like we sit at this table and we all come from different background. And you learn and you listen, and you grow and evolve.

GUTFELD: But sadly college isn't real life. They're trying to divorce you from what you will be facing when you're outside.

PERINO: A four-day vacation from real life.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Four years, excuse me. I mean, I was advanced.

GUTFELD: Of course you were.

GUILFOYLE: Four days.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes. I credit you on that. The chief diversity officer at Clark U. says that they don't want to say, "You guys" anymore. You can't say, "You guys."

PERINO: Can you say, "Y'all"?

GUTFELD: I don't know. You all.

GUILFOYLE: I was on an all-girl floor.

PERINO: I was, too.

GUILFOYLE: There were boys underneath. They find a way.

GUTFELD: All right. Moving on.

It's a stereotype that's been around forever. Women like to shop, and men don't. We will discuss this pressing topic later.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: I've been saying this for years. They need more chairs in stores for vagrant husbands like me who are left standing while their wives are shopping. And this next story proves I'm right.

A new study shows that men spend three weeks of their lives waiting for their wives or girlfriends while the ladies are shopping. I'm sure a lot of men say it feels a lot longer than just three weeks. What do you say?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't know. I mean, it sometimes a little bit creepy if you're in the dressing room, and there's all these guys standing right outside that are allegedly waiting for wives or girlfriends. And you're trying to -- well, that's a little funky.

But I don't know. Do you really want to bring a guy with you to go shopping? I mean, I guess maybe if they're treating you.

WILLIAMS: You mean your husband?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't have a husband right now.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, yes. But let me ask the men about this. Gregory, does your wife insist that you stay in there while she's shopping and trying on things?

GUTFELD: Not at all, but when I go, I always try to make it interesting. I always, like, if I'm trying on clothes, I try to start a conversation with the person in the next dressing room.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: And sometimes I'll make -- you know, say, "This is so hard to get in."

GUILFOYLE: With your foot tapping.

GUTFELD: I'll leave -- sometimes I'll leave messages on the mirror with lipstick.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: Something creepy. I'll also try on really, really small articles of clothing, just to see if the salesperson will tell me it's too small; and then I will accuse them of calling me fat and try to work that into a discount.

I would bring food into the dressing room and just eat a sandwich.

WILLIAMS: So...

GUILFOYLE: And then get a stain on it and ask for a discount.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Statistics say women really care about price and if they get a deal. They spend a lot of their leisure time browsing. Men just want speed. We want to get in and out of the store. Would you agree?

BOLLING: Look, the experience with Adrienne is we'll both on the -- if it's nice out, we're outside doing something active, right? But if it's not nice, she'll like go to the mall, and I'll go. I enjoy the mall on a rainy day or something.

GUILFOYLE: Hot dog on a stick.

BOLLING: And we'll split up for a while.

GUILFOYLE: Lemonade.

BOLLING: And I'll meet you back here in 45 minutes or an hour. And then we'll go around together. But I won't go into the stores. I'll usually stay outside and text or go on Twitter or something and just wait and kill some time. I look at some sports scores or whatever...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BOLLING: ... and let her do her thing. But I'll go. It's actually a pleasant experience.

WILLIAMS: So Dana, does Peter -- according to the stats, the No. 1 complaint is long lines for checkout. Do you just say to Peter, "Stand in line. I'm just going to go and try this on"?

PERINO: Definitely. Here's the thing. He's a great shopper.

WILLIAMS: He's a great shopper.

PERINO: And he's an enabler. Like if you find something and you're like, "Oh, I like this," he'll say, "Oh, you should get two." I have to get them in two colors. He's an enabler.

And I would say it's time well spent, right, because then I'm happy. He's happy. The other thing is this is going to go down, because online shopping...

GUILFOYLE: That's true.

PERINO: ... means that you're not going out to the stores anymore. You're just buying it there, and then they send it to you. You get the free shipping to return if it doesn't fit. And you don't have to go to the stores.

WILLIAMS: They said -- you know, it's interesting. The researchers said woman care a lot that you're able to buy online but then...

PERINO: Return it at the store.

WILLIAMS: ... return it at brick-and-mortar.

PERINO: And you know why the stores like that?

WILLIAMS: Why?

PERINO: Because if you return at the store, you're likely to buy One More Thing before you...

GUTFELD: Hmm. "One More Thing."

GUILFOYLE: I think it's more fun, you know, like with your girlfriends or you do how we shop. I go, "Dana, where did you get those shoes?"

PERINO: Who's got girlfriends? I don't have any girlfriends from college.

GUILFOYLE: And she's like, "Right here on Amazon." And you send me the link and I buy them.

GUTFELD: Shopping online after you have been drinking or taking an Ambien.

PERINO: Bar none. Not the Ambien part.

GUTFELD: No. You ever shop on Ambien?

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: It's amazing.

PERINO: Or maybe I ordered 32 toothpaste one time.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: You ordered what?

PERINO: OK. So we were traveling along, and I wanted the little toothpaste, because at TSA, you have to have it under 3.2 ounces. So I had the wine and I was looking -- or maybe it was Ambien. And I went on, and I went to get 3.2 ounce toothpaste, and I ordered toothpaste. And it arrived, and I had 32 tubes of it.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: ... talking.

WILLIAMS: So let me just tell you that the surprise, after all that we have just talked about, the big surprise is guess what? Men spend more on clothes annually than women these days.

PERINO: I knew it.

WILLIAMS: So men are doing more shopping.

PERINO: I knew it.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, "One More Thing" up next.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Juan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: All right. Time now for "One More Thing." Ms. Perino.

PERINO: All right. It's book day for me. This is Amber Smith's new book. It's called "Danger Close." She is an amazing helicopter pilot. She flew the Kiawa Warrior helicopter, and this is a really amazing story.

So she's friends with Katie Pavlich, and then I meet her later. And we realized she was actually flying the Kiawa Warrior helicopters that were the security for our flights that went into Bagram Air Force Base in December of 2008.

So you never know when you'll have a small world experience. And I'm really honored to have a copy of this book. And Jasper, I think, he took a look at it this morning, too. He took a look. He couldn't get enough of it.

GUILFOYLE: He's got a paw on it.

PERINO: So congratulations to her. She's an accomplished women. And if you are a mom or dad and you want your daughter to read about this amazing epic journey that she had. It's a great book.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. And we thank her for her service.

PERINO: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: Really inspirational. We love it, we love it.

All right. Juan, what do you have for us today?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I'm a romantic.

GUTFELD: You are.

WILLIAMS: I love love songs. Thank you, Gregory.

GUILFOYLE: I like that about you.

WILLIAMS: I love wedding pictures. Well, take a look at this one.

GUILFOYLE: Me, too.

WILLIAMS: It might be the best photo ever taken at Yosemite National Park in California. The photographer, Mike Karas did not know the couple -- you can see them there kissing and hugging. She's in a wedding dress; he's in a tuxedo.

But with a picture this great, he shared the photo on the Internet, asking for help in finding the mystery couple. And finally, the newlyweds have been identified. Congratulations to Catherine Mack and Rick Donald, who came all the way from Australia to California to get married. Hopefully, the marriage will be as beautiful as this picture.

GUTFELD: She left him for Cliff. [

GUILFOYLE: I would be so afraid to be on the edge of that.

All right. Eric, what do you have?

BOLLING: OK. So the iPhone 7 came out today in California. They launched -- take a look. It's beautiful. It looks a lot like the 6. However, they have the upgraded operating system. There's also a second camera option on the plus, the bigger side.

So price point stays the same, 649 bucks for the regular iPhone 7. But here's the interesting part. The ear buds that come with the iPhone...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: The ones that plug in, you need an adapter to plug into your charger. Or, for an additional 159 bucks, that goes away, becomes wireless air pods. I think a lot of people are going to do that. Those things look really cool.

GUTFELD: I would lose those.

PERINO: I'm going to lose those in half a second.

BOLLING: Yes, you know what? I think you eventually get used to having something in your pocket. But don't forget, Apple has become almost a phone company now. Something around 60 percent of their revenue comes from these phones. By the way, jet black. Color, jet black.

GUILFOYLE: Did you get on the wait list, whatever? On the list?

BOLLING: I'm going to get one. I'm ready for one.

GUILFOYLE: OK, can you add my name?

Greg.

GUTFELD: Time for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: "Greg's Disgusting News."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I just want to warn everybody, this is incredibly graphic, horrifying video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FOUR FLUFFY PUPPIES TURNING HEADS TO LISTEN TO MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: This is the first moment that these puppies, these Alaskan malamutes, heard music for the first time in their lives. They had no idea what it was. I know, people are sick to their stomachs watching this right now. It's disgusting, just to see this. But look at this. It's going into their ears. They have no idea what's going on. So they just keep moving their heads.

WILLIAMS: They look like us when Juan talks. We're like, "Huh?"

GUTFELD: That's when we hear the dog whistles.

PERINO: Aww.

GUILFOYLE: How cute, right?

BOLLING: Good girls.

WILLIAMS: What were they really doing?

GUTFELD: They were listening to music.

WILLIAMS: Seriously?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: All right. My turn now. Call them myself.

So this is a photo of a 5-year-old boy bowing his head, and this is really special, I think, especially in light of all the news recently. Outside of his school. It's very touching, and a lot of people love it, because the mother shared the story behind it.

Heather Nelson said her son Royce was running late to kindergarten when she noticed him standing silently in front of the doors. The other children were rushing in to get inside and not be late. Well, he had apparently heard the Pledge of Allegiance starting and stopped in his tracks to recite it outside the stool and then followed up with a prayer. She said, "I'm very proud of him to represent the two most amazing things: God and our country."

Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it.

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